View Full Version : Notice to those thinking of Thru-hiking in 2008!!!
Hammock Hanger
12-08-2007, 15:40
This message was sent to me via the FTA office::mad:
Sorry about this ... we are trying to resolve ... any questions, give Deb a call.
From the Florida Trail Association:
The Seminole Tribe of Florida has not renewed our contract with them for hikers to cross the Big Cypress Seminole Reservation. Effective January 1, hikers MAY NOT CROSS the reservation. We hope to have this mutually resolved as soon as possible. Check back for details prior to your hike or call 1-877-HIKE-FLA for an update.
=====================
Sandra Friend
Communications Director
Florida Trail Association
www.floridatrail.org (http://www.floridatrail.org/)
1-877-HIKE-FLA x15
HH,
Are you privy to any of the details as to why the contract was not renewed?
they let 90000 concert goers party there for four days NYE2000 but they wont let hikers cross.....seems strange
Hammock Hanger
12-08-2007, 15:59
They pull crap every year and make us jump hoops but usually end up signing in the end. Hope that goes again this year. We really need to hike through that stretch. Otherwise it is a long nasty road walk.
The FTA works very hard to keep thing cordial and working with those seperate enities that the trail travels through.
Dirtygaiters
12-08-2007, 16:03
You think that's bad, come to Arizona. Reservation people practically run the state outside of Phoenix. Driving along roads near the Grand Canyon, friends of mine have been stopped and basically robbed on sight...not really, but the Indians demanded some $20 fee for crossing into their reservation which was not marked by signage. The penalty if the fee was not paid was to be hauled into an Indian jail.
What everyone forgets is that the Rez is a Sovern Nation. They pass their own laws and you need permission to go on them or cross. Some tribes post signs at their borders.
Yes, it is their land to do with it what they want, although I can understand this issue is frustrating :)
Hopefully it's resolved soon, and the hiking will continue through there.
Dirtygaiters
12-08-2007, 19:46
What everyone forgets is that the Rez is a Sovern Nation. They pass their own laws and you need permission to go on them or cross. Some tribes post signs at their borders.
JP,
Yes and no. They certainly have the right to make their own laws, govern themselves and deny hikers from going through their lands, but Indian Reservations are not sovereign nations.
Reference:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/index.php/American_Indian_law
Sovreign Nations are tribes, the land has been given to them by the U.S for their use as a SR. They have the right to choose who uses, and who does not use their land.
Until, of course, the blood quantum imposed upon members by the BIA will cause them, inevitably, to be be non-existent in the US Governments eyes.
I hope that they renew their 'contract' so hikers can be happy :)
I believe if you are stopped on the res, you have the right to for the county sheriff to be present-I'd do it.
Hammock Hanger
12-08-2007, 23:13
What everyone forgets is that the Rez is a Sovern Nation. They pass their own laws and you need permission to go on them or cross. Some tribes post signs at their borders.
Signs are posted that state you must have permission to hike through. I'm sure that the powers to be will be able to work it all out.
Nearly Normal
12-08-2007, 23:26
Maybe it's a good thing.
I don't have to hike or spend my money there.
Shane! Come Back!
12-14-2007, 13:54
Maybe it's a good thing.
I don't have to hike or spend my money there.
I picked up a copy of their newspaper on the Seminole res in November. Full page devoted to writings by members incarcerated in state prison, wailing on The Man for penalizing them. Other writings slamming the Bad White Man for giving them such paltry welfare checks all these years, until their casinos turned big money. Some of their "Help Wanted" ads state only those of their race need apply. Racism pukes, no matter which race is engaging in it.:mad:
I don't care to patronize them, either.
CoyoteWhips
12-14-2007, 14:29
Racism pukes, no matter which race is engaging in it.:mad:
I don't care to patronize them, either.
I tend to notice it more when I see it in "them" than when its in "us". The highways of today were horse paths of the last century. What seems like unprovoked hostility can have its roots in what is, for us, buried history.
How many generations should it take to just "get over" near genocide? Even when there's a substantial mix of exploiting unwarranted advantages, sometimes those advantages don't come close to balancing out undeserved oppression.
We live in an aggressive, competitive, often hostile culture. Whatever resources people can draw on to get groceries on the table is often playing the cards they're dealt.
Just a little more background on the Seminoles. They are they only tribe in the country that never gave in to the US military. No peace treaty was ever signed. The Army gave up trying to run them off their land and hundreds of US military died trying. It wasn't until the late 1950's that the US government even recognized them as an Indian Nation. They didn't move onto the "reservation land" that was set aside for them for decades. So they may be historically more stubborn and given to distrust of anything that appears to be demands of outsiders.
Shane! Come Back!
12-14-2007, 18:26
How many generations should it take to just "get over" near genocide?
Ask the Irish who were nearly wiped out on their own island by the British. They spent hundreds of years killing each other. They finally learned that prosperity for Northern Ireland hinged on getting along. Maybe the Seminoles will take a hint.:cool:
eArThworm
12-15-2007, 00:04
HH, Are you privy to any of the details as to why the contract was not renewed?
Sandra Friend posted this on the "Florida Hikes!" forum a couple days ago: "Just to clarify: the reservation closure happened because FTA has a permit that has to be renewed every two years at the end of the year. The Tribal Council didn't have time to get to discussion of the permit at their December meeting, so they've put it off as an agenda item til January. But that means no one can walk across the reservation between Jan 1 and Feb 1 at the earliest. However, if you set foot on the reservation by Dec 31, they are cool with that as long as you already got your permit to cross." Let's hope they "have time" to discuss it in January. Seems like it should go on the agenda SEVERAL months BEFORE the end of the year!
sasquatch2014
12-15-2007, 12:36
We don't ever seem to have issues on the Schagticoke Res in CT and the trail (AT) passes through there. Is there a diffrence in the Corridor or something?
CoyoteWhips
12-15-2007, 13:11
We don't ever seem to have issues on the Schagticoke Res in CT and the trail (AT) passes through there. Is there a diffrence in the Corridor or something?
Reading the Schaghticoke (http://www.schaghticoke.com/index.html) history, just seems like the Seminole Tribe had better lawyers.
sasquatch2014
12-16-2007, 06:02
Reading the Schaghticoke (http://www.schaghticoke.com/index.html) history, just seems like the Seminole Tribe had better lawyers.
Ah that explains it. Warriors in Suits. Why shouldn't they be like everyone else near Kent. :D
Can't imagine catering to white man would be very high on any of the various tribe's list of things to do. That statement shouldn't require an explanation.
However, if there is some money to be had , anyone might cater a little but doubt this to be the case on the Seminole Res pertaining to hikers.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
I believe if you are stopped on the res, you have the right to for the county sheriff to be present-I'd do it.
Might be like the Border Patrol asking to look in the trunk 101 miles from the border. I don't push issues like that.
Ask the Irish who were nearly wiped out on their own island by the British. They spent hundreds of years killing each other. They finally learned that prosperity for Northern Ireland hinged on getting along. Maybe the Seminoles will take a hint.:cool:
That's about 600 years of history tidily wrapped up there.
Shane! Come Back!
12-17-2007, 07:54
Just a little more background on the Seminoles. They are they only tribe in the country that never gave in to the US military. No peace treaty was ever signed. The Army gave up trying to run them off their land and hundreds of US military died trying. It wasn't until the late 1950's that the US government even recognized them as an Indian Nation. They didn't move onto the "reservation land" that was set aside for them for decades. So they may be historically more stubborn and given to distrust of anything that appears to be demands of outsiders.
History with sugar on top, Sonic?
The Seminoles didn’t even exist when the Euros first arrived on our shores. They formed later, as a ragtag group of runaway black slaves and Indians from other tribes who banded together in Florida. (In recent times, the Seminoles tried to re-write history by excising blacks. See NY Times article, "The Seminole Tribe, Running From History," www.racematters.org/seminolesrunningfromhistory.htm (http://www.racematters.org/seminolesrunningfromhistory.htm))
Unconquered by the U.S. Army? At the end of the Seminole wars in 1858, there were only 300 of them left in the Florida swamps, there were no more hostilities, and the writing was on the wall: the young United States was the new government in Florida.
The Seminoles would have been "recognized" earlier by the U.S. except the Seminoles themselves requested a delay, as they weren’t ready (by their own account) to govern themselves. Today they are essentially a corporation run by a board of directors.
Bottom line, I don’t like politics with my hiking, so they have lost me as one of their well-wishers. Especially since FTAs Footprint magazine recently did a big spread on them -- a huge gesture of goodwill-- promoting their commercial enterprises.
This thread is not about the history of the Seminoles. It's teetering into the political realm. So as the forum moderator, I am asking you all to kindly refrain from that discussion line. Please stick to discussing the Florida Trail or take it to the politics forum.
Thank you!
Gray Blazer
12-17-2007, 08:38
I'm going to Chipley after Christmas. Any nice sections that anybody wants to recommend around there on the FT?
Gray Blazer:
That's not too far from Eglin AFB. A new section of the Florida Trail is apparently open in Eglin. If you haven't hiked in Eglin, I recommend it! It's beautiful.
Gray Blazer
12-17-2007, 09:02
I'll check it out. Thanks. Anybody else?
Shane! Come Back!
12-17-2007, 09:06
The Florida Trail in the Apalachicola Natl Forest gets my vote for wilderness beauty.
www.dep.state.fl.us/gwt/guide/regions/panhandleeast/trails/apalachicola.htm (http://www.dep.state.fl.us/gwt/guide/regions/panhandleeast/trails/apalachicola.htm)
Drive time Chipley to Bristol (stepping off point to Camel Lake) about one hour.
Chipley is situated near all kinds of gorgeous Panhandle hiking outside the Florida Trail system, too.:sun
Gray Blazer
12-17-2007, 09:50
Any hilly sections near Chipley?
Shane! Come Back!
12-17-2007, 10:45
MOWGLI16: "This thread is not about the history of the Seminoles. It's teetering into the political realm. So as the forum moderator, I am asking you all to kindly refrain from that discussion line. Please stick to discussing the Florida Trail or take it to the politics forum.Thank you!"
No rule violations intended. Sorry. :datz
Any hilly sections near Chipley?
Not sure of hilly sections of the FT near Chipley, unless in the region of Blackwater River State Park (Juniper Trail?) Torreya State Park (not within FT) has a loop trail :D if you’re up to it:D called the Torreya Challenge. Not far from Torreya is the Nature Conservancy’s "Apalachicola Bluffs and Ravines Preserve / Garden of Eden Trail." Bring your Vit I and enjoy!
Note about Eglin hikes: speaking of rules, this requires special handling, not suitable for spur-of-the-moment hiking. You have to get an Eglin Recreation Permit, $5, from Eglin Natural Resources Branch, 107 Hwy 85 North, Niceville, FL 32578, (850) 882-4164. Overnight campers also need a camping permit. FT thru-hikers, however, don’t need these permits but instead must have an official letter from FTA confirming their status as a thru-hiker and listing approx. dates of travel within Eglin. Everyone hiking in Eglin must fill out a hiker registration card at the trailhead kiosk, and carry proof of ID.... (whew,gasp! :eek: )
Note about Eglin hikes: speaking of rules, this requires special handling, not suitable for spur-of-the-moment hiking. You have to get an Eglin Recreation Permit, $5, from Eglin Natural Resources Branch, 107 Hwy 85 North, Niceville, FL 32578, (850) 882-4164. Overnight campers also need a camping permit. FT thru-hikers, however, don’t need these permits but instead must have an official letter from FTA confirming their status as a thru-hiker and listing approx. dates of travel within Eglin. Everyone hiking in Eglin must fill out a hiker registration card at the trailhead kiosk, and carry proof of ID.... (whew,gasp! :eek: )
You also have to view a short video about unexploded ordinance before you can backpack/camp in Eglin.
sasquatch2014
12-17-2007, 11:18
Do they also suggest that if you hear a long whistling sound coming from over head that you duck and cover?
Do they also suggest that if you hear a long whistling sound coming from over head that you duck and cover?
I hiked there 3 years ago. So I forget. Not a bad idea. I heard plenty of explosions in 45 miles. One explosion sounded close, but I have no idea how close it actually was.
Gray Blazer
12-17-2007, 11:25
Good stuff. people. Thankyou.
Shane! Come Back!
12-17-2007, 12:15
Do they also suggest that if you hear a long whistling sound coming from over head that you duck and cover?
Nah, Sasquatch, nothing as definitive as that.
A rather weak "should be okay" shouts out at me from Skeemer’s 2007 Florida Trail Journal: "I call Eglin AFB to notify them of my expected arrival. The lady on the phone says there is bombing going on all week in the afternoons south of the trail. At first she thinks I'll have a problem, but later says I should be okay..."
www.trailjournals.com/text/list.cfm?id=5072 (http://www.trailjournals.com/text/list.cfm?id=5072)
Gray Blazer
12-18-2007, 10:00
Someone mentioned in another thread that the FT was ugly. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Here are a cupla scenes from the FT that I thought were nice. I've got a cupla more in my WB gallery.
Boy, did the direction of this thread's topic stray way off to the side...
So, did the Seminoles sign the agreement with FTA to allow hikers to cross or not???
the goat
08-23-2008, 18:34
it's tragic that after their wholesale slaughter, stealing of their land, rape of their culture, these selfish native americans won't let hikers traipse through the small plot of land that the u.s. gov sequestered them to.:rolleyes:
Hammock Hanger
08-23-2008, 20:09
Boy, did the direction of this thread's topic stray way off to the side...
So, did the Seminoles sign the agreement with FTA to allow hikers to cross or not???
Yes, it was signed for the 2008 season but will need to be re-signed for the 2009, 10, 11... It is a yearly lease.
Pedaling Fool
08-23-2008, 20:44
You also have to view a short video about unexploded ordinance before you can backpack/camp in Eglin.
Ordinance - A legislative enactment of the governing body of a city, town or other local unit.
Ordnance - A military term for combat equipment, mainly weapons, ammunition and material closely associated with their use.