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max patch
12-28-2007, 15:51
The old Stover Creek Shelter has been demolished. The only thing left standing is the old picnic table.

I met a GATC member last winter in the area who told me that they were thinking of relocating the shelter to Amicalola State Park as an exhibit of what the old shelters used to look like. Obviously, that didn't happen. This shelter has been in 2 different locations over the years, its a shame that it wasn't moved a 3rd time instead of being destroyed.

As the shelter is maybe a half mile tops from the new shelter, it could have been used as an overflow shelter for thru's rather than being destroyed.

Lone Wolf
12-28-2007, 15:56
destroy 'em all

Hooch
12-28-2007, 15:56
The old Stover Creek Shelter has been demolished. The only thing left standing is the old picnic table.

I met a GATC member last winter in the area who told me that they were thinking of relocating the shelter to Amicalola State Park as an exhibit of what the old shelters used to look like. Obviously, that didn't happen. This shelter has been in 2 different locations over the years, its a shame that it wasn't moved a 3rd time instead of being destroyed.

As the shelter is maybe a half mile tops from the new shelter, it could have been used as an overflow shelter for thru's rather than being destroyed. If one had a talent toward woodworking, it'd be kinda neat to try to get some of the wood from the old shelter and try to make something from it. A sort of memorial of some type if you will. :D

Smile
12-28-2007, 15:57
Where is the new shelter being built?

I guess folks will continue to camp at the old shelter location, which might make more of an impact to the area.


destroy 'em all :)

max patch
12-28-2007, 16:06
Where is the new shelter being built?

I guess folks will continue to camp at the old shelter location, which might make more of an impact to the area.

:)

The shelter was built last spring and the trail was relocated. Nightwalker drew a map which looks real accurate to me:

http://www.whit
eblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=17398

max patch
12-28-2007, 16:08
Fixed link:

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=17398

Smile
12-28-2007, 16:15
So is the trail rerouted this year as well as the map indicates? I was wondering how far it was from Springer compared to the old shelter. :)

Pedaling Fool
12-28-2007, 16:25
The old Stover Creek Shelter has been demolished. The only thing left standing is the old picnic table...
A few questions:
1. From your link it looks like the shelter is about 1/4 mile off the AT, but with a loop-trail, true?
2. If they left the picnic table, does this mean the old shelter site is now a campsite?
3. How's the water situation at the new shelter?

Survivor Dave
12-28-2007, 16:25
It's still 2.5 miles from Springer give or take a feww hundred feet or so.

Instead of making a left, you veer right up the hill about 20 yards and there's the new one. A great shelter. Maybe some firewood might be had of the old shelter. Thats what they did with the Hawk Mountain Shelter roof. Stacked it between two trees.

SD



So is the trail rerouted this year as well as the map indicates? I was wondering how far it was from Springer compared to the old shelter. :)

max patch
12-28-2007, 16:33
A few questions:
1. From your link it looks like the shelter is about 1/4 mile off the AT, but with a loop-trail, true?
2. If they left the picnic table, does this mean the old shelter site is now a campsite?
3. How's the water situation at the new shelter?

1. One blue blaze trail to the shelter, not a loop.

2. The old AT is closed. Not going to be a campsite as the purpose (I think) was to let the area "recover." The remains of the old shelter are still there. I imagine they will take away the picnic table when the shelter remains are removed.

3. Still no water at the new shelter. Not a problem, though, as you cross a stream on the AT both NOBO and SOBO just before you get to the blue blazed trail to the shelter.

max patch
12-28-2007, 16:34
I was wondering how far it was from Springer compared to the old shelter. :)

Its a bit longer, but not enough to notice. Maybe a tenth of mile or so.

max patch
12-28-2007, 16:37
Maybe some firewood might be had of the old shelter. Thats what they did with the Hawk Mountain Shelter roof. Stacked it between two trees.

SD

With the current fire ban I don't think they'll do that.

Smile
12-28-2007, 17:59
Any photos of the new shelter, or is it being built? I'm looking for a project to help with in that area before spring. :)

Pedaling Fool
12-28-2007, 18:12
Any photos of the new shelter, or is it being built? I'm looking for a project to help with in that area before spring. :)
Nitewalker has some pics in his gallery
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/browseimages.php?do=member&imageuser=1641

A-Train
12-28-2007, 18:28
Totally unecessary shelter. The 7 miles to Hawk are easy. Lots of camping in between

Pedaling Fool
12-28-2007, 18:59
Totally unecessary shelter. The 7 miles to Hawk are easy. Lots of camping in between
That's a good point. Too late the money's alread spent.

minnesotasmith
12-28-2007, 18:59
destroy 'em all

Only with some anti-shelter bigots tied up inside first. Like burning the American flag should arguably only be legal if wrapped around the flag-burning nut. ;)

max patch
12-28-2007, 19:10
Totally unecessary shelter. The 7 miles to Hawk are easy. Lots of camping in between

Springer to Hawk is easy, agreed. But don't look at only through the eyes of a thru hiker. When my kids were younger we did plenty of hikes US42 to Springer and back, US42 to Stover and back, Hickory Flatts to Long Creek Falls and back, etc.

rafe
12-28-2007, 19:10
Only with some anti-shelter bigots tied up inside first. Like burning the American flag should arguably only be legal if wrapped around the flag-burning nut. ;)

I'm amazed at how you can be utterly brilliant in one sentence and utterly stupid in the next. And this is not the first time. You have talent, kid.

Marta
12-28-2007, 19:12
Totally unecessary shelter. The 7 miles to Hawk are easy. Lots of camping in between

I think it's more a matter of trying to distribute people over a larger area, especially during the spring rush. Sort of like that area in Vermont where there are shelters about every three miles...

rafe
12-28-2007, 19:21
Totally unecessary shelter. The 7 miles to Hawk are easy. Lots of camping in between

What's your assumed starting point? For those that start at Amicalola, Stover's a respectable first day's hike, and Hawk shelter would be too far.

Lone Wolf
12-28-2007, 21:39
Totally unecessary shelter. The 7 miles to Hawk are easy. Lots of camping in between

you are correct. lot of time and money spent for nothing. bragging rights and volunteer hours maybe

Lone Wolf
12-28-2007, 21:40
Only with some anti-shelter bigots tied up inside first. Like burning the American flag should arguably only be legal if wrapped around the flag-burning nut. ;)

you're a mere AT pup.

Smile
12-28-2007, 22:08
JOHN GAULT: Nitewalker has some pics in his gallery
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/...imageuser=1641

Thanks John :)

Tinker
12-29-2007, 02:27
destroy 'em all

How 'bout "Destroy a Mall?":D

briarpatch
12-29-2007, 16:08
[quote=Marta;484416]I think it's more a matter of trying to distribute people over a larger area, especially during the spring rush. Sort of like that area in Vermont where there are shelters about every three miles...[/quote

Stover is an overflow shelter for Springer. Hawk is just a bit too far away for someone who has hiked the approach trail, only to find the shelter and meadow at Springer already full.

A-Train
12-29-2007, 16:33
What's your assumed starting point? For those that start at Amicalola, Stover's a respectable first day's hike, and Hawk shelter would be too far.

Assuming a start at Springer. If you start at Amicalola you either go to Springer Shelter or move on and camp. The frequent shelters at the beginning of the trek create bad habits and dependency on shelters. There is camping everywhere.

My outlook completely changed after hiking the PCT. No shelters, no security blankets. I actually had to sleep outside every night

rafe
12-29-2007, 16:39
Assuming a start at Springer. If you start at Amicalola you either go to Springer Shelter or move on and camp. The frequent shelters at the beginning of the trek create bad habits and dependency on shelters. There is camping everywhere.

I started at Amicalola, and stayed at Stover my first night. I tented the following two nights. I'm no anti-shelter zealot. I generally enjoy the company of others at camp. Not sure what you're refering to as "bad habits." Whatever happened to "HYOH"?

StarLyte
12-29-2007, 16:48
Good camping and water source at Three Forks.

(I just remembered that hill going up to Hawk Mountain shelter- that was steep as heck.)

max patch
12-29-2007, 17:49
I don't have a "problem" with the new Stover Creek shelter. Where I think the GATC missed the boat was the demolition of the old Stover Creek shelter. I think it should remained standing as a "secret shelter" OR moved to ASP as a "museum" as I understand was being considered as an option.

In any event, the new shelter is a nice one that I've hiked too a couple of times and I'll return again. Here is a brief link to the GATC page discussing the building of the shelter.

http://www.georgia-atclub.org/trailmaintenance.html

Pedaling Fool
12-29-2007, 19:42
Are there a good number of campsites at the new Stover Creek Shelter?

briarpatch
12-30-2007, 00:57
Are there a good number of campsites at the new Stover Creek Shelter?

There are a number of tent pads available near/at the new shelter.

briarpatch
12-30-2007, 01:05
I don't have a "problem" with the new Stover Creek shelter. Where I think the GATC missed the boat was the demolition of the old Stover Creek shelter. I think it should remained standing as a "secret shelter" OR moved to ASP as a "museum" as I understand was being considered as an option.


It was offered as a museum piece, but no one was willing to have it moved. I would have liked to have seen it as a display somewhere, too, but it was just to heavy and in need of repair to move it easily. Leaving it in place would have required a good bit of maintainence to keep it usable/safe, so it came down.

A-Train
12-30-2007, 15:44
I started at Amicalola, and stayed at Stover my first night. I tented the following two nights. I'm no anti-shelter zealot. I generally enjoy the company of others at camp. Not sure what you're refering to as "bad habits." Whatever happened to "HYOH"?

I never said don't HYOH. I loved shelters and the comraderie with others. I'm saying this as a former shelter rat. I just think continuing to build these mega shelters isn't solving any problems of overcrowding and impact. Rather than try and keep the impact isolated in a few areas I feel spreading everyone out would be better for the wellbeing of the land. The shelters breed bad habits like folks thinking it's ok to leave trash in fire pits and bringing large groups of folks out to party on weekends.

As far as thru-hikers go, I do think the shelters breed bad habits. Many rely on them and would be a lot more independent without them. It creates bad habits for folks who don't have a proper shelter setup and creates reliance on man-made structures.

I'm just speaking from my own experiences. I became comfortable living in the wilderness on the PCT when I had to find my own camping spots, not follow a simple grid. The AT would be a lot emptier of a place without all the shelters.

WalkingStick75
12-30-2007, 16:54
Good and bad go with any topic. At times I avoid shelters opting for my tent or tarp but because of the shelters I have met so many interesting people that I probably would not have if there weren’t any shelters. Then you have the times I had my son with me and that dry place and eating dinner with some degree of comfort made it a good trip instead of a miserable trip. The makeup of the trail is the people, if not for the shelters the social network of hikers just would not be what it is.

rafe
12-30-2007, 17:06
The AT would be a lot emptier of a place without all the shelters.

That may well be true. But what good is an empty trail? It was made to be used! And in particular (well, IMO), it was meant to be used by folks that we hard-core hikers might think of as the "wrong kind" of people.

You've hiked multiple long trails, and that's great. But the vast majority of folks who set foot on the AT are there for very short stays.

SGT Rock
12-30-2007, 17:11
Shelters are accessories. Saying people won't hike without shelters is like saying people won't buy cars unless they have electric windows. Cars didn't have electric windows for years and people still bought them, and there are a lot of trails without shelters too that people still seem to hike. People just seem to like their electric windows and get ornery when others diss them. Who would of thought people could get so emotional about people dissing their accessories?

bigboots
12-30-2007, 17:35
I have no complaints about my new 2007 fuel efficent car that has neither power windows OR power locks. And yes I am a cheap bastard who would rather spend my money on hiking.

Bigboots

rafe
12-30-2007, 17:36
As far as thru-hikers go, I do think the shelters breed bad habits. Many rely on them and would be a lot more independent without them. It creates bad habits for folks who don't have a proper shelter setup and creates reliance on man-made structures.

Well, this is the part I take issue with. The "bad habits" part. I'm not an authority on thru-hiker behavior, but ISTM that thru-hikers favor shelters not so much for the structure itself but for the camaraderie. They know that's where their friends will be, or at least where other hikers will be. Chances are most of them will end up at tent sites near the shelter, rather than the shelter itself.

Plus, I don't think any thru-hiker will make it very far without "proper shelter setup." Lacking that is a bad habit in and of itself.

Maybe we could agree that the AT might benefit from a few more semi-developed tent sites?

SGT Rock
12-30-2007, 18:06
Well, this is the part I take issue with. The "bad habits" part. I'm not an authority on thru-hiker behavior, but ISTM that thru-hikers favor shelters not so much for the structure itself but for the camaraderie. They know that's where their friends will be, or at least where other hikers will be. Chances are most of them will end up at tent sites near the shelter, rather than the shelter itself.

Plus, I don't think any thru-hiker will make it very far without "proper shelter setup." Lacking that is a bad habit in and of itself.

Maybe we could agree that the AT might benefit from a few more semi-developed tent sites?
Sort of. I think some shelters should be phased out and replaced with those tent sites. Shelters like Icewater for instance would be a great one to replace.

Footslogger
12-30-2007, 23:19
The old Stover Creek Shelter was falling apart anyway so I really don't know what all the fuss is about. Best thing about the shelter was the "spot".

Used to drive into the 3 Forks area and hike into Stove Creek all the time. Spent many a night under a tarp next to the creek. Great area. Not familiar with the area surrounding the new shelter. Personally, if I needed a campsite in that area I would probably hike into the old Stove Creek area and pitch my tarp.

'Slogger

SGT Rock
12-30-2007, 23:23
Fixed link:

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=17398
Looks like that new relocation is about where the BMT goes through the area. Hmmm...

jlb2012
12-31-2007, 09:04
Looks like that new relocation is about where the BMT goes through the area. Hmmm...

looking at the AT map for the area (Chattahoochee National Forest, Springer Mountain to Bly Gap, Georgia) and matching up the contour lines it looks to me that the new shelter is still a fair ways away from the BMT - not that it means much in that area with the BMT weaving in and out of the AT - note the map on the whiteblaze photo link is a considerably smaller scale than the AT map

CoyoteWhips
12-31-2007, 09:35
On my Google Earth files, looks like it's been moved farther from the BMT, but I might be using an old BMT track.

On the attached graphic, the BMT is in red, AT in green. The overlayed map is from WhiteBlaze.

Nearly Normal
12-31-2007, 10:07
I'd like to see cooking shelters with bear cables and privey. It's great to cook out of the rain with tent sites close by.
I don't care to sleep in shelters.

SGT Rock
12-31-2007, 11:04
looking at the AT map for the area (Chattahoochee National Forest, Springer Mountain to Bly Gap, Georgia) and matching up the contour lines it looks to me that the new shelter is still a fair ways away from the BMT - not that it means much in that area with the BMT weaving in and out of the AT - note the map on the whiteblaze photo link is a considerably smaller scale than the AT map


On my Google Earth files, looks like it's been moved farther from the BMT, but I might be using an old BMT track.

On the attached graphic, the BMT is in red, AT in green. The overlayed map is from WhiteBlaze.
The BMT walks the ridge in that area above Stove Creek Shelter - and it looks like the new Shelter is no longer down on the creek but halfway up the side of the ridge between the old AT and the BMT.

max patch
12-31-2007, 19:43
I don't have a map in front of me, but I know from hiking the area:

1. The overlay map done by CoyoteWhips is inaccurate. The BMT and AT intersect furthur south of the Stover Creek Shelters than shown. The BMT would be east of both shelters.

2. What Sgt. Rock says is correct.

The map that Nightwalker drew is good. It does make it look like the 2 shelters are quite a distance apart, but look at the scale. These shelters are really close to each other; probably (and I'm guessing here) no more than 1/2 mile apart max. Probably less.

Lone Wolf
12-31-2007, 20:08
who cares. it's just another shelter that should not have been built

MoodyBluer
12-31-2007, 21:04
It was offered as a museum piece, but no one was willing to have it moved. I would have liked to have seen it as a display somewhere, too, but it was just to heavy and in need of repair to move it easily. Leaving it in place would have required a good bit of maintainence to keep it usable/safe, so it came down.


My first experience with the old Stover Creek shelter was when I stayed in it in June of 1972 with my father and had my first experience of shelter mice. It was almost right beside FS 42 at Big Stamp Gap where I believe the BMT now crosses. We listened all night to the gentle breeze being generated by the bazillions of logging trucks that for some reason wanted to haul trees out of the hills at ungodly hours.

It would have been nice to see it as a museum piece for me to see when I'm up there to remind me of my dad, but in all reality it was a dump and probably impossible to move because of it's age. It was not in very good shape in 1972, then add 35 yrs of age to it and it was just time for it to go.

When they get that old and nasty inside I think they can take away from the positive experience surrounding them (unless it's raining very hard ;-).

max patch
12-31-2007, 21:14
It was almost right beside FS 42 at Big Stamp Gap where I believe the BMT now crosses.

First (and only time) I slept in that shelter was at that location. We got there at night and I didn't even know the road was there. At about 11:00 (this is a true story) 3 drunks parked their car and walked up to the shelter and asked us "how to get to Doraville" (a suburb of Atlanta).

3 of the 4 people with me were on their first backpacking trip. Scared them to death.

Pedaling Fool
12-31-2007, 21:30
Fixed link:

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=17398
I hate to beat a dead horse, but I don't get this map...

The red line, I assume, is the AT, the red/yellow line, it would seem would be the blue-blaze trail leading to the shelter, true?

Pedaling Fool
12-31-2007, 21:40
The shelter was built last spring and the trail was relocated. Nightwalker drew a map which looks real accurate to me:

http://www.whit
eblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=17398 (http://www.whit</p><p>eblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=17398)
I see now, the "trail was relocated", so I guess the red/yellow line is the relocated trail. Makes sense now.

max patch
12-31-2007, 21:47
I see now, the "trail was relocated", so I guess the red/yellow line is the relocated trail. Makes sense now.

Thats right.

Pedaling Fool
12-31-2007, 21:50
That's why I originally was thinking the new shelter was about a 1/4 mile off the AT with a loop trail. Also, after looking at my maps, I now understand why the Sgt Rock says the shelter is closer to the BMT.

Kirby
01-03-2008, 18:46
That's why I originally was thinking the new shelter was about a 1/4 mile off the AT with a loop trail. Also, after looking at my maps, I now understand why the Sgt Rock says the shelter is closer to the BMT.

That's exactly what I thought too, but then after reading your comment, I realized the red-yellow line was the re-located AT, with the line to the shelter being a side trail.

Kirby

Nightwalker
01-05-2008, 02:11
I see now, the "trail was relocated", so I guess the red/yellow line is the relocated trail. Makes sense now.

Yup. I probably should have done the colors different, but you got it.

Sly
01-05-2008, 03:08
As far as thru-hikers go, I do think the shelters breed bad habits. Many rely on them and would be a lot more independent without them. It creates bad habits for folks who don't have a proper shelter setup and creates reliance on man-made structures.

I'm just speaking from my own experiences. I became comfortable living in the wilderness on the PCT when I had to find my own camping spots, not follow a simple grid. The AT would be a lot emptier of a place without all the shelters.

The PCT isn't exactly wilderness either. Unless you're walking on snow it's a well defined path from Mexico to Canada. One of the most remote part of the trail in the Sierras is a zoo in the summer.

What's breeding bad habits on the PCT is the water caches. Did you use any?

Love them or hate them, AT shelters localize impact. It's also a wet trail. It's in a well populated area. If the the shelters weren't available, SAR would probably be bailing out hypothermic people on a regular basis.

It rained on me three times the 1700 miles of CA. I slept under the stars most nights until OR. How much rain did you get?

It's a different trail.