keyboard options for journaling?

[V8]

Okay, I get the virtue of small all-in-one phones, with email built in, but I don't get how you type any decent journal-length stuff on that tiny a keyboard. Text messaging, sure, but actual journaling??
Would some folks who have actually done this fill us in:
Do you have to use thumbs-only? Hunt and peck? What about using all finger like on a regular keyboard? It's SO much faster - hate to lose that option.

Pocketmail size device seems perfect, but also nearly obsolete. Extra keyboard sounds like more fuss than its worth, hence the questions about phones.

(I put this question in the Laptop thread, but it got buried, and I think a lot of people are interested in this. Could be wrong)

Also, mention the make and model of what you used - that'll help, too.
Thanks.

[CoyoteWhips]

You didn't say what brand your cell phone was. Some phones have optional light folding keyboards. I've used one for my pda and even though it was smaller than a full size keyboard, it worked fine.

[kayak karl]

Okay, I get the virtue of small all-in-one phones, with email built in, but I don't get how you type any decent journal-length stuff on that tiny a keyboard. Text messaging, sure, but actual journaling??
Would some folks who have actually done this fill us in:
Do you have to use thumbs-only? Hunt and peck? What about using all finger like on a regular keyboard? It's SO much faster - hate to lose that option.

Pocketmail size device seems perfect, but also nearly obsolete. Extra keyboard sounds like more fuss than its worth, hence the questions about phones.

(I put this question in the Laptop thread, but it got buried, and I think a lot of people are interested in this. Could be wrong
Also, mention the make and model of what you used - that'll help, too.
Thanks.

at work we had a keyboard that plugged into our blackberrys. it was big and bulky, but i liked for lomg e-mails.
this one appears to be lighter http://www.mobiletechreview.com/tips/flexis.htm
was looking at it for my moto-Q. wouldn't take on trail. but maybe bounce box. i couldn't find the weight

[Hammock Hanger]

When I used my PocketPC I used the stylus. It get easier once you get use to doing it. However, I found that I could ot keep it charged long enough and went back to my Pocketmail. -- Unfortunately the day of the payphone is waning and gettting harder and harder to find. Also, when you do fine one not all will accept the pocketmail.

Good luck with your phone. A friend of mine has decided to leave the pocketmail at home and use his phone this year. I am waiting to see if his usually journal banter drops in size.

[fujiboots]

People might think me out there on this one, but I have been using the Alphasmart Neo as a journalling keyboard, and what can I say-it is perfect for journalling, 200 pages of text, less than two pounds (light, but I know its not as light as other options) oh and the 700 hours of battery life is a killer because it just keeps going. My two cents.

[Passionphish]

I am leaving for a thru in late march '08. I have used a Palm TX and a "Thinkoutside" Bluetooth keyboard on several overnighters and a couple of weekenders. The whole kit weighs 11-12 ounces. The screen on the TX is huge, and the key board is perfect! And I have BIG hands. If I journal every couple of days the battery on the PDA will last a week. Just my two cents!

[Roots]

V8 you are reading my mind!!! I was just looking last night at the Verizon store and at the pocketmail website trying to decide between the two. I'm not thru-hiking this year but I am doing Springer to Fontana and my husband and I will be doing as much sectioning as much as possible. Probably some week + hikes. I was wanting to just do the journaling from the trail rather than waiting and having to type all that in at once. It looks like, for me, that going with a pocketmail is the better option. The all-in-one cell will be too much for me to fork out at once-I'm broke due to a pre-teen and new equipment:D . I'm interested in seeing what everyone has to offer in advice. Good luck with your search!!

[kayak karl]

I am leaving for a thru in late march '08. I have used a Palm TX and a "Thinkoutside" Bluetooth keyboard on several overnighters and a couple of weekenders. The whole kit weighs 11-12 ounces. The screen on the TX is huge, and the key board is perfect! And I have BIG hands. If I journal every couple of days the battery on the PDA will last a week. Just my two cents!
since we are taking about pda's, batteriy life is an issue. has anybody tried solar chargers?
http://store.everythingq.com/content/accessories/5-58--3391.htm
1 hour sun light = 15 min on time. with backup battery in charger i would not need to plug in. if this is a good idea, somebody else has already done it:)

[Frosty]

People might think me out there on this one, but I have been using the Alphasmart Neo as a journalling keyboard, and what can I say-it is perfect for journalling, 200 pages of text, less than two pounds (light, but I know its not as light as other options) oh and the 700 hours of battery life is a killer because it just keeps going. My two cents.I love my NEO. I'm a big guy and my fingers/thumbs are much to large for a pocketmail keyboard. I write things besides journaling, and simply upload the files to my laptop when I get home.

Two pounds is a big weight penalty, but not the end of the world. It comes down to choices and what you want to do with your hike. I treat my NEO as I would an American Express card - I don't leave home without it.

http://alphasmart.com/products/neo_In.html

[V8]

V8 you are reading my mind!!! I was just looking last night at the Verizon store and at the pocketmail website trying to decide between the two. I'm not thru-hiking this year but I am doing Springer to Fontana and my husband and I will be doing as much sectioning as much as possible. Probably some week + hikes. I was wanting to just do the journaling from the trail rather than waiting and having to type all that in at once. It looks like, for me, that going with a pocketmail is the better option. The all-in-one cell will be too much for me to fork out at once-I'm broke due to a pre-teen and new equipment:D . I'm interested in seeing what everyone has to offer in advice. Good luck with your search!!

Roots - I gather that Pocketmail needs a land line to send data: so, you need either a payphone or a nice person who will let you call an 800 number on their landline. (as opposed to a data phone that transmits itself). Also, they are not available til at least March - out of stock, apparently. (and will they survive the technology revolution?). I don't have a cell phone yet like I am inquiring about, until after I get more info. on how to use it on the trail.

[V8]

I am leaving for a thru in late march '08. I have used a Palm TX and a "Thinkoutside" Bluetooth keyboard on several overnighters and a couple of weekenders. The whole kit weighs 11-12 ounces. The screen on the TX is huge, and the key board is perfect! And I have BIG hands. If I journal every couple of days the battery on the PDA will last a week. Just my two cents!

Thanks, just the kind of info I'm looking for.

[Roots]

That is definitely a big help to know. My sister has the EnV and loves it. She's one of those text queens. I do like the EnV's keyboard. It is a little smaller than the Pocketmail, but would definitely do the trick. I'm currently checking to see if it would be cheaper to order online. I tend to get pretty good reception on mountain tops in the Nantahala region. I have Verizon and have never had much reception difficulties. If I find anything out, I'll let you know.:)

[V8]

I just spent time looking up Palm Treo and service, and it looks like several hundred $$ for the Palm, and at least $100 a MONTH for the service to make it work. Hmm. Maybe not!!!

Back to Pocketmail, and finding hostels/motels with landline phones and good attitudes...if they can get 'em in stock in time for spring hike.

[Fannypack]

Back to Pocketmail, and finding hostels/motels with landline phones and good attitudes...if they can get 'em in stock in time for spring hike.
Pocketmail device is sometimes available on ebay.. I see one there now:
http://cgi.ebay.com/PocketMail-Composer-Mobile-E-Mail-Personal-Organizer_W0QQitemZ260195494549QQihZ016QQcategoryZ 38331QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[Roots]

I just checked to see how much the EnV would run me and I could only get 20% off on line. Better than nothing though. I guess I'll leave my options open for a little while. Christmas has drained the funds.:) Good luck! Let me know how your pocketmail does!

[Lilred]

or for the real gram weenies, you can use an invisible keyboard.



Invisible Keyboard
Keyboard that touches you ... on your fingers


Many people are becoming touch typists even tough they had no formal typing training. I've noticed that it's rare to see people hunting for keys these days - these are the users that the invisible would be best suited for.
The invisible keyboard would be a set of electronic caps or pads coveing the tips of your fingers. The most critical part of touch typing is tactile feedback. The feedback would be provided to your fingertips through the caps - making your fingers feel like they were moving over a keyboard based on your finger's location. Basically you could feel all the bumps of the keyboard with your fingers even though there was no keyboard in sight - all the info would be projected to your fingers based on their location in space. You would also get the sensation of pressing the key and releasing it. A sensor would detect your finger movements and translate them into key touches while providing you with the appropriate feedback.

Of course this will never be as efficient as a regular keyboard but it could have some very interesting applications. You could literarly type in mid air or on any flat or sloped surface (for greater comfort). No more fiddling with a stylus, no more strange and inneficient cell phone style input methods. Just let your fingers do the talking.

The down side would be another strange sight in the streets. Not only would you see people people apparently talking to themselves but their fingers would be twitching at an erie rate of 60 wpm.

Note that there is a similar idea where the keyboard is esentially a flat electronic sheet that you can roll up... the disadvantage of the roll up keyboard is that you can't really feel the keys. With invisible keyboard you would feel the keys + you would save even more space. As users got comfortable using this technology, it would quickly develop into form of sign language that could be used as computer input.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ixnaum, Sep 03 2005

[Tennessee Viking]

Okay, I get the virtue of small all-in-one phones, with email built in, but I don't get how you type any decent journal-length stuff on that tiny a keyboard. Text messaging, sure, but actual journaling??
Would some folks who have actually done this fill us in:
Do you have to use thumbs-only? Hunt and peck? What about using all finger like on a regular keyboard? It's SO much faster - hate to lose that option.

Pocketmail size device seems perfect, but also nearly obsolete. Extra keyboard sounds like more fuss than its worth, hence the questions about phones.

(I put this question in the Laptop thread, but it got buried, and I think a lot of people are interested in this. Could be wrong)

Also, mention the make and model of what you used - that'll help, too.
Thanks.Its been a while. But I did see some PalmPilots or Blackberrys with a small keyboard setup.

Look for a PDA with handwriting recognition.

[Passionphish]

Staples or Office Max/depot just pulled all PDA's off the shelf due to a MAJOR lack of interest. Since the Crackberrys and other "do it all" phones have hit the market, the need for PDA's have plummeted. This means that they are going to get real cheap real soon. The "think outside" keyboards come with MANY different drivers and have support for many more devices through their website. The keyboard alone weighs 6 oz (on my home scale). We have a couple of months before we start walking. Save your money, wait for someone to hock their PDA for the next biggest thing and save on the price! Or grab someone looking to upgrade their well loved crackberry. It won't be hard to make the keyboard fit with the device you choose. As long as the device has bluetooth that is.
Oh, and another thing. The two AAA batteries the keyboard uses, haven't run out in 4 months. I use it often but not frequently. I hope this helps some one.

[V8]

Thanks for the PDA comments. One more question - how do you transmit the data you've carefully journaled into the PDA?

[1Pint]

I just checked to see how much the EnV would run me and I could only get 20% off on line. Better than nothing though. I guess I'll leave my options open for a little while. Christmas has drained the funds.:) Good luck! Let me know how your pocketmail does!

I picked up an EnV for free from Verizon. I was at the end of my contract so I had a $99 credit towards a new phone if I signed a new contract. The EnV was running for $99 online with free shipping. Best thing about it is that my monthly contract stays the same ($39.99/mn for just the basic plan with no texting, etc) until I actually hit the trail. Then I just need to call Verizon and tell them to increase my plan to include texting /emailing/websurfing for the length of my hike. As long as I pay for the increased service for 3 months, I can drop back down to the $39/mn when I'm done with needing the email functions. If you go with a Blackberry or similar, you are locked in to the higher monthly plan year-round.

As for a keyboard, you asked for personal experience... I don't have that but I was distracted by the techie in Live Free or Die Harder (or whatever Bruce Willis' movie was called) who pulled out the roll-up mat-style keyboard. I started wondering how much that would weigh and whether it's available for a reasonable price... anybody used one?

[Passionphish]

My TX has a SD memory card slot. Everything I journal goes there. It gets swapped into the computer in the next sync. Or if I want it to go to the web fast, I just pull my data off the card via an SD slot on the side. Then it goes straight to the web!
Other options are uplink via bluetooth or the wireless web that the TX comes with. I have written a post sitting at a sandwich shop. So There are many options!

-Passionphish

[berninbush]

Here are a couple of fun keyboard options:

http://www.thinkgeek.com/computing/input/6c82/

http://www.thinkgeek.com/computing/input/8193/

[Powder River]

Funny y'all should bring this up. I just got this little question resolved for my upcoming thru hike. I was up in the air between pocketmail or a smartphone + keyboard. The pocketmail was cheaper overall, but I also was kicking around bringing a phone anyways. In the end, I stumbled upon a sale on Amazon for the igo ultra-slim stowaway keyboard for 30 bucks. It's normally listed for something like 150, so this was a steal. Currently it looks like it went up to $56.

http://www.amazon.com/OUTSIDE-XTBTUE-ACCESSORY-STOWAWAY-BLUETOOTH/dp/B000CDHWQA/ref=pd_bbs_3?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1199141438&sr=8-3

This is the same keyboard mentioned above. It's 6 ounces with batteries, and it feels really good to type on and seems durable. I connect it to my Cingular 2125 smartphone. On the trail, I plan on posting to my wordpress.com blog via email, and the whole system should work smoothly. Photos will be mailed home on SD cards and uploaded to Flickr by my support team (parents), which connects to the blog via an RSS feed.

I think the real advantage of the smartphone over the pocketmail is going to be the convenience of not having to search for payphones, having a better keyboard, and real email capabilities. The phone itself will be a bonus for obvious reasons, plus I'll be able to google the nearest pizza place I'm sure.

The price of using this setup is slightly higher than pocketmail, because of the plan. AT&T will not let me drop voice completely and use it for just data. So I will be downgrading to a 29.99 per month voice plan for 200 anytime minutes, plus keep my 19.99 unlimited data plan. (this data plan is no longer offered.) I will probably drop text messaging, and just try to refrain from using text. So total I will pay about $60 per month (including taxes and fees) for six months totalling $360. Because I already owned the phone and have that $20 data plan this is a lot cheaper than otherwise. Compared to a pocketmail for around $200 (including service) the extra $160 or so is worth it to me to carry the phone. Weight is about 10 ounces total.

Hope this helps someone!

Jeff

[Passionphish]

Yep! That's ma' keyboard! I do love to type on it!

[SunnyWalker]

I have had two Palms and my current one is a TX. However, I am impressed with the Pocketmail devices. I don't think finding a phone is a problem. What impresses me about the Pocketmail devices is the battery life. It seems incredible to me in comparison to battery in my TX. I am wondering if my TX and the keyboard would weigh more than a Pocketmail? -SunnyWalker

[judypudy]

I had an enV on my section hike from Harper's Ferry through the Whites last year. I did my trail journal with it (e-mailed it home where a transcriber cut and pasted it to trailjournals).

Yes, I had to use thumbs, but it really didn't bother me. The only thing was, the email size was limited to a certain number of characters, so a typical journal entry for a day would take 2-3 emails.

I looked at the Treo and the Motorola Q but their plans would be ~$60 a month and you had to commit to a plan for a certain amount of time (like a year) whereas the enV was an additional $15 dollars a month for unlimited email. (which you can turn on/off at any time by calling Verizon)The enV didn't get complete internet access but I could get weather through the internet and do email so it worked for me.

Battery life - LG says it has something like 19 days standby time and I forget how much on-air life. So if I just used it to email and phone it would be fine for a week to ten days so until I had a town day. (carried the charger with me)

The signal from Verizon was generally good - there were some blind spots in MD and NJ and no coverage in the Whites. I had messed around a bit with how to journal when I couldn't get coverage - there is a notepad function that you can use but I never really figued out how to get something from the notepad to an email. (although maybe someone more clever or persistent could figure it out ) So if I didn't have coverage I wouldn't journal until the next time I had coverage. (with a PDA you could do your journal in Word and then send it as an attachment when you get coverage)

It took me a while to figure out that I could get a better signal on top of a mountain (like during the middle of the day) than in a valley (where I might be at night) .... duh.

The buttons on it can make it turn on when inside your pack. I had a small water-tight tupperware-type container that I got at the grocery store (after trying a bunch of outfitters) that I carried the enV in so it wouldn't turn on and so it wouldn't get wet.

The email screen pops up with hotmail, yahoo, and aol, so it is much easier to get into your email if you have an email account with one of those 3.

I had some 'real life' things to keep track of while hiking so it was important to have it. Also, it was a big boost to get emails from friends and family (and my trailjournals guest book). Worked well for me.

[V8]

These are very helpful comments! I'm not convinced that all-in-one is the way to go, since failure causes you to lose everything. But then, it's weight-efficient.

I always have hand-written the journals for other trips, and like someone said, it makes a great project for those tent-bound hours, and also gives you something to read... but that was for a few days to a week at a time. Now, I'm planning to send it home for transcribing, and the easier I can make it, the better.

Seems like there would be a market for a word-processor the size of pocketmail, maybe a little bigger, that puts data on SD card. Mail that home, or transfer and send when you have use of computer. It would be nice to have a screen that shows more than one or two lines of text. I think Frosty mentioned something like this, but it seems heavier than I want to devote to this - (compared to notebook and pen).

All the other stuff that smartphones (?) offer is not stuff I'm willing to pay big bucks for anyway, much less on the trail.

Still looking for a pocketmail, too -(update: found pocketmail on Amazon)

[SunnyWalker]

I did not say it earlier, but I would not want to take my (precious and expensive) Palm on the trail. Thats why the Pocketmail appealed to me (along with good batt life). Just a thought. -SunnyWalker

[Butterflymoon]

From past experience (05') pocketmail and waiting till town to hit the computer seemed to be the way to go. Cell phone reception tended to be sketchy, but maybe a few more towers have been added to the mountain tops (I hope NOT). Most hikers ended up tossing their phones into bounce boxes. I'm planning on using my pocketmail again this year. It's convenient and a whole lot cheaper that a cell phone plan that would allow me to send emails.
Good luck in your search!