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RagingHampster
12-11-2003, 16:10
Ok guys/gals, I know most of you like your internal frames, but I just plain love my external frame... everything but the pack itself. I love how an external frame is so rigid, and is held off your back.

Like all backpacks, it has problems with getting soaked in the rain/snow. Even when I use a packcover, the bag gets wet on the back where the mesh holds it from my back. It's also a pain in the you know what when you need something at the bottom of the bag when it's pouring out. There's also alot of crap on it I don't need, and god only knows the point of bags within bags.

So here is what I'm going to make. Using the frame and suspension from a Camp Trails Adjustable III, I'm going to make two thin fiberglass brackets with slots attatched vertically to the frame, kind of like two mini skis spaced 8 inches apart that are riveted to the frame. To those, I can add 3-5 Outdoor Research Advanced Hydroseal Stuffsacks depending on my capacity needs. Most of the time it will be 4, adding the fifth for food on weeklong hikes. I'm going to use the 9" x 17" sacks (1100ci), meaning 3300-5500ci.

Everything will be easy to get to, you can use one of them as a food bag, everything will be waterproof (except suspension padding), and it should weigh around 4-4.5lbs depending on how many sacks your using.

We'll see how it turns out!

DebW
12-11-2003, 16:44
I don't understand the point of the fiberglass brackets. They must be to attach the bags to the frame, though I'm not visualizing what you mean. But anyway, sounds like a reasonable idea. The hydroseal bags are waterproof and sturdy. They probably mount horizontally, so you can open one in the rain without it filling with water. Sounds somewhat like the Gearskin if you put everything in 9x17 stuff sacks. And the good thing is you're not limited to a certain capacity like an internal frame pack would be. I believe that Brawny used an external frame with stuff sacks tied on for her early PCT trek. Maybe you could bounce the idea off of her. Here's the URL for her packless frame description:

http://www.trailquest.net/BRpackless.html

Streamweaver
12-11-2003, 17:53
I don't understand the point of the fiberglass brackets. They must be to attach the bags to the frame, though I'm not visualizing what you mean. But anyway, sounds like a reasonable idea. The hydroseal bags are waterproof and sturdy. They probably mount horizontally, so you can open one in the rain without it filling with water. Sounds somewhat like the Gearskin if you put everything in 9x17 stuff sacks. And the good thing is you're not limited to a certain capacity like an internal frame pack would be. I believe that Brawny used an external frame with stuff sacks tied on for her early PCT trek. Maybe you could bounce the idea off of her. Here's the URL for her packless frame description:

http://www.trailquest.net/BRpackless.html

Luxurylite.com (http://luxurylite.com/) Not a bad Idea considering Valcour is getting $600.00+ a pop for a system like you describe!! Streamweaver

RagingHampster
12-12-2003, 13:03
Hahaha! I guess someone has already made something similar. Mine will be a bit different though, with a tougher frame, more comfortable suspension, and customizable storage. I'd also trust an OR drybag more than one of those waterproofed packcloth bags.

I plan to spend way less than $650 too... :p

As for the fiberglass "skis", they will be two strips of fiberglass about 2.5" wide, and 28" long. I will mold slots into them horizontally to pass nylon straps through to hold the drybags. They will be mounted vertically to the frame as mounting strips.

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Kind of like that, but the strips will be farther apart, and the strap slots further apart. Then once these are mounted to the frame, you can simply lash the drybags to them using the drybags, daisy chains.

RagingHampster
12-17-2003, 11:46
Well I stripped the "pack" off my frame and suspension, have everything measured up, and 3 more OR Hydroseal Drybags on the way. I should have it all together by this weekend!

(can't wait!)

tlbj6142
12-17-2003, 12:16
Someone has photos of a sub-1# External frame on in the backpackinglight yahoo group photo folders. I'll give you link in a minute.

Damn it! I can't find it now. I swear it was part of that groups photos. Maybe it was part of the hammockcamping group (I no longer subscribe).

Any way, this guy built one first with AL angle beams. I think it weighed 2#. Then, it built a similar pack frame using the lightweight AL tent poles for the vertical members, but thiner angle beams for the outer frame. I'm fairly certain it was a sub-1# pack frame (excluding the shoulder and hip straps). It looked great. Maybe a quick google will turn something up.

Streamweaver
12-17-2003, 14:04
DJs Frame Pack (http://www.backpacking.net/makegear/dj-pack/index.html) << It wasnt this pack was it??

RagingHampster
12-17-2003, 14:28
LOL! :p :p :p

Boy does that thing look uncomfortable!

Hahaha!

Thank god for HYOH!

tlbj6142
12-18-2003, 10:44
DJs Frame Pack (http://www.backpacking.net/makegear/dj-pack/index.html) << It wasnt this pack was it??Nope. It looked a bit more "professional" than that one. The pictures only showed the frame without gear and straps.

MDSHiker
12-18-2003, 10:51
I took a Jansport external frame backpack and removed the "pack" from the frame. Then filled up two silnylon stuff sacks with all my gear and then strapped them to the frame. I used it a few times and it actually wasn't bad...just looked goofy has heck. I like the concept but missed all those pockets.

RagingHampster
12-19-2003, 15:22
Thats essentially what I'm in the process of doing MDS...

I for one am going to enjoy not lugging around all those off shaped protrusions called "pockets"... :dance

RagingHampster
12-20-2003, 17:21
Well I just got all the OR Drybags in, and picked up 6 more quick-release buckle straps from Wal-Mart. I'm now debating on the design to attatch the bags to to the frame. I'd like the bags to mount as rigid as possible, reducing sway, and eliminating the chance one might come undone.

Looking good so far though!

LBJ
12-21-2003, 22:31
Wow! This is one of those "why didn't I think if this" things that drives me crazy. I tried this out with my old Kelty Tioga frame and four stuff sacks and loved it. Right now I plan to start my thru hike with this system. Thanks RH and Brawny!!. I have bought a Gregory Whitney($350), a GVP4($80), and a UL2($225) in the past year, when I had the answer for free in my forgotten gear!

tlbj6142
12-25-2003, 16:56
I found the photos of the frames I mentioned earlier in this thread. They are in the Yahoo! group "MakeGear" photo album. If you can't find them, let me know I'll d/l them and post them here.

The moderator of that Yahoo! group is the person who made them.

LBJ
12-25-2003, 21:15
let me know I'll d/l them and post them here.
Hey Yellow Jacket,
Please post the photos, I would like to see them! The reason I tried this is that I have not found a pack as comfortable as my external frame Kelty, but like Rh, I had problems keeping things dry in it without using waterproof bags in addition to the packbag. I got a new blaze-orange colored waterproof stuffsack for Christmas that looks pretty good. It's not an OR bag, but from a company called WXtex. You can blow it up like a bladder if you want to after putting your gear in.
Thanks,

tlbj6142
12-25-2003, 21:33
I put them in my gallery...

http://www.whiteblaze.net/gallery/showgallery.php?cat=500&ppuser=681

Streamweaver
12-25-2003, 22:58
I put them in my gallery...

http://www.whiteblaze.net/gallery/showgallery.php?cat=500&ppuser=681

That frame dont look very comfortable either! It looks like a window frame lol
Maybe if he got rid of the vertical supports and had just a couple horizontal supports and added some mesh for a back back band it might be more user freindly. That way it would also be away from the back somewhat allowing air to circulate like a regular frame. Streamweaver

tlbj6142
12-25-2003, 23:04
I can't tell which way it sits on our back, is the bottom "L" part against your hips, or does it point out? Unfortunatley, he doesn't show any pictures with the hipbelt, shoulder straps and "pack bag(s)" in place, so I have no real way to judge its aparent comfort level. If I ever see "loaded" pics, I'll update the thread.

BTW, he also has a pulk/sled/frame combo as well. It let's him "wear" the sled as a pack frame if he chooses.

Streamweaver
12-25-2003, 23:09
I can't tell which way it sits on our back, is the bottom "L" part against your hips, or does it point out? Unfortunatley, he doesn't show any pictures with the hipbelt, shoulder straps and "pack bag(s)" in place, so I have no real way to judge its aparent comfort level. If I ever see "loaded" pics, I'll update the thread.

BTW, he also has a pulk/sled/frame combo as well. It let's him "wear" the sled as a pack frame if he chooses.

It looks like he has them sitting up ,at what I guess is the bottom there is a curved support on each side that looks to me like it would be where the belt will go so it curves around the hips . Just guessing tho lol Streamweaver

tlbj6142
12-25-2003, 23:12
He frame really doesn't look that bad. Check out this kelty frame (http://www.kelty.com/Kelty/index.cfm?fuseaction=Packs.ShowProduct&type=pack&ID=63) it looks about the same. Though it shows the hipbelt, shoulder straps and back mesh in place.

gardenville
12-26-2003, 02:46
Your talking about my Pack frames. I am still learning how to sew and haven't decided what I want the Bag part for those two frames to look like yet. I am working on the Pack Bags for the Pack Frame/Sled first as I want to try it in the snow somewhere this season. As far as the other 2 frames go, the lighter one will use the 4 upright supports like pack stays. They will be sewn into the pack bag. This Pack will be a part of an ultra-lite setup for a summer AT Thru-Hike of 100 trail days, more or less. I want to keep the pack bag off my back as it has to be much cooler. I expect the finished pack frame, straps, and bag to be in the 16oz range maybe a little less. The model for the first frame was an old Army Ruck Sack frame that I have. The second frame was trying to make the 1st one even lighter.

mvenable
12-28-2003, 01:35
Your talking about my Pack frames. I am still learning how to sew and haven't decided what I want the Bag part for those two frames to look like yet. I am working on the Pack Bags for the Pack Frame/Sled first as I want to try it in the snow somewhere this season. As far as the other 2 frames go, the lighter one will use the 4 upright supports like pack stays. They will be sewn into the pack bag. This Pack will be a part of an ultra-lite setup for a summer AT Thru-Hike of 100 trail days, more or less. I want to keep the pack bag off my back as it has to be much cooler. I expect the finished pack frame, straps, and bag to be in the 16oz range maybe a little less. The model for the first frame was an old Army Ruck Sack frame that I have. The second frame was trying to make the 1st one even lighter.

Hi,

I'm looking for a frame without a pack. Want to hang stuff on the frame without a pack. You have a source for your frames?

Thanks,

gardenville
12-28-2003, 01:48
Hi,

I'm looking for a frame without a pack. Want to hang stuff on the frame without a pack. You have a source for your frames?

Thanks,

Hi,
To make sure we are talking about the same pack frames. Post #16 this thread, Yellow Jacket put 2 pictures of my pack frames in his Photo album. It these are what you are talking about?? I made both of them. You might say that I am the "source" for the frames.

Sand Crab
12-28-2003, 11:31
Hi,

I'm looking for a frame without a pack. Want to hang stuff on the frame without a pack. You have a source for your frames?

Thanks,
Check out military surplus stores for Alice pack frames, or try yard sales for old worn out external frame packs.

gardenville
05-30-2004, 13:54
I am glad to see a new interest in the External Frame Pack. I added a bunch of pictures of what I have been making. Two Ultra-light (stripped frames at 6 and 7oz) and one that is both a Sled and a Pack Frame (at 3 pounds). They are located under Gardenville in the "My Gallery" section here.

tlbj6142
05-30-2004, 16:31
What weight of sil-nylon are you using? It looks thicker than 1.1, but it could be because it is black. What type of seam do you sew when connecting sections/panels of the packbag? Just a simple single straight seam or something fancier like a felled, mock-felled or a French seam?

gardenville
05-30-2004, 17:10
The pack you see with the frame was made out of scrap 1.9 ripstop left over from other things. I also had a small piece of something heavier that I used in the bottom panel. That stuff was from a old stuff sack. All seams are folded 2 times like a standard hem and then sewed to the next piece to hid the edge of the ripstop or what ever I am using. The load bearing seams are usually sewn 3 times or reinforced with Grosgrain, nylon bias tape or a zipzag stitch.

The bag part weighs 7.9oz. the straps 2oz. the frame with the small hip belt is 7.9oz for a total of 17.8oz for the complete set-up.

This pack bag was made to check my pattern for the real one. The "for real" pack bag will use .5oz or .7oz sailmaker spinnaker material. I have a bunch of both weights and haven't decided which I will use yet. I will also replace the boot lace cord with spectra cord and have a couple ideas where I can save a few more grams. The hip belt will be different and use a lighter buckle and I am looking for lighter cord loc's. I just want everything to weigh less than 16oz and I don't think that will be a problem.

If I ever decide to sew a tarp I will worry about learning how to sew a "fancier" seam.

luxlite
06-07-2004, 00:50
Luxurylite.com (http://luxurylite.com/) Not a bad Idea considering Valcour is getting $600.00+ a pop for a system like you describe!! Streamweaver

Website says $295.

Luxlite