View Full Version : Freezer Bag Cooking
When I mentioned to my wife about possibly trying freezer bag cooking, she said that adding boiling (or close to it) water to freezer bags is not healthy - results in bad chemicals being released into the food (similar to Nalgene bottle thread I'm assuming). OK, PHDs in Bio-chemistry, give me the scoop! :)
LIhikers
12-07-2007, 09:04
It hasn't had any effect on me.me......me.....me.......me.......me..me....what were we talking about?.....sorry , it's just the kind of mood I'm in today :)
everything like this needs to be considered relative to the dose of chemicals you get by filling up your car with gas
in my opinion a year of freezer bag cooking might equal 1 fill-up - its nothing to worry about
Blue Jay
12-07-2007, 10:21
You are going to have a great many selfappointed researchers here assuring you it is completely safe to heat water in various types of plastics and they MAY be right. What if they are not? I like risk, especially if it is fun, but the tiny weight savings with this one does not seem worth experimenting on myself.
bulldog49
12-07-2007, 10:28
If you ate every meal for 10 years this way, you may experience a problem. Doing this on the occassional backpacking trip is not going to cause harm.
These so-called health hazards are always overstated.
taildragger
12-07-2007, 10:30
I'd imagine that its going to be dependent on the blastic used in the freezer bag. Since I'm not too familar with it, I'm gonna guess that yes, you will release some of the compounds. But then again, cooking in aluminum is supposed to be bad as well, so are non-stick surfaces, and we all seem to be using them as a nation, so, it cannot be worse than eating food thats been cooked in a teflon container.
If I were you, and last time I checked I am not, I would just throw the food in the pot of boiling water and deal with a little bit of a clean up. I know a little bit about plastic processing and some of the chemicals that you could come into contact with are probably residual poisons, which should be avoided more and more, unless you plan on dying young.
unless you plan on dying young.Already missed that boat! :eek: :D
Keep the opinions coming . . . all are worth considering, except L. Wolf's of course! :p
Dances with Mice
12-07-2007, 10:38
I know a little bit about plastic processing and some of the chemicals that you could come into contact with are probably residual poisons, which should be avoided more and more, unless you plan on dying young.Things are kind of slow on the board, so please tell us all you know.
Zip closure bags are polyethylene. If you want to "release compounds" from polyeth you will have to burn it.
Dances with Mice
12-07-2007, 10:41
But, hey, the heaviest thing to carry around are worries.
If you're worried about something and you can avoid it, then avoid it.
Then, as Forrest Gump would say, that's just one less thing to worry about.
Name brand freezer bags do not contain Dioxin, the nasty stuff you want to avoid. Neither does quality microwave wrap. And no matter what has been said online and in emails, most of the Lexan studies have been disqualified.
I did an article (http://www.freezerbagcooking.com/myblog.htm?blogentryid=1310588) on what I could find regarding plastic safety with many links in it.
As always, it is up to the person wether or not they feel safe.
taildragger
12-07-2007, 10:50
Things are kind of slow on the board, so please tell us all you know.
Zip closure bags are polyethylene. If you want to "release compounds" from polyeth you will have to burn it.
I wasn't thinking of actually releasing the organic polymers, more of a worry would be releasing trace compounds from the oil that was processed. Heavier end oils are typically pretty nasty, and you can only separate out so much of the the other crap in them while still being able to turn a good profit (and they do turn a good profit don't they!).
I'm also not sure how something like ethylene oxide would stay in the matrix. I assume that a little of it could leach out with added heat, but then again 100C isn't very hot...
But, I guess a better way to put this would be, do you drink coffee, you're probably doing more harm to your body by drinking it. Some with pop, or most processed foods.
And by dying young, I meant that you're pretty much gonna go strong and then just keel over before or on the day of your 75th birthday (thats still somewhat young by todays standards right?)
Name brand freezer bags do not contain Dioxin, the nasty stuff you want to avoid. Neither does quality microwave wrap. And no matter what has been said online and in emails, most of the Lexan studies have been disqualified.
I did an article (http://www.freezerbagcooking.com/myblog.htm?blogentryid=1310588) on what I could find regarding plastic safety with many links in it.
As always, it is up to the person wether or not they feel safe.Thanks sarbar! It was actually your links that started my interest in converting to freezer bag cooking. I just recently got a JetBoil, which is not conducive to simmer-type cooking, which has caused me to rethink my old dinner time habits. I like not having to "do dishes" which I accomplished with Mountain House meals on my last week-long hike. I'd just like to reduce the expense of MH meals. It looks like a lot of the recipies on one of your links are very similar to what I have been throwing together over the years - just cooking them in a conventional pot. Now if I can just get past the fear of freezer bag released toxins. ;)
taildragger
12-07-2007, 10:53
Name brand freezer bags do not contain Dioxin, the nasty stuff you want to avoid. Neither does quality microwave wrap. And no matter what has been said online and in emails, most of the Lexan studies have been disqualified.
I did an article (http://www.freezerbagcooking.com/myblog.htm?blogentryid=1310588) on what I could find regarding plastic safety with many links in it.
As always, it is up to the person wether or not they feel safe.
Right, if your plastic was processed correctly you shouldn't have worries, unless your really heating it up, but I'd hope that you're not boiling the water in your freezer bag (i.e. bag over an open fire).
I jest about that though, at least I hope I do, I really hope that there aren't people on this bulletin board that have tried that, then again, I don't think that I would be too suprised after some of the posts that I've read here...
Your Jetboil is a good purchase. If you decide to go sans bags (and btw, remember those older MH inner bags? They are essentially turkey bags!) you can always add the dry recipe ingredients to your JB and stir, turn off the heat and let sit for the time needed.
Btw, options to freezer bags? Turkey roasting bags, crock pot liner bags, food vac bags.
And by dying young, I meant that you're pretty much gonna go strong and then just keel over before or on the day of your 75th birthday (thats still somewhat young by todays standards right?)Actually, that would be fine by me! I pray to God that I die "going strong," you know, just drop dead at whatever age. That's so much more appealing than a slow, agonizing bed-ridden death. But then again, we don't get to choose how and when we die (unless by suicide). That's up to our Soverign God. ;)
btw, remember those older MH inner bags?I was wondering about what they use currently, and any toxin danger associated with them?
4eyedbuzzard
12-07-2007, 11:00
Zip seal type bags are made from Low Density Polyethelene(LDPE). LDPE melts at 248 to 266F(120 to 130C) depending upon the exact formulation. Normally it is rated for prolonged use at 173F (80C), with excursions to 203 F(95C). The somewhat notorious plasticizer bisphenol-a is not used in the manufacturing of LDPE bags.
Can chemicals leach from zip seal bags? Probably, but the amounts would be extrememly small. By the time you pour the water into it, the mass of the food pretty much instantly cools the mixture to well under that maximum 203 temperature anyway. Typically the average temperature in a pot of boiling water will be below 212 F due to temperature stratification in the water pot, rapid evaporative cooling, and boiling point altitutde(barometric pressure) correction.
The greatest danger with freezer bag cooking IMO is probably that the bags are significantly weaker mechanically when heated to near boiling point as with freezer bag cooking. Boiling water on the lap would worry me more than a few micrograms of plastic.
If anyone's really that worried, get a stainless steel cookpot and utensils and avoid any non-stick cookware as well. And don't cook or get anywhere near a campfire. The amount of carcinogens released from burning wood is quite impressive comparatively.
Actually, that would be fine by me! I pray to God that I die "going strong," you know, just drop dead at whatever age. That's so much more appealing than a slow, agonizing bed-ridden death. But then again, we don't get to choose how and when we die (unless by suicide). That's up to our Soverign God. ;)
I guess it's all a matter of perspective. I thing my sovereign God gets input from me on how I want to die every time I make a health decision.;)
If you decide to go sans bags One of the appeals of freezer bag cooking is more room for the water and ingredients. My first hike with my JetBoil, I did instant rice with various bullion cube, dried French onions, summer sausage, garlic salt (yum, I'm making myself hungry! :D ), and the resultant concoction was pretty good, but I ran out of room and it was very difficult to stir all this to mix it up well. The freezer bag would solve that, I think, and eliminate KP duty! ;)
I guess it's all a matter of perspective. I thing my sovereign God gets input from me on how I want to die every time I make a health decision.;)Couldn't agree more . . . He gave us minds and expects us to use them wisely, and for His glory, not our own glory! ;)
Dances with Mice
12-07-2007, 11:29
I wasn't thinking of actually releasing the organic polymers, more of a worry would be releasing trace compounds from the oil that was processed. Heavier end oils are typically pretty nasty, and you can only separate out so much of the the other crap in them while still being able to turn a good profit (and they do turn a good profit don't they!). If you want to turn a good profit then you turn out a good product. My corporation doesn't produce PE but we buy it by the boxcar load. You do know that polyethylene resin production starts with ethylene gas and steam, right?
High density PE is clean enough that it's used to store aqueous solutions for gas chromatography / mass spectroscopy. It's used to store milk, too. But those gc/ms guys are just off the wall insane about organic contaminants. Well, compared to me but vibrational spectroscopists are the dirty filthy pigs of the analytical world. Anyway, the point is that PE is used for aqueous (that's water) solutions because PE is highly hydrophobic. It doesn't like water. PE and water ignore each other. It's a personality conflict kind of thing that goes way back, almost as bad as the way some of my aunts behave during family reunions.
If there's anything leaching out of PE I'd really like to know, and also how it was detected and identified. I'm willing to read the article. I get paid to do that.
But not this. Gotta go!
taildragger
12-07-2007, 12:18
If you want to turn a good profit then you turn out a good product. My corporation doesn't produce PE but we buy it by the boxcar load. You do know that polyethylene resin production starts with ethylene gas and steam, right?
High density PE is clean enough that it's used to store aqueous solutions for gas chromatography / mass spectroscopy. It's used to store milk, too. But those gc/ms guys are just off the wall insane about organic contaminants. Well, compared to me but vibrational spectroscopists are the dirty filthy pigs of the analytical world. Anyway, the point is that PE is used for aqueous (that's water) solutions because PE is highly hydrophobic. It doesn't like water. PE and water ignore each other. It's a personality conflict kind of thing that goes way back, almost as bad as the way some of my aunts behave during family reunions.
If there's anything leaching out of PE I'd really like to know, and also how it was detected and identified. I'm willing to read the article. I get paid to do that.
But not this. Gotta go!
Right, right. My thoughts were more along the lines of, "100C water on low density polyethylene...that could loosen things up". And on the heavier oil comment, well, my thought process is still tuned into refining diesel using heavier oils (even though I'm not working in that industry for the moment).
But I must say, this has been one of the better threads that I've seen on WB in a while, very informative.
The greatest danger with freezer bag cooking IMO is probably that the bags are significantly weaker mechanically when heated to near boiling point as with freezer bag cooking. Boiling water on the lap would worry me more than a few micrograms of plastic.What I envision doing is boiling the water in my JetBoil, pouring it into the freezer bag which is sitting on a rock, log, or shelter bench/floor (held upright and open by one hand). After stirring well, I'd zip it, forcing most of the air out, and slip it back into the JetBoil pot, which should have cooled enough (I've noticed it cools quite quickly) not to damage the bag. I doubt the lid would fit on the JB, but even if some of the ziploc bag is sticking out, this will help retain the heat, especially in cold weather, while the food is steeping. After about 10 minutes it should be ready . . . I know I will be! :D
4eyedbuzzard
12-07-2007, 14:18
Most people seem to just set the bag up in one of those thermal cozys which seem reasonably supportative. I'm a little behind the times, I still eat out of the pot or use a bowl(plastic of course:eek: ).
The JetBoil has a "cozy" built into it. BTW, I'm with you as I've mostly cooked and eaten right out of the pot on all my solo hiking adventures.
Summit, that works well. I know a couple people who use the JB pot as a "support" for the bags. Makes easy eating. And heck, many small pans work this way as well :) My MSR Titan did!
SARBAR
I just wanted to tell ya about an experience I had a couple of weeks ago.
At deer camp I was cooking some pork tenderloins and had instant potatoes to go along with them. As I poured boiling water into a gallon bag full of two pkgs of instant potatoes, I heard the guys shreik that the bags would melt! LOL they really enjoyed the loaded baked instant potatoes, btw.
Heh! Awesome Karo...... :)