View Full Version : Fire towers
earlyriser26
12-26-2007, 17:12
I've been hiking the AT for almost 40 years and remember there being fire towers on many of the larger mountains. I know many that I remember are now gone. Is there a list of remaining fire towers on the AT?
I've been hiking the AT for almost 40 years and remember there being fire towers on many of the larger mountains. I know many that I remember are now gone. Is there a list of remaining fire towers on the AT?
There are (2) firetowers on the AT in New Jersey: Catfish Mountain Firetower and The Culver Firetower.
If you have a general interest in firetowers you might find this interesting: http://www.adk-gfs.org/fire_tower_challenge.html
Two Speed
12-26-2007, 18:47
Towers still up at Shuckstack Mountain, Albert Mountain and Rich Mountain to the best of my knowledge The tower's still in place on Wesser Bald but the cabin's been removed, which is probably a good thing; less dead weight and wind loading on the remaining structure.
The views from Wesser and Albert Mountain towers are well worth the climb, and the towers appeared to be in good to fair condition. I went up the Shuckstack tower back in '93 or '94 and came to the conclusion I'd be a lot happier on the ground. Don't believe I'd risk it these days.
No list that I know of, but sure would like to see one.
earlyriser26
12-26-2007, 18:47
The reason I asked the question is that I was looking at a section of Maine that had a fire tower on it, but no longer. I spent a windy night in the Moxie Bald fire tower after finding the fire wardens cabin below a little too rodent infested. what a shame that all the old fire towers are going away.
earlyriser26
12-26-2007, 18:50
Towers still up at Shuckstack Mountain, Albert Mountain and Rich Mountain to the best of my knowledge The tower's still in place on Wesser Bald but the cabin's been removed, which is probably a good thing; less dead weight and wind loading on the remaining structure.
The views from Wesser and Albert Mountain towers are well worth the climb, and the towers appeared to be in good to fair condition. I went up the Shuckstack tower back in '93 or '94 and came to the conclusion I'd be a lot happier on the ground. Don't believe I'd risk it these days.
No list that I know of, but sure would like to see one.
I've been to Shuckstack and I agree it could use some TLC. I remember the rock scramble up to Albert as much as the view. And the night I camped on the Wesser tower was one of the best I've spent on the trail, a million stars....:)
There are several of places where you can see signs of removed fire towers. There's one on the approach trail, even, as I recall. And one just S. of Delaware Water Gap (there's a short "stairway to nowhere".) A shame, I suppose -- but I guess the notion of snuffing out forest fires routinely & automatically has fallen out of favor. (I'd be curious if it was justified with an economic rationale or a scientific rationale.)
Vermont has firetowers on Glastenbury & Stratton. NH on Smarts Mtn.
Jim Adams
12-26-2007, 19:12
There are several of places where you can see signs of removed fire towers. There's one on the approach trail, even, as I recall. And one just S. of Delaware Water Gap (there's a short "stairway to nowhere".) A shame, I suppose -- but I guess the notion of snuffing out forest fires routinely & automatically has fallen out of favor. (I'd be curious if it was justified with an economic rationale or a scientific rationale.)
Terrapin,
I don't think that it is economic or scientific....not much forest to burn when in alot of areas the forest is only 1/4 mile wide with the AT running through it!
Too much developement to have huge major fires in the East.:-?
geek
Two Speed
12-26-2007, 19:16
There are several of places where you can see signs of removed fire towers. There's one on the approach trail, even, as I recall. And one just S. of Delaware Water Gap (there's a short "stairway to nowhere".) A shame, I suppose -- but I guess the notion of snuffing out forest fires routinely & automatically has fallen out of favor. (I'd be curious if it was justified with an economic rationale or a scientific rationale.)The way I understand it's a combination of a couple of factors, one of which you mentioned. First, there's no need for them anymore, at least from the Forest Service's perspective. Next, bringing materials up to some of the sites would be a cast iron pain in the butt, to put it mildly, much less organizing the labor.
Then comes the fact that working on a tower is a specialized skill, to put it mildly. One "oopsie" on a tower can be fatal. BTW, that doesn't mean that someone has to fall off the tower to get someone killed. If the guy/gal up on the tower bobbles a large bolt and it hits someone on the ground . . . ouch.
Let's not forget that funding to buy materials is gonna be a problem too. Some of the structural steel isn't a standard shape anymore, so finding that stuff is a treat, much less paying for it.
The last thing I can think of is the liability. I leave that to your imagination.
Jim Adams
12-26-2007, 19:20
I may be wrong and please correct me if I am, (I would really like to know myself) but I thought that I once read that the biggest danger for firetower workers was lightening.
geek
I believe there's a scientific rationale... one that wasn't understood until relatively recently. The Yellowstone fires (1980s ?) kinda clinched it. To wit: the forest needs to burn from time to time. With normal accumulation of deadfall, a "normal" lightning-triggered burn doesn't kill the forest. But if deadfall is allowed to accumulate (due to overzealous fire prevention) then the next blaze is likely to be very destructive. Well anyway, that's how I remembered the latest "scientific" rationale.
Jim Adams
12-26-2007, 19:27
I believe there's a scientific rationale... one that wasn't understood until relatively recently. The Yellowstone fires (1980s ?) kinda clinched it. To wit: the forest needs to burn from time to time. With normal accumulation of deadfall, a "normal" lightning-triggered burn doesn't kill the forest. But if deadfall is allowed to accumulate (due to overzealous fire prevention) then the next blaze is likely to be very destructive. Well anyway, that's how I remembered the latest "scientific" rationale.
Yes, that is the rational. That is why Yellowstone burned soooo bad. They were afraid to let it burn naturally in small amounts every few years and the underbrush build up took off.
Terrapin, am I correct about the lightening striking towers? Just thought you might know.
geek
shelterbuilder
12-26-2007, 19:39
There are (2) firetowers on the AT in New Jersey: Catfish Mountain Firetower and The Culver Firetower.
Most of the ones in Pa. have been removed; the only one that I remember is NEAR the AT at Port Clinton, about 3 miles or so off of the trail, but it's fenced off and locked for reasons of liability. I was up there several years ago - I don't scare easily, but I'd hate to be up there in a windstorm!!
If I recall correctly, there used to be one on Bake Oven Knob, and one somewhere between Rausch Gap and Pa. 325 on the ridgetop, but only the concrete foundation blocks are left.
Terrapin, am I correct about the lightening striking towers? Just thought you might know.
Sorry -- I haven't investigated that part. Like others, I've been curious (and a bit disappointed) about the disappearing fire towers. But I never considered the fire towers as lightning targets by themselves.
If they're thoroughly grounded, and if the cabin is built as a true "Faraday cage," they ought to be safe. There's a fascinating display of farday cages at the Boston Museum of science... involving a multi-MeV electron accelerator and a guy in a steel cage... (there really is a guy in the cage in the photo below)
http://sprg.ssl.berkeley.edu/%7Eclee/images/traveling/boston/CISM_Summer_School/Science_Center/faraday_cage1.jpg
Two Speed
12-26-2007, 19:40
Hmmm, seem to have answered a question that wasn't asked. I hate it when I do that.
Hmmm, seem to have answered a question that wasn't asked. I hate it when I do that.
Just the usual thread drift... often leads to strange and interesting places, tho.
used to be a fire tower on top of Hightop in SNP - only the foundation is left but its still a nice place to camp right next to it
I don't know about the other states but Maine turned over it's fire watch duties to Aerial patrols performed by FBOs(fixed base operators usually) for economic reasons. FBOs may be land based or sea based(float planes). These contracted pilots are assigned a particular geographical area to "watch" . If you think about the area one plane can cover in an hour on any particular day, you'll realize the savings in $$ to the state. The state not only had the towers to maintain but housing/wages/insurance for the watchmen.
ChinMusic
12-26-2007, 20:58
I was just at the Rich Mountain Fire Tower last month. Nice views and only short ways off the AT.
Visiting with watchmen is something no longer part of the A.T. experience. It seems it was something both watchmen and hikers enjoyed from what I've read.
Click on Maine fire towers (http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/4192/fflo.htm) for information and pics. I expect many here will enjoy this link. Edit: The link I sought to link is reached by clicking on What's New and Maine. It's worth the effort!
I'm sure there are many good links that could be added to this thread. I don't have time to devote to it now. Perhaps my earlier link will inspire others to find and post a few.
Does anyone have current information on the condition of Stratton Mountain fire tower?
Pedaling Fool
12-26-2007, 21:50
used to be a fire tower on top of Hightop in SNP - only the foundation is left but its still a nice place to camp right next to it
I remember seeing a firetower on top of one mountain in NC/Tenn that was missing the top structure; I heard it caught fire, not sure if that's true, but sure would be ironic.
Does anyone have current information on the condition of Stratton Mountain fire tower?
I would guess it's fine. Stratton's one of the few (or only) that has a semi-permanent, live-in caretaker. Though he (err... she) lives in a hut at the base. She's mentioned in Jan's book, and I've met her (the tower caretaker) twice.
Here's a good site for firetower information: http://www.firelookout.org/index.htm
Situated on Mt. Penn overlooking the City of Reading, Pennsylvania, this tower (http://www.firelookout.net/Individ_Lookouts/US324_William_Penn_Memorial.htm) near the A.T. is listed on the National Historic Lookout Register (NHLR).
Fire tower enthusiasts travelling through Berks County on I78 or section-hikers with a car may wish to visit. It's less than 20 miles from Port Clinton or Cabela's.
Additional information can be found at http://www.pagodaskyline.org/tower.
Also listed on the National Historic Lookout Register is Stratton Mountain fire tower (http://www.firelookout.net/Individ_Lookouts/US048_Stratton_Mtn.htm). It's right on the L.T./A.T.
For information on Smarts Mountain fire tower, go here (http://www.firelookout.net/Individ_Lookouts/US157_Smarts_Mtn.htm).
kayak karl
12-27-2007, 06:45
I've been hiking the AT for almost 40 years and remember there being fire towers on many of the larger mountains. I know many that I remember are now gone. Is there a list of remaining fire towers on the AT?
Batona trail, apple pie hill
Stony Mountain in PA on State Game Lands No. 211 between Rausch Gap and PA 325, still has an open fire tower AFAIK.
Location shows up on the A.T. map one mile beeline compass south of the PA 325 A.T. crossing in Clarks Valley. A Google search on "Stony Mountain Lookout Tower" will bring up several map references mined from the government's GNIS.
The blue Water Tank Trail meets A.T. at the Clarks Creek crossing for the nearest approach, roughly three trail miles (2.4 on the blue blaze and about a half on ridgetop doubletrack).
As shelterbuilder notes, there is another fire tower foundation in SGL 211. According to a page from the link STEVEM posted http://www.firelookout.org/towers/pa/pa.htm the old Stony Mtn lookout was relocated in 1967.
88BlueGT
12-29-2007, 05:10
Catfish fire tower is the only tower that I have seen in Jersey. It has really nice views up there of a few good ridges.
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/%5BIMG%5Dhttp://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c53/88bluegt22/DSC01220.jpg%5B/IMG%5D
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/%5BIMG%5Dhttp://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c53/88bluegt22/DSC01228.jpg%5B/IMG%5D
88BlueGT
12-29-2007, 05:17
I have a few pictures from the top but for some reason I cant get them to post....
There are several of places where you can see signs of removed fire towers. There's one on the approach trail, even, as I recall. And one just S. of Delaware Water Gap (there's a short "stairway to nowhere".) A shame, I suppose -- but I guess the notion of snuffing out forest fires routinely & automatically has fallen out of favor. (I'd be curious if it was justified with an economic rationale or a scientific rationale.)
No need for towers when planes are flying everywhere. Costs a lot of money to pay someone to watch the leaves grow.
Sorry -- I haven't investigated that part. Like others, I've been curious (and a bit disappointed) about the disappearing fire towers. But I never considered the fire towers as lightning targets by themselves.
If they're thoroughly grounded, and if the cabin is built as a true "Faraday cage," they ought to be safe. There's a fascinating display of farday cages at the Boston Museum of science... involving a multi-MeV electron accelerator and a guy in a steel cage... (there really is a guy in the cage in the photo below)
http://sprg.ssl.berkeley.edu/%7Eclee/images/traveling/boston/CISM_Summer_School/Science_Center/faraday_cage1.jpg
I've been to this show, when they fire that thing up. The lights in the entire building dim, the hum of all the current is unbeliveable and the hair on your body stands right up its very impressive..
dessertrat
12-29-2007, 12:58
It seems as though, with satellite and aerial images so much more readily available today, that fire towers are not needed as much as they used to be needed.
Also, there has likely been a substantial change in the economics of it-- if I were a paper company, pre-air travel, I would definitely want fire towers up there to preserve my investment. (And it would be nice if I could lobby the State or Federal government to provide those towers and workers, rather than pay for them on my own).
As of mid-August 2006, there was still a fire tower on Old Speck in southern Maine, great views from the tower, it is a wooded summit otherwise.
Kirby