View Full Version : Mountian Equip Co-Op removes Nalgene Bottles from Shelves.
Toolshed
12-07-2007, 21:36
Mountain Equipment Co-Op (MEC) just removed all Nalgene bottles (Nalge Nunc is in my Hometown on the South Shore, across from Toronto) from it's shelves and has stopped selling polycarbonates due to Bisphenol A.
Tronno GlobeN'mail link (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20071207.wcoop07/BNStory/National/home)
i own one nargele, can i sue them ??? :-?:D
It is sad that MEC could not have done more research:
http://www.nalgene-outdoor.com/technical/bpaInfo.html
Sarbar,
Nalgene might consider Nalgene safe. That doesn't mean Nalgene is safe.
MEC has done its research and they've decided in the balance to pull it off their shelves. They feel there are better alternatives for water bottles. If you still want Bisphenol-A from MEC you can get it from their water filters. :)
I also think there are better alternatives. Nalgene has some risks because of the Bisphenol-A and so there are alternatives with less risk, like plastics 1, 2, 4, or 5. There is way to much crap like Bisphenol-A in our environment and in our bodies already. I know Nalgene Polycarbonate water bottles are not the only source of Bisphenol-A, and that there is a lot more crap like Bisphenol-A out there, but we should try and minimize it all where we can. MEC did the right thing.
I'd hedge personally that MEC is attempting more to look good and positive in the whole "green scheme" that is going on currently.
From what I can see, MEC didn't carry a lot of it in the first place, so it really isn't that big overall that they pulled a couple containers, GSI and Nalgene bottles.
REI though? They carry tons of polycarbonate. From plates, mugs, cups, utensils, bottles, storage items, etc.
From the massive amount of research I have looked at (from every side and viewpoint) I am not tossing my polycarbonate items into the garbage or recycle bin any time soon!
I fear my SUV more than I do my Nalgene water bottle. I would hedge that my biodiesel run Mercedes will put out more crap that I shouldn't be exposed to than a lifetime supply of polycarbonates would ever hope to attain.
Life is about risks, and no matter what we do there will always be some risk.
My personal view is that hoopla over polycarbonates this year is the same as the previous years junk on "one use" water bottles, baby bottles, microwave conatiners, aluminum pans and Teflon lined pans.
People seriously need to get a grip.
I had my first rant in a long-time on a "well-behaved website" over this topic a while back.
You can die in a few days of dehydration or die about the same time you would have any way from some "chemicals" though nobody can quite put their hands on them.
Maybe the folks who are so worried should just go back to carrying mason jars......
I stick to enjoying the "contents" of my mason jar in town.....
Ramble~On
12-09-2007, 13:02
:D Yeah, them thar folk that ah carry round them mason jars might be un to somethin'.
Ramble~On
12-09-2007, 13:04
-----Wait a tarnation dag gum minute...
Ceramic Crocks ain't all that bad neither !
I don't mind so much people still selling Nalgene Polycarbonate bottles. People can do their own research. It's when those same people that sell Nalgene Polycarbonate bottles tell you re-using PET bottles aren't safe; that's what drives me round the bend. Also people that sell bottled water and tell you its safer than tap water, when it ain't.
Why not use Poweraid or Gatoraid bottles instead. That's all I'm saying.
Why not use Poweraid or Gatoraid bottles instead. That's all I'm saying.
No arguments on this. Although I do carry a small nalgene for boiling water when I'm mixing oatmeal or cocoa in winter. Gatorade take a beating from boiling water.
But my biggest objections come from folks who come into my store and try to lecture me on how unsafe Nalgenes are because some goombah in the lifestyles section of the paper said it might be unsafe.
"GET A LIFE AND GET OUT OF MY STORE!!!" :mad: Well, I think it any way.......:datz
With the Kelly Kettle I pour boiling hot water, for everything. The Nalgene bottles always worked well so I always still carried one despite their weight. However, now that I have read up on Bisphenol A I will turn to something else because use so much boiling water. The heavier PET bottles like Gatoraide and Poweraide will actually hold up very well, and is safer, but it would be nice to have a more lasting solution. I've used aluminum also but find it hard to clean. Easy to thaw if frozen though. My current solution is one aluminum flask and one poweraid bottle and I'm working on a wineskin that I can carry hot water in. I am going to take another look at the High Density Polyethylene and Polypropylene Nalgene bottles also.
Polycarbonate isn't as safe though. That's just the way it is.
I see that many aluminum flasks are lined in plastic.
Now that I think of it the kettle I use at work is plastic.
The old sheep stomach is looking better and better. :)
I'll say this: I have cracked Gatoraid and Snapple bottles. I have yet to ever break a Nalgene bottle - and I have had fully loaded bottles drop out of my pack, and bash down talus slopes before I was able to grap onto the handle with my trekking pole. I have had one get left on my roof and drive off and hear the "boom" as it hit pavement - and yes, survived.
Lexan bottles last and hold up. When it comes down to having a item that will last and last in the backcountry I will take that. While I go UL, I have gone back to Lexan bottles for my water and a Platy bladder for camp. I have little to fear of those bottles falling apart. Having a Gatoraid bottle crack in the winter is not fun! Neither is having a Snapple bottle turn cloudy and get brittle after 5 days use on the PCT.
I guess I line it up with all the naysayers who complain about men eating soy products. My son lived on soy formula as a baby then went to soy milk. At 10 he is a boy nearing being a teen and is as manly as a boy can be. He loves soy milk, tofu and heck, vegan sausage. And did I mention he is in great shape, is over 5 ft tall now and not overweight? Yeah. And no boy boobs.
Oh yeah...and that same child of mine has a Lexan bottle for school use and two mini bottles for the trail.
That's a good point. Whatever plastic you choose for winter might need to hold up to -30F, or worse. Another point is, with the stuff they are putting in cows these days, if Nalgene is unsafe, most commercial dairy milk might be ten times worse. I drink a lot more milk than I do water from a Nalgene bottle. And yeah, I am now growing man boobs. That is probably not why, but thanks for bringing that up Sarbar. :(
Anyhow, I'll have to give whatever I'm doing the cold weather test. Cheers.
dessertrat
12-09-2007, 15:47
These folks should start smoking cigarettes and drinking whisky. With some real risk factors, you stop worrying about crap like bisphenol A.
That's an excellent point. “I always take it (Scotch whiskey) at night as a preventive of toothache. I have never had the toothache; and what is more, I never intend to have it.” - Mark Twain in Europe and Elsewhere
Just which type of Nalgene is in question:
The hard plastic Lexan, or the milky colored HDPE?
The milky colored HDPE is safe. We were talking about the Lexan. I might give the milky coloured HDPE a shot. First I will field test my Poweraid bottles though.
Toolshed
12-09-2007, 20:53
I won't stop using my Lexan Nalgene Bottle. They'll have to pry it from my well-hydrated dead hands!!!!!
That's an excellent point. “I always take it (Scotch whiskey) at night as a preventive of toothache. I have never had the toothache; and what is more, I never intend to have it.” - Mark Twain in Europe and Elsewhere
Just don't put the Scotch in a Nalgene!!!!!:eek: ;)
Scotch in Nalgene? Won't that put hair on your chest?
Ah yes, perhaps, but you'll never get the toothache.
Seriously though, what is the best material for carrying a fine scotch?
Ah yes, perhaps, but you'll never get the toothache.
Seriously though, what is the best material for carrying a fine scotch?
Glass :rolleyes: In it's orginal container. A bit heavy though ;)
Seriously though, what is the best material for carrying a fine scotch?
100% Dupioni Silk; Stuff sacks available in 62 Scottish tartans.
This fine silk is generated by Dupioni silk worms and spun in India the original home of fine silks. The silk is then woven into authentic Scottish tartans. This exquisite fabric is used for making apparel such as hiking kilts, and carrying a fine scotch on the Appalachian Trail. :)
The story about bpA in Nalgenes reminds me of the story about Peruvian officials who were loath to chlorinate their water supplies in the face of a cholera outbreak due to the possible presence of alleged cancer-causing chemicals as a byproduct: http://www.americanchemistry.com/s_chlorine/sec_content.asp?CID=1195&DID=4489&CTYPEID=107
Unless you make your own gear, a Nalgene might be the only thing made in the USA or Canada in your pack. :)
My 4 yo girl likes her two pink Nalgenes, made in USA.
Although I use Platypus bottles myself, I've seen one disappear in a puff of white smoke when it got too close to a stove. I don't think a Nalgene would do that...
I won't stop using my Lexan Nalgene Bottle. They'll have to pry it from my well-hydrated dead hands!!!!!
Keep in mind that nalgene is made from a synthetic estrogen. Try to protect your new giant breasts when the attackers arrive.
Keep in mind that nalgene is made from a synthetic estrogen. Try to protect your new giant breasts when the attackers arrive.
By now, if that was even true, we'd have legions of manly outdoorsy men with C cups across the world.
Yeah, I didn't think so :rolleyes: Guys get man boobs mostly when they get overweight. Same with women in most cases: big breasts go along with being heavier! It is not so often you see a woman with a rack when she is bone skinny.
Johnny Thunder
12-10-2007, 16:25
Didn't Nalgene used to make those clips that hold animals eyes open durring cosmetic testing?
If I drink from one with irony does that make it more healthy?
Dances with Mice
12-10-2007, 16:50
Keep in mind that nalgene is made from a synthetic estrogen. Right, got it. There are strong indications that Nalgene byproducts can cause health problems. If you're worried about Nalgene then don't use it. Then it's just one less thing to worry about.
The problem I've had is an extrapolation seen on this thread which I'll paraphrase as "if nalgene is bad and nalgene is a plastic then all plastics are bad". If I've made a strawman out of someone's argument then tell me and I'll apologize. It's like saying "tobacco is unhealthy and it's the leaf of a plant, so spinach must also be unhealthy." Apples and oranges, you know the saying.
Freezer bags are not made of Nalgene. They are polyethylene. Nalgene and polyethylene are both plastics but they have different compositions. They are not made out of the same stuff. They are as much alike as tobacco and spinach.
I smoke and drink a little but I stopped using plastic a few months ago since a found a lightweight stainless steel replacement called KleanKanteen,A little expensive but will last forever, Now my water tastes like water and my sour mash stay's pure..
Johnny Thunder
12-10-2007, 17:10
Right, got it. There are strong indications that Nalgene byproducts can cause health problems. If you're worried about Nalgene then don't use it. Then it's just one less thing to worry about.
The problem I've had is an extrapolation seen on this thread which I'll paraphrase as "if nalgene is bad and nalgene is a plastic then all plastics are bad". If I've made a strawman out of someone's argument then tell me and I'll apologize. It's like saying "tobacco is unhealthy and it's the leaf of a plant, so spinach must also be unhealthy." Apples and oranges, you know the saying.
Freezer bags are not made of Nalgene. They are polyethylene. Nalgene and polyethylene are both plastics but they have different compositions. They are not made out of the same stuff. They are as much alike as tobacco and spinach.
You did. No appologies needed.
I'll just take this opportunity to restate my point.
It took our scientific understanding of this earth hundreds (maybe even thousands) of years to evolve to the point where we understand, without doubt, that tobacco, which has been with our ancestors for thousands of years, is unhealthy.
Less than 100 years ago this same scientific understanding proved that the atom was the smallest thing on the planet. Well, we've evolved past that, haven't we? It has also proved other things to be healthy and unhealthy in the past and then found the truth to be otherwise.
Right now, a large part of our populace has decided to take this evolving scientific knowledge and decide that we have reached a zenith in our understanding of how heated petroleum based compounds (and their bi-products) interact with the human body.
I don't know, maybe it's just me, but it seems like there are some viable options using materials which have been in our environment for thousands of years. Glass. Metals. Ceramics. I refuse to chose convenience over safety.
Time Line - 1,000 years from now. BREAKING HEADLINES: Scientists have concluded after years of research, that Banana Creme Pie does not clog arteries and does not contain cholesterol. Stay tuned for further updates............
It's all about a culture of fear......
You can bet multiple somebodies are getting rich from this. Time to buy new water bottles any one? :rolleyes:
It's more like some people will get poorer when all them water bottles go unsold,
We used to use over 2 cases a month, Now zero..
Johnny Thunder
12-10-2007, 17:33
If i drink from a Nalgene with a PETA sticker and something about how my body is my temple is that ironic enough for the cool kids club?
(What can be cooked in a freezer bag that can't in a regular pot/cup besides convenience?)
Nearly Normal
12-10-2007, 17:42
[quote=Johnny Thunder;469159]You did. No appologies needed.
I'll just take this opportunity to restate my point.
It took our scientific understanding of this earth hundreds (maybe even thousands) of years to evolve to the point where we understand, without doubt, that tobacco, which has been with our ancestors for thousands of years, is unhealthy.
Tobacco and many other drugs were used in religous rights and cerimonies. Not used addictively or recreationally.
They were not used so frequent to become unhealthy.
Johnny Thunder
12-10-2007, 17:47
Nearly Normal,
Point?
Ancient paintings and drawings have the Mayans smoking tobacco wrapped in what looks like big brown tobacco leaves. Maybe it was coke. I don't know much about them anyway.
Failing that, habitual tobacco use has been with we Westerners since the 1600's which seems long enough to hit my "hundreds (maybe even thousands) of years" statement. Good 'ol Virginia colony. Gotta love them Virginians.
Dances with Mice
12-10-2007, 18:11
... it seems like there are some viable options using materials which have been in our environment for thousands of years. Glass. Metals. Ceramics. I refuse to chose convenience over safety.That knife cuts both ways. Lead is a metal which was used by our ancestors for sealing wine bottles and for water piping. Adds nice properties to glass and ceramic glazes too. Asbestos is a mineral long used for fireproof insulation.
Johnny Thunder
12-10-2007, 18:20
That knife cuts both ways. Lead is a metal which was used by our ancestors for sealing wine bottles and for water piping. Adds nice properties to glass and ceramic glazes too. Asbestos is a mineral long used for fireproof insulation.
Again, maybe we're speaking in different dialects or something. It really seems to me that we are. Because I keep making points about how I'd chose a tried-and-true-proven-by-human-use-and-science over a new material which hasn't been in our environment long enough for significant long-term health problems to surface. And then you keep saying things like how certain substances were found to be unhealthy and that we no longer use them. Which is exactly what might happen to plastic when we've either a. used it long enough to uncover long-term issues or b. evolve our understanding of this substance to understand how it effects organic tissue.
How long have we as a species cooked with plastic? You can pick the flavor of plastic, it doesn't matter to me.
What can be cooked in a freezer bag or stored warm in a plastic cup that couldn't be in a metal or ceramic container?
Nearly Normal,
Point?
Ancient paintings and drawings have the Mayans smoking tobacco wrapped in what looks like big brown tobacco leaves. Maybe it was coke. I don't know much about them anyway.
Failing that, habitual tobacco use has been with we Westerners since the 1600's which seems long enough to hit my "hundreds (maybe even thousands) of years" statement. Good 'ol Virginia colony. Gotta love them Virginians.They've come a long way baby.
Johnny Thunder
12-10-2007, 18:30
Again, maybe we're speaking in different dialects or something. It really seems to me that we are. Because I keep making points about how I'd chose a tried-and-true-proven-by-human-use-and-science over a new material which hasn't been in our environment long enough for significant long-term health problems to surface. And then you keep saying things like how certain substances were found to be unhealthy and that we no longer use them. Which is exactly what might happen to plastic when we've either a. used it long enough to uncover long-term issues or b. evolve our understanding of this substance to understand how it effects organic tissue.
How long have we as a species cooked with plastic? You can pick the flavor of plastic, it doesn't matter to me.
What can be cooked in a freezer bag or stored warm in a plastic cup that couldn't be in a metal or ceramic container?
In a previous post i used the word "viable" which may have confused you. In the context of "there are viable alternatives" I mean viable to be "tried-and-true-proven-by-human-use-and-science". I'm not going to replace a Nalgene for a lead coffee mug. That would be stupid.
Dances with Mice
12-10-2007, 18:42
What can be cooked in a freezer bag or stored warm in a plastic cup that couldn't be in a metal or ceramic container?Nothing and to repeat myself: If you are worried about something then avoid it. Then you have that much less to worry about.
You are worried about all plastics in contact with food, that's fine. I'm not worried about polyethylene or polypropylene in contact with food or hot water.
I agree with JohnnyThunder, Both my wife and I could always taste the plastic from our nalgene bottles, The new stainless steel containers leave no taste whatsoever.
As stated before - Don't store your booze in plastic containers as some will leach into your hootch and give you a nasty hangover.
You can google( leaching and plastics) for more info on this subject..
Skidsteer
12-10-2007, 19:33
As stated before - Don't store your booze in plastic containers as some will leach into your hootch and give you a nasty hangover.
As opposed to what? A cheerful hangover?
You folks can argue about this stuff and I'll be sure to read it 'cause it's entertaining but here's the deal:
How many of you are experts in the field? 'Fess up. I only know for certain of one thus far so let's see some credentials. How many of you have the training to interpret the data?
In the meantime, I'll tend to put more weight on the opinion of the one pro in the thread that I know of; Even if he does have some scary hobbies and hang out with people of low moral character.
Dances with Mice
12-10-2007, 20:17
In the meantime, I'll tend to put more weight on the opinion of the one pro in the thread that I know of; Even if he does have some scary hobbies and hang out with people of low moral character.That is, without a doubt, the stupidest, most boneheaded post on this entire thread.
I have low moral hobbies and hang out with scary characters.
saimyoji
12-10-2007, 20:21
What can be cooked in a freezer bag or stored warm in a plastic cup that couldn't be in a metal or ceramic container?
Hydrofluoric acid. Of course, if you're drinking that stuff you've got bigger problems. :rolleyes:
In the meantime, I'll tend to put more weight on the opinion of the one pro in the thread that I know of; Even if he does have some scary hobbies and hang out with people of low moral character.[/quote]
Lighten up a little, It's a free country and do as you please,Peace...
Skidsteer
12-10-2007, 20:38
That is, without a doubt, the stupidest, most boneheaded post on this entire thread.
I have low moral hobbies and hang out with scary characters.
Cripes! My bad. I always get the two mixed up.
Lighten up a little, It's a free country and do as you please,Peace...
Relax. Lighten up is my Life verse. Found in Ecclesiastes 12:15.
Johnny, you can go retro......pack in a wood bowl and mug combo. Oh sure, it'll be heavy...but hey, it is like all natural and all that :p Ceramic wouldn't be so trail friendly......one jostle...and well, no cup. Well, that and all that pesky lead filled glaze on some import items.....
Why not use Poweraid or Gatoraid bottles instead. That's all I'm saying.
One liter Aqua Fina bottles are best in my opinion.
Dances with Mice
12-10-2007, 23:51
Relax. Lighten up is my Life verse. Found in Ecclesiastes 12:15.Did you know that Ecc 12:15 is carved on a monument in New York City? Corner of 6th Ave and 61st Street.
My version of the Bible has already taken that idea up and omitted that verse entirely.
Franco
For the skipping rodent
He may look like an idiot and talk like an idiot but don't let that fool you. He really is an idiot.
Groucho
nitewalker
12-11-2007, 07:11
so how many of these recycled products are bad for us? i assume just with common sense that the way plastic smells would give away the fact that it is bad. if it burns,melts or smells its got to be bad. its kind of hard to burn glass or ceramic which are the safer products we use..i gave up on nalgenes 5yrs ago and started using the gatorade jugs. mason jars are the way to go if you need to keep something dry or safe..my emergency kit goes in my mason jar along with some other items. i have used the mason jar on my last 6 or so hikes...
Dances with Mice
12-11-2007, 07:20
Did you put a label on it?
"In case of emergency, break glass."
nitewalker
12-11-2007, 07:21
Did you put a label on it?
"In case of emergency, break glass."
LOL!! i never thought of that. im going to print up a label sometime later on...thanks for the thought....:D
Did you put a label on it?
"In case of emergency, break glass."
Plastic Mason Jar?
Twisted today...
As opposed to what? A cheerful hangover?
You folks can argue about this stuff and I'll be sure to read it 'cause it's entertaining but here's the deal:
How many of you are experts in the field? 'Fess up. I only know for certain of one thus far so let's see some credentials. How many of you have the training to interpret the data?
In the meantime, I'll tend to put more weight on the opinion of the one pro in the thread that I know of; Even if he does have some scary hobbies and hang out with people of low moral character.I teach materials science, including polymers so I know my monomers from my copolymers, if that is any good to you. But don't take my word for it. You can interpret posts on a forum for yourself. I will interpret the science for myself.
So does anyone have any data on how much BPA is released from a Lexan Nalgene bottle when you pour a litre of boiling water into one? I haven't come across anything specific yet. That paper I posted was the closest thing and it sort of skirted around the subject. My understanding on something like this is that it is the cummulative dose, from multiple sources, that matters.
I would definitely not paint all plastics with the same brush. If you choose to cut out all plastics altogether and use something like stainless steel instead then obviously that won't hurt, but stainless steels haven't been around much longer than some of the safer forms of plastic, such a 1,2,4,5. I would be most concerned about the plastics such as the polycarbonates that release BPA that act like hormones. Also stuff like PVC obviously.
My advise:
Some plastics are safer than others. Learn your plastics.
nitewalker
12-11-2007, 08:58
So does anyone have any data on how much BPA is released from a Lexan Nalgene bottle when you pour a litre of boiling water into one? I haven't come across anything specific yet. That paper I posted was the closest thing and it sort of skirted around the subject. My understanding on something like this is that it is the cummulative dose, from multiple sources, that matters.
I would definitely not paint all plastics with the same brush. If you choose to cut out all plastics altogether and use something like stainless steel instead then obviously that won't hurt, but stainless steels haven't been around much longer than some of the safer forms of plastic, such a 1,2,4,5. I would be most concerned about the plastics such as the polycarbonates that release BPA that act like hormones. Also stuff like PVC obviously.
My advise:
Some plastics are safer than others. Learn your plastics.
could you kindly give an example of some 1,2,4,5 plastics?
Dances with Mice
12-11-2007, 09:05
could you kindly give an example of some 1,2,4,5 plastics?1 = polyester. 2 & 4 are polyethylenes. 5 is polypropylene.
One liter Aqua Fina bottles are best in my opinion.Thanks for that. I cam across a smaller wide mouthed bottle of theres which I have used, but not with boiling water yet. Nice size and shape though and 600ml I think. I will look for the 1 litre also. I did a boiling water test on the Poweraid and it held up very well, except I think it did shrink slightly because the lid does not fit as tight. This use of PET bottles would not be an issue if I didn't want to pour boiling water in them, but that is how I like to mix and carry my tea. I think for now I will carry one or two PETs but pour the boiling water from my Kelly Kettle into something metal first, either my cup or a corked flask. Also gotta watch out for plastic coatings inside of aluminum and other metals. I think I might try and fashion a pot and a flask out of an aluminum can with something on the outside to strengthen and insulate it.
1 = polyester. 2 & 4 are polyethylenes. 5 is polypropylene.That's right. Something to note however is that these recycling numbers are realy there for the recyclers use, not for our use. They are not a final indication of whether or not something is food grade. The #1, #2, #4, #5 should be safe as long as it was a food or beverage container to begin with, but if you want to pour boiling water into it as I do, or use it for more long term water storage at warmer temperatures, then I think a little more research is warranted. What I have learned however, is that we can no longer trust corporations or affiliated research groups to do our research for us. There was an interview on CBC a while back, which was supposed to make people aware of BPA. Instead it appeared to me to be just another plug for Nalgene and against the re-use of PET. PET does not contain BPA. The spokesperson opened with 'I am not a scientist but' and then went on to shameless plug whatever industry wanted her to plug as though she were an expert. Know your plastics.
Here is the crazy spokesperson lady I was refering to:
http://www.cbc.ca/mrl3/8752/news/features/bisphenol-faq-071121.wmv
In my opinion this was deliberate disinformation. Re-using PET is safer than Lexan.
We need to protect the purity of our bodily fluids against this conspiracy. :)
Dances with Mice
12-11-2007, 09:57
There was an interview on CBC a while back, which was supposed to make people aware of BPA. Instead it appeared to me to be just another plug for Nalgene and against the re-use of PET. Interesting. What do you mean by re-use? Refilling a PETE bottle or recycling? Recycled PETE goes into fiber, bottles are not made with recycled resin.
By re-use I mean refilling. I think we should re-use them as much as we can before we recycle, for the reason you outlined. I find it distressing that this spokesperson, supposedly an environmental spokesperson, would rather us not do so. It's crazy the way we are making an industry out of recycling the way we do. It isn't sustainable.
And all that recycled fibre. Absolute crap. I am yet to find recycled polyester fleece that is any good, meaning non-water absorbing. If you buy good fleece you only need one set and it will last years and years. We should learn to make good fleece out of recycled polyest or not bother. We have to stop recycling some of the crap we do and just stop making so much crap in the first place.
I know I am on a roll here, but we really should stop buying so much bottled water, etc. Perhaps a good rule of thumb is that we should all try and re-use every bottle we buy at least 10 times before we recycle it.
nitewalker
12-11-2007, 10:26
you just said about everthing that was on my mind. i just wasnt about to write it all down..the way you put it is strait up in my opinion..:banana
And all that recycled fibre. Absolute crap. I am yet to find recycled polyester fleece that is any good, meaning non-water absorbing. If you buy good fleece you only need one set and it will last years and years. We should learn to make good fleece out of recycled polyest or not bother. We have to stop recycling some of the crap we do and just stop making so much crap in the first place.
Carpet.
Yes, but it is a functional reuse.
Thanks for that. I cam across a smaller wide mouthed bottle of theres which I have used, but not with boiling water yet. Nice size and shape though and 600ml I think. I will look for the 1 litre also. I did a boiling water test on the Poweraid and it held up very well, except I think it did shrink slightly because the lid does not fit as tight.
You can cut one of the Aqua Fina bottles to use as a cup. A little warm to the touch with boiling water, I normally use my insulated mug with snap on lid.
Little warm? Come on, tell the whole story.
so how many of these recycled products are bad for us? i assume just with common sense that the way plastic smells would give away the fact that it is bad. if it burns,melts or smells its got to be bad.
Well, heck, Kimchi smells horrid, as does Lutefisk but neither of those will kill you.:rolleyes: Bacon will burn and melt also :p
Dances with Mice
12-11-2007, 14:21
Well, heck, Kimchi smells horrid, as does Lutefisk but neither of those will kill you.:rolleyes: Bacon will burn and melt also :pUh, the jury's still out on Lutefisk.
Yes, but it is a functional reuse.Just because it sells, doesn't make it functional. :)
Little warm? Come on, tell the whole story.LOL. You are right. What comes out of the Kelly Kettle is more than just a little warm, and a medium weight PET doesn't insulate the way a heavy Lexan does. Fleece or wool mitts won't stop boiling water also. Definitely some insulation is in order. Also, there needs to be a way for me to stop scalding myself with boiling water. Gotta let that sucker cool somehow before I drink it or try and handle it too much. One way is to add some cold water, which works great with a Kelly Kettle because it makes about 700ml so another 300ml of cold mixed with skim milk powder makes an even litre. That means you need to treat the cold water, but I think scalding it with 700ml of 212F might be enough in most cases. If not, you do the usual song and dance first. Anyhow 700ml x 212F + 300ml x 40F = 160F which is hot enough for the Cryptosporidium I hang out with.
OK. So here is my current plan, for making better tea.
700ml Kelly Kettle
500ml metal mug
1000ml PET bottle x 2
0. Starting with 1000ml of cold treated water in PET bottle.
1. Pour 700ml of cold water from PET into into Kelly Kettle.
2. Get tea ready in metal mug while water comes to boil.
3. Pour 400ml of boiling water onto tea in metal mug to steep tea.
4. Pour remaining 300ml of boiling water into 300ml cold water in PET.
5. Add skim milk powder to PET and mix it up, then add tea once steeped.
6. Fill the other PET with fresh water and hit the trail.
A variation on this for extreme cold winter might be a 1.5 litre wineskin.
700ml Kelly Kettle
500ml Metal Mug
1000ml PET bottle
1500ml Wine Skin
0. Starting with just 1000ml of water in Wine Skin.
1. Pour 700ml of cold water from Wine Skin into into Kelly Kettle.
2. Get tea ready in metal mug while water comes to boil.
3. Pour 400ml of boiling water onto tea in Metal Mug to steep tea.
4. Pour remaining 300ml of boiling water and 300ml skin water into PET.
5. Add skim milk powder to PET and mix it up, then add tea once steeped.
6. Melt snow using Mug if neccessary to refill Kelly Kettle and boil more water.
7. Keep boiling water to melt more snow until Wine Skin is refilled to desired temp.
8. Continue drying mitts or socks or cooking a meal while drinking tea.
9. Once you have had enough tea and refilled PET with Tea and Wineskin with water hit the trail.
I think that is what I will do. One thing I like about this is it is hard to find a PET that nests well in my Mug, but I have another container that nests in Mug that I can use for my tea and skim milk, and perhaps a lighter. So I will have the PET on one side and the Mug and Container on the other side, and the Wineskin slug on my chest. I like to be balanced. I like this setup because I always skiid with a Wineskin when I was younger. Now I just need to find a good wineskin, or make one. I wonder what they are lined with? What is a good plastic that is safe to use as a water carrier and a hot water bottle? Am I back to square one again. :D
Does anyone know what sort of plastic the Nalgene lids are made of?
Uh, the jury's still out on Lutefisk.
Very true :D Not that a person can actually eat that stuff without the natural defense of throwing up occuring :p
Nme on how unsafe Nalgenes are because some goombah in the lifestyles section of the paper said it might be unsafe.
I did not realize gold-chain and track suit wearing men do outdoor columns... :D
To make this thread related, I think we should all buy this bottle:
http://store.theonion.com/i-will-never-take-this-camping-water-bottle-p-110.html
If I dropped $14 on a water jug, I wouldn't want to get it dirty either.
Jim Adams
12-11-2007, 19:28
This is so much horse s**t!!!
Everyone will die sometime...it is inevitable.
If you own and drive a motor vehicle you can pretty much do and use what ever you want and not worry about your health. Driving on a public highway is the most dangerous thing that you do in North America.
When you sell your car and start to walk EVERYWHERE then you can worry about your nalgene.
geek
Plastics that contain BPA are not just hard on the person that drinks from them. They are also hard on the environment. Its an environmental problem, not just a direct health problem.
This is so much horse s**t!!!
Everyone will die sometime...it is inevitable.
If you own and drive a motor vehicle you can pretty much do and use what ever you want and not worry about your health. Driving on a public highway is the most dangerous thing that you do in North America.
When you sell your car and start to walk EVERYWHERE then you can worry about your nalgene.
Can't walk around Harrisburg, the legislators might run you over. :D
This is so much horse s**t!!!
Everyone will die sometime...it is inevitable.
If you own and drive a motor vehicle you can pretty much do and use what ever you want and not worry about your health. Driving on a public highway is the most dangerous thing that you do in North America.
When you sell your car and start to walk EVERYWHERE then you can worry about your nalgene.
geek
Right! What the hell difference does it make if as a male you die with boobs. Half the world population dies with boobs. Besides you may die in a car crash before they have a chance to develop, so why worry.
weary
What if your Nalgene bottle kills someone else?
This exquisite fabric is used for making apparel such as hiking kilts, and carrying a fine scotch on the Appalachian Trail. :)
Good one Smile!!
dessertrat
12-12-2007, 14:48
Nearly Normal,
Point?
Ancient paintings and drawings have the Mayans smoking tobacco wrapped in what looks like big brown tobacco leaves. Maybe it was coke. I don't know much about them anyway.
Failing that, habitual tobacco use has been with we Westerners since the 1600's which seems long enough to hit my "hundreds (maybe even thousands) of years" statement. Good 'ol Virginia colony. Gotta love them Virginians.
Yes, but the cigarette was not common until the 20th century. Cigars and pipes may not be "a safe substitute for cigarettes", but don't let anyone tell you that they are not a heck of a lot safer. Yes, they can give you throat and mouth cancer, but I know a lot of old men who smoke pipes and cigars. I know precious few old cigarette smokers.
On top of that, cigarettes used to be plain old tobacco, rather than tobacco treated with arsenic, benzine, urea, acetone, etc. And people were calling them coffin nails long before the surgeon general said they were dangerous.
My own set of boobs by using a Nalgene? Hmmm.
A study released today:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6TCR-4R5F02G-1&_user=10&_coverDate=01%2F30%2F2008&_rdoc=7&_fmt=summary&_orig=browse&_srch=doc-info(%23toc%235177%232008%23998239997%23677887%23F LA%23display%23Volume)&_cdi=5177&_sort=d&_docanchor=&_ct=9&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=1b909e8aa4bc97f2b046659fdaa0b13e
Rockhound
01-30-2008, 18:33
I like the aquafina bottles myself. they only cost $1.09 & they come prefilled
gldwings1
01-30-2008, 19:24
The Surgeon General has determined that being born is a direct cause of death. If you are reading this, I am not your MD but I will let you know, one day you will die.
paulbrown137
01-30-2008, 19:34
i use the softsided nalgene cantenes made from clear multi layer film and the MSR dromlite bags. I do not put boiling water in them, in fact all i put in them is outside temp water. are these included in the category of plastics that are being debated as harmful?? Is this only the case with boiling water.
The below I do use with boiling water, same question?
White REI insulated mug?
Orikaso folding bowl?
Lexan spork, spoon, knife...etc?
Clear Blue Lexan cup?
Thank You,
Toolshed
01-30-2008, 22:31
Carpet sucks.
I like carpet....:jump:jump:jump