View Full Version : Camera Help...
88BlueGT
12-23-2007, 14:44
I'm looking to upgrade from my Sony Cybershot into a real camera... a D-SLR. I have no personal experience with these cameras at all. I went to a few stores and looked and the only ones that I played with were the Rebel XTI and the Pentax K10D.
I need something that is light, rugged, weather resistant, dust resistant, and as compact as possible. But I also want something thats going to take excellent pictures. I really liked the Pentax K10D but it was a little heavy for me, but it was weather/dust resistant so I guess I will have to weigh my options. Some of the cameras that I was considering was the Pentax K10D, Nikon D80 and the Olympus E-410 or 510. Does anyone know if the Olymus cameras listed are weather resistant and what their picture quality is like? The only reason why I was leaning towards them is because the E-410 is only 13oz's. Thats MUCH lighter than most other cameras. Comparing to the K10D its almost 13oz's lighter....
Thanks guys/gals.
Painted Turtle
12-23-2007, 14:49
I am thinking you want a D-SLR because you want to shot RAW. That is the only reason I moved up. But anyway lets start with a very good alternative to a D-SLR and that is the new Canon G9. Try this site:
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/specs/Canon/
Are you looking to carry this camera while hiking?
FWIW, I started out with a d-slr body (Canon) but because of the bulk/shape I quickly changed back to a point/shoot body style camera. I now tote the Canon G7, 10mp and plenty of manual functions to be close to the functions of a d-slr...
Painted Turtle
12-23-2007, 14:51
PS (YOU WILL GET A LOT OF THESE) Canon kit lens are the worst on the market look at spending xtra for a good lens
Painted Turtle
12-23-2007, 14:53
Are you looking to carry this camera while hiking?
FWIW, I started out with a d-slr body (Canon) but because of the bulk/shape I quickly changed back to a point/shoot body style camera. I now tote the Canon G7, 10mp and plenty of manual functions to be close to the functions of a d-slr...
FYI There is a software hack that lets your G-7 shot RAW. PS very good camera
88BlueGT
12-23-2007, 14:54
Yea, I see what you guys are saying but I really want to go with a D-SLR. Painted turtle, you are correct. But I defifinetly want to go with an SLR because I have always been into photography but just never had the money to get a nice camera. I want something with interchangeable lenses, the manual options, etc. This camera isnt just for the trail, it will be used alot long after the trail is over with. I just want it to work well with hiking because I plan on bringing it with me whenever I go out.
PT, can you PM me the info for that hack?!?! Please???!!
GT, where and how are you planning on carrying this large bodied camera? If you plan on taking pictures, better have it handy...
88BlueGT
12-23-2007, 14:56
Cuffs, yes I will be bringing this camera hiking. Thats why I wanted something thats highly weather resistant, dust resistant, etc. I'm planning a thru hike next year and plan on bringing it with me for that. But like I said in my previous post, it will be used ALOT long after Im done hiking.
88BlueGT
12-23-2007, 14:58
GT, where and how are you planning on carrying this large bodied camera? If you plan on taking pictures, better have it handy...
I plan on carrying it in my ruck when I'm not using it of coarse and depending on what ruck I go with for my thru hike I'm going to try and find something with large side pockets that would be able to hold onto it when Im not hiking it and if I didnt have it on my neck.
Painted Turtle
12-23-2007, 15:02
PT, can you PM me the info for that hack?!?! Please???!!
I will send you the info but I am on my laptop and it is on my other computer.
I used the one that works with the S3 IS and it work fine. Only problem is finding Software that supports the RAW file. I use CS2 and it would not handle it. A friend has CS3 and that would not handle it. I ended up with Public Domian Stuff that was ok.
Painted Turtle
12-23-2007, 15:07
This is a hard and going to be a long discussion. At times I carry my Rebel. A camera is NO good in your pack. So I devised a harness that works with my pack and use a photographers harness to keep it right in front and handy.
Again the Canon XTI is a good camera, but the lens sucks. The Nikon D80 is a little better but does not have the self cleaning. Go to that website I listed you can call them up side by side and campare cameras. Also do NOT get carried away with megapixils. There is a direct relationship to them and the size of the sensor. You you plan on keeping your pictures to 8X10 or less an 8 megapixil camers will do the job.
GT, I would suggest you try hiking with a 2# block hanging around your neck for 10 miles... I think you will find that it is not going to work. If it put away in your pack, you will miss lots of great shots... Its bulk will be a negative. I think you will find that a superior point/shoot like the G9 will be great for your thru hike.
After your hike, sell the camera, then get the d-slr and lenses. I used to stop at every flower/leaf/tree/rock/bug/poop on the trail until I got too tired of pulling the camera out, taking photos, putting it away... I have great shots of the really important stuff with the G7. I just dont want to see you having regreted such a large bulky and heavy piece of gear 2 weeks into your hike. (plus, having a smaller camera actually speeds up your hiking time, trust me on this! Ive gotten to camp alot sooner than I would have carrying the old Pro 1!)
Painted Turtle
12-23-2007, 15:17
PT, can you PM me the info for that hack?!?! Please???!!
Just sent you the link
Painted Turtle
12-23-2007, 15:21
I guess seeing that you want to go D-SLR you are going to process your own pictures. That means a good software program. That means another $500.00. Not counting books and other helpfull learning tools.
88BlueGT
12-23-2007, 15:27
GT, I would suggest you try hiking with a 2# block hanging around your neck for 10 miles... I think you will find that it is not going to work. If it put away in your pack, you will miss lots of great shots... Its bulk will be a negative. I think you will find that a superior point/shoot like the G9 will be great for your thru hike.
After your hike, sell the camera, then get the d-slr and lenses. I used to stop at every flower/leaf/tree/rock/bug/poop on the trail until I got too tired of pulling the camera out, taking photos, putting it away... I have great shots of the really important stuff with the G7. I just dont want to see you having regreted such a large bulky and heavy piece of gear 2 weeks into your hike. (plus, having a smaller camera actually speeds up your hiking time, trust me on this! Ive gotten to camp alot sooner than I would have carrying the old Pro 1!)
I see what you are saying about having it hanging from your neck the entire time and getting uncomfortable. I guess the second best option will be a side pocket in my ruck that would be able to hold the camera tightly without having to worry about it falling out, etc. etc.
88BlueGT
12-23-2007, 15:28
I guess seeing that you want to go D-SLR you are going to process your own pictures. That means a good software program. That means another $500.00. Not counting books and other helpfull learning tools.
This is not a problem......
88BlueGT
12-23-2007, 15:29
I guess seeing that you want to go D-SLR you are going to process your own pictures. That means a good software program. That means another $500.00. Not counting books and other helpfull learning tools.
This is not a problem...... also, by the time I go on my thru hike I will be close to having my degree in Digital Media w/ concentrations in digital photography and web design so I hopefully I will know exactally what I'm doing :)
There was at least one thru-hiker wannabe this summer who started from Springer with a nice DSLR and a few lenses. I believe he reported back that this was (in retrospect) a mistake.
Sad to say, from my own experience, you can make good miles or you can take really good photographs, but you can't do both at once. I'll occasionally take a big heavy camera out on a day hike, but for long hikes, it's going to be a small, light point & shoot.
Painted Turtle
12-23-2007, 15:36
I see what you are saying about having it hanging from your neck the entire time and getting uncomfortable. I guess the second best option will be a side pocket in my ruck that would be able to hold the camera tightly without having to worry about it falling out, etc. etc.
It took me all of ME and NH section hiking to finaly get it to the point where it would only start to bother me after about 12 miles and seeing that I only like to do 10 - 12 miles a day that was right. But then again that is a lot of miles in NH and ME. This past summer I did a couple of 15 and 18 mile days in PA and it was just ok. It is not something that you will be able to get right with out a lot of testing.
88BlueGT
12-23-2007, 15:39
There was at least one thru-hiker wannabe this summer who started from Springer with a nice DSLR and a few lenses. I believe he reported back that this was (in retrospect) a mistake.
Sad to say, from my own experience, you can make good miles or you can take really good photographs, but you can't do both at once. I'll occasionally take a big heavy camera out on a day hike, but for long hikes, it's going to be a small, light point & shoot.
Sorry, but I just dont agree with that. Yes, if you are stopping every 10 mintues and taking 5 mintues to take pictures your not going to get anywhere but I dont plan on doing that. I dont plan on taking a ton of pictures but for the pictures that I do take I want them to have professional quality. As for lenses, I dont plan on carrying a few lenses. More like a 18-300mm or a 30-300mm. Something with a good variety of range in it. I figure about 10oz's for the lens and about 1lb for the camera itself I shouild be around 2lbs with everything.
Painted Turtle
12-23-2007, 15:43
Oh by the way the G9 is on my list to buy in April. It will be going with me on my trips this summer and the D-SLR will be staying home.
Painted Turtle
12-23-2007, 15:50
Ok here is what to consider. Get the XTI body only get the below lens and call it quits. Good dealer:
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Sorry, but I just dont agree with that.
You don't have to agree or disagree. I'm stating my experience from thirty years of tromping the AT, and a lifelong interest in phtography. I've even sold photos for a while. You can see a few of them here (http://www.terrapinphoto.com/).
88BlueGT
12-23-2007, 18:50
Those are some very nice pictures.
Does anyone have any comments on the Olympus E-410 or E-510?
Those are some very nice pictures.
Thanks. And if you run across this book (http://www.amazon.com/301-Inkjet-Tips-Techniques-Photographers/dp/1598632043/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1198450877&sr=8-1), check out pages 456 and 458. (A couple more of mine.)
A few comments.
The main reason , by definition, that most want to buy an SLR is to See Through the Lens. With that,generally you get interchangeable lenses and full manual control. As good as the Canon G9 is ( or isn't depending on your view) the aperture range, sharpness,resolution and low light performance, does not match most (if any) digital SLR available now. To state that the reason for buying an SLR is so that one can shoot RAW and therefore one can use a compact is at best patronizing, considering there was no mention of that in the first post. I have met plenty of keen amateurs and pros that shoot mostly JPEGs.
Also that bit of sarcasm, "get the Canon 70-200mm F2.8" , does not help.
It is a great lens, but at 45oz I cannot see the relevance.
The best pictures tend to be taken with the tool of choice. That can be just about any camera on the market. Often enough I have had customers raving on about the quality of their camera only to have the next guy declaring that it is a piece of rubbish. I do get the point of portability, and that is exactly why (bushwalking) I use a camera that is a compromise and consistently delivers "snapshots" and never pictures. So in my case it's better than nothing, but if I wanted to really take great photographs, a compact would not do.Again it does not mean that it isn't possible; for example I did a review of the Ricoh GX100 and raved about it, but as soon as I pick up an SLR I take better shots.
Franco
Wanderingson
12-24-2007, 10:00
88,
Perhaps you should direct your specific outdoor photography gear questions to a more suitable forum. Although you may be planning a thru-hike, I'm not too familiar with how many folks have thru'ed with a heavy,bulky D-SLR. I certainly wouldn't do it with mine.
Here's a great link for anoutdoor photography forum:
http://www.outdooreyes.com/phpBB2/index.php
A few things to consider when considering a D-SLR or another compact digital:
1. Although lens interchangability may be desireable to get the shot, Additional lens add to your weight and bulk.
2. Weather will beat the snot out of a D-SLR over an extended period of time.
3. Every time you change lenses, you run the risk of contaminating your sensor. Cleaning a sensor is not always handy on the trail.
4. Any D-SLR is only the body. Your glass is what makes the shot. I would not risk damaging my lenses on the trail.
Many other things to consider, but get some advise from other photoprahers.
I have a Canon SD900 ELPH I carry when a D-SLR is not practical and get some really awesome shots from this one at 10MP.
Good luck in finding your solutions.
canerunner
12-24-2007, 11:16
I guess seeing that you want to go D-SLR you are going to process your own pictures. That means a good software program. That means another $500.00. Not counting books and other helpfull learning tools.
That depends. ;)
If one is a Linux user, instead of something of the MicroS**** virus line, some very good software is available as open source (free to use) that will do almost anything any of the commercial (high dollar) software will.
I am a dedicated Linux user, and have several really good image manipulation tools on my computer. GIMP (Graphic Image Manipulation Program) is the one that is best known, and it has the ability to do almost anything that Photoshop can do.
I am a dedicated Linux user, and have several really good image manipulation tools on my computer. GIMP (Graphic Image Manipulation Program) is the one that is best known, and it has the ability to do almost anything that Photoshop can do.
What is the current state of color management (the ICC kind) on Linux? How are the drivers for the latest Epson, Canon and HP printers -- now that most of them have moved well beyond CMYK inks?
Regardless if one has extra lenses or not, the advantages of a digital SLR over a compact cameras can still be worth the weight.
Comparing the Canon G9 (as an example of one of the few decent compacts) to the Olympus E410, for the extra 10 oz you get :
Accurate framing under any light
Faster reaction time
Much larger CCD ( better enlargements)
Much better action/macro/landscape and portrait shots
(i.e. anything that is not happy snappy)
Full range of apertures and shutter speeds
Wider wide angle (less tele...)
Filter thread (UV and polarizer are recommended)
My advice to 88BlueGt is to get the Olympus (or the Pentax K10 for some extra safety) and to store it in a "bum bag" turned to the front. Just put the rain jacket on top if needed.
As far as damaging the camera, (providing that the standard lens is not removed) the chance is the same as with any non weatherized compact.
Ideally we should have an all weather non interchangeable 24-135mm equivalent SLR, with an APS or 4/3rd sized sensor ( similar to the "analogue" Olympus IS200 in design) but such beast does not exist
Franco
I guess seeing that you want to go D-SLR you are going to process your own pictures. That means a good software program. That means another $500.00. Not counting books and other helpfull learning tools.
Not quite Adobe Photoshop but FREE.
www.getpaint.net
The Old Fhart
12-25-2007, 00:01
_terrapin_"Sad to say, from my own experience, you can make good miles or you can take really good photographs, but you can't do both at once."
....
_”Thanks. And if you run across this book (http://www.amazon.com/301-Inkjet-Tips-Techniques-Photographers/dp/1598632043/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1198450877&sr=8-1), check out pages 456 and 458. (A couple more of mine.)”
Not only is it difficult to take good photos because you’re trying to make good miles on a thru hike, you never seem to be at the spot you want to photograph at the right time of day, the right weather, the right season, etc. It is not easy to get the type of photos you could get if you had the time to visit the area for a few days when the weather was just right and the foliage was what you wanted it to be.
One big advantage of a DSLR that hasn’t specifically been mentioned is that with the larger imager, your low-light photos will have far less noise. Blacks will appear blacker and not look like multi-colored salt and pepper. I chose the Pentax digital body because I had almost every lens from 8mm through 600mm from my film camera body that I could use on the DSLR. The shake reduction (SR) is built into the body, unlike Canon’s IS where it is in the lens, so any lens I put on can be a image stabilized lens. For hiking I could use one of the 18-250mm zooms would allow me to cover the range of focal lengths I'd probably need without changing lenses and running the risk of getting dust on the imager, which could show up in all subsequent shots if I didn't notice it.
And I have had some of my photos used as well. Check out ‘Classic Hikes of the World (http://www.classichikes.com/)’ by Peter Potterfield, the photos in chapter 8 (White Mountain Traverse) are mine and I edited the chapter as well.
TOF, thanks for the link to that book. I look forward to seeing your photos.
FWIW, I used to carry a 35mm SLR on the AT... but in those days I was content with far fewer miles per day. Mostly what I was trying to say in my last post is that the mindset one needs for thru-hiking (or just plain "making miles") is somewhat at odds with the mindset that's needed for truly great and unique photos. In particular, the latter requires time and patience, and in many cases, repeated visits to the same spot.
BTW, if any WB'ers from New England would like to get together some time for an AT outing specifically for taking photos... I'm in. Maybe I'll bring one of my monster cameras... the Pentax 6x7, or maybe the Shen-Hao 4x5. :) Or maybe I'll have a Canon 5D by then.
Finally... for anyone looking for truly awesome photos of the AT, it'd be hard to beat those by David Muench (http://www.amazon.com/Uncommon-Places-Celebration-Appalachian-Official/dp/0917953401/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1198557020&sr=8-1). Also, Jerry Greer (http://www.jerrygreerphotography.com/stock_photo_gallery1.htm) has some awesome AT photos shot with a 4x5.
take-a-knee
12-25-2007, 00:42
You don't have to agree or disagree. I'm stating my experience from thirty years of tromping the AT, and a lifelong interest in phtography. I've even sold photos for a while. You can see a few of them here (http://www.terrapinphoto.com/).
Very beautiful photos Terrapin.
88BlueGT
12-25-2007, 01:21
Thanks for all the suggetions guys. I think I am considering the Olympus E-510 comming in at 15oz's and a 18-180mm lens comming in at 15oz's also. I think I can live with having my equiptment at under 3lbs (approx. 1lb for cleaning equpitment & maybe carrying case... hopefully). Definetly not set in stone but thats a setup that I am considering right now. Keep the comments comming in though, Im learning alot:)
Well, here's a point nobody's made yet on this thread... it may turn out that the pictures you cherish most, years from now, are not the beautiful sunsets and wildflowers, but the people and friends and good times around the campfire.
A few years ago I "inherited" the vast collection of prints, slides, negatives etc. taken by my father during his 86 years on this planet. He traveled a lot, and like most wannabe Ansel Adams types, took lots of photos of mountains, sunsets, fountains, monuments, etc. Most of those went into the trash. The photos I kept were of people -- family, kin, and friends.
Painted Turtle
12-25-2007, 11:01
Not quite Adobe Photoshop but FREE.
www.getpaint.net (http://www.getpaint.net)
Neet, I will have to play with it.
I should of mentioned that Photoshop Elements which only goes for about $80.00 before rebates is a good program.
Painted Turtle
12-25-2007, 11:16
Not only is it difficult to take good photos because you’re trying to make good miles on a thru hike, you never seem to be at the spot you want to photograph at the right time of day, the right weather, the right season, etc. It is not easy to get the type of photos you could get if you had the time to visit the area for a few days when the weather was just right and the foliage was what you wanted it to be.
.
Boy that is so so right I have had the worst luck for that. Mahoosuc Notch pooring rain, Summitting Katahdin in rain and fog. Raining also at Lehigh Gap and the Delaware Water Gap just to mention a few. Then there is getting to a nice over look with the sun high. ND filter would help if I had one. Don't forget your Circular polarizer.
88BlueGT
12-26-2007, 12:24
i see what you are sayin terrapin and I totally agree, but theres no reason why I cant take pictures of a campfire with an SLR. i know for pictures like that a point and shoot would be alot more reasonable but they both have their ups and downs...
i see what you are sayin terrapin and I totally agree, but theres no reason why I cant take pictures of a campfire with an SLR. i know for pictures like that a point and shoot would be alot more reasonable but they both have their ups and downs...
Well, two pounds is two pounds. Let's see how you feel when you get to Fontana Dam... ;) You're a young-un, maybe the extra weight won't bother you. Took me a long time to get to "gram weenie," but it's one of the reasons I was finally able to finish the trail. Over those years, the weight of my hiking camera has consistently declined: Ricoh film SLR from '90-'01, Canon G2 from '02 to '05, Canon A620 in '06 and '07. (Even in '90, I left my Nikon FE at home in favor of the Ricoh, primarily because of the weight issue.)
BTW, the unmentioned elephant in the room is a tripod. We all know that the best landscape photos happen with the camera on a tripod... but I doubt you're going to carry one, I imagine. (Except maybe one of those 2 oz. plastic jobbers (http://www.rei.com/product/411006).)
I tote this little bugger around...
http://www.amazon.com/Vanguard-VS-10-Lightweight-Pocket-Tripod/dp/B0006GWIJY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1198689523&sr=8-1
Painted Turtle
12-26-2007, 13:31
BTW, the unmentioned elephant in the room is a tripod. We all know that the best landscape photos happen with the camera on a tripod... but I doubt you're going to carry one, I imagine. (Except maybe one of those 2 oz. plastic jobbers (http://www.rei.com/product/411006).)
I have tried the Gorilla Pod and it has many draw backs with a D-SLR. With my S3 IS it was just ok. But as you stated the magic ingrediant is the Tripod. There is no way to replace it for excellant pictures.
Thanks for all the suggetions guys. I think I am considering the Olympus E-510 comming in at 15oz's and a 18-180mm lens comming in at 15oz's also. I think I can live with having my equiptment at under 3lbs (approx. 1lb for cleaning equpitment & maybe carrying case... hopefully). Definetly not set in stone but thats a setup that I am considering right now. Keep the comments comming in though, Im learning alot:)
I think you already know but just in case-the 18-180 lens for the 510 is the equivalent of a 36-360 in 35 mm photography. I like a wide lens 28 (14 in 510 format) for many landscapes.