View Full Version : Local Outfitters vs. the big "three letter" chain
What do you guys think:
Where could you get the best advice, price, and service?
If you know of any outfitters in VA/MD let me know! :sun
Thanks,
Brendan
IMHO I'd go with a local outfitter, and support local business. You can usually get great hands on help at a LO. :)
Frolicking Dinosaurs
11-25-2007, 18:55
While I generally support my local outfitters, REI has excellent customer service and one of the most liberal return policies in the business.
While I generally support my local outfitters, REI has excellent customer service and one of the most liberal return policies in the business.
Oh, I thought he was talking about the other 3 letter outfitter - EMS. Ugh!
wrongway_08
11-25-2007, 19:01
Yea, there is not a lot out here (Westminster MD) I mainly go to REI, they are great service.
We have a Hudson trail outfitter by us but they suck, high price and junk items for sale. Also the sales people I have met there have no clue as to anything outdoors.
turtle fast
11-25-2007, 19:13
Campmor has always been good to me. The prices are good and the delivery has always been fast. They always have specials going on on discontinued gear. They send out a calalogue once a quarter or so if you are not ordering online.
Campmor rocks, but Bredler was looking for a local outfitter in VA/MD.
chknfngrs
11-25-2007, 19:22
Casual Adventurer in Arlington, VA has good stuff. Earth Treks in Timonium, MD. Never been but met the owner.
Other than that, not much in the "local" department.
IMHO, REI is your best option in metro DC.
What I do like about the big stores, is that they have lots of room to set up a tent, I like getting inside a tent in a store before buying one. :)
Casual Adventurer in Arlington, VA has good stuff. Earth Treks in Timonium, MD. Never been but met the owner.
Other than that, not much in the "local" department.
IMHO, REI is your best option in metro DC.
Thanks, Arlington's real close to me.
Jack Tarlin
11-25-2007, 19:40
I'd always try and go with a small privately owned store. You tend to get employees that have been around awhile and know the stock better, plus they seem to be willing to spend more time with you on such things as extended boot or pack fittings.
If you're in Northern Virginia, I'd try to get out to Harpers Ferry and talk to Laura Wright at the Outfitters there. She's been helping people plan thru-hikes for more than 10 years and really knows her stuff.
Thanks for the tip about harpers ferry. I'm not planning a through hike just yet...
saimyoji
11-25-2007, 19:52
I'd always try and go with a small privately owned store. You tend to get employees that have been around awhile and know the stock better, plus they seem to be willing to spend more time with you on such things as extended boot or pack fittings.
If you're in Northern Virginia, I'd try to get out to Harpers Ferry and talk to Laura Wright at the Outfitters there. She's been helping people plan thru-hikes for more than 10 years and really knows her stuff.
LLBean sucks for this. Even on slow days the Bean employees rarely know the details on gear. They are happy to help, just can't give specs w/o taking 20 min to check it out.
PS I LOVE LL Bean.
I totally agree about going with small outfitters. We have 2 great ones here that I have spent a lot of $ with. On the other hand, out of all the 'big' guys-REI, Campmor, Sierra trading post, Northern Mtn Supply, campsaver.com, etc-I have found REI, IMO, to be better supplied and have an all around low price. Of course if you shop around you might find something for a little less, but if you need multiple things I'd go REI. They, too, have a great return policy. If you are a member with them, you get dividend checks, to spend in the store, that come in handy getting new equipment.:)
Appalachian Tater
11-25-2007, 19:58
The local outfitters are best if you get the owner or another employee who knows what they're doing. I have had less than satisfactory service and advice at a couple of great outfitters on the trail because of the particular employee who helped me. It's worth asking for the owner if you feel like the employee either doesn't know what they're talking about or is otherwise unhelpful, for instance, trying to convince you to buy something even if you repeatedly say you don't want it.
And just because someone has hiked a lot doesn't necessarily make them an expert. If they give an opinion they need to be able to back it up with facts, and no B.S. regarding the merchandise. The worst is someone working at an outfitter who won't admit they don't know the answer to your question and totally wings it.
I have not had very good luck finding good advice in the big outfitters, but it must be possible. Once I went in a Home Depot and no one knew anything about their departments or the merchandise; across the street at Lowe's the employees were knowledgeable and helpful.
I've worked off and on at an REI for 6 1/2 years, but I still mix up where I shop. Big chains like REI can't hope to carry a lot of newer lightweight companies simply because when REI buys, they buy to fill 80+ stores and a very robust online market as well. Niche companies, like ULA or Shire's Tarptent couldn't hope to provide the sheer numbers involved.
You can often get better prices at sales from local outfitters than REI. It's worth shopping around. If you have to pay full-price, it's nice knowing you'll get a dividend from REI, and the return policy is a HUGE incentive to shop there. REI scratch and dent sales are also a great chance to score on phenomenal prices or used gear.
As for service, I've found it really can be a crap shoot at any outfitter, though Jack is right that if you get the owner of a local outfitter, you're usually going to get solid advice. I've gotten really weak advice from folks on the sales floor at small outfitters, but I KNOW we've gotten folks assigned to camping at my store who only know as much about backpacking as I was able to teach them in the 8 hours I got to train them. It amazes me how many new hires my store gets who don't do much of anything outdoors beyond an occasional day hike. We have a number who "climb" in a climbing gym.
But we DO have our ringers, including 4 AT thru-hikers, 2 NOLS graduates, and folks with MANY years of backpacking experience. So again, it's a mixed bag. If you're unsure, ask about the gear the employee has experience with. If it seems VERY limited, you know to look either elsewhere of for someone else. Good luck, and whatever gear you get, get out there and have fun with it!
Spirit Walker
11-25-2007, 20:29
We do a lot of shopping at REI for ordinary gear (clothes, headlamps, books). Hudson Trail has more packs than REI and some that were quite lightweight, giving us a chance to try them on. Even so, we ended up buying our last packs and tent from online dealers (ULA and Henry Shires). Used to be that Appalachian Outfitters was the best place for sleeping bags - but they went out of business. We've bought our shoes at REI the last few times. Their customer service is good and they have a lot of knowledgeable employees.
peakbagger
11-25-2007, 20:39
I try to support the local outfitter in my town as we are a "trailtown" (gorham NH) therefore he tends to get information directly from thru hikers on what works and what doesnt work (a lot of info on what doesnt work). Over my years of section hiking, he gave me lots of good tips on new equipment and accessories that the thru hikers were asking for each year.
He tends to know the prices of the major firms and makes sure that his prices are in line. Where he sometimes cant compete is on end of the season close outs when the big firms keep marking it down until it sells.
LLBean sucks for this. Even on slow days the Bean employees rarely know the details on gear. They are happy to help, just can't give specs w/o taking 20 min to check it out.
PS I LOVE LL Bean.
Double, triple agree. Nice, helpful, but they are used to shoveling it out the door into a SUV.
Sometimes it is only 15 minutes.
Dakota Dan
11-25-2007, 21:19
Most outfitters pay minimum wages and thats usually the kind of help you get.....Minimum.
Unless you know a store owner or manager personally don't expect quality help.
I shop where I get the best deal, unless the item is high price and a return is possible, then it's REI. Plus a 10% dividend at years end on non-sale items.
Campmor, EBay, Military Surplus, Discount Stores(Wal-Mart, etc) are all options for getting stuff.
Sam's club for large quantities of soup mixes, mac-n-cheese, gorp, power bars, and the all important Phone Card.
As far as learning the ropes to backpacking you can get everything you need on the WWW. Or, you can attend various free hiking clinics offered at various outings, such as Trail Days, REI has some, etc.
Or, just do like a lot of us has and hit the trail and learn the hard way. I'd do this in several "close to home" trips.
Oh, I also forgot, because it doesn't specifically deal with brick-and-mortar outfitters, but Campmor and Sierra Trading Post's catalog and online sites offer fantastic sale prices if you pay attention and grab them when they first appear.
Appalachian Tater
11-25-2007, 21:40
Oh, I also forgot, because it doesn't specifically deal with brick-and-mortar outfitters, but Campmor and Sierra Trading Post's catalog and online sites offer fantastic sale prices if you pay attention and grab them when they first appear.
Especially if you are XXS, XXXL, or female and like strange colors.
Dakota Dan
11-25-2007, 21:47
Especially if you are XXS, XXXL, or female and like strange colors.
or if you wear a mens shoe size 7 or smaller
or 14 or larger.
or if you like Men's clothing in the only color left....Pink.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
11-25-2007, 21:53
or if you like Men's clothing in the only color left....Pink.::: Dino eyes light up and she runs off to Campmor and Sierra Trading Post :::
Especially if you are XXS, XXXL, or female and like strange colors.
HA! Like I said, you have to get there early.
Actually, I got my first Goretex jacket from Campmor in 1995 - in "plum". It was a great jacket at a greater price, but for some reason, I started taking lots of pics in black & white for a while :D.
It's pretty rare that I get a salesperson that I like. I'm sure its mutual. I would rather just look for myself. I'm not an expert, but neither is most of the advice, nor most of the stuff being carried any good. I'm usually just looking, not for anything in particular, but for something out of the ordinary, like a pair of cheap light nylon wind pants that finally made it past the marketing police.
As I think over my gear, I have a hodge podge from everywhere:
Sierra Trading Post, Campmor, the local Army/Navy store, Target/Wally World, REI, the GoLite warehouse sales, EMS, Six Moon Designs, Neptune Mountaineering (a world famous local place), the thrift store and so on....
I tend to buy most of my everyday items from two places:
Campmor and the local Army/Navy store.
The Army/Navy store is where I get my wool liner gloves, long undwear, hats and gloves/mittens for considerably less than the REI/EMS type stores. I can't see spending $50 for long underwear!
Campmor is my "Go to" place for well, just about anything esp. if I order in quantity.
Where I live, we are blessed with more outdoor stores than most states have in their entirety. At this point in my backpacking "career", I've graviated towards niche items that the REIs frankly don't have. As I said, most of my purchases are for basics that wear out and need replacement.
Now, for winter activities, I go to Neptune's. The people who work their know their stuff esp for backcountry skiing. I've heard complaints that the staff can be snooty, but I've never experienced that aspect. (Of course, I usually show up with salt encrusted clothing and gear and mud splattered legs (like today!), so that may help. ;) )
I guess, just as their is no "best" gear, their is no "best" gear store. Every store is different and has their plusses and minuses. I would not want to buy a sleeping bag at the surplus store..but I would not buy long underwear that costs 4x as much at REI. Choose the appropriate store for the appropriate gear, clothing and advice.
Nearly Normal
11-26-2007, 03:23
Check out gear and buy it online for the most compeditive price. It's nice to buy local if you have a local. Most don't.
I wanted a gravity feed water filter for base camping and found it the cheapest at Amazon. They also use outfitters to augment supply or even sell you used gear.
I bought a Montbell cook pot through them and it came from the outfitter in Damascus.
Nearly Normal
It is a crap shoot. I buy online out of neccesity 80% of the time, and the other 10% of the time becuase there is no other choice and it is less hassle. When I've been able to go into "real" stores in the US I have been disappointed in the staff. In Europe it was slightly better, as the owner(s) of the stores were usually the people you spoke to and they had a serious addiction to the sport they catered to.
Bicycle shops are similar; out of eight(?) in Lousiville there is only one who I'll do business with, cause I don't feel the need to explain to some kid why I want what I asked for and not what they have on hand.
NICKTHEGREEK
11-26-2007, 08:01
I like Hudson Trail Outfitters (HTO) at Fairfax Circle even though it's a 3 letter mini chain. Generally you can find one or two fairly knowledgable sales folk there. Be warned it turns into a clothing store during the Christmas season. Show up in mid January and get the latest stuff for 40% off. Casual Adventure in Arlington is a good hit also. It's the closest you'll get to the old fasioned stores like Appalachian Outfitters of Oakton who folded maybe 5 yrs ago.
Yea, there is not a lot out here (Westminster MD) I mainly go to REI, they are great service.
We have a Hudson trail outfitter by us but they suck, high price and junk items for sale. Also the sales people I have met there have no clue as to anything outdoors.
I'm curious about the Trail House in Frederick, MD - never had to stop there myself yet, but a couple of their thru-hiker alumnae own a very good small outfitter in Wellsboro, PA, Wild Asaph Outfitters.
... a couple of their thru-hiker alumnae own a very good small outfitter in Wellsboro, PA, Wild Asaph Outfitters.
http://www.wildasaphoutfitters.com/
dessertrat
11-26-2007, 10:08
Ditto on Campmor for being fast and always reasonably priced. Maybe that's just because they ship from NJ and I'm in Maryland, but I get things pretty much overnight with standard shipping.
Footslogger
11-26-2007, 10:19
What do you guys think:
Where could you get the best advice, price, and service?
If you know of any outfitters in VA/MD let me know! :sun
Thanks,
Brendan
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Probably a lot more about the people working there than the establishment itself.
'Slogger
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Probably a lot more about the people working there than the establishment itself.
'Slogger
That's true. Without the people, they would all be like online stores without human interaction. But insofar as the question of picking one or the other is concerned, you could still answer it using the staff as a factor.
Footslogger
11-26-2007, 11:47
That's true. Without the people, they would all be like online stores without human interaction. But insofar as the question of picking one or the other is concerned, you could still answer it using the staff as a factor.
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One of the main reasons I said that was I used to work for the 3 letter one. Over the 5 years I was there I may have met 5 - 6 people who really knew what they were talking about and were more interested in getting people into the RIGHT gear than they were just selling stuff.
'Slogger
I shop at both, I like to support local busnesses, but I have also been fitted wrong for a pack at my local outfitter and they would not take it back after it had been used. REI has the best customer service and even though their regualr prices are not that great, they have pretty good sales.
True, minimum wage salaries breed mis-informed, ill-experienced workers at outfitters. I recommend to anyone shopping at a local outfitter (or a chain) to seek out the most experienced person rather than trying to deal with someone who clearly knows less than you do. I can tell you from experience that folks often came in looking for me and asking by name because they knew I was the authority on long distance hiking, long trails, lightweight gear, etc. On the flip side I was happy to refer them to someone more knowledgeable when it came to things like ice climbing, mountaineering and rock climbing.
It's your money and time. Don't get short changed.
=====================================
One of the main reasons I said that was I used to work for the 3 letter one. Over the 5 years I was there I may have met 5 - 6 people who really knew what they were talking about and were more interested in getting people into the RIGHT gear than they were just selling stuff.
'Slogger
I dig that.
I will shop local outfitters, but when I do buy from REI (twice in the last two weeks) a thing I like is that they ship the items quickly. I ordered on Friday evening and using standard USPS shipping the items were at my small town Vermont PO Box on monday morning.
What do you guys think:
Where could you get the best advice, price, and service?
If you know of any outfitters in VA/MD let me know! :sun
Thanks,
Brendan
Young man I would go with my gut feeling. Out here in the wilderness we just go with our gut feeling.
I was just introduced to this site today via an unknown email.
I like it here.
Wonder if there is anyone as old as dirt like me here on this site? I doubt it, most old geezers I know say "You will never see me on one of them contraptions!"
My response is usually, "I never quit learning....."
So go with your gut young one.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
11-26-2007, 19:40
Wonder if there is anyone as old as dirt like me here on this site? I doubt it, most old geezers I know say "You will never see me on one of them contraptions!"There are other geezers here - you will fit right in. My oldest hiking buddy is 91 yo -- alas, he winters in FL these days.
Thanks for the advice...snot rag (do you have a name so that in the future I don't have to call you "snot" "rag" or any combination thereof?
Dino, did you do a customer review of some item on the REI site or Campmor site? I recall reading a one where the heading for one field went something like this:
Describe Yourself: Adventurer, Dinosaur
...:-?
Frolicking Dinosaurs
11-26-2007, 22:34
Wasn't me doing the review - must have been a cousin :D
i work at hudson trail outfitters. and yes, we are WAY underpaid. and yes, collectively, "outfitters" at my store are full of BS- 9 of 10 of us don't know jack ***** beyond what company reps tell them or what can be easily found with a few minutes of homework online (including the managers! they're full of BS, too). its kids working for no pay but huge discounts. no commission, but some incentives to push crap on customers. it's a REALLY poorly run company (a damn mess from the top-down)
my store has only a few good folks (three- including myself) that have ever actually done extended trekking or basic mountaineering.
that said, there are a few knowledgeable guys at small, local outfitters from the places i've been (especially destination towns like harper's ferry and north conway, nh).
hit me with an email if you want to checkout HTO. i've been told i'm a terrible salesman- i'm always sending people to campmor or backcountry.com- which has a great amount of gear (especially winter) and a pretty knowledgeable staff that is availible for online chat 24/7 i believe.
that said, i still would avoid HTO as its a total crapshoot and odds are against you. in the end, HTO is a glorified everyday-outerwear shop that puts on the fascade of a "wilderness outfitter" BULL****. pardon my language.
Good to see REI is moving more quickly now!
Of course, they just opened their east coast distribution center in Bedford, PA, so they should move quicker since not everything has to come from Washington state anymore.
Look for more neighborhood REI's near all of us, at least in neighborhoods that have over 100,000 above average income residents. http://www.rei.com/aboutrei/realestate.jsp
I'd call that a good thing as I've always had much better luck with REI than the other three letter chain. Harrisburg "west shore" where I work lost its local outfitter this summer. So bring it on, I say!
Also, before breaking ground on the aforementioned distribution center, REI donated $15,000 to the Mid State Trail Association, which is about three times that group's typical annual expenditure. That was a nice touch. :)
Thanks for the advice...snot rag (do you have a name so that in the future I don't have to call you "snot" "rag" or any combination thereof?
...:-?
No sir I will not give my real name here. I will say this much, I am good friends with a member here and I am using his computer right now. I will be flying home to Jackson Hole this morning. So I will be offline for a day or two.
My "trail name" here fits me just fine. I have developed a cold here lately. It sure is a lot more humid here in the south than it is where I am from. We only have an average of 6% humidity.
Critterman
11-27-2007, 11:25
I like Hudson Trail Outfitters (HTO) at Fairfax Circle even though it's a 3 letter mini chain. Generally you can find one or two fairly knowledgable sales folk there. Be warned it turns into a clothing store during the Christmas season. Show up in mid January and get the latest stuff for 40% off. Casual Adventure in Arlington is a good hit also. It's the closest you'll get to the old fasioned stores like Appalachian Outfitters of Oakton who folded maybe 5 yrs ago.
I like that HTO also but since REI opened up in Fairlakes I have noticed they are becoming alittle more clothing and alittle less hardcore backpacking. I buy what I can from them because I would hate to see them go under like Applachain Outfitters.
No sir I will not give my real name here.
okay, that's cool.
faarside
11-27-2007, 16:34
Although not in MD/VA, I have purchased most of my equipment over the years from Campmor, both online (campmor.com), and directly from their retail store located in Paramus, NJ. There were times when I needed emergency item replacement while on a trail, and they came through for me in the pinch. I highly recommend them.
envirodiver
11-27-2007, 18:36
I also work off and on at the local REI store. Bearpaw is correct that a few people there don't know as much as it would be nice for them to know, but most are very good resources for information. And vs. on-line shopping (which I also do), in the store you can put your hands on stuff, weigh it, set the tent up, crawl in the tent or sleeping bag, lie on the pad, try the pants on. That all is very nice. The sale prices are good.
One of the best things about REI though IMHO is the 100% satisfaction guarantee return policy. That is not just lip service.
wrongway_08
11-27-2007, 18:48
The REI by Towson has a lady that Thru-hiked in 2006. A lot of the crew there has done hiking and know what they are talking about.
Just wish I had one closer to me, Sunnys is the only thing around me, they sell crap - you can always tell a crapy outdoor store when they sell 350 piece screw assortments, 2 lb pots, wal-mart style clothes !!!!
Nightwalker
11-27-2007, 23:57
Sunrift Adventures in Travelers Rest, SC. They are all backpackers, climbers and kayakers and they really get it.
Plus, I get a 10% discount. Just one more good reason. :)
Dakota Dan
11-28-2007, 00:11
Sunrift Adventures in Travelers Rest, SC. They are all backpackers, climbers and kayakers and they really get it.
Plus, I get a 10% discount. Just one more good reason. :)
I had forgotten about this place untill now. It's great there still hanging in there. Stopped in there in the 80's to pick up some Topo Maps and some other odds and ends. I believe the Ranger at Ceasars head said they were the closest. I remember being impressed with the knowledge of the guy helping us with the maps, after all, not many people know a lot about topo's. Do they have a website?
Nightwalker
11-28-2007, 00:31
I had forgotten about this place untill now. It's great there still hanging in there. Stopped in there in the 80's to pick up some Topo Maps and some other odds and ends. I believe the Ranger at Ceasars head said they were the closest. I remember being impressed with the knowledge of the guy helping us with the maps, after all, not many people know a lot about topo's. Do they have a website?
http://www.sunrift.com/
Dakota Dan
11-28-2007, 01:19
Thanks NW, I guess I missed their "After TksGvng Sale". Didn't see a signup for sales, etc either.