View Full Version : The Whites
ChinMusic
12-23-2007, 21:13
How hard are the Whites for a NOBO that already has well over a thousand miles on his/her soles?
Hey, fat old guys like me without a regular exercise regimen hike in them all the time. Most of the grades aren't that steep, only longer than you'll find most other places on the AT. The killer there is the weather. Sleet is possible any month in the Presidentials, wind is usually present, and when it's not, and it's sunny, you'll cook like a lobster in a pot.
Watch out for the underrated mountains in southern Maine, however. IMO, they're in many ways tougher. Steeper, more slippery, roots, mud, etc.
How hard are the Whites for a NOBO that already has well over a thousand miles on his/her soles?
If the weather's right, they're awesome. Steep, yeah, but nothing you can't handle with 1000 miles of AT under your feet already. Don't expect solitude, though, at least not in the "beauty spots."
Watch out for the underrated mountains in southern Maine, however. IMO, they're in many ways tougher. Steeper, more slippery, roots, mud, etc.
Not only that... but they offer what the Whites don't: a bit of solitude.
Not only that... but they offer what the Whites don't: a bit of solitude.
So true! - And that makes it all worthwhile.:)
Appalachian Tater
12-23-2007, 21:50
How hard are the Whites for a NOBO that already has well over a thousand miles on his/her soles?
Not hard at all. Once you get in shape, the A.T. is not a particularly difficult trail.
The weather in the Whites, as someone mentioned, can be treacherous--high winds in particular, combined with sharp "cheesegrater" rocks. But putting up with the crowds is probably the most difficult thing.
I don't think one ought to minimize the verticals in the Whites. I haven't thru-hiked the Whites, but I've covered a lot of that terrain several times over with day hikes and weekend hikes. I've walked consistent 15 mile days on other parts of the AT, but I wouldn't try to hold that pace in the Whites. 'Nuff said.
Blissful
12-23-2007, 23:11
Watch out for the underrated mountains in southern Maine, however. IMO, they're in many ways tougher. Steeper, more slippery, roots, mud, etc.
Absolutely agree.
There are parts of the Whites that are tough. But in good weather they are beautiful and mangageable. The trail down Madison is a bear and wore out my knees. I also wasn't fond of the Carter range, but we had bad weather, fog, and I was still tired out from being sick.
We heard from SOBOs about the nothernmost part of NH and southern Maine - seeing is believing.
Pedaling Fool
12-24-2007, 00:55
As a thru-hiker I never got fatigued transiting the Whites, despite the steep and rocky terrain; actually I never was fatigued in any part of NH or Maine. However, I did on a few occasions get annoyed by how slow I had to travel, because of the steep rocky ascents/descents, as well as those muddy bogs with sinking log bridges. I sunk down to my waist in one of those mud pits...
ChinMusic
12-24-2007, 01:01
So, for a "typical NOBO", one that is not in marathon shape at the start, is GA the toughest simply because it is first?
Kerosene
12-24-2007, 01:12
So, for a "typical NOBO", one that is not in marathon shape at the start, is GA the toughest simply because it is first?Yes, clearly. After sectioning through everything from Virginia through Vermont, Georgia was a piece of cake.
I didn't really have a problem with the elevation gains in the Whites as much as I did with the footing -- you rarely get the chance to maintain a good stride very long as you're continually rock hopping. In fact, I found some of the ascents easier (with the notable exception of South Kinsman) from a mph standpoint than the relatively level terrain, and I had incredibly nice weather. My average mph was consistently between 1.0 and 1.5, or about half what I typically average south of the Whites.
Pedaling Fool
12-24-2007, 01:18
Georgia and Southern North Carolina kicked my pansy a$$ in 2006. I thought Georgia was the sht, especially the Approach Trail. Then I returned this year for a trip from Springer to Damascus, no big deal.
On the trail, the Whites are incredibly talked-up in the couple hundred miles leading into the park. I met dozens of snooty SOBO's all through Vermont telling me how brutal the Whites were, and how they were already over the hump and sure to finish their hike. But, the thing is, this was the one and only piece of trail-rumor that, im my opinion, actually turned out to be true. I thought they were really, really, really difficult. Everything after Glencliff was like hitting a brick wall. I went from walking 30-34 mpd to 25 for five days in the Whites, but I was putting in significantly more effort.
The Whites are beautiful--hands down the best part of the trail, IMO. But I think it is a stretch to say that they will be "no problem" for a NOBO hiker, as if a day in the Whites is just like any other day. It is completely different; the mechanics of hiking completely change. It is not so much walking as climbing and stepping, if that makes sense. There is no rhythm.
double d
12-24-2007, 02:19
How hard are the Whites? Well...........you walk straight up one mountain, then you have the pleasure of lurching down from rock to rock a little and then, straight back up you go for another mountain! I found Carter Notch to be truly a great hike from Rt.16 to the Notch, but good Lord, it was a grind. This past June, I hiked in Northern Colorado and then in late summer, the Whites. Give me Colorado trails anyday of the week brother because the Whites were tough, but very fun and a great challange. As an old football coach of mine once said, "go hard or go home". The Whites will give you that challange.
So, for a "typical NOBO", one that is not in marathon shape at the start, is GA the toughest simply because it is first?
Well, it's not like it's "smooth sailing" once you get to Bly Gap. :rolleyes:
I was in decent shape and 37 yrs. old at Springer but hardly an athlete. I flew through Georgia, but I think it was the adrenaline that carried me through. After a few more weeks, the adrenaline gives out... and that's when the real work begins.
neighbor dave
12-24-2007, 10:21
:-? a wall of granite barely impenetrable by homonids, plus, nobody goes there anymore,they're too crowded;)
The Whites are great even if you are a day hiker. Once I am above tree line, I barely notice the difficulty of the climb because I am enjoying the the great views too much to notice.
Kirby
Jim Adams
12-26-2007, 19:07
To me the Whites were stenuous but I was in such good shape that it was no big deal...walking from Georgia will do that. OTOH, Georgia kicked my ass both thrus because I was so out of shape. To me Georgia is the most difficult because it is the first going NOBO.
You should have no problem with 1000 miles down. The crowds should not be a problem either. Although your speed will be slower, it more than likely will still be faster than the crowds...gives you more time to stop, look and enjoy.
geek
I've spent the better part of my adult life hiking/camping in the whites. It is my favorite place on earth. But like others have said, the whites can be a challenge, even for the hardened hiker.
If there was any place on teh trail id be willing to slow my pace to take in teh scenery, it would be the whites. It's also the area id blue blaze a lot in, because there are some incredible views.
On my last trip to the whites in October, myself and a friend got stuck coming down the flume slide trail at night. It was a really really bad decision on my part, but we wanted to camp below tree line. We ended up roping the packs down as carrying them over the water / moss covered rocks on a near verticle climb down was a bad idea..
We stood on the top of mt flume at about 4pm. With the sun going down we had 2 paths open to us. Forward over mt liberty to the liberty springs trail, or down the flume slide trail. Looking back, we should have just stayed on the summit and delt with the wind/cold. It would have been safer then going down the slide at night.
Not sure what my point here is, but the whites are a wonderful, beautiful place. Take your time going through, and hit some scenic blue blazes, you wont regret it.
Flume slide trail is insane. I've done it once. That was enough.
Going down the Flume Slide Trail with a heavy pack was the most difficult hiking I've ever done, and that includes all of the 4000 foot peaks in the Whites and Adirondacks. Two possible exceptions: I've not gone down the Huntington Ravine Trail on Washington, and never will--IMO it's only safe going uphill. I've also never been down the west side of Saddleback in the ADKs, and people tell me it's a real show with any load heavier than a daypack.
For the unitiated, the Flume Slide Trail consists of steep slabs covered with moss, slime, and dinnerplate-size flat rocks to make you skid out of control. Take the Liberty Spring Trail.
Coss
Not hard at alll, as long as you are carrying a PLB...
Flume slide trail is insane. I've done it once. That was enough.
That's why the White Mountain Guide states "It is not recommended for descent, and its use is discouraged in wet weather when the ledges are more than ordinarily dangerous."
Read the guidebook while planning your trip!
Read the guidebook while planning your trip!
Guidebook?!?!? What's that?!?!?! :D
Flume slide is a tough trail. If you're looking for a tough, but wonderful hike one of my favorites is the King Ravine trail on Mt. Adams.
Over all I would say the Whites, as well as most of northern New England, are more strenuous than other portions of the AT, but after logging so many miles you should be fine. As others have said, your pace will just slow down.
Flume slide is a tough trail. If you're looking for a tough, but wonderful hike one of my favorites is the King Ravine trail on Mt. Adams.
The (nobo) ascent to South Kinsman is kinda fun. Or the (nobo) descent off North Carter. Or Beaver Brook trail. Or.... :eek: The Whites are full of nutzoid hikes, but Flume Slide is near the top of my list.
HGive me Colorado trails anyday of the week brother because the Whites were tough, but very fun and a great challange.
No disagreement there! With the exception of a few older trails in the foothills, most of the trails are nicely switchbacked and blessedly free of rocks and roots.
Last year, just before doing the CDT and visiting the family, my brother and a buddy of mine did the Old Bridle Path /Fraconia Ridge/Fallings Waters loop.
I forgot how GD steep those trails can be! Egads!
http://www.pmags.com/joomla/index.php?option=com_gallery2&Itemid=36&g2_view=core.ShowItem&g2_itemId=13263
As for the Flume Side trail. I hiked up it once back in 1997.
It was poorly marked, I had to grab on trees, and it was straight up at times. When I thought I was off trail, I saw a faint blaze! Yep..that was the "trail".
It was an experience though and I saw a beautiful sunset over Franconia Ridge in camp.
http://www.pmags.com/joomla/index.php?option=com_gallery2&Itemid=36&g2_view=core.ShowItem&g2_itemId=7225
The tuckerman's ravine trail up mount washington was metioned earlier. This is the trail I used to ascend mount washington, but I did not dare descend on it, I took Lion's head down, it is a nice loop.
Kirby