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lunchbx
12-18-2007, 13:42
This topic came up in another thread and I thought it deserved its own thread. I had once had a friend beg me to take him camping when he found out I did section hikes on the A.T. I helped him get his gear together and thought I was dealing with a person who would take to the hiker lifestyle with ease. The one thing I forgot was that this person was from new jersey and had absoloutely no respect for the outdoors. He thought he could throw things wherever he wanted and continue to waste food and other resources the way he did at home. Needless to say our week long trip turned into a supervised camp outing ( me being the supervisor) I had to constantly yell at this person for throwing garbage where he pleased and wasting, throwing food and other bear attracting scents all over our sleeping area. even after explanation after explanation for reasons why a person shouldnt do these things this person would persist in throwing trash around and generally not giving a rats a$$ about the outdoors. Now you think i would've learned my lesson after that but i agreed to take a completley different friend out with whom i grew up in the same area in New Jersey and the same exact thing happened. I dont know if its the area im from or just a general trend in people my age. I know not everyone in new jersey is like this nor everyone my age, but i was wondering if anyone on WB has had a similar experience bringing friends/family out on the trail. Children are a different story by the way, they dont know better and after they are told the correct thing to do they normally will comply. but i see no excuse for someone in thier mid twenty's to behave this way. sorry for the long post, please share your experiences/feelings.

Hooch
12-18-2007, 13:43
Sounds like someone needs a butt whoopin'! :datz

lunchbx
12-18-2007, 13:47
sadly that wouldnt do anything, in my experience you can bring the most logical reasons for not littering to the table, or just not being wasteful in general and it wont get through to these people. it kinda makes me have no hope for the vast majority of people my age. they dont want to learn anything new, or just change an old habbit.

SGT Rock
12-18-2007, 13:54
Have hope. There are good kids out there in the under 30 crowd. There are people of this type in all age groups.

Smile
12-18-2007, 13:57
I was at a grocery store once and two young hippie-deadhead gals got out of their cute little gas-saving car, covered with stickers about the environment, and world peace, and one that said Tread Lightly on Your Mother. Both proceeded to just drop their still smoking butts on the ground, this parking lot abutted the River I worked on.

I stomped them out, picked them up and followed them into the store and said "here, you dropped these" I held them in my closed hand and she offered me her open palm - you should've seen her face. She said "what the..." and I said, well I was reading your bumper stickers and I thought I would do my part.

Sad that some people don't put their actions where their bumperstickers are!

But I find there are more hikers that I have met who are careful about what they hike in/out, and even pick up others stuff. This is encouraging! :)

Hooch
12-18-2007, 14:00
Maybe we can hire Blackwater operators to be LNT Enforcement Agents on the AT?

SGT Rock
12-18-2007, 14:01
I was at a grocery store once and two young hippie-deadhead gals got out of their cute little gas-saving car, covered with stickers about the environment, and world peace, and one that said Tread Lightly on Your Mother.

Sad that some people don't put their actions where their bumperstickers are!

Saw a bunch of those stickers on the back of a Cadillac Escalade with a single occupant driver the other day.

Lone Wolf
12-18-2007, 14:02
I was at a grocery store once and two young hippie-deadhead gals got out of their cute little gas-saving car, covered with stickers about the environment, and world peace, and one that said Tread Lightly on Your Mother. Both proceeded to just drop their still smoking butts on the ground, this parking lot abutted the River I worked on.

typical hypocritical behavior of pseudo-hippies. they don't care about thier own bodies/lungs never mind the "environment".

rafe
12-18-2007, 14:08
I was at a grocery store once and two young hippie-deadhead gals got out of their cute little gas-saving car...

yeah, the world sux 'cuz of all those hippie-deadheads in gas-saving cars. :rolleyes:

Lone Wolf
12-18-2007, 14:17
they ain't very productive members of society. dopers :rolleyes:

Hooch
12-18-2007, 14:20
I was at a grocery store once and two young hippie-deadhead gals got out of their cute little gas-saving car, covered with stickers about the environment, and world peace, and one that said Tread Lightly on Your Mother. Both proceeded to just drop their still smoking butts on the ground, this parking lot abutted the River I worked on. I think people like that are looking for somewhere to fit in, but find it easiest in that crowd of people because the whole point with them is not to fit in. They are annoying at best, though.

Freeleo
12-18-2007, 14:25
i will never understand why one will let there car smell like an ashtray but they never use the ashtray:(

Smile
12-18-2007, 14:25
Freeleo: good point!

It just gives the impression that all flowing-skirt tye-dye wearing earthy looking people are like that - and that just isn't the case :)

kayak karl
12-18-2007, 15:22
...The one thing I forgot was that this person was from new jersey...........different friend out with whom i grew up in the same area in New Jersey ...
Are you making this a jersey thing:) my dad taught me about the woods, i taught my sons, they are teaching their kids. its a parents responsiblity to do this. the school system won't. when ever my dad took a group of us, he set down the law and back then he could enforce it without fear of a lawsuit. things have changed, heroes are different, people dont care.:(
On one camping trip, Cheif Halftown went with us. :bananai still remember that like it was yesterday. (was 1965)

jhick
12-18-2007, 15:27
Being from Jersey, I don't think the two idiots represent everyone from NJ. In fact, most of the trail I've seen in NE PA is far dirtier than NJ. Have you been anywhere near Bake Oven? I don't blame PA'ers, but slobs... they come in all ages, shapes, sizes and colors.

p.s. There plenty of non dopers who ain't very productive either.

bfitz
12-18-2007, 15:27
they ain't very productive members of society. dopers :rolleyes:Hippie chicks are cute. I like the armpits and the dreads. Love the nugz. And the kind veggie burritos. Hiker chicks are better, all the good without the bad. As far as jersey people, what did you expect? As fars a cigarette butts in a parking lot, well, someone left the parking lot there first....and are you certain they weren't filterless?

Lone Wolf
12-18-2007, 15:29
Hippie chicks are cute...

and they stink and are dumb as toast

jhick
12-18-2007, 15:35
....As far as jersey people, what did you expect?

wow...what's with all the Jersey Hate??? I've been LOTS of places in this beautiful country, and if you are gonna try to tell me that trash in the woods is a jersey thing... you are sadly mistaken or haven't gotten out much.

wrongway_08
12-18-2007, 15:35
but ... free love.... gotta count for something..... :)

Lone Wolf
12-18-2007, 15:37
but ... free love.... gotta count for something..... :)

..and free diseases, crabs, etc.

Hooch
12-18-2007, 15:39
but ... free love.... gotta count for something..... :)The love might be free, but penicillin isn't. :eek:

kayak karl
12-18-2007, 15:46
wow...what's with all the Jersey Hate??? I've been LOTS of places in this beautiful country, and if you are gonna try to tell me that trash in the woods is a jersey thing... you are sadly mistaken or haven't gotten out much.

maybe they are talking about North Jersey? all the people that NY and Pa didnt want. :D
i hiked the Batona trail 2 months ago. the woods were clean. sites were spotless. no complaints here.

Ramble~On
12-18-2007, 15:56
err ahhh....babysitting adults on the trail, camping in the woods yeah.

A friend showed an interest in my hiking trips and i took him along on one...he didn't have any gear so I let him borrow some. Sounds simple right? Take a friend hiking with you...beats going alone...
what a nightmare...and i still am happy to take "new" people hiking.
Problem is...just as the tread says..it is babysitting adults.
You can't take someone who has no knowledge of roads or traffic laws, no knowledge or how to drive a car and stick them behind the wheel of one of your cars and expect them to drive...
Loaning out gear to someone that has no idea what it is, how it works or how expensive it is can really suck...I wish more of my friends were into hiking/backpacking and do not mind taking people along but when I do I am pretty much prepared to spend most of the trip explaining the ABC's.
Hopefully I'm a good babysitter and the hiking bug bites them, they buy their own gear:rolleyes: and continue the trend.... afterall, somebody took me on my first hiking trip.
It's kind of fun when you have someone that visions cooking canned pork n beans over a fire and sleeping in a 3 room tent...starts to realize that backpacking has come a long way since the last time they did it in the 70's

Cuffs
12-18-2007, 17:12
I was on a recent outting in GSMNP with several other hikers. one evening, one of these guys made his dinner in his cookpost (he doesnt know about freezerbag cookin.) Ate dinner, added some water to the now dirty pot, swirled said water in dirty, food-laden pot, as he gingerly walked to the creek along side our camp and promptly threw in his grey water! In the creek!

This was a grown (50's) man! The only thing that kept me from saying anything was the fact that I still had 3 more days to hike with unnamed jacka$$.

Ramble~On
12-18-2007, 17:16
I probably would have tactfully said something like "I used to do that but a ranger who was in the campsite told me it wasn't a good thing to do and went on to explain why............

Smile
12-18-2007, 17:25
On one camping trip, Cheif Halftown went with us.

Cheif Halftown! Wow, I remember him well, it's a small world :)

Cuffs
12-18-2007, 17:28
I probably would have tactfully said something like "I used to do that but a ranger who was in the campsite told me it wasn't a good thing to do and went on to explain why............

Well, this little event was just the topper, he was already on my turd list for prior stupidity... I would probably had a hissy fit on his a$$ if I had opened my mouth!

Ramble~On
12-18-2007, 17:40
:rolleyes: Duct tape. Remember to bring lots of duct tape.
:eek: or lime and a big shovel!

Sudoku
12-18-2007, 18:01
I have a friend who comes from NW Jersey and he was so happy for me to go on my hike because I got to experience Jersey apart from the usual Turnpike I knew it for. Jersey's beautiful - NY's got the trash. Sorry to say it but it was glaringly terrible.

- Sudoku

dessertrat
12-18-2007, 18:04
When I do my "one day Maryland challenge" hike this Spring, I will bring a trash bag along and take any trash I see to the nearest trash can. I would encourage more day hikers to do the same. (I am not saying that multi-day hikers shouldn't also pick up extra trash, but they are already carrying more weight).

bfitz
12-18-2007, 18:12
wow...what's with all the Jersey Hate??? I've been LOTS of places in this beautiful country, and if you are gonna try to tell me that trash in the woods is a jersey thing... you are sadly mistaken or haven't gotten out much.Naw, the northern half of my family (the half whose bloodline has been desecrated by Italian influence..) lives there...there's a lot of (loving) rivalry between the north and south. I must always mock jersey....it's kinda fun, also...:p (I must confess I'm a closet springsteen fan, and old school Bon Jovi...)

rafe
12-18-2007, 18:25
Nice to see the culture wars are alive and well on Whiteblaze. :rolleyes: Not that I expected any different.

Lone Wolf
12-18-2007, 18:27
the south's gonna rise agin! :banana

bfitz
12-18-2007, 18:27
Yee haw!

rafe
12-18-2007, 18:34
the south's gonna rise agin! :banana

Shoulda just let' em go. :rolleyes: Who needs 'em?

bfitz
12-18-2007, 19:11
Shoulda just let' em go. :rolleyes: Who needs 'em?
You shoulda been president in 1861.

lunchbx
12-19-2007, 08:53
Being from Jersey, I don't think the two idiots represent everyone from NJ. In fact, most of the trail I've seen in NE PA is far dirtier than NJ. Have you been anywhere near Bake Oven? I don't blame PA'ers, but slobs... they come in all ages, shapes, sizes and colors.

p.s. There plenty of non dopers who ain't very productive either.

this is the spot where most jersey people go to "party camp" since there are no fires allowed on the NJ side. lol

I am aware that not everyone from jersey is a careless slob. I am born and raised northern new jersey. though my parents really dont care much for the environment they did support me completley when i was a child and let me do things like join scouts and go on hiking trips so i did have older authority figures to teach me the difference. I dont mean to anger any other jersey folks on WB but if you lived in the area the i live and witnessed the disgusting general behavior of the majority of people my age (20-25ish) then you would draw inferences as well.

take-a-knee
12-19-2007, 09:18
the south's gonna rise agin! :banana

Yeah, what's rising is real estate prices down south from all of the NE Yankees moving south. The NE US is depopulating.

I fish and paddle as well as hike, trash scattered everywhere is nothing new, some people are just losers, Yanks and Rebels alike.

Fannypack
12-19-2007, 09:18
..and free diseases, crabs, etc.
speaking from experience, huh?

rafe
12-19-2007, 09:30
Yeah, what's rising is real estate prices down south from all of the NE Yankees moving south. The NE US is depopulating.

Too bad the water level at Lake Lanier isn't rising, eh? I'll take my chances with the northeast, thank you. ;)

take-a-knee
12-19-2007, 15:10
Too bad the water level at Lake Lanier isn't rising, eh? I'll take my chances with the northeast, thank you. ;)

Yeah, that isn't stopping them from coming, Lake Lanier feeds mostly the city of Atlanta, out in the burbs the counties did a bit better planning, they have their own water resevoirs, most of which are full of some hefty largemouth bass. Atlanta has the smallest drainage area (the L. Lanier watershed) per capita of any city in the nation. They deserve to get thirsty.

Javasanctum
12-19-2007, 16:09
Every year we take foreign exchange students into our home. They are always quickly introduced to the AT. Educating them on LNT is part of it. We must accept our duty to clean up behind these folks and expect to baby-sit. Depending on your tact and delivery methods, I find this is usually a short process. Before leaving they get the speech. During the hike I stop everyone and march him to the spot of offence and we don’t move until it is undone. This works with my adult friends as well. Patience and persistence is the key.
They usually go back to their countries and start hiking in the Alps or the glaciers of Tajikistan (And making me jealous in the process) with an appreciation for LNT. Europeans are usually shocked that some Americans actually make a big deal about LNT. I guess they think we are all from New Jersey. JUST KIDDING… Every human is as different as snowflakes and their location has little to do with it.

minnesotasmith
12-19-2007, 19:30
Q: Why does New Jersey have the most toxic waste dumps in the U.S., while California has the most lawers?

A: Because New Jersey got first pick.

Hooch
12-19-2007, 19:32
Q: Why does New Jersey have the most toxic waste dumps in the U.S., while California has the most lawers?

A: Because New Jersey got first pick.

Speaking for someone who loves lawyer jokes, that's funny. Really funny! My turn:

What's the difference between a lawyer and a catfish?

One's a scum-sucking bottom feeder, the other's just a fish. :D

Lellers
12-19-2007, 20:33
Just chiming in for New Jerseyans. I grew up in South Jersey, right on the river. Even in the shadow of an oil refinery I learned to take care of the environment. It was just a part of our upbringing when I was a kid.

I really believe that you haven't lived until you've spent some time in the Pine Barrens. It's so unique that it enjoys international protection. And in the most densely populated state in the nation, you can lose yourself completely in a place that averages just a couple people per square mile. And most of them are in Hammonton. (mmmmm Now I'm thinking 'bout REAL blueberries!)

And yeah! Chief Halftown! That must have been pretty cool. Sally Starr lived in South Jersey, too! I wonder if Our Gal Sal ever camped?

Appalachian Tater
12-19-2007, 20:36
Every year we take foreign exchange students into our home. They are always quickly introduced to the AT. Educating them on LNT is part of it. We must accept our duty to clean up behind these folks and expect to baby-sit. Depending on your tact and delivery methods, I find this is usually a short process. Before leaving they get the speech. During the hike I stop everyone and march him to the spot of offence and we don’t move until it is undone. This works with my adult friends as well. Patience and persistence is the key.
They usually go back to their countries and start hiking in the Alps or the glaciers of Tajikistan (And making me jealous in the process) with an appreciation for LNT. Europeans are usually shocked that some Americans actually make a big deal about LNT. I guess they think we are all from New Jersey. JUST KIDDING… Every human is as different as snowflakes and their location has little to do with it.


The default font (Verdana) is very legible for a sans-serif, but the Arial Narrow font and small size you used is very difficult to read. Your post is very interesting but I couldn't read it until I reposted it.

Smile
12-19-2007, 20:40
And yeah! Chief Halftown! That must have been pretty cool. Sally Starr lived in South Jersey, too! I wonder if Our Gal Sal ever camped?

I doubt Our Gal Sal ever camped, not far from a liquor store anyway, very sad thing. I was actually on the Sally Star show one day back in 68 I believe it was, I really wanted to meet Cheif Halftown, but the closest I got was Cowtown.

New Jersey is an interesting state, Medford Lakes was a blast to hang out at, lots of cool 'parade of floats' on the lakes, pines and generally a camping feeling in that area. :)

bigboots
12-19-2007, 21:15
I know several folks from Jersey (my father included), and it depends on each person. Some love the environment and others don't think twice about it. But I'm here to defend those from NJ. I have traveled a little and all major cities have their problems and problem people. I would like someone to tell me of one place (city of any size over a population of 3) that everyone that resides there follows LNT exactly.
I cant think of any...:-?

Bigboots

jhick
12-19-2007, 22:29
Hey Lellers.... ever go to Apple Pie Hill?

Tinker
12-19-2007, 22:38
the south's gonna rise agin! :banana

LW, you're a Yankee! :D

(Me, too, but I love the South).

Lellers
12-19-2007, 22:53
Hey Lellers.... ever go to Apple Pie Hill?

Oh, yeah! The high point of the Pines! What's it, like 10 feet above sea level?

I love the flat lands!

I love taking my Pennsylvania boy scouts into the Pines. Picture this: Floating down the Batsto from Hampton Furnace to Lower Forge. Set up camp, have dinner, and then the boys decide to hang food because they've been warned that the the site is often visited by masked marauders during the night.

At that point, I go sit in my beached kayak and watch the show. Being from Pennsylvania, they think that all camping involves rocks and roots. They decide to hang food the same way they hang their bear bags in Pennsy. One of 'em shouts, "Get some rocks for the rock bag." I'm telling you, they'll walk around for 30 minutes or more looking for rocks, and I just sit there and smile. Finally, I'll offer a bounty of $20 for every rock they find. And they run around like crazy looking for rocks. (Yeah, it's probably hazing. Go ahead and report me. :D )

Lellers
12-19-2007, 23:00
Just wanted to point out a point of New Jersey nomenclature etiquette.

It's NEW Jersey. Not Jersey. South Jersey is acceptable. North Jersey is acceptable. Jersey is a place in England. You do hear "Jersey" a lot in the north, but people from South Jersey don't really consider that New Jersey, so let them lose their souls. They're animals anyway.

The only REAL New Jersey is South Jersey! :sun

Alligator
12-20-2007, 00:04
Just wanted to point out a point of New Jersey nomenclature etiquette.

It's NEW Jersey. Not Jersey. South Jersey is acceptable. North Jersey is acceptable. Jersey is a place in England. You do hear "Jersey" a lot in the north, but people from South Jersey don't really consider that New Jersey, so let them lose their souls. They're animals anyway.

The only REAL New Jersey is South Jersey! :sunThat's a load of nonsense Piney;) . South Jersey gets smaller and smaller every year.

Lellers
12-20-2007, 01:05
That's a load of nonsense Piney;) . South Jersey gets smaller and smaller every year.

I just want to make this perfectly clear. I'm not a Piney. I'm a River Rat. :p

jhick
12-20-2007, 08:18
I just want to make this perfectly clear. I'm not a Piney. I'm a River Rat. :p
I am a Piney.:cool:

oldfivetango
12-20-2007, 09:09
LW, you're a Yankee! :D

(Me, too, but I love the South).

You don't have to be born here to be a Southerner.
We have an acid test for Southerness.
Do you eat grits and hold the door for person behind
you at the Post Office?
Oldfivetango

JAK
12-20-2007, 09:15
I cleaned up a beach once. (PM me to send medals.)

What amazed me was this one spot where some dude seemed to come every day in his can to admire the view while having a cigarrette and coffee. Exact same spot. A pile of Tim Horton mugs and cigarrette buts. Nice view.

Frolicking Dinosaurs
12-20-2007, 09:16
LW and Wonder have been re-programmed and are no longer Yankees. You must read the Hillbilly Yard Sale (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=24478)thread from last year for details of how this was accomplished.

NICKTHEGREEK
12-20-2007, 09:17
Maybe we can hire Blackwater operators to be LNT Enforcement Agents on the AT?
Yeah, they'll spend 20% of the time enforcing LNT and 80% of the time picking up brass.:)

4eyedbuzzard
12-20-2007, 09:20
Just wanted to point out a point of New Jersey nomenclature etiquette.

It's NEW Jersey. Not Jersey. South Jersey is acceptable. North Jersey is acceptable...
The only REAL New Jersey is South Jersey! :sun

North Jersey = bennies
South Jersey = pineys

I'm from "down the shore".;)

Alligator
12-20-2007, 13:17
I am a Piney.:cool:Some of my best friends are Pineys:) .

You know you are from NJ if you've seen this list (http://soli.inav.net/~catalyst/Humor/jersey.htm):) .

Brushy Sage
12-20-2007, 21:08
When I bought a home in the Maryland mountains back in the 1970s, an old mountain man showed me through the forest. As we walked along, he threw trash as if it was the thing to do. I picked it up, and he looked at me. He also broke off foliage with abandon. I couldn't fix that. He became a very good neighbor -- just from a different generation with different values.