Hiker Missing on Blood Mountain

[Sly]

Along with prior convictions ranging from marijuana charges to theft - about 6 or 7 total I think I read. Sorry, no link or source, read it in one of the prior news reports. There are so many now it's hard to keep up.

Still, none are even close to what we're talking about now.

[Hooch]

I hope he's got an attorney. Looks like he's going to be needing one.

[ed bell]

wouldn't you cooperate with the cops? Especially if all you did was talk to someone on the trail, why wouldn't you try to help?


I have to agree, if he only walked/hiked/talked with her, then he has every motivation in the world to clear his name and tell everything he knows. I hate to convict someone in the media, but he's pretty much bringing it on himself. I know that the evidence they have right now, at least what they're releasing to the media, is purely cincumstantial right nowm but it doesn't look good for him at all.
Holding a belief that someone is responsible for a crime is not what I call "convicting" them. The courts do that. Considering the info the LEO's have released, how could anyone not believe that GMH has something to do with Meredith's disappearance. This is different than accepting a role as a juror at a trial.

[Tin Man]

I believe, at this point, the only evidence against this guy is that some witnesses saw him talking to her, right? Am I missing something? Is there any real evidence suggesting this guy actually committed a crime?

It appears he did have her stuff and was trying to lose it in a dumpster. I doubt the authorities are sharing everything they have on him at this point.

[rlharris]

I was finally able to get my computer to load the article from the ACJ. In the photo of Meridith and Emma, she is holding a certificate of some sort. When I click on "Enlarge", I get an error message. Does anyone have a copy of the enlarged image? Is she holding a CGC (Canine Good Citizen) certificate for Emma? Brad wants to know.

[Sly]

It appears he did have her stuff and was trying to lose it in a dumpster. I doubt the authorities are sharing everything they have on him at this point.

I know reading all the links and reports get confusing but IIRC the personal belongings were found in the dumpster near where they found the dog. That was on the way to where they found the POI. It would appear they could find atleast dog hair in the van and link him.

[KirkMcquest]

I just saw some info on cnn. There seems to be plenty to suggest this guy might be suspected. As I understand it
1) another couple is missing and this guys van was placed on the scene

2) a witness saw him with her and felt something was 'wrong', enough so that he reported it to the police ( and wrote down the guys license plate).

3) he was wearing a yellow coat, and the image at the atm was also wearing a yellow coat.

Is this right? can someone verify this for me?

[doggiebag]

Yeah, sure I would, but as it is now there's nothing to link these two crimes except the nature of the crime and a yellow rain jacket.

Was a similar white van seen in NC? They're pretty common too but would close the gap.

I guess my point is there's more than one sicko out there.
The thought of having 2 different killers preying on hikers in the trail system within 2 months of each other is mind boggling. My gut tells me it's the same guy. This is all IMHO of course.

[Just Jeff]

at this point they could likely charge him with obstruction of justice for failing to cooperate.

Fifth Amendment probably precludes that.

Re: not cooperating with the police, it says a little depending on the details. Personally, I'd cooperate enough to say I didn't do it and I'd answer their direct questions - but if they started accusing me or insinuating that I did something like this, I'd immediately stop talking and get a lawyer. Doesn't mean I'm guilty, just that I don't trust someone who is accusing me when I know he doesn't have the evidence to back it up.

[Frolicking Dinosaurs]

This is an on-going investigation -- until the LEOs release the info about the van and dumpsters we are speculating - and this isn't good. We will know the results soon.

[Lilred]

Just heard on the news, the feds are holding him now. Whatever the warrant was for, it was on federal land. he won't be leaving custody anytime soon.

[4eyedbuzzard]

I believe, at this point, the only evidence against this guy is that some witnesses saw him talking to her, right? Am I missing something? Is there any real evidence suggesting this guy actually committed a crime?

Without getting long winded, LE is currently gathering evidence relating to Merediths disappearance. No charges have been filed.

But I gotta say, if you don't find something HIGHLY suspicious about her personal belongings being found in a dumpster in close proximity to wear her dog shows up; on the same day the POI/last person seen with her is found cleaning and vacuuming his van which was placed at the scene of her disappearance - don't ever apply for a job as an investigator - or much of anything requiring putting 2 and 2 together.

[Tin Man]

I know reading all the links and reports get confusing but IIRC the personal belongings were found in the dumpster near where they found the dog. That was on the way to where they found the POI. It would appear they could find atleast dog hair in the van and link him.

Thanks for the clarification. The fact that that the dog, dumped belongings and POI were located in the same general area is certainly circumstantial and may be considered coincidental, but does help towards building a case. Personally, I don't believe in coincidences like this.

I assume they would need to do DNA analysis to link the dog to the van.

[TNjed]

yeah all that's right I think, I don't know if they placed his car in the parking lot in NC. I think this guy did both of these awful crimes.

[Lone Wolf]

Without getting long winded, LE is currently gathering evidence relating to Merediths disappearance. No charges have been filed.

But I gotta say, if you don't find something HIGHLY suspicious about her personal belongings being found in a dumpster in close proximity to wear her dog shows up; on the same day the POI/last person seen with her is found cleaning and vacuuming his van which was placed at the scene of her disappearance - don't ever apply for a job as an investigator - or much of anything requiring putting 2 and 2 together.

i agree. this *uckstick knows where she is

[dixicritter]

Y'all have been asked several times by FD to keep your comments respectful. All inappropriate comments will be deleted. Please keep it on topic.

[TNjed]

I agree

[Kirby]

i agree. this *uckstick knows where she is

And, unfortunately, she is most likely not anywhere safe.

Kirby

[Kirby]

But I am still hoping for the best outcome humanly possible, I wish I could help in some way.

Kirby

[OregonHiker]

They will not let this man leave police custody - at this point they could likely charge him with obstruction of justice for failing to cooperate. I have also heard that there is an outstanding warrant. Even if they do not immediately charge this man with something like kidnapping, he will not be leaving police custody.

That he did not voluntarily come to LEOs and is now uncooperative speaks volumes. Continued prayers for this woman and her family.



Failing to cooperate is not a crime

[TNjed]

he knows where she is and those two people in NC

[ed bell]

I believe, at this point, the only evidence against this guy is that some witnesses saw him talking to her, right? Am I missing something? Is there any real evidence suggesting this guy actually committed a crime? They were seen together several times on New Year's Day, their dogs were seen running together. His baton was found with some of her possessions on the trail. Meredith's dog was found off of the highway on the direct route to ATL from Blood Mountain, and his vehicle is placed close to there by survailence cameras. He has been a POI for several days and did not turn himself in. He was identified while doing what appeared to be a thorough cleaning of his van. After being brought in for questioning he has decided not to cooperate. I'm thinking he has something to do with her disappearance. It's early and this is circumstantial stuff. I can't convict the guy, but I can believe he has something to do with this. I am sure the police have not ended their investigation and are still focused like a laser beam with finding Meredith.

[KirkMcquest]

Supposedly, a witness saw them walking together and felt that something was wrong, enough so that he reported it to the police and took the guys plate down. I can't help thinking that if he felt so strongly about what he saw, why the hell didn't he intervene?? Of course I don't know all the facts so I'm groping in the dark.

[Heater]

Thanks for the clarification. The fact that that the dog, dumped belongings and POI were located in the same general area is certainly circumstantial and may be considered coincidental, but does help towards building a case. Personally, I don't believe in coincidences like this.

I assume they would need to do DNA analysis to link the dog to the van.

Fingerprints on the belongings found would do it.

[4eyedbuzzard]

i agree. this *uckstick knows where she is

Yep....

[jesse]

Who said the POI was vaccuming his van. I have not heard that on any of the news updates. BTW, those not familiar with Atlanta, It is pretty much a straight shot from where they were hiking, to where the dog and personal items were found in Cumming, to where the POI was found.

[TNjed]

I bet they'll come out with that info tonight or tomorrow

[Tin Man]

Fingerprints on the belongings found would do it.

Naturally. I prematurely assumed the perp wiped them down.

[Darwin again]

i agree. this *uckstick knows where she is

Yep. He does.
Now he thinks he's going to take a golden retirement at taxpayer expense....

[TNjed]

Naturally. I prematurely assumed the perp wiped them down.
I doubt he's that smart, since he left some of his things on the trail

[Tin Man]

I doubt he's that smart, since he left some of his things on the trail

Yup, a lot of puzzling pieces for the LEOs to put together.

[warren doyle]

I find it interesting that some of the most knowledgeable people, long distance hikers, were not allowed to help with the search by the 'authorities'.
It brings back memories of Fall 1990 when it was three 'volunteer' long distance hikers who, on their own, directly helped to capture the double AT thru-hiker murderer after he continued walking southbound (with some of his victims belongings) on the AT for over a week after committing the crime.
It makes you wonder about the effectiveness of our governmental agencies.

I wasn't impressed with the pictures of the Rapid Response Team either - they seemed ill-equipped for wintertime mountain hiking. And what is with the camoflage?

[Hooch]

And what is with the camoflage?They're law enforcement, they love that sort of para-military thing.

[SouthMark]

cops can hold you for limited amount of time without charging you. I think it's 24 hours. Also, he is 60 years old..I know several 60 year olds that can "handle" their own. And reports lastnight said that the Multiple Scorosis
was not true.

Thanks, I'm almost 61 and I believe I can still handle myself as well a many others. I just pray that this is not even an issue, that somehow she is safe and will be found.

[Lone Wolf]

I find it interesting that some of the most knowledgeable people, long distance hikers, were not allowed to help with the search by the 'authorities'.
It brings back memories of Fall 1990 when it was three 'volunteer' long distance hikers who, on their own, directly helped to capture the double AT thru-hiker murderer after he continued walking southbound (with some of his victims belongings) on the AT for over a week after committing the crime.
It makes you wonder about the effectiveness of our governmental agencies.

I wasn't impressed with the pictures of the Rapid Response Team either - they seemed ill-equipped for wintertime mountain hiking. And what is with the camoflage?

The ATC was not much help in that case. The PA State Police awarded the guys monetarily and thanked them for thier help. They gave the $$ to a childrens camp if I recall.

[Wanderingson]

I have been following this thread and the news on Meredeth since the beginning and have made any comments until now.

Thoughts and prayers go out all the way from Kuwait for her, her family, friends and co-workers. I certainly hope for a positive outcome.

I'll make a few observations here folks:

1. When a sisutation like this occurs in the hiking community it impacts each of us. Some most of us it tugs at our hearts. Others fell complelled to make unnecessary comments for the sake of making comments.

2. I am grateful for all agencies involved in working this disappearance. They still have hope and continue to do everything they can to locate her.

3. For all of you who wanted to voluteer, thanks for being that special type of person that cares.

4. Making insenitive comments on this thread is completely unacceptable. We have already determined that friends of Meredeth are reading this thread. To those of you who may be completely insensitive to others--knock your SH!!T off. You are only re-enforcing to the rest of the community that you are out of touch. Find somewhere elese to express these opinions.

5. Speculation and playing detective may not be the most appropriate in a case like this. Save your speculation for private discussions. Keep an eye on the news and try to stay objective until we hear.

6. New reports are not always accurate or complete. Be patient in making jugements before posting. Many eyes are on this thread--just look at the number of views. Saying something supid on this thread could have a backlash for first time visitors who found this community by doing a google search.

7. Have a heart my friend. If you don't think it is appropriate to post here--DON'T.

Again--thoghts and prayers from Kuwait.

[Darwin again]

Such a pretty girl. What can we learn from this as far as safety measures for other female hikers, and male too?

I have a young daughter. What would I and will I tell her?

1) 20-something females are most often the victims of violent crime on and nearby the AT.

2) Just because you feel safe, doesn't mean you are safe. Dont' be lulled into trusting just anybody while out hiking. KNOW the person(s) you're walking with and don't get into a vulnerable position with people you've just met.

3) Hikers are, for the most part, wonderful people. But use your common sense and gut feelings when you meet someone. If they make you feel uncomfortable, put distance between yourself and them. Even if they seem OK, let them prove they are OK. Never assume.

3) Continue your martial arts training.

4) Carry pepper spray. Carry hiking sticks or a staff.

5) As independent and intelligent as your obviously are, or think you are, there ARE emotionally broken or malfunctioning predator humans walking among us. KNOW who you are hiking with and if at all possible, don't hike alone with strangers.

More? I know there's more...

[bearbait2k4]

Such a pretty girl. What can we learn from this as far as safety measures for other female hikers, and male too?

I don't think we know enough specifics to be using this as a cautionary tale - being that the last person seen with her isn't cooperating (which does speak volumes).

There are plenty of things people can do, though, to keep from being victimized. Unfortunately, a lot of that includes not being free to lead and live your life the way you want.

[Sly]

I'll make a few observations here folks:



You didn't say anything that hasn't already been brought up numerous times by the moderators.

Wasted words. What's considered OK for some may not be for others.

[Frosty]

Failing to cooperate is not a crimeNo, but it often gets you charged with the crime, and then you cooperate rather than be tried for it.

Not cooperating in an investigation where you are the prime suspect is an incredibly bad idea unless you are guilty.

[Phreak]

As the search continued for missing Buford hiker Meredith Emerson, officials have focused their hunt on a 5-square mile area of the North Georgia Mountains, authorities told The Atlanta Journal-Constitution at 11:20 a.m. Saturday.

The area is near where Emerson's car was found after her New Year's Day disappearance, said Kimberly Verdone, a spokeswoman for the Union County Sheriff's Office. Verdone wouldn't disclose what led officials back to that area, which searchers have already scoured while covering 401 square miles the past three days.

A team of close to 100 volunteers planned to join professional searchers as noon neared Saturday. The volunteers had been anxiously awaiting marching orders since arriving at 8 a.m.

One of the volunteers, Angie Bogen, said at 11 a.m. that authorities told them there was a "new development" that held up the search. Bogen, 30, of Lawrenceville, said she was a friend of Emerson's.

[Wanderingson]

You didn't say anything that hasn't already been brought up numerous times by the moderators.

Wasted words. What's considered OK for some may not be for others.


Great observation Sly

[Hooch]

Not cooperating in an investigation where you are the prime suspect is an incredibly bad idea unless you are guilty.A bad idea, absolutely. But, in all firness, it is one's right under the 5th amendment not to make statemetns which might incriminate one's self. But, again, if he had nothing to do with Meredith's disappearance, he would do Meredith, her family and himself a great service by telling what he knows. Even if he had to wait for an attorney to be present, he should say what he knows if he didn't do anything.

[berninbush]

It brings back memories of Fall 1990 when it was three 'volunteer' long distance hikers who, on their own, directly helped to capture the double AT thru-hiker murderer after he continued walking southbound (with some of his victims belongings) on the AT for over a week after committing the crime.

Wherever Meredith is, I don't think she's likely still in the area where she went missing. The report I just read said that her dog was found 40 miles away, two days later. A large dog might walk that far in 2 days but would be very unlikely to *wander* that far on its own. If he was placed in a vehicle and taken elsewhere, then chances are that she was too. The hiking community and the general public can help by keeping their eyes open in a much larger search area than the authorities can possibly cover.


cops can hold you for limited amount of time without charging you. I think it's 24 hours.

It's 72 hours, actually. But it sounds like they already found some lesser charges to bring against him. As long as those hold, they can tie him up in court for quite a while.

[doggiebag]

I have a young daughter. What would I and will I tell her?

1) 20-something females are most often the victims of violent crime on and nearby the AT.

2) Just because you feel safe, doesn't mean you are safe. Dont' be lulled into trusting just anybody while out hiking. KNOW the person(s) you're walking with and don't get into a vulnerable position with people you've just met.

3) Hikers are, for the most part, wonderful people. But use your common sense and gut feelings when you meet someone. If they make you feel uncomfortable, put distance between yourself and them. Even if they seem OK, let them prove they are OK. Never assume.

3) Continue your martial arts training.

4) Carry pepper spray. Carry hiking sticks or a staff.

5) As independent and intelligent as your obviously are, or think you are, there ARE emotionally broken or malfunctioning predator humans walking among us. KNOW who you are hiking with and if at all possible, don't hike alone with strangers.

More? I know there's more...
When crossing roads - if possible stay out of view to make sure no one could see me cross into the trail head.

I always try to make a point of detecting movement and the presence of others before they detect me. I'm more hyper aware of my surroundings when I get close to populated areas or areas that are easily accesible by non hikers.

When night hiking - turn off your headlamp when you are getting close to roads.

Instinct - it will be honed after a while. Use it.

Always have a cover story to make people think you have a couple of friends behind you if you are uncomfortable with someone.

Never look too tired or weak regardless of how you feel. Always look like you can handle yourself. I'm sure there are others ...

[Darwin again]

I
It makes you wonder about the effectiveness of our governmental agencies.

I wasn't impressed with the pictures of the Rapid Response Team either - they seemed ill-equipped for wintertime mountain hiking. And what is with the camoflage?

They're from the govenment. They're here to help.:cool:

[Darwin again]

I don't think we know enough specifics to be using this as a cautionary tale - being that the last person seen with her isn't cooperating (which does speak volumes).

There are plenty of things people can do, though, to keep from being victimized. Unfortunately, a lot of that includes not being free to lead and live your life the way you want.

Good point, but nobody knows the specifics of the situation on the day they die. Bad things do happen. However, there are precautions any person can take to reduce the odds of any particular day being that day.

[4eyedbuzzard]

I find it interesting that some of the most knowledgeable people, long distance hikers, were not allowed to help with the search by the 'authorities'.
It brings back memories of Fall 1990 when it was three 'volunteer' long distance hikers who, on their own, directly helped to capture the double AT thru-hiker murderer after he continued walking southbound (with some of his victims belongings) on the AT for over a week after committing the crime.
It makes you wonder about the effectiveness of our governmental agencies.

I wasn't impressed with the pictures of the Rapid Response Team either - they seemed ill-equipped for wintertime mountain hiking. And what is with the camoflage?

If you followed this from the get-go, her roomate's intial comments about Meredith not returning Tuesday night didn't worry her all that much at the time. I believe they later went and looked and found her car still there and then notified authorities. During the initial stages local LEO (sheriff) was adamant that this was a lost hiker/SAR situation. SAR deployment was delayed until sometime Wednesday after Meredith didn't show for work. So she is missing some 18 hours before anybody really starts looking HARD. From what I can read, even after the items found on the trail are assimilated into the investigation, the sheriff is still calling it a missing persons case - GBI doesn't really get involved until sometime Thursday from what I can gather. So well over 24 and closer to 48 hours have passed before LEO experienced with this type of crime are involved. Very simply, too much time passed before calling in the cavalry. I'm aware hindsight is 20/20 - I'm not blaming the sheriff. I'm sure they get a lot of innocent lost hiker situations - but something never smelled right from the beginning in this one, and it doesn't seem as though that was picked up on.

As to LEO monopolizing SAR's and such. There's this us and them mentality in government agencies that's gotten worse over the years. Credentialization is the word of the day. If you haven't dotted the "i's" and crossed the "t's" in their program you don't know what you're doing. The reasonable side of their argument is they don't want additional victims and in crime cases, crime scene issues., and volunteers who aren't sworn to follow orders. But I think there's also a bit of prima donna narcissism as well.

[Vince]

I'm just nauseous with all of this. I'm keeping hope but can't even find words anymore. All we can do here (meaning us, at home) is keep praying.

[wrongway_08]

I'm just nauseous with all of this. I'm keeping hope but can't even find words anymore. All we can do here (meaning us, at home) is keep praying.

Yea, X2 .....:( .... keep pray'n..:)

[Darwin again]

Failing to cooperate is not a crime

I wouldn't bet on that.

[OregonHiker]

No, but it often gets you charged with the crime, and then you cooperate rather than be tried for it..

False


Not cooperating in an investigation where you are the prime suspect is an incredibly bad idea unless you are guilty.

True

[bearbait2k4]

I believe, at this point, the only evidence against this guy is that some witnesses saw him talking to her, right? Am I missing something? Is there any real evidence suggesting this guy actually committed a crime?

If there were real evidence, he would not be a POI, he'd be a suspect, and they would be/would have charged him upon apprehending him.

When law enforcement seeks out POI's, it is their hope to gain this evidence, because they have nothing, otherwise. Hopefully, they will get their evidence.

[chief]

You didn't say anything that hasn't already been brought up numerous times by the moderators.

Wasted words. What's considered OK for some may not be for others.You are correct. Our moderators are wielding a crooked stick!

[OregonHiker]

I wouldn't bet on that.

In this instance yes..."you have the right to remain silent"

[dixicritter]

You are correct. Our moderators are wielding a crooked stick!

Knock it off.

[Darwin again]

In this instance yes..."you have the right to remain silent"

I still wouldn't bet on it.

[OregonHiker]

As to LEO monopolizing SAR's and such.


I think it is more likely they want to "control" the search. That way the area can be searched in an organized and methodical manner, without destroying tracks, sign, evidence etc.

Folks like to bash cops until they need one

[Jan LiteShoe]

Isn't there is a warrant outstanding for property abandonment?
"Gary Michael Hilton was once convicted of two felonies: one for the possession and distribution of marijuana, another for theft by taking."
If so, might hold him on that.

[OregonHiker]

You are correct. Our moderators are wielding a crooked stick!

Don't like the rules...start your own game:)

[Hooch]

In this instance yes..."you have the right to remain silent"Again, this goes back to one's 5th Amendment priviledge. When a person is read their Miranda warning, this is where that statement that "you have the right to remain silent" comes from. Even if he hasn't been read Miranda, he still, under the 5th Amendment, has the right to remain silent and not make statements which may incriminate him.

[OregonHiker]

I still wouldn't bet on it.


Don't then...read the constitution...5th ammemdment:mad:

[Hooch]

Isn't there is a warrant outstanding for property abandonment?
"Gary Michael Hilton was once convicted of two felonies: one for the possession and distribution of marijuana, another for theft by taking."
If so, might hold him on that.You can't be held on past convictions if the person has served their sentence. If he were on parole and there was evidence to show he had indeed commited a crime, his parole could be revoked and held on that. From what I've read thus far, that doesn't appear to be the case.

[4eyedbuzzard]

I think it is more likely they want to "control" the search. That way the area can be searched in an organized and methodical manner, without destroying tracks, sign, evidence etc.

Folks like to bash cops until they need one

I noted that in my post, which you failed to quote in your response.

But don't tell me government and LE doesn't have an attitude and doesn't make mistakes. I've been on this planet too long and seen way to many instances of it first hand.

[Phreak]

Don't then...read the constitution...5th ammemdment:mad:

This is not the time nor place for a p*ssing contest.

[OregonHiker]

This is not the time nor place for a p*ssing contest.


Nor to get one's panties in a knot for no good reason:-?

[Darwin again]

Don't then...read the constitution...5th ammemdment:mad:

If he hasn't been charged, he likely hasn't been mirandized, no?
And if he's innocent, how could he incriminate himself by cooperating?

(enough Constitution-thumping, please.)

[bearbait2k4]

In this instance yes..."you have the right to remain silent"

Yes, in a perfect world, this will keep you from incriminating yourself.

However, full cooperation is a person's best bet. If he cooperated, he probably would have been released by now (had he done nothing, if he were an innocent man). He didn't, so now his record has been searched, he apparently has warrants that they can hold him on, and he's digging himself a deeper hole, all for not cooperating and remaining silent.

There are great times to stand up for your rights and to protect your personal liberties. However, it's good to know how to pick your battles. This guy is choosing poorly. Not only is it making him look more guilty, but it is creating a harder road for him. Even if he did do something sinister here, cooperation would still give him a better chance and outcome than what he is currently doing. At least then it would appear that he has remorse (if he is guilty).

Believe me, it benefits anyone to cooperate with Law Enforcement most of the time. If you cooperate, they'll be nice to you. Otherwise, you are just another a-hole getting in the way of them doing their job (in this case, finding a missing woman), and they'll put the screws to you.

[dixicritter]

Stop it guys. I mean it. I will put people on time out. I don't want to have to babysit this thread all day.

[AlwaysHiking]

I was finally able to get my computer to load the article from the ACJ. In the photo of Meridith and Emma, she is holding a certificate of some sort. When I click on "Enlarge", I get an error message. Does anyone have a copy of the enlarged image? Is she holding a CGC (Canine Good Citizen) certificate for Emma? Brad wants to know.

It says Super Duper Dog Training, LLC Diploma across the top.

Photo 14 at this link: http://projects.ajc.com/gallery/view/metro/gwinnett/0103missing/

[Jan LiteShoe]

You can't be held on past convictions if the person has served their sentence. If he were on parole and there was evidence to show he had indeed commited a crime, his parole could be revoked and held on that. From what I've read thus far, that doesn't appear to be the case.

Correct. The charge of property abandonment has been mentioned as outstanding.

[amstar]

Hi. I am new to this forum and am here mainly to get information about the missing hiker. I lived in Alabama and Georgia for a number of years and am somewhat familiar with the area. I am also a dog owner and lover.

An observation: This person of interest seems to care about dogs-- after all he has one. Maybe he connects more on an emotional level with dogs than with humans. I believe that he was concerned enough about Emma to ensure that she reached a safe place. I do not believe this man is very bright and he may be mentally ill because, if he has done something to Meredith, he did not cover his tracks very well. It could be that his compassion for Emma will contribute greatly to his downfall.

My prayers are with Meredith, her family and friends.

[Hooch]

Correct. The charge of property abandonment has been mentioned as outstanding.
Yep, that's my understanding as well, Jan. He can only be held for so long as a person of interest by the GA LEO's, but a federal warrant will hold things up significantly. He's not going anywhere any time soon.

[Hooch]

The latest. (http://www.wsbtv.com/news/14983460/detail.html)

[Frosty]

A bad idea, absolutely. But, in all firness, it is one's right under the 5th amendment not to make statemetns which might incriminate one's self. Agree totally, and if one is guilty, the 5th amendment is very useful, but note that an innocent person's statements would not incriminate them at all, and thus the 5th amendment should not apply.

Not to mention the fact that by saying your statements will incriminate you, you are basically telling the police you are guilty. That's why (to me) it is such a bad idea not to cooperate IF you are innocent.

Police may be overbearing at times, but they aren't stupid. The first thing most innocent people want to do is clear themselves. There are, of course, always the persons of strong priciples who are willing to go to jail rather than compromise their principles, and will not cooperate for that reason.

I don't know whether to admire them for standing up for what they believe at all costs, or pity them for their impracticality.

[Jan LiteShoe]

Hi. I am new to this forum and am here mainly to get information about the missing hiker. I lived in Alabama and Georgia for a number of years and am somewhat familiar with the area. I am also a dog owner and lover.
An observation: This person of interest seems to care about dogs-- after all he has one. Maybe he connects more on an emotional level with dogs than with humans. I believe that he was concerned enough about Emma to ensure that she reached a safe place. I do not believe this man is very bright and he may be mentally ill because, if he has done something to Meredith, he did not cover his tracks very well. It could be that his compassion for Emma will contribute greatly to his downfall.

My prayers are with Meredith, her family and friends.

Hello Amstar, as you can see, this case has touched us too.

Re: mentally unstable, two Murphy Candler Park dogwalkers on this wiki seemed to think he was:
http://www.zimbio.com/Gary+Michael+Hilton/articles/1/Welcome+wikizine+Gary+Michael+Hilton+Meredith

It's not an unknown phenomenon where some can harden their hearts to humans but not animals.

[Grandma]

Forsyth is north of Atlanta, Dekalb is actually part of Atlanta, on the east side, LONG WAYS APART. I've only lived in the NE GA Mountains my entire life.
For those of you who don't live around here. Hwy 19, which crosses the AT at Neels Gap, hits the end of GA 400 south of Dahlonega. The gas station that this POI was found at is only a few miles off of 400. I work right down the road from the Kroger where he was found. It takes me an hour and fifteen to get to Blood Mtn. from work.

[Sly]

The latest. (http://www.wsbtv.com/news/14983460/detail.html)

I see the article also mentions the NC couple connection. While it's possible, wearing a yellow jacket is flimsy evidence at best.

I wonder how far it was from the baton to the parking area or where his van was parked?

[BMRisko]

he knows where she is and those two people in NC

Everyone knows that you think both crimes are connected, please stop reitterating it every few posts. Thanks! What connection do you have other than a yellow rain jacket? That is hardly uncommon...we have a pile of about 100 of them at work.

[Sly]

For those of you who don't live around here. Hwy 19, which crosses the AT at Neels Gap, hits the end of GA 400 south of Dahlonega. The gas station that this POI was found at is only a few miles off of 400. I work right down the road from the Kroger where he was found. It takes me an hour and fifteen to get to Blood Mtn. from work.

The POI wasn' found at Kroger, the dog was.

[Grandma]

The POI wasn' found at Kroger, the dog was.
His van was behind a Chevron on Anshford-Woody Rd. Behind the Chevron is a Kroger shoping center. You can see this in the pictures of the van.

[darkage]

There not connected, Get over it people ....

[Miss Janet]

Somebody help me out here... I am still confused... Does anyone know?


Were Merediths car and Hiltons Van parked in the same place??

[Frosty]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frosty:
No, but it often gets you charged with the crime, and then you cooperate rather than be tried for it..


False
Alas, it is true. One example:

Ray Lewis, the Batimore Ravens line backer, was not involved in a murder in Atlanta, but had information about the two men the police thought guilty. He would not divulge this inormation and was charged with murder along with the two men (Reginald Oakley and Joseph Sweeting). Lewis held out for a while, but rather than be tried he opted to tell what he knew.

As far as it not being a crime to not cooperate, you could also be charged with obstruction of justice. The Weasel I'm sure could confirm or deny this, but my memory is that in New Bedford Mass, a guy was jailed for obstruction. No punishment for this "crime," but it was nasty as he was held until he agreed to talk, so it basically amounted to a life sentence unless he caved. Which he did.

It is fine to talk of thumbing your nose at the cops, and standing up for your "rights," but you are challenging them, and they will respond with what laws they have available to them.

Sorry for the topic drift.

[Sly]

Somebody help me out here... I am still confused... Does anyone know?


Were Merediths car and Hiltons Van parked in the same place??

Not for sure, but I imagine they were.

[Grandma]

Somebody help me out here... I am still confused... Does anyone know?


Were Merediths car and Hiltons Van parked in the same place??
Her car is parked a little north of Neels Gap, which I belive is where he was parked while he was on the trail. I believe this is how they got his plate number. But his van was found over an hour south in Dunwoody.

[RITBlake]

Somebody help me out here... I am still confused... Does anyone know?


Were Merediths car and Hiltons Van parked in the same place??


Miss J,

That was the impression that I got from the begining. We know that at some point, he was at HER car because of the items left behind.

Also the hiker who grabbed the plate number had parked in that same area so one can assume.

[Creek Dancer]

http://www.myfoxatlanta.com/myfox/pages/Home/Detail?contentId=5401449&version=1&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=1.1.1

Looks like they are searching two different areas for Meredith.

[OregonHiker]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frosty:
No, but it often gets you charged with the crime, and then you cooperate rather than be tried for it..


Alas, it is true. One example:

Ray Lewis, the Batimore Ravens line backer, was not involved in a murder in Atlanta, but had information about the two men the police thought guilty. He would not divulge this inormation and was charged with murder along with the two men (Reginald Oakley and Joseph Sweeting). Lewis held out for a while, but rather than be tried he opted to tell what he knew.

As far as it not being a crime to not cooperate, you could also be charged with obstruction of justice. The Weasel I'm sure could confirm or deny this, but my memory is that in New Bedford Mass, a guy was jailed for obstruction. No punishment for this "crime," but it was nasty as he was held until he agreed to talk, so it basically amounted to a life sentence unless he caved. Which he did.

It is fine to talk of thumbing your nose at the cops, and standing up for your "rights," but you are challenging them, and they will respond with what laws they have available to them.

Sorry for the topic drift.

Lewis was charged with murder...not for not cooperating

Was the New Bedford guy imprisoned for being a material witness?
You can't be held for life without being tried and convicted.

I saw it on Perry Mason once:)

[RITBlake]

they've learned something, search area down to 5 square miles

http://www.ajc.com/news/content/metro/gwinnett/stories/2008/01/05/missing_0106.html?cxntlid=homepage_tab_newstab

[Sly]

Her car is parked a little north of Neels Gap, which I belive is where he was parked while he was on the trail. I believe this is how they got his plate number. But his van was found over an hour south in Dunwoody.

Isn't Vogel the trailhead they used?, west of Neel's Gap? There's no parking north (as the AT goes) that I'm aware of.

[Arundodonax]

His van was behind a Chevron on Anshford-Woody Rd. Behind the Chevron is a Kroger shoping center. You can see this in the pictures of the van.

Not the same Kroger. The dog was found at the one up in Cumming at 400 & HWY 306(Keith Bridge Rd). Some Meredith's possesions were found at a QT gas station dumptser across thee street from this Kroger.

GMH was found at the Chevron in Dunwoody.

[thestin]

If the POI is considered a "material witness" they may be able to hold him longer.

[Arundodonax]

Isn't Vogel the trailhead they used?, west of Neel's Gap? There's no parking north (as the AT goes) that I'm aware of.

There are a couple places to park between Vogel and Neels' Gap. There is roadside parking and a lot at the Freeman Trail which is a feeder for the AT.

[Sly]

There are a couple places to park between Vogel and Neels' Gap. There is roadside parking and a lot at the Freeman Trail which is a feeder for the AT.

OK, thanks. I should know I've past there many times. But it is west of Neels Gap correct?

[Bulldawg]

Isn't Vogel the trailhead they used?, west of Neel's Gap? There's no parking north (as the AT goes) that I'm aware of.


There are a couple of places North on 129 to park.

[earlyriser26]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frosty:
No, but it often gets you charged with the crime, and then you cooperate rather than be tried for it..


Alas, it is true. One example:

Ray Lewis, the Batimore Ravens line backer, was not involved in a murder in Atlanta, but had information about the two men the police thought guilty. He would not divulge this inormation and was charged with murder along with the two men (Reginald Oakley and Joseph Sweeting). Lewis held out for a while, but rather than be tried he opted to tell what he knew.

As far as it not being a crime to not cooperate, you could also be charged with obstruction of justice. The Weasel I'm sure could confirm or deny this, but my memory is that in New Bedford Mass, a guy was jailed for obstruction. No punishment for this "crime," but it was nasty as he was held until he agreed to talk, so it basically amounted to a life sentence unless he caved. Which he did.

It is fine to talk of thumbing your nose at the cops, and standing up for your "rights," but you are challenging them, and they will respond with what laws they have available to them.

Sorry for the topic drift.
I say bring it on! This is not a court. I feel fine looking at this guys numerous criminal convictions and the evidence so far and believe him to be guilty.

[4eyedbuzzard]

The latest. (http://www.wsbtv.com/news/14983460/detail.html)

"Police found items belonging to missing hiker Meredith Emerson in a dumpster Saturday in Cumming, outside a store where surveillance cameras captured the man investigators are calling a "person of interest" in the case.

The discovery triggered a new search for Emerson, 24, as police fanned out into a wooded area near the store searching for any clues."

He dumps the dog and her belongings here, getting rid of the last of the easily visible evidence, and heads further south on his own in the van then proceeds to undertake a better clean-up. No way she is further south of the dumpster point. She's most likely either in the immediate vicinity or off a road between where she was parked at Blood Mtn and the Kroger area.

[Lone Wolf]

OK, thanks. I should know I've past there many times. But it is west of Neels Gap correct?

west, north. same thing. towards Blairsville. Byron Reese parking area

[flagator]

My gf and I did neels to amicalola 12/27 - 12/30. Ascending Blood Mountain from the north there was a dude with bad dental work, sort of looked like this guy. But he was dressed with an orange vest and had a hat, as if he was hunting but I didn't see a gun. About a mile or 2 out of Neels theres a part where there are some humungous rocks that you can sort of climb up and look down over the trail, thats where he was. I was taking a picture of my girlfriend with her on top of the rock from the trail. When i was taking the picture I noticed some noise and thought I heard a hiker using the trail coming north, and I heard some quiet talking. But than when we got back on the trail he was the only one in site and he was sitting down quietly and he just nodded at me. But I distinctly heard a bunch of noise like bushed, makes me think he had a dog and he went to fetch something. I realize it probably isnt the same dude, but it really makes me think, I was very creeped out by him. Than not too long after, maybe 15 mins i came across a heavy set man dressed in a blue shirt, he assured me and my gf that we were almost to the summit and we had already done the hardest. I wonder if that blue shirt dressed man uses this site, and are reading, if you saw this dude. He was probably being shady looking for lone females, was my instict. But I am very watchful and protective around strangers. This was on 12/27 about 4:00 pm give or take 20 mins. I know it was days in advance but who knows!

[Grandma]

Isn't Vogel the trailhead they used?, west of Neel's Gap? There's no parking north (as the AT goes) that I'm aware of.
There is a parking lot about a 200 yrds north of Mountain Crossings, and an access trail to the AT. I believe it is the Reece State Memorial?

[SouthMark]

Obstruction of justice charges are laid when it is discovered that a person questioned in an investigation, who is not a suspect, has lied to the investigating officers. However, in most common law jurisdictions, the right to remain silent allows any person who is questioned by police merely to refuse to answer questions posed by an investigator without giving any reason for doing so. (In such a case, the investigators may subpoena the witness to give testimony under oath in court) It is not relevant if the person lied to protect a suspect (such as setting up a false alibi, even if the suspect is in fact innocent) or to hide from an investigation of their own activities (such as to hide their involvement in another crime). Obstruction charges can also be laid if a person alters or destroys physical evidence, even if they were under no compulsion at any time to produce such evidence.

[Lone Wolf]

There is a parking lot about a 200 yrds north of Mountain Crossings, and an access trail to the AT. I believe it is the Reece State Memorial?

more like.4

[Jan LiteShoe]

http://www.11alive.com/news/article_news.aspx?storyid=109075
Her wallet and drivers license.

[jesse]

Originally Posted by Hooch http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/wb_style/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=491581#post491581)
The latest. (http://www.wsbtv.com/news/14983460/detail.html) #824



1. A witness has confirmed he owned a baton, and carried it a lot. A baton was found among Merideths things.
2. He was seen at the convienience store where some of Merideths things were found, and near where the dog was found.
This is stong physical evidence.

Also, he is not cooperating with investagators. That is such strange behavior, if he is innocent, for a fellow hiker, to not try and help find a missing hiker.

[Grandma]

Not the same Kroger. The dog was found at the one up in Cumming at 400 & HWY 306(Keith Bridge Rd). Some Meredith's possesions were found at a QT gas station dumptser across thee street from this Kroger.

GMH was found at the Chevron in Dunwoody.
The Chevron is at the corner of Ashford Dunwoody and Johnson Ferry Rd, across from Blackburn Park. There is a McDonalds and Kroger there.

[briarpatch]

There are a couple places to park between Vogel and Neels' Gap. There is roadside parking and a lot at the Freeman Trail which is a feeder for the AT.

The trailhead you are describing is the Byron Reece Memorial Parking Lot. It has a spur trail called the Byron Reece Trail that leads 1 mile to the AT. The Freeman Trail starts at the AT across from the Byron Reece Trail and goes around Blood Mountain where it rejoins the AT at Bird Gap. News reports keep mentioning Vogel State Park, but Vogel is a few miles form the main parking lot for Blood Mountain. The media are confusing the Blood Mountain area and Vogel and keep saying things like "seen on Blood Mountain at Vogel State Park". You can get to Blood from Vogel via the Coosa Backcounty Trail to the Duncan Ridge Trail to Slaughter Gap, but nothing I have heard makes it sound like that was where Meredith and the POI were seen.

Most people hiking Blood park at the Byron Reese parking lot, and take the Byron Reece Trail to the AT. If you continue on across the AT, you are on the Freeman Trail. If you turn right on the AT, you end up on Blood Mountain. If you turn left on the AT, you end up at Neels Gap.

My understanding is that Meredith's car was found at Byron Reece.

[RITBlake]

the holding issue is a none issue, he's not going anywhere:

Hilton is being held at an undisclosed location in the custody of the Georgia Bureau of Investigations. He is being held on charges of failing to appear in court for a citation he received from a Federal Park Ranger at the Chattahoochee National Park.

[Sly]

I say bring it on! This is not a court. I feel fine looking at this guys numerous criminal convictions and the evidence so far and believe him to be guilty.

His past criminal convictions aren't in the same league and are rather innocuous.

[jesse]

flagator,
You should tell your story to the investigators. If its irrelevent, let them make that decision

[earlyriser26]

Originally Posted by Hooch http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/wb_style/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=491581#post491581)
The latest. (http://www.wsbtv.com/news/14983460/detail.html) #824



1. A witness has confirmed he owned a baton, and carried it a lot. A baton was found among Merideths things.
2. He was seen at the convienience store where some of Merideths things were found, and near where the dog was found.
This is stong physical evidence.

Also, he is not cooperating with investagators. That is such strange behavior, if he is innocent, for a fellow hiker, to not try and help find a missing hiker.
These things never turn out well. Hopefully I'm wrong and this is that 1% chance. It is so sad to see her freinds on TV saying that she knew martial arts and could protect herself. My daughter has a black belt too and won the Junoir Olympics, but she is not better than a gun.

[Sly]

Originally Posted by Hooch http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/wb_style/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=491581#post491581)
The latest. (http://www.wsbtv.com/news/14983460/detail.html) #824




2. He was seen at the convienience store where some of Merideths things were found, and near where the dog was found.
This is stong physical evidence.


Yes it would be but I muct have missed that part. Which paragrapgh?

Edit: Nevermind sorry it's in the 1st paragraph!

[Toolshed]

If there were real evidence, he would not be a POI, he'd be a suspect, and they would be/would have charged him upon apprehending him.

When law enforcement seeks out POI's, it is their hope to gain this evidence, because they have nothing, otherwise. Hopefully, they will get their evidence.
Real evidence?? versus what other kind of evidence??
Not exactly. I have read of cases where Law Enforcement will have enough evidence to hold a person but would rather not arrest, preferring to keep that person in friendly mode, talking in an understanding, non-accusatory manner, trying to get them to become comfortable enough with certain officers where the individual will end up admitting what ocurred. Arresting and threatening someone with prison, DP or whatever, doesn't necessarily always work when you are trying to gain their confidence.

[flagator]

Well the guy was not dressed in yellow, but orange. And I just did not trust the guy, because he looked ragged and it was days in advance. Im sure i'd just be laughed at by invesitgators as it isnt a very strong lead. I just havent been able to sleep normal as it could easily have been my gf, maybe he didnt want to go through a male, or maybe he just wasnt there yet. I am just wondering if any of the users here were on that segment ascending blood mountain from the north at that hour 4:30pm on 12/27 cause that dude i saw was sketch as well, he was all dressed to hunt but he wasnt hunting, just lurking on a rock, looked sort of like a bum. I saw about 6-7 people. But the only person I really remember was that dude in the blue shirt in his 30s probably a little heavy set, he has a white sweat band, and he told me mand my gf "you guys are almost there, youve done the hardest." I saw this nice man in the blue short maybe 15 mins after the shady character.

[Darwin again]

Lewis was charged with murder...not for not cooperating Was the New Bedford guy imprisoned for being a material witness? You can't be held for life without being tried and convicted.

But see? The effect was the same -- he cooperated.

It's true you can't be held for life without trial...
{bleep - polictical commentary}
However, that also means that the guilty can game the system when circumstances favor them doing so. This guy can game all he wants, but the facts will tell his tale to the police. It'll take some time, but the truth will emerge.

[jaiden]

Well the guy was not dressed in yellow, but orange. And I just did not trust the guy, because he looked ragged and it was days in advance. Im sure i'd just be laughed at by invesitgators as it isnt a very strong lead. I just havent been able to sleep normal as it could easily have been my gf, maybe he didnt want to go through a male, or maybe he just wasnt there yet. I am just wondering if any of the users here were on that segment ascending blood mountain from the north at that hour 4:30pm on 12/27 cause that dude i saw was sketch as well, he was all dressed to hunt but he wasnt hunting, just lurking on a rock, looked sort of like a bum. I saw about 6-7 people. But the only person I really remember was that dude in the blue shirt in his 30s probably a little heavy set, he has a white sweat band, and he told me mand my gf "you guys are almost there, youve done the hardest." I saw this nice man in the blue short maybe 15 mins after the shady character.

You never know what might help. The cops know things they aren't telling everyone. A shady person in the immediate area of a missing person within a few days is worth reporting. Please call the GBI, just in case it helps.

[earlyriser26]

POI vs. Suspect? Police say POI, non-police say suspect. This POI will be a suspect real soon. Calling someone a suspect can screw up your case if you are wrong and it costs nothing to call someone a POI. In some cases the criminal is so dumb that they don't even know they are a suspect.

[Sly]

And I just did not trust the guy, because he looked ragged and it was days in advance.

Half the long distance hikers I know look ragged. :rolleyes: Would you trust this guy?

http://gallery.backcountry.net/album04/aag

[cathleen]

I was just wondering since they have found her dog Ella....why not put Ella out to find her in the area they are searching? She seems to be a pretty smart dog and would probable have a good chance .??

[flagator]

no way in hell. Which is why im saying it probably isnt the guy. But it was creepy. because I heard him talking, and when I walked around those big rocks, he was by himself, makes me think he was talking to his dog, and maybe his dog was just gone because he threw something for him to fetch, or he was just talking to himself. Maybe it wasnt the poi and this guy had something to do with it. But I feel stupid calling and reporting although it is probably the correct thing to do helpful or not, maybe ill get myself to do it in the next little bit, I jotted the numbers down.

[Sly]

no way in hell.

Thanks. That's OK I don't trust you either and I've never even seen you..

[flagator]

Maybe, but I dont know that labs have particularly good noses.

[Freeleo]

get off the internet and make the call man

[Jan LiteShoe]

no way in hell. Which is why im saying it probably isnt the guy. But it was creepy. because I heard him talking, and when I walked around those big rocks, he was by himself, makes me think he was talking to his dog, and maybe his dog was just gone because he threw something for him to fetch, or he was just talking to himself. Maybe it wasnt the poi and this guy had something to do with it. But I feel stupid calling and reporting although it is probably the correct thing to do helpful or not, maybe ill get myself to do it in the next little bit, I jotted the numbers down.

There are worse things than feeling stupid.
You never know when a piece of info is a key. If I were family, I'd be grateful for the try.
The POI seems to have lived out of his van and backpack. He has a history of hanging out in the woods. A change of clothes over several days time is not unusual.

[Miss Janet]

Her car is parked a little north of Neels Gap, which I belive is where he was parked while he was on the trail. I believe this is how they got his plate number....


Ok, so the guy who had the "weird" feeling... that found the "pile of items"... that took Hiltons Van tag number... How did he know which car tag to remember? I am assuming that there were even more cars there as it has been reported that several others saw Meredith and Hilton as well... just a weird feeling I have.

[Alligator]

Her dog would be introducing conflicting evidence to any crime scene. Remote but important consideration. They have her stuff, a bloodhound would likely be a better choice no?

[Lilred]

not saying it was the same guy either, or that this guy they have is guilty, but, if you saw the same person that committed a crime, a couple of days beforehand, it could be the difference in charges. the difference between pre-meditated or not. I think you have a duty to report it.

[FatMan]

Ok, so the guy who had the "weird" feeling... that found the "pile of items"... that took Hiltons Van tag number... How did he know which car tag to remember? I am assuming that there were even more cars there as it has been reported that several others saw Meredith and Hilton as well... just a weird feeling I have.I have the same weird feeling.

[Two Speed]

Half the long distance hikers I know look ragged. :rolleyes: Would you trust this guy?

http://gallery.backcountry.net/album04/aagI wouldn't. He looks like the kind that'll promise to buy beer and then horn in when I find someone to mooch off of.

[flagator]

I called. It was just a woman from the sheriffs office, didnt seem to appear interested in my observations. I forgot to emphasize the part that I heard him talking, but than he was by himself. Anyways, I do feel better now

[doggiebag]

Half the long distance hikers I know look ragged. :rolleyes: Would you trust this guy?

http://gallery.backcountry.net/album04/aag
I've seen worse. Yes - based on the clothing. Which spells functionality over fashion :D - it's easy to spot a long distance hiker as opposed to someone who isn't all there. Bottom line - if you're completely self sufficient. Why would you need to have to trust a stranger? Would I leave my pack outside the store unsecured? Yes - I've got my dog tied to it.

[Sly]

I wouldn't. He looks like the kind that'll promise to buy beer and then horn in when I find someone to mooch off of.

LOL.. yeah!

My point is you can't always go by what someone looks like. Take Ted Bundy and some others...

[cathleen]

Black labs are very smart dogs...i think rated in top three or five. If anything terrible did happen to her...and i hope thats not the case....if the dog were there ...she would know where to find her owner.

[rlharris]

Maybe, but I dont know that labs have particularly good noses.

Labs, like all dogs, have an excellent sense of smell. Many labs can still use it.

It appears that Meredith and Emma completed an obedience training class and that Meredith was particularily proud of it (two different pictures of her holding the graduation certificate and Emma). As anyone who has done obedience training with a dog can attest, a special, strong bond can develop between owner and handler. It might just be profitable to put Emma on a Flexi and take her out to an area where Meredith was known to be on her hike and see if Emma reacts.

But, on the negative side, Emma may not be trained/certified for SAR and she may not be any help.

[flagator]

self-sufficient, im not talking about borrowing sugar here. trusting - as in not turning your back to them. as in when your having a conversation, hide all details, and even lie about having hiking partners. Thats what im talking about.

[Darwin again]

Latest: (http://www.wsbtv.com/news/14983460/detail.html)

Police found items belonging to missing hiker Meredith Emerson in a dumpster Saturday in Cumming, outside a store where surveillance cameras captured the man investigators are calling a "person of interest" in the case.The discovery triggered a new search for Emerson, 24, as police fanned out into a wooded area near the store searching for any clues.The Kroger store is the same location where Emerson's dog was found Friday night.

[Frolicking Dinosaurs]

Ok, so the guy who had the "weird" feeling... that found the "pile of items"... that took Hiltons Van tag number... How did he know which car tag to remember? I am assuming that there were even more cars there as it has been reported that several others saw Meredith and Hilton as well... just a weird feeling I have.
I have the same weird feeling.If you saw a guy with the description of the POI that gave you the creeps on the trail and when you got to the parking lot there was a van that someone appeared to be living from, which plate number would you take down? We don't know if other plate numbers where supplied as well... I imagine the police pulled the DMV photos of any and all they knew were in that area and asked witnesses to ID who they saw with the missing lady.

I'm sure the police won't discounted the possiblity that more than one person or someone else altogether was involved in this disappearance (unless they have firm evidence that the POI was the one disposing of her things, had the dog in his van, or something like that)

[4eyedbuzzard]

Latest: (http://www.wsbtv.com/news/14983460/detail.html)

Police found items belonging to missing hiker Meredith Emerson in a dumpster Saturday in Cumming, outside a store where surveillance cameras captured the man investigators are calling a "person of interest" in the case.The discovery triggered a new search for Emerson, 24, as police fanned out into a wooded area near the store searching for any clues.The Kroger store is the same location where Emerson's dog was found Friday night.

Thanks for the update, but already posted. Getting hard to keep up with all the posts in this thread and the news updates. Step away for 5 minutes and you have three pages to read.

[Bulldawg]

If you saw a guy with the description of the POI that gave you the creeps on the trail and when you got to the parking lot there was a van that someone appeared to be living from, which plate number would you take down? We don't know if other plate numbers where supplied as well... I imagine the police pulled the DMV photos of any and all they knew were in that area and asked witnesses to ID who they saw with the missing lady.

I'm sure the police won't discounted the possiblity that more than one person or someone else altogether was involved in this disappearance (unless they have firm evidence that the POI was the one disposing of her things, had the dog in his van, or something like that)

I would not think it would take LEO long to dissern if Emma had been in Hilton's van. They may already know, but just not releasing that info yet. Just MHO.

[Smile]

A good article and suggestions for the hiking community at the American Hiking Society site. Good advice and practices to keep in mind. "She is one of us"

Still hoping for the best for Meredith, and her family.

American Hiking Society Blog (http://americanhiking.chattablogs.com/archives/065211.html)

[Frolicking Dinosaurs]

I called. It was just a woman from the sheriffs office, didnt seem to appear interested in my observations. I forgot to emphasize the part that I heard him talking, but than he was by himself. Anyways, I do feel better nowThank you for making the call. Even if it is not related to this case, it is something that you provided the info. You done good.

[cathleen]

Sorry..i've been alling the dog Ella....i must be wrong..is it Emma?

[Darwin again]

Thanks for the update, but already posted. Getting hard to keep up with all the posts in this thread and the news updates. Step away for 5 minutes and you have three pages to read.

Veesion of story was updated at 2:41 p.m.

[Darwin again]

Sorry..i've been alling the dog Ella....i must be wrong..is it Emma?

The name on the dog training certificate is "Ella."
The online media keeps using "Emma."
:rolleyes:

[4eyedbuzzard]

Veesion of story was updated at 2:41 p.m.

Sorry, my bad! Didn't see the update time:o

[Critterman]

These things never turn out well. Hopefully I'm wrong and this is that 1% chance. It is so sad to see her freinds on TV saying that she knew martial arts and could protect herself. My daughter has a black belt too and won the Junoir Olympics, but she is not better than a gun.

Who knows what happened to this young woman and hopefully she is OK. However, evil men often use a ruse to put their victims off guard and ambush rather then start a straight up fight. They seek to disable quickly and without risk of physical danger to themselves. It is unlikely a person would have a chance to use their self defense skills.

[Sly]

I would not think it would take LEO long to dissern if Emma had been in Hilton's van. They may already know, but just not releasing that info yet. Just MHO.

The evidence is surely mounting and a bit more than circumstantal. If they find Ella's hair (Emma?) in the van, it would seem to me they'd have enough to press some kind of charges.

[MamaCat]

Hello All,

I've been hanging back and soaking it all in, just hoping that this is going to turn out OK, but in the past day my feelings have sunk. There are a couple of questions I still have in my mind that we may never know. But I thought I would share -- here goes.

-- Why were her things left actually on the mountain. If he attacked her there, it would be awfully hard to carry her off the mountain.
-- If you were going to do something to somebody, wouldn't you take care not to leave anything? Especially maybe the weapon used to do it (the baton)??

I don't know, these two things are just plaguing my mind. Just is too weird.

--- MamaCat

[RITBlake]

-- If you were going to do something to somebody, wouldn't you take care not to leave anything? Especially maybe the weapon used to do it (the baton)??

I don't know, these two things are just plaguing my mind. Just is too weird.

--- MamaCat

It happens, he was probably moving very quickly and was panicking a bit to get the hell out of there.

Once in a while you hear of a bank robber leaving his wallet behind at the bank, dumber things have happened.

[Jan LiteShoe]

Well, he'll be in court Monday on a minor charge:http://www.ajc.com/news/content/metro/gwinnett/stories/2008/01/05/missing_0106.html?cxntlid=homepage_tab_newstab


"U.S. Marshals spokesman James Ergas told The Atlanta Journal-Constitution at 1:10 p.m. Saturday that Gary Michael Hilton, 61, was in custody on an outstanding bench warrant. The warrant was issued several months ago when Hilton did not appear in federal court on a charge of abandoning property in a national park."

[Darwin again]

The evidence is surely mounting and a bit more than circumstantal. If they find Ella's hair (Emma?) in the van, it would seem to me they'd have enough to press some kind of charges.

Seems like trace evidence of the dog in the van would only prove the dog had been in the van and nothing else, which is pretty circumstantial. But evidence of her presence in that van would be hard to refute.

[flagator]

but its amazing what forensics can do, they could match her hair, with some from her brush at home as well.

[Miss Janet]

UHHH!!! Where is Grisom when you need him???

[Jan LiteShoe]

The dropped baton and sunglasses is a sticking point I keep thinking on too. Why drop the baton?
Other questions: Was the sheath holding the baton? One report had it clipped to the belt. what was the sheath for then?
I never heard of an expandable baton, so I googled it. The first few sites sell all kinds of them, along with small tasers and the like. I did not know there were small hand-held tasers.

[4eyedbuzzard]

-- Why were her things left actually on the mountain. If he attacked her there, it would be awfully hard to carry her off the mountain.
-- If you were going to do something to somebody, wouldn't you take care not to leave anything? Especially maybe the weapon used to do it (the baton)??

I don't know, these two things are just plaguing my mind. Just is too weird.

--- MamaCat

Yeah, it certainly wasn't a "without a trace" abduction. But often real criminals aren't as good or bright as those that confound Sherlock Holmes. If you thoink about the logistics of abducting someone, AND their dog, managing your own dog and trying to get everything into the van and leave no trace, all very quickly, with adrenaline pumping, etc, it can't be easy. Lots of places to make mistakes - and thus be caught.

{bleep}

[Cuffs]

I carried an ASP for 12 years on the job, it can do some serious damage! and its also quite impressive just to have in your defense. goes from about 7in to almost 3 ft in 1/2 a second!

[Cuffs]

If a person is struggling to quiet another, do you really think they have the presence of mind to pay attention to all the details?

[RITBlake]

The dropped baton and sunglasses is a sticking point I keep thinking on too. Why drop the baton?

Imagine wrestling w/ someone while wearing your backpack. Chances are something, a map, a water bottle, a granola bar, something, will fall out.

Now add in the fact that you are trying to leave the scene as quickly as possible and the baton gets left behind. Its possible it fell out or he dropped it and he didnt realize/remember until it was too late.

[AlwaysHiking]

It happens, he was probably moving very quickly and was panicking a bit to get the hell out of there.


Except that he didn't get the heck out of the area. He could have been far far away by the time they found him but he was only within an hours drive.

Two things that don't make sense to me are why he would go around brandishing the supposed weapon for so many witnesses to identify him with and why he didn't get further away before getting rid of the evidence that is believed to have been dumped by him near where the dog was found.

If you're walking the woods looking for a victim, why do you select someone who so many whitnesses have seen you with?

Then again, maybe the criminal mind isn't supposed to make sense.

[Jan LiteShoe]

Imagine wrestling w/ someone while wearing your backpack. Chances are something, a map, a water bottle, a granola bar, something, will fall out.


Of course, you'd set your backpack down first thing upon reaching your vehicle.
Hiker reflex.

[Cuffs]

If you're walking the woods looking for a victim, why do you select someone who so many whitnesses have seen you with?

Then again, maybe the criminal mind isn't supposed to make sense.

Bundy used public parks/beaches packed with people as his hunting ground.

And you said it... the criminal mind doesnt think/analyze like we do/are...

[flagator]

even without tv and internet ... he should have been smart enough to book it, so basically if he did this he is an idiot. Forensics is just so advanced, anyone would know there gonna get caught if they dont move.

[RITBlake]

even without tv and internet ... he should have been smart enough to book it, so basically if he did this he is an idiot. Forensics is just so advanced, anyone would know there gonna get caught if they dont move.

maybe, but he wasn't. We're not dealing w/ a mastermind, we're dealing w/ some guy who slept in a van in a public park

[flagator]

Agreed. I think we can establish that the poi is not a mastermind, he did a terrible job covering his tracks.

[fishinfred]

This is so tragic and sad for ALL of us in the Hiking Community.I sit here in Mi. sickened with grief and sadness.I can't imagine what this girls family is going thru .I slept with the tv tuned to CNN and one ear opened hoping for a good report ...My Prayers and sympathy to the family in this horrible ordeal.

Skidsteer ,you mentioned running the FS roads ...this guy probably knows them all and has spent the past few days hiding out in the woods somewheres in his van between the Mt. and the dumpster where her stuff was found .Thats where I'd be looking if I could be down there right now .
Godspeed in finding Merideth! She is out there somewhere and if this creep won't talk ...Y'all need to keep looking w/ or without LE approval (hopefully with).Get the maps, setup some grids, and hit every FS road .I believe L.Wolf was right when he said they were not on the Mt . Its quite obvious now that this guy abducted her and took her somewheres in that van ...
Wish I could help too ...
Peace & Prayers to Merideths family and friends
Still HOPING!

[4eyedbuzzard]

true, he didn't go far, but he certainly got out of the immediate area in a hurry.

And to your second point, I dont think he went so far because it's very possible he didn't know the police were on to him. He didn't have TV, internet, etc.. it's very possible he thought he had gotten away w/ it and was just going through the motions of destroying evidence

I agree with the disposing of evidence part. I wouldn't assume he didn't have TV or internet access though - who knows? The dog and personal belonging don't show up until mid-afternoon Friday, but I doubt the dog wasted much time after being released to try to find food, water, and shelter. Two days unaccounted for. Big radius.

[Jan LiteShoe]

not if someone attaked you from behind though, you wouldnt have time to neatly set your backpack down, you'd be fighting for your life

Wasn't it GMH caryng the backpack?

[nitewalker]

The dropped baton and sunglasses is a sticking point I keep thinking on too. Why drop the baton?
Other questions: Was the sheath holding the baton? One report had it clipped to the belt. what was the sheath for then?
I never heard of an expandable baton, so I googled it. The first few sites sell all kinds of them, along with small tasers and the like. I did not know there were small hand-held tasers.


the taser theory already entered my mind i was just keeping low for awhile. it would be a very easy way to subdue her. no blood trace left behind..baton may have inadvertently got knocked out of its holder with hilton ever knowing until way later on after his panic/anxiety calmed some....

[4eyedbuzzard]

What blows my mind is that while sitting at the intersection of the Freeman and AT on the afternoon of the first my buddy and I saw 5 people in the span of a half hour, all of which were headed for or coming up from the parking area. This was probably around 3:30-4pm. Whenever he did it, he did it FAST.

Or waited in the woods for cover of darkness.

[flagator]

To me its strange that the dog is still around. Someone suggested he may have a passion for animals. I wonder if the black lab shows any signs of struggle, any sore spots or cuts. Seems like a trained dog like that would have had some response to her owner {being abducted or attacked}

[Almost There]

Does anyone know if the search went north of Neel's Gap, the scenic byway was closed on the 2nd, but there were cars using it throughout the day regardless. We actually got picked up by one at Hogpen Gap, but I was just thinking it would have been very possible for him to head that way depending on when he took off. Perhaps it's already been thought out.

[BMRisko]

I know water is low down there this time of year, but in some of the pictures it looked like there was a pretty good body of water along one of the roads...possibly a river or lake. I'm surprised to have seen no mention of search divers, but I speculate the LEOs are trying to get some more detailed info from GMH before going on a wild goose chase.

[Dances with Mice]

To me its strange that the dog is still around. Someone suggested he may have a passion for animals. I wonder if the black lab shows any signs of struggle, any sore spots or cuts. Seems like a trained dog like that would have had some response to her owner fighting for her life. He might have had to fight it off with the baton as well.A black lab is as good for protection as a rat terrier is good for pulling a dogsled.

[Almost There]

Or waited in the woods for cover of darkness.


It's possible, but I'll tell you what, it was windy as all get out even on the first, and once it started to get dark, it got cold real fast....him with the two dogs, and her, maybe he just took a chance and got away with it.

[Frolicking Dinosaurs]

Please refrain from speculating on what has happened to the missing hiker and how it may have happened. Until the facts are known, this is pruely speculation and hurtful to those who know and love the missing lady.

[flagator]

well they said a 400 sq mile radius was covered, surely that would cover some of the area north of neels. I know we are all looking like armchair detectives here, but im wondering if somehow he convinced her to go somewhere with her like a dogpark, put the dog in the van with his dog, shut the door, knocked meredith out cold and put her right in his van. that would be real quick. hopefully she was brighter than that, my am in such anxiety over this, I want so bad for her to be okay. Like someone said, hiking to me is one of the only innocent things left in the world, and now that has been corrupted by evil doers as well, it just disgusts me.

[cathleen]

When they found her wallet and things in the dumster...were any of her credit cards missing? ATM cards or things like that? I suppose that is something they wouldn't tell us?

[Darwin again]

Please refrain from speculating on what has happened to the missing hiker and how it may have happened. Until the facts are known, this is pruely speculation and hurtful to those who know and love the missing lady.

Just about every word posted here is speculative.
:confused:

[Almost There]

I know water is low down there this time of year, but in some of the pictures it looked like there was a pretty good body of water along one of the roads...possibly a river or lake. I'm surprised to have seen no mention of search divers, but I speculate the LEOs are trying to get some more detailed info from GMH before going on a wild goose chase.


Water was plentiful along the Freeman Trail on the first, remember there was two days worth of rain earlier in the week. As for the large body of water, there is a lake in Vogel State Park, could be the lake your constantly seeing in footage. That all being said, he would really have to be off his rocker to dump a body in a lake in the middle of a state park.

[Darwin again]

Please refrain from speculating on what has happened to the missing hiker and how it may have happened. Until the facts are known, this is pruely speculation and hurtful to those who know and love the missing lady.

Why are you supressing honest, open discussion?

[flagator]

Sorry Dino, i didnt see your post prior. I agree , all of it is all speculation and nothing more. I think we know that and are just trying to figure out all the possibilities out there, because it just eats at us, and disgusts us.

[Almost There]

Why are you supressing honest, open discussion?


She's not, Dino just has a great big heart and is worried about hurting someone on WB that might know the young lady.

[BMRisko]

well they said a 400 sq mile radius was covered, surely that would cover some of the area north of neels. I know we are all looking like armchair detectives here, but im wondering if somehow he convinced her to go somewhere with her like a dogpark, put the dog in the van with his dog, shut the door, knocked meredith out cold and put her right in his van. that would be real quick. hopefully she was brighter than that, my am in such anxiety over this, I want so bad for her to be okay. Like someone said, hiking to me is one of the only innocent things left in the world, and now that has been corrupted by evil doers as well, it just disgusts me.

Thats what crossed my mind as well...no one has mentioned whether her car would start or not. Could have easily befriended her during the day, which it appears like he did from witnesses and then conveniently offered her a ride. I'm hoping she was smarter than that and it really does no good to speculate. Just so many possibilities and what ifs? It's so hard to predict how anyone is going to react in any given situation. All I can do is pray for her to be found safe.

[Flotsam]

Frolicking Dinosaurs, can you post a link to the photo of the van that you studied, the one showing the missing carpet, aluminum cans, etc? Or could you upload yours somehwere?

[4eyedbuzzard]

Thats what crossed my mind as well...no one has mentioned whether her car would start or not. Could have easily befriended her during the day, which it appears like he did from witnesses and then conveniently offered her a ride. I'm hoping she was smarter than that and it really does no good to speculate. Just so many possibilities and what ifs? It's so hard to predict how anyone is going to react in any given situation. All I can do is pray for her to be found safe.

Yeah, easy enough to disable a car, then offer someone a ride when it won't start.

[MOWGLI]

Why are you supressing honest, open discussion?

This is a public forum where some of Meridith's friends have already visited. You can have discussion while being respectful of Meridith's friends and family. As I read it, FD is simply reminding us to allow respect to be our guiding principle. Anyway, speculation isn't honest. It's.... speculation. Let's leave that to the detectives.

[cathleen]

Also..i was wondering....if he threw the wallet away in the dumpster...why not all the other stuff he had in the car....on the news..his car was amess..alot of garbage....maybe because his garbage had his dna on it..and he didn't want to connect the two...none of this makes sense to me..on one hand he can be smart and on another very unorganized?

[Frosty]

Lewis was charged with murder...not for not cooperatingYes, exactly. That's what I said. The cops knew Ray Lewis wasn't guilty - they knew it was Oakley and Sweeting - but Lewis wouldn't cooperate. They charged Lewis with murder along with Oakley and Sweeting, and suddenly he was cooperating, as would any sane person. He pled down to obstruction of justice and testified.

That was what I was trying to get across the first time, that if you don't cooperate you may find yourself charged with the crime yourself. If the POI is innocent and doesn't cooperate, he will be charged and go to court. In the process of clearing himself, he will give the police what they wanted to know in the first place. Why spend months or years in jail for nothing?

If he is guilty, of course. he is smart to keep his mouth shut.

It was a long time ago, but the New Bedford guy was going to be held until he talked. Lots of heated talk about it at the time. I was 25 then, and I found it an outrageous abuse of power by the courts. Now, at 60, I feel that justice is better served by what happened. YMMV.

[BMRisko]

Whats with all the blank replies? Are those ones that have been deleted by moderators? Not being sarcastic, just curious...

[Frolicking Dinosaurs]

Why are you supressing honest, open discussion?
Please refrain from speculating on what has happened to the missing hiker and how it may have happened. Until the facts are known, this is pruely speculation and hurtful to those who know and love the missing lady.
Enough said.

[BMRisko]

But, did we hear a report of her car not starting?

I have not seen it covered anywhere, which was why I was wondering.

[HappyGoLucky]

Its quite obvious now that this guy abducted her and took her somewheres in that van ...

I'm partly hoping this is the case and that she was being held captive in reasonable health near where Hilton was picked up, can survive awhile, and that it's 'just' a matter of finding her. It seems like it's one of the best chances of her being alive. I haven't seen the possibility of her being held mentioned anywhere, is there a reason to dismiss the idea?

I've been thinking about this since I learned of it Thursday night. I hope the combined search efforts and concern of hundreds of people are bringing some comfort to Meredith's family and friends. Personally, this brings back bad memories of a SAR mission that did not have a happy ending and I'm praying this one is different.

[Frolicking Dinosaurs]

Whats with all the blank replies? Are those ones that have been deleted by moderators? Not being sarcastic, just curious...Yes, they contained speculation about the fate of the missing lady, her current whereabouts or theories about what happened to her.

[RITBlake]

There's not a whole left to speculate about. Bad things have happened.

Speculation is a natural defensive reaction for people in this type of situation. Trying to understand the situation is our way of regaining our sense of personal control of a situation. It's actually a healthy response.

[BMRisko]

Yes, they contained speculation about the fate of the missing lady, her current whereabouts or theories about what happened to her.

OK, so what are we supposed to talk about then? :confused: Too bad WebSlueths is not up currently...

[Almost There]

FD,

You should just close this thread, all that's gonna happen from here is speculation.

[Frosty]

Ok, so the guy who had the "weird" feeling... that found the "pile of items"... that took Hiltons Van tag number... How did he know which car tag to remember? I am assuming that there were even more cars there as it has been reported that several others saw Meredith and Hilton as well... just a weird feeling I have.I was under the impression that he wrote the number down, and assumed he wrote them all down. I've done that before when I thought something was odd on the trail. The police could quickly check them all and come up with the one they want.

[HikerRanky]

A black lab is as good for protection as a rat terrier is good for pulling a dogsled.

Having owned the following breeds of dogs ( Labrador Retriever, Collie, and German Shepherds), I can tell you that all of these breeds have a sense of protection towards their owners.

Randy

[HappyGoLucky]

Yes, they contained speculation about the fate of the missing lady, her current whereabouts or theories about what happened to her.

I guess mine did too, but I was trying to focus on a scenario that could produce a happy ending. Definitely not trying to be disrespectful, apologies if it came across that way.

[Frolicking Dinosaurs]

Locked down - a new thread will appear in straight forwar for sharing new info from news sources only.