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kayak karl
12-02-2007, 00:52
in 2008 i want to hike. north or south. what are the + & - to each. i live in the middle. not a travel issue. i know start times my be different. any advice would be great.:)

EWS
12-02-2007, 01:00
Can start NOBO any time, SOBO after June 1st when Baxter park opens; the rest is a bunch of gobblygook.

kayak karl
12-02-2007, 01:03
T.Y. I didn't know the time difference was that great!

JAK
12-02-2007, 01:36
I am naturally inclined to hike SOBO because I live in the North and like to hike in the direction of the less familiar and downright unknown. I am definitely not inclined to wait until June 1st though. If I ever did a thru I think I would like to start in the North somewhere on the IAT, perhaps Mt.Carleton in New Brunswick, in order to cover Baxter State Park June 1st or after. 200 miles maybe? I think for myself at this stage in my life I should think about doing sections, starting with just a two week section fairly close to home, with perhaps just one resupply. I would also like to do 40 days someday soon, and just resupply as I go. I wonder where that might take me?

rafe
12-02-2007, 01:45
Starting nobo in spring you'll have company... maybe more than you want. Shelters, campsites and hostels will be crowded. Start sobo from Maine and you'll have a lot more solitude. The downside is that you won't finish until late fall or early winter. If you go sobo, you need to have your act together from the get-go, 'cuz you'll be going thru the 100-mile wilderness right off the bat. You'll deal with some of the toughest (and most beautiful) terrain very early in the hike instead of at the end.

Nobos are starting ever-earlier; it used to peak around mid-March/early April, but February and early-March starts are now common. The start date for SOBOs is limited by black flies, high water, late-melting snow, etc. June 1 is common. If you don't mind winter hiking/camping (at the end of your trip) then you can start later...

Tennessee Viking
12-02-2007, 02:14
in 2008 i want to hike. north or south. what are the + & - to each. i live in the middle. not a travel issue. i know start times my be different. any advice would be great.:)This is what the ATC summaries as what to expect for going North or South.

A typical northbounder, starting in March or April and finishing in September, can expect:

Starting among crowds of other thru-hikers—thirty or more a day.
Cold weather to start, with some snow or ice, but occasional warmer weather in Georgia.
Snow, sometimes deep, at high elevations throughout North Carolina and Tennessee.
Bare trees and winter conditions at high elevations for the first month or two. Cold-weather gear is usually advised until you have hiked beyond the Mt. Rogers high country in southwest Virginia.
Hot, humid weather though the mid-Atlantic states.
Favorable temperatures through most of southern New England.
Periods of cold weather in New Hampshire and Maine in September and October.
A dramatic ending: Katahdin.A typical southbounder, starting in June or July and finishing in December, can expect:

A small number of other southbound thru-hikers for companionship.
Starting with Katahdin, the most difficult climb on the entire A.T., and the two most challenging states of the entire Trail—Maine and New Hampshire.
Swarms of black flies in Maine in June.
Muddy trail and difficult stream crossings in Maine in June.
Four weeks of hot, humid weather in the mid-Atlantic states.
Fall colors in Virginia.
Hiking through hunting season (http://www.appalachiantrail.org/hunting) from late October onward.
Cold weather during last month or two of hike, snow likely.

Lone Wolf
12-02-2007, 09:20
in 2008 i want to hike. north or south. what are the + & - to each. i live in the middle. not a travel issue. i know start times my be different. any advice would be great.:)

SOBO is best all around. yup.

mudhead
12-02-2007, 09:35
You have said this before.

Why?

ARambler
12-02-2007, 12:20
SOBO is best all around. yup.

Only 20 % of thru hikers go SOBO, and way over half of them have clear reasons for going SOBO. So, if you are asking this question, you would be fighting 25:1 odds if you find LW's logic compelling.

Some of the reasons for going SOBO:
1) Later start: ca. June vs ca. March. (Not a big factor for you.)

2) Longer hiking window not a factor: It's hard to define and compare "the Season" but there is a thermal lag that makes for the nobo summer about a month longer. I'd say 3/1 to 10/15 is comparable to 6/1 to 12/15. Note, 6.5 months is a lot longer than most people need. However, the "prime season" is shorter than 6.5 months. (maybe 7/4 to 11/11).

3) Fewer people southbound: I don't really get this reason. If you leave 3/1 or 4/15, you may only see half of your fellow nobos. However, sobo's will see all the nobos. Also, if fewer people is important, why not hike the PCT? Because you are hiking through the nobo pack, and because they are spread out there are fewer nights with full shelters.

4) Hiking toward (or away from) home. I saw a lot of nobos hiking home to ME and sobo's hiking home to GA. While it's nice to summit with friends and family, I would prefer the support from home early in the hike.

5) Have a cure for cabin fever: It takes a big emotional commitment to hike the trail. That makes most people want to start as early in the season as possible. However, hiking early doesn't necessarily make the hike any better. This year I hiked about 10% of the trail in GA and VA before doing a sobo.

6) Other, There are a number of intangibles that I found good for sobo: I was in better shape when I started sobo. I liked hiking with the fall foliage. It seems easier at the end, because the trail is so good in the south. NOBO, it is harder to do 20's on the easy trail unless you stay in good shape over the winter. Statistically, sobo's are faster and to me seemed a little easier. Of course, this may be because sobo's start out in better shape. It seemed a little cooler going sobo. (I started late and moving quickly enough to avoid all snow/ice.) I had previously hiked nobo, so, sobo was a good way to get some variety.

Rambler

map man
12-02-2007, 12:44
Hey, ARambler, since you have now thru-hiked both NOBO and SOBO (if I'm reading your post correctly), you are in a great position to weigh in on NOBO vs. SOBO. What dates did you begin and end your SOBO this year? How many days toward the end in the south did you have overnight lows below freezing, would you guess? Since you had done some bits in the south this year before you started at Katahdin, did you skip over those parts later in the year? It sounds like you started at Katahdin after June -- how did you find the black fly and skeeter situation in Maine, then, when you started? And congrats on the thru-hike.

rickb
12-02-2007, 12:46
I think SOBOs might gain confidence in their ability to hike the entire AT on ther own terms more quickly.

My guess is that there is less sniveling going SOBO, also.

4eyedbuzzard
12-02-2007, 13:17
in 2008 i want to hike. north or south. what are the + & - to each. i live in the middle. not a travel issue. i know start times my be different. any advice would be great.:)

Have or will you consider an alternate itinerary like a flip-flop, leapfrog, or others? Basically break the trail into two or three long section hikes and complete them in the same year - or not! A lot of thru-hikers don't finish the trail anyway and come back to complete it in following years. Some would have problems with the psychological factor of such hikes not being contiguous one direction hikes - some wouldn't. And some would criticize them as not being "true" thru-hikes. HYOH. In many ways though, they make a lot of sense, especially for avoiding crowds and beating weather extremes on the trail.

As a side note, there was a recent thread on hikers using the BMT as an alternate AT route due to overcrowding and to minimize trail impact in the Smokies. With so many hikers converging at the southern end of the trail in early spring, alternative itineraries start making a lot of sense.

http://www.appalachiantrail.org/site/c.jkLXJ8MQKtH/b.848729/k.6FA1/Alternative_Itineraries.htm

kayak karl
12-02-2007, 13:37
BMT??? What is this?

dessertrat
12-02-2007, 13:44
T.Y. I didn't know the time difference was that great!

It's not just BSP opening, it's also that you might not be able to ford some of the streams in Maine that time of year. Or you might-- it all depends on the snowmelt that year, etc.

Also, most people say that if you start SOBO, you are in for more shock to your system right out of the gate, in that the mountains of Maine and New Hampshire are very difficult, and there are fewer people around that time of year to rely upon for advice or help if something isn't going well.

4eyedbuzzard
12-02-2007, 13:48
Benton MacKaye Trail, sorry, shouldn't use an acronym without spelling it out the first time, my bad.

http://www.bmta.org/

Here's a couple previous threads on the BMT as an AT alternate plan.
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=15651&highlight
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=28950&highlight

kayak karl
12-02-2007, 14:01
The idea of a flip-flop is good. i HATE crowds, but want to start early (late feb, early mar). where would a good place to do this? north first then backto same spot and go south. (not being "true" thru-hikes) not a problem :)

ARambler
12-02-2007, 15:23
Hey, ARambler, since you have now thru-hiked both NOBO and SOBO (if I'm reading your post correctly), you are in a great position to weigh in on NOBO vs. SOBO. What dates did you begin and end your SOBO this year? How many days toward the end in the south did you have overnight lows below freezing, would you guess? Since you had done some bits in the south this year before you started at Katahdin, did you skip over those parts later in the year? It sounds like you started at Katahdin after June -- how did you find the black fly and skeeter situation in Maine, then, when you started? And congrats on the thru-hike.

I slacked to Abol Bridge on June 27 and left Abol on July 1 and got to Springer on November 3, 2007. This was a very dry June in ME and I saw few black-flies. It was the peak of mosquito season. I used a tent several several times, even with lots of room in the shelter. I'm glad I didn't have to get eaten all of June.

There were 2 (maybe 3) nights that they predicted freezing temperatures in the mountains. It got cold, but I never actually saw ice (just a little frost.) It was still peak leaf season, so being out another week would have been good, but beyond that I would have been exposed to at least a few cold nights. Note, it was a very dry year for the very early nobos (they were in VA for the April snow), and for sobos. Maybe not the best year to listen about how great our tents and rain gear were.

I was not tempted to skip the southern 107 miles. Al and I hiked the 20 back north to Woody gap after summiting Springer. When we ordered our plane tickets home we wanted to have a contingency day and it seemed to make sense to spend it hiking. I had a November 12 deadline. If I had not made it to Springer, I would have gone back in the spring and finished the sobo. It would have been good seeing the next crop of nobos. It was pretty clear this was not going to be necessary when I skipped the Gathering on Columbus Day. I have nothing against flip flopping and think section hiking shows the greatest commitment to the trail.
Rambler

dessertrat
12-02-2007, 16:40
The idea of a flip-flop is good. i HATE crowds, but want to start early (late feb, early mar). where would a good place to do this? north first then backto same spot and go south. (not being "true" thru-hikes) not a problem :)

Why not go Harper's Ferry to Springer and then Katahdin to Harper's Ferry? You don't have the dramatic "finish" of summiting a mountain, but if that doesn't matter to you, and you just want to do the whole trail, that seems like it would be the least crowded option.

warraghiyagey
12-02-2007, 16:48
I think SOBOs might gain confidence in their ability to hike the entire AT on ther own terms more quickly.

My guess is that there is less sniveling going SOBO, also.
SOBO. . . a most delicious experience!!:) :) :)

Doughnut
12-02-2007, 19:58
I now teach school, and my contract is through the school year, so, to avoid the legality of abandoning a contract, I have to wait till after school ends (jun) therefore, SOBO for me.

Dancer
12-03-2007, 07:02
in 2008 i want to hike. north or south. what are the + & - to each. i live in the middle. not a travel issue. i know start times my be different. any advice would be great.:)

It is really a matter of personality. There are several threads that address this. In making my decision to SOBO I read lots of trailjournals, books and threads here. I'm not in it for the social experience and I was turned off by the journals that reported snow and cold for the first month(s) of a NOBO.

I would rather face the difficult terrain first and the cold last. I can prepare physically for the terrain but I dislike being very cold or very hot. SOBO is the best alternative for me.

Before anyone responds about the cold/hot. I grew up on a tobacco farm in eastern NC. I know about hot weather, it's the extreme cold that I'm not used to. I'd rather do July/August in New England than in the Mid Atlantics.

kayak karl
12-03-2007, 08:59
i remember reading a thread on people doing a flip-flop (cant find it). please chime in with your opinions. ty

Deadeye
12-03-2007, 09:13
I actually prefer hiking northbound so the sun isn't in my eyes so much. :sun

tlw08
12-03-2007, 12:30
the ATC has a nice article on alternative (flip-flop) routes:

http://www.appalachiantrail.org/site/c.jkLXJ8MQKtH/b.848729/k.6FA1/Alternative_Itineraries.htm

EWS
12-03-2007, 12:36
the ATC has a nice article on alternative (flip-flop) routes:

http://www.appalachiantrail.org/site/c.jkLXJ8MQKtH/b.848729/k.6FA1/Alternative_Itineraries.htm

Good article with nice options.

kayak karl
12-03-2007, 17:30
the ATC has a nice article on alternative (flip-flop) routes:

http://www.appalachiantrail.org/site/c.jkLXJ8MQKtH/b.848729/k.6FA1/Alternative_Itineraries.htm

Thank You:)

4eyedbuzzard
12-03-2007, 18:14
kayak,

My daughter and I are considering doing the cool breeze itinerary in '09 or '10(year depends upon her school and my work schedules being able to be coordinated). If not, we'll just start at Springer as early as the weather breaks. We're going to evaluate the weather patterns and choose the starting point based upon that. We don't mind flipping around a few times if it makes the hike more enjoyable.