View Full Version : Which Guidebooks?
What are the latest opinions on which guidebook(s) to take on a thru-hike? The last poll that I found on the subject was in 2005 and talked about improvements to the upcomming Companion, which now seems pretty comprehensive. Does anyone really take or need the section guides?
Frolicking Dinosaurs
12-14-2007, 11:20
lease see the discussion in these threads:
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=30105
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=30558
max patch
12-14-2007, 11:22
I'd take the thru-hikers handbook which can be ordered at trailplace.com. Its the original and and still the best.
As far as the atc state guidebooks go, most hikers do not take them. You don't need them to hike the trail. However, I'd get them for the following reasons:
1. You need to take the maps. The annual atc sale is ongoing - it ends real soon - and you basically get the guidebooks and maps now for just a tad more than what you would spend for the maps alone. So its like getting them free.
2. 20 years after my thru, I still use the guidebooks for information on how to best access the trail via highways and forest service roads when planning trips north of standing indian.
3. I carried the guidebooks on my thru and looked at them every day. I got a daily mini history lesson of the area I was hiking in which made it worthwhile for me.
Pedaling Fool
12-14-2007, 11:40
Haven't seen it yet, other than examples on their website, but I'm excited about Appalachian Pages.
The ALDHA guide works for me. Especially since it's free, and a PDF. I can print out exactly the part(s) I need -- saves paper and weight. I've yet to find any inaccuracies that mattered.
Bob McCaw
12-15-2007, 14:26
This looks like a good spot to plug the Thru-hiker's Handbook (available at www.trailplace.com and many booksellers), so I will.
Here are its advantages, IMO:
It's concise. There isn't a lot of useless information, but it covers what you need to know.
It's up-to-date. I personally visited every trail town this past October, even the obscure ones. Places that were out of business have been taken out of the book. The book includes a number of new services.
It's easy to use. It's in the same format that Wingfoot has used the last few years, and the maps have been updated.
I don't claim to be unbiased.:D
(FWIW, LW's price comparison is misleading as shipping is included in the price of the Handbook.)
Christopher Robin
12-15-2007, 15:03
The ALDHA guide works for me. Especially since it's free, and a PDF. I can print out exactly the part(s) I need -- saves paper and weight. I've yet to find any inaccuracies that mattered.
How can I get the same matireals please.:sun
Frolicking Dinosaurs
12-15-2007, 15:10
How can I get the same matireals please.:sunClick on the various parts needed on this page: ALDHA COMPANION (http://www.aldha.org/comp_pdf.htm)
SGT Rock
12-15-2007, 16:19
This looks like a good spot to plug the Thru-hiker's Handbook (available at www.trailplace.com (http://www.trailplace.com) and many booksellers), so I will.
Here are its advantages, IMO:
It's concise. There isn't a lot of useless information, but it covers what you need to know.
It's up-to-date. I personally visited every trail town this past October, even the obscure ones. Places that were out of business have been taken out of the book. The book includes a number of new services.
It's easy to use. It's in the same format that Wingfoot has used the last few years, and the maps have been updated.
I don't claim to be unbiased.:D
(FWIW, LW's price comparison is misleading as shipping is included in the price of the Handbook.)Bob, have you thought about putting up some example pages? Not the whole thing, but just a section of the book so people can see the lay out.
SGT Rock
12-15-2007, 16:21
Click on the various parts needed on this page: ALDHA COMPANION (http://www.aldha.org/comp_pdf.htm)
This is what I am using lately. I pay for the book (just to be honest) and then carry some sections printed - and the rest is stored in PDF format in my smartphone. I think someday most trail guides will have to have a digital option to stay competitive.
Lone Wolf
12-15-2007, 16:30
(FWIW, LW's price comparison is misleading as shipping is included in the price of the Handbook.)
Handbook- $23.50 shipped
App. Pages- $19.45 shipped
Companion- $16.20 shipped
The physical design of the Companion is quite annoying, I am preferential to the Handbook because it physically feels like an actual book, as opposed to the Companion that has the long and fat layout.
Just my two cents,
Kirby
Jack Tarlin
12-15-2007, 16:54
Kirby:
This is not the first time you've expressed your displeasure over the format of the Companion.
Many people, Kirby, photocopy sections of their guidebooks and only carry what they need, i.e. you don't need the Connecticut information when you're in North Carolina, etc.
You'll discover that the format, size, or shape of a book becomes insignificant when you're only carrying seven or eight pages of it at a time.
The physical design of the Companion is quite annoying, I am preferential to the Handbook because it physically feels like an actual book, as opposed to the Companion that has the long and fat layout.
Well, here's another take on it.... it has about the same dimensions as the ATC maps. So if you take it apart -- and ration off the pages along with the corresponding map sections -- it fits in the same bag as the maps and adds almost no thickness. Eg. 150 miles worth of maps typically equals maybe 10-15 pages of the guide. Which is all you need for one mail drop.
Just like it's silly to carry the whole map set from GA to ME, it's silly to carry the whole Companion. ;)
Who needs a guidebook? I just ask Jack. Or, if he's unavailable, someone at the shelter has one, you can just look at theirs. Hey, what's the status of the online wiki-guidebook thing? I don't even remember how to find it...?
Frolicking Dinosaurs
12-15-2007, 17:09
I prefer the layout of the Thru-Hiker Handbook over the Companion as well. I find it much easier to use. Not sure how easy the AT Pages are going to be to use - they may be even easier.
That said, historically the Companion has been more accurate than the Handbook, but it seems the new owner has made a genuine effort to rectify that. The AT Pages are new so they don't have a history.
Just like it's silly to carry the whole map set from GA to ME, it's silly to carry the whole Companion. ;)
I liked having one item with me that covered the whole Trail for forwarding planning purposes. I also used the book as my basic hike record, noting where I stopped each night. It's a great souvenir.
From what I have seen ATTroll write, the Appalachian Pages book will have pages that can be easily removed, even if you purchase the bound copy, Troll can clarify this if he comes across this post.
I plan on carrying the whole book, which ever one I end up with, to start, and plan to send pages home as they are no longer needed. I am going to mark up the book(IE:highlight where I stay), which is why I am keeping the pages I send home.
Kirby
Appalachian Tater
12-15-2007, 17:32
The physical design of the Companion is quite annoying, I am preferential to the Handbook because it physically feels like an actual book, as opposed to the Companion that has the long and fat layout.
Just my two cents,
Kirby
Actually the size is perfect because you can fold a page in half, put it in a freezer bag, and stick it in your back pocket so it's handy but protected from moisture--rain or sweat.
Bob McCaw
12-15-2007, 22:41
Bob, have you thought about putting up some example pages? Not the whole thing, but just a section of the book so people can see the lay out.
Excellent idea, Rock. Click this link for sample pages from the Thru-hiker's Handbook: www.trailplace.com/Sample_pages.pdf
bigboots
12-15-2007, 23:04
Anxiously awaiting the new copy to see the changes! Thanks for the all the research and time!
Bigboots
Lone Wolf
12-15-2007, 23:56
www.trailplace.com forums are now up i see
I just clicked on the sample page.
I never heard of the Max Epperson Shelter before, but was surprised to learn that any shelter on the AT was for thru hikers only.
Anyone know what's up with that?
Lone Wolf
12-16-2007, 00:09
I just clicked on the sample page.
I never heard of the Max Epperson Shelter before, but was surprised to learn that any shelter on the AT was for thru hikers only.
Anyone know what's up with that?
it's a shelter a few hundred yards north of the Amicalola Falls state park visitor center on the blue blaze approach trail. it's just for people thru-hiking the 8.8 mile approach trail
it's a shelter a few hundred yards north of the Amicalola Falls state park visitor center on the blue blaze approach trail. it's just for people thru-hiking the 8.8 mile approach trail
OK, I read too quickly. Thought it was on the AT.
Pedaling Fool
12-16-2007, 00:12
I just clicked on the sample page.
I never heard of the Max Epperson Shelter before, but was surprised to learn that any shelter on the AT was for thru hikers only.
Anyone know what's up with that?
In the two times I've been to Amicalola, I've never seen this shelter, which is, as I understand it, located 50 yards behind the visitor's center. I believe it sleeps 12.
I assume it's there for hikers that got to Amicalola too late to start hiking, so they stay at the shelter for free. Although, I'm sure any one can stay.
SGT Rock
12-16-2007, 02:23
Chickenwire bunks. I stayed there and no one even asked if I were a thru-hiker. Thank goodness I had my fake Thru-Hiker ID Card.
Thanks for the peek at the PDF Bob. I think that a taster is important. I've noticed Amazon does the same things with books.
Thanks for the example Bob.
Kirby
Excellent idea, Rock. Click this link for sample pages from the Thru-hiker's Handbook: www.trailplace.com/Sample_pages.pdf (http://www.trailplace.com/Sample_pages.pdf)
You just sold me on the book. It's so concise and detailed that it seems to cover anything you need practically. I might also purchase a more history-oriented guide just to read before I leave maybe even twice so that I have an idea of what I'm hiking past. I could even throw some notes from one into the other to have the best of both worlds.
What kind of "inaccuracies" were you talking about?
Bob,
As you put your own stamp on the book, please take note that WF refused to adopt the language of the 2,000 Miler requirement as put forth by the ATC (its on their web page and on the application one picks up in Baxter State Park).
While WF's verbiage is similar, it is not that of the ATC. WF copied those parts he approved of word for word from the ATC, and left out the part he did not approve of. He felt he knew better.
Just my .02.
RB
Bob McCaw
12-16-2007, 18:25
Bob,
As you put your own stamp on the book, please take note that WF refused to adopt the language of the 2,000 Miler requirement as put forth by the ATC (its on their web page and on the application one picks up in Baxter State Park).
While WF's verbiage is similar, it is not that of the ATC. WF copied those parts he approved of word for word from the ATC, and left out the part he did not approve of. He felt he knew better.
Just my .02.
RB
Rick,
Thanks for the heads-up.
ATSeamstress
12-19-2007, 01:49
I stayed there and no one even asked if I were a thru-hiker. Thank goodness I had my fake Thru-Hiker ID Card.
Now that just cracked me up! :banana
River Runner
12-19-2007, 03:32
Chickenwire bunks. I stayed there and no one even asked if I were a thru-hiker. Thank goodness I had my fake Thru-Hiker ID Card.
Yeah - technically anyone is a thru-hiker if you start at one end or the other. Anyone sectioning from Springer as far as Neel's makes it as far as 10% of the thru-hikers anyway.
:D
River Runner
12-19-2007, 03:38
I like the Thru-Hikers Handbook due to the format. Seemed liked I'd have to buy both the Companion & the Data Book to get the same info.
River Runner
12-19-2007, 03:44
Kirby:
Many people, Kirby, photocopy sections of their guidebooks and only carry what they need, i.e. you don't need the Connecticut information when you're in North Carolina, etc.
You'll discover that the format, size, or shape of a book becomes insignificant when you're only carrying seven or eight pages of it at a time.
I think these books are copyrighted, which means technically it is illegal to copy the pages, right?
So I believe technically if you want to keep one book intact, a second book should be purchased and dissected into sections if you want to carry only part of it. Not saying this is usually done, but to be perfectly 'legal' that would be the way to go about it, unless someone has knowledge to the contrary.
I think these books are copyrighted, which means technically it is illegal to copy the pages, right?
Hmmm. I see a proper, official-looking copyright notice in the printed/purchased version of my ALDHA guide, but no such notice in the PDFs from the ALDHA website.
Which is a bit confsuing. For all practical purposes, there's not much difference between printing the free PDFs, and copying the printed version. Except that the 2nd option is technically illegal and won't look nearly as good.
Anyway, this ability to get "just the part I need" has been one of the attractions of the ALDHA guide, for my purposes. Since I carry the ATC maps, the form factor works out well.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
12-19-2007, 09:19
Copyrighting is meant to protect other's works being used for profit or being reprinted to deprive the owner of proceeds from the sells of the work. If you make a copy for your personal use after buying whatever the guide you favor, then it is not a violation of copyright laws because the owner has been compensated for your use of the material. If you make a dozen copies and sell or give them to friends, this violates the copyright because you have deprived whoever owns the book of being compensated for the use of the material by others.
River Runner
12-19-2007, 16:27
Copyrighting is meant to protect other's works being used for profit or being reprinted to deprive the owner of proceeds from the sells of the work. If you make a copy for your personal use after buying whatever the guide you favor, then it is not a violation of copyright laws because the owner has been compensated for your use of the material. If you make a dozen copies and sell or give them to friends, this violates the copyright because you have deprived whoever owns the book of being compensated for the use of the material by others.
What about the paragraph usually located under the copyright that says - "No part of this work may be reproduced, transcribed, transmitted, or shared in any form by any means, electronic or mechanical (including photocopying....) for any purpose whatsoever without written permission from the author... ?
I kinda take that to mean NO copying, whether it is for your own use or not. Any copyright attorneys here who can tell us for sure?
Jack Tarlin
12-19-2007, 17:07
River Runner:
You've raised an interesting point. Some guidebooks seem to have cared about this in the past, and have indeed told their readers that photocopying was forbidden. Some haven't. Some could evidently care less, as they publish their books for free on the Internet.
I'm willing to bet that photocopying a few pages out of a book, for personal use and not for profit or re-sale, would be a very dificult thing for anyone to claim damages on.
I don't know if there are any copyright lawyers here, but there are certainly some self-appointed legal experts. I'm sure we'll here from them shortly.
Blissful
12-19-2007, 20:06
I think the only problem we had with the 2007 handbook were some elevation profiles not quite accurate, and also confusion between a woods road vs a dirt road, a road trace etc. We never could figure out what "woods road" meant. Other than that, it worked out pretty good for us when we lost our companion.
Pedaling Fool
12-19-2007, 20:20
I think the only problem we had with the 2007 handbook were some elevation profiles not quite accurate, and also confusion between a woods road vs a dirt road, a road trace etc. We never could figure out what "woods road" meant. Other than that, it worked out pretty good for us when we lost our companion.
I would be interesting to see a group (non-bias, of course) do a thru-hike with all guides with the express purpose of verifying information, all information, including elevations... Many make claims that one book is less/more accurate than another, but no one really knows, opinions are, IMO, based on some sort of bias.
As for "woods road" I also wondered about that, I think they are just old forgotten roads in the woods. Some areas where there were suppose to be a "woods road" I initially could not see one, but if I looked close enough there seemed to be a road which could have been there at one time. Other times there was no mistaken the road, but it was obvious it was no longer used and other times I never did see anything.
Jack Tarlin
12-19-2007, 20:23
What a dumb reason to do a thru-hike.
If your "express reason" to hike is to verify guidebooks, you should find another hobby.
Pedaling Fool
12-19-2007, 20:30
I think the only problem we had with the 2007 handbook were some elevation profiles not quite accurate...
Something else I often wondered:
When one arrives to a shelter, say Whitley Gap Shelter, the mileage is 36.7 miles from Springer and the elevation is 3370'. Now the mileage is, I'm assuming, 36.7 miles from Springer to the trail-head of Whitley Gap Shelter, since the Handbook does not include non-AT mileage in the columns listed Miles from Springer or Miles From Katahdin.
So, my question: Does the elevation of 3370' indicate the elevation at the trail-head or the elevation at Whitley Gap Shelter?
Pedaling Fool
12-19-2007, 20:31
What a dumb reason to do a thru-hike.
If your "express reason" to hike is to verify guidebooks, you should find another hobby.
I'd do it if you would pay my way, Jack.
Jack Tarlin
12-19-2007, 20:38
Actually, that's a fair question. I'm pretty sure it means elevation AT THE TRAIL CROSSING; the actual elevation at the shelter itself could be very different; it's often a bit lower.
Tho it a funny thing you should use Whitley shelter as an example, since 99.9% of A.T. hikers who pass by there never ever see it.
Lone Wolf
12-19-2007, 20:48
Earl didn't have no stinkin' guide. there's 3 available these days with WAY too much info. for fuksakes just walk and discover. every town has your needs. so what if a hostel or store closed from the previous year. nobody likes discovery anymore. you gotta know everything years before you get there. rant over :)
I think you just had a hissy fit :)
You're right though, sometimes knowing too much takes the fun out of it.
Lone Wolf
12-19-2007, 20:56
nope. no hissy. note the :) after my post
max patch
12-19-2007, 20:56
Many make claims that one book is less/more accurate than another, but no one really knows, opinions are, IMO, based on some sort of bias.
Whats really funny is when someone who hasn't thru hiked opines that such and such book is less accurate. How in the world would they know? You're correct; its usually a bias against one of the authors for whatever reason.
Wolf, it may surprise you to know that some people actually hike with the intent of getting from point A to point B in a fixed amount of time. In such cases, the idea of leaving the trail to waste time in some godforsaken hick-town looking for something you need that's not there... loses its appeal.
max patch
12-19-2007, 20:58
Earl didn't have no stinkin' guide. there's 3 available these days with WAY too much info. for fuksakes just walk and discover. every town has your needs. so what if a hostel or store closed from the previous year. nobody likes discovery anymore. you gotta know everything years before you get there. rant over :)
Lot of truth in that comment.
nope. no hissy. note the after my post
Oh, yeah, thanks for pointing that out. :)
It's official...as long as there is a :) at the end of your statement you can say anything. The :) indicates your 'think' button and acknowledges the hissy fit.:D ( this symbol indicates a smarta$$)
Pedaling Fool
12-19-2007, 21:10
...In such cases, the idea of leaving the trail to waste time in some godforsaken hick-town looking for something you need that's not there... loses its appeal.
"godforsaken hick-town"?, where's his smilely face?
"godforsaken hick-town"?, where's his smilely face?
I believe that deserves the :D
Frolicking Dinosaurs
12-19-2007, 21:16
The major hissy fit: :dance:bse:dance
bigboots
12-19-2007, 21:23
Earl didn't have no stinkin' guide. there's 3 available these days with WAY too much info. for fuksakes just walk and discover. every town has your needs. so what if a hostel or store closed from the previous year. nobody likes discovery anymore. you gotta know everything years before you get there. rant over :)
I agree completely...hence when I do my thru I only have the first section semi-planned. The rest I will decide as I hike. My thoughts are that if I plan everything out ahead of time it will be a waste due any nuber of things. I will just hike and have fun. (no planned mail drops for me! just pick stuff up allong he way)
Bigboots
The Old Fhart
12-19-2007, 21:38
Lone Wolf-“ Earl didn't have no stinkin' guide.” ….but he did have maps so he wasn’t flying blind. The reason he missed some of the trail in the Whites is because he didn’t get his maps for that area in time. Being informed as to where the trail goes isn't a bad thing.
bigboots
12-19-2007, 21:41
Read up and be knowledgable before you leave, your brain won't weigh any more. No need for books if you have an idea, and maps are never over-rated.
Bigboots
Lone Wolf
12-19-2007, 21:43
"godforsaken hick-town"?, where's his smilely face?
he's a liberal jew from MASSACHUSETTS! born into the ted (drown girls) kennedy arena.
Appalachian Tater
12-19-2007, 21:50
What a dumb reason to do a thru-hike.
If your "express reason" to hike is to verify guidebooks, you should find another hobby.
Actually it sounds like a cool thing to do. I guess you would also tell a librarian who classifies books and periodicals that that is a dumb reason to go to the library! Or tell an auditing accountant that auditing the books of a corporation is a dumb reason for visiting their offices.
he's a liberal jew from MASSACHUSETTS! born into the ted (drown girls) kennedy arena.
Born into it? You're off by about six thousand miles, amigo.
OregonHiker
12-19-2007, 22:44
he's a liberal jew from MASSACHUSETTS! born into the ted (drown girls) kennedy arena.
Watch it Fella Teddy only drowned ONE girl :(
Frolicking Dinosaurs
12-19-2007, 23:53
Sniff, sniff...I smell politics. I know these fine young men wouldn't discuss anything political in this part of the forum.
4eyedbuzzard
12-20-2007, 00:13
he's a liberal jew from MASSACHUSETTS! born into the ted (drown girls) kennedy arena.
Damn them liberal jews! Oh, present company excepted, there, Jesus ol' buddy...:rolleyes: :-?
River Runner
12-20-2007, 00:25
Whats really funny is when someone who hasn't thru hiked opines that such and such book is less accurate. How in the world would they know? You're correct; its usually a bias against one of the authors for whatever reason.
So section hikers who've used the books aren't entitled to give their opinions if they've noted more errors in one or the other of the books? :rolleyes:
I agree completely...hence when I do my thru I only have the first section semi-planned. The rest I will decide as I hike. My thoughts are that if I plan everything out ahead of time it will be a waste due any nuber of things. I will just hike and have fun. (no planned mail drops for me! just pick stuff up allong he way)
Bigboots
You got the right idea. I have discovered that those who do extensive planning, befor they go, don't have as much enjoyment as those who just start with a very loose plan. To have a sucessfull thru-hike you have to be able to "go with the flow.":)
I have discovered that those who do extensive planning, befor they go, don't have as much enjoyment as those who just start with a very loose plan.
You know this for a fact, do you? What do you say to folks with limited free time who still want to hike major portions of the trail? "Just go with the flow" doesn't cut it.
max patch
12-20-2007, 10:57
You got the right idea. I have discovered that those who do extensive planning, befor they go, don't have as much enjoyment as those who just start with a very loose plan.
I think that those who do extensive planning before they go generally ignore those plans as worthless after the first week or so.
I'm always amused by folks doing their first long distance hike that plot out where they are going to sleep every night over the next 6 months.
You know this for a fact, do you? What do you say to folks with limited free time who still want to hike major portions of the trail? "Just go with the flow" doesn't cut it.
I probably should have said: In my estimation.. Now. How is that?
Then there is the word enjoyment.:)
That's better. BTW, I'm not saying you're entirely wrong about over-planning. I may be guilty of it myself. Maybe there's a middle road somewhere between totally impulsive and totally compulsive. Maybe there's no "right" way or "wrong" way.
LW may like to blue-blaze and dilly-dally and "discover" -- more power to him for that -- but he's got no job or career to go back to.
That's better. BTW, I'm not saying you're entirely wrong about over-planning. I may be guilty of it myself. Maybe there's a middle road somewhere between totally impulsive and totally compulsive. Maybe there's no "right" way or "wrong" way.
LW may like to blue-blaze and dilly-dally and "discover" -- more power to him for that -- but he's got no job or career to go back to.
I guess this just goes to show you what is ment by; "Hike your own hike."
WalkinHome
12-20-2007, 13:17
I am not sure how I would define "over planning" but I planned the hell out of my hike and as a fromer "operations sergeant" had a great time doing it. IMHO the key is in the response by Max Patch. Regardless of all your planning, you have to adapt all of it during your thru. That is what I did and that led to a happy successful thru in 2000. No plan ever survived contact with the enemy LOL.
OregonHiker
12-21-2007, 00:47
Sniff, sniff...I smell politics. I know these fine young men wouldn't discuss anything political in this part of the forum.
FD:
Why let LW's post slide? Where is the fairness?
Bootstrap
12-21-2007, 08:57
I kinda take that to mean NO copying, whether it is for your own use or not. Any copyright attorneys here who can tell us for sure?
I think the guiding principle is is "non-commercial personal use". If you buy a CD, you can make copies, in the same or different medium, as long as it is (1) for your own use, as someone who has already bought the recording, and (2) there's no profit involved. The Audio Home Recording Act clarified this.
There are other times that you can copy under "fair use" doctrine, e.g. you can excerpt a book in a review.
I'm glad people here are being careful to be honest. But I think one intended purpose of a guidebook is to be used on the trail, and if you bought it, making a copy in a different format to carry with you is not a violation of copyright law as I understand it.
I'm not a lawyer. Do your own research.
Jonathan
cbserafin7
01-20-2008, 10:07
This sequence of emails has beeen verrry helpful. Thank you. The sample pages show me that you have spent endless hours and research (abeit personal travel). From this hikers perspective I really appreciate your efforts. Indygirl
I used it back in 2001, and I liked if for the same reasons others have: the right amount of information in an easy-to-use format.
The AT Companion is now available on the ATC website, I imagine the Appalachian Pages and Thru Hikers Handbook are as well.
Kirby
kytrailman
01-29-2008, 15:06
Get a copy of Appalachian Pages. It is way better than any other IMO.
Rockhound
01-30-2008, 14:13
i have the 2007 companion &Wingfoots' 2007 guides. the companion i found to be more accurate (miles/elevation) but Wingfoots book shows more stream crossings,footbridges, powerlines etc...that i found helpful. It's also a little lighter. I'd go with Wingfoots' guide
Pedaling Fool
01-30-2008, 15:39
i have the 2007 companion &Wingfoots' 2007 guides. the companion i found to be more accurate (miles/elevation) ...
How did you come to this conclusion? I don't disagree, because I just don't know. Seems to me one would have to basically do the trail with the express purpose of validating guidebooks to know for sure.
Jack Tarlin
01-30-2008, 19:31
I'm glad to see so many folks that are pleased with the new Guidebook, but one thing troubles me: I see all sorts of people talking about how much better it is than the other available boks, but I can't recall seing ONE post from anyone who has obtained, read, and compared all three 2008 books. I, for one, am really curious to see what sort of changes have been made in the new version of The Thru-Hikers Handbook. I also want to see the new edition of the Companion.
In short, I'm happy to see that foks seem pleased with the new guidebook, but for folks to say "It's way better than anything else out there!" when they haven't actually seen the current versions of what's out there......well, sems to me, you should have a look at ALL of the 2008 guides before making such sweeping statements.
Lots of folks have asked me to comment on the 2008 books, and my answer's been the same: I'll happily coment and compare them.
But only after I've actually read them. :-?
I'm glad to see so many folks that are pleased with the new Guidebook, but one thing troubles me: I see all sorts of people talking about how much better it is than the other available boks, but I can't recall seing ONE post from anyone who has obtained, read, and compared all three 2008 books. I, for one, am really curious to see what sort of changes have been made in the new version of The Thru-Hikers Handbook. I also want to see the new edition of the Companion.
In short, I'm happy to see that foks seem pleased with the new guidebook, but for folks to say "It's way better than anything else out there!" when they haven't actually seen the current versions of what's out there......well, sems to me, you should have a look at ALL of the 2008 guides before making such sweeping statements.
Lots of folks have asked me to comment on the 2008 books, and my answer's been the same: I'll happily coment and compare them.
But only after I've actually read them. :-?
The 2008 Companion is now available. Noe sure about the handbook.
Kirby
Could someone provide a shortlist of guidebooks and planning resources.
I won't be going this year, just wanted to make a rough plan.
Information I am looking for at this point.
1. Distances and Net Elevation Gains along the way.
2. Distances from trail heads to places to buy groceries, plain groceries like oats and stuff.
Also wondering if Mount Katahdin ever opens before June 1st?
I'm thinking of starting at Mount Careleton in New Brunswick and doing the IAT.
Could someone provide a shortlist of guidebooks and planning resources.
www.aldha.org
downloadable (pdf) guide to the entire AT. There's another from Wingy's (former) site and another from ATC.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
02-01-2008, 10:38
I'm glad to see so many folks that are pleased with the new Guidebook, but one thing troubles me: I see all sorts of people talking about how much better it is than the other available boks, but I can't recall seing ONE post from anyone who has obtained, read, and compared all three 2008 books. I, for one, am really curious to see what sort of changes have been made in the new version of The Thru-Hikers Handbook. I also want to see the new edition of the Companion.
In short, I'm happy to see that foks seem pleased with the new guidebook, but for folks to say "It's way better than anything else out there!" when they haven't actually seen the current versions of what's out there......well, sems to me, you should have a look at ALL of the 2008 guides before making such sweeping statements.
Lots of folks have asked me to comment on the 2008 books, and my answer's been the same: I'll happily coment and compare them.
But only after I've actually read them. :-?Excellent points, Jack, but I don't think it will matter. People used Wingy's book despite all the erroneous material because they liked the format so much better than the Companion. My guess is they will use the Appalachian Pages regardless for the same reason.
I have the 2007 Companion- long and skinny and unwieldy to store for quick access- but would someone please supply the actual dimension of WingFoot's Data book. I tend to keep such in a small fanny pack worn to the front and the Companion is just too long for it. Thanks in advance.
max patch
02-01-2008, 11:17
8.0 x 5.0
Excellent points, Jack, but I don't think it will matter. People used Wingy's book despite all the erroneous material because they liked the format so much better than the Companion. My guess is they will use the Appalachian Pages regardless for the same reason.
I like the format of the ALDHA guide. It matches the ATC maps. I don't carry the entire guide. I print the PDF pages, double-sided, and carry only the pages that I need. When I pick up another set of maps (at a maildrop) the corresponding guide pages are in the same bag.
8.0 x 5.0
Thanks for the reply. Now to find my companion...
Alligator
02-01-2008, 12:28
Excellent points, Jack, but I don't think it will matter. People used Wingy's book despite all the erroneous material because they liked the format so much better than the Companion. My guess is they will use the Appalachian Pages regardless for the same reason.I thought Jack's points were good too. But you are back to biasing Appalachian Pages. What you wrote reads as despite all the erroneous material people will use Appalachian Pages because they like the format. A number of times now you have brought Appalachian Pages and each time you question the accuracy. It's like you are push-polling.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
02-01-2008, 12:56
'Gator, it will come out this year if it is or isn't accurate. Until then, it is an UNKNOWN quality - that has been my position since day one and will continue to be until it is known.
max patch
02-01-2008, 13:01
'Gator, it will come out this year if it is or isn't accurate. Until then, it is an UNKNOWN quality - that has been my position since day one and will continue to be until it is known.
And - since you haven't hiked the entire trail - WFs Handbook is also an UNKNOWN QUALITY TO YOU. You really shouldn't keep making comments re the "numerous errors" etc that are in the Handbook as you don't know what you are talking about.
Alligator
02-01-2008, 13:08
FD, unless you are actually going to fact check the book, you ought to lay off. I don't believe you are unbiased. Point 2 below you state that AP had known problems and the problems you were referring to was accuracy. This was before the book even came out. You didn't even have to post in this thread, I doubt you have any of the books listed for this year. Critics, both good and bad, ought to at least read the books they are criticizing.
12-07-2007
First, I did not say The Companion had inaccuracies, but that The Thru-Hiker's Handbook historically has and that some, mostly you, have accused the new Appalachian Pages of being inaccurate. I said what has been said of The Companion in the past by many, many people in the countless discussions of whether the Handbook or Companion was a better resource for hikers - that the format of The Companion is difficult to use.
1. It is well known that Bob McCaw has been calling and visiting the lodging resources to verify info and checking that the stores, POs, etc still exists, have the hours stated. This is why I have every reason to believe The Thru-Hiker's Handbook will be a far more accurate publication than it has in the past..
2. I'm am fairly sure that after your initial attack of the Appalachian Pages accuracy that both parties involved have checked the accuracy of the materials. If they haven't, then the venture will likely fold. It is one thing not to rectify an unknown problem and quite another to ignore known problems.
3. The Companion is available on-line so its current characteristics are known. While it is possible it could change dramatically for the year 2008, such a change would be known to the leaders of the organization and they have said nothing about any dramatic change.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
02-01-2008, 16:33
Alligator, I was actually defending Appalachian Pages in the quote you used... However, you seem to want to make it seem I have an agenda or a vendetta with this publication. May i ask why you are doing this?
I simply want to know if it is substantially accurate before I order it - is that too much to ask :confused: I switched to the ALDHA Companion from the Thru-Hiker Handbook over accuracy issues even though I despise the layout of the Companion because accuracy is important to me.
Jack Tarlin
02-01-2008, 18:12
I intend to compare and review all three books, after I've seen 'em.
I hope other folks do likewise.
I also suggest we start an entirely new thread here at Whiteblaze, called something like "2008 Trail Guidebooks: Errors, Omissions, Additions" so that Whiteblaze folks who wish to comment on any or all of these books can do so, especially as regarding material that they question, or useful material they think has been omitted. That way, WB people who are hiking this year, and there are many of them, can periodically check in to this new thread, and perhaps learn about such things as new hostels; business closings, etc.
Instead of arguing amongst ourselves about which is the Best 2008 Guidebook, perhaps it'd be more productive if we instead provided suggestions and ideas about how these books can be improved; we can also
share with each other useful material or information that is missing from the current books.
I think THAT would be more useful to the 2008 hikers than sitting around
disputing the worthiness of books that 99% of us haven't even seen yet.
Just my two cents.
Alligator
02-01-2008, 21:40
Alligator, I was actually defending Appalachian Pages in the quote you used... However, you seem to want to make it seem I have an agenda or a vendetta with this publication. May i ask why you are doing this?
I simply want to know if it is substantially accurate before I order it - is that too much to ask :confused: I switched to the ALDHA Companion from the Thru-Hiker Handbook over accuracy issues even though I despise the layout of the Companion because accuracy is important to me.Because whenever you bring it up you ask negative questions about it. You've done this before the book was even published. You did this before the book finished shipping. Since it is the first run of the publication, it's damaging to keep hitting it with the negative questions. Attroll and AWOL have put money out of their pockets to get this published, and you are unfairly biasing people's perception of the accuracy. It's like saying, is the food at Joe's diner as bad as I've heard, yet the place isn't open yet and you haven't eaten there. Ask that question in various incarnations and before long, people will think the food at Joe's is bad. You've done this on repeated occasions.
While I also think the positive comments are premature, the negative casting can be far worse. So I ask you, why the hell can't you wait if the accuracy is that important? It definitely needs a good field testing and input from multiple users to get a true measure of how well it does against other publications. Try showing a little patience.
BTW the following is not a defense. It is you saying that AP has "known problems". That from a sample page of an unfinished publication.
2. I'm am fairly sure that after your initial attack of the Appalachian Pages accuracy that both parties involved have checked the accuracy of the materials. If they haven't, then the venture will likely fold. It is one thing not to rectify an unknown problem and quite another to ignore known problems.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
02-01-2008, 21:42
"Gator, you are keeping this going... what gives?
Because whenever you bring it up you ask negative questions about it. You've done this before the book was even published. You did this before the book finished shipping. Since it is the first run of the publication, it's damaging to keep hitting it with the negative questions. Attroll and AWOL have put money out of their pockets to get this published, and you are unfairly biasing people's perception of the accuracy. It's like saying, is the food at Joe's diner as bad as I've heard, yet the place isn't open yet and you haven't eaten there. Ask that question in various incarnations and before long, people will think the food at Joe's is bad. You've done this on repeated occasions.
While I also think the positive comments are premature, the negative casting can be far worse. So I ask you, why the hell can't you wait if the accuracy is that important? It definitely needs a good field testing and input from multiple users to get a true measure of how well it does against other publications. Try showing a little patience.
BTW the following is not a defense. It is you saying that AP has "known problems". That from a sample page of an unfinished publication.
Alligator
02-01-2008, 22:27
"Gator, you are keeping this going... what gives?You asked me a question I answered it:-?.
...May i ask why you are doing this?
...
Could someone provide a shortlist of guidebooks and planning resources.
I won't be going this year, just wanted to make a rough plan.
Information I am looking for at this point.
1. Distances and Net Elevation Gains along the way.
2. Distances from trail heads to places to buy groceries, plain groceries like oats and stuff.
Also wondering if Mount Katahdin ever opens before June 1st?
I'm thinking of starting at Mount Careleton in New Brunswick and doing the IAT.
There are two guidebooks that will have what your looking for.
www.trailplace.com (http://www.trailplace.com)
www.appalachianpages.com (http://www.appalachianpages.com)
The ALDHA Compasnion is also helpful.
OregonHiker
02-02-2008, 00:51
................................
lonehiker
02-02-2008, 01:07
I have now received the three guidebooks; Appalachian Pages, Thru-Hikers' Companion, and Thru-Hiker's Handbook. After a very quick look at each, I think that I will be taking Appalachian Pages on my Thru-hike attempt. Each has features that are appealing but I like the format of "Pages" best. I cannot speak for it's accuracy (nor can I speak for the accuracy of the other books either) but am making my decision based solely on the format. Not to stir much controversy over the accuracy issue, but, I'm not so sure that if any of the guides have minor inaccuracies it is much of an issue. Deal with it, make adjustments and hike on....
I am assuming this is a new guidebook beginning this year?
Does anyone know much about it?
The elevation overlay per page appears to an innovative, handy addition.
Now, which to choose???:-?
I am assuming this is a new guidebook beginning this year?
Does anyone know much about it?
The elevation overlay per page appears to an innovative, handy addition.
Now, which to choose???:-?
I was too lazy to search, then I did and answered my above question. I guess I missed it somehow on the forum.
I wonder, what its physical dimension is...?
And, since weight is reasonably important to someone living out of a pack carried upon one's back, I wonder why the various hiking guide's weights are not presented? Or, did I miss that one too?
I was too lazy to search, then I did and answered my above question. I guess I missed it somehow on the forum.
I wonder, what its physical dimension is...?
5 inches by 8 inches
6.5 oz
Frolicking Dinosaurs
02-02-2008, 09:13
5 inches by 8 inches 6.5 ozWow, I like the dimensions. May I ask how many pages the book ended up having (to gauge page thickness) and what sort of binding the the bound copies have? I know Appalachian Pages has options: being unbound, NOBO or SOBO and has perforated pages. Are there other user options?
Are there other user options?
Sure there are. Print the pages from the ALDHA guide, yourself. Take only the pages you need. Simple.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
02-02-2008, 09:25
Terrapin, I was asking Troll about user options for his book. I know you can print the ALDHA pages out, but I loathe the format and am looking to make a change.
Terrapin, I was asking Troll about user options for his book. I know you can print the ALDHA pages out, but I loathe the format and am looking to make a change.
Sorry, I misunderstood. I mistakenly assumed that the issue was minimal weight or thickness of the package. (You can see where my priorities lie.)
5 inches by 8 inches
6.5 oz
Appalachian Pages Dimension & Weight.
The Companion ('07) weighs 8.64 ounces. Appalachian Pages saves more than two ounces, comparing the weights of both!
I do hate the long, skinny Companion's physical size
warren doyle
02-02-2008, 14:19
All I need is the ever-reliable, economical and mostly accurate AT Data Book.
I do hate the long, skinny Companion's physical size
... but those printable PDFs are a section-hiker's friend. ;)
Appalachian Pages Dimension & Weight.
The Companion ('07) weighs 8.64 ounces. Appalachian Pages saves more than two ounces, comparing the weights of both!
I do hate the long, skinny Companion's physical size
Exactly, quite annoying, but I will carry it this year. The Handbook has witnessed a changing of the guard, and Pages is new.
Kirby
Just got my Appalachian Pages and like it a lot. The handy distances to the next two shelters and the trail profile located on each page will make it invaluable. As a section hiker the perforated pages will be torn out for the piece I'm doing so I won't carry the whole book. I also like the updated symbol system he's using. Thank you AWOL!
Wow, I like the dimensions. May I ask how many pages the book ended up having (to gauge page thickness) and what sort of binding the the bound copies have? I know Appalachian Pages has options: being unbound, NOBO or SOBO and has perforated pages. Are there other user options?
There are 176 pages in both the NOBO and SOBO versions. We are going to print this week on the SOBO version.
We offer the unbound version in the NOBO version but not in the SOBO version.
NOBO and SOBO version both have perforated pages.
I made a correction to my previous post. I was looking at the proof copy that I printed and the page count was not right because it was a proof copy.
Both NOBO and SOBO version have 176 pages in them.
max patch
02-04-2008, 12:24
All I need is the ever-reliable, economical and mostly accurate AT Data Book.
...and a road map
Jack Tarlin
02-04-2008, 18:05
Max:
That was pithy, and also very funny.
warren doyle
02-05-2008, 13:31
Except the simple fact remains that I have approximately 15,000 miles of unsupported backpacking on the Appalachian Trail and, except for my first thru-hike when I had guide books, I used only the AT Data Book during my remaining 28,000 AT miles.
Jack Tarlin
02-05-2008, 14:29
The simple fact, sir, is that works for you, whether choice of guidebooks, ammount of your budget, etc., will NOT work for most people.
Most people prefer having guidebooks to give them current information on campsites, shelters, water sources, etc., in addition to information on re-supply possibilities, towns, etc.
And most sensible people carry maps as well.
But to each their own.
And I can't help but add, sir, that considering how many of your Trail miles ARE vehicle supported, then it's easy to see why you can get by with just the Data Book: After all, if all you need do is get from road crossing to road crosssing, i.e. if your day's mission is to rendezvous with your support car in mid-afternoon, then you probably can get by without a detailed guidebook.
But the thing is, 99% of long-distance hikers don't hike this way.
I drove all of route 95 with no map. Does that make me a good hiker?
Is there a Just Warren and Jack forum? Should there be?
Frolicking Dinosaurs
02-05-2008, 16:02
Is there a Just Warren and Jack forum? Should there be?And it should be down in sensitive trail topics so the moderation team doesn't have to work overtime :D
Hell, Jack ought to have his own damned website. :D
Pedaling Fool
02-05-2008, 18:20
I'm starting to think Jack and Warren really are bitter enemies ..... no not really, I'm sure they get along just fine at get-togethers.
Anyone got any pics of Jack and Warren together? Give me back some hope in the AT community.
I ordered my 2008 Companion today. I will give my assessment of it (Jack, can you guess what that will be?) once I have looked it over.
Kirby
Lone Wolf
02-06-2008, 21:21
how would he know?
how would he know?
Every the guidebook conversation comes up, I express my discontent for the physical format of the book, and then he says I complain about the physical format of the book too much.
Kirby
Lone Wolf
02-06-2008, 21:39
it does not matter what he or anybody else thinks. you are the one buying the book. he's biased towards the companion though
Jack Tarlin
02-07-2008, 15:12
But I usually carry the Handbook, tho.
So whadda YOU know, Wolf? :D
Not as much as you seem to think you do........
I intend to compare and review all three books, after I've seen 'em.
I hope other folks do likewise.
I also suggest we start an entirely new thread here at Whiteblaze, called something like "2008 Trail Guidebooks: Errors, Omissions, Additions" so that Whiteblaze folks who wish to comment on any or all of these books can do so, especially as regarding material that they question, or useful material they think has been omitted. That way, WB people who are hiking this year, and there are many of them, can periodically check in to this new thread, and perhaps learn about such things as new hostels; business closings, etc.
Instead of arguing amongst ourselves about which is the Best 2008 Guidebook, perhaps it'd be more productive if we instead provided suggestions and ideas about how these books can be improved; we can also
share with each other useful material or information that is missing from the current books.
I think THAT would be more useful to the 2008 hikers than sitting around
disputing the worthiness of books that 99% of us haven't even seen yet.
Just my two cents.
NOW, THAT's A STEP IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION!
Frolicking Dinosaurs
02-09-2008, 16:59
Jack, have you managed to get hold of all three yet? I would like to hear your assessment. Have any others who are quite familiar with the AT managed to get hold of all three for comparison? Hammock Hanger? Warren? LW? Mala? Pirate? Tha Wookie? Marta? I know there are others.....
I've seen the ALDHA Companion - pretty much the same unfortunate format as in years past. I haven't seen the Thru-Hiker Handbook yet, but have heard it is very similar in format to previous years. I've seen the new Appalachian Pages - very nice format - in fact, head and shoulder above the other two for format IMO. The only questions remaining are the accuracy of Appalachian Pages and the Thru-Hiker Handbook. ALDHA's Companion has been the most accurate guide out there for years so there is no reason to think it isn't still quite accurate.
whitelightning
02-10-2008, 00:10
Last year I bought both the 2007 Companion and the Handbook to plan my thruhike with. The idea to see which I liked better for carrying on the trail in 2008. I decided on buying the Thru-hikers Handbook for my thruhike. As others have mentioned, I prefer the format and weight.
I keep seeing comments on accuracy between the guides. For the most part, I haven't noticed a significant difference between the actual information just the way it's presented. Are there that many inaccuracies in the guides that are significant? I'd like to know what some the past ones are. Things are always changing, so the way I see it, no guide is going to be 100% accurate once I'm out on the trail.
I do have the new 2008 handbook now and the format is the same. There have been many changes from last years handbook. I've noticed the town maps have been updated.
I just got my 2008 Companion(same old format).
I originally thought the cover photo was from the notch in Maine that I can't spell. But I then read the inside where it attributes the photo, and it is from Pennsylvania.
Does anyone else see how it could easily be the notch though, or is it just me?
Kirby
longwe tru
02-10-2008, 11:58
I have been comparing all three for the past two days in preparation for my hike next month and these are my thoughts:
The 2008 Handbook is 100%... word for word the same as the 2007 Handbook in the front with water, and milage and about 95% the same in the back section about towns. I am wondering how much updating could there possibly have been.
Appalachian pages has a nice format, but not as detailed and they misspelled Pittsburgh!!!
The Companion appears to be the most complete and up to date..with alot of extra information that I would find helpful on the trail.
Pedaling Fool
02-10-2008, 12:05
One thing I've noticed is that the mileage table in the Companion pretty much reflects the Data Book, but the Handbook, which also reflects the Data Book, but also adds a lot more, including stuff like powerlines...
That's a lot of work.
One thing I've noticed is that the mileage table in the Companion pretty much reflects the Data Book, but the Handbook, which also reflects the Data Book, but also adds a lot more, including stuff like powerlines...
That's a lot of work.
The mileage data is all going to reflect the same as the data book because we all receive the information from the ATC from the data book.
Pedaling Fool
02-10-2008, 13:51
The mileage data is all going to reflect the same as the data book because we all receive the information from the ATC from the data book.
I agree with that and have said that in the past. My only point was that the Handbook seems to add much more information. That's not a "plug" from me for the Handbook, just an observation. As far as I'm concerned one's trip on the AT will be adversely impacted or positively enhanced by purchasing one guide over the other. BTW, I do think Appalachian Pages is a good book and will purchase soon, so to add to my others.:sun
Pedaling Fool
02-10-2008, 13:55
... As far as I'm concerned one's trip on the AT will be adversely impacted or positively enhanced by purchasing one guide over the other....
Meant to say: "...will NOT be adversely impacted or positively enhanced..."
Jack Tarlin
02-10-2008, 14:43
John made a legitimate point.
The Handbook doesn't "seem" to contain more information.....it does indeed contain more information. To provide just one example, the Handbook devotes a page and a half to information on Hanover, NH including a map. The App. Pages devotes a page. (The Companion has just over two pages, but they are smaller-sized pages).
Among the useful information found in the Handbook and not in App.Pages are:
*That you can pick-up your mail AFTER the P.O. is closed if you go to the
side door (til 5:30 on weekdays; til 2:30 on Saturday).
*An admonition NOT to sleep or do laundry on the Dartmouth campus unless
specifically invited. (This is REALLY important; several hikers were almost
arrested last year for tresspassing)
*Info on the Dartmouth Inn. Yes, the Inn is expensive, but the rooms are
quite large and can be split by up to four people.
*Campsite information, i.e. info on the soccer field campsite at the North end
of town (there's a little tent on the map but no mention in the text).
*The Handbook gives more information on local dining possibilities, including
places on the Dartmouth campus, which are very reasonably priced. Also,
two of the restaurants listed in App. Pages (Mojo's and Subway) have closed
their doors. The Camera Shop on Main Street has also closed.
*Other than mentioning the Sunset Inn, App. Pages makes no mention of
where or how one can do laundry in Hanover.
*App Pages makes no mention of Omer and Bobs Sporting Goods, which has
outerwear, accessories, and footwear. Also no mention in App. Pages on
Interstate Bus Service; no mention of there being an L.L. Bean in nearby
West Lebanon. Also no mention of Stinson's Store, which has the best
sandwhiches in town, and the best beer and tobacco selection on the whole
Trail. Also no mention in either text or on the map of the True Value Hard-
ware store, where many people go to get fuel.
*In terms of map errors/omissions, App. Pages has Quiznos in the wrong
location. The Hardware Store is absent, as is Ramunto's, an extremely
popular restaurant for hikers (they give out free slices!). C&A Pizza near
Ben and Jerry's is also missing, as is Jewel of India, which has a great
Sunday AYCE Buffet. The Bagel Basement is mssing in both text and map.
The Handbook map also shows Dartmouth buildings of interest (Gym; Dining
Hall; Art Museum;Theaters/Auditoriums)
*Misc: The Handbook Map neglects to include the gas/station convenience
store next to CVS. By the way, it has changed its name and ownership and
is no longer open 24 hours.
*The Handbook neglects to mention veterinary services (Hanover Veterinary,
603-643-2428
In short, while I understand that Appalachian Pages wanted to be more streamlined than the other books, and didn't want to offer too much info, they might have carried this a bit far. And I couldn't help but notice that A.P. is only about 7 or 8 pages smaller than the Handbook, so omitting information didn't really help make the book smaller or lighter; in short, the books are about the same size but it seems to me that the Handbook (and Companion) as well contain a lot more information, and some of this info is indeed useful for hikers to know.
Two things I liked in App Pages: The Trail profiles are useful, tho they should not be relied on as an alternative to carrying the maps. And showing the distance to the next TWO shelters is useful for daily mileage planning.
Oh, one typo I don't think anyone's mentioned: On Page 34, it says that whiteblaze's address is whiteblaze.com instead of net!
Oh, one typo I don't think anyone's mentioned: On Page 34, it says that whiteblaze's address is whiteblaze.com instead of net!
Yes this was a misprint on the address but the address will still bring you to whiteblaze.net.
warren doyle
02-11-2008, 00:45
I don't get involved in the debate of the Companion-Handbook-Pages. The economical, compact, and highly accurate AT Data Book is all I need.
Mountain Dew
02-11-2008, 04:50
Stop the broken record TC.... we get the point. :sun
I don't get involved in the debate of the Companion-Handbook-Pages. The economical, compact, and highly accurate AT Data Book is all I need.Yep, the rest is fluff.
Lone Wolf
02-11-2008, 11:06
all 3 are basically the same. all 3 probably have too much info. back in the day i had The Phiosopher's Guide which hikers would laugh at today. you want to know where stuff is in a town? ask a local