View Full Version : Trouble at Pleasant Pond, Carratunk
Game warden and snowmobile fall through thin ice. (http://morningsentinel.mainetoday.com/news/local/4604608.html?com_full=1#begin)
Residents upset over opening pond to ice fishing.(everyone knows its the quickest way to kill a fishery)
Don't get me wrong, I respect wardens and the tough job they have, but they are constantly reminding us recently that the ice is not safe in many places. I think this is the first snowmobile through the ice this season. A case of do as I say, not as I do. Must suk to be him.
The Scribe
12-31-2007, 16:06
I'm afraid with the winter we have had so far, there will probably be a lot more. We have had more snow and cold already this winter than we had all or most of last year. It's easy to know it isn't safe when the ground is brown and there is open water.
I never realized that pond wasn't open to ice-fishing before now. Never knew there was such a thing. I'm not an over the top ice fisherman. If I want to catch some ice, it's much easier to open the freexer door. :D
I wonder what their reasoning is for opening it up?
Sound like the warden will be OK. Was close to shore.
the scribe: I never realized that pond wasn't open to ice-fishing before now. Never knew there was such a thing.Many ponds and some lakes are closed to ice fishing, Pierce Pond on the AT for example is closed to ice fishing. Most of the FFO (fly fishing only) ponds and lakes are closed to ice fishing. It's a protect the fishery measure, mostly for Brook Trout and Landlocked Salmon.
They go on the news and cry and moan for people to be careful.
Then they promptly go out and drop thru the ice.
Damn fool is lucky to be alive.
Suprised they didn't find some short lobsters on him.
Pleasant pond was one of my favorite stops on the Trail in Maine. Nice swimming right by the shelter.
I don't have any problem with ice fishing, it's just that many ice fishermen use snowmobiles, and those things are noisy and smelly. Probably not much of a nuisance to the wildlife, but folks living around the pond have to put up with the presence of the machinery. That's probably not what they bought the land for......:rolleyes:
Lone Wolf
01-01-2008, 09:32
Pleasant pond was one of my favorite stops on the Trail in Maine. Nice swimming right by the shelter.
I don't have any problem with ice fishing, it's just that many ice fishermen use snowmobiles, and those things are noisy and smelly. Probably not much of a nuisance to the wildlife, but folks living around the pond have to put up with the presence of the machinery. That's probably not what they bought the land for......:rolleyes:
flatlanders should stay out of maine then. snowmobiles are a part of life in the north country
4 stroke would be appreciated. At least by me.
flatlanders should stay out of maine then. snowmobiles are a part of life in the north country
That's right. I'm from northern Michigan, and if residents didn't own snowmobiles, it could be the difference between getting to the grocery store or being completely snowed in. I know snowmobilers saved our butts a couple of times when our car got stuck in snow. They got us and our luggage to our cottage, otherwise, it might have been bad news for us.
Coming from the north country, the whine of a snowmobile sounds just as good to me as the pecking of a woodpecker. It's also just as natural for me to hear motorcycles, boats and chainsaws in the woods as to hear birds singing. When you grow up in the woods, these sounds are natural to hear.
We had an ice fishing shanty. It was painted shocking pink. I used to love to ice fish. Every winter, someone would land their plane on our lake, visit their friends, and then take off. People would race motorcycles and snowmobiles down the lake and the noise never once bothered me.
My boyfriend and I were looking for a place to park in the woods one time, and he accidently drove his 1964 Impala out onto a neighboring lake. Yup, it was right before Xmas and the front tires broke through the ice. The sound of a lake cracking from one side to the other is awesome! Very similar to the sound of thunder rolling over the mountains. We managed to get out of the car and tiptoe back to shore, but the car didn't make it.
You ought to try being on skates, or tending tip-ups, when that ice cracks between your feet.
I still vote for quieter. Less stink.
Lone Wolf
01-01-2008, 10:58
you must not be a native maineah
Although ice fishing on Pleaseant pond might be new, I doubt snowmobiles are.
I can't think of any ponds or lakes or rivers where snowmobiles are prohibited
but there probably are a few.
BTW, I run a 2 stroke, If you don't like it, you are welcome to buy me a 4 stroke.
well I will weigh in on this. Maine is plenty big enough for those who love to snowmobile and those who don't. A few pristine places should be kept out of bounds to snowmobiles so that those of us that like to breath clean air, enjoy natural silence, and not put up with the stink can have our areas.
Have any of you guys ever driven to the parking lot near Zealand Pond Campground in winter? That is snowmobile heaven and it is absolute hell for folks like me who like the quiet. Fortunately, a six mile hike to Zealand Falls hut leaves those crazies behind!
As for the falling through the ice..well.. many snowmobilers quite simply are idiots. That is why there are accidents ever year. They try to rev the thing and skim water or thin ice. Unless it has been under 20 degrees for many weeks consistently I would not set foot on the ice never mind going on with a snowmobile weighing hundreds of pounds.
DavidNH.
Lone Wolf
01-01-2008, 11:11
.. many snowmobilers quite simply are idiots.
same can be said for lots of hikers
My 2 stroke sled smells better running than a hiker who hasn't bathed for days!
Have any of you guys ever driven to the parking lot near Zealand Pond Campground in winter?
Yep.
That is snowmobile heaven and it is absolute hell for folks like me who like the quiet.
I quite agree. Seems such a shame. One of the most beautiful thing about the woods in winter is the absolute quiet. Snowmobiles and jet-skis (their summertime equivalent) annoy the heck out of me.
That is snowmobile heaven and it is absolute hell for folks like me who like the quiet. Fortunately, a six mile hike to Zealand Falls hut leaves those crazies behind!
Aren't snowmobiles for people who are afraid to hike in the woods in the winter?
Lone Wolf
01-01-2008, 11:36
Aren't snowmobiles for people who are afraid to hike in the woods in the winter?
i guess you've never been to northern vermont in the winter or ridden a snowmobile
No, I haven't. Is it a getting into the woods quick thing, or is it just for fun and excitement? I should probably get up there and ride one sometime :)
Lone Wolf
01-01-2008, 11:38
No, I haven't. Is it a getting into the woods quick thing, or is it just for fun and excitement? I should probably get up there and ride one sometime :)
lotsa fun
Do they rent them?
I was just wondering why people said it got loud in areas, I take it that they ride en masse in certain places, like lakes that are just packed with boats that you can't really enjoy the beauty without the hum or smell of an engine.
My 2 stroke sled smells better running than a hiker who hasn't bathed for days!
I've never been downwind of your sled, but, even if you don't use low-smoke oil, I'm sure I'd agree.:eek:
I've been using low-smoke oil in my mower and chain saw for a couple of years and it makes using both a more tolerable experience.
Quote:
Originally Posted by woodsy http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/wb_style/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=486937#post486937)
My 2 stroke sled smells better running than a hiker who hasn't bathed for days!
SOG: I've never been downwind of your sled, but, even if you don't use low-smoke oil, I'm sure I'd agree.:eek:
I've been using low-smoke oil in my mower and chain saw for a couple of years and it makes using both a more tolerable experience.OK my comment about stinky hikers was a bit antagonistic.
I should have said: My 2 stroke sled running smells better than some hikers i've met on the AT.
Now, snowmobiles have helped rescue many an injured hiker in winter from remote areas, quit complaining..you(winter hikers in the NE) might need one someday.
you must not be a native maineah
Quite naive.
Although ice fishing on Pleaseant pond might be new, I doubt snowmobiles are.
I can't think of any ponds or lakes or rivers where snowmobiles are prohibited
but there probably are a few.
BTW, I run a 2 stroke, If you don't like it, you are welcome to buy me a 4 stroke.
I don't like it, and I ain't buying you a 4.
My 2 stroke sled smells better running than a hiker who hasn't bathed for days!
You been breathing some fumes in the shed?
Do they rent them?
I was just wondering why people said it got loud in areas, I take it that they ride en masse in certain places, like lakes that are just packed with boats that you can't really enjoy the beauty without the hum or smell of an engine.
Yes. The two stroke engine runs at a higher RPM. Think chainsaw. With oil mixed with the gas. Think smelly cloud.
I like to walk on snowtraveller tracks. Most of them are very considerate, as if not more than XC skiers. I get out of the track, and most of them slow down a bit.
I like snowmobiles and chainsaws more than you might think, but they are noisy and loud.
Put yourself in the place of those who paid big bucks for a nice, quiet place in the woods. Maybe they use snowmobiles themselves. Maybe they don't. I can bet that when they want peace and quiet, they don't go out to the shed, pull out their sled and rev the heck out of it.
If someone can afford a nice spot on a lake in the woods and want it quiet, what is so WRONG about letting them have it. Do we really need to ice fish? Do we really need to use a snowmobile? Do we even really need to make a racket when camping at the shelter on "their" pond as hikers?
Do whatever you want to do as long as it doesn't physically hurt others. Just be considerate of others more than you are passionate and enthusiastic about your pursuits. In other words, "love your neighbor as yourself".
Be respectful and courteous. Who could argue with that?
Nevermind. :rolleyes:
No more....
http://www.worthing.gov.uk/A-ZofServices/ServicesN-Z/NoiseControl/image,7450,en.jpg
Lone Wolf
01-01-2008, 14:19
Put yourself in the place of those who paid big bucks for a nice, quiet place in the woods. Maybe they use snowmobiles themselves. Maybe they don't. I can bet that when they want peace and quiet, they don't go out to the shed, pull out their sled and rev the heck out of it.
If someone can afford a nice spot on a lake in the woods and want it quiet, what is so WRONG about letting them have it. Do we really need to ice fish? Do we really need to use a snowmobile? Do we even really need to make a racket when camping at the shelter on "their" pond as hikers?
Do whatever you want to do as long as it doesn't physically hurt others. Just be considerate of others more than you are passionate and enthusiastic about your pursuits. In other words, "love your neighbor as yourself".
Be respectful and courteous. Who could argue with that?
Nevermind. :rolleyes:
go to alaska
As I said, nevermind. :rolleyes:
I should have said: My 2 stroke sled running smells better than some hikers i've met on the AT.
Probably so, but I agreed with you before you said some and even if you don't use low-smoke oil.
Some hikers are barely tolerable. Roll down the windows, all of them, now, please!:eek: ;) :D
I'm not a snowmobiler, but I once borrowed a machine and went with a group of zealots. We zipped across a lake and into the woods and after a bit we landed on top of a low mountain in west central Maine. It was incredibly beautiful up there. Mount Washington and the Presidentials loomed on the horizon, probably 30 air miles away. To the northwest were range after range of snow covered peaks -- the winter glory of Maine at its finest..
Sadly the snowmobilers didn't seem to notice. They stood around for a few minutes discussing the performance of the various machines and which sparkplugs worked best. Then headed down with a roar.
Weary
Figures a thread on a snowmobile going through ice on Pleasant Pond in Carratunk with game warden on it would turn into a anti-snowmobile fiasco.
Lone Wolf
01-01-2008, 19:27
Figures a thread on a snowmobile going through ice on Pleasant Pond in Carratunk with game warden on it would turn into a anti-snowmobile fiasco.
started by flatlanders from away with vacation property :rolleyes: and berkinstock wearin, granola eatin' natives
No, I haven't. Is it a getting into the woods quick thing, or is it just for fun and excitement? I should probably get up there and ride one sometime :)
Snowmobiling is a BLAST!! There's nothin wrong with the sound or the smell. Don't knock em till you try em. The only thing I'd hate if a snowmobile came by while I was hiking is that they didn't take me for a ride!!
Go Lilred! You tell em girl. BTW, you can ride on my 2 up sled anytime.
Put yourself in the place of those who paid big bucks for a nice, quiet place in the woods. Maybe they use snowmobiles themselves. Maybe they don't. I can bet that when they want peace and quiet, they don't go out to the shed, pull out their sled and rev the heck out of it.
If someone can afford a nice spot on a lake in the woods and want it quiet, what is so WRONG about letting them have it. Do we really need to ice fish? Do we really need to use a snowmobile? Do we even really need to make a racket when camping at the shelter on "their" pond as hikers?
Do whatever you want to do as long as it doesn't physically hurt others. Just be considerate of others more than you are passionate and enthusiastic about your pursuits. In other words, "love your neighbor as yourself".
Be respectful and courteous. Who could argue with that?
Nevermind. :rolleyes:
I got some news for you. I grew up on a lake and every person that lived up there or weekended up there had a bivy of snowmobiles, motorcycles and everyone on the lake had at least one boat, if not two or three. We had two boats, two motorcycles and a snowmobile. What is the point of being able to afford a place on a lake, and not using it to it's fullest enjoyment? The lake was littered with ice shanties in the winter, nearly everyone had one.
And when we wanted peace and quiet, ya, we went out to the shed,revved up our snowmobile, and took it into the middle of the woods, where we enjoyed the peace and quiet. Man, I miss the north country tonight!
Go Lilred! You tell em girl. BTW, you can ride on my 2 up sled anytime.
Thanks Woodsy!! :D I haven't been on a snowmobile since 1975. That's what I get for moving to Florida :(
Lone Wolf
01-01-2008, 19:46
Man, I miss the north country tonight!
me too. folks around here are freakin' out cuz we might get 6 inches of snow tonight :eek: where i was livin' has 4 foot in the woods. i can hear the snowmachines! i miss winter. haven't had one in the 6 years i've been living here
They even have snow shovels?
Now let's flog granola. I like oats.
walkin' wally
01-01-2008, 20:20
I just got back from Moosehead Lake north of Monson about an hour ago.There was 17 inches of ice on the lake in my area with about 10 inches of snow on top. About 30 inches of snow in the woods.
Pleasant Pond in Caratunk is spring fed and is very deep for it's size. I have been scuba diving in Pleasant Pond and it is crystal clear. It has a max. depth of 190 feet I believe. Deeper areas take longer to freeze because of upwelling. The colder water sinks and warmer water is forced to the surface. We are only talking a few degrees here.That and the springs do not make a good combination for thick ice.
We have been hearing a lot about the dangers of thin ice again this season from the state fish and wildlife folks. It is their standard C.Y.A. The warden should have taken a chisel out and checked the ice first. That is just common sense. They are not practicing what they preach. He should know his district's woods and waters. That is really what he is getting paid for.
I like snowmobiling and use mine for setting a track for cross country skiing. Those are two unlikely bed partners, solitude and noise. :) Deer will use the snowmobile trails to go from one cedar yard to another and so will the coyotes.
How much of Moosehead is skun(?) over?
What are rabbits like up that way? I have very few.
me too. folks around here are freakin' out cuz we might get 6 inches of snow tonight :eek: where i was livin' has 4 foot in the woods. i can hear the snowmachines! i miss winter. haven't had one in the 6 years i've been living here
I know what you mean. I haven't seen a real winter but once since 1980, and that was Xmas in NY about 5 years ago. We were snowed in for xmas day.
Here in TN., they will close schools for the next day if there is even a chance of snow. People flock to the grocery stores over flurries. It's crazy.
I'm not a snowmobiler, but I once borrowed a machine and went with a group of zealots. We zipped across a lake and into the woods and after a bit we landed on top of a low mountain in west central Maine. It was incredibly beautiful up there. Mount Washington and the Presidentials loomed on the horizon, probably 30 air miles away. To the northwest were range after range of snow covered peaks -- the winter glory of Maine at its finest..
Sadly the snowmobilers didn't seem to notice. They stood around for a few minutes discussing the performance of the various machines and which sparkplugs worked best. Then headed down with a roar.
Weary
Weary.. you seem to know how to say it succinctly like it is. snowmobiles and hikers really don't mix..not in any quanitity. personally.. I'd love to ban the damn things off the face of the earth. But what really saddens me is how those who whiz into the mountains and over the lakes and don't "see" or care about the beauty around them.
David
Weary.. you seem to know how to say it succinctly like it is. snowmobiles and hikers really don't mix..not in any quanitity. personally.. I'd love to ban the damn things off the face of the earth. But what really saddens me is how those who whiz into the mountains and over the lakes and don't "see" or care about the beauty around them.
Hmmm... to heck with their ignorance, that's not my problem. But the noise from their damned machines detracts greatly from my own enjoyment of the woods. It's purely selfish. What's more important? Their right to make noise, or my right to enjoy the woods in silence? Asking seriously.
Lone Wolf
01-02-2008, 00:46
But what really saddens me is how those who whiz into the mountains and over the lakes and don't "see" or care about the beauty around them.
kinda like a lot of thru-hikers
Weary.. you seem to know how to say it succinctly like it is. snowmobiles and hikers really don't mix..not in any quanitity. personally.. I'd love to ban the damn things off the face of the earth. But what really saddens me is how those who whiz into the mountains and over the lakes and don't "see" or care about the beauty around them.
David
You sure do make a sweeping generalization there. What makes you think people on snowmobiles don't see or care about the beauty? What a load of crap!
Hmmm... to heck with their ignorance, that's not my problem. But the noise from their damned machines detracts greatly from my own enjoyment of the woods. It's purely selfish. What's more important? Their right to make noise, or my right to enjoy the woods in silence? Asking seriously.
Seriously, everyone has a right to enjoy the outdoors in whatever recreational form they like. Snowmobiles, motorcycles, ATV's, whatever. And if someone doesn't like one form or another, well tough. Get over it. You say a person on a 'damned machine' detracts from your enjoyment, that they are being purely selfish? Isn't a hiker that insists everyone be quiet so they can enjoy the stillness of the woods being just as selfish?
Lone Wolf
01-02-2008, 01:32
Hmmm... to heck with their ignorance, that's not my problem. But the noise from their damned machines detracts greatly from my own enjoyment of the woods. It's purely selfish. What's more important? Their right to make noise, or my right to enjoy the woods in silence? Asking seriously.
yup. you're purely selfish to want the woods to yourself
Go Lilred! You tell em girl. BTW, you can ride on my 2 up sled anytime.
I love snowmobiling as well. I own three of them. Went out tonight for about two hours and had a ball. Woodsy, well have to hook up sometime since were so close.
I'd love to ban the damn things off the face of the earth. But what really saddens me is how those who whiz into the mountains and over the lakes and don't "see" or care about the beauty around them.
David
David you are absolutely right in some respects. There are some that spoil if for others. The ones that zip along with the throttle to the handle bars all the time thinking there in a race just do not realize what there missing. When I was younger I use to be that way and I still like to zip across the lakes and ponds though.
I would rather see the 4 wheels taken off the face of the earth then snowmobiles. At least with snowmobiles they do very little to no damage to the earth unlike 4 wheelers do. When the snow melts you barely know they were there.
There or some snowmobilers in the snowmobiling community just like there are some hikers in the hiking community that have to spoil it for others.
There are good hikers and bad hikers.
There are good snowmobilers and there are bad snowmobilers.
Seriously, everyone has a right to enjoy the outdoors in whatever recreational form they like. Snowmobiles, motorcycles, ATV's, whatever. And if someone doesn't like one form or another, well tough. Get over it. You say a person on a 'damned machine' detracts from your enjoyment, that they are being purely selfish? Isn't a hiker that insists everyone be quiet so they can enjoy the stillness of the woods being just as selfish?
Except for this: my hiking (and desire for silence as I do so) doesn't impose on anyone else. Whereas the snowmobilers are imposiing their noise on anybody within a two or three mile radius of their activity. The imposition is one-way.
Lone Wolf
01-02-2008, 10:27
can't you just hear the machines now in Baxter park, the most regulated place on the AT? i love the smell of 2 stroke in the morning... :D
Hmmm... to heck with their ignorance, that's not my problem. But the noise from their damned machines detracts greatly from my own enjoyment of the woods. It's purely selfish. What's more important? Their right to make noise, or my right to enjoy the woods in silence? Asking seriously.
You probably don't hike in winter .
Nobody complaining about airplanes yet?:D Are they acceptable noise?:-?
can't you just hear the machines now in Baxter park, the most regulated place on the AT? i love the smell of 2 stroke in the morning... :D
I hear that is a great ride, nice views, remote, etc.
I like the loop around Bigelow, about 50 miles total, nice views, Flagstaff Lake,
Stratton Hilton for lunch.
There are some grand places and sights you can see from a snowmobile that one would likely never see otherwise.;)
Maybe we can hook up sometime Rick, i'm going to get it registered soon.
Tipi Walter
01-02-2008, 10:59
You probably don't hike in winter you wuss so shut ta *** up:rolleyes:
Nobody complaining about airplanes yet?:D Are they acceptable noise?:-?
I've been complaining about airplanes for years, written screeds about manmade noise pollution from above, and from motorcycles whining constantly around the AT from Georgia to Virginia and beyond.
And Lilred, there are many places where people cannot enjoy the woods as they would like, wilderness areas for one. No snowmobiles there, thank god. The concept of wilderness is a natural environment free of man's intrusion. Obviously, such a place must be important, otherwise humans would never have designated such areas as wildernesses.
Most of this outdoor noise pollution is caused by people's addiction to oil, as Bush pointed out, and their fascination with speed and throttles. It is part of the Couch Potato generation, those nonhackers who want to see the outdoors but only when rolling, a pitiful bunch.
Like the Wheeled Tourists who invade the Smokies each year, their mantra being "let's-go-to-the-woods-but-don't-make-us-get-out", the lovers of snowmobiles and ATVs are in the same category. You'd think in this day and age of 310 million Americans driving 200 million cars on millions of miles of roads that such excess would be enough, but no, they feel they've got to take their motor-fantasies beyond the pavement and past the sprawl into what's left of the non-traffic world: the woods.
At least there are wilderness areas that are, so far, safe from the gas-addicted, noise-loving, throttle-griping multitude.
You probably don't hike in winter you wuss so shut ta *** up:rolleyes:
Yeah, that's why I come to Whiteblaze... for the congenial, enlightened discussions. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
http://www.terrapinphoto.com/mt_hayes_snow_scene.jpg
(AT, Mt. Hayes, early winter 1990.)
Lone Wolf
01-02-2008, 11:23
i can picture the snowmachine tracks...
i can picture the snowmachine tracks...
I'm sure Dino can Photoshop it. :D
dessertrat
01-02-2008, 12:03
flatlanders should stay out of maine then. snowmobiles are a part of life in the north country
That's just the problem in that area-- the summer residents versus the natives. This is always the way of the world. . . people who buy a summer home someplace nice, and then promptly set about making it just as miserable as the place they came from.
earlyriser26
01-02-2008, 12:43
Back in the mid-70's this was my section of the AT from Pleasant Pond to Joe's Hole. I'm sure it is not any more noisey now than it was then.
Yeah, that's why I come to Whiteblaze... for the congenial, enlightened discussions. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
http://www.terrapinphoto.com/mt_hayes_snow_scene.jpg
(AT, Mt. Hayes, early winter 1990.)
Is that your most recent winter trip?:rolleyes:
That's just the problem in that area-- the summer residents versus the natives. This is always the way of the world. . . people who buy a summer home someplace nice, and then promptly set about making it just as miserable as the place they came from.
Ain't that the truth, they even complain about farmers spreading manure on their croplands. They don't like the smell of organic fertilizer.:rolleyes:
I sthat your most recent winter trip?:rolleyes:
I hiked a section of the MA Mid-State trail (http://www.terrapinphoto.com/cpg143/thumbnails.php?album=9) almost exactly a year ago, but there was no snow on the ground. Without a hiking partner, my winter hiking is generally limited to day hikes closer to home.
Haha woodsy, love your signature. How do you reconcile that with your defense of snowmobiles in the woods?
Except for this: my hiking (and desire for silence as I do so) doesn't impose on anyone else. Whereas the snowmobilers are imposiing their noise on anybody within a two or three mile radius of their activity. The imposition is one-way.
No, you're right, it doesn't impose on anyone, until you insist that being quiet is the only way to be in the woods, which it sounds like you were advocating, since those 'damned machines' make so much noise. Maybe you need to go out for a nice five hour trip on a snowmobile with someone that knows what they are doing. It's quite a thrill!
You sure do make a sweeping generalization there. What makes you think people on snowmobiles don't see or care about the beauty? What a load of crap!
Lil red.. my comment about snowmobilers not caring about the beauty around them refers to Weary's comments about the snowmobilers he saw zip up a mountain and zip away without noticing the scenery much at all much less appreciate it.
I am sure there are snowmobilers who appreciate the scenic beauty around them. But I believe that in general a hiker who hikes in the silent woods has a greater appreciation for the serentity and the beauty of the scenery and the woods than the snowmobiler (high speeds, noise, fumes) does. I would speak similarly of the cylcist or hiker compared to the motor cyclist or ORV user. My comments are far from a load of crap (to use your words). Taken in the context they were made.. they are actually quite accurate.
We have designated wilderness in this country for a reason. some of us like it quite and like it wild and like cleaner air.
Hmm.. wasn't this thread supposed to be about the of snowmobilers skimming water or cruising over not fully frozen lakes? What they need is an education I think. at any rate, its a sad subject.. some die, and I don't know what a drown snowmobile does to a lake..but I suspect it isn't good.
David
ATTROLL: I would rather see the 4 wheels taken off the face of the earth then snowmobiles. At least with snowmobiles they do very little to no damage to the earth unlike 4 wheelers do. When the snow melts you barely know they were there.
Attroll, these are good points, easy to agree with :)
Everyone is selfish on the face of the earth, a moot point in this conversation though.
Just like some of the folks here don't like dogs in shelters, cigarette smoke, horses, trash burning in fire pits, people carrying weapons or musical instruments, it is certainly each for his own interests.
It would be nice if everyone thought of others when they participate in what they call fun or acceptable, but you just can not please everyone :)
No, you're right, it doesn't impose on anyone, until you insist that being quiet is the only way to be in the woods, which it sounds like you were advocating, since those 'damned machines' make so much noise. Maybe you need to go out for a nice five hour trip on a snowmobile with someone that knows what they are doing. It's quite a thrill!
I don't doubt it's fun. You're misssing the point.
There are plenty of opportunities in the good-old-USA to zoom around at high speeds on motorized vehicles. But true wilderness (as defined by places free of man-made noise and machines) is nearly gone.
Americans have this stooopid love of noisy machines. They've managed to integrate the damned internal combustion engine into every aspect of their lives. I can't wait for $10/gallon gasoline. Can't happen too soon.
Lone Wolf
01-02-2008, 13:15
I don't doubt it's fun. You're misssing the point.
There are plenty of opportunities in the good-old-USA to zoom around at high speeds on motorized vehicles. But true wilderness (as defined by places free of man-made noise and machines) is nearly gone.
Americans have this stooopid love of noisy machines. They've managed to integrate the damned internal combustion engine into every aspect of their lives. I can't wait for $10/gallon gasoline. Can't happen too soon.
you have a stooopid love for noisy music in the name of The Greatfully Dead
Tipi,
I think we are going to have to agree to disagree. What you consider noise pollution, the whine of a snowmobile, I consider music to my ears.
And yes, wilderness areas are great for hikers, no mechanical noises at all. Closed off to all machines. I've yet to find a place where snowmobiles can go that is closed off to hikers.....perhaps there are places out there, but I have never seen one.
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for the quiet and solitude of the woods, that's one of the many reasons I go out there. However, you won't see me get my panties in a wad if someone zips by me in a motorized vehicle. If anything, I'll pray they stop and offer me a quick ride. Then I'll continue on with my quiet hiking experience......
you have a stooopid love for noisy music in the name of The Greatfully Dead
But I've never imposed that on you or anyone else, LW.
(And I'm just as in love with Dvorak, Mozart, Mahler, Berlioz, Beethoven, et. al.)
I don't doubt it's fun. You're misssing the point.
There are plenty of opportunities in the good-old-USA to zoom around at high speeds on motorized vehicles. But true wilderness (as defined by places free of man-made noise and machines) is nearly gone.
Americans have this stooopid love of noisy machines. They've managed to integrate the damned internal combustion engine into every aspect of their lives. I can't wait for $10/gallon gasoline. Can't happen too soon.
Your use of adjectives is really starting to annoy me....;) :D There is nothing stoooopid about loving noisy fast machines. It's exhilarating, thrilling, adrenaline rushing fun. Hiking in the woods, sleeping on the ground, smelling worse than a skunk because you don't shower for a week, getting water out of the ground, many people would consider stooooopid too.
I can't wait till gas goes to $10 dollars a gallon too. Get rid of all those gas guzzling cars and free up the roads for snowmobiles. YA!!:D
Lone Wolf
01-02-2008, 13:30
Your use of adjectives is really starting to annoy me....;) :D There is nothing stoooopid about loving noisy fast machines. It's exhilarating, thrilling, adrenaline rushing fun. Hiking in the woods, sleeping on the ground, smelling worse than a skunk because you don't shower for a week, getting water out of the ground, many people would consider stooooopid too.
I can't wait till gas goes to $10 dollars a gallon too. Get rid of all those gas guzzling cars and free up the roads for snowmobiles. YA!!:D
you'll never convince the Birk wearin', tree huggin', citified lefty libs from Taxachusetts that snowmobiling is fun
There is nothing stoooopid about loving noisy fast machines. It's exhilarating, thrilling, adrenaline rushing fun.
If you need an internal combustion engine to get your adrenaline running... well, you have my sympathy...
If you need an internal combustion engine to get your adrenaline running... well, you have my sympathy...
LOL ok Terrapin, I'll take it, thanks. But I'm still having a blast out there when I can.
Haha woodsy, love your signature. How do you reconcile that with your defense of snowmobiles in the woods?
That signature refers to people like yourself who live in urbanville, far removed and out of touch with the natural world.
That signature refers to people like yourself who live in urbanville, far removed and out of touch with the natural world.
Right, and your snowmobile puts you "in touch" with it. :rolleyes:
Right, and your snowmobile puts you "in touch" with it. :rolleyes:
I won't try to explain it to you, you wouldn't understand.
BTW, your whine about this is worse than that of a 2 stroke, find another thread to whine on whydontya.
Attroll, these are good points, easy to agree with :)
Everyone is selfish on the face of the earth, a moot point in this conversation though.
Just like some of the folks here don't like dogs in shelters, cigarette smoke, horses, trash burning in fire pits, people carrying weapons or musical instruments, it is certainly each for his own interests.
It would be nice if everyone thought of others when they participate in what they call fun or acceptable, but you just can not please everyone :)
My sentiments excactly. Oh and don't forget the cell phones, leiki poles, water filters, drinking, etc. :)
can't you just hear the machines now in Baxter park, the most regulated place on the AT? i love the smell of 2 stroke in the morning... :D
Baxter rules restrict snowmobiles to the perimeter road, but the rules are selectively enforced. Some years ago I was threatened with jail because I took my three kids to the summit when the youngest was five-years-old.
One February a few years later I had just walked into Chimney Pond for two nights of winter camping when 20 snowmobilers roared into the camping area -- 15 miles from the nearest legal snowmobile trail.
After allowing them to spin around the pond a few times, the rangers politely told them they were breaking the rules and needed to leave.
Weary
max patch
01-02-2008, 16:33
I'm not going to pretend to know what the correct answer is re snowmobiles.
I do know that the one and only time I've been on one -- 20 years ago in Yellowstone on a ride to Old Faithful -- it was a lot of fun.
Like I said, I'm sure it's lots of fun. If the sound didn't carry for miles, I'd have no complaint. (Ignoring the fumes, which don't carry as far.) I like going fast on snow. I ski. ;)
Like I said, I'm sure it's lots of fun. If the sound didn't carry for miles, I'd have no complaint. (Ignoring the fumes, which don't carry as far.) I like going fast on snow. I ski. ;)
You must be a sailor. Don't mind my exhaust when I stinkpot past you. ;)
I'm not going to pretend to know what the correct answer is re snowmobiles.
I do know that the one and only time I've been on one -- 20 years ago in Yellowstone on a ride to Old Faithful -- it was a lot of fun.
And the answer is: snowmobilers have trails, just like hikers. To each their own.
You must be a sailor. Don't mind my exhaust when I stinkpot past you. ;)
Yep. A Hobie cat. Goes wicked fast (for a sailboat, that is.) The silly boat hasn't been in the water for the last couple of years. This last summer, hiking took precedence. I'm hoping to get back into it this summer. Here's a shot of some Hobies on Ellacoya Beach on Lake Winnipesaukee. Those mountains off in the distance are the Whites.
http://www.terrapinphoto.com/hobie_sunset2.jpg
Yep. A Hobie cat. Goes wicked fast (for a sailboat, that is.) The silly boat hasn't been in the water for the last couple of years. This last summer, hiking took precedence. I'm hoping to get back into it this summer. Here's a shot of some Hobies on Ellacoya Beach on Lake Winnipesaukee. Those mountains off in the distance are the Whites.
Nice! I have sailed some fast mono-hulls, but they are nothing like a Hobie. Actually, when I get on the water, I prefer to just putt along and not have to reach too far for the beer cooler.
walkin' wally
01-02-2008, 19:21
How much of Moosehead is skun(?) over?
What are rabbits like up that way? I have very few.
According to the locals the main body is still open. That is from Harford's Point north through Togue Alley. We went up at night and left during the day. It was snowing very hard when we left yesterday so we could not see down from Blair Hill.
In the Lily Bay area it seems there are more foxes and coyotes than rabbits lately. They will cycle up and down sooner or later. Lots of engorged ticks on the rabbits I saw this summer.
walkin' wally
01-02-2008, 19:27
That's just the problem in that area-- the summer residents versus the natives. This is always the way of the world. . . people who buy a summer home someplace nice, and then promptly set about making it just as miserable as the place they came from.
You nailed it. There is no peace for them. Post the land and complain about everything. More money than common sense.
Thanks. I miss rabbit tracks. I find them amusing.
Game warden and snowmobile fall through thin ice. (http://morningsentinel.mainetoday.com/news/local/4604608.html?com_full=1#begin)
Residents upset over opening pond to ice fishing.(everyone knows its the quickest way to kill a fishery)
Don't get me wrong, I respect wardens and the tough job they have, but they are constantly reminding us recently that the ice is not safe in many places. I think this is the first snowmobile through the ice this season. A case of do as I say, not as I do. Must suk to be him.
If I understand correctly, Woodsy lives near Pleasant pond and either doesn't mind or actually likes the presence of snowmobiles.
I have to say that the folks who live there should have the say, not me.
I think the issue was either over the overfishing of the pond, or the foolishness of the snowmobile operator
Snowmobiles for EVERYBODY!!!!
No, I'm not buying.:D
You nailed it. There is no peace for them. Post the land and complain about everything. More money than common sense.
I'm sure this same train of thought went through the brains of a few native Americans when the first Europeans arrived on the scene. ;)
walkin' wally
01-02-2008, 19:55
I'm sure this same train of thought went through the brains of a few native Americans when the first Europeans arrived on the scene. ;)
You're probably right. Such is progress.
You're probably right. Such is progress.
Yup 30 years ago when I was arguing that the tourists were moving in and we needed some land use laws to control development, I was told again and again, "don't worry. They can't hurt, because we still control the votes at town meeting."
Well, increasingly the newcomers have grown to the point where they control the town meeting. Sadly, few have taken the trouble to understand the town meeting system -- or the issues. One of the wonders of the American system is how we manage to survive uninterested voters.
Newcomers, by and large, seem to think that the three-member elected Board of Selectmen, actually a board of town managers, are the brilliant minds of the town. And only nuts and fools would argue against their recommendations.
The opposite is true. Only a fool would spend three hours once a week to sign for the payment of town bills. I know. I did it for 12 years.
Town meetings used to strike me as the wisest form of town government. Increasingly, I'm convinced it is the unwisest form. Town meetings used to be wise because those who showed up to make decisions tended to be much brighter than those willing to waste three hours a week doing make work that should take 15 minutes.
Those few are now overwhelmed by the multitudes that know nothing and understand nothing.
Weary
Yup 30 years ago when I was arguing that the tourists were moving in and we needed some land use laws to control development, I was told again and again, "don't worry. They can't hurt, because we still control the votes at town meeting."
Well, increasingly the newcomers have grown to the point where they control the town meeting. Sadly, few have taken the trouble to understand the town meeting system -- or the issues. One of the wonders of the American system is how we manage to survive uninterested voters.
Newcomers, by and large, seem to think that the three-member elected Board of Selectmen, actually a board of town managers, are the brilliant minds of the town. And only nuts and fools would argue against their recommendations.
The opposite is true. Only a fool would spend three hours once a week to sign for the payment of town bills. I know. I did it for 12 years.
Town meetings used to strike me as the wisest form of town government. Increasingly, I'm convinced it is the unwisest form. Town meetings used to be wise because those who showed up to make decisions tended to be much brighter than those willing to waste three hours a week doing make work that should take 15 minutes.
Those few are now overwhelmed by the multitudes that know nothing and understand nothing.
Weary
Sounds like the town I live in. Now the meetings are carried on a local cable channel and the nuttery has reached new levels of absurdity. The worst has to be the local paper, where the personal attacks are more important than the issues.
Sounds like the town I live in. Now the meetings are carried on a local cable channel and the nuttery has reached new levels of absurdity. The worst has to be the local paper, where the personal attacks are more important than the issues.
And now we've got really big trouble at Pleasant Pond... :rolleyes: :eek: :D :cool:
Let me put it this way:
If you don't like the sound or smell of snowmobiles, don't come to Maine.
With the amount of snow we've had so far this winter, it's snowmobile haven.
Like it or not, they are here to stay and are a big part of the winter economy here.....Lodging....Restaurants....Gear....Sled sales....etc.
Let me put it this way:
If you don't like the sound or smell of snowmobiles, don't come to Maine.
With the amount of snow we've had so far this winter, it's snowmobile haven.
Like it or not, they are here to stay and are a big part of the winter economy here.....Lodging....Restaurants....Gear....Sled sales....etc.
The first is an admonishment that I'm likely to ignore (I'm certain to be skiing at Sunday River sooner or later this season.) The rest of it is certainly true... "intuitively obvious" even.
Just cuz something's super popular, loads of fun and worth lots of $$$ -- doesn't mean I hafta like it. ;) I mean, the Grateful Dead were all of the above, and LW still hates 'em. :D
Lone Wolf
01-03-2008, 02:05
ski areas are extremely ungreen. HUGE amounts of electrical power are used to run them
Maybe we can hook up sometime Rick, i'm going to get it registered soon.
That would be great. I am going to do a ride Saturday if I don't have to work. I am thinking of putting my sled in at Newport and riding to Greenville for lunch and back. i don't know if you have ever done this ride but it is the old rail road bed. It is a very nice ride.
Well Mr Terrapin, Snowmobiles are a vital part of any ski areas operations.
Ski patrollers use them for transporting themselves, gear and injured skiers down off the mountain. Snowmakers use them to get around the mountain when making snow so that you can enjoy skiing. When buying a ski pass, you are enabling the use of those damned noisy, stinky machines. But i suppose you can justify their use in your pursuit of recreational activity, Although you are sounding a bit hypocritical:-?
That would be great. I am going to do a ride Saturday if I don't have to work. I am thinking of putting my sled in at Newport and riding to Greenville for lunch and back. i don't know if you have ever done this ride but it is the old rail road bed. It is a very nice ride.
Sounds like a nice ride Rick. I'll drop you a PM after the sled gets a good check ride. So far this year it hasn't been off the back 40.
Back in the early to mid 70's the state decided to experiment and introduced lake trout (aka togue) into pleasant pond.Prior to that the Lake was known for its spectacular brook trout fishing. Why the state did this , I don't know but since then the population of the brook trout has depleted and lake trout as big as 18 pounds have been pulled out of there. I think the state is trying to "redeem" itself and the pond by allowing the taking of togue and therefor reducing the population and giving the brook trout a fighting chance .So opening Pleasant Pond for that reason is not a bad idea as far as i am concerned but, a lot of people don't know that pond, and it is a very different pond when it comes to freezing over.It has somewhere around 96 springs feeding the lake and that makes it a lake that often has no ice on it on the day icefishing opens, and i don't think the warden was aware of this before he went out there,,,
Thanks for your informative post paxter. I suspected the opening of ice fishing on the pond was as you said, an attempt to lessen the Togue population.
Wouldn't be the first time one of their experiments went belly up.
Oh, welcome to Whiteblaze.!
warraghiyagey
01-03-2008, 13:29
Snowmobiles falling thorugh the ice in Maine?
Global warming?
:p
Ooops. . . sorry Woodsy.
:D :D
Well Mr Terrapin, Snowmobiles are a vital part of any ski areas operations. Ski patrollers use them for transporting themselves, gear and injured skiers down off the mountain. Snowmakers use them to get around the mountain when making snow so that you can enjoy skiing. When buying a ski pass, you are enabling the use of those damned noisy, stinky machines. But i suppose you can justify their use in your pursit of recreational activity, Although you are sounding a bit hypocritical:-?
Yes, I'm aware of the nature of modern ski areas. FWIW, I've been a ski patroller (NSPS, in upstate New York), and our training did not involve snowmobiles at all. We were trained to take the toboggan down the steepest slopes, with one patroller in front and another patroller behind the toboggan. Snowmobiles are now part of "the scene" due to their obvious utility, mostly for the lift crews and snowmaking crews. But "the scene" existed without them for quite some time. ;)
Snowmobiles falling thorugh the ice in Maine?
Global warming?
:p
Ooops. . . sorry Woodsy.
:D :D
Where you been? On a safari?:D
Global warming? The mercury is having trouble getting above 0* today:rolleyes:
and the sun is shining bright:)
You wait, gotta throw another log on.
warraghiyagey
01-03-2008, 14:52
Where you been? On a safari?:D
Global warming? The mercury is having trouble getting above 0* today:rolleyes:
and the sun is shining bright:)
You wait, gotta throw another log on.
My computer has been being stupid. Fortunately I'm still smart.:rolleyes:
Aaanywhoo, I'm leaving Katahdin May 31ish and probably will be at PPond area by 15th. Still looking to get a hike in this winter or spring. And maybe some unauthorized trail maintenance. You in??
Maybe even Pleasant Pond are (back on topic) . . .oops, again.;)
warraghiyagey
01-03-2008, 14:56
Have a great hike :)
Me??:) Thanks. Are you on the trail this year??:)
Yes, I hope you have a great hike in May!
I may not be on this thread again so, why wait to tell you :)
ferryman
01-04-2008, 20:35
I recently put down my objections to snowmobiles and snowmobilers and bought a Ski Doo Skandic. This floating machine goes off trail in the current three feet of snow with no problem, getting me farther back into the million acres plus right here in my back yard. Snowmobiles are the economic lifeblood for folks who live here in The Forks and other places in Maine. This combustible machine allows me to work my back woodlot, groom trails for the local snowmobile club, and pack camping gear on board for a wilderness experience far from the maddening crowd. At some point in the future, the possibility of leading tours around this area, providing rescue operations to missing or injured riders or just getting so far back into the "wilderness", I may decide to never come out. Just because driving a two cycle puts me in a motorized category doesn't mean I still cannot put on my telemarking skiis with skins and backpack and head into the great unknown. Out of sight. For a comment of the topic at hand, Warden Scott Thrasher went thru the ice near shore and got wet up to his waist. He was with another Warden checking the thickness around Pleasant Pond (about three miles from my place) due to the Jan 1st opening of ice fishing and the urgent need to bring down the population of Lake Trout that are consuming the native brook trout and landlocked salmon. Folks have landed many "brown trout" in the over 20 lb range during the summer fishing season. There has not been a ice fishing season on Pleasant Pond for many, many years. Let's give the Maine Game Wardens a break, after all, they are the ones who pull lost or injured hikers off the trail here in the Maine Woods. Yours, Thunder Rebel
(AT Troll, ya gutta change that ferryman thing cause I ain't no more!)
I recently put down my objections to snowmobiles and snowmobilers and bought a Ski Doo Skandic. This floating machine goes off trail in the current three feet of snow with no problem, getting me farther back into the million acres plus right here in my back yard. Snowmobiles are the economic lifeblood for folks who live here in The Forks and other places in Maine. This combustible machine allows me to work my back woodlot, groom trails for the local snowmobile club, and pack camping gear on board for a wilderness experience far from the maddening crowd. At some point in the future, the possibility of leading tours around this area, providing rescue operations to missing or injured riders or just getting so far back into the "wilderness", I may decide to never come out. Just because driving a two cycle puts me in a motorized category doesn't mean I still cannot put on my telemarking skiis with skins and backpack and head into the great unknown. Out of sight. For a comment of the topic at hand, Warden Scott Thrasher went thru the ice near shore and got wet up to his waist. He was with another Warden checking the thickness around Pleasant Pond (about three miles from my place) due to the Jan 1st opening of ice fishing and the urgent need to bring down the population of Lake Trout that are consuming the native brook trout and landlocked salmon. Folks have landed many "brown trout" in the over 20 lb range during the summer fishing season. There has not been a ice fishing season on Pleasant Pond for many, many years. Let's give the Maine Game Wardens a break, after all, they are the ones who pull lost or injured hikers off the trail here in the Maine Woods. Yours, Thunder Rebel
(AT Troll, ya gutta change that ferryman thing cause I ain't no more!)
GO Ferryman!
Regarding a new name, how about "Ferryman Emeritus"? :cool:
Lone Wolf
01-05-2008, 08:22
what about him?
what about steve??
Dunpadlinu.