View Full Version : Ramps on the A T
Ron Haven
12-29-2007, 21:15
Every year I talk with many north bound hikers who ask me what ramps is and where to find them.They grow along the trail in many places.I have put a close up picture here to help you identify them so click on these links. http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=20723&c=553
If you will look behind my family you will see them growing in bunches on the bank.Just under the whiteblaze on this tree is many.This is on the AT just north of the Chunky Gal Trail.
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=20724&catid=member&imageuser=12119
I'm hiking south from Kelly's Knob and just north of Addis Gap.You will see many growing on the side of the trail. http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=20725&catid=member&imageuser=12119
YUM! Ramps are terrific fresh, and if you already have hikersmell already - might as well go for it! There are lots of these on the rez at Qualla Boundary too.
Thanks for posting this Ron :)
mdgamewarden
12-29-2007, 21:55
What are ramps?
Ron Haven
12-29-2007, 22:02
I hope this will help many of our AT friends to idenify them.Just a note:you can't pull them up the tops just break off.You have to put your hands in front of them,sink your fingers in the dirt about 3 inches and pull back toward the plant bringing it up out of the dirt.
Make sure it has a button like an onion.There are some plants such as a mountain lilly,helbow,and a type of indian turnip that favors a ramp but no button.
What are ramps?Thanks to Ron Haven for bringing this topic up. I've enjoyed ramps for years. They are awesome and the taste is best described as a garlic and onion in one! Officially they are a wild leek. For more info and pictures check here:
http://main.nc.us/yancey/Ramps/ramps_or_wild_leek.htm
The purple color near the base of the stem sets them apart from similar looking plants. They also ALWAYS have two leaves as opposed to three with similar looking plants. If you've never had them cooked in stir fried potatoes, scrambled eggs, and anything else you like garlic/onions in, well . . . you haven't lived as they say! :D
Ron Haven
12-29-2007, 22:33
What are ramps?We respect nature and when we dig one we pinch off the roots and bury them back in the same dirt.Hope all enjoys them.:)
Ramp photo links
http://www.rampfarm.com/ramp2.jpg
http://nosheteria.com/ramps.jpg
They are delicious, and have a tendency to sweat out of your body in a rather stinky way, but hiking - no problem :)
We respect nature and when we dig one we pinch off the roots and bury them back in the same dirt.Hope all enjoys them.
Very important Ron :)
These things sound very good, I look forward to finding them and put some kick into my noodles... Bam!
does the re-planting the root really work for re-growth?
If you've never had them before, try a friday night where you don't have to work the next day :)
Ramps are best eaten with others who are eating ramps. There is a ramp festival over on Qualla, many cool recipes! (Cherokee Spring Ramp Festival)
Bootstrap
12-29-2007, 23:09
Oh man, I grew up eating these in Western New York (near Jamestown), but had no idea they grew in North Carolina! They are *wonderful*!!!
Jonathan
I like ramps, but I only relish them them in small quantities. I'm certain others will agree.
The 1st eaten raw is always good. Before I'm done with the second, I've already had enough.
Freshly harvested ramps added to fried potatoes, stir-frys, soups or with venison add something that can't be matched. Still, I think ramps are easily overdone and overcooked too.
Here's a little article I found as well on the Flag Pond Ramp Festival site ( Unicoi, TN, held in May)
What is it?
Ramp, ( Allium tricoccum ) a wild plant and is a perennial spring ephemeral also called the wild leek, are a member of the onion family (Alliaceae). Which was a common spring staple in Flag Pond and this Appalachian Region of Tennessee and is widely distributed in eastern North America. Most of the ramps are used in Tennessee, West Virginia, North Carolina, Kentucky, Pennsylvania, Ohio, and Virginia.
All parts of the wild ramps are edible and taste like the sweetest green onion with a sharp, acrid sensationis accompanied by a vilest smelling odor when cooked. The key to eliminate the odor of cooked wild ramps is to eliminate its source. Keep in mind that cooked ramps leaves much less of an odor than raw ramps. Whatever we cooked for dinner, ramps is on the menu from middle of March to the end of May. Most ramps I have had is very mild and I like the odor. Most of my friends out of state wanted to try ramps the moment they heard about it, because they couldn't imagine wild ramps could smell that bad with the flavor of sweet green onion with a hint of garlic.
They are found:
Emerge in the springtime from the South Carolina to Canada and are especially popular in the Tennessee, Pennsylvania, Ohio, West Virginia, North Carolina, Kentucky, and Virginia. Flag Pond and the southern Appalachians represent the southern edge of its range.
The colonies of ramps or wild leeks can be found in cove forests and northern hardwood associations thoroughout the Appalachian Mountains, in rich, dark woodlands near mountain streams and in the northern forested part of New York are colonies of ramps or wild leeks in the mixed of maple,beech and hemlock.
Food
In Appalachia, ramps are most commonly fried with taters in bacon grease or scrambled with eggs and served with bacon, soup beans, coleslaw and cornbread. Wild leeks or ramps, however, are quite adaptable to recipes, they can be used just like onions and garlic and can also be used in soups, salads, puddings, sandwiches and others foods. Many of the world's fine chefs use the flavor of wild leeks or ramps in their recipes. A true ramp person like the flavor of wild leeks raw, but the powerful "leek odor" stays with one for days.
Concern that ramps are being over harvested on U.S. Forest Service land
Civic groups that pick wild ramps for spring festivals and folks that pick ramps for personal use will have to abide by new US Forest Service regulatory policy. A regulatory policy for the harvest of ramps on U.S. Forest Service land has been in effect for the past few years.
National forest service has become concerned that ramps are being over harvested in the National Forest. This concern has been heightened with the increasing popularity of ramp festivals, which require large quantities of ramps. Reports indicate that accessible ramp populations are smaller and less dense than those found in more remote areas of the Forest. Lands in the Cherokee National Forest are broken into compartments for the purpose of regulation the ramp harvest..
They are delicious, and have a tendency to sweat out of your body in a rather stinky wayI have a friend in Silva (near Franklin, NC) who said the public schools there have a rule that any student emitting a strong odor of ramps will be sent home for the day! :D :p
Does the re-planting the root really work for re-growth?
I'm dubious. That's not how one goes about propagating lilies.:-?
Without leaves, there's no photosynthesis and only stored energy to draw upon. What remains of the plant would need to produce an apecial meristem from undifferentiated cells in order to grow new leaves. I'd venture a guess plants treated thusly dry up and do little more than contribute to the organic matter in the soil.
schools there have a rule that any student emitting a strong odor of ramps will be sent home for the day! I believe it! It's sort of like garlic breath coming out from all over your body, but they are really good to eat, and a healthy treat as well. :)
They can also be grown in ramp gardens at your home if you live in the right area.
Ron Haven
12-29-2007, 23:34
They are delicious, and have a tendency to sweat out of your body in a rather stinky way, but hiking - no problem :)
Very important Ron :)Smile I have a great place I visit regularly near Deep Gap and Cape078 I'm sure it does work.This place I revisit they come back really full every year.I probably have taken 2 or 3 hundred hikers there and they have really got a thrill digging them.There is also different wild leaf type plants I pick called,crows foot,branch lettuce and turkey lettuce.
I chop them along with chopped ramps leaves on the ramps also.I pour hot bacon grease over it.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
12-29-2007, 23:56
They are a wonderful addition to noodles and ramen... and the stinky sweat seems to discourage some of the blood-sucking critters like black flies and skeeters.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
12-29-2007, 23:58
Ever heard of seeds?They propogate in a manner similar to garlic and onions - the bulb makes little bulbs....
Ron Haven
12-30-2007, 00:00
Ever heard of seeds?I have heard of the roots turning to seed and I know in late May to early June they turn yellow and are mushy.The top dries up and this is when I have heard it said:they have turned to seed.Is this what you mean?
Pedaling Fool
12-30-2007, 00:19
They propogate in a manner similar to garlic and onions - the bulb makes little bulbs....
When I first started composting, I inadvertantly started growing foot-tall plants, turned out it was potatoes, just started growing from the whole potatoes I threw in the compost.
Anyone wanting to read about establishing a ramp patch of your own can click on "Cultivation of Ramps (http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/depts/hort/hil/hil-133.html)," a Horticulture Information Leaflet provided by North Carolina State University.
I have heard of the roots turning to seed and I know in late May to early June they turn yellow and are mushy.The top dries up and this is when I have heard it said:they have turned to seed.Is this what you mean?
Check out what I just posted. Most people think ramps go dormant or die shortly after the time they're harvested -- not so. Once their leaves have withered, ramps produce another shoot on which seeds are borne before they go dormant.
Ramps are perennials which take several years to mature.
They propagate in a manner similar to garlic and onions - the bulb makes little bulbs....
Perhaps ramps do produce bulblets. I've never seen it, nor have I ever read anything before to indicate it's so, but I've only ever handled them in the spring.
Lilies and other plants that overwinter as bulbs are sometimes deliberately wounded to produce bulblets which are then removed at the proper time and allowed to increase in size until they reach saleable size. In some cases, this technique is faster than seed and, of course, produces plants exactly like the original.
Bulbs treated in this manner are subject to disease and rot. To prevent this from happening, sometimes they are treated with fungicides.
4eyedbuzzard
12-30-2007, 01:01
Wow, with everyone puling up ramps, I guess we'll truly Leave No Trace - of ramps.:-? It's okay though, we can blame all the holes that are left on trekking poles.:rolleyes:
Okay, seriously. I've only had them once, and they were tasty, but there is an ecological impact if everybody starts pulling them up. I'm not saying it's a devastating impact, but it's something to think about.
Ron Haven
12-30-2007, 01:09
If you've never had them before, try a friday night where you don't have to work the next day :)
Ramps are best eaten with others who are eating ramps. There is a ramp festival over on Qualla, many cool recipes! (Cherokee Spring Ramp Festival)Smile,I have heard of that festival.WNC also has others.Some one totld me it was against the law to dig ramps in the Smokies.I don't know that to be true or not.Shade of Gray,I have never tried growing ramps.I always went to the mountains to get them.I am sure that what you say is true.
I go to the mountains sometimes and dig ginsang also.There is a nest of berries in the middle I bury also.I have tried drying them and planting them.I have never got any of them to grow.
Okay, seriously. I've only had them once, and they were tasty, but there is an ecological impact if everybody starts pulling them up. I'm not saying it's a devastating impact, but it's something to think about.
Conservation botanists have been thinking about that impact too! Quite a number of states are watching more closely. Others may follow.
Could wild leek become another ginseng or goldenseal? I hope we never find ourselves in that postion.
I go to the mountains sometimes and dig ginsang also. There is a nest of berries in the middle I bury also.
I'm glad to hear you wait until the seeds are mature to hunt ginseng. I believe what you do is considered to be the best way to gather ginseng from the standpoint of conservation.
It's good it's easiest to find ginseng when it's best for ginseng to be found. That should help both those who gather it and those who protect it from those who would harm it. I think this is a wonderful example of enlightened self-interest.
Did you ever meet Charles Trivett from Damascus? I remember him telling me of the virtues of ginseng and where to find it. He was someone who liked and helped hikers too.
Ron Haven
12-30-2007, 01:51
I'm glad to hear you wait until the seeds are mature to hunt ginseng. I believe what you do is considered to be the best way to gather ginseng from the standpoint of conservation.
It's good it's easiest to find ginseng when it's best for ginseng to be found. That should help both those who gather it and those who protect it from those who would harm it. I think this is a wonderful example of enlightened self-interest.
Did you ever meet Charles Trivett from Damascus? I remember him telling me of the virtues of ginseng and where to find it. He was someone who liked and helped hikers too.I don't think so,but i bet there is a lot of it near there.
Ramps? I hate ramps, especially the ones in Cloverdale! ;)
Lone Wolf
12-30-2007, 02:56
Whitetop Ramp Festival
www.virginia.org/site/description.asp?attrID=16171
SGT Rock
12-30-2007, 08:50
I love ramps. Thanks for the quick class on how to ID them and the local NC ramp pickers. That family looks familiar.
Whitetop Ramp Festival
www.virginia.org/site/description.asp?attrID=16171 (http://www.virginia.org/site/description.asp?attrID=16171)
IIRC, the date usually coincides with Trail Days... or near the end of TD. Worth catching if one is around for TD anyway.
Lone Wolf
12-30-2007, 10:51
IIRC, the date usually coincides with Trail Days... or near the end of TD. Worth catching if one is around for TD anyway.
yup. always the sunday of trail days. Maineak won the ramp eating contest many years in a row.
Nearly Normal
12-30-2007, 13:04
If your prone to indigestion I wouldn't fool with them.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
12-30-2007, 14:47
Perhaps ramps do produce bulblets. I've never seen it, nor have I ever read anything before to indicate it's so, but I've only ever handled them in the spring.I have a small number of ramps in my garlic patch as I use them (sparingly) in cooking some. I've seen the bulblets and know they will come up. Haven't had much luck with the seeds. Maybe the lack of bees (didn't get pollinated):confused:
They are very similar to wild onions or garlic (I have many bunches put up for winter here, they are small but delicious), and they do have little bulblets on them. They are much easier to start than seeds :)
Ramps are terrific with brook trout, stuff inside, add a little butter, salt and pepper and some olive oil....man I could eat some right now!
If you have a camera capable of producing a satisfactory digital image, I'd like to see one. Where and when do these bulblets, offsets or scales form?
Some one told me it was against the law to dig ramps in the Smokies. I don't know that to be true or not.
While looking for something else, I found a report published by Appalachian Plant Materials Center (See p. 2 (http://www.wv.nrcs.usda.gov/technical/pmc/06pmcProgressreport.pdf)) which indicates gathering ramps in GSMNP at least had been permitted, which surprised me. Before collecting there, I'd want to call ahead to be certain.*
The article I mentioned and linked pertains to research being conducted on behalf of the Cherokee Nation that will lead to establishing ramp gardens on tribal lands.
*After posting, I read elsewhere, cut and pasted what follows: In response to the increased harvests, and in light of studies showing a ramp population needs many years to recover from a single harvest (Rock 1996), the Smoky Mountain National Park, in North Carolina and Tennessee, banned the harvesting of ramps in 2002.
Seems odd those who wrote the report published in April 2007 didn't know what apparently ocurred in 2002.
I have relatives there, they pick ramps there all the time, and large leaves they stuff, they look like grape leaves.
If I recall, they are at the top of the flower, I don't have any here, but will see if I have any photos for you :)
Here is some general info from this page: (http://www.discoverlife.org/nh/tx/Plantae/Monocotyledoneae/Liliaceae/Allium/tricoccum/index.html)
General Information:
The American Indians and pioneers made use of the Wild Leek leaves and bulbs for seasoning. They used it for bland or tasteless foods. The bulbs were also served as an emergency food supply. The pioneer women, in some cases, pickled the bulbs and considered them a delicacy. Insect stings were treated by rubbing juice of a crushed bulb on the affected area. The tea of a bulb could effectively induce vomiting(Runkel).
When the Cherokees gathered the bulbs they cut or broke off the little stub under the bulb and replanted it so the plant would continue to grow. This was an excellent example of resource conservation because the roots would have been discarded before use of the plant anyway(Runkel).
The Wild Leek is disliked by the dairymen. This is because when eaten by cows, it would give off a strong and disagreeable flavor to milk(Runkel).
There are ramp festivals as a part of the American folklore in the Appalachian Mountain and Plateau regions. The foliage and bulbs are cooked and eaten raw in salads(Roberts).
they are tasty, if you like garlic and onions, not only give you bad breath, but if you sweat the next day you can really smell them:eek:
Frolicking Dinosaurs
12-30-2007, 19:51
If you have a camera capable of producing a satisfactory digital image, I'd like to see one. Where and when do these bulblets, offsets or scales form?The bulblets form mainly in the late spring and late fall I think.... I cut off the root as in Smile's posts as well most of the time. It is dark and raining here so no pic today - maybe tomorrow. I haven't been out there since the last two frosts so no guarantees the plants are still in a photogenic state - they die back in the winter.
I love ramps! Thanx for starting this thread Ron.
Now, have any of you ever eaten Fiddlehead Fern? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiddlehead
Ron Haven
12-30-2007, 21:57
I love ramps! Thanx for starting this thread Ron.
Now, have any of you ever eaten Fiddlehead Fern? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiddlehead (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiddlehead[/quote] TOW,you) TOW,you are welcome.I took these pictures in the spring of 2007 and saved them until now so hikers could find them on the trail.I also go early into Nantahala and dig some to show hikers.
I wanted to start this thread early so it would be fresh on the mind of the north bounders and they would be looking for them and I hope they can find some.Some love them and some hate them.Even if you don't like them and have a little shot of shine it changes the flavor until you can't get enough.
I will do all I can to help hikers as they are coming thru Franklin to have fun and enjoy their hike.I thank all of the other whiteblazers who posted those other pictures to help fellow hikers also.
I plan on going in March around the 10th to the 15th this year.Usually after a warm spring rain they pop up as soon as the sun comes out.
:sun
More Ramp photo links:
Ramps Large Group
http://donwiss.com/pictures/F-2000-05-14/0058.jpg
Ramps Large Group closeup
http://donwiss.com/pictures/F-2000-05-14/0059.jpg
Ramps Large single group
http://donwiss.com/pictures/F-2001-04-14/0017.jpg
Ramp bulblets
http://www.cosbyrampfestival.org/earlyramps.gif
Ramp Flower Close-up
http://www.wildmanstevebrill.com/JPEG'S/Plant%20Web%20Images/RampFlowersPhoto.jpg
Ramp Fruit
http://www.wildmanstevebrill.com/JPEG'S/Plant%20Web%20Images/RampFruit.jpg
Ramp Seeds
http://www.wildmanstevebrill.com/JPEG'S/Plant%20Web%20Images/RampSeeds.jpg
Ramp Seeds Large
http://www.wildmanstevebrill.com/JPEG'S/Plant%20Web%20Images/RampSeedsLarge.jpg
Young Ramps (When they are tender and best to eat)
http://www.wildmanstevebrill.com/JPEG'S/Plant%20Web%20Images/RampWhole.Photo.jpg
Ramp Bulb
http://www.wildmanstevebrill.com/JPEG'S/Plant%20Web%20Images/RampBulb.2.jpg
Ramp Skeleton
http://www.wildmanstevebrill.com/JPEG'S/Plant%20Web%20Images/RampSkeleton.jpg
Ramp Bulbs
http://www.mydirttime.com/photos/EdiblePlantSurvivalProject/large_Leeks.jpg
The bulblets form mainly in the late spring and late fall I think.... I cut off the root as in Smile's posts as well most of the time. It is dark and raining here so no pic today - maybe tomorrow. I haven't been out there since the last two frosts so no guarantees the plants are still in a photogenic state - they die back in the winter.
A photo has been provided and I have found a few references to vegetative propagation although I still wonder to what extent it contributes overall to population increase or whether burying the base of bulbs is of any value at all.
Apparently ramps produce what I had referred to as offsets earlier. This same propagule is produced by Erythronium, trout lily. I've also seen drawings of bulbs that split for lack of the proper term in the manner of tulip bulbs.
Here's a 2004 press release (http://www.srs.fs.usda.gov/news/65) from USDA Forest Service's Southern Research Station about its research related to the sustainability of ramp festivals.
You found some better pics than I'd seen previously and I'm sure it took more than just a few minutes on your part to locate and post them.
When I headed north from Springer on 20 April of last year the forest floor was abundant with ramps. They're everywhere that time of year and easy to find because it's one of the only green things you see.
Didn't I see a photo here a while back of someone cooking ramps with fiddleheads?
turtle fast
12-31-2007, 16:12
Excellent thread, I am anxious to try ramps now. My wife wants to go to the Cherokee Spring Ramp Festival in Qualla, sounds like it would be a lot of fun. Coincidently to also visit the Museum of the Cherokee to get reaquanted with her Cherokee roots.
Ron Haven
12-31-2007, 16:45
Excellent thread, I am anxious to try ramps now. My wife wants to go to the Cherokee Spring Ramp Festival in Qualla, sounds like it would be a lot of fun. Coincidently to also visit the Museum of the Cherokee to get reaquanted with her Cherokee roots.Speaking of the Cherokee roots I have a quiz question.Now don't cheat and go look it up.As the head of our nation is Washington,DC.
Are there any Whiteblazers who know where the original head of the Cherokee nations council was? It was not in NC.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
12-31-2007, 16:57
Would that be Echota near Calhoun, GA - the community lost when Lake Lanier was formed?
Ron Haven
12-31-2007, 17:31
Would that be Echota near Calhoun, GA - the community lost when Lake Lanier was formed?you are right.I can't speak for every tribe but the Cherokee has always had 3 chiefs.In the days before the white settlers came Echota was the head of the tribal council and there was the principal cheif.Today it is in Cherokee,NC The other chief was a war time chief and a peace time chief who was head of each tribe.Each tribe had 7 clans and a speaker of each clan sat on all the councils.
Rain Man
12-31-2007, 19:54
From "Wildflowers of the Smokies" (1996) by Peter White, et al, page 102--
"Traditionally ramps were dug for food during the Zodiac sign Aries. The symbol for Aries is the ram and this plant was called 'ram's son.' This was shortened over the years to 'ramps.' "
Thought some might find that interesting.
Rain:sunMan
.
Ron Haven
12-31-2007, 20:01
Ron, are you Tsalagi?No,but being raised this close to Cherokee I spent a lot of time on the reservation.The word Tsalagi means Cherokee.The town of Franklin was originally Nakwasi.
Hey Ron, remember that bus ride I took with you when you delivered the crew to go hike and when we were coming down you were telling me about that plantation? What was the name of that ranch where all the slaves were when the Civil War broke out? I'll never forget the story you told me about what happened there.
I'm coming to the ruck, I'd like to hear more about that area.
Ron Haven
12-31-2007, 20:39
Hey Ron, remember that bus ride I took with you when you delivered the crew to go hike and when we were coming down you were telling me about that plantation? What was the name of that ranch where all the slaves were when the Civil War broke out? I'll never forget the story you told me about what happened there.
I'm coming to the ruck, I'd like to hear more about that area.The Moody Farm.This year I might run that trip by going the other way.
Bootstrap
01-01-2008, 20:10
The 1st eaten raw is always good. Before I'm done with the second, I've already had enough.
Fresh in fried potatoes, stir-frys, soups or with venison they add something that can't be matched. Still, I think ramps are easily overdone and overcooked too.
I like them cooked just until tender with a little white wine, which is how I learned when I was growing up. If you get it just right, I can eat tons of them.
Raw? Naw....
Jonathan
Tipi Walter
01-01-2008, 20:18
I need more cowbell. I gotta have more ramps!
You guys are into your ramps!! I spot them, I eat them. Simple as that.
You guys need the whole package year long!
Ramps and fiddleheads in the spring.
Wild greens year long...know your dandelion, chickory and Plantains...
Sassafras tea by May..an old favorite of the founding fathers.
Spicebush tea and dried spicebush berries...
Pine needle tea (though NOT for pregnant women)
Sumac Tea in the fall
There's good eatin' in them there woods.
Ron Haven
04-06-2008, 08:49
Ramps are ready around the Franklin area:D
I hope this will help many of our AT friends to idenify them.Just a note:you can't pull them up the tops just break off.You have to put your hands in front of them,sink your fingers in the dirt about 3 inches and pull back toward the plant bringing it up out of the dirt...............................ETC............ .......................
"Model T" taught me how to spot them...they ARE DEE-LISH & brighten up some bland trail food.:D
"Jigsaw" & will be in the "Shennies" NoBo Turks Gap to Harpers Ferry Apr 26-May 10...hope to see some you WB-ers out there!
Ramps are ready around the Franklin area:D
Mmmmmmmm Ramps!!!! :D
I'm not aware of anywhere in The Green Diamond where ramps are common enough to support gathering them. I've long desired to start a small patch somewhere on my own property or somewhere I might gather a small quantity each spring.
Does anyone who has transplanted them have suggestions on how to best go about establishing a small patch and sustainably harvesting a small quantity annually? I'm also wondering when the optimal time would be to lift and move them? Any ideas or suggestions would be appreciated!
Ramps transplanting/cultivation (http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/depts/hort/hil/hil-133.html)
Lone Wolf
04-06-2008, 09:10
Ramps are ready around the Franklin area:D
here too
Thanks, woodsy. For someone who who who supposedly doesn't exist, you sure can post good links fast.;)
Tipi Walter
04-06-2008, 09:15
I saw my first ramp of the year on March 30 in the Citico wilderness. At about 4200 feet.
Thanks, woodsy. For someone who who who supposedly doesn't exist, you sure can post good links fast.;)
Trail magic:rolleyes:
more here....Ramps cultivation (http://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/ncnu02/v5-449.html)
Our first crop of greens are Fiddleheads...yummmmm
Trail magic:rolleyes:
Don't get me started, you rascal!
Our first crop of greens are Fiddleheads...yummmmm
Ostrich and/or cinnamon ferns, right?
Ostrich and/or cinnamon ferns, right?
Ostrich Fern (http://www.umext.maine.edu/onlinepubs/htmpubs/4198.htm)
Those folks really know how to get the word out. Recipes too!:)
Despair not, woodsy, spring cometh and it will provide an abundance of fiddleheads throughout the wilds.:sun
Despair not, woodsy, spring cometh and it will provide an abundance of fiddleheads throughout the wilds.:sun
First comes Sugarin'(now), then comes Fiddleheading, then comes Ramping, yes, we have Ramps too, although we call em wild leeks or wild onions just cause we're different.
I was pleasantly surprised one day while casting flies along a remote stream not far west of the AT when the aroma of onions overtook me.:)
Yes, indeed, there are ramps in Maine and I know of some small populations, but it's a rare species. Through the magic of the Internet and Google:rolleyes:, I will post a link shortly, provided I can recollect the magical keystrokes.;)
To learn what Maine Natural Areas Program would like you to know about wild leek, click on rare plant fact sheet (http://www.mainenaturalareas.org/docs/rare_plants/links/factsheets/alliumtricoccum.pdf).
I dig ramps and then find this thread!
We dig ramps every spring. Last year I transplanted a few to my raised bed garden. We saw the ramps were coming up last weekend, on top of the mt. and I was disappointed NOT to have found my transplants breaking ground. Yesterday, I returned to the garden to plant a few I found a little small for eating and THERE THEY ARE. My year old transplants have popped up. I have them in a location which is shaded during the hottest part of the day (like my currants), so far so good. I was doubtful they would take hold here since they grow naturally so high. Maybe it helps they can see their old neighborhood from my yard. ;)
The Roanoke paper had an article last spring about ramps becoming a toney favorite. Emeril even has ramp recipes. May NON-hikers are wanting to keep up with other gourmands and digging ramps in the NF and SNP. The Forestry Service and NPS in this area are considering banning ramp digging, as they have done with ginseng. With all the time I spend in the foest, I have only seen ginseng once, and it had to be pointed out to me by two old ginseng hunters, Nessmuk and his brother.
The Ramp festival in Richwood WV is in 2 weeks. We are planning a truck camping and hiking weekend there, around the festival. We also have Trail Days and the Ramp Festival at Mt. Rogers on the calendar.
I cook MANY things with ramps and morels both--no sign of morels yet, btw. My favorite ramp dish is a simple substitution--hot German potato salad with ramps instead of onions--OUT OF THIS WORLD.
Like eveyone around here, I closely guard ramp and morel growing locations. Nessmuk is less close-mouthed because fewer people like ramps than morels AND some people WANT ramps but are unwilling to bushwhack to their growing spots with a bag and tool and risk getting dirty.
PS--cut the greens off the ramps, chop and freeze them. I throw them into MANY dishes. They taste like spinach! Really!
PPS--Nessmuk adds ramp bulbs to vinegar which he reserves as a condiment for his greens. YUM.
Frau--ramp and morel cook:sun
Frau, it does not surprise me you have mastered German potato salad. I respect your desire to not reveal your favorite locations to gather ramps, but would you consider divulging your secret German potato salad recipe?
Also, do you blanche the tops of ramps before freezing them? If so, how long?
we call em wild leeks or wild onions just cause we're different. [my bold]
Some time ago, I threatened to start a thread I knew would be too much fun. Since you've now invited it with your comment, I'll start it although I don't have time to participate much today.
Yes, indeed, there are ramps in Maine and I know of some small populations, but it is a watch list species.
To read a fact sheet about wild leeks, click on Maine DOC Natural Areas Program (http://www.mainenaturalareas.org/docs/rare_plants/links/factsheets/alliumtricoccum.pdf) to learn what they know and would like to share with you.
It appears from the map that no one has caught wind of or reported the substantial patch I stumbled upon.;)
Two states list it as endangered or threatened:
Threatened and Endangered Information:
Allium burdickii (Hanes) A.G. Jones
This plant is listed by the U.S. federal government or a state. Common names are from state and federal lists. Click on a place name to get a complete protected plant list for that location.
New York (http://plants.usda.gov/java/threat?statelist=states&stateSelect=US36): wild leek Endangered Tennessee (http://plants.usda.gov/java/threat?statelist=states&stateSelect=US47): narrow-leaf ramps Commercially Exploited, Threatened
It appears from the map that no one has caught wind of or reported the substantial patch I stumbled upon.;)
You should inform Maine's Natural Areas Program. They would want to know about your find. It should also be made known to MATC.
I should revisit MNAP's website before I report to work to get wild leek's current status. I don't know for sure if Maine's still using the term watch list.
You should inform Maine's Natural Areas Program. They would want to know about your find.
Yeah yeah yeah, thats what the IF&W said about Lynx/tracks sightings.
Called them, spoke to answering machine two weeks ago, they're not even courteous enough to return call............
It appears Maine Natural Areas Program (http://www.mainenaturalareas.org/docs/rare_plants/) (MNAP) is now using the term species of concern (SC) to designate plants that are rare (S3) but do not merit listing as threatened (S2) or endangered (S1). Information about how MNAP determines what plants are listed and the list itself can be obtained by clicking on the link provided.
S-O-G,
I will gladly share the German potato salad recipe. A student of mine brought it for culture day and brought his mother's recipe with it.
I do not blanch the greens first. Just treat them like the parsley and basil: chop and freeze.
While hiking this afternoon we met up with a Nessmuk friend who actually showed up 6 morels he had gathered. Won't be long now.
Nessmuk tossed the ramp root ends outside yesterday and now that I have read about planting the root ends, I am going to stick them in the ground momentarily (it has been raining for several days. I also have persimmons I had frozen, which we are going to plant, too. I have yet to master them. Even the ones I picked AFTER a good freeze are alummy. Any ideas with that?
Frau
I also have persimmons I had frozen, which we are going to plant, too. I have yet to master them. Even the ones I picked AFTER a good freeze are alummy. Any ideas with that?
Frau
I haven't eaten many native persimmons. Those I ate were picked from the ground likely after freezing and refreezing several times. Even then, there was too much nastiness remaining to really enjoy them. I suspect that attribute varies over quite a range.
I've read that 2 or more trees are normally required for proper pollination although I know of what I believe to be an isolated wild tree that fruits regularly. I would consider planting a Meader persimmon which is self-fertile.
I'm really pleased with my paw-paws which have now borne fruit for 2 years. Do you gather them too?
Ron Haven
04-07-2008, 20:34
here tooL Wolf do they have anymore ramp festivals around Damascus except that one near there during trail days?
S-O-G,
I've been considering an Asian persimmon, but the wild ones are so plentiful around here. A friend of Nessmuk's makes the most delicious persimmon cookies. I hope she will share the recipe with me.
I do gather paw-paws and hope to find a recipe to use with them. I may experiment with something like pay-paw bread. I am sure you are familiar with the Foot Bridge where the AT crosses the James River? There are MANY paw-paw trees on both sides of the river.
Speaking of harvesting, we got our first red bud blooms this weekend. Ever try them?
Frau
PS--should I PM the potato salad recipe to you?
We had never heard of ramps until our section hike. Our shuttle guy told us about them. We did not find any, but went to Asheville on our way home and bought a bunch of them at the farmer's market. Yum with hash browns. We still laugh how they stunk up the car so bad on the way home (13 hours) we had to put them in the waaaay back. Almost stink as bad as a White Castle to go order we haul from eastern Mo. for friends here. My little travel cooler smelled like ramps for months.We cannot get them here and no one has ever heard of them.:o
S-O-G, should I PM the potato salad recipe to you?
Absolutely!:sun
April 20th of last year I hiked north from Springer and the forest floor was covered with ramps all the way to Blood Mtn.
I gathered quit a number of fiddleheads last year and enjoyed them raw in salads, but wasn't happy with the cooked version. The fern was just a very common one that grows locally. I tried the heads of what Nessmuk calls an ostrich fern--covered with brown hair and quite large--and didn't like them at all!
Suggestions, directions?
Frau
I think you may be describing cinnamon fern fiddleheads. Click on Post #73 (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showpost.php?p=587426&postcount=73) then Ostrich Fern for University of Maine Cooperative Extension Bulletin #4198.
....and I thought the only ramp on the AT was Rogers Ramp near Cornwall Bridge in Connecticut!
Flush2wice
04-20-2008, 19:52
We have loads in the woods behind our house. One fave is ramp pesto- put it on noodles or salmon or anything that you'd put basil pesto on. The other is raw ramps in a spinach, bacon, hard boiled egg and strawberry salad with strawberry vinigrette dressing. Tomorrow we're doing a ramp soup.
I have not put away our ramp dish for this evening--ramps, morels and tenderloin! We spent all day foraging and cleaning our harvest.
Please tell me aobut the ramp pesto--what besides ramps? And what about the strawberry vinagarette dressing?
Frau--who broke her ramp hoe today
I have not put away our ramp dish for this evening--ramps, morels and tenderloin!
Why don't you really punish the rest of us and post an image!:rolleyes:
Frau--who broke her ramp hoe today
Serves you right!:p
Ron Haven
04-20-2008, 20:52
I eat some chopped up real fine in deviled eggs here awile back and they were great.
:(
Broke my hoe! Nessmuk will take the remains and have the handle replaced by the juvenile convicts at his work. They have a wood shop and need work to do.
BUT, I will most likely not get my hoe back until after ramp season.:(
Frau
Lone Wolf
04-20-2008, 21:58
I eat some chopped up real fine in deviled eggs here awile back and they were great.
me, pirate, wee willie, yuma and fat chap just ate fried taters with ramps and filet mignons that yuma provided, this evening at my house.
Bulldawg
04-20-2008, 22:02
Gosh, I have had my eyes peeled for three weeks or so in the woods and can't catch sight of any RAMPS! Do they not grow this far south?
I hear they sometimes are found near privies.;)
Flush2wice
04-20-2008, 22:52
I hear they sometimes are found near privies.;)
The newer privies have ramps. I think it's for hikers in wheelchairs.
Lone Wolf
04-20-2008, 22:55
The newer privies have ramps. I think it's for hikers in wheelchairs.
yeah, dumbest friggin thing i've ever seen. big ass waste of $$
Shouldn't hikers in wheelchairs be able to experience ramps too? What I don't get is why maintaining clubs are required to put ramps by privies. Closer to shelters where hikers are more likely to cook would be a better place, but the best place to put ramps would be along the trail where hikers could gather them as they walk.
The Weasel
04-20-2008, 23:15
Speaking purely hypothetically (since we all know that the California Agricultural Commission, which gets bent out of shape about some things being mailed), is anyone willing to mail some ramps that can be replanted to seed more. I know this guy who would love someone to help him out. PM me if you are willing to help this guy I know.
The Weasel
I don't know if they grow in GA, but I certainly wouldn't look for them anywhere below 4000 ft., unless transplanted by someone like me.
Frau
Bulldawg
04-21-2008, 21:18
I don't know if they grow in GA, but I certainly wouldn't look for them anywhere below 4000 ft., unless transplanted by someone like me.
Frau
OK, so no Ramps below 4000 feet, is that right Ron?
Earlier in this thread, woodsy linked the USDA Plants profile for Allium burdickii (Hanes) A.G. Jones but had drilled down several levels. I had intended to point out earlier most people are more likely to encounter Allium tricoccum Aiton.
To display USDA's Plants profile for Allium tricoccum Aiton (http://plants.usda.gov/java/profile?symbol=ALTR3), click on the binomial. Its distribution in Georgia can be seen by moving down to the map and clicking on Georgia.
Since it occurs in only 2 counties, it ought to be fairly common to not warrant listing by Georgia.
Ron Haven
04-21-2008, 21:58
me, pirate, wee willie, yuma and fat chap just ate fried taters with ramps and filet mignons that yuma provided, this evening at my house.Sounds like you guys all had fun.
Lone Wolf
04-21-2008, 22:01
OK, so no Ramps below 4000 feet, is that right Ron?
i found tons of them at 1900 feet in vermont
The small populations of which I know in Maine are at much lower elevation.
Bulldawg
04-21-2008, 22:37
Earlier in this thread, woodsy linked the USDA Plants profile for Allium burdickii (Hanes) A.G. Jones but had drilled down several levels. I had intended to point out earlier most people are more likely to encounter Allium tricoccum Aiton.
To display USDA's Plants profile for Allium tricoccum Aiton (http://plants.usda.gov/java/profile?symbol=ALTR3), click on the binomial. Its distribution in Georgia can be seen by moving down to the map and clicking on Georgia.
Since it occurs in only 2 counties, it must be fairly common within them to not warrant listing by Georgia.
Those happen to be the two counties where I've looked for them the most. Hey Ron, I notice Rabun isn't listed there. Surely if you've got them in Franklin, they should be in Rabun?
thecaptain
04-21-2008, 22:43
Dayhiked to chestnut knob shelter yesterday....I saw several patches of ramps just north of the shelter...they were above 4000 feet elevation
Those happen to be the two counties where I've looked for them the most.
Ramps are not considered to be endangered or threatened by Georgia, but I've now discovered they do appear on its watch list. Click on Georgia plants watch list (http://www.georgiawildlife.com/content/watchedplants.asp) to see this list and for additional information.
Its State rank is listed as S3? which Georgia defines as rare or uncommon (21-100 occurrences). I would think occurrences means populations.
I wandered thru Ramp heaven today.......and no I'm not telling you where!!!;)
Flush2wice
04-22-2008, 08:32
They sell them down at the gas station for $4.50 per bunch. There's about 12 per bunch.:rolleyes:
I can understand that price in NYC, but right here in ramp central?? I get them from my back yard.
Lone Wolf
04-22-2008, 09:13
They sell them down at the gas station for $4.50 per bunch. There's about 12 per bunch.:rolleyes:
I can understand that price in NYC, but right here in ramp central?? I get them from my back yard.
18 years ago i stopped at fru-fru produce place in stowe, vermont. ramps were $6.50 per pound
Ron Haven
04-22-2008, 19:06
18 years ago i stopped at fru-fru produce place in stowe, vermont. ramps were $6.50 per poundhow many is in a pound?
I was thinking the same. It would be easier for me to compare apples to oranges. Who's got an accurate scale, more than a pound of ramps (wild leeks), knows how to count and can read what the scale registers? I don't care about the other kind of ramps at the moment and don't have time for any crap about witches, wood and geese.
Earlier in this thread, woodsy linked the USDA Plants profile for Allium burdickii (Hanes) A.G. Jones but had drilled down several levels. I had intended to point out earlier most people are more likely to encounter Allium tricoccum Aiton.
Ah, so there is the difference, knew there must have been one as different states list "Ramps" with different names. Thanks for the clarification SOG.:)
Sometimes it takes someone who doesn't exist and has nothing better to do to shed a little light on things.
Remote viewing is easy. I still haven't mastered remote weighing and for someone who doesn't exist I have little patience.
Flush2wice
04-22-2008, 21:37
They sell them down at the gas station for $4.50 per bunch. There's about 12 per bunch.:rolleyes:
I can understand that price in NYC, but right here in ramp central?? I get them from my back yard.
18 years ago i stopped at fru-fru produce place in stowe, vermont. ramps were $6.50 per pound
how many is in a pound?
I was thinking the same. It would be easier for me to compare apples to oranges. Who's got an accurate scale, more than a pound of ramps (wild leeks), knows how to count and can read what the scale registers? I don't care about the other kind of ramps at the moment and don't have time for any crap about witches, wood and geese.
I was back down at the gas station today and they lowered the price to $4 per bunch and the bunches looked bigger. I would estimate that the bunch was less than a pound. In volume they would maybe stuff tightly into a tennis ball can. These still had the roots which are useless, and lots of folks don't even use the leaves. So if you just counted the bulbs and stems it was maybe in the neighborhood of a half pound or less. Next time I'm down there I'll ask where they came from.
Today I hiked from Hughes Gap to Little Rock Knob (2.5 miles one way) and there were a bazillion ramps. There's a little spring by the trail where someone had placed a ramp leaf into the flow to make it easier to fill a bottle. I wish I had a camera cause it was so cute. Maybe I'll go back and take a pic later this week. I wonder if it affected the flavor? BTW, there were also a bazillion trout lillies. There were also 50 bazillion holes on each side of the trail from hiker poles. It looked like freshly plowed earth.
Maybe ramps like it where the elevation, sun, shade, and temperature produce some magic number. I have only found them near 4000 ft. and above, around here. I have also found them up high in WVA. We certainly don't have the temps found in New England. We only know that we needn't bother looking for them unless we are up high (for the area surrounding Rockbridge Co. VA.
Of course we DID find some on Bluff Mt. the other day, and I think that is a little below 4000.;)
Frau
Flush2wice
04-22-2008, 21:56
Maybe ramps like it where the elevation, sun, shade, and temperature produce some magic number. I have only found them near 4000 ft. and above, around here. I have also found them up high in WVA. We certainly don't have the temps found in New England. We only know that we needn't bother looking for them unless we are up high (for the area surrounding Rockbridge Co. VA.
Of course we DID find some on Bluff Mt. the other day, and I think that is a little below 4000.;)
Frau
If I go back in the next couple days I'll take a picture to post. It was like the poppy scene in the Wizard of Oz.
Next time I'm down there, I'll ask where they came from.
Did they look fresh? I bet the damned things came from China like everything else!:mad:
Today I hiked from Hughes Gap to Little Rock Knob (2.5 miles one way) and there were a bazillion ramps.
Does that mean some will be on the brown truck for me when it goes by tomorrow? Since they wouldn't be right out of the ground,:-? something would surely be lost.:( I must have ramps in my backyard.:jump
I have ramps in my garage, nice oak ramps, sawed them myself,:) but my teeth aren't what they once were:rolleyes: and those ramps serve me better in other ways.;)
There were also 50 bazillion holes on each side of the trail from hiker poles. It looked like freshly plowed earth.
You know, 50 bazillion isn't a number that exists. Besides, if there were that many holes, you would have been doing far more good had you been stuffing ramps in them as fast as you could and tamping your dibble into the ground until the sun goes down, but instead you post here!
Go look for your eye.:sun
Flush2wice
04-23-2008, 14:11
You know, 50 bazillion isn't a number that exists.
Well, maybe 40 bazillion then.
Besides, if there were that many holes, you would have been doing far more good had you been stuffing ramps in them as fast as you could and tamping your dibble into the ground until the sun goes down, but instead you are post here!
I'll keep my dibble zipped up, thank you very much. :eek:
Go look for your eye.:sun
This will be my next avatar. :)
3907
I guess that means you either don't have a pound of ramps or a scale or else don't know how to interpret what information it provides.
F2w,
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!
Flush2wice
04-23-2008, 22:07
I guess that means you either don't have a pound of ramps or a scale or else don't know how to interpret what information it provides.
yeah, but I'm lookin hard. you got a flashlight?
Ron Haven
04-24-2008, 21:15
I was thinking the same. It would be easier for me to compare apples to oranges. Who's got an accurate scale, more than a pound of ramps (wild leeks), knows how to count and can read what the scale registers? I don't care about the other kind of ramps at the moment and don't have time for any crap about witches, wood and geese.The name (wild Leeks) :-? sounds like a name that a politician made up for ramps :cool:
Lone Wolf
04-25-2008, 08:28
The name (wild Leeks) :-? sounds like a name that a politician made up for ramps :cool:
a damn yankee liberal sumbitch at that!
Hummingbird
04-25-2008, 11:38
There is a Ramp Festival all day the Sunday of Trail Days. It is on top of White Mountain and easy to find. There is also a contest for anyone who can eat the most ramps in a certain amount of minutes. (Sorry...cannot remember the minutes). The winner gets $100. The same man wins every year. He brings Kaeopectate to take immediately after the contest.
Wonder if one of the hikers can win that $100 this year.
Lots of great music, arts and crafts and fun.
Hummingbird
I read somewhere that you were not allowed to harvest ramps in SNP, does anyone know if this is true?
Ron Haven
04-25-2008, 20:13
I read somewhere that you were not allowed to harvest ramps in SNP, does anyone know if this is true?This is correct.But if they caught me digging one to eat I would tell them I thought I saw a snake go in the ground and I was digging it up to see what kind it was:rolleyes:
I do know it is allowed in the National Forest. We harvest ours from National Park Service land nearby, but are careful not to attract attention. We know we can collect mushrooms (LOTS so far this apring), but don't know about the ramps and are afraid to ask. If they say "NO" then we have to abide by the rule. We slip in and back out under the radar.
Wish I were more help.
Frau
Just read Ron's post. We do have a place we can dig that is NOT Park Service land, but it is a longer hike and rockier soil. We may need go back to that plan.
Fr.
a damn yankee liberal sumbitch at that!
Hard to believe someone could turn a discussion about wild edibles into a political fiasco. But then it is a L.Wolf doing it:rolleyes:
TIDE-HSV
04-26-2008, 21:50
For many years, there was a major ramp festival each spring in Polk Cty TN, on Big Frog mountain, which straddles the GA/TN line and is a stone's throw from NC. When Big Frog became a wilderness area in the 70s, it pretty well ended it. The only trail up which would admit wagons was closed to all but non-mechanized traffic, and a lot of the folks who used to travel up to the Chestnut Mtn trail intersection where the festival was held by truck, etc., couldn't make it on foot, so the festival died out. The area there is around the magic 4K' level, Big Frog being at 4220', if my aging memory serves...
I heeded Ron's warning and did my digging AWAY from prying eyes today. There were MANY unusual things going on on the mountain today. There appeared to be some sort of marathon and one of the 'stations' was right at our usual ramp dig.
There were also car loads of people 'not from around here'--birders. Despite all the prying eyes I managed about 3/4 grocery bag of morels and 10 lbs of ramps.
Frau :sun
Wise Old Owl
05-11-2008, 20:02
Hard to believe someone could turn a discussion about wild edibles into a political fiasco. But then it is a L.Wolf doing it:rolleyes:
Hijacking a thread? I couldn't say it better myself... I am still trying to figure out how liberals were Yankee's at the same time... strange stereotyping.
The mushrooms are gone, but boy did we get some beautiful FAT ramps yesterday! We'll have them for another week or two before they flower.
We dehydrated a few trays and Nessmuk has already made ramp powder out of them. He uses it for as a dry marinade for wild game.
I also cooked up a few messes of poke this past week, and collected a few more saparagus sprouts. Hope I can locate some more plants this fall.
Frau
Two Speed
05-11-2008, 22:22
Forgive me for a stupid question, but why is it bad if ramps flower?
Ron Haven
05-12-2008, 00:11
Forgive me for a stupid question, but why is it bad if ramps flower?They are starting to turn to seed and the roots are starting to rott and are real mushy.
Many things are suposed to be harvested before flowering--lettuce, garlic mustard, onions ('natch), spinach to name only a very few.
With ramps, in addition to the bulb problem, the leaves die back. I actually use the chopped up leave more in cooking, than I do the bulbs--probably because I get way more leaves, and also because Nessmuk cuts off the greens when he makes the powder.
Fr.
Flowers June-July on a scape, which is a botanical term for a leafless stalk. Seeds ripen August-Septmeber.
Unless someone would know he or she is looking at a wild leek that person would likely never guess what it is.
Need a refresher, click on post #46 (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showpost.php?p=486060&postcount=46) to view images posted earlier in this thread.