Bear Smart

[saimyoji]

Stumbled on this website today. Seems like a good resource.

I like this like though:

If an attack is prolonged or the bear starts eating you, it is no longer being defensive.

http://www.bearsmart.com/backcountryManners/Attack.html

[dessertrat]

True dat. Bears are a fairly intelligent animal. This means they may behave in any number of ways, for any number of reasons. While very rarely aggressive, they can on rare occasions be dangerous and even predatory (i.e., viewing you as food). What prevents this behavior, usually, is the bear's natural diet (not humans) and natural caution. (It does not know that it can beat you in a fight, or that you are afraid of it-- so don't let it know that).

[BigStu]

If an attack is prolonged or the bear starts eating you, it is no longer being defensive. - that's a wonderful No S**t Sherlock statement

Seriously... not ever having been in a situation where I have had to encounter bears, rattlesnakes etc the advice and suggestions that I am picking up from WB for my planned trip is really helpful

Thank you ;)

[dessertrat]

And I think the advice here is generally correct-- bears are not a big risk in the Eastern part of the United States, though one should follow the "standard advice" around them at all times. The page linked to here is generally standard advice. When are you coming to the States, BigStu?

[BigStu]

Coming over mid-April to do some hiking before going down to Merlefest

Last year was first trip to the US and I was knocked out by the beauty of NC and decided that if I came back (and I am) that I should at least set foot on the AT and walk a part of it.

Winter months are being spent getting myself prepared as much as I can and the stuff that I have learned on WB over the past few days has helped enormously.

There are some excellent photographers here as well :)

[wrongway_08]

I would hope that all backpackers would know this without needing to read that article, its all common sense.

[Montego]

S'pose if we all had "common sense" we wouldn't be a hiking a 2,175 mile trail. Come on May, hurry up 'n get here.

[BigStu]

I would hope that all backpackers would know this without needing to read that article, its all common sense.

For me...the thing is, we don't have much experience of dealing with bear encounters in the UK - I don't know if that's a good thing or not.

As you suggest, if you grow up in an area where such potential dangers are a natural part of your environment then I would agree that this would probably be second nature - for me I have to learn as much as I can from those that know better.

I am living proof that you are never too old to learn :D

[Bootstrap]

One of the big recommendations on the Bear Smart site is to carry bear spray.

Is the risk high enough that I should just do that? I have to admit that $37.00 and 11 ounces, plus One More Thing in my pack don't make me enthusiastic.

Is bear bagging and common sense sufficient, or do I need this stuff?

Jonathan

[NICKTHEGREEK]

Bear Attacks Their Causes and Avoidance by Stephen Herrero is a pretty good book on the subject.

[dessertrat]

I would hope that all backpackers would know this without needing to read that article, its all common sense.

It's not at all common sense. It is, in the United States, common *knowledge* for people who spend a lot of time in the woods, but it is not common sense. Common sense doesn't tell you what a bear's inclinations are when it first sees you. It is something we know by having been told, or by experience, or both. I don't think there are a lot of wild bears in the UK, especially not those known as Ursus AMERICANUS.

[wrongway_08]

One of the big recommendations on the Bear Smart site is to carry bear spray.

Is the risk high enough that I should just do that? I have to admit that $37.00 and 11 ounces, plus One More Thing in my pack don't make me enthusiastic.

Is bear bagging and common sense sufficient, or do I need this stuff?

Jonathan

Bear bagging and common sense are enough, no need to haul that spray around. If it makes you feel safer - go for it, maybe you'll get lucky and find a thief or mugger to use it on while hiking.

[dessertrat]

One of the big recommendations on the Bear Smart site is to carry bear spray.

Is the risk high enough that I should just do that? I have to admit that $37.00 and 11 ounces, plus One More Thing in my pack don't make me enthusiastic.

Is bear bagging and common sense sufficient, or do I need this stuff?

Jonathan

I think they make it a big recommendation because the site is created by a manufacturer of bear spray.

[BigStu]

no need to haul that spray around.... maybe you'll get lucky and find a thief or mugger to use it on while hiking.

Maybe I'll get one for the Tube in London when the City Boys go into their feeding frenzies when they are about to pick up their bonuses :banana

[saimyoji]

The site is Canadian and directed primarily at Whistler in British Colombia, where there are both Black and Grizz. They state very clearly the difference in dealing with the two.

Black bears: common sense about wild animals should work.
Grizz: need more than common sense. Unless you are Chuck Norris. :D

[wrongway_08]

S'pose if we all had "common sense" we wouldn't be a hiking a 2,175 mile trail. Come on May, hurry up 'n get here.


:D ......it just magnifies the fact we are a fun bunch.......:D

[superman]

We used to have a couple cabins on Moosehead Lake in Maine. The big excitement on Saturday nights was to go to the local dump. Most people would just drive up to the edge of the trash and sit in their cars as they watched the bears feeding. On one occasion there were a couple guys from NYC there. They were so drunk they could bearly stand up. They had cameras and wanted to get some close up pictures of the bears. So, they went walking out through the trash, where the bears were feeding on garbage, stuck the cameras right in front of the bears faces and took a picture. The flash was bright, the bears were startled and stood up, the two guys just stood there wobbling back and forth. Everyone held there breath waiting to see what was going to happen. Nothing, the bears just went back to eating, the drunk guys took some more pictures but not as close and stumbled back out of the trash.

[BigStu]

The only fault I could find was the missing Limey-specific action that should read:

"If you are a Limey and have never encountered a bear of any size or description outside of a zoo, find a convenient moment to "pack" your shorts in a very swift and nasty fashion"

[superman]

Maybe I'll get one for the Tube in London when the City Boys go into their feeding frenzies when they are about to pick up their bonuses :banana
Can you translate that last sentence into non-english for me? lol, I don't know what you mean about city boys having a feeding frenzie or picking up their bonus?

[BigStu]

Can you translate that last sentence into non-english for me? lol, I don't know what you mean about city boys having a feeding frenzie or picking up their bonus?

Sorry.... in the City of London (close to where I work) we have a breed of very brash, rude & arrogant young men (mostly) who work in City financial institutions and who routinely 'earn' obscenely large bonuses for making loads of money for people who already have loads of money

Sometimes their behaviour can get 'out of hand'... maybe bear spray is the answer

(PS: I don't have a problem with them earning what they earn so much as a problem with their rudeness toward everybody but themselves ;) )

[superman]

Sorry.... in the City of London (close to where I work) we have a breed of very brash, rude & arrogant young men (mostly) who work in City financial institutions and who routinely 'earn' obscenely large bonuses for making loads of money for people who already have loads of money

Sometimes their behaviour can get 'out of hand'... maybe bear spray is the answer

(PS: I don't have a problem with them earning what they earn so much as a problem with their rudeness toward everybody but themselves ;) )
Thanks, I would not have guessed that's what it meant. Two countries seperated by a common language.

[BigStu]

My apologies, Superman

As my school reports said 'Must try harder' :(

[superman]

My apologies, Superman

As my school reports said 'Must try harder' :(
LMAO, It's not you, it's me. I'm just not good at foreign languages.:D

[Newb]

In my last few bear encounters I always smelled them first.

In SNP this last summer my friend and I both commented on the sudden appearance of a skunky, very unique odor. About 2 minutes later a small black bear ran around our left side and crossed the trail in front of us (at full gallop).

A few weeks later at the road crossing north of Jim and Molly Denton shelter we noticed the same smell but never saw a bear. On our way back from the shelter in the same area (but a little south of it) we noticed the smell again. This time we saw the culprit....a black bear was digging at something about 25 yards off the trail.

Then it ate us. Not really. I never felt threatened in either encounter. In the first case I would say the bear was scared poopless.

[4eyedbuzzard]

Just give them the respect do a large wild animal. Keep your distance, don't sleep with your food, dirty cookware, etc. Read up on and understand how to behave if you have a close encounter. Both mama bears and rogue males can be dangerous. They are big, strong and incredibly fast(even downhill - don't believe dead wive's tales that you can outrun one downhill), but they aren't out there hunting for human flesh.

[RadioFreq]

(posted this on another bear thread, but it bears repeating)

http://www.chron.com/apps/comics/showComic.mpl?date=2001/5/3&name=Non_Sequitur_pan (http://www.chron.com/apps/comics/showComic.mpl?date=2001/5/3&name=Non_Sequitur_pan)

[mark.k.watson]

One of the big recommendations on the Bear Smart site is to carry bear spray.

Is the risk high enough that I should just do that? I have to admit that $37.00 and 11 ounces, plus One More Thing in my pack don't make me enthusiastic.

Is bear bagging and common sense sufficient, or do I need this stuff?

Jonathan

On the AT I would not carry the spray as I feel that the chance of having a negative bear encounter is about as remote as anything.
On trails elsewere, ie Grand Teton, Yellowstone NPs. Wouldn't leave the trailhead with out it. I never carried it till I was out hunting one night near Jackson, Wyo.
My dad and I were bow hunting elk and came upon a dead steer that was 99 percent consumed. We made a mental note of the location. As we were heading out coyotes that were yipping suddenly stopped. We didn't think anything of it.
As we neard the kill site we began talking louder, breaking sticks and letting ourselves be known to any critters around. We stopped and glassed the site and saw nothing. As we continued on, I saw a big stump by the side of the trail that I didn't remember. I glassed it and realized this was no stump, and that we were only 15 yards away.
I hollered that it was a bear. It woofed and turned up the hill and we could immediately see the dished face and large hump on its back. Yup Griz!!! Yikes.
The next day we went to town and got the spray.
To give you an idea of how effective it is, my dad, a couple years later, did a quick test spray. It worked ... he went back into the garage and did whatever for about 15 minutes. He started back to the house and walked through the area where he had sprayed. It dang near leveled him.
The only time I have pulled my spray out was for a bull moose that was getting way too close.

[Bear Cables]

[quote=Newb;472328]In my last few bear encounters I always smelled them first.

In SNP this last summer my friend and I both commented on the sudden appearance of a skunky, very unique odor.

My hiking buddy who has more experience than I told me about the smell. When we smell that skunky smell we start singing "The Bear Went Over the Mountain" loudly :eek:

[mudhead]

Moose, deer, and porcupines all can have a very unique odor.

Probably other animals you want to give space to have strong odors, but these come to mind.

I know I am more concerned about moose than black bear.

[ofthearth]

Found the below(from the web site) rather interesting. But someone said something about a spray company supporting this site.

Although common sense might suggest that guns would provide greater personal protection than bear pepper spray, research and experience are showing the opposite. Research suggests that human-bear encounters involving firearms are more likely to result in injury to humans and bears. Evidence is suggesting that law enforcement agents and experienced hunters who use firearms to defend themselves suffer injury about 50% of the time, while people defending themselves with bear spray escape injury most of the time and the injuries that occur are less severe (Herrero 2002, U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service 2005).

[ofthearth]

Thanks, I would not have guessed that's what it meant. Two countries seperated by a common language.

Maybe this will help.
The English to American Dictionary
http://english2american.com/dictionary/realbook.html

[SunnyWalker]

Statistically, there are more attacks on humans by moose then by bear, in North America, each year.

[minnesotasmith]

One of the big recommendations on the Bear Smart site is to carry bear spray.

Is the risk high enough that I should just do that? I have to admit that $37.00 and 11 ounces, plus One More Thing in my pack don't make me enthusiastic.

Is bear bagging and common sense sufficient, or do I need this stuff?

Jonathan

Not for bears, though, but for dogs. IMO you're over 1000x as likely to be injured by dogs as by bears when thruhiking the AT. I saw around 10 bears during my thruhike, and they immediately ran away all but one time. (That was a mother with cubs; they ran, she just stood her ground, and I retreated.) Dogs -- at least 1 in 5 loose dogs on the AT in my experience will be threatening. As some sections in good weather you'll see multiple loose dogs a day, well, you do the math.

The more remote sections of the AT, or when hiking in winter, IMO you can forgo the bear spray.

[minnesotasmith]

Bear Attacks Their Causes and Avoidance by Stephen Herrero is a pretty good book on the subject.

Mark of the Grizzly: True Stories of Recent Bear Attacks and the Hard Lessons Learned: by Scott McMillion

I own and have read this one. Although aimed at browns, many of the lessons apply to minimizing trouble with black bears as well. Who would've known that the gut piles from game are what bears really want, that if you field-dress your kill and move it 200 yards away, you've cut your bear encounter odds by 80%?

[slow]

Black's will run almost always.Here in fl it's the big boar you fear.I would even put them up aganist a grizz due to skin and being pissed.

[Ramble~On]

Black's will run almost always.Here in fl it's the big boar you fear.I would even put them up aganist a grizz due to skin and being pissed.

--I haven't heard of many people being killed by boar.
I've often thought of what would happen if boar started to associate hikers with Snickers Bars:-? Boar aren't dumb...it's only a matter of time.
They can smell your foodbag and they will be coming to collect!
Once the feast is on their numbers will swell and the added nutrition will make them grow. Hogzilla's will take over the mountains and no Snicker's Bar will be safe. It'll be bad... Very Bad.
Only the lucky few who have Chuck Norris as a hiking partner will be safe.

[sofaking]

no pig is getting my snickers...

[Ramble~On]

no pig is getting my snickers...


You're hiking with Chuck ?

[sofaking]

i sent chuck home, he whined too much

[trouthunter]

boot strap,
keeping bear spray in your pack is a waste of $37
Not saying you should or shouldn't carry it, but if you do, have it handy.
This is the biggest mistake most people make with things they "might need"

Big stu, maybe it would be the answer, people here like that too, although most people here are very friendly.

[trouthunter]

minnesotasmith,

I do a good bit of trout fishing as you might guess.
I clean my fish as I catch them while I'm still wading in the water, I let the guts go downstream. Fish "keep" longer without the entrails.
I never clean fish on the bank, and cleaning fish at your campsite is retarded, but people do it.

[minnesotasmith]

boot strap,
keeping bear spray in your pack is a waste of $37
Not saying you should or shouldn't carry it, but if you do, have it handy.
This is the biggest mistake most people make with things they "might need"

Big stu, maybe it would be the answer, people here like that too, although most people here are very friendly.

REI sells several very helpful holsters for your bear spray:

http://www.rei.com/product/722003
http://www.rei.com/product/694797

I like the second one, the chest holster, myself.

[wideload]

Two quick stories about bear in SNP.
Back at the (er hem!) beginning of the last quarter of the 20th century at the beginning of the backpacking craze my father and I did a three day hike in SNP. One night we set up right beside the trail (wrong!) cooked and ate dinner and barely cleaned our dishes because of a lack of water which we left outside the tent(wrong!). Sure enough, about three in the morning I woke up to the sound of a bear moving carefully behind the tent. Ignorance of the rules and common sense paid off! I woke up Dad. He grew up in Colorado back in the twenties and thirties. He listened, shrugged and went back to sleep. "Only a blackie", he said. The bear in fact was just cutting around the back of the tent and and continued on down the trail. It took me a while to fall back to a fitfull sleep.
So I learned about keeping a clean camp and obeying the rules about not camping right next to the night interstate for bears also known as the Trail.
The last story was three years ago when I was heading north solo from Rockfish in July. It was hot! I was walking through a high, grassy section on (naturally) Bear Den Mountain. Remember the scene in the second Jurassic Park movie about the attack in the high grass? I was walking along through the high grass wondering what kind of tick harvest I would have when I smelled something very bad. My hackles went up and I stopped. Nothing. The Leki poles seemed suddenly very insubstantial. I slowly started backing up and had moved about ten feet back when a large animal went gallumphing away to the left. It was a bear and seemed as big as a VW beetle but that was just the adrenaline talking.
It could have easily taken me. If I was a deer it probably would have.
Anyhow, it isn't Disney out there and you have to respect wild animals but if you use common sense ( I wasn't covered in honey and didn't have my pockets filled with Spam and most importantly, didn't crowd the bear) and obey the commonsense rules most bears will leave you alone even when you are in a vulnerable spot.

[canoehead]

Has anyone sprayed the stuff they use?
Did it work?
Or did it just drift back at you on the breeze and leave you gasping for breath & disoriented also?