View Full Version : New Hampshire, Lonesome Lake to Carter Notch
snowskier13
01-02-2008, 07:46
I am planning on a week long trip in the White Mountains with my 11yo daughter. Dates would be 7/1-7/7 for about 50 miles is my goal. I was wondering what you all thought of the section between Lonesome Lake Hut and Carter Notch. My wife will be hanging around the various towns as we progress. I need to get an idea of the towns surrounding this area. Thanks in advance.
climbabout
01-02-2008, 08:55
It's a pretty rugged section - I've hiked through the White Mountains quite a bit. Definitely pick up the AMC guide to the white mountains and the maps that come with it - it will be an invaluable resource. There are lots of exposed sections above treeline and the weather can be quite a factor any month of the year. While you'll get many differing opinions on this - the AMC hut system(while somewhat expensive) can be a good way to cover a lot of distance without carrying a lot of gear. If you are looking for less crowds and human contact then it's not the way to go. North Conway and the surrounding towns are a nice spot if your wife likes outlet shopping. The Lincoln/Franconia Notch area is also very picturesque. The drive on route 302 through Crawford notch is very scenic as well. Also the drive on route 112(Kancamangus highway or "Kanc" as the locals call it) should be on her list of things to do.
Good Luck
Tim
sixhusbands
01-02-2008, 09:33
My daughter and I have been hiking together every summer for the past 20 years and it never gets old. I cant think of a better way to spend quality time with her than enjoying the simple life of hiking in the beauty of the outdoors.
The Whites are my favorite part of the AT. particularly the section over Wildcat with it's spectacular views from the ledges! The trails are very well maintained and they will challenge you and your daughter. It looks like you have allowed planty of time to make the distance, so you will be able to take in the majesty of the mountains. Water might be a problem on the exposed ridges, so plan to have an extra carrier along. Gorham to the north is a great trail town, so is Lincoln to the south. The towns along Rt 16 get real crowded ( great for shopping), so allow extra time for driving.
If your lucky , there might be some snow leftover in Tuckermans ravine.
Have a great trip!
The towns are... Lincoln/Woodstock, Conway/North Conway, and Gorham, pretty much. Opportunities for "town access" are limited. Rte. 93, then Rte. 302, then Rte. 16. At least two or three days of tough hiking between each road crossing.
There are clusters of businesses (motels/restaurants/convenience stores/gas stations, etc.) where 302 and 2 meet (near Mt. Twin) and where 302 and 16 meet. 302 is the road that goes thru Crawford notch.
You might as well continue on (past Carter) along the ridge and leave the trail at Rte. 2, a few miles east of Gorham. The ridge walk is fairly easy once you're past the Carters, and the views are fine.
If you're looking for section where you can meet the wife every night, consider the AT section between Grafton Notch and Maine Highway 17 -- with Andover, Maine as the central point.
I just did this section in September, and here are a few thoughts:
First, Lonesome Lake to Carter Notch is 62 miles or so, not 50. And it's a rugged and difficult 62. If you're going to do this in 7 days, you'll have to make about 10 miles a day--which is a lot if you're coming straight from off the trail. I have no idea how your 11-year-old will handle that, but you should think about it.
Why start at Lonesome Lake? That's not easily acessible from the road. It's probably easier to start at Franconia Notch. I found the section from Pinkham Notch to Carter Notch kind of annoying--very steep ups and downs, and the views are not nearly as impressive as you get in the Presidentials and the Franconia Ridge sections. You might think about shaving off a few miles and stopping at Pinkham Notch instead.
However you do it, you'll have a great time--it's some of the best hiking anywhere.
Pedaling Fool
01-02-2008, 12:48
I just did this section in September, and here are a few thoughts:
First, Lonesome Lake to Carter Notch is 62 miles or so, not 50. And it's a rugged and difficult 62. If you're going to do this in 7 days, you'll have to make about 10 miles a day--which is a lot if you're coming straight from off the trail. I have no idea how your 11-year-old will handle that, but you should think about it.
Why start at Lonesome Lake? That's not easily acessible from the road. It's probably easier to start at Franconia Notch. I found the section from Pinkham Notch to Carter Notch kind of annoying--very steep ups and downs, and the views are not nearly as impressive as you get in the Presidentials and the Franconia Ridge sections. You might think about shaving off a few miles and stopping at Pinkham Notch instead.
However you do it, you'll have a great time--it's some of the best hiking anywhere.
I agree, seems a little bit for an 11 y/o, but with a little tweaking in your plans this would be a great hike with great views. Maine is probably the prettiest state (on average), but NH (The Whites) has the single most spectacular views. View from Mt. Washington: http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=13700&original=1&c=member&imageuser=6936 (http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=13700&original=1&c=member&imageuser=6936)
snowskier13
01-02-2008, 14:06
just grabbed a section on the trip computer. I ordered the map 740 from Nat Geo. I have 741 already. I need my wife to drop us off as close to the trail as possible. I am thinking the huts are the way to go. I don't mind paying the fees. I am thinking 5-8 miles 10 max / day. So Franconian is a good place to start?
just grabbed a section on the trip computer. I ordered the map 740 from Nat Geo. I have 741 already. I need my wife to drop us off as close to the trail as possible. I am thinking the huts are the way to go. I don't mind paying the fees. I am thinking 5-8 miles 10 max / day. So Franconian is a good place to start?
Franconia makes sense logistically. Some people might call this heresy, but i'd recommend taking the Old Bridle Path up to Greenleaf Hut rather than the AT up Franconia Ridge. The climb out of rt93 IMO was one of the toughest, steepest climbs on the whole trail. That one really stuck out for me. Then again the top of the ridge on Liberty, Haystack, Franconia is fabulous, though crowded.
When I did this section with my family (prior to my thru hike) we hiked the Old Bridle Trail, a gradual nice 3 mile hike and stayed at Greenleaf hut. From there, you have a mile hike up to Lafyette, a great peak with fabulous views. You have a somewhat difficult 7-8 miles to Galehead, my favorite hut. You could then stay at: Zealand, Mizpah, Lake of the Clouds and Madison, ending at Rt 16, Pinkham Notch. This would be a great week hike, giving your daughter a great intro to backcountry hiking. I loved the huts as a teen.
Just be sure to bring some ear plugs for the huts!
Lone Wolf
01-02-2008, 14:24
Or take the Falling Waters trail out of Franconia Notch up to the ridge
Franconia makes sense logistically. Some people might call this heresy, but i'd recommend taking the Old Bridle Path up to Greenleaf Hut rather than the AT up Franconia Ridge. The climb out of rt93 IMO was one of the toughest, steepest climbs on the whole trail. That one really stuck out for me. Then again the top of the ridge on Liberty, Haystack, Franconia is fabulous, though crowded.
Oddly enough, I thought the climb up from Franconia wasn't bad at all. And this was literally the first 3 miles of my section this year, so I was coming straight from off the trail. Missing out on the Franconia Ridge would be a shame.
The one that really got me was the climb up from Crawford Notch. Is there any easier alternative to the AT ? I was dying on the way up there, though maybe it was because I'd just resupplied. Luckily, the views from the Webster Cliffs made it worth the suffering.
You have a somewhat difficult 7-8 miles to Galehead, my favorite hut. You could then stay at: Zealand, Mizpah, Lake of the Clouds and Madison, ending at Rt 16, Pinkham Notch. This would be a great week hike, giving your daughter a great intro to backcountry hiking. I loved the huts as a teen.
This would make a pretty reasonable itinerary: Day 1- Greenleaf. Day 2 - Galehead. Day 3 - Zealand. Day 4 - Mizpah. Day 5 - Lake of the Clouds (or all the way to Madison if you're feeling good). Day 6 - Madison. Day 7 - Pinkham.
What backpacking experience does your daughter have? Assuming this is a first time experience, a hut to hut trip makes sense. It's a popular trek with families. Park your car at Pinkham, and then take the shuttle to Franconia Notch.
Enjoy!
snowskier13
01-08-2008, 06:59
She has camped with me a few times. This will be the biggest trip yet. I am really leaning towards the hut hops. I will bring the new MSR tent but think a hot shower is nice at night. I have the map but isn't there a guide that covers the Whites?
neighbor dave
01-08-2008, 07:23
no showers at the huts. you can cleanup on rte 302 either at the private campground to the south or the highbrow center to the north if you're looking to freshen up
I have the map but isn't there a guide that covers the Whites?
Yes. Check out www.outdoors.org
Also, please remember that the Huts are by reservation, so you will want to check out the availability at that website well in advance.
I have the map but isn't there a guide that covers the Whites?
Yes. Check out www.outdoors.org
Also, please remember that the Huts are by reservation, so you will want to check out the availability at that website well in advance-- especially for the popular dates you are looking for.
I section hiked from New Hanover to Gorham in June (11 days). I have already done from Springer to Duncannon so have experienced alot of the trail. New Hampshire was a shock to me. I am used to 13-25 mile days. 10 miles over Franconia Ridge was equivalent to a hard 20 mile day down south. Don't under estimate the difficulty of this section. Particularly for an 11 year old. The huts were great. After this trip I totally rethought my milage through Maine when I get to go. I understand Maine is more of the same steep climbs. Just make sure you have time to enjoy yourself along the way. I thought I had planned a moderately difficult trip but was exhausted when I reached Gorham. But it will have to go down as the most beautiful section of trail I have been on so far. One mile an hour is a reaonable pace in many of these sections even on the descents due to the steepness. Go an have fun but plan wisely.
Kerosene
01-09-2008, 09:06
I understand Maine is more of the same steep climbs.It's not the climbs that slow things down (at least for me), but the incredibly rough trailbed that keeps you from keeping any sort of consistent stride. It can be mentally as well as physically tiring to watch how and where you plant each foot.
The AMC huts are spaced about a day's walk apart. They are popular among people with let's say, limited backpacking experience and families. Should you go, your daughter will probably make friends with others doing the same thing. Reservations are a must in the busy summer season. And it allows you to pack light: almost clothing and lunch only. No tent, cooking gear, fuel, etc.
I will echo what some have probably already said.
You hope to/plan to hike from Lonesome Lake to Gorham. That is one gorgeous section of trail. It is also very very rugged and I would think a lot for an 11 year old. Very very limited town access and then only via hitching or getting a ride. Trail goes no where near a town. But you do you have the option of overnights at the highland center and Pinkham Notch Camp (joe dodge lodge). There you can get comfy accomadations, showers, and great food.
You will go past all of the AMC huts. This makes food logistics easy. But plan to reserve early (at least a month in advance and now might even be a good idea) and be prepared to shell out. I think prices are near 90 per night per person. Otherwise camp sites have care takers and are 8 dollars per person per night.
The weather on this section of trail is famous for its variablity. Winter clothing probably should be carried above tree line even in July and August.
I have been on Mt Washington in mid summer when windchills were in the teens!
DavidNH
snowskier13
01-12-2008, 21:07
Wow $90/night/ person. I didn't realize the huts were that much. I think we will utilize the MSRF Hubba Hubba and Reactor stove Santa brought. Can we get a hot meal at the huts without having to spend the $90/night? I wouldn't mind a hot meal for dinner. My daughter is actually looking forward to using her sleeping bag and pack. This is looking like the itinerary. Day 1- Greenleaf. Day 2 - Galehead. Day 3 - Zealand. Day 4 - Mizpah. Day 5 - Lake of the Clouds (or all the way to Madison if you're feeling good). Day 6 - Madison. Day 7 - Pinkham. (Than k you Burger ) If we decide to cut it short by a day or two how hard logistically would it be to call my wife to come get us somewhere?
wtmntcaretaker
01-12-2008, 21:29
you can usually get a bowl of soup and cookies for lunch but not dinner. try and utilize the shelters and camp sites insted of the huts. you might want to do an alternative itinerary than the AT route. there are a lot of really nice places in the whites that are arguably prettier than the AT route.
wtmntcaretaker
01-12-2008, 21:32
it is a realy nice week you are planning. the shelters are $8 per person per night. maybe more affordable. :)
snowskier13
01-13-2008, 07:02
you might want to do an alternative itinerary than the AT route. there are a lot of really nice places in the whites that are arguably prettier than the AT route.
Any suggestions Caretaker? The length of the trip is dynamic as wife wants to hit NYC on the way up. On the back side of the trip is Mt Washington Cog Railway, the museum, Olympic museum at Lake Placid, Canadian side of Niagara Falls then deposit daughter at camp for 1 month.
snowskier13
01-13-2008, 13:56
Here is one of the tools I have been trying to use http://www.thebackpacker.com/trails/at.php but can't figure out where these: Day 1- Greenleaf. Day 2 - Galehead. Day 3 - Zealand. Day 4 - Mizpah. Day 5 - Lake of the Clouds (or all the way to Madison if you're feeling good). Day 6 - Madison. Day 7 - Pinkham.
If you time it right you can usually get the leftovers from breakfast or lunch at any of the huts. There always seem to be leftovers, and the food's pretty good too. Awesome bread.
My daughter is actually looking forward to using her sleeping bag and pack.
Even when staying at the huts, she will probably want to have them.
Huts don't serve lunch so you will want to carry some food, and you will not only need rain gear but also something warm to wear. It gets cold above tree line even in July.
Plus the the bedding at the huts is just a bunk mattress and a wool blanket.
She will most definitely appreciate having her own sleeping bag.
the_iceman
01-13-2008, 18:05
Oddly enough, I thought the climb up from Franconia wasn't bad at all. And this was literally the first 3 miles of my section this year, so I was coming straight from off the trail. Missing out on the Franconia Ridge would be a shame.
The one that really got me was the climb up from Crawford Notch. Is there any easier alternative to the AT ? I was dying on the way up there, though maybe it was because I'd just resupplied. Luckily, the views from the Webster Cliffs made it worth the suffering.
This would make a pretty reasonable itinerary: Day 1- Greenleaf. Day 2 - Galehead. Day 3 - Zealand. Day 4 - Mizpah. Day 5 - Lake of the Clouds (or all the way to Madison if you're feeling good). Day 6 - Madison. Day 7 - Pinkham.
I did not think Franconia was bad.
Look at taking the AtoZ trail (or is it ABC) from Zealand over to the Crawford Path to miss Webster cliffs on your way to Mizpah. Just ask the caretaker at Zealand that is the route they use. I left Zealnd early and the Zealand caretaker was at Mizpah visiting when I got there and I was hauling-a.
I did not think Franconia was bad.
Look at taking the AtoZ trail (or is it ABC) from Zealand over to the Crawford Path to miss Webster cliffs on your way to Mizpah. Just ask the caretaker at Zealand that is the route they use. I left Zealnd early and the Zealand caretaker was at Mizpah visiting when I got there and I was hauling-a.
Yes. I did this with my family and it's infinitely easier and much shorter than the AT/Webster Cliffs
Mr. Clean
01-14-2008, 07:47
Yes. I did this with my family and it's infinitely easier and much shorter than the AT/Webster Cliffs
And you still come out onto Mt. Webster.
There are campsites and shelters all along the trail if you don't want to stay at a hut. The only stretch there isn't is between Nauman campsite near Mitzpah hut and Osgood campsite below Madison hut, unless you want to hike downhill a half mile off the AT. For this stretch you may want to stay at either Lake of the Crowds, err Clouds, or Madison. Or both. All depends on what you want. By the way, downhill and north of Mt. Adams are several cabins/shelters/campsites to choose from run by the RMC (Randolph Mtn Club). They have a web site. And I'd second, or third, getting the AMC maps and guide book. This will eliminate any questions you may have. I bet you could get a cheap set on amazon or ebay that is a few years old. This would be the White Mtn Guide.
snowskier13
01-14-2008, 21:45
Speaking of maps the National Geographic map came today. I am investigating the AMC maps as well as the WM Guide. As far as scale goes is it better to have bigger or smaller. My Nat Geo maps are 1:63,360 the AMC maps are 1: 95,000. I would think the 1:63,360 would show more detail?
Also do all of the huts have simple primitive campsites around them as well?
Speaking of maps the National Geographic map came today. I am investigating the AMC maps as well as the WM Guide. As far as scale goes is it better to have bigger or smaller. My Nat Geo maps are 1:63,360 the AMC maps are 1: 95,000. I would think the 1:63,360 would show more detail?
Also do all of the huts have simple primitive campsites around them as well?No. Mispah has a couple tent pads, and Madison. Not LOC or Galehead. Or Greenleaf, if memory serves. You can find stealth spots downhill from Zealand where it gets flat. Not sure of rules around Lonesome Lake. I guess if you go west of the pond you can find a flat spot off the trail that goes to Lafayette Campground. Pretty popular trail, though.
The WM Guide should list where the tent pads are, and will also have camping rules. Hard to find a legal spot sometimes along the AT between Franconia Notch and Zealand road. Terrain is rocky, steep, and heavily treed.
If your hiking experience is mid-west or mid-Atlantic, it's hard to visualize the Whites without seeing them.
snowskier13
01-27-2008, 16:34
Ordered the new White Mountain Guide 28th edition and maps set. Amazon had both on sale for $36
Pokey2006
02-03-2008, 05:51
I know this thread's getting old, but I just have to point out that the Whites are NOT tough for an 11-year-old girl. She'll probably bounce right up the ridge and will have a blast! I remember literally running up Mt. Washington as an 8-year-old, while my folks, aunts and uncles were crying and complaining and whining. So don't worry about how she'll handle it -- worry about whether Dad can handle it.
That said, it's not an easy section of trail, so don't do it unless you know what you're doing. There are other sections of trail more appropriate for cutting your teeth on.