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kayak karl
12-27-2007, 06:56
What is this black fly thing u's talk about on the SOBO. are they like green heads in jersey?

Lone Wolf
12-27-2007, 09:11
no. black flies bite like a mofo

woodsy
12-27-2007, 09:12
We who live in Blackfly country don't usually think about such things in winter, out of sight, out of mind.
But seeing U asked:
From wiki
Regional effects of black fly populations


In the wetter parts of the northern latitudes of North America (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_America), including parts of Canada (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada), New England (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_England) and the Upper Peninsula of Michigan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upper_Peninsula_of_Michigan), black fly populations swell from Mid-May to July, becoming a nuisance to humans engaging in common outdoor activitites such as boating (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boating), camping (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camping) and backpacking (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backpacking_%28wilderness%29).
In Canada, black flies are a scourge to livestock, causing weight loss in cattle and in some cases, death. [1] (http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.com/index.cfm?PgNm=TCE&Params=A1ARTA0000798)
The Commonwealth of Pennsylvania (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commonwealth_of_Pennsylvania), in the United States (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States), operates the largest single black fly control program in North America. The program is seen as beneficial to both the quality of life for residents and to the state's tourism industry.[2] (http://www.depweb.state.pa.us/blackfly)
Ecology

Eggs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egg_%28biology%29) are laid in running water, and the larvae (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larva) attach themselves to rocks. They use tiny hooks at the end of their abdomen to hold on to the substrate, often using silk holdfasts and lines to move or hold their place. They have foldable fans surrounding their mouths. When feeding, the fans expand, catching passing debris (small organic particles, algae and bacteria). Every few seconds, the larva scraps the fan's catch into its mouth. Black flies depend on lotic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotic) habitats to bring food to them. They will pupate under water and then emerge in a bubble of air as flying adults. During this emergence, they are often preyed upon by trout.
Black flies are univoltine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Univoltine), which means that they spend the winter in the larval stage, often under the ice, where they slowly mature.
The Canadian Shield (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Shield) is characterized by an abundance of lakes and swift-flowing streams and hence offers optimum conditions for black flies to lay their eggs. The Canadian Shield is notorious for the abundance of black flies in the summertime.

4eyedbuzzard
12-27-2007, 09:16
No. They are little blood eating bastards about the size of the letter "t" here. They swarm in the spring. Some people aren't as allergic to their bites as others. But the reaction can be severe. Lots of swelling, ulceration, festering, etc for some people.

http://www.mainenature.org/blackfly/blackflyinfo.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_fly

CoyoteWhips
12-27-2007, 09:26
Regional effects of black fly populations
In the wetter parts of the northern latitudes of North America (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_America), including parts of Canada (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada), New England (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_England) and the Upper Peninsula of Michigan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upper_Peninsula_of_Michigan), black fly populations swell from Mid-May to July, becoming a nuisance to humans engaging in common outdoor activitites such as boating (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boating), camping (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camping) and backpacking (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backpacking_%28wilderness%29).

So the first weeks in September would be more comfortable for The Long Trail? April?

woodsy
12-27-2007, 09:49
So the first weeks in September would be more comfortable for The Long Trail? April?
Sept is a great time to hike in the NE, April is a bit early..... unless you don't mind various late winter conditions....

CoyoteWhips
12-27-2007, 10:17
Sept is a great time to hike in the NE, April is a bit early..... unless you don't mind various late winter conditions....

Yeah, it's a trade-off: Freezing rain vs. flying swarms of carnivorous insects. I got TLT on my calendar for September. But I'm not going on a three-week trek without getting several several more weekends under my shoes first. My backpack sits by the door from April Fools to Halloween.

Bob S
12-27-2007, 11:50
I do a lot of camping in Michigan’s UP, the black flies can drive you crazy up there. Permethrin on all clothes and Sawyer’s “Broad Spectrum” work very well. The Broad Spectrum has DEET and 2 other things that are made to repel flies (MGK-264 and MGK326.)

Broad Spectrum & Permethrin has allowed me to enjoy the outdoors in places that use to drive me nuts before. You can enjoy the outdoors when others will run for their tents. In the 3-years since using these 2- sprays I have not had one person come up and ask why the bugs don’t bother me. I know I would ask if I were in their position.


Now if I could just keep them away from my food when eating….



PS this is an unpaid endorsement, But if you make this stuff and read this, I’m willing to take except some money for saying your stuff works great. Just e-mail me and I will let you know where to send the $$$

dessertrat
12-27-2007, 11:58
The black flies should be pretty much done by August. Still some mosquitoes, though.

DCHiker
12-27-2007, 12:36
I was camping near Kinsman Pond one time and the black flies got so bad in the evening we had to retreat into the tent and wait for it to cool down. Once the temp gets low enough at night they just disappear

4eyedbuzzard
12-27-2007, 13:53
Temps under 50F or any decent breeze will keep them away.

Toolshed
12-27-2007, 14:00
At the time, You WON'T know they are biting and you WON"T feel them biting, you will see a drop of blood here and there on ocassion. they like to get into your sleeve band or sock band, where it is a little tight.

Later, You WILL know they bit you and you WILL feel where they bit you as you will itch like crazy. Apparently they have a screw style probiscus and they inject you with a tiny bit of chemical that allows your blood to run freely. It is theis chemical that casues you to itch like crazy later.

Just a Hiker
12-27-2007, 14:03
Black flies are only bad if you let them or if you aren't prepared. If you are starting a late May or early June SOBO on the AT just carry 100 percent DEET, a tent and head net and you'll be okay. Like others have already said, if it's breezy and the whether is cooler, they won't be a problem at all.


Just Jim

Grumpy Ol' Pops
12-27-2007, 14:03
What is this black fly thing u's talk about on the SOBO. are they like green heads in jersey?
Karl,
If you've ever been anywhere along the New Jersey shore in the summertime when the breeze is from onshore and across a salt marsh before getting to you, then you know what the black flies in Maine are like.
Just talk to any surfcaster worth his time in the sand.

A-Train
12-27-2007, 14:18
Yeah, it's a trade-off: Freezing rain vs. flying swarms of carnivorous insects. I got TLT on my calendar for September. But I'm not going on a three-week trek without getting several several more weekends under my shoes first. My backpack sits by the door from April Fools to Halloween.

Definately hit the LT in September. Did the northern part from Sept 1-12 in 06' and it was delightful-no bugs, warm days, cool nights, few people, prety good all around..

Kirby
12-27-2007, 15:11
Black fly season in Maine can be tough if you have never experienced it, you start to get used o it after a while. They will be everywhere if you go through the Wilderness in June on a SOBO.

Kirby

CoyoteWhips
12-27-2007, 15:44
Definately hit the LT in September. Did the northern part from Sept 1-12 in 06' and it was delightful-no bugs, warm days, cool nights, few people, prety good all around..

I'm looking forward to it. My business is dead in September, anyway. My tentative plans are to get public transportation up to the Canadian border and SOBO back to Massachusetts.

I've yet to even buy the guide, so at this point it's all pretty vague.

mudhead
12-27-2007, 18:51
Which is worse?

A black fly on the inside of your glasses, or in your sweaty ear?


Kayak Karl is itching to know.

4eyedbuzzard
12-27-2007, 19:03
I absolutely hate 'em in my beard.

woodsy
12-27-2007, 19:58
If you wear only a button down shirt, put a piece of duct tape over your naval.....a prime black fly dinner zone! Believe it or not.
Other skin folds , behind the ears and neck area too, any place exposed and untreated will do if prime areas are not available. BTW, you will feel them crawling on you but may not feel them bite.

OregonHiker
12-27-2007, 20:23
Sept is a great time to hike in the NE, April is a bit early..... unless you don't mind various late winter conditions....

I remember it snowing on April 7 in MA and black flies out the next day.:(

Tinker
12-27-2007, 20:28
I was camping near Kinsman Pond one time and the black flies got so bad in the evening we had to retreat into the tent and wait for it to cool down. Once the temp gets low enough at night they just disappear
I had the same thing happen to me on Mt. Adams in the Whites. I was staying at "The Perch" in the spring, and the buggers drove me into my tent at about 3:00. I got a sunburn through the screening after falling asleep. Got up to cook dinner just before dark. Problem was that with that nap, I woke up in the middle of the night with nothing to do!:o
Get a bug shirt if you're hiking in New England in the spring.
Early August is when you can expect a noticeable drop in the blackfly population. Of course, the mosquitoes take over then.....:D

kayak karl
12-27-2007, 20:48
Get a bug shirt if you're hiking in New England in the spring.
Early August is when you can expect a noticeable drop in the blackfly population. Of course, the mosquitoes take over then.....:D
whats a bug shirt? and are jiggers (red bugs) a problem on the trail?

Bob S
12-27-2007, 20:58
Just spray your clothes with Permethrin, you will have 3-weeks of no bugs biting you through your clothes. Add DEET for exposed skin and the outdoors are enjoyable again any time of the year.

DEET confuses bugs so they can’t find you and Permethrin will sting and kill them if they land on you.

Works for me…

Tinker
12-27-2007, 21:21
whats a bug shirt? and are jiggers (red bugs) a problem on the trail?

A bug shirt is a shirt made of no-see-um mesh. Other than the fact that they can be very rough against bare skin, and that bugs can bite through the mesh where it is compressed by pack straps, it keeps most mosquitoes and blackflies confused enough to keep the number of bites down.

Stated above, you can use Permethrin on your clothes to keep bugs away, and once dry they say it isn't harmful, but the warnings on proper application are kinda scary. I use Permethrin on all my clothes including my bug shirt (and bug pants) which has eliminated about 90% of bites I used to get.

Tinker
12-27-2007, 21:23
Here's the "Original Bug Shirt".
http://www.bugshirt.com/

I use one made by Outdoor research, which has more mesh but no hood.

woodsy
12-27-2007, 22:11
Here's a cute story that sums up our beloved bugs and their stealthy behavoir.
http://www.maykuth.com/Archives/flies93.htm

DCHiker
12-28-2007, 11:04
I've always had a problem with them getting under the brim of my hat. You go to wipe your forhead and your hand gets smeared with blood. Fun stuff!

RITBlake
12-28-2007, 11:17
When we were planning our 2005 SOBO thru hike, we did all the reading and research and continually saw warnings about the black flies in Maine. Despite the warnings, we carried a very flippant attitude because at the end of the day, they are just bugs, how bad could they be.

Well, come June 3rd and we are ready to go. My dad drives us up and we get to Baxter very early in the morning. I'll never forget sitting in the car, waiting for the gate to open, and being able to see swarms of black flies around the car. It was unlike anything bug related I'd ever seen.

They followed us for the next couple weeks as we rambled through Maine and yes they are bad. They are ever present, not only annoying when you are walking, but when you are trying to eat, sleep, or just relax around the fire. I want to rewalk Maine in the fall just to enjoy some of the locations we had trudged through just to get out of bug country.

A SOBO thru is tougher w/ good reason, your first few weeks are fairly isolated, muddy, humid, and buggy. But it's all worth it!

My advice would be to def. carry a headnet and plenty of deet
- headnet is worth it's weight in gold even if used just for sleeping
- we ran out of deet on day 4 of the 100 MW. Bring extra or suffer.

4eyedbuzzard
12-28-2007, 12:21
Despite the warnings, we carried a very flippant attitude because at the end of the day, they are just bugs, how bad could they be.

The Egyptians ignored the warnings too. (Gnats and flies and locusts and disease and boils were five of the ten biblical plagues.)

Perhaps we're being punished.:eek: :rolleyes:

mudhead
12-28-2007, 12:24
We just got 5" of snow, everything is white. Black flies are my favorite subject right about now.

Best fishing is when the bugs are the meanest.

Kirby
12-28-2007, 13:55
We just got 5" of snow, everything is white. Black flies are my favorite subject right about now.

Best fishing is when the bugs are the meanest.

Down in the south, we received 2-3 inches. It is melting now.

Kirby

SunnyWalker
12-28-2007, 17:16
Woodsy: Thanks for the article. I read it and it was informative. OK, are there blackflies in Oregon? It's pretty wet there and the conditions would seem to match Maines, at least in the spring in the Mtns. Thanks everyone.-SunnyWalker

V8
12-28-2007, 17:32
...and are jiggers (red bugs) a problem on the trail?

What's jigger? Red bug?

ozt42
12-28-2007, 17:34
The little bastaa'ds were pretty tame this year by the time July rolled around as were the mosquitos. Of course, it is a matter of perspective I never put on my headnet and skipped the DEET several days in the 100 miles but I met several people 'from away' all netted up and lamenting the biblical plauge of insects...

Kirby
12-28-2007, 17:41
The little bastaa'ds were pretty tame this year by the time July rolled around as were the mosquitos. Of course, it is a matter of perspective I never put on my headnet and skipped the DEET several days in the 100 miles but I met several people 'from away' all netted up and lamenting the biblical plauge of insects...

I suppose it's a Mainer thing. I rarely use bug spray while hiking, and have never carried a bug net. I have learned to bring something to cover all parts of the body at night if I do an overnight during black fly season.

Kirby

Mr. Clean
12-28-2007, 18:07
What's jigger? Red bug?

I think he meant chiggers, those little red buggers that dig into your skin and itch. I've never been bothered here in Maine, but used to get them in Virginia.
I never hike in the spring or summer without plenty of Deet, the only thing I've found that will keep black flies at bay. The 20% seems to be adequate for me, and I squirt it on my hat, pack, and clothes, but try to keep it off my skin. You only forget to bring Deet once.

mudhead
12-28-2007, 20:02
You only forget to bring Deet once.

Those wipes make for handy backups. I am always worried about my only source of DEET breaking/burning/getting chewed/whatever.

Wasn't bad last year, must mean we are in for a bumper crop this year.

kayak karl
12-28-2007, 22:14
What's jigger? Red bug?
http://www.bugsaway.com/redbug.htm

woodsy
12-28-2007, 22:18
The little bastaa'ds were pretty tame this year by the time July rolled around as were the mosquitos.




Wasn't bad last year, must mean we are in for a bumper crop this year.

I agree, According to a fisheries biologist i spoke with the black flies were late and fewer. He reasoned that the late heavy snowfall we had made for a late snowpack melt which kept the water temps too cold for a normal hatch.
Hoping for the same this year!:)

earthbound
12-28-2007, 22:41
are these similar to the fly-like insects in minnesota that leave softball sized swollen bites? I had an EVIL portage once where I ran with a duluth pack to escape them.

Kirby
12-28-2007, 23:26
I agree, According to a fisheries biologist i spoke with the black flies were late and fewer. He reasoned that the late heavy snowfall we had made for a late snowpack melt which kept the water temps too cold for a normal hatch.
Hoping for the same this year!:)

You must be referring to the early April storm that slammed Maine just as all the snow was melting. That was some welcome to spring, at least here in the south.

Kirby

Kirby
12-28-2007, 23:28
are these similar to the fly-like insects in minnesota that leave softball sized swollen bites? I had an EVIL portage once where I ran with a duluth pack to escape them.

Wait:
Are you saying you ran with a full pack and a canoe to avoid the black flies?

I know portaging as carrying a canoe on your back, we might be operating under different uses of the word.

Kirby

4eyedbuzzard
12-28-2007, 23:38
are these similar to the fly-like insects in minnesota that leave softball sized swollen bites? I had an EVIL portage once where I ran with a duluth pack to escape them.

Probably. There are lots of closely related species of "black flies", not exactly the same genetically, but they're all EVIL. They're not very big - about the size of the letter "T" here. Some people are more allergic than others, and the bites get really swollen and ulcerated.

River Runner
12-29-2007, 00:06
I think he meant chiggers, those little red buggers that dig into your skin and itch. I've never been bothered here in Maine, but used to get them in Virginia.
I never hike in the spring or summer without plenty of Deet, the only thing I've found that will keep black flies at bay. The 20% seems to be adequate for me, and I squirt it on my hat, pack, and clothes, but try to keep it off my skin. You only forget to bring Deet once.

:eek:

Actually Deet is supposed to go on your skin and you are supposed to avoid getting it on clothing and gear. Deet can badly stain cloth and will melt the paint off the plastic bottles it's stored in, among other things.

Permethrin is what is supposed to be applied to clothing (and avoided on skin).

mudhead
12-29-2007, 08:19
I use DEET on the clothes. Keeps them from swirling so much, and prevents crawlup. I figure my duds can be replaced, what is left of my sanity is more valuable. I try to pick older stuff to wear, it will make fleece wierd if you get alot on it. Little dab will do.

I always take my glasses off, and usually put them upwind.

Always.

woodsy
12-29-2007, 10:05
Check out the picture of this hiker dude (http://mudhead.uottawa.ca/%7Epete/blackf.html) after being poisioned by blackfly bites! Some of you anti- bug dope SOBOs may want to bring a seeing eye dog along to help you find your way, just kidding, or am i?

earthbound
12-29-2007, 13:36
kirby- I ran with the duluth pack, someone else had the canoe. Never tried running with a canoe...but I can't imagine it would be very easy.

Kirby
12-29-2007, 13:47
kirby- I ran with the duluth pack, someone else had the canoe. Never tried running with a canoe...but I can't imagine it would be very easy.

it's not.

Kirby

emerald
12-29-2007, 14:25
Check out the picture of this hiker dude (http://mudhead.uottawa.ca/%7Epete/blackf.html) after being poisioned by blackfly bites! Some of you anti- bug dope SOBOs may want to bring a seeing eye dog along to help you find your way, just kidding, or am i?

One of their most endearing qualities is their propensity for licking the wounds they create.;)

mudhead
12-29-2007, 16:26
Check out the picture of this hiker dude (http://mudhead.uottawa.ca/%7Epete/blackf.html) after being poisioned by blackfly bites! Some of you anti- bug dope SOBOs may want to bring a seeing eye dog along to help you find your way, just kidding, or am i?

Now that is nasty. I wonder if he sprayed his face without holding his hand over his eyes. Or rubbed his eyes with DEET on his hands. I have seen people use waaay too much at one shot. Often in July.


I would think that any mudhead would know better.

slow
12-29-2007, 20:12
What is the big deal?They are a bug that's bites...so what.You have WHAT 2 MONTHS OF IT?

4eyedbuzzard
12-29-2007, 20:24
What is the big deal?They are a bug that's bites...so what.You have WHAT 2 MONTHS OF IT?

Hmmm, what's your location again? FL
Yeah, those lovebugs are vicious...:rolleyes:

slow
12-29-2007, 22:15
Hmmm, what's your location again? FL
Yeah, those lovebugs are vicious...:rolleyes:

FUNNY MAN.:)
We got mosquitoes in the swamps that will pick U up 7 months a year.:D

But the red ants can be hell at times as well.

4eyedbuzzard
12-29-2007, 22:48
FUNNY MAN.:)
We got mosquitoes in the swamps that will pick U up 7 months a year.:D

But the red ants can be hell at times as well.

:D Just havin' a little fun.

What really gets me about FL bugs though is the whole "Palmetto bug" scam. When tourists ask they are told, "Oh that? That's just a Palmetto bug." Bull****. It's a big ol' nasty FLYING ROACH.

I hate those things.:eek:

slow
12-30-2007, 00:08
:D Just havin' a little fun.

What really gets me about FL bugs though is the whole "Palmetto bug" scam. When tourists ask they are told, "Oh that? That's just a Palmetto bug." Bull****. It's a big ol' nasty FLYING ROACH.

I hate those things.:eek:

It's funny but true.:D

woodsy
12-30-2007, 12:41
Might as well throw these guys (http://www.idph.state.il.us/envhealth/pcbitingflies.htm) into the mix while we are talking about biting insects in the northeast.
Although the Black Fly is our most noted pest for a few months, the Deer fly in summer(they like it warm) is really annoying as they buzz in circles around your head usually, and will follow U for miles sometimes, unless you've got a real fast hand to smack them with .
A slap doesn't usually kill them but if U can stun them enough, roll them between thumb and fingers for the final kill. These guys are tough buggers.
Again, Deet, I use a 30% solution made by by BENS(in the small orange bottle), keeps them at bay.

4eyedbuzzard
12-30-2007, 13:11
At least you have a fighting chance against them as they tend to be solo attackers or at worst a pair or so. Granted you can get turned around a bit swatting at the SOB's, but at least you can knock a few of them into fly afterlife. They are persistent though. On the golf course a good stinky cigar seems to work well against both them and the smaller black flies, but a good cuban ain't the best lung fuel for climbing over hill and dale.

I sometimes take a half a dryer fabric softener sheet and put it under my hat to keep away the black flies in the spring. They don't seem to like the smell. Not sure if it repels the big flies too?

mudhead
12-30-2007, 20:27
I like the crunch deer flies make when you roll them. Yes, you do have to pinch them.

Always amuses me when people from away underestimate black flies.

Even if it is less than two months.

Kind of like the time I went roaring into Collier State Park in FL. The entrance sign recommended bug spray. No need. I'm rough and tough and from Maine.

Whoops.

CoyoteWhips
12-30-2007, 20:36
The problem with biting bugs is that they make it hard easy to hurt yourself. You don't take regular breaks, not watching for blisters, losing concentration on the trail. Around here, deet works inefficiently. Sitting in one place draws a cloud 'skeeters looking for any opening.

Bob S
12-31-2007, 15:59
Around here, deet works inefficiently. Sitting in one place draws a cloud 'skeeters looking for any opening.


Just don’t exhale any carbon dioxide. That will keep them pesky buggers away….

mudhead
12-31-2007, 20:10
Just don’t exhale any carbon dioxide. That will keep them pesky buggers away….

The tourists look at me funny if I tell them that.

woodsy
12-31-2007, 20:46
Last spring when this topic came up someone here suggested exhaling through a snorkel type device with the tube exhaust/carbon dioxide exiting some 2 or 3 feet behind you, that way you're always a few steps ahead of them.

SunnyWalker
01-01-2008, 00:04
This is all very informative, but can anyone tell me are these flies in Oregon Mtns? Its pretty rainy/snowy there and I'm thinking similar situation. Thanks.
-SunnyWalker