View Full Version : sleeping pad, sleeping bag, and a bivy??
treadwayal
12-15-2007, 01:29
I'm new to this and I mean really new. I have done a few day hikes but nothin over nite. I'm hoping to hike the AT with my aunt ... 3 month section. i'm hoping to get my pack to be 30 lbs or less and i'm wondering about the sleeping conditions. I'm most interested in the bivy can you please tell me what all I need.
Swirlingmist
12-15-2007, 01:45
My boyfriend introduced me to camping hammocks which I recommend over tents (no poles required). I'll warn you now though that they do require practice in getting in/out and set-up. When are you thinking of hiking the 3 month section?
treadwayal
12-15-2007, 01:53
we are goin to start late may and early june starting in Ga and are section will end in virginia
Swirlingmist
12-15-2007, 01:55
BTW - Welcome to WhiteBlaze :-)
Kudos to you for making your first post. I encourage you to browse the Articles section for background/advice as well as listening to the ones who have lots of hiking experience that I'm sure will respond here.
Hopefully, this link will work: http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=99381#post99381
treadwayal
12-15-2007, 01:57
yea i have been reading on this site just about all day ... I wanted to find all i could before asking that sgt rock is really well versed... like his stuff
Swirlingmist
12-15-2007, 02:00
we are goin to start late may and early june starting in Ga and are section will end in virginia
Ooooo - that sounds lovely. Hot - but lovely. I was in Virginia this past July. The days were hot/humid, but the nights were wonderfully cool. They made campfires that much more enjoyable.
Swirlingmist
12-15-2007, 02:01
yea i have been reading on this site just about all day ... I wanted to find all i could before asking that sgt rock is really well versed... like his stuff
Good for you! Sounds like you're on the right track.
treadwayal
12-15-2007, 02:03
what kind of shirts do you recommend in the summer and socks
Swirlingmist
12-15-2007, 02:16
I tried out GoLite's DriMove (mid-weight) short-sleeved top this past summer (aka: wore it in the Dominican Republic for most of a week then went camping and day-hiking on the AT later). I love the fact it's odor-resistant, has SPF protection, and dries quickly. It's also easy to wash (gentle powdered detergent is recommended). Personally, I want more of 'em.
For socks, I like moisture-wicking liners and the hiker SmartWool. The liners are easy to rotate/wash which prevents the woollies from needing as much of a change. That's my own prefference of course. My boyfriend just uses plain wool socks since that doesn't irritate his skin while the liners do. It takes some testing...
Swirlingmist
12-15-2007, 02:23
Oh, I specifically tried on hiking boots with my preferred socks so that I was guaranteed a good fit. There's nothing like buying a pair of shoes only to find the size is too small when wearing full layers.
Swirlingmist
12-15-2007, 02:36
Oh, the GoLite shirt stretches in all directions which prevents awkward bunching in specific places. Beware their pants though as their sizing can be way off (waist was listed as 29" but actually measured 36" - not even a belt could hold those on me!)
Welcome to Whiteblaze, Treadwayal!
For that time of year, I would bring a 20 degree sleeping bag (I'm a cold sleeper), a thin 3/4 pad (Z-rest), and a Tarptent. (I haven't tried a bivy. Tarptents weigh about the same as a bivy and give you a lot more room.)
For clothing, I'd wear a synthetic T-shirt and synthetic shorts, thin socks, and running shoes. I would also have with me a lightweight set of long underwear/sleeping clothing, sleeping socks, a thin fleece jacket, and rain gear, which would double as warm layers for cold/wet weather, a sun hat and a warm hat, gloves, and a neck gaiter.
You haven't said whether you're on a tight budget or not, but in either case, there are often good deals to be had through Campmor. My AT shorts of choice were $5 Hind running shorts I bought from Campmor. They went 1500 miles and are still not worn out.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
12-15-2007, 05:54
There are no one-size-fits-all answers to sleeping gear or clothing. What you choose needs to fit your needs. Some things to help you decide:
Will you and your aunt be sleeping at shelters mostly or under a tarp or will the bivy be used alone? If you plan to use it alone, I would recommend you and your aunt share a lightweight tent with a vestibule instead of using a bivy so you have some room to move around and a sheltered place to cook when bad weather forces you to stay inside - the tarptents by Antigravity Gear (http://www.antigravitygear.com/products.php?cat=69) (Brawny line is sweet), Henry Shires (http://www.tarptent.com/products.html) and Six Moon designs (http://www.sixmoondesigns.com/) (the new Refuge is sweet!) are light and provide good coverage. If you plan to use the bivy under a tarp or in shelters, it needs to be able to let perspiration out while keeping things like blowing rain from getting in and it needs to protect you from insects. I'll leave discussing bivies to those who use them.
Are you a cold sleeper, an average sleeper or a warm sleeper? People who always seem to be cold when others are comfortable need extra insulation in their sleeping bag. People who are always hot when others are comfortable need less. Sleeping bags have a temperature rating, but they aren't always accurate. I would suggest asking about whatever bag you are considering here before buying - the members have used just about every piece of equipment available and are wonderful about sharing their knowledge.
Sleeping bags come in three shapes: rectangular, semi-rectangular or trapezoid and mummy. Most backpackers use mummy bags because they are warmer and lighter. Some feel too confined in mummy bags and use one of the other shapes because of that. Some use hiking quilts instead of bags, but I don't recommend that in a bivy. Some use a rectangular bag so they can unzip it all the way and use it as a quilt in milder temps.
Sleeping bags come with two kinds of insulation - synthetic and down. Synthetic insulation is cheaper, generally heavier for warmth than down and does not compress as well as down (more bulky in your pack). The big advantage of synthetics is that they dry faster than down and they provide some insulation when wet. Down is more expensive, but warm, compresses well and tends to last longer than synthetics. It is useless when wet. One thing a backpacker never wants to allow happen is getting her bag wet - put your bag in a waterproof bag of some sort regardless of what insulation you use. Many use a trash compactor bag (sturdy, cheap and light) You can patch the waterproof bag with duct tape if needed.
You will need a sleeping pad both to insulate you from the ground and to provide padding for comfort. When I was younger, closed cell foam (CCF) mats about 3/8" to 1/2" thick worked fine - they are the lightest option and are warm, but provide the least padding. My personal favorite was the Ridgerest (http://www.thermarest.com/product_detail.aspx?pID=49&cID=2). Many use self-inflating mats (http://www.thermarest.com/product_selection.aspx?cID=1) - these provide good insulation and more padding than CCF, but weigh more. As I've gotten older and more banged-up, I've come to need a lot more padding - I use a mat that has insulation inside and has to be blown up every night which is a real pain (http://www.bigagnes.com/str_pads.php?id=ia&PHPSESSID=4495f16d9791e78a9b89814cd94d6009). It is 2 1/2 inches thick. Comfortable, but heavy.
One inexpensive down sleeping bag that has been on many thru-hikes is the Campmor 20F down bag in mummy (http://www.campmor.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=86896) ($110, 2lbs, 4 oz) and rectangular (http://www.campmor.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=86909) ($140, 2lbs, 10 oz). If you are a warm sleeper, you may want a bag with less insulation than this - especially when using a bivy.
In synthetic fill: The 40F Marmot Pounder (http://www.campmor.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=39174343) ($140, 1 lb) with a bivy might work if you are a warm sleeper. If you are an average sleeper, perhaps the 30F Marmot trestle (http://www.campmor.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=39174171)($60, 2lbs, 13 ozs) plus a bivy would work. If you sleep cold, I'd suggest down because all the synthetic options are going to be too heavy to let you keep your total weight down to 30 lbs.
treadwayal
12-15-2007, 12:46
This is really great advice.. thank you all!! ....
Dino.... my aunt plans on using shelters thru out but i read that they are first come first serve so I want to be prepared if a shelter isn't available.
I'm not wanting to nesseccarliy use a bivy actually leaning more towards the tarp tents. Do i have to have a pad?? really looking to cut my weight down.
Pad serve two purposes:
1) Comfort--You may be able to do without this.
2) Insulation--In warm weather you can probably go without the pad, but if you're trying to sleep on wet ground on a cold night, you could have a very unpleasant night. Try spending a few hours on a 50 degree surface and see how it feels...
treadwayal
12-15-2007, 14:00
Marta... I see your point.
I recently come across the gatewood cape... Found it in the store dino suggested. It looks awesome but what about floor tarp?? could anyone suggest something?
Also I am a hot sleeper and sense its going to be in the summer I do like the 1lb sleeper that dino suggested.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
12-15-2007, 14:13
I feel a pad is imperative - there is no way I could sleep in a shelter on a wood floor without at least a 3/4 pad like Marta uses. You might want to look at the ridgerest short (http://www.thermarest.com/product_detail.aspx?pID=49&cID=2) (47" x 20" - 9 ozs) for weight savings. You can put your pack or extra clothing under your lower legs
treadwayal
12-15-2007, 14:55
Dino... from your earlier post i saw the "short" I was wondering if that wouldn't be better. Glad you brought that up.
However still wondering about the floor tarp if the tarp tent doesn't come with one.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
12-15-2007, 15:08
Most (including me) use a piece of Tyvek (this is house wrap - the vapor barrier used on houses). A few use a plastic drop cloth (heavier) and at least one person I know uses a plastic shower curtain liner cut to size. You could use a piece of silnylon or coated nylon.
treadwayal
12-15-2007, 15:29
i saw the tyvek when i was shopping around. I think that might be the best way for me to go right now. I am on a tight budget but i also want to buy things that will last a long time. No use in buyin cheap one time use items.
The Tarptent with a floor does not technically need a groundcloth. I used mine on the JMT without one. However, to protect the floor, and for an extra moisture barrier, I usually use a piece of Mylar "space blanket." I've been buying these cheaply.
This is what I'll be getting soon:
http://www.gossamergear.com/cgi-bin/gossamergear/polycryo_ground_cloth.html
In fact, Gossamer Gear is a very good place to check for just about anything you are considering buying. I have a Mariposa Plus pack that is my preferred summer pack.
In fact, I just took 5 minutes and ordered the groundcloths, as well as the DriDucks and a few other items.
treadwayal
12-15-2007, 16:41
Thanks Marta .... any option is a start to somewhere!! lol
Frolicking Dinosaurs
12-15-2007, 17:12
In fact, I just took 5 minutes and ordered the groundcloths, as well as the DriDucks and a few other items.Dino's Christmas presents, no doubt! :D
Dino's Christmas presents, no doubt! :D
Ummmm...it hadn't occurred to me to buy a groundcloth for a hammocker. Sorry!
Frolicking Dinosaurs
12-15-2007, 17:23
Dinos do both.... thought I did get a new JBR Bear Mountain hammock and I can actually get in and out without having several strong guys handy. :banana
treadwayal
12-15-2007, 17:25
what about when it rains?? I mean for people with hammocks? I know there is a top for some of them but can you cook in those things?
Doughnut
12-15-2007, 17:29
Most (including me) use a piece of Tyvek (this is house wrap - the vapor barrier used on houses). A few use a plastic drop cloth (heavier) and at least one person I know uses a plastic shower curtain liner cut to size. You could use a piece of silnylon or coated nylon.
I use a small poncho, serves multiple purposes,
In the cold I use a space blanket, (not the cheap flimsy emergency style ones)
just food for thought.
Dough Nut
Frolicking Dinosaurs
12-15-2007, 17:31
You tarp over hammocks... and this Dino puts the tarp up first in the rain so she has a dry place to be. I'm half of a couple and we use a small bivy-type tent and a large tarp most of the time. Not an ultralight solution so I didn't suggest it for you, but a solution that gives two Dinos lots of dry space, a cozy bug-free place to sleep and weighs about 4.5 pounds.
Doughnut
12-15-2007, 17:33
I Sectioned Springer (GA) to NOC last summer on a shakedown, prepaing for my thru in '09.
Shelters should not be a problem, if you like sleeping with mice and in the open,
I started with a tent then switched to a tarp.
It seems, in my limited experience that more people camp ina tent near the shelter, (water and people) not actually sleep in them in te summer.
I slpet on a porch one night due to the heat and humidity, and spent my last night in a shelter because I'd never slept in one.
Good Luck! Have a great time!
Dough Nut
guavaguy
12-15-2007, 21:08
I have and use the gatewood cape. It is a great poncho/tarp with a lot of features for very little weight. That being said, I am 6'2" and wear a size 12 and find the interior of the cape "ok". The sides slope down so the perimeter becomes unusable space. I use tyvek but you will slide a little on any kind of slope (gentle wash in machine helps this).
I am looking at the AG Brawny, SixMoon Refuge or the Tarptent contrail.
treadwayal
12-15-2007, 22:39
yea when i looked at the gatewood cape i looked at the brawny and sixmoon as well. I really like options. I guess i will just have to pick one and try it out!! lol Live and learn my own preferences.
Try one of these
http://www.rei.com/product/724388
Throw a silnylon fly over it (I used a 10x12 and had a huge porch on it on a couple of Maine section hikes with my son, but an 8x10 should work too). Cheap, cool, relatively light, and with REI's guarantee.
For pads, take a look at Backpacking Light's "Torsolite" pad - a very short, tapered self-inflating pad that just fits under - you guessed it - your torso.
Welcome to Whiteblaze - You're in good hands (p.s. see my Webshots site).
Tinker:welcome
treadwayal
12-16-2007, 18:09
Tinker thanks for the tip. And I enjoyed your pics.
Ok so as far as shelter goes my aunt said she was buying me a gatewood cape cause I think that is what she is using and to be honest I think it will be less weight since it doubles as my rain gear.
Finally figured would stove i would use as well. Decided on a mini trangia 28 alcohol stove since it will be summer and I can buy alcohol just about anywhere.
Glo-Worm
12-18-2007, 17:59
I used a bivy for my entire thru last year and choose not to send for my tarp tent. Like all pieces of gear, a bivy sack has pros and cons.
Pros:
1. Easy to set up and take down. Just unroll it. Done.
2. Low volume and light weight.
3. Easy camp selection. You can set up a bivy almost anywhere; great if you're hiking into the night.
4. Slightly warmer than a tent, tarp, or hammock. Great for cooler weather and few bugs.
Cons:
1. Very confined, if you are not comfortable in tight spaces a bivy might not be for you.
2. No room for gear. Your pack and boots need to stay outside and under your pack cover, not as much of a problem as you would think.
3. Very unpleasant to break camp in the rain, you will have no cover while you get your gear together, make breakfast, ect.
4. Slightly warmer than a tent, tarp, or hammock. Not so great for warmer weather and lots of bugs.
5. If your bivy is bright yellow people might start calling you Glo-Worm.
I hope that helps a little.
Glo-Worm
River Runner
12-18-2007, 21:39
Tinker thanks for the tip. And I enjoyed your pics.
Ok so as far as shelter goes my aunt said she was buying me a gatewood cape cause I think that is what she is using and to be honest I think it will be less weight since it doubles as my rain gear.
Finally figured would stove i would use as well. Decided on a mini trangia 28 alcohol stove since it will be summer and I can buy alcohol just about anywhere.
If you plan on the Gatewood Cape to double as shelter and rain gear, consider what you will do if it's raining when you need to set up or take down your shelter, or if you need to take a 'nature's call' hike in the middle of a storm at night. Not saying it can't be done, just that you need to think about it & practice setup/teardown so you could do it without getting soaked.
You might also want to consider at least a water resistant windshirt for dashing out in the rain long enough for that nature call.
If you don't mind the extra bulk you can sometimes forgo the extra weight of the ground tarp and use the weight to get an extra wide blue foam pad instead. Good option on cold ground. I am going to try tyvek over my bag instead of my bivy. Not this winter or spring though. Maybe late spring or summer. I use a CF Gortex bivy which is somewhat heavy but works well and is really basic. No poles or anything. I pitch a small poncho/tarp over it. Very versatile. You can sinch the bivy up in cold and rain and snow, but it isn't totally bug proof. I don't use it in summer anyway. I don't really have a solution for bugs yet, other than avoiding that season, which isn't good enough really. Kudos on going to a bivy straight away. Consider a small poncho/tarp or bug net to go with it or maybe even making your own bivy/tarp/bugnet system.
treadwayal
12-19-2007, 01:39
River runner... So awesome you suggested that. I would have been stuck in the rain cusing myself. I will also run that by my aunt.
Jak.... thanks for the input... I'm not exactly going with a bivy but I do want to try one. thanks for the suggestions.
The gatewood cape is the best poncho-tarp out there, but that being said, ponch-tarps are not AT gear.
The AT is a warm, wet trail. Given the timeline of your hike, you probably don't need any rain gear other than a 2-3 oz windshirt (montbell, or EMS/REI brand for cheaper/heavier), or a 1-2 oz emergency poncho.
A poncho-tarp is also a mediocre shelter. There's a lot of doodads that can leak. Poncho-tarps are for dry climates.
A simple 6x10 foot silnylon tarp should work just fine.
Christopher Robin
12-19-2007, 17:49
Welcome...Campmor carrys womens (Max-Thermo-Lite) sleeping padsthat weight 20-22ozs, & comes w/stuff sack & repare kit starting at $29.99. Also sleeping & pads are made for women, at is there is more room in the hips, & extra foot inseuation. There word comfort, warmth, & pading where we need it the most.
LIhikers
12-19-2007, 17:52
treadwayal.....
In your initial post you asked about sleeping bags and and I don't think anyone has covered that topic yet. If you can afford the price let me suggest Montbell's ultra light, super stretch, down hugger series of sleeping bags. They are light weight and pack down to a small size, they are also comfortable because of the fabric Montbell uses, the stretch feature lets one easily move around in their sleep, and the bags seem to be true to their rated temperature.
The gatewood cape is the best poncho-tarp out there, but that being said, ponch-tarps are not AT gear.
The AT is a warm, wet trail. Given the timeline of your hike, you probably don't need any rain gear other than a 2-3 oz windshirt (montbell, or EMS/REI brand for cheaper/heavier), or a 1-2 oz emergency poncho.
A poncho-tarp is also a mediocre shelter. There's a lot of doodads that can leak. Poncho-tarps are for dry climates.
A simple 6x10 foot silnylon tarp should work just fine.I use a 4'x8' poncho/tarp in New Brunswick, even in winter, but with a gortex bivy bag. No other rain gear other than breathable nylon wind jacket and pants.
Sleeping Bag recommendation: Western Mountaineering Cloud 9 comforter-twin size. I still use mine on my bed at home.
Christopher Robin
12-19-2007, 18:28
Check out the thread that (Happy Feet) is selling same of her gear cheep.
booney_1
01-01-2008, 23:18
Your aunt is "planning on sleeping in shelters". This works great if a.) there is space when you arrive. b.) there is a shelter when you want to stop. Often you may come to a shelter before you are ready to stop for the day, but not prepared to go 8 miles to the next one. Being able to camp anywhere will turn out to be pretty important. Often you will come to a shelter at the end of the day, and you are ready to camp. But you will also have days where you thought you could make it to the next shelter, but the hike was tougher than you thought, or it started raining heavily, and you want to stop NOW.
A tarp tent for two weighs the same as a bivy, it would be prudent to carry something both of you can sleep under.
30 pound pack-This is heavy. Is this including food and water? In the summer I think you can get this down to 14 or 15 before food and water.
You need to not take "extra" clothes.
My suggestion:
Bring a rain suit-pants+jacket. (so you don't need any long pants for warmth...if it's cool, wear rain pants)
bring a light fleece jacket. (worn in addition to rain jacket-it's plenty for that time of year.
long sleeve wicking t-shirt for camp
short sleeve wicking t-shirt for camp
hiking shirt (wicking) This time of year it will be sweat soaked-wash it out at night at camp.
hiking shorts (double as camp shorts)
extra nylon shorts (spare +sleep in)
knitted cap to sleep in
three pairs of liner socks +smart wool (or thorlo)
camp shoes (light like crocs)
You have not mentioned anything about stoves or pots. But the simpler the better. I like alcohol or solid-fuel stoves. Bring one pot,plastic plate,spoon,
coffee mug. NOTHING ELSE for cooking.
Your hike will be much more enjoyable if you CUT CUT CUT the weight. I don't know how big you are, but the rule of thumb that is often used is pack should not exceed 20% of your weight. For ENJOYMENT, it should weigh less.
Most new people are reluctant to cut weight, until out on the trail...then it's too late. I would suggest that you fine a trail near you with a climb that is common on the AT. For example, find a trail that gains 1200 feet in a couple of miles. Put on a 30 pound pack and climb it. Or find a stairwell in an office building and climb 30 stories.
You'll be amazed at how motivated this will make you to reducing the weight.
Sorry for the length of this post, but I've seen so many inexperienced people have a poor time backpacking because of carrying too much weight.
It's frustrating...they are so close to having a good time...
treadwayal
01-02-2008, 03:33
booney .. awesome thanks for covering all those areas and I'm not sure but i thought i had mentioned something about an alcohol stove.