View Full Version : total costs of water treatment
Wow, call me blind, but it took forever to figure out how to post a new thread. Okay, here we go! Let me just preface this post by saying how much I have gained from purusing the many threads on whiteblaze. Thank you all for letting others benefit from your knowledge and experience. Also, I'd like to ask that you resist the urge to post your personal opinion on this thread. I have very specific questions, so if you can't answer then don't:) .
I have been looking at various forms of water treatment and have decided that overall cost will be the deciding facter for my 08 thru-hike. I've done as much research via the web as I can here in Korea, but there are a couple things I can't do. That's where you come in. So let me present what I've come up with thus far. (I'm being very liberal in my estimates, if you have better estimates, please let me know. Also I'm giving myself 160 days to complete a thru.)
Aquamira 24 pack $14
If I drink 4 liters of water/day, one pack will last 6 days, so I will need 27 packs for 160 days. Total cost $378.
If I drink 6 liters of water/day, one pack will last 4 days, so I will need 40 packs for 160 days. Total cost $560.
SteriPen Adventurer $130
Batteries (2 AA alkaline) last for about 50 uses (so I've heard).
If I drink 4 liters of water/day, one set of batteries will last 12 days, so I will need 13 sets of batteries for 160 days. Total cost unknown.
If I drink 6 liters of water/day, one set of batteries will last 8 days, so I will need 20 sets of batteries. Total cost unknown.
So here's where you come in! What I'd like to know is how many times can the steripen be used with lithium batteries and how much do lithium batteries cost (average). If you can supply that info for me, I would be very happy!
My third option was wal-mart iodine water treatment tablets, but I just found out you shouldn't use iodine treatment for long periods of time, so that just got the axe.
If anyone has the time, another cool things to figure out would be total costs of different stoves (alcohol, white gas, canister). You could find out at the end of the 160 day hike how much fuel you used and how much all that fuel cost! It would be interesting to find out. Well thanks for your help! Again, I'm not looking for what you think is the best water treatment, I can read what you think about the subject on many other threads, please refrain!
warraghiyagey
12-07-2007, 20:49
There's other water treatment that is waaaaaay less expensive. If you care to know but as you demand with the thread I don't want to put out anything that would be considered an opinion unless you specifically ask. Just letting you know there are other options.
Thanks warraghiyagey, I realize I should clarify. If you know specific costs of other water treatments then please let me know. The reason I only did the costs of these is because the cost is ongoing until the end of your hike. Water filters (cheaper) of course are a one time payment, unless you replace the cartridge. Thanks and I didn't mean to sound abrasive :).
Dances with Mice
12-07-2007, 21:09
Polar Pur. (http://www.outdooroutlet.com/shopping.php?pg=product-detail&id=869) 2000 liters, 12 bucks.
Lone Wolf
12-07-2007, 21:11
No filter, no treatment, no cost
Dances with Mice
12-07-2007, 21:11
Polar Pur. (http://www.outdooroutlet.com/shopping.php?pg=product-detail&id=869) 2000 liters, 12 bucks.And Vitamin C tablets negate the iodine ingestion problem.
warraghiyagey
12-07-2007, 21:15
Thanks warraghiyagey, I realize I should clarify. If you know specific costs of other water treatments then please let me know. The reason I only did the costs of these is because the cost is ongoing until the end of your hike. Water filters (cheaper) of course are a one time payment, unless you replace the cartridge. Thanks and I didn't mean to sound abrasive :).
No prob. Sometimes it's better to state your purpous at the offset for sure. My other option comes in the forms of iodine pills and bleach drops. either of these are significantly cheaper but you could probably do the entire trail with bleach drops alternative (0 to 5 drops in 3 liter camelpak - depending on the water) for less than five bucks. And it works as well as the very expensive options IMO. And I didn't arrive at this on my own. I learned it as I went from some great people/hikers. Just a thought. Be happy to share particulars if you like. Kept me healthy that's for sure.
Thanks for the link. I'm a little concerned with iodine though. It should not be used for long periods of time. So what is considered a long time? I'm still trying to find out. Iodine is obviously the cheapest route, but is iodine safe to use everyday for 5 months?
warraghiyagey
12-07-2007, 21:17
No filter, no treatment, no cost
There's a question I'd like to ask you Wolf. Do you use any water treatment. If so, when and what?
Lone Wolf
12-07-2007, 21:18
There's a question I'd like to ask you Wolf. Do you use any water treatment. If so, when and what?
no. i have never treated or filtered
warraghiyagey
12-07-2007, 21:23
Thanks for the link. I'm a little concerned with iodine though. It should not be used for long periods of time. So what is considered a long time? I'm still trying to find out. Iodine is obviously the cheapest route, but is iodine safe to use everyday for 5 months?
The alternate effects of iodine can be abated by having a yogurt or two in town stops.
warraghiyagey
12-07-2007, 21:25
no. i have never treated or filtered
Thanks man. My trail friends always wonder why I don't. I admit to having used iodine here and there and bleach drops but I've never used anything in two trips through Maine/NH and only where the water seems a little sketchy from there on as far as I've gotten.
Whatever you choose to filter water you may want to look at reliability. I seem to remember reading some reviews (can’t remember where) that said the SteriPen had reliability issues. I would hate to rely on a something that had problems. Heat (boiling water) has worked for thousands of years to purify water, and with a wood stove it’s virtually free.
Isn't aquamira available in small bottles also. That two part stuff.
Very cheap at Walmart but you have to watch expiry dates.
Though I know mine expired years ago but keep using it.
I don't really need anything up here though because I do not hike near farms or people and I almost always boil my water with the Kelly Kettle. I am fairly confident it is as safe or safer than my tap water at home, or bottled water for that matter. Neither are routinely tested for Cryptosporidium.
Jak how do you like the Kelly Kettle? I have a Thermette and love it.
Jak, you are confusing aquamira and the walmart stuff. Aquamira is chlorine dioxide. The walmart stuff is iodine. Iodine is definitly cheaper, but again I'm questioning the health risks of using iodine exclusivly for 5 months.
warraghiyagey
12-07-2007, 21:50
. . . Heat (boiling water) has worked for thousands of years to purify water, and with a wood stove it’s virtually free.
I think I've only seen a handful of hikers carrying woodstoves along with them.:-?
I think I've only seen a handful of hikers carrying woodstoves along with them.:-?
It still stands as a very effective way to purify water on a budget. And there are lots of plans for compact, light weight, and easy to build wood stoves on the net.
Jak, you are confusing aquamira and the walmart stuff. Aquamira is chlorine dioxide. The walmart stuff is iodine. Iodine is definitly cheaper, but again I'm questioning the health risks of using iodine exclusivly for 5 months.No I have seen Aquamira in the Walmart here in Canada. Not recently I'll admit. Expiry dates were an issue also.
warraghiyagey
12-07-2007, 22:02
I think I've only seen a handful of hikers carrying woodstoves along with them.:-?
It still stands as a very effective way to purify water on a budget. And there are lots of plans for compact, light weight, and easy to build wood stoves on the net.
Theres also other much lighter stove options very popular on the trail in the event one wants to boil their drinking water and then wait for it to cool enough that they can put it in their choice of drink container about 3 to 4 times a day. None of which was a woodstove, I was kidding.
4eyedbuzzard
12-07-2007, 22:05
[quote=ATbound;466645]SteriPen Adventurer $130
Batteries (2 AA alkaline) last for about 50 uses (so I've heard).
If I drink 4 liters of water/day, one set of batteries will last 12 days, so I will need 13 sets of batteries for 160 days. Total cost unknown.
If I drink 6 liters of water/day, one set of batteries will last 8 days, so I will need 20 sets of batteries. Total cost unknown.
So here's where you come in! What I'd like to know is how many times can the steripen be used with lithium batteries and how much do lithium batteries cost (average). If you can supply that info for me, I would be very happy! quote]
You don't really need lithium batteries. Lithium batteries cost anywhere from 5 to 10 times as much as alkalines and at best have twice the life(watt/hours) and most testing only gives them about a 20 to 50% life increase. Lithiums are excellent for extreme cold weather and shelf-life(such as in an emergency flashlight that may only get used 5 years down the road.) Alkalines start to lose efficiency around freezing temps, but even in cold weather you can just warm them and small devices like a steripen up by putting them inside your jacket next to your body. Lithiums are a little lighter, but I just bought name brand AA alkalines in bulk at .25 ea - the cheapest you'll see AA lithiums for is about $2 ea.
Jak how do you like the Kelly Kettle? I have a Thermette and love it. Love it. Thermette also looks great.
For a while I've been trying to develop a hobo stove for winter because you can't cook or melt snow with a Kelly Kettle, but I've since decided the Kelly Kettle is still superior to anything I have built or conceived of yet. I don't bring the bottom with me anymore, which makes it more light and packable. Something I like to do is make a small warming fire after first making a batch of tea or tea and oatmeal with the Kelly Kettle. You can't run the Kelly Kettle without water in it, but once the fire is going with the Kelly Kettle as you heat your water you can add bigger spruce sticks so when the water is boiling, voila, instant small fire even in wet weather. Then I can melt snow or dry socks or whatever. In winter when its subsubfreexzing you kind have to have some water always ready to heat up though. I think a wineskin might be good for this, as you can pop it under clothing if needed.
I have several alcohol stoves that I have, I would take them for convince of use and weight. But ATBound seemed to be concerned with cost, I think wood would be the best for low price in purifying water. I use either the Thermette or my Katadyn filter.
But like many things in life there are many ways to do something, Lots of ways to filter water or make it safe to drink, none of them wrong, just different.
Something like a Kelly Kettle does kick butt over an alcohol stove or anything else if you want copious quantities of water heated to boiling for lots of hot drinks, hot meals, cleanup, daily ablutions, even sanitizing clothes. As long as you have ample fuel, which is still very little fuel.
Like you say though Bob. Many ways. I wouldn't use the Kelly Kettle the entire length of the AT. I would use a combination of alcohol and Kelly Kettle, or Thermette. Someone said it was too big for backpacking. It is bulky, but very manageable. You just need a special pocket on the back of your pack. The wasted space of the chimney can be used for your next meals fuel, firekit, and tea kit (tea, skim milk powder, honey). I usually jam by candle lantern in there also. Haven't found a water bottle to fit just right but that is also an option.
I love the Thermette, It’s amazing how little wood it takes to boil ½ gal of water. It also includes a cooking ring (made of Stainless Steel) at no extra cost. I bought a zip up bag for it at a local Army surplus store that is almost a perfect fit. It has a D-ring on it so you can hook it to the outside of a pack. That and a bungee to keep it tight against the pack it works well. I like backpacking, but I’m not real worried about having a super light pack. And the Thermette works for me. I will never through-hike the trail. I was in a motorcycle accident and broke both knees (lots of other bones also) and tore up the cartilage pretty bad and long distance hiking is not an option. But I still get out a lot. I spent a month in Michigan’s UP last year and plan a few weeks up there this year. Beautiful up there, other then the bugs.
bigcranky
12-07-2007, 23:54
Back to the original question, I'm trying to recall how long a set of Aqua Mira lasts. I'm certain it's more than 24 liters of water. I usually treat 4 liters at night, which lasts me for dinner, breakfast, and to get started hiking, then treat 2-3 more liters during the day (more in summer). I know the set has lasted me way more than a week, so that's probably at least 100 liters.
OK, I just did some research, and I see you mean the Aqua Mira *tablets* which come in packs of 12 and 24, and that's how many treatments you get.
That would be expensive, yes. But the liquid lasts 4-5 times longer for the same price, and isn't all that hard to use.
Hope this helps.
1) I am no student of Wolf, despite our proximity:p
2) Most creek/ spring water is fine, no need to treat, with some qualifiers:
A)Water must come off the mountain, not off the farm. If the source name includes the word "river", treat it. Carry a map and know where your water comes from.
B)Water must be flowing, not stagnant.
Most filtering folks worry about giardia, which neither of the above will protect you from. Drink at your own risk. Giardia is rare. Truth is (somebody back me up here) most gastrointestinal trail troubles come from bugs shared with other hikers. (Shared food bag, shared fecal matter)
To cut costs & weight, carry aquamira & treat any suspect sources. Don't share food with people who have been ****ting in the woods for five days. Don't worry about yourself, you can't give yourself a disease you already have.
I am not a thru-hiker but I am in the woods often and practice what I preach. If you're really worried about getting the super-sharts, treat everything. A little common sense here can go a long way.
Thanks for all the info about aquamira and lithium batteries. I suppose a decision has to be made soon: to treat or not to treat. I can't decide!
Thanks for all the info about aquamira and lithium batteries. I suppose a decision has to be made soon: to treat or not to treat. I can't decide!
For me it will never be a question of to treat or not to treat. Just a question of how to treat. I cannot see the savings of not treating being worth getting an intestinal bug occasionally. I don't have the time or desire to lay around somewhere in gut pain, or running off the trail many times a day to find a semisecluded spot to squirt out. Just me.
Kataydin Hiker filter: After the initial costs, replacement cartridges are guaranteed for one year. So, outfitters along the trail are used to swapping out cartidges.
Critterman
12-08-2007, 11:03
SteriPen Adventurer $130
Batteries (2 AA alkaline) last for about 50 uses (so I've heard).
If I drink 4 liters of water/day, one set of batteries will last 12 days, so I will need 13 sets of batteries for 160 days. Total cost unknown.
If I drink 6 liters of water/day, one set of batteries will last 8 days, so I will need 20 sets of batteries. Total cost unknown.
So here's where you come in! What I'd like to know is how many times can the steripen be used with lithium batteries and how much do lithium batteries cost (average). If you can supply that info for me, I would be very happy!
Check this site out for battery recogmendations :
http://www.hydro-photon.com/batterytesting.html
The Adventurerer uses 2 cr123 lithium batteries that cost about $10 for the pair and will treat 15 gallons. You can get the Adventurer for $99 too.
The regular Steripen costs $79, uses 4 AA lithium batteries at about $10 for a set but will treat 30 gallons. It works out to be half the cost to use as the Adventurer
4eyedbuzzard
12-08-2007, 12:19
Just wanted to add inre the battery issue. Lithiums are almost always better in short-cycle high drain devices like cameras, but less so in constant low drain devices like mp3 players, etc. If you're buying batteries on the local economy in trail towns and in small quantities(like 4 packs) and the lithiums are only 2 1/2 times the price of the alkalines, the lithiums are probably a better deal or break even at worst.
Steripen claims about 3 times the life from lithiums http://www.hydro-photon.com/batterytesting.html, and doen't even recommend using alkalines which may be due to the voltage/discharge curve differences between alkalines vs lithiums, but this guy http://tinyurl.com/2ktla3 got about the same life from high-end alkalines in his Steripen. Note that the lighter weight Steripen model only uses 123A batteries which are only available as lithiums. Lithiums supply a more constant voltage over their life and then die more quickly at the end, while alkalines tend to lose voltage more linearly over their lifespan. This can be particularly important in headlamps as well, as headlamps without voltage regulating circuits(many of the smaller less expensive ones) require a minimum voltage to illumiate the LED's.
There was a pretty long thread here on WB about a year back http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=21191&highlight=lithium on battery life/cost for a thru-hike. From what I remember, if you can buy alkalines at a good discount they were more efficient from a usage standpoint than lithiums(which are less often discounted), but in small quantities at retail prices the lithiums were generally a better buy at up to 2 1/2 times the price per battery. Lithiums weigh a bit less as well(about 60% the weight of alkalines) so you will save a few ounces in pack weight. Regardless, the difference in cost over a thru-hike was pretty insignificant in the scope of things. For shorter hikes when you can take advantage of buying alkalines cheap in bulk packs they are almost always a better deal in everything but cameras.
No filter, no treatment, no cost
I'm on that plan.
4eyedbuzzard
12-08-2007, 12:29
Just wondering, for all those that do carry filtration/sterilization equipment - just how well do you adhere to always using it? I used to always carry a filter after they became in vogue, but must admit the thing was such a PIA that I often didn't use it. You have to be so careful not to cross-contamiate stuff as well, I eventually just stopped carrying it.
Footslogger
12-08-2007, 12:34
My total cost of water purification for the entire thru in 2003 was around $75. I bought 6 sets of Aqua Mira (2 part liquid) in advance at about $12 a piece. Hiked with one set and kept the rest in my bounce box.
I should also mention that I did not purify all the water I drank.
'Slogger
dessertrat
12-08-2007, 12:50
no. i have never treated or filtered
Does that include not running mucky water through a bandana or coffee filter?
(And by the way, you could use chlorine bleach, it's very cheap, though there are also some health questions about it).
Lone Wolf
12-08-2007, 12:54
Does that include not running mucky water through a bandana or coffee filter?
(And by the way, you could use chlorine bleach, it's very cheap, though there are also some health questions about it).
no. i don't carry bandanas or coffee fliters. using bleach ain't a friggin option.
OK, so the gist of this thread is that you don't probably don't need to treat or filter clear-running high mountain stream water? I was under the impression deer/wildlife urine could contain giardia etc. I hiked and camped some back in the 1970s and we drank creek water like gatorade with no problem. Now, I treat it all with iodine or aquamira but want a filter to avoid the chemical taste. But now I'm wondering if the need for filters with clear-running water is all marketing hype. Come to think of it, a guy working in a hiking store is the one who told me about the deer spreading nasty germs.
Anything suggesting aquamira isn't the best system is marketing hype. :D
A 2oz aquamira kit is good for 55 gallons, or about 200 litres.
You should be able to do a thru-hike on 1 or 2 if you sometimes boil water instead.
One option I haven't seen yet for water purifcation is common household bleach.
My girlfriend and I used bleach for 5 months of our AT thru-hike, three drops per liter of water, treated for 30 minutes minimum. One time we had to buy it, $1.00 at a grocery store, but mostly it was *easily* had for free from friendly folks we met along the way. It weighed less than half what Aqua Mira weighed, and cost < 1% the cost Aqua Mira would have.
Neither of us ever got sick, either, not that that proves a damn thing ;)
But now I'm wondering if the need for filters with clear-running water is all marketing hype. Come to think of it, a guy working in a hiking store is the one who told me about the deer spreading nasty germs.
A filter is very inexpensive ins against getting sick and dehydrated. When I was in Boy scouts we were on a week long camping trip and one of the other kids got sick and had the runs, he spent ½ the week sick, and several more at home. They think it was from drinking river water. I never forgot that and now I never drink unfiltered or boiled water. It just too easy to make clean water that I would not think of dipping my drinking cup in a stream and taking a swig.
take-a-knee
12-09-2007, 00:49
One option I haven't seen yet for water purifcation is common household bleach.
My girlfriend and I used bleach for 5 months of our AT thru-hike, three drops per liter of water, treated for 30 minutes minimum. One time we had to buy it, $1.00 at a grocery store, but mostly it was *easily* had for free from friendly folks we met along the way. It weighed less than half what Aqua Mira weighed, and cost < 1% the cost Aqua Mira would have.
Neither of us ever got sick, either, not that that proves a damn thing ;)
Bleach (Calcium Hypochlorite) is option, but not one without drawbacks, it won't touch some protozoans, it is bound to any organic matter in solution, so unless your water is clear you may not have the required 5 PPM in solution to be effective. Also, it has been linked to bladder cancer, which is why I filter my water at home for drinking and cooking, not to mention I don't like what I drink to taste like pool water.
dessertrat
12-09-2007, 13:27
no. i don't carry bandanas or coffee fliters. using bleach ain't a friggin option.
Pardon the appearance that I was suggesting that you use it; I was thinking of the original poster-- that's what I get for trying to talk to two people at once.
dessertrat
12-09-2007, 13:43
Bleach (Calcium Hypochlorite) is option, but not one without drawbacks, it won't touch some protozoans, it is bound to any organic matter in solution, so unless your water is clear you may not have the required 5 PPM in solution to be effective. Also, it has been linked to bladder cancer, which is why I filter my water at home for drinking and cooking, not to mention I don't like what I drink to taste like pool water.
True, there are open questions. I know a peace corp volunteer who drank bleached water for almost three years, and hasn't had any ill effects, but an anecdote does not a statistic make. However, I don't think anyone has shown a link between bleach to treat water and any ill health effects, have they?
Nearly Normal
12-09-2007, 16:08
[
"Most filtering folks worry about giardia, which neither of the above will protect you from. Drink at your own risk. Giardia is rare. Truth is (somebody back me up here) most gastrointestinal trail troubles come from bugs shared with other hikers. (Shared food bag, shared fecal matter)"
I'll agree with this. Shelters, food prep areas, and the shelter register most seem to dive for when they show up are probably the biggest concern. I've seen people complain about all the mice and sit a spoon down while cooking on the shelter floor.
I
Johnny Swank
12-09-2007, 16:29
FWIW - I collected data from about 545 thru-hikers recently. That translates to over 1,000,000 miles hiked. Of that sample, less than a dozen reported getting a water-borne illness, regardless of treatment method or frequency of treatment (or none as the case may be). Just something to chew on.
hopefulhiker
12-09-2007, 16:31
Next year I would definetly take a filter, even though I prefer aqua mira..
take-a-knee
12-09-2007, 18:05
True, there are open questions. I know a peace corp volunteer who drank bleached water for almost three years, and hasn't had any ill effects, but an anecdote does not a statistic make. However, I don't think anyone has shown a link between bleach to treat water and any ill health effects, have they?
Most everyone in the US who doesn't have a well drinks chlorinated water (chlorine dioxide) all their lives, that is what municipal water systems use, the supposed health problems with chlorine are for a small minority over decades, not something you'd encounter on a hike, even a thru. If you get much over 10 PPM with your chlorine solution, you'll get the ravel butt from the chlorine immeadiately. I just don't like drinking "pool water". The katadyn tabs are palatable, and I can stand polar pure if I have to.
Christopher Robin
12-09-2007, 18:38
1) I am no student of Wolf, despite our proximity:p
2) Most creek/ spring water is fine, no need to treat, with some qualifiers:
A)Water must come off the mountain, not off the farm. If the source name includes the word "river", treat it. Carry a map and know where your water comes from.
B)Water must be flowing, not stagnant.
Most filtering folks worry about giardia, which neither of the above will protect you from. Drink at your own risk. Giardia is rare. Truth is (somebody back me up here) most gastrointestinal trail troubles come from bugs shared with other hikers. (Shared food bag, shared fecal matter)
To cut costs & weight, carry aquamira & treat any suspect sources. Don't share food with people who have been ****ting in the woods for five days. Don't worry about yourself, you can't give yourself a disease you already have.
I am not a thru-hiker but I am in the woods often and practice what I preach. If you're really worried about getting the super-sharts, treat everything. A little common sense here can go a long way.
This not aways the case, in the White's you should treet, I got Girdia from a PCpiped water, @ New Engand state surjust you do. Why not get a water filter pump for $60-$100 @ it will last the whole AT @ use tabs. to off-set whet you are hiking during the day. Med. speaking iodine shoul not be used for long @ the other is less but still taking a risk.:rolleyes:
Aquamira liquid is the option I would go with. Using the standard dosing method you can treat about 30 gallons for $15.00. That would be either 30 days - 4 litres a day or 20 days - 6 litres a day. There are ways to treat even more water with one aquamira kit. If you cut the dose in half and double the treatment time you can treat twice as much water from one kit. The site below is were I got this information (look under dosing strategies). I used this method on my 07 thru hike and did not have any problems. And remember you are not going to treat every drop of water, some of your water will be from town and other reliable sources. Doubling the treatment time works great over night, treat the next days breakfast and starting water.
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/klearwater_xinix_chlorine_dioxide_clo2_water_treat ment.html
Dosing Strategies.
FWIW - I collected data from about 545 thru-hikers recently. That translates to over 1,000,000 miles hiked. Of that sample, less than a dozen reported getting a water-borne illness, regardless of treatment method or frequency of treatment (or none as the case may be). Just something to chew on.
A curious thought:Even for that few, just how did they determine it was a "water-borne illness? The incubation period for giardia is in weeks, not days, which is why water quality often times gets a 'bad rap'! Stomach problems (diarrhea)are almost immediately attributed to water when it is more likely that culprit could be more directly related either to the stress of putting an unprepared and unconditioned body to extremely heavy exercise of walking up and down mountains under a heavy load while eating a poor diet or, attributed to poor hygiene, as in s****y hands.
Johnny Swank
12-09-2007, 19:32
Most didn't get into that, 1 off the top of my head had a Giardia test turn up positive. I'm thinking along the same lines as you - there's plenty of things that can give you the green-apple quickstep that aren't Giardia that need attention far more than whatever flavor of water treatment (or not) you prefer. Sanitation is far, far more important that what brand of filter, type of bleach, etc. A .99 cent bottle of hand sanitizer can buy more protection, IMO.
Lone Wolf
12-09-2007, 20:44
FWIW - I collected data from about 545 thru-hikers recently. That translates to over 1,000,000 miles hiked. Of that sample, less than a dozen reported getting a water-borne illness, regardless of treatment method or frequency of treatment (or none as the case may be). Just something to chew on.
how did that 11 or less know for SURE they had a water-borne illness?
warraghiyagey
12-09-2007, 20:47
how did that 11 or less know for SURE they had a water-borne illness?
The doctor in the delivery room told them.
Skidsteer
12-09-2007, 20:48
FWIW - I collected data from about 545 thru-hikers recently. That translates to over 1,000,000 miles hiked. Of that sample, less than a dozen reported getting a water-borne illness, regardless of treatment method or frequency of treatment (or none as the case may be). Just something to chew on.
Interesting....thanks for passing along the info.
take-a-knee
12-09-2007, 23:09
Most didn't get into that, 1 off the top of my head had a Giardia test turn up positive. I'm thinking along the same lines as you - there's plenty of things that can give you the green-apple quickstep that aren't Giardia that need attention far more than whatever flavor of water treatment (or not) you prefer. Sanitation is far, far more important that what brand of filter, type of bleach, etc. A .99 cent bottle of hand sanitizer can buy more protection, IMO.
That is like arguing over which is more important, a ballistic helmet or a ballistic vest. If someone is trying to kill you, you might want to invest in both.
I don't treat water. If you want to treat yours cheaply, clorox works fine and will cost you about $2 for the entire trail. Check the Clorox website or the red cross website.
dessertrat
12-12-2007, 15:06
This not aways the case, in the White's you should treet, I got Girdia from a PCpiped water, @ New Engand state surjust you do. Why not get a water filter pump for $60-$100 @ it will last the whole AT @ use tabs. to off-set whet you are hiking during the day. Med. speaking iodine shoul not be used for long @ the other is less but still taking a risk.:rolleyes:
How do you know where you got it?
oldfivetango
12-12-2007, 17:14
No prob. Sometimes it's better to state your purpous at the offset for sure. My other option comes in the forms of iodine pills and bleach drops. either of these are significantly cheaper but you could probably do the entire trail with bleach drops alternative (0 to 5 drops in 3 liter camelpak - depending on the water) for less than five bucks. And it works as well as the very expensive options IMO. And I didn't arrive at this on my own. I learned it as I went from some great people/hikers. Just a thought. Be happy to share particulars if you like. Kept me healthy that's for sure.
Go do your own research as to whethor or not bleach kills cryptosporidia
spores.
Oldfivetango
Jack Tarlin
12-12-2007, 20:46
My two cents:
I abolutely believe that most people who claim to have gotten sick while hiking because of their consumption of unpure water have actually gotten ill because of their own carelessness or failure to practice even rudimentary basic personal hygeine.
To put it bluntly, improper washing of one's body (especially hands); cookware; water bottles; cleaning cloths, etc. have made a lot more people sick than bad water.
Also, the vast majority of folks don't maintain their filters properly, if at all, and are lulled into a false sense of security. I have seen people use filters/cartridges etc. that were MUCH more of a threat to their well being than the water source they were drawing from, and in fact, in many cases, they'd have been better off drinking the water straight.
The best investment one can make on a long hike is to regularly purchase small bottles of hand sanitizer, which should then be used religiously.
In brief, it's the combination of your ass and your hands that will sicken you out there long before your drinking water does.
I use Aqua Mira, some what expensive, but worth the pirce because, unlike Iodine, Aqua Mira leaves no after-taste.
Kirby
take-a-knee
12-12-2007, 21:10
My two cents:
I abolutely believe that most people who claim to have gotten sick while hiking because of their consumption of unpure water have actually gotten ill because of their own carelessness or failure to practice even rudimentary basic personal hygeine.
To put it bluntly, improper washing of one's body (especially hands); cookware; water bottles; cleaning cloths, etc. have made a lot more people sick than bad water.
Also, the vast majority of folks don't maintain their filters properly, if at all, and are lulled into a false sense of security. I have seen people use filters/cartridges etc. that were MUCH more of a threat to their well being than the water source they were drawing from, and in fact, in many cases, they'd have been better off drinking the water straight.
The best investment one can make on a long hike is to regularly purchase small bottles of hand sanitizer, which should then be used religiously.
In brief, it's the combination of your ass and your hands that will sicken you out there long before your drinking water does.
I can't argue with anything you wrote Jack, I believe that was nothing but facts. BUT the fact still remains that there are coliform bacteria and protozoans in a lot of the water on the AT and just about everywhere else in the east. Some people have enough IGA antibodies in their intestinal tracts that an infectious dose (for them) is higher than a lot of other people. I've been on four continents, I've had the runs on three, eating hermetically sealed GI rations. I'll carry my 7oz filter. If I get too weak to carry an extra half pound, I'll stay home.
This product works wonderfully well...
http://www.rei.com/product/671113
Two to three bottles will last a thru-hike, and at $10 a bottle that's less than the cost of a filter.
Critterman
12-13-2007, 22:58
Go do your own research as to whethor or not bleach kills cryptosporidia
spores.
Oldfivetango
More info on chemical disinfectants than you will want to read.http://chppm-www.apgea.army.mil/WPD/Disinfectants.aspx
Almost all of us have been drinking safe water disinfected with chlorine at home. It is not the perfect chemical to use for all bugs that is true.
"
Go do your own research as to whethor or not bleach kills cryptosporidia
spores.
Oldfivetango"
Aqua Mira doesnt' kill giardia in a reasonable timeframe. I don't know of any chemical treatment that kills crypto in a reasonable amount of time.
take-a-knee
12-14-2007, 00:25
"
Go do your own research as to whethor or not bleach kills cryptosporidia
spores.
Oldfivetango"
Aqua Mira doesnt' kill giardia in a reasonable timeframe. I don't know of any chemical treatment that kills crypto in a reasonable amount of time.
I believe the Katadyn tabs claim to do so with a four hour contact time.
take-a-knee
12-15-2007, 02:04
Who waits four hours?
I do, I use two 70oz platypus bladders. I fill one, hook it up to a camelback hose with a Seychelle gravity filter plumbed into it. In a few minutes the other bag is full of filtered water. I refill the first bag and treat it with the katydyn tabs. I have plenty of water to drink while the other bladder "cooks".