View Full Version : Trail transients
In light of what happened at Blood Mtn. and what's happened in the past- How do you feel about the obvious hobos on the trail(I know, I know, sometimes thru-hikers look like bums)? I don't like them at all probably because I had to chase one off before. I was at the Peter's Mtn. shelter in PA and I had to go to the spring. I came back up the hill and here was this hobo digging through my stuff. I started yelling at him and I chased him off. Needless to say, I didn't really sleep that well than night being worried he was going to come back.
I really don't trust them at all and more than once I've passed up staying in an area because of them. I realize the trail is for everyone so this is kind of a mix of emotions and ideas for me.
So have any of you had any run-ins with them? How do you handle them?
River Runner
01-04-2008, 03:44
We heard (from a couple of sources) that there was a homeless person staying at Rock Gap shelter near Franklin when we were section hiking that area in early November. We made sure not to stop, so I guess my answer is that I avoid them when possible.
Fortunately I haven't had any other incidents.
The Mechanical Man
01-04-2008, 03:47
In light of what happened at Blood Mtn. and what's happened in the past- How do you feel about the obvious hobos on the trail(I know, I know, sometimes thru-hikers look like bums)? I don't like them at all probably because I had to chase one off before. I was at the Peter's Mtn. shelter in PA and I had to go to the spring. I came back up the hill and here was this hobo digging through my stuff. I started yelling at him and I chased him off. Needless to say, I didn't really sleep that well than night being worried he was going to come back.
I really don't trust them at all and more than once I've passed up staying in an area because of them. I realize the trail is for everyone so this is kind of a mix of emotions and ideas for me.
So have any of you had any run-ins with them? How do you handle them?
Sounds like you are talking about a Black Bear, are your sure it was a transient and not a hiker, or just a bear?
Haven't ever had an incident, but then I've always been a bit paranoid about staying in shelters near towns or roads. Don't know why, I just am. So I avoid them and try to find a campsite instead.
Sounds like you are talking about a Black Bear, are your sure it was a transient and not a hiker, or just a bear?
Ummm, seeing as it was a filthy caucasian male who(I'm 99% sure) took a couple of my batteries(again, I may have misplaced them) I'm going to say it wasn't a bear. And I don't care if it was a "normal" hiker anyway, you don't dig through people's packs.
Ummm, seeing as it was a filthy caucasian male who(I'm 99% sure) took a couple of my batteries(again, I may have misplaced them) I'm going to say it wasn't a bear. And I don't care if it was a "normal" hiker anyway, you don't dig through people's packs.
"I started yelling at him and I chased him off."
Haha, I get the black bear part now...
Lone Wolf
01-04-2008, 06:46
In light of what happened at Blood Mtn. and what's happened in the past- How do you feel about the obvious hobos on the trail(I know, I know, sometimes thru-hikers look like bums)? I don't like them at all probably because I had to chase one off before. I was at the Peter's Mtn. shelter in PA and I had to go to the spring. I came back up the hill and here was this hobo digging through my stuff. I started yelling at him and I chased him off. Needless to say, I didn't really sleep that well than night being worried he was going to come back.
I really don't trust them at all and more than once I've passed up staying in an area because of them. I realize the trail is for everyone so this is kind of a mix of emotions and ideas for me.
So have any of you had any run-ins with them? How do you handle them?
every year "these types" roll into Damascus and squat at The Place hostel. most are harmless but some are real lowlifes that will rip you off blind.
NorthCountryWoods
01-04-2008, 06:57
Most transients try to fly under the radar. They will take advantage on an opportunity, but like to avoid trouble if possible.
Did they say the POI in that missing hiker case is homeless?
every year "these types" roll into Damascus and squat at The Place hostel. most are harmless but some are real lowlifes that will rip you off blind.I second that opinion.........
Haven't ever had an incident, but then I've always been a bit paranoid about staying in shelters near towns or roads. Don't know why, I just am. So I avoid them and try to find a campsite instead.
I ran into someone at a shelter in CT last winter who carried his stuff in a garbage bag and appeared to be hanging out. His stuff did not include any real camping gear, so I did not stay for a snack as planned. He asked for food, but I did not feel comfortable around him, so I moved on without offering him any. I was looking over my shoulder for a good mile afterwards.
AlwaysHiking
01-04-2008, 07:43
It's not wildlife I worry about on the trail; it’s locals. Anytime I stay at a shelter with obvious signs of frequent use by the locals - beer cans, trash strewn about in general, an overwhelming amount of vulgar graffiti, questionable water source, etc... - I never get a good night's sleep.
In contrast, in the middle of a wilderness with signs of bear scat everywhere, I sleep like a baby.
I ran into someone at a shelter in CT last winter who carried his stuff in a garbage bag and appeared to be hanging out. His stuff did not include any real camping gear, so I did not stay for a snack as planned. He asked for food, but I did not feel comfortable around him, so I moved on without offering him any. I was looking over my shoulder for a good mile afterwards.
I don't see why you could not have given him a candy bar or a small cracker at least?
Lone Wolf
01-04-2008, 07:47
I don't see why you could not have given him a candy bar or a small cracker at least?
why? give an inch they'll take a mile in most cases.
I agree and disagree with that. Most homeless people are not out to get a mile from anyone. There are some though..............
why? give an inch they'll take a mile in most cases.
Exactly. No need to encourage this kind of behavior.
Lone Wolf
01-04-2008, 07:52
I agree and disagree with that. Most homeless people are not out to get a mile from anyone. There are some though..............
the ones i've seen in this town seek hand outs. ever since the food bank opened they flock like stray cats for freebies. same for folks WITH homes. they drive up in new cars getting boxes of free food
AT-HITMAN2005
01-04-2008, 07:53
1 night a shelter a guy asked for food, so i gave up some gorp. came back from getting water, and my companions said he was complaining about people always giving him gorp when he asked for food.
Okay Wolf, I'm not going to get into this bs about the bad points of all these bad homeless people.
Think about this for a moment. Your out there on the trail and you ran out food. You ask someone for a bite and they walk away from you.
I think I know you good enough to know that you would give someone a snack whether you like what you see or not. You would also know how to say "no."
NorthCountryWoods
01-04-2008, 08:07
Think about this for a moment. Your out there on the trail and you ran out food. You ask someone for a bite and they walk away from you.
....and next time you'd carry extra.
Self sufficiency lesson learned.
Lone Wolf
01-04-2008, 08:10
....and next time you'd carry extra.
Self sufficiency lesson learned.
yup. or keep looking for handouts forever. these guys know how to play the game. they work the system big time
take-a-knee
01-04-2008, 08:30
the ones i've seen in this town seek hand outs. ever since the food bank opened they flock like stray cats for freebies. same for folks WITH homes. they drive up in new cars getting boxes of free food
I WANT MY FREE CHEESE! THE GUVMENT OWES ME!
CoyoteWhips
01-04-2008, 08:47
I WANT MY FREE CHEESE! THE GUVMENT OWES ME!
I've seen what they give out. That's not really cheese.
I think what is needed is a government program to outfit hobos with sufficient wicking layers, trail runners, sturdy packs with appropriate gear and resupply points along remote trails for nutritional dehydrated agricultural surplus. The one provision is that they have to share food with hikers if they ask and volunteer for trail maintenance one weekend a month, two weeks a year.
See how they like it.
yup. or keep looking for handouts forever. these guys know how to play the game. they work the system big time
And I agree with that to a point. But I think you need to keep in mind that not every person who is down and out are out to use you.
For instance, let me tell you about someone I helped not too long ago here in the community. In fact I had to reach into my pocket a little and I also paid him to shuttle me to the flea market.
Yesterday, and Terry was here when this happened, he comes in and hands me some money and even buys some merchandise. I insisted that I did not need the money because I helped him with no expectations of him returning it. But he insisted so I took it.
He'd gotten a job and got on his feet and is moving on.
Then another homeless person that has been hanging out on the trail around here for a year or so only wants to work when he comes to town. He does go to the food bank. And if this guy has only a penny to his name he won't ask for anything from you but he will ask for work and let me tell you something, the boy knows how to work. In fact you know all of the work was done up over at Agusta's B&B on the yard? He did that and it was a darn good job.
I cannot look at every homeless person I run into and make a judgement call. And I cannot make a judgement call on everyone that has some kind of financial problem or who is obviously poorer than I am because I had an experience with a few bad apples.
I am a person who has had to have help. I use to go to the food bank and sometimes I still do. But I know I am not out to use anyone. And since I am not out to use and abuse then there has got to be others like me as well which from my experience seems to be about half of the whole.
I say give someone a chance before you make the call, you may get surprised and someday down the road you will realize there is nothing wrong with feeding someone.
the ones i've seen in this town seek hand outs. ever since the food bank opened they flock like stray cats for freebies. same for folks WITH homes. they drive up in new cars getting boxes of free food
When I was volunteering in Mississippi after Katrina our distribution center got a flatbed 18 wheeler trailer full of black beans in. Nobody wanted them. When we got in a truck with variety it was gone immediatly. Most of the people that came and got our free stuff didn't need it. Later on we helped some folks gut out their house and they had hoarded all kinds of things and were throwing it all to the road just because things got wet in a rainstorm. Most of the stuff was sealed in plastic bags and still good. I grabbed about ten cases of MREs that they were putting to the curb to take back to the camp. The folks that needed food would take them but the bums stayed away from MREs. We did a halfass job at the house becuase the family stood around watching us not even helping. I figured that we got paid in MREs for that job. Those days sucked, but there were folks like this man named Chris. He had been tearing his house apart for a couple of months by himself and we took a team out there and helped him finish the other half of the house in a couple of days. He was up on the rubble and swinging a sledge hammer leading and leading by example. We saw that job to completion. Some folks are worth the effort and some are not, but if I had not helped the dirtbags then I would have never been able to help good people like Chris.
I'd throw out MREs too... :D
take-a-knee
01-04-2008, 09:01
I've seen what they give out. That's not really cheese.
I think what is needed is a government program to outfit hobos with sufficient wicking layers, trail runners, sturdy packs with appropriate gear and resupply points along remote trails for nutritional dehydrated agricultural surplus. The one provision is that they have to share food with hikers if they ask and volunteer for trail maintenance one weekend a month, two weeks a year.
See how they like it.
<bleep>
A friend of mine is a remodeling contractor in the Atlanta area. He always has job sites that need to be cleaned up. He has stopped and offered $10 bucks/hr to countless people holding "Will work for food" signs. He has yet to have anyone accept his offer for work. If people like that starve or freeze, I don't care.
I'd throw out MREs too... :D
Send them to me, I'll take them. They've gotten better in the last few years. And you can't beat the little bottles of tabasco.
Some folks are worth the effort and some are not, but if I had not helped the dirtbags then I would have never been able to help good people like Chris.
Right on! That's what I'm talking about! Good statement!:clap
I don't see why you could not have given him a candy bar or a small cracker at least?
That's just as if you were to give something to the wildlife.
"Don't Feed the Wildlife"
Rush Limbaugh calls these guys "Urban Outdoorsmen".
A friend of mine is a remodeling contractor in the Atlanta area. He always has job sites that need to be cleaned up. He has stopped and offered $10 bucks/hr to countless people holding "Will work for food" signs. He has yet to have anyone accept his offer for work. If people like that starve or freeze, I don't care.
When I was in Alabama I offered work to a few of these chaps and about some of them came and worked their tails off.
That's just as if you were to give something to the wildlife.
"Don't Feed the Wildlife"
Good point there.............................:D
NorthCountryWoods
01-04-2008, 09:08
And I agree with that to a point. But I think you need to keep in mind that not every person who is down and out are out to use you.
For instance, let me tell you about someone I helped not too long ago here in the community. In fact I had to reach into my pocket a little and I also paid him to shuttle me to the flea market.
Yesterday, and Terry was here when this happened, he comes in and hands me some money and even buys some merchandise. I insisted that I did not need the money because I helped him with no expectations of him returning it. But he insisted so I took it.
He'd gotten a job and got on his feet and is moving on.
Then another homeless person that has been hanging out on the trail around here for a year or so only wants to work when he comes to town. He does go to the food bank. And if this guy has only a penny to his name he won't ask for anything from you but he will ask for work and let me tell you something, the boy knows how to work. In fact you know all of the work was done up over at Agusta's B&B on the yard? He did that and it was a darn good job.
I cannot look at every homeless person I run into and make a judgement call. And I cannot make a judgement call on everyone that has some kind of financial problem or who is obviously poorer than I am because I had an experience with a few bad apples.
I am a person who has had to have help. I use to go to the food bank and sometimes I still do. But I know I am not out to use anyone. And since I am not out to use and abuse then there has got to be others like me as well which from my experience seems to be about half of the whole.
I say give someone a chance before you make the call, you may get surprised and someday down the road you will realize there is nothing wrong with feeding someone.
What a feel good story. :sun
Now I don't have to think twice about feeding the tweeker that slept in my shed, broke the window on my back porch and sh@t on the floor. He was really a great guy.:rolleyes:
I've seen what they give out. That's not really cheese.
I think what is needed is a government program to outfit hobos with sufficient wicking layers, trail runners, sturdy packs with appropriate gear and resupply points along remote trails for nutritional dehydrated agricultural surplus. The one provision is that they have to share food with hikers if they ask and volunteer for trail maintenance one weekend a month, two weeks a year.
See how they like it.
Government Program.
What's wrong with that picture?
What a feel good story. :sun
Now I don't have to think twice about feeding the tweeker that slept in my shed, broke the window on my back porch and sh@t on the floor. He was really a great guy.:rolleyes:
Your out of your cotton pickin mind pal. But just because you had someone do that it's okay to assume that every homeless person is a dirtbag then right?:rolleyes:
Gut of course you did not say they were homeless:confused:
I'd throw out MREs too... :D
Have you ever, truely been...down and out...?
In your life?
4eyedbuzzard
01-04-2008, 09:14
Guy quits his job, sells his stuff, and goes thru-hiking. Is he a noble hiker or trail vagrant? Very little difference in a legal sense between him and a homeless guy cause neither has any visible means of support. Not saying you can't tell the difference after determining intent, perhaps figuring out his checking account balance, or verifying that parents are footing the bill, but its hard to keep bums off the trail if they want to be there. The biggest difference obviously is the next day the hiker is 15 miles down the trail and the vagrant is holed up in the same shelter 'till he gets booted by rangers/LEO.
dessertrat
01-04-2008, 09:21
I came back up the hill and here was this hobo digging through my stuff.
I really don't trust them at all and more than once I've passed up staying in an area because of them. I realize the trail is for everyone so this is kind of a mix of emotions and ideas for me.
So have any of you had any run-ins with them? How do you handle them?
Finding someone digging through your pack is not something you need to have mixed emotions about. He's a common criminal. (And no, he's not like a black bear, as someone said-- a bear is not blameworthy for going through your pack, because he isn't a human being and is not bound by any social contract).
I have pretty strong feelings about panhandlers. I was homeless once, for a few weeks, many years ago. I was only homeless for a few weeks because I got a job and saved up some money, and rented a room as soon as I could. I then saved some more money and got an apartment, and so on.
People can go ahead and be homeless if they want to, but they don't need to make it my problem. I often have to tell homeless people to leave the hallway of my apartment building when it's cold outside. I feel no guilt about it, and when they try to make me feel guilty, or to B.S. me about someone giving them permission to stay there (and they almost invariably do one or the other) I feel no guilt in laying into them verbally and telling them I'm going to have them locked up.
dessertrat
01-04-2008, 09:26
Have you ever, truely been...down and out...?
In your life?
Yes, more than once. There are missions and shelters that will help people get drug and alcohol treatment, feed people, give them a bed (granted that sometimes fails when the weather is bad), help them get presentable clothing and a job. Some people get the meal and the occasional bed, but run like heck from the drug and alcohol treatment and the job. No sympathy for those people.
Those who are bona fide disabled, however, get plenty of sympathy from me.
CoyoteWhips
01-04-2008, 09:33
Government Program.
What's wrong with that picture?
Didn't think the Baptists would go for it.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
01-04-2008, 09:40
Knock off the political stuff guys - y'all know the what the TOS says
NorthCountryWoods
01-04-2008, 09:41
Your out of your cotton pickin mind pal. But just because you had someone do that it's okay to assume that every homeless person is a dirtbag then right?:rolleyes:
Didn't say that and I've never picked cotton. I was responding to this-
I cannot look at every homeless person I run into and make a judgement call. And I cannot make a judgement call on everyone that has some kind of financial problem or who is obviously poorer than I am because I had an experience with a few bad apples.
Just because you cannot make a judgement call doesn't mean the rest of the world shouldn't. Especially when you are alone on a trail with a person begging for food. Desperation does not promote rational thinking.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
01-04-2008, 09:45
Did they say the POI in that missing hiker case is homeless?The POI owns two white vans and has an active driver's license -- if he is homeless, he is not your typical homeless person.
Have you ever, truely been...down and out...?
In your life?
Thank g*d never so much that I'd willingly eat another MRE. Things could change, of course. Let's not go there. :eek:
Didn't say that and I've never picked cotton. I was responding to this-
Just because you cannot make a judgement call doesn't mean the rest of the world shouldn't. Especially when you are alone on a trail with a person begging for food. Desperation does not promote rational thinking.
I'm not saying that everyone else has to treat this the way I would. But I am saying that you should give it some thought and don't jump to conclusions.
I know one thing. The homeless situation is not going to go away, in fact it is probably going to get a whole lot worse. And there will always be hungry people and some of them are not homeless.
In fact, why don't you make yourself feel good today. Go someplace and feed someone you think might be hungrey for a real good meal. And feed them good too! And don't expect a thing in return...........:banana
NorthCountryWoods
01-04-2008, 09:58
In fact, why don't you make yourself feel good today. Go someplace and feed someone you think might be hungrey for a real good meal. And feed them good too! And don't expect a thing in return...........:banana
Cept the gratification of feeling superior to those on the internet by bragging about it, right?:rolleyes:
In fact, why don't you make yourself feel good today.....go someplace and do something selfless.....and don't tell anybody about it!:banana
Darwin again
01-04-2008, 09:58
... I was at the Peter's Mtn. shelter in PA and I had to go to the spring. I came back up the hill ...
The trip to the spring off Peters Mtn. must be one of the biggest, hardest, steepest on the AT -- I'm not surprised you were hallucinating bears or people or whatever!:rolleyes:
Darwin again
01-04-2008, 10:02
This need not become a discussion of wether homless people are to blame for their situation. Belive it or not, stuff happens. Anyone see the movie "Reign Ove Me (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0490204/)"? Stuff happens to people. Not eveyone responds the same to stressors. Nobody can know what these people have been through.
There, but for the grace, etc...
Lone Wolf
01-04-2008, 10:05
Then another homeless person that has been hanging out on the trail around here for a year or so only wants to work when he comes to town. He does go to the food bank. And if this guy has only a penny to his name he won't ask for anything from you but he will ask for work and let me tell you something, the boy knows how to work. In fact you know all of the work was done up over at Agusta's B&B on the yard? He did that and it was a darn good job.
if he's such a good worker why doesn't he get a job? he's proven capable. he CHOOSES to live in the woods. the food bank should be for the truly needy. he doesn't strike as such. it seems the all the "homeless"/drifter/transient types around here are GROWN men. you never see women and children
if he's such a good worker why doesn't he get a job? he's proven capable. he CHOOSES to live in the woods. the food bank should be for the truly needy. he doesn't strike as such. it seems the all the "homeless"/drifter/transient types around here are GROWN men. you never see women and children
Which just goes to show... uh... what, exactly? :-?
Cept the gratification of feeling superior to those on the internet by bragging about it, right?:rolleyes:
In fact, why don't you make yourself feel good today.....go someplace and do something selfless.....and don't tell anybody about it!:banana
Everytime someone like you shoots their trap off it just makes me want to get on here and razzle your feathers. And it's working too..............
This need not become a discussion of wether homless people are to blame for their situation. Belive it or not, stuff happens. Anyone see the movie "Reign Ove Me (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0490204/)"? Stuff happens to people. Not eveyone responds the same to stressors. Nobody can know what these people have been through.
There, but for the grace, etc...
That's a good point...................;)
Lone Wolf
01-04-2008, 10:11
Which just goes to show... uh... what, exactly? :-?
you tell me, scooter. i have my theories
Johnny Thunder
01-04-2008, 10:17
"Change...change..."
if he's such a good worker why doesn't he get a job? he's proven capable. he CHOOSES to live in the woods. the food bank should be for the truly needy. he doesn't strike as such. it seems the all the "homeless"/drifter/transient types around here are GROWN men. you never see women and children
I'll have to defend this guy, this guy is definetly mentally disabled. I've been in contact with his family.
You are probably not going to buy this, but this guy was married once and I think there is a child or two also. As his father put it he was kind of a crazy guy anyway. He had a tree business down in Asheville that was fairly successfull. Then one day he has a bad car wreck that put him in a coma for awhile from head injuries. He comes out of the coma and heals up but never fully recovers. After awhile his wife leaves him along with the kids. He is able to keep his business going and then one day it happens again. Bad wreck, head injuries, coma, recovers, loses business, starts wandering.
And that is the truth about this guy.
Jim Adams
01-04-2008, 10:36
Rock on LW!
I have been down before, not totally homeless thanks to friends but very close.
Work is available. Obviously they have time on their hands and libraries are free to further educate themselves about anything that may make their life better.
There are government funded programs for working that isn't a hand-out.
The first day that a person is in this down and out situation they may be hungry, they may be cold, they may be moneyless.
The second day that they are like this, they are just being lazy and / or lack ambition.
Come on...even a slack packer may have someone else carry his pack but he still makes the miles.
BTW, when I was racing for a living I had a bumper sticker on my van that said "will race for food".
geek
Darwin again
01-04-2008, 11:10
Plus, about 23 percent of all homeless AMERICANS are veterans (http://www.nchv.org/background.cfm).
Way to pay 'em back! :confused:
Some Homeless Persons are alot like thru-hikers some seek entitlement and some are truly grateful for any act of kindness. Me, I'll try to be part of the kindness, nicer people there!
Some Homeless Persons are alot like thru-hikers some seek entitlement and some are truly grateful for any act of kindness. Me, I'll try to be part of the kindness, nicer people there!
Right on MRC!
Frolicking Dinosaurs
01-04-2008, 11:19
You are probably not going to buy this, but this guy was married once and I think there is a child or two also. As his father put it he was kind of a crazy guy anyway. He had a tree business down in Asheville that was fairly successfull. Then one day he has a bad car wreck that put him in a coma for awhile from head injuries. He comes out of the coma and heals up but never fully recovers. After awhile his wife leaves him along with the kids. He is able to keep his business going and then one day it happens again. Bad wreck, head injuries, coma, recovers, loses business, starts wandering.
And that is the truth about this guy.My closest friend growing up had the same thing happen. He fell off of Sunset Rock in Chattanooga and had massive head injuries. I haven't seen him in a number of years.
He went nuts once while I was checking in on him and attempted to kill one of my children. He's not a bad person, but that doesn't mean he's not dangerous in his present condition.
johnny quest
01-04-2008, 11:21
a little story.
my boss is a very liberal guy. he brought a "homeless" guy from austin to our town, instructed our gm to find him a job in the warehouse. we put him in a motel till we could get him into one of those subsidized apt.s. gave him a nice bike to ride to work. he is polite, shows up and everything, but is really the most menial of employees. then one day he informs the gm he wont be there tomorrow. he has hired on with a plumber for more money. no 2 week notice, nothing. monday comes and he is there at work. what happened? he got in an argument with the plumber.
now, we have never and would never put up with that kind of treatment from anyone else. but because he is a "homeless guy" that the owner brought in we took him back.
My closest friend growing up had the same thing happen. He wfell off of Sunset Rock in Chattanooga and had massive head injuried. I haven't seen him in a number of years.
He went nuts once while I was checking in on him and attempted to kill one of my children. He's not a bad person, but that doesn't mean he's not dangerous in his present condition.
Yikes! I hope your child was not seriously injured. And I hope your friend got the professional help he obviously needs.
He went nuts once while I was checking in on him and attempted to kill one of my children. He's not a bad person, but that doesn't mean he's not dangerous in his present condition.
As is the case with this chap.
I had him stay with me once and to say the least I had to show him the door in a not so lightly way. He still drops in every now and then though.
But he doesn't stay but for a moment or two..........
I haven't had any problems with " homeless people ' while out but i have had run ins with wierdos... scary SCARY people. The AT crosses so many busy rds. That is where I seem to run into nuts. I just get across ( have sometimes though stepped behind trees or bailed down embankments before they see me ) and keep hiking. i rarely camp by a highway. The philosophy of alot of thrus is get close to town .. then hike in in the morning and have a nero... i have done that but more and more i am just hiking in and spending 2 days in town, especially if i am by myself.
a little story.
my boss is a very liberal guy. he brought a "homeless" guy from austin to our town, instructed our gm to find him a job in the warehouse. we put him in a motel till we could get him into one of those subsidized apt.s. gave him a nice bike to ride to work. he is polite, shows up and everything, but is really the most menial of employees. then one day he informs the gm he wont be there tomorrow. he has hired on with a plumber for more money. no 2 week notice, nothing. monday comes and he is there at work. what happened? he got in an argument with the plumber.
now, we have never and would never put up with that kind of treatment from anyone else. but because he is a "homeless guy" that the owner brought in we took him back.
You're Boss is a kind person. :)
Lone Wolf
01-04-2008, 11:46
i feed 3 homeless cats
i feed 3 homeless cats
What are their trail names?
johnny quest
01-04-2008, 11:56
You're Boss is a kind person. :)
he is very kind. he has a good heart. he has the bet of intentions. but he doesnt understand why someone that we helped would be ungrateful and disloyal. the fact is you cant make someone stand up on their feet.
he is very kind. he has a good heart. he has the bet of intentions. but he doesnt understand why someone that we helped would be ungrateful and disloyal. the fact is you cant make someone stand up on their feet.
No you can't. But if they ever do get to standing you'll always be remembered for the kindness you had shown them and they are liable to pass it along.
Even though Lone Wolf comes across as being against some of these people he sure was there when I was down and out. He was one of them who was helping me back to my feet, and Gypsy too. I'll never forget him, her, and the many others who have helped me.
Awesome stuff I tell you. You just don't know what kind of effect that your going to have on someone when you reach out a helping hand. And talk about making you feel good, whew!
You'll come to realize it ain't about you either, it's just the right thing to do.........
johnny quest
01-04-2008, 12:15
perhaps the advice of the great chesty puller would be appropriate.
"never give a bum a third chance"
scavenger
01-04-2008, 12:18
I'd much rather be in the company of certain homeless folks than certain hikers... Just sayin...
What are their trail names?
Mo, Larry, and Curly..................
Pedaling Fool
01-04-2008, 12:20
perhaps the advice of the great chesty puller would be appropriate.
"never give a bum a third chance"
http://navysite.de/ffg/FFG23.HTM
Lone Wolf
01-04-2008, 12:26
What are their trail names?
Pearl, Browns, Squeaker
When I thru-hiked in 1999, I don't recall ever meeting anyone who was homeless, on the trail or in town.
Is this something new? Hoping Lone Wolf or some of the others who have been out there often over several years can give me some insight......
Frolicking Dinosaurs
01-04-2008, 12:35
Yikes! I hope your child was not seriously injured. And I hope your friend got the professional help he obviously needs.I had him arrested and explained the situation to the jail who transferred him to a mental hospital for a 30 day involuntary stay. His mother thanked me later for taking the actions she just didn't have the heart to take (after she gave me a proper cussing when it first happened)
i feed 3 homeless cats
Pearl, Browns, SqueakerYou're a big ol' softy ;). Hug Gypsy for me.
Pedaling Fool
01-04-2008, 12:36
I don't know if it's new, but I saw my fair share in '06, I also remember, a little prior to '06, seeing a homeless family staying at Pass Mtn shelter; some crazy people.
envirodiver
01-04-2008, 12:36
There are differences in homeless people. There are the mentally challenged people that an institution has decided is "cured" they open the door and push them through. There are families that are down and out, and there are bums, that just don't want to work. Ever try to give one of these guys with "will work for food" signs some food? They usually don't want it, they usually want money for alcohol or drugs and they sure don't want to work. The ones that anger me are the ones holding a sign that says they are a Vet. That is a slap in the face of the War Vets that are out there.
People that are trying deserve a chance, children should never be in a homeless situation because they have no choice.
Bums that don't want to work and just want hand-outs can go fly a kite. I have no sympathy for those.
Friends or family that are down on their luck can have the shirt off my back.
There's just a big difference and can't lump all homeless people into one barrel.
Just a Hiker
01-04-2008, 12:42
I am done.
Pedaling Fool
01-04-2008, 12:50
There are differences in homeless people....
This is absolutley true. The one's I've seen and generally describe as "homeless" fall into the "Bums" catagory (including the Family I saw). As far as the "metally challenged", that's not so easy to judge, who's to say even the "bums" don't fall into this category, not just the seemingly obvious cases. It's an area, mental health, we (science) don't understand too well yet, but I really don't care when it comes to my, or other hikers, safety. I'm not going to feel sorry about them, I'll just be concerned about my/others safety.
The one's "down on their luck" I've never seen on the trail and if I did I would feel very compelled to help in any way I could, as I'm sure many would.
4eyedbuzzard
01-04-2008, 13:07
If you're "down on your luck" you sure as heck aren't gonna find what you need to get "up on your luck" on the AT. Haven't seen a help wanted ad yet in a trail register.
You'll come to realize it ain't about you either, it's just the right thing to do.........
Uhhh, I disagree with this. Basically under this principle:
-Don't Take Anything Personally
Nothing others do is because of you. What others say and do is a projection of their own reality, their own dream. When you are immune to the opinions and actions of others, you won't be the victim of needless suffering.
That's part of an american indian tradition called Toltec.
In reality, your actions are a reflection of how you feel that day and where you are at that time. So you may want to help everyone, but if you're in a situation where you don't feel comfortable with or if you just are pissed at the world and don't wanna help that homeless guy, then you're not going to help them and that's just how it is. If you have the presence of mind to reason through things and make a judgement call, then good for you. Or if you feel particularly generous but there are no homeless folks around, someone else might be the recipient of your kindness, it all just depends.
On the up-side if someone is feeling particularly generous with nobody to help...if his stories are any indication, TOW seems to have an incredible network of friendly, happy, down on their luck vagabonds that are willing to work, helpful, grateful, and will make you feel good!
If you're "down on your luck" you sure as heck aren't gonna find what you need to get "up on your luck" on the AT. Haven't seen a help wanted ad yet in a trail register.
You must not have seen my trail register ad for a sherpa. ;)
4eyedbuzzard
01-04-2008, 13:14
:datz :(
Tipi Walter
01-04-2008, 13:14
There are differences in homeless people. There are the mentally challenged people that an institution has decided is "cured" they open the door and push them through. There are families that are down and out, and there are bums, that just don't want to work. Ever try to give one of these guys with "will work for food" signs some food? They usually don't want it, they usually want money for alcohol or drugs and they sure don't want to work. The ones that anger me are the ones holding a sign that says they are a Vet. That is a slap in the face of the War Vets that are out there.
People that are trying deserve a chance, children should never be in a homeless situation because they have no choice.
Bums that don't want to work and just want hand-outs can go fly a kite. I have no sympathy for those.
Friends or family that are down on their luck can have the shirt off my back.
There's just a big difference and can't lump all homeless people into one barrel.
There's also the homeless type who just wants to be in the woods and camp. I was homeless from 1980 to 1987 in the mountains of North Carolina and "got legal" in 1987 when I found a group of people with 40 acres who let me set up a tipi and live on the high ridge above their community. I cut a long switchback trail to the ridge, found a water spring seep and stayed in that tipi from 1987 to 2001.
Even though I was homeless in those 7 years before the tipi, I never considered myself in the same category as the slew of homeless men and women I met, in fact, I carried the best gear I could get and camped in the various forest sites I found adjacent to town. I found dozens of such campsites, some very close to town, some 6 or 7 miles out, all attained on foot.
While homeless I met many strange and violent characters, guys with rage, guys with substance abuse problems, old hobos who used to ride the rails, women-drunks who would finish off a bottle of wine in an open church, defecate on the carpet, and pass out under a pew. I met one mean guy who carried kung fu stars and a jabbing fork to fight with, always in trouble with the cops, unapproachable. I met an old hobo drunk who'd make the ultralite types look like rank beginners as his only gear was a paper bag carried in one hand.
He told me his life story and I learned alot about being a bum from him. But in my case I was a non-drinking bum, an important distinction. My homelessness came from a desire to backpack and to stay out in the woods permanently, my drug and addiction was Nature, Herself.
But I did my share of dumpster diving, one time I convinced several other backpacking friends to go homeless for a summer and we camped together on high hills, in lost valleys, and inside hidden treelines.
My goal was to experience winter conditions with a tent and a bag on a permanent basis, something 99.9% of homeless people would not do then and won't do now. I even worked part-time while I was homeless, just took my pack to work and afterwards hit the familiar "trails" with a flashlight on several occasions. Played street music, too(see fotog).
Partly the whole thing was a macho exercise in mountain man splendor, my ego felt a cut above the pitiful masses stuck in jobs they hated and stuck in a non-backpacking world vacant from nature's rush and beauty. But my theory was, why go out backpacking for a weekend when you can do it for seven years?
Tipi, that doesn't sound like you were homeless in the typical sense. You just made your home out of a tent and managed to support yourself.
envirodiver
01-04-2008, 13:25
Tipi, reading your story leaves me torn between...geez the guy is nuts and...geez that sounds great, I'm green with envy...leaning much more toward the envy side. I've seen your photo gallery of the tipi, very cool.
I think a lot of us on here may dream at times of living in the woods, usually every time that I go on a backpacking trip. Then reality jumps up and gets in the way. Or maybe more to the point a lack of the stones to do it.
Although technically you were homeless I would think you were more of a wanderer than a vagrant.
CoyoteWhips
01-04-2008, 13:28
But my theory was, why go out backpacking for a weekend when you can do it for seven years?
Yeah, like the other posters, I'm not sure if you're not so much homeless as just houseless.
Pedaling Fool
01-04-2008, 13:35
Tipi, Many just talk about being with nature and being a free-spirit, but you not only talked the talk, you walked the walk.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
01-04-2008, 13:46
Going without housing by choice is somewhat different than being homeless without another choice - whether because of mental illness or lack of ability to earn funds (disability) or for some other reason.
Some, like Tipi Walter,choose to live in the woods. Others choose not to work and sponge off others for a living. They are two distinct groups.
I dare say there are many here who would love to have the guts it takes to do what Tipi does.
Tipi Walter
01-04-2008, 14:00
Going without housing by choice is somewhat different than being homeless without another choice - whether because of mental illness or lack of ability to earn funds (disability) or for some other reason.
Some, like Tipi Walter,choose to live in the woods. Others choose not to work and sponge off others for a living. They are two distinct groups.
I dare say there are many here who would love to have the guts it takes to do what Tipi does.
Not guts, just a deep thirst to be out when the first snowflake falls. And a greedy desire to get as much as possible before the window slams shut.
Tipi has more backpacking experience than anyone I have ever met. On top of that he is a pleasure to be around. Kudos to you Tipi, and I hope to run into you again someday.:cool:
Darwin again
01-04-2008, 14:38
it seems the all the "homeless"/drifter/transient types around here are GROWN men. you never see women and children
Unemployment hit five percent today, wolfie.
Keep watchiing, maybe you'll get lucky. :rolleyes:
johnny quest
01-04-2008, 14:50
"wolfie"????
braver man than i gunga din.
you hoping for recession?
Darwin again
01-04-2008, 15:07
"wolfie"????
braver man than i gunga din.
you hoping for recession?
Let's just say, you ain't seen nothin' yet, sunshine.:sun
There are worse places to be homeless than on the AT.
(Wolfie, he's RICH. He can still afford smug. :D)
Miss Janet
01-04-2008, 15:08
i feed 3 homeless cats
Pearl, Browns, Squeaker
You just haven't realized that THEY adopted you and are making you think you are doing a good deed... cats are good at that. So are some people!
There have been Trail HoBo's around as long as I can remember... heck, some of them are good friends... some I worry about... and a few are a little scary. But for the most part the 'functioning" homeless on the trail are hard to tell apart from any thruhiker that has been on the trail a while unless you really look at the gear... but you can't always tell hiking "intentions" by the gear people choose to use.
I recently saw a hiker that I know has been up and down the trail at least 5 times in the past few years. Homeless for sure but he manages pretty well. His gear is lots of cotton and street shoes and tarps but he has a good attitude and takes his white blazes just as serious as a "real" thruhiker. And I also know a homeless man with some mental health issues that uses his disability checks to buy the very best gear, guidebooks, etc... and hardly ever hikes but he has sure fooled a lot of people into accepting him as a "hiker"!
I think it is a good idea to always be cautious but not to judge too quickly... if you feel you have to judge at all.
Lone Wolf
01-04-2008, 15:09
(Wolfie, he's RICH. He can still afford smug. :D)
really? where did you hear that
Dances with Mice
01-04-2008, 15:24
... And I also know a ... man with some mental health issues that ... buys the very best gear, guidebooks, etc... and hardly ever hikes but he has sure fooled a lot of people into accepting him as a "hiker"! ...I've been busted...
There are more than a few interesting stories of people either "homeless" or homeless or down on ther luck who ended up on the AT one way or another, and might at first glance have appeared to be one type of person and either evolved from the experience or enlightened others around them by their presence. Never prejudge. Anyone can surprise you.
cowboy nichols
01-04-2008, 16:00
If I were homeless I don't think I would choose the AT to stay on. There are other less traveled pathes. I have lived in a tent on occasion by choice and I was quite (very) happy. My children were not. As I hang around this life I find owning less is better.
Pedaling Fool
01-04-2008, 16:26
You just haven't realized that THEY adopted you and are making you think you are doing a good deed... cats are good at that. So are some people!...
Yeah, I thought I was helping out this cat by taking him off the streets, now he doesn't let me sit on the couch if he's on it, damn thing actually will jump at my arm and bite. So I got to sit on the floor.
NorthCountryWoods
01-04-2008, 16:27
Everytime someone like you shoots their trap off it just makes me want to get on here and razzle your feathers. And it's working too..............
"razzle your feathers"....are you flirting?
Sorry, I'm happily married, but nice misdirection to dodge the discussion.;)
dessertrat
01-04-2008, 17:41
Tipi, that doesn't sound like you were homeless in the typical sense. You just made your home out of a tent and managed to support yourself.
It sounds like he had a home-- in a tent.
Part of the definition of "homeless", sort of like "poverty" is hopelessness or relying upon others.
A man who is self-sufficient and comfortable in a tent, and not depending upon charity to eat or stay warm or clean, is neither poor nor homeless. He is, like Rush Limbaugh says, an "Urban Outdoorsman"!
Uhhh, I disagree with this. Basically under this principle:
-Don't Take Anything Personally
Nothing others do is because of you. What others say and do is a projection of their own reality, their own dream. When you are immune to the opinions and actions of others, you won't be the victim of needless suffering.
That's part of an american indian tradition called Toltec.
In reality, your actions are a reflection of how you feel that day and where you are at that time. So you may want to help everyone, but if you're in a situation where you don't feel comfortable with or if you just are pissed at the world and don't wanna help that homeless guy, then you're not going to help them and that's just how it is. If you have the presence of mind to reason through things and make a judgement call, then good for you. Or if you feel particularly generous but there are no homeless folks around, someone else might be the recipient of your kindness, it all just depends.
On the up-side if someone is feeling particularly generous with nobody to help...if his stories are any indication, TOW seems to have an incredible network of friendly, happy, down on their luck vagabonds that are willing to work, helpful, grateful, and will make you feel good!
You are so poetic with words and your theory has a good point. You are absolutely correct on your analysis. I don't always help everyone that comes across my path.
But your wrong about a network of friendly, happy, down on their luck crowd. Most of those who hang out with me are doing something. I don't let bums hang out too long, maybe for a moment...................but not a long one.......
Partly the whole thing was a macho exercise in mountain man splendor, my ego felt a cut above the pitiful masses stuck in jobs they hated and stuck in a non-backpacking world vacant from nature's rush and beauty. But my theory was, why go out backpacking for a weekend when you can do it for seven years?
Most excellent story TiPi!
"razzle your feathers"....are you flirting?
Sorry, I'm happily married, but nice misdirection to dodge the discussion.;)
we can pick it up again if you want, you were sayin...........?
Earl Grey
01-04-2008, 18:39
When I hiked last year we came across this WEIRD dude in PA right before Lehigh Gap. My friends got there before me and they were just staring off into space because they didnt know what to do. This guy had come up and started asking these off the wall questions they told me, like "how do you feel about gay sex?" and some other odd stuff. He was camping in a tent off the trail and not in the shelter but still we were spooked. He came back eventually and asked me the same stuff and i said "thats sick man, GTFO of here". We ended up staying in the shelter because there were 3 of us and one of him. That was the only time it was weird.
When I chose to be homeless I always had a saying for those who would state that I was homeless. "Homeless is a state of mind, not being."
kayak karl
01-04-2008, 18:42
Exactly. No need to encourage this kind of behavior.
i second that. i live in a poor town and learned my lesson the hard way.
I'll have to defend this guy, this guy is definetly mentally disabled. I've been in contact with his family.
You are probably not going to buy this, but this guy was married once and I think there is a child or two also. As his father put it he was kind of a crazy guy anyway. He had a tree business down in Asheville that was fairly successfull. Then one day he has a bad car wreck that put him in a coma for awhile from head injuries. He comes out of the coma and heals up but never fully recovers. After awhile his wife leaves him along with the kids. He is able to keep his business going and then one day it happens again. Bad wreck, head injuries, coma, recovers, loses business, starts wandering.
And that is the truth about this guy.
Is this the POI in the missing girl case?
Miss Janet
01-04-2008, 19:04
Is this the POI in the missing girl case?
No, Maple, He was just talking about something else... this is a lot of stuff to read. It doesn't appear that anyone on here so far has recognized the POI.
kayak karl
01-04-2008, 19:29
to put my dad at ease, i told him to read whiteblaze. to let him know i wouldn't be alone and had support. in lite of resent posts he wants me to carry a weapon.
this is scary for our loved ones.
its no worst then the buses and subways in philly and camden, but tell them that. i deal with homeless daily. i deliver the food they take (as L. Wolf posted earlier). its a strange, strange world.
Appalachian Tater
01-04-2008, 19:30
There are the mentally challenged people that an institution has decided is "cured" they open the door and push them through.
People can only be held involuntarily if they are a danger to themselves or to others. You can have many severe forms of mental illness simultaneously, which happens frequently, but they can't keep you in an institution unless you are dangerous.
If anyone ever tries to admit you involuntarily, go in voluntarily and sign yourself out the next day. If they sign you in then they decide when you can leave.
Is this the POI in the missing girl case?
Absolutely not, he was just here yesterday..........
Jack Tarlin
01-04-2008, 20:42
Wow. I just found this thread and don't have the time to read the whole thing.
A few real quick comments.
*Hostels and other Trail facilities sometimes attract unsavory types, including people who are essentially masquerading as hikers. The prudent A.T. hiker is aware of this, and keeps an eye on his valuables. Very little theft on the Trail actually takes place ON the Trail. It's towns, hostels, hiker gatherings/feeds, etc. where you have to keep an eye peeled.
*The best way to avoid potential problems with people at Trail shelters or
the best way to avoid trouble with sketchy people at shelters is to not stay
at them. Pretty simple.
Yeah, I thought I was helping out this cat by taking him off the streets, now he doesn't let me sit on the couch if he's on it, damn thing actually will jump at my arm and bite. So I got to sit on the floor.
That cat has evil eyes.
Wow. I just found this thread and don't have the time to read the whole thing.
A few real quick comments.
*Hostels and other Trail facilities sometimes attract unsavory types, including people who are essentially masquerading as hikers. The prudent A.T. hiker is aware of this, and keeps an eye on his valuables. Very little theft on the Trail actually takes place ON the Trail. It's towns, hostels, hiker gatherings/feeds, etc. where you have to keep an eye peeled.
*The best way to avoid potential problems with people at Trail shelters or
the best way to avoid trouble with sketchy people at shelters is to not stay
at them. Pretty simple.
Good advice. What is the best approach when you come across "hunters" standing in the trail, miles from a shelter or road? I put quotes around "hunters" because I came across two guys on the AT in VT who claimed they were hunting, but I don't know any hunters who carry a target pistol and a sawed-off shotgun. (Note: This took place about 20 years ago.)
I must confess - this kind of encounter - with a non-hiker, sort of really spooks me. Include in that - creeps me out. I guess being prudent and "staying away" from them is a viable option, but sometimes that's not possible and it's those times that make me uneasy.
Lone Wolf
01-04-2008, 21:04
Good advice. What is the best approach when you come across "hunters" standing in the trail, miles from a shelter or road? I put quotes around "hunters" because I came across two guys on the AT in VT who claimed they were hunting, but I don't know any hunters who carry a target pistol and a sawed-off shotgun. (Note: This took place about 20 years ago.)
don't matter. carrying firearms anywhere in VT is legal. can't wait to move back
don't matter. carrying firearms anywhere in VT is legal. can't wait to move back
Carrying a sawed-off shotgun is legal?? And what the heck do you hunt with that?
Lone Wolf
01-04-2008, 21:15
Carrying a sawed-off shotgun is legal?? And what the heck do you hunt with that?
was it truly sawed off or just your perception? i have a Mossberg riot gun, pistol grip with a 20" barrel. legal. looks "sawed off"
Jack Tarlin
01-04-2008, 21:18
When one encounters people on the Trail who make one uncomfortable, the best thing to do is keep conversation to a minimum; collect your gear; and then make some tracks. Make sure you're not followed, make some miles between you and the folks who are causing you unease, casually mention that you're expecting friends along at any time, don't tell anyone where you're going, and camp out of sight.
Or better yet, say nothing and just move on.
And this sort of thing happens VERY rarely.
When one encounters people on the Trail who make one uncomfortable, the best thing to do is keep conversation to a minimum; collect your gear; and then make some tracks. Make sure you're not followed, make some miles between you and the folks who are causing you unease, casually mention that you're expecting friends along at any time, don't tell anyone where you're going, and camp out of sight.
Or better yet, say nothing and just move on.
And this sort of thing happens VERY rarely.
We said hello, didn't make eye contact and kept on trucking. Scarey though.
At 16, I am a tad bit worried about my personal safety to a certain extent. I just need to remember to keep my guard up. Am I worried about being stalked in the woods? Not really.
Are there creapy people out there? Absolutely.
Safety first,
Kirby
was it truly sawed off or just your perception? i have a Mossberg riot gun, pistol grip with a 20" barrel. legal. looks "sawed off"
Could have been. It was a long time ago. I was more spooked by the way they looked at us than by their guns. Made me wish I had a gun myself.
A couple of years ago my wife and I hiked all day and planed to spend the night at the Pine swamp shelter in ct., When we arrived as it was getting dark the shelter was occupied with a guy smoking crack and not responding to any talk.
This was enough to spook my wife so we hiked in the dark back to a state campground and reported it to a D.E.P. officer there, They went in the morning and removed him, He was squating there for at least a week before our meeting with him.
Yes I know what crack is, I've worked at a maximum security prison for the past 16 years, I Also carry a weapon to protect myself and anyone that may need my help..
This is going to sound cold and heartless (but true) most homeless people (not all, but most) are homeless because they want to be or don’t want to work. There are plenty of originations and government programs that are there to help people down on their luck. Most homeless people simply choose to not take advantage of them. It’s kinda hard to feel sorry for a person that does this. The government takes tax money from us, some of this goes to these programs. So like it or not we all have given to these people, and will continue to do so. The next you are asked for a hand out give them a card with phone numbers of government offices that are there to help them. I will bet you will continue to see this person asking for handouts. They will have thrown the card away.
was it truly sawed off or just your perception? i have a Mossberg riot gun, pistol grip with a 20" barrel. legal. looks "sawed off"
Any rifle or shotgun with a barrel less then 16-inches is extremely illegal, and having one on you will land you in jail and you will forever be a felon.
WILLIAM HAYES
01-05-2008, 00:48
I always take extra precautions around trail heads and road crossings and never stay overnite within two miles of either. I have only had one creepy feeling in hiking the trail over the past 5 years and that was at beauty spot when a car I had seen earlier came back up the road at a very slow crawl like they were looking for someone I hid off the road until they passed and scooted across the road-just a sixth sense or feeling that they may have been up to something. Otherwise on balance after all this time on the trail I have never felt uneasy -the further in the woods I am the better I feel- my advice if it doesnt feel right in your gut trust your intuition and move on and or take necessary precautions.
Hillbilly
NorthCountryWoods
01-05-2008, 10:01
don't matter. carrying firearms anywhere in VT is legal. can't wait to move back
When are you moving back and why did you leave?
Did the same thing a couple years back. Moved to Chantilly, VA for 3 year internship and moved back last year.
Can't even tell you how good it is to be back.
His blood is too thin now.
At 16, I am a tad bit worried about my personal safety to a certain extent. I just need to remember to keep my guard up. Am I worried about being stalked in the woods? Not really.
Are there creapy people out there? Absolutely.
Safety first,
Kirby
If you look at the stats, You are alot safer on the AT than any urban area. I would never camp close to roads and I would try to stay out of the towns on the weekends.
envirodiver
01-05-2008, 14:25
People can only be held involuntarily if they are a danger to themselves or to others. You can have many severe forms of mental illness simultaneously, which happens frequently, but they can't keep you in an institution unless you are dangerous.
If anyone ever tries to admit you involuntarily, go in voluntarily and sign yourself out the next day. If they sign you in then they decide when you can leave.
Tater the point that I was trying to make was that there are people living on the streets that have been "released" from mental institutions, that are unable to care for themselves. They have no-one to help them and end up living on the streets. They are different from the folks that can work and choose not to. IMO they are of the type that deserves help.
People can only be held involuntarily if they are a danger to themselves or to others.
Or are unable to take care of their basic need of food, clothing, and shelter.[Which some may claim is a "danger to themself".
Agree somewhat with the voluntary admission statement you made.
However, there are ways that institutions can keep you up to three days after you "sign yourself out", even with voluntary admission.
At least that is my experience in my state, other states may differ, but, are simular to this.
NorthCountryWoods
01-05-2008, 15:25
Why was my post above deleted?
Don't think I said anything wrong/political/offensive just wondering so I don't make the same mistake.
Thanks for the replies. I'm glad to see that serious issues with these people aren't more prevalent. Good luck and stay safe!
Rain Man
01-07-2008, 11:38
This is going to sound cold and heartless (but true) most homeless people (not all, but most) are homeless because they want to be or don’t want to work.
You are correct, it is cold and heartless. It is not a choice most make.
Your attitude is like looking at someone with a broken leg and blaming them for not just getting up and walking like a normal person.
Rain Man
.
johnny quest
01-07-2008, 11:42
if they are mentally ill, if they CANT function like nice normal people, as you say, then why are they allowed to be around nice normal people?
I find people are particularly difficult to judge when you are not from the area you are hiking in. I have a pretty good sense of what people are like here, and they are not all nice of course, but I have a harder time further away. Knowing when to keep my trap shut and make tracks sounds like a skill worth developing. Normally I am the strange one. Should probably tone that down also.
Rain Man
01-07-2008, 14:15
if they are mentally ill, if they CANT function like nice normal people, as you say, then why are they allowed to be around nice normal people?
Your question reminds me somewhat of the poem, "First they came...." If interested, you can read it at --
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came...
I am curious, if folks who are not "nice normal people" are to have no rights and freedoms, who gets to decide if you are nice and normal?
:D
Ever see "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest"? Sometimes those deciding who is nice and normal and how those should be treated are not so nice and normal themselves. YIKES!
I suspect our being around folks who are neither nice nor normal might be God's way of giving us the privilege of growing our own character.
Rain:sunMan
P.S. I'm definitely nor normal! I hike the AT. But if I'm nice, do I still get to have rights and freedom? Pretty please?
P.P.S. Just to be clear and all kidding aside, the test is NOT "nice" nor "normal." The test is "dangerous." Two different things.
.
Critterman
01-07-2008, 14:38
Thanks for the replies. I'm glad to see that serious issues with these people aren't more prevalent. Good luck and stay safe!
It seems that the guy who kidnapped and probably killed the hiker in Georgia Meredith Emerson was both homeless and a sometimes trail transient.
johnny quest
01-07-2008, 14:42
Your question reminds me somewhat of the poem, "First they came...." If interested, you can read it at --
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came...
I am curious, if folks who are not "nice normal people" are to have no rights and freedoms, who gets to decide if you are nice and normal?
:D
Ever see "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest"? Sometimes those deciding who is nice and normal and how those should be treated are not so nice and normal themselves. YIKES!
I suspect our being around folks who are neither nice nor normal might be God's way of giving us the privilege of growing our own character.
Rain:sunMan
P.S. I'm definitely nor normal! I hike the AT. But if I'm nice, do I still get to have rights and freedom? Pretty please?
P.P.S. Just to be clear and all kidding aside, the test is NOT "nice" nor "normal." The test is "dangerous." Two different things.
.
thats interesting. i was quoting your words "nice normal people" but now i see you altered your entry. why is that?