Is a map necessary?

[insider2185]

It is my understanding that the AT is marked by white blazes showing the trail. I was wondering if that is the case, then is a map really necessary? If so, please advise.

Thanks for your help.

[Jack Tarlin]

If you have any sense, bring current maps.

[Kirby]

Always bring maps, the AT is well markedd, but yoyu should never leave the house for the trail without a maps of the area, and the trail, especially on a overnight.

Kirby

[Lone Wolf]

It is my understanding that the AT is marked by white blazes showing the trail. I was wondering if that is the case, then is a map really necessary? If so, please advise.

Thanks for your help.

ALWAYS carry a map when hiking on trails. You never know when an emergency will arise and you'll need to find the quickest way to a road/town. To hike without a map is irresponsible and foolish. Fact.

[rickb]

ALWAYS carry a map when hiking on trails. You never know when an emergency will arise and you'll need to find the quickest way to a road/town. To hike without a map is irresponsible and foolish. Fact.

What's with the capitalization?

You been drinking or is there someone on-line you are looking to impress?

[Tin Man]

What they said....ALWAYS

Highways are marked too. On a long car trip to a new destination, do you take a map or just wing it?

[Lone Wolf]

What's with the capitalization?

You been drinking or is there someone on-line you are looking to impress?

how about F*** you and your assumptions. dick

[insider2185]

You all make good points. I guess I forgot to mention a few things. I already have guide and data books that show highways and whatnot. I am trying cut a bunch of weight, so I was trying to figure out which are more important.

[Appalachian Tater]

Well, if you're trying to cut weight, that's not the way to do it. Carry a couple of maps and leave a candy bar at home instead.

[Kirby]

You all make good points. I guess I forgot to mention a few things. I already have guide and data books that show highways and whatnot. I am trying cut a bunch of weight, so I was trying to figure out which are more important.

What type of hike are you going on? You should always carry maps, that should never be on a list of items you are considering cutting.

If you are thru hiking, or going on a long distance, you should carry a guidebook(Appalachian Pages, Thru Hiker's Companion, Thru Hikers Handbook), and the maps for the given area.

Kirby

[Tin Man]

You all make good points. I guess I forgot to mention a few things. I already have guide and data books that show highways and whatnot. I am trying cut a bunch of weight, so I was trying to figure out which are more important.

Maps stay. One guidebook is sufficient. Carry just the maps/guides for the section you are on and mail the rest ahead.

[BigStu]

how about F*** you and your assumptions. dick

Stop beating about the bush there LW and say what you really think :D

[Del Q]

I agree philosophically with above comments on maps, something I tried my last two times out (Section Hiker) was cut the tops off that show the elevations, shelters, water, etc...........about 1 1/2 inches wide, wrapped them around a pencil and unrolled it as I progressed. Had small copies of guidebooks for other info. Worked for me.

Del Q

[Tennessee Viking]

Unless you are an well seasoned AT hiker, maps will be handy.

You will need to plan out your next day section, wheres water, plan where to break, where to camp, find out the upcoming grade, and how close you are to town or trailhead.

But the real good reason to carry maps are for emergencies, most detailed maps will indicate forest roads and side trails. Heard of hiker hurting themselves at Overmountain, and was carried out back up to Carvers Gap.
But all they had to do was walk down the nearby forest road to the nearby community.

[Jack Tarlin]

Insider:

My original comment to you was very brief as the library was about to close.

There are a great many threads here dealing with maps, and the wisdom of carrying them.

But the bottom line is that it's foolish and reckless to hike a piece of land you don't know intimately without a current map and the ability to read it.

In fact, there are all sorts of reasons why prudent hikers carry maps and only one reason not to, which is to save a few dollars and even a fewer ounces.

If you want to cut some corners on your pack weight or your trip budget, there are a whole lot of smarter ways to do it.

Bring maps.

[FatMan]

Necessary?....no

Smart?.........YES

[Deadeye]

Take the maps, leave the books. There's lots of space on the maps to write down what's down each road you cross, i.e. town w/ Post office, 2 miles east, burgers and beer 1/2 mile west. All that information is in the books you no longer need to carry!

[The Doctor]

There are only two ways to go on the trail. If you can't figure out which way is yours I'll be glad to some along and hit you in the head with a tack hammer and knock some sense into you. Maps are worthless!

[Jack Tarlin]

Hike the Trail first.

THEN tell people what they need. :-?

[Two Speed]

Can't imagine hiking anything more complicated than the local park without a map. Trying to hike on the AT or any other long trail without a map can be done, I guess, but I think it's a pretty stupid thing to do. Even if you don't need it for emergency purposes a map's still extremely handy for figuring out what your day's gonna look like; where you can expect to find water, what views might be worth checking out, where the better campsites are, when you can expect to cross a road, etc.

Short version: there are people who do hike without maps but you ain't gonna catch me doing much of that crap.

[Pedaling Fool]

There are only two ways to go on the trail. If you can't figure out which way is yours I'll be glad to some along and hit you in the head with a tack hammer and knock some sense into you. Maps are worthless!
Insureance is pretty worthless also, until you get in that accident.

[kayak karl]

There are only two ways to go on the trail. If you can't figure out which way is yours I'll be glad to some along and hit you in the head with a tack hammer and knock some sense into you. Maps are worthless!
worthless, if you can't read a compass:D

[The Doctor]

This isn't mountaineering, it's hiking the AT. Well defined trails with white blazes that are hard to miss. If you really need the elevation charts go for it, but they're easy to look at and plan you hike without having to bring them with you. HYOH and if you're afraid you'll get lost on the busiest trail trail in the country then bring it with you.

[Pedaling Fool]

...HYOH and if you're afraid you'll get lost on the busiest trail trail in the country then bring it with you.
It's not about that, read the previous posts.

[Two Speed]

Everyone's gotta learn somehow. :cool:

[Lone Wolf]

It's not about that, read the previous posts.

The Doc is an expert. He's never thru-hiked but he's an expert. cyberhiker

[Tin Man]

Experienced trail hikers carry maps.
Pack sniffing cyberhikers don't.
Go with experience every time.

[Montego]

Doc doesn't get it. It's not about needing maps for the well blazed trail, it's about needing the maps in case (for emergencies where time may be critical) one has to get off the trail (and back to 'civilization') quickly.

[Bob S]

Just a guess, most lost hikers didn’t have maps with them.

[The Doctor]

Experienced trail hikers carry maps.
Pack sniffing cyberhikers don't.
Go with experience every time.

I don't see the need in bringing a map or elevation charts with you. You can just as easily look at them before you leave and write the mileages, POI's, road crossings and significant elevations on a small sheet of paper. I personally find maps worthless (on the AT) but that's just my opinion. Take it or leave it.

[The Old Fhart]

The Doctor-".....If you really need the elevation charts go for it, but they're easy to look at and plan you hike without having to bring them with you...."Not everyone has the capacity to memorize a 160 day trip turn by turn or an elevation profile for 2178 miles.:rolleyes:

[Kirby]

Not everyone has the capacity to memorize a 160 day trip turn by turn or an elevation profile for 2178 miles.:rolleyes:

I don't know about you, but I plan on drawing the maps on my arm, I can save a few ounces that way.

Kirby

[Tin Man]

I don't see the need in bringing a map or elevation charts with you. You can just as easily look at them before you leave and write the mileages, POI's, road crossings and significant elevations on a small sheet of paper. I personally find maps worthless (on the AT) but that's just my opinion. Take it or leave it.

Okay.

Cut the handle off your tooth brush and carry a map. Um, that was for anyone listening to Doc here. Obviously, he has cut the handle off the toothbrush and his safety net - the map.

[Tin Man]

I don't know about you, but I plan on drawing the maps on my arm, I can save a few ounces that way.

Kirby

Better make that a tatoo, so it doesn't wash off. :)

[The Doctor]

Let's say hypothetically that you did have a serious injury on the trail.
A) if it's that bad then you're not getting yourself off the trail and you wil need to wait for another hiker to help you
B) if it's a somewhat debilitating then you can use the road crossing distances you wrote down to determine which way to go
C) during through hiker season, odds are you are going to be bombarded by a surplus of people on the trail who can help you
D) It's a matter of going uphill and downhill and north or south. The only one that is your choice is the north or south. Pick a direction and go. Don't be one of the herbs that has to check a map before every ascent *it will make you miserable and the day seem more tiresome. Realize there are ups and downs and take them as they come.

[Tin Man]

Let's say hypothetically that you did have a serious injury on the trail.
A) if it's that bad then you're not getting yourself off the trail and you wil need to wait for another hiker to help you
B) if it's a somewhat debilitating then you can use the road crossing distances you wrote down to determine which way to go
C) during through hiker season, odds are you are going to be bombarded by a surplus of people on the trail who can help you
D) It's a matter of going uphill and downhill and north or south. The only one that is your choice is the north or south. Pick a direction and go. Don't be one of the herbs that has to check a map before every ascent *it will make you miserable and the day seem more tiresome. Realize there are ups and downs and take them as they come.

You are really going out of your way to justify saving a few ounces. Maps are just smart. Period.

[The Doctor]

You are really going out of your way to justify saving a few ounces. Maps are just smart. Period.

Maps are only good for starting a fire when you realize how unnecessary they are to your hike. I'm gonna stick with my original answer on this one. When it comes to the AT write down the necessary stuff on a piece of paper and ditch the map.

[Tin Man]

Maps are only good for starting a fire when you realize how unnecessary they are to your hike. I'm gonna stick with my original answer on this one. When it comes to the AT write down the necessary stuff on a piece of paper and ditch the map.

Okay, but no peaking at anyone else's map. :)

[fiddlehead]

Experienced trail hikers carry maps.
Pack sniffing cyberhikers don't.
Go with experience every time.

Not sure where you get that assumption.

Many don't

I am not recommending that beginners don't, i'm saying that many experienced hikers on the AT do not carry them.

I've seen hikers carrying maps lost because they didn't know how to read them or maybe it was the compass that confused them.

I will say that the AT is a good place to learn how to read a map and even if you make mistakes, you probably won't die because of it. On other, more arduous trails, maps are more important.

I've been lost many times on many trails. Sometimes because i forget which way to go when leaving a shelter or campsite, I do recommend carrying a compass at all times and knowing how to use it.

Lots of opinions on here, take all with a grain of salt.

I remember once in the Pyrenees when it was a complete whiteout and we argued for a while about where we were and had the map spread out. Finally it cleared and the trail was about 5 feet away. we all laughed pretty good at that one.

[fiddlehead]

"Believe Nothing, No matter where you read it, or who has said it, even if I have said it, Unless it agrees with your own reason, and your own common sense!" Buddha

[hopefulhiker]

It is best to carry a map. I carried data sheets too. The Companion by the ATC or even an old Wingfoot book wouldn't hurt...

[Tin Man]

Not sure where you get that assumption.

Many don't

I am not recommending that beginners don't, i'm saying that many experienced hikers on the AT do not carry them.

Must be the boy scout training in me, from my days as a scout and my current leadership position. Maybe I should have said smart hikers carry maps. That said, I often forget the map when I am doing just a few miles on a trail that I know well. I guess that means I am not always a smart hiker. :)

[shelterbuilder]

Some would say that maps are unnecessary. Some would also say that toilet paper is unnecessary. I carry both, thank you.:D

[FatMan]

Necessary?....no

Smart?.........YESWith all due respect to those that posted, I rest my case.

[kayak karl]

This isn't mountaineering, it's hiking the AT. Well defined trails with white blazes that are hard to miss. If you really need the elevation charts go for it, but they're easy to look at and plan you hike without having to bring them with you. HYOH and if you're afraid you'll get lost on the busiest trail trail in the country then bring it with you.
well defined trail? you'll learn when you miss a double blaze, but then i've learned, i'm much too old to know everything:-?

[Demortor]

Doc knows that the trail isn't always north and south. There are a few times you actually head south to go north. eh?

[Wilson]

Only worthless if your incapable of reading it, theres a lot of people out there that can't read even a road map much less a topo...my wife being one.

[Tin Man]

Some would say that maps are unnecessary. Some would also say that toilet paper is unnecessary. I carry both, thank you.:D

If you plan carefully, I imagine you could transfer a copy of the map to your TP a certain number of squares ahead of your, um planned need. ;)

[take-a-knee]

Mere possesion of a map (essential IMO) doesn't grant one map reading skills. Jack Tarlin stated this early in the thread but I think it needs restating. The US Army Map Reading Field Manual (FM) 21-26 can be found on line. An excellent book is Bjorn Kellstroms' "Be an Expert with Map & Compass". Perusal of these books and a couple of weekends at an orienteering meet (they are nationwide) should give you a good skill base to start.

[Pedaling Fool]

Just one more comment and then I'm done.

I've read/heard (1st person accounts), on more than one occasion of people being seriously injured and someone using a map to find the closet point to evacuate, or to send others to get help, or to give detailed directions to rescue personnel.
This is information that cannot be found in a guidebook. So it's not about elevation profiles or whatever else....

Can you do a thru-hike without a map, yes, and many do. How often do you get in a car accident or your house burns down? If this has never happened to you do you stop payment on your insurance?

I'm not going to try and talk someone into carrying maps, but before you make the decision know the risks.

[kayak karl]

Only worthless if your incapable of reading it, theres a lot of people out there that can't read even a road map much less a topo...my wife being one.
your right. i was at a road crossing in chatsworth,nj. a car came by and asked to see my map. handed them my TOPO. they just stared at it, gave it back and drove off. nota clue!

[River Runner]

Necessary?....no

Smart?.........YES

That pretty much says it all.

[River Runner]

If you plan carefully, I imagine you could transfer a copy of the map to your TP a certain number of squares ahead of your, um planned need. ;)

Nice idea for the ultralighters! Someone needs to market map TP. :D

[River Runner]

Let's say hypothetically that you did have a serious injury on the trail.
C) during through hiker season, odds are you are going to be bombarded by a surplus of people on the trail who can help you


Just hope they had the sense to bring a map so they know the best way to get to help. :rolleyes:

[clured]

Doctor is right; its nice to have an anti-map ally!

Really, though, they are almost completely useless on the AT, unless you want them for entertainment. Its a continuous, fookin overblazed trail that runs through safe, temperate woods. Anyone that says it is "foolish" or "irresponsible" not to carry them is being alarmist and hyperbolic. I never once felt the slightest desire for them last summer.

Also, there's something truly wonderful about knowing very little about what tomorrow will bring.

[greentick]

Nice idea for the ultralighters! Someone needs to market map TP. :D

Stripmap form in a linear roll 2175 feet long; one foot per mile? Thats a pretty generous amount of butt wipin.;)

Learn how to use em. It's entertaining and useful if truly needed. If you don't want to learn to use em save the weight and don't bother bringing them.

[Peaks]

While most of the AT is well blazed, there are places, ususally intersections and wilderness areas, where the AT is not so well blazed. I was certainly glad I had my maps with me on those occassions.

[NorthCountryWoods]

Doctor is right; its nice to have an anti-map ally!

Really, though, they are almost completely useless on the AT, unless you want them for entertainment. Its a continuous, fookin overblazed trail that runs through safe, temperate woods. Anyone that says it is "foolish" or "irresponsible" not to carry them is being alarmist and hyperbolic. I never once felt the slightest desire for them last summer.

Also, there's something truly wonderful about knowing very little about what tomorrow will bring.

Ridiculous.

If you have a plan, deadline, mail drops, etc....carrying a map is smart and if nothing else a time saver.

[Deadeye]

Hike the Trail first.

THEN tell people what they need. :-?

The wisest advice I've ever seen here.

[Bob S]

If you plan carefully, I imagine you could transfer a copy of the map to your TP a certain number of squares ahead of your, um planned need. ;)


Very funny, that made me laugh…

[Kirby]

Supposingly the AT is well marked, but I have been on sections of the trail in Maine where it is very easy to loose the trail, and I did. Maps allowed me to find where I am, and see where I may have gone wrong.

Bring them.

Kirby

[Tin Man]

Supposingly the AT is well marked, but I have been on sections of the trail in Maine where it is very easy to loose the trail, and I did. Maps allowed me to find where I am, and see where I may have gone wrong.

Bring them.

Kirby

I have found maps handy at road crossings where the trail does not continue directly across the road. I am sure you can find the trail without a map, but it can save time.

[Lilred]

This isn't mountaineering, it's hiking the AT. Well defined trails with white blazes that are hard to miss. If you really need the elevation charts go for it, but they're easy to look at and plan you hike without having to bring them with you. HYOH and if you're afraid you'll get lost on the busiest trail trail in the country then bring it with you.

How many miles have you done on the trail???


Let's say hypothetically that you did have a serious injury on the trail.
A) if it's that bad then you're not getting yourself off the trail and you wil need to wait for another hiker to help you
B) if it's a somewhat debilitating then you can use the road crossing distances you wrote down to determine which way to go
C) during through hiker season, odds are you are going to be bombarded by a surplus of people on the trail who can help you
D) It's a matter of going uphill and downhill and north or south. The only one that is your choice is the north or south. Pick a direction and go. Don't be one of the herbs that has to check a map before every ascent *it will make you miserable and the day seem more tiresome. Realize there are ups and downs and take them as they come.

Part A - If it's that bad, you're gonna wish you had that map when the first hiker that comes by had read your post and decided not to bring a map. What do you do? which way do you go??

Part B - only a complete maroooon would bother to write down all the road crossings and information a map contains onto another sheet of paper. Way too much information. You'd be spending weeks of time doing that.

Part C screams MOOCH. "I didn't bother to be smart enough to bring my own map so can I mooch off of yours for however long it takes me to figure out where I am and how I can get off this mountain? I'm not hurt that bad, but let me cut into your hike for a half hour or so and inconvenience you so I can get off the mountain safely."

Part D - No it's not a matter of going north and south. You're also going east and west as well. And knowing the elevation gains is a great way to plan your day around. You get to the next climb out of a gap, it's 7 pm. How long is the climb? Is it 3 miles or 500 ft.? Can you get it done before the sun sets or not?? A map could tell you that.

Every time I read a post from someone that not only doesn't use maps, but tries to encourage others to do the same, just makes me shake my head in wonder at the amount of unwise people there are out there. I don't know why I'm still surprised by that fact.

[Tin Man]

How many miles have you done on the trail???



Part A - If it's that bad, you're gonna wish you had that map when the first hiker that comes by had read your post and decided not to bring a map. What do you do? which way do you go??

Part B - only a complete maroooon would bother to write down all the road crossings and information a map contains onto another sheet of paper. Way too much information. You'd be spending weeks of time doing that.

Part C screams MOOCH. "I didn't bother to be smart enough to bring my own map so can I mooch off of yours for however long it takes me to figure out where I am and how I can get off this mountain? I'm not hurt that bad, but let me cut into your hike for a half hour or so and inconvenience you so I can get off the mountain safely."

Part D - No it's not a matter of going north and south. You're also going east and west as well. And knowing the elevation gains is a great way to plan your day around. You get to the next climb out of a gap, it's 7 pm. How long is the climb? Is it 3 miles or 500 ft.? Can you get it done before the sun sets or not?? A map could tell you that.

Every time I read a post from someone that not only doesn't use maps, but tries to encourage others to do the same, just makes me shake my head in wonder at the amount of unwise people there are out there. I don't know why I'm still surprised by that fact.

Couldn't agree more.

[clured]

How many miles have you done on the trail???



Part A - If it's that bad, you're gonna wish you had that map when the first hiker that comes by had read your post and decided not to bring a map. What do you do? which way do you go??

Part B - only a complete maroooon would bother to write down all the road crossings and information a map contains onto another sheet of paper. Way too much information. You'd be spending weeks of time doing that.

Part C screams MOOCH. "I didn't bother to be smart enough to bring my own map so can I mooch off of yours for however long it takes me to figure out where I am and how I can get off this mountain? I'm not hurt that bad, but let me cut into your hike for a half hour or so and inconvenience you so I can get off the mountain safely."

Part D - No it's not a matter of going north and south. You're also going east and west as well. And knowing the elevation gains is a great way to plan your day around. You get to the next climb out of a gap, it's 7 pm. How long is the climb? Is it 3 miles or 500 ft.? Can you get it done before the sun sets or not?? A map could tell you that.

Every time I read a post from someone that not only doesn't use maps, but tries to encourage others to do the same, just makes me shake my head in wonder at the amount of unwise people there are out there. I don't know why I'm still surprised by that fact.

Oh come on, people, quit being so tender and fear-mongering. Since the alarmist, map-obsessed people always bring up the case of injury, lets really think about it:

Say you are hiking with a partner, and he slips and shatters his ankle, and that the break is so nasty (bones poking out, etc.) that it would be absolutely impossible to bit the bullet and hike out on the injury. In a situation like that, you need to get help as quickly as possible, BUT, in a real emergency it is foolish and irresponsible to improvise; you should go with what you absolutely KNOW will work, what will without a doubt get aid to your friend.

In short, this is no time to bust out your map and sally forth off-trail on some crazy, improvised bushwack that may or may not get you to a road faster than the trail would. How many of you actually have experience with bushwacking? In most cases, especially with the dense underbrush on the east coast, it is incredibly slow, laborious, and difficult. Maps show you very basic information about grade/topography, but nothing about the "hike-ability" of the forest floor; what looks like two miles of bushwacking may very well take you longer than 4-5 miles of trail (assuming, that is, you don't get altogether lost).

In the case of injury there is only one responsible thing to do: you pull out your GUIDEBOOK and make one simple decision; you determine if it is shorter to walk back to the last roadcrossing or forward to the next one, and do whatever is faster.

I'm tired of people acting like not carrying maps is some despicable foolishness that invites injury; I would argue the opposite: that by blindly encouraging everyone, no matter how inexperienced in the woods, to carry maps you encourage people to do stupid things in bad situations, like trying to bushwack while their friend sits on the trail with a compound fracture.

And yes, I've thru-hiked, so don't tell me I don't know what I'm talking about.

[Appalachian Tater]

In the case of injury there is only one responsible thing to do: you pull out your GUIDEBOOK and make one simple decision; you determine if it is shorter to walk back to the last roadcrossing or forward to the next one, and do whatever is faster.

With a map you may find a shorter route such as a railroad bed or an unpaved road that leads to someplace with a telephone.

I agree that you can quite easily thru-hike without a map. The times I got "lost" on the A.T., a map wouldn't have helped, at least not maps on any scale I've seen published.

But had there been an emergency, including something like a forest fire, a map would have been pretty damn handy.

[Tin Man]

I am not sure why the anti-map lobby is so adamant about not carrying a useful tool that weighs practically nothing. Stubbornness I guess. :-?

I am not trying to change the anti-map crowd's opinion, so don't try to change the pro-map crowd. :)

[The Old Fhart]

Clured-“Say you are hiking with a partner, and he slips and shatters his ankle, and that the break is so nasty (bones poking out, etc.) that it would be absolutely impossible to bit the bullet and hike out on the injury. In a situation like that, you need to get help as quickly as possible, BUT, in a real emergency it is foolish and irresponsible to improvise; you should go with what you absolutely KNOW will work, what will without a doubt get aid to your friend.

In short, this is no time to bust out your map and sally forth off-trail on some crazy, improvised bushwack that may or may not get you to a road faster than the trail would. How many of you actually have experience with bushwacking? In most cases, especially with the dense underbrush on the east coast, it is incredibly slow, laborious, and difficult. Maps show you very basic information about grade/topography, but nothing about the "hike-ability" of the forest floor; what looks like two miles of bushwacking may very well take you longer than 4-5 miles of trail (assuming, that is, you don't get altogether lost).”

About 1990 I happened on such an accident on the 5 mile stretch between NJ RT-206 and Sunrise Mountain where a lone hiker had tried to rock-hop across a brook, slipped on wet rocks, ended up unconscious with a concussion, and was hypothermic from laying in the water for about ½ an hour before he was found. Fortunately the rescuers knew the area and realized that the Sunrise Mt. Road was just over 100 yards NE and they didn’t take the trail about 2 miles to the pavilion on Sunrise Mt. or 3 miles back toward RT-206.

There are many other areas where a map could save your arse in an emergency such as SNP, BRP, Albert Mtn., most of Maine, etc. It may be comforting for you to believe that ignorance is bliss, but it is just ignorance.

Potential emergencies are not the only good reason to carry map and compass and know how to use them. Knowing an area well is also no excuse not to carry a map either. I probably know the Mount Washington area better than anyone on WB having climbed it over 70 times both summer and winter as well as working on the summit for 4 winters, and I always carry a map and compass with me.

[rickb]

I probably know the Mount Washington area better than anyone on WB having climbed it over 70 times both summer and winter as well as working on the summit for 4 winters, and I always carry a map and compass with me.

That may be one of the most important areas to carry a map.

[Appalachian Tater]

That may be one of the most important areas to carry a map.

I would think a map less useful there than almost anywhere else. The trail is only marked by cairns for the most part and when it is foggy, you can't see ten feet.

[Lone Wolf]

And yes, I've thru-hiked, so don't tell me I don't know what I'm talking about.

Dude! You're like SO awesome! I can't believe it, like i want to hang with you. I can't believe like you've done the whole trail. AWESOME. So like is it cool? :eek:

[The Old Fhart]

Lone Wolf-"Dude! You're like SO awesome! I can't believe it, like i want to hang with you. I can't believe like you've done the whole trail. AWESOME. So like is it cool? :eek:"Exactly what I was thinking but you put it so much better than I could! :D

[Lilred]

Dude! You're like SO awesome! I can't believe it, like i want to hang with you. I can't believe like you've done the whole trail. AWESOME. So like is it cool? :eek:

LOLOL Wolf, I've never seen this side of you...... LOLOL

[Jack Tarlin]

Clured is wrong on so many levels I don't know where to begin, but his contention that all one has to do in an emergency is keep going to a road, or backtrack the way you came is remarkably stupid.

As others have pointed out, a map will show other alternatives and will help you make better decisions. In 1997, for example, I was involved in assisting a hiker with a badly broken leg. By using a map, we were not only able to send someone ahead to notify the EMT's, but we were also able to figure out which way they'd be accessing the Trail to come get the injured hiker. We managed to carry her to that point and the medical people arrived minutes later. Rescuers told us later that our actions got her to the emergency room many hours than would have been the case otherwise.

Without maps and the ability to read them, none of this would have been possible.

While I respect that Clured was able to hike the Trail without maps, thuis does not necessarily mean this is a prudent or wise thing to do. Merely because one happily survives doing something risky and foolhardy does not mean that the risks are in any way lessened, and advising people to behave similarly is neither smart, nor is it particularly good advice.

And lastly, Clured, lighten up a bit. I can't ever recall seeing non-map carriers called "despicable." Dumb? Yup. Reckless? Yup. Irresponsible? Yup.
But "despicable" is a bit over the top.

(I'm also curious as to how many times Clured checked out maps that other people took the trouble to pay for and pack, because ALL non-map carriers make a habit of doing this sooner or later, but I won't even go there).

[Marta]

Interestingly, yesterday I actually used map and compass skills for the first time in quite a while. The situation was not at all one I would have expected to need them either.

I was on a hike with a large-ish group in the Uwharries. Twelve miles over easy terrain. Nice weather, for a winter day. I don't have a good map of the area, and am not familiar with it, but the hike leaders had been on the route before, although not recently. The group was working from written description of the route and a crude line drawing "map." The trails are somewhat blazed and there are some signposts.

About halfway through the hike we took a side trip to a cemetary and got turned around trying to rejoin the trail. The group had a discussion of which way to go. We made a couple of forays along different trail forks.

Fortunately I had stuck a compass in my daypack so we were able to figure out that we were going the wrong direction, and which of the forks was the one we needed to be on, even using the incredibly crude "map." (My daughter and I were the only ones in the large group who had compasses with us.)

I had a major navigational misadventure a few years ago. Since then I carry maps and compass. I don't use them often, but when I need them, I have them.

Sure you can get away without carrying maps. If you're willing to cadge stuff (including information) off other hikers, you can get away without carrying a lot of things.

A suggestion--start off carrying a map of the first section you hike. Next section, no map. See how that feels to you. You may not miss it at all.

Without a map you're just walking along an alley in a maze. With a map, you can form a mental image of where you are in relationship with where you've just been, where you are about to go, and what you can see when you are standing at a viewpoint. A map expands your horizons.

[Lone Wolf]

LOLOL Wolf, I've never seen this side of you...... LOLOL

to be honest, after this week's event in georgia i'm seeing the irony and BS in people and life. i feel SO bad for this young lady and those close to her. she went for a hike with her pup... so sad

[River Runner]

to be honest, after this week's event in georgia i'm seeing the irony and BS in people and life. i feel SO bad for this young lady and those close to her. she went for a hike with her pup... so sad

I couldn't agree more L Wolf. I've done the same thing countless times. It really bothers me thinking about her, how she had graduated from college not long ago, and really was just beginning her adult life. Just tragic.

[wrongway_08]

Maps are for wussies. I never have used one and never will. I used one to start a fire once. Not to mention the 3 oz it adds to my pack. Come on your either going up or down on the AT, if your hiking flat land then thats how you know your lost. YOU MAPPERS SUCK AND NEED HELP.






Really maps are good to have along:
- you can bushwack easily if you have one.
- gives you something to look at while resting
- While sitting in camp gives you something to look at and it also lets you set up the next days hike.
- Find water sources along the way
- better able to get a idea of weather situations for hike (elevation = weather change)
- Some maps show the back woods roads.... easier hiking it your hurt
- easier to remember trails (for me at least) if i take the time to map out where site are and camping areas.

Bring them, the are worth it.

[The Doctor]

How many miles have you done on the trail???



Part A - If it's that bad, you're gonna wish you had that map when the first hiker that comes by had read your post and decided not to bring a map. What do you do? which way do you go??

Part B - only a complete maroooon would bother to write down all the road crossings and information a map contains onto another sheet of paper. Way too much information. You'd be spending weeks of time doing that.

Part C screams MOOCH. "I didn't bother to be smart enough to bring my own map so can I mooch off of yours for however long it takes me to figure out where I am and how I can get off this mountain? I'm not hurt that bad, but let me cut into your hike for a half hour or so and inconvenience you so I can get off the mountain safely."

Part D - No it's not a matter of going north and south. You're also going east and west as well. And knowing the elevation gains is a great way to plan your day around. You get to the next climb out of a gap, it's 7 pm. How long is the climb? Is it 3 miles or 500 ft.? Can you get it done before the sun sets or not?? A map could tell you that.

Every time I read a post from someone that not only doesn't use maps, but tries to encourage others to do the same, just makes me shake my head in wonder at the amount of unwise people there are out there. I don't know why I'm still surprised by that fact.


Weak Sauce Lil'Red: It's called a cell phone for emergencies! You can pick up an emergency signal almost anywhere on the trail. Don't act like a map is your only source of help! I bought a bunch of maps when I was a newbie hiker, now they just come in handy as x-tra toilet paper when i run out.

[Lone Wolf]

I bought a bunch of maps when I was a newbie hiker

was that last week sweetie?

[The Doctor]

was that last week sweetie?

Your just an angry old man, don't break you hip on the trail fogy!

[Lone Wolf]

c'mon girl. you can do better than that ;)

[The Doctor]

c'mon girl. you can do better than that ;)

Only geriatrics would find that funny, don't trust that fart old man it's really a turd!

[Kirby]

Weak Sauce Lil'Red: It's called a cell phone for emergencies! You can pick up an emergency signal almost anywhere on the trail. Don't act like a map is your only source of help! I bought a bunch of maps when I was a newbie hiker, now they just come in handy as x-tra toilet paper when i run out.

You clearly have your head shoved quite far up you a$$, which would give you an interesting viewpoint on things.

Just be sure, if you ever run into me on the trail, to not look at my map.

Kirby

[The Doctor]

You clearly have your head shoved quite far up you a$$, which would give you an interesting viewpoint on things.

Just be sure, if you ever run into me on the trail, to not look at my map.

Kirby

Don't take your aggression out on me, I'll be the one blazing past you as you gaze at your map in hopes it'll give you reach around!

[spittinpigeon]

Maps are heavy, but they're great for blue-blazing! And based on what I see here, if you don't carry them, people won't help you when you're injured. And if you do carry them, you become selfish and won't share them.
Ya know, hikers are the best people in the world.... until you put em' in front of a computer.

[bredler]

Don't take your aggression out on me, I'll be the one blazing past you as you gaze at your map in hopes it'll give you reach around!


Gadzooks! I think you have a severe chemical unbalance caused by an offset balls to brains ratio!! You need help quick!

Step One: Don't Be a Dick.
(okay, you're like 90% there now)
Step Two: Stop saying stupid crap on the internet.


...that's it!
Step Three: rejoice that you're not a dick anymore :banana

[Pedaling Fool]

...Ya know, hikers are the best people in the world.... until you put em' in front of a computer.
I'm starting to wonder how many here actually hike:-?

[Mags]

I dunno...

I'd trust a simple map and compass for emergencies rather than a cell phone (as the good doctor suggested).

Maps came in handy for me twice on the AT.

1) Massive blow downs due to a storm. Trail was obscured. The map saved me endless time bushwhacking.

2) The trail was flooded and well over my head. Rather than swim as some map-less thru-hikers did, I simply looked at the map and connected back to the trail via a road walk.

But I am a wimp. Perhaps burlier hikers would have stumbled and tried to find the trail. Really burly hikers would have swam the trail, too.

And if you view the AT more as a corridor rather than a single thee foot wide trail, maps are wonderful for planning your own route as well.

[fiddlehead]

I find it hard to believe that i've looked at 5 pages of posts on this thread and no one has said the obvious:
"Maps will be obsolete in a few more years"

You will look back at this thread in a few years and be amazed that you all argued this map vs. no map thing.

It won't be long before most of us will carry GPS's if you are not already.

Sure LW and Balt Jack will say they are useless and not necessary and they'll never carry one. (sorry guys but perhaps it's time for something better)

A map won't do you much good in a whiteout. Or when you are in a bushwhack where you don't know where you are cause you are totally lost and forgot which side of the trail you got off.

It's sort of like cell phones vs signal mirrors we were taught to carry in the old days (yes i was a boy scout and had my signal mirror along on my first AT hike in '77)

How many are carrying signal mirrors now?

Whistles? cell phone?
Any body wanna bet that cell phones outnumber both whistles and signal mirrors?

The times they are a'changin. Map makers are a dying breed with google earth around.

How long will it take before google earth will update live, on your handheld device complete with gps, compass, zoom control better than 7 1/2 minute quads, complete with buildings and yes live.

I don't have one of the newer gps that have the detailed and colorful maps built in them but i hear that they are as good as 7 1/2 minute quads.

I still have my old etrex and know how to use it. I need a map in conjunction with it but with the new ones with the maps built in, YOU DON"T NEED A MAP and a GPS. ( I hear some of them even have phones built in or is it vice versa)

Sorry to hijack the thread but it needed to be said and it's not always good to ignore progress.

I'll say it again: Maps will be obsolete in a few years. Maybe it's better to spend your money on a good GPS and forgo the expense of a map that often will only show a 10 mile corridor or even less.

[Mags]

O How many of you actually have experience with bushwacking?


More than most I suspect on this thread. :)

Also enough to know that a map shows where FS roads go, where alternate trails go, etc. Guidebooks do not.


Backtracking may be quicker. It may not. But a quick look at a map answers that question.

But, as mentioned, I am a bit of a softy. Backtracking may the more hard core thing to do.

[Lone Wolf]

I find it hard to believe that i've looked at 5 pages of posts on this thread and no one has said the obvious:
"Maps will be obsolete in a few more years"

You will look back at this thread in a few years and be amazed that you all argued this map vs. no map thing.

It won't be long before most of us will carry GPS's if you are not already.

Sure LW and Balt Jack will say they are useless and not necessary and they'll never carry one. (sorry guys but perhaps it's time for something better)

A map won't do you much good in a whiteout. Or when you are in a bushwhack where you don't know where you are cause you are totally lost and forgot which side of the trail you got off.

It's sort of like cell phones vs signal mirrors we were taught to carry in the old days (yes i was a boy scout and had my signal mirror along on my first AT hike in '77)

How many are carrying signal mirrors now?

Whistles? cell phone?
Any body wanna bet that cell phones outnumber both whistles and signal mirrors?

The times they are a'changin. Map makers are a dying breed with google earth around.

How long will it take before google earth will update live, on your handheld device complete with gps, compass, zoom control better than 7 1/2 minute quads, complete with buildings and yes live.

I don't have one of the newer gps that have the detailed and colorful maps built in them but i hear that they are as good as 7 1/2 minute quads.

I still have my old etrex and know how to use it. I need a map in conjunction with it but with the new ones with the maps built in, YOU DON"T NEED A MAP and a GPS. ( I hear some of them even have phones built in or is it vice versa)

Sorry to hijack the thread but it needed to be said and it's not always good to ignore progress.

I'll say it again: Maps will be obsolete in a few years. Maybe it's better to spend your money on a good GPS and forgo the expense of a map that often will only show a 10 mile corridor or even less.

can't believe you're a sellout to GPS, cell phones and other gadgets. W T F happens when your batteries die :)

[Kirby]

I have bushwacked a many times, both when trying to refind the trail(a lot of times on the AT). It is good to know how to "properly" bushwack(although there is not that much to it).

I try to avoid being put in a situation that requires me to bushwack.

Kirby

[Kirby]

can't believe you're a sellout to GPS, cell phones and other gadgets. W T F happens when your batteries die :)

A friendly hiker strolls along with their maps and points them in the right direction of course:rolleyes::cool:.

Kirby

[Mags]

"Maps will be obsolete in a few more years"




The technology of how a map is displayed may change, but the use of maps will not.


You mention a GPS w/ a map. Well, it is still using a map. :)

A GPS is useful. But it has limitations (batteries, lack of satellite coverage in deep forest and canyons, prone to malfunction in excessive cold/excessive heat) And the map function is nice, but the view is limited. It is usually quicker to pull out a map and get a big view than to putz around with small view of the GPS map.

The biggest use of the GPS is the elimination of the "WT Bleep Am I" factor. I use one on winter trips and above canyon. But I also use it conjunction with a map and compass as well. All three tools complement one another.

(And relying on a cell phone for emergencies is folly. Take one..but if it doesn't work, please know what to do!)

I suspect in the future maps may be some electronic paper type thing that can be updated easily. The fact is you often need the wide view of a map that you just don't get with the small screen on a GPS.

So maps being obsolete? Doubtful. Will how maps are made and utilized change? Probably.

[doggiebag]

With all due respect Fiddlehead ... I wouldn't put all my trust in electronics 100%. During times of national emergency they can easily shut down the GPS net without warning. Maps don't require batteries or constant vigilance against moisture or lightning strikes/static electricity damage. Land navigation using a compass and maps is an invaluable skill. Just like being able to build a fire using what's available. Being able to navigate using a compass/earth's magnetic field is a basic skill set that I would not abandon. When I used to work out in the field - we were taught how to navigate at night in blackout conditions - just using the luminous dial on the compass and counting our steps. Even in a white out old tech can still work.

Regards.

[fiddlehead]

can't believe you're a sellout to GPS, cell phones and other gadgets. W T F happens when your batteries die :)

call it what you like, i'm just keepin up with the times.

either carry extra batteries or one of those new "charge any digital device" gadgets that Rainman's been telling me about that he used on the CDT this year. Said they really work and charged all of his stuff from either 2 AA's or solar power when he had sun. He carried his usual powered speakers, cell phone, XM radio, GPS and 2 video cameras. Watch for his movie, He'll explain it all i think.

Ever try finding my sister in law's place in Bangkok without a GPS. good luck.

Ps. i've been working on a project here in Phuket using google earth and my old GPS designing a new trail here to cover all the high peaks. Can't imagine doing it the old fashioned way. the technology's there, why not use it?

[The Doctor]

Yeah I spent a good 350 on my GPS and it was about as useless as a map, i now use it as a driving utensil!

[take-a-knee]

I find it hard to believe that i've looked at 5 pages of posts on this thread and no one has said the obvious:
"Maps will be obsolete in a few more years"

You will look back at this thread in a few years and be amazed that you all argued this map vs. no map thing.

It won't be long before most of us will carry GPS's if you are not already.

Sure LW and Balt Jack will say they are useless and not necessary and they'll never carry one. (sorry guys but perhaps it's time for something better)

A map won't do you much good in a whiteout. Or when you are in a bushwhack where you don't know where you are cause you are totally lost and forgot which side of the trail you got off.

It's sort of like cell phones vs signal mirrors we were taught to carry in the old days (yes i was a boy scout and had my signal mirror along on my first AT hike in '77)

How many are carrying signal mirrors now?

Whistles? cell phone?
Any body wanna bet that cell phones outnumber both whistles and signal mirrors?

The times they are a'changin. Map makers are a dying breed with google earth around.

How long will it take before google earth will update live, on your handheld device complete with gps, compass, zoom control better than 7 1/2 minute quads, complete with buildings and yes live.

I don't have one of the newer gps that have the detailed and colorful maps built in them but i hear that they are as good as 7 1/2 minute quads.

I still have my old etrex and know how to use it. I need a map in conjunction with it but with the new ones with the maps built in, YOU DON"T NEED A MAP and a GPS. ( I hear some of them even have phones built in or is it vice versa)

Sorry to hijack the thread but it needed to be said and it's not always good to ignore progress.

I'll say it again: Maps will be obsolete in a few years. Maybe it's better to spend your money on a good GPS and forgo the expense of a map that often will only show a 10 mile corridor or even less.

Total BS. Maps will never be "replaced". Your "old etrex" with a map is so superior to any of these internal map gps's it isn't even a decent comparison. If a map is "too heavy" for you, you probably need medical attention...or a good workout routine. As Mags has already stated, a GPS's main function is intersection/resection, and I would add returning to a previous position in featureless terrain that precludes navigation by terrain association.

This is an excellent read on GPS use:

http://www.kifaru.net/GPSing.htm

Be sure and read the other three articles on map reading and land nav, you might learn something.

[bredler]

My dad and I are big into fishing and boating on the Chesapeake bay (which, if you've never seen it, is huge) and having the GPS there is awesome. We still keep the chart with us, and that used to be all we used. Then we got a GPS and used that in conjunction with the chart. Then we got a chartplotter GPS and let me tell you that it's awesome. Even navigating the same 40 mile stretch of bay for eight or ten years, you can get turned around because so many features on the shore look similar. With the chartplotter you know exactly where you are and where you need to/want to go.

GPS is a good option for sure.

[Montego]

When I thru-hike, maybe I'll just leave my maps at home since some here thinks they're worthless. Also, instead of spending big bucks on a GPS, I'll just hire a sherpa to go with me. That way when we both get lost, at least I'll have someone to talk to :D

BTW, I'm never lost. I always know exactly where I am. I just don't know, at times, where anything else is.

[doggiebag]

I was using a couple of Sherpas - until we got near Harpers Ferry. They took off with a couple of dancers from Baltimore. I believe they're working as bouncers in The Block these days. I never go for the bagain basement sherpas anymore. :D

[Montego]

I was using a couple of Sherpas - until we got near Harpers Ferry. They took off with a couple of dancers from Baltimore. I believe they're working as bouncers in The Block these days. I never go for the bagain basement sherpas anymore. :D

Awww darn, the sherpa was on sale tooooo!

[Appalachian Tater]

A copy of the Magna Carta went for over $20 million last year. I doubt books and maps are going anywhere anytime soon. If anything, computers and electronic data just make them more precious. People will probably just print their own books and customized maps.

[Tin Man]

I was using a couple of Sherpas - until we got near Harpers Ferry. They took off with a couple of dancers from Baltimore. I believe they're working as bouncers in The Block these days. I never go for the bagain basement sherpas anymore. :D

Definitely need 3 Sherpas in order to triangulate your position with any accuracy. :)

[River Runner]

Weak Sauce Lil'Red: It's called a cell phone for emergencies! You can pick up an emergency signal almost anywhere on the trail. Don't act like a map is your only source of help! I bought a bunch of maps when I was a newbie hiker, now they just come in handy as x-tra toilet paper when i run out.

What about the places that aren't almost anywhere? There are many areas of the AT I've hiked that don't have cell phone service. And a lot of hiking areas off the AT that don't even come close to having service.

I do agree that a map isn't the only source of help, but it can definitely be a good one.

[River Runner]

I find it hard to believe that i've looked at 5 pages of posts on this thread and no one has said the obvious:
"Maps will be obsolete in a few more years"

You will look back at this thread in a few years and be amazed that you all argued this map vs. no map thing.

It won't be long before most of us will carry GPS's if you are not already.

Sure LW and Balt Jack will say they are useless and not necessary and they'll never carry one. (sorry guys but perhaps it's time for something better)

A map won't do you much good in a whiteout. Or when you are in a bushwhack where you don't know where you are cause you are totally lost and forgot which side of the trail you got off.

It's sort of like cell phones vs signal mirrors we were taught to carry in the old days (yes i was a boy scout and had my signal mirror along on my first AT hike in '77)

How many are carrying signal mirrors now?

Whistles? cell phone?
Any body wanna bet that cell phones outnumber both whistles and signal mirrors?

The times they are a'changin. Map makers are a dying breed with google earth around.

How long will it take before google earth will update live, on your handheld device complete with gps, compass, zoom control better than 7 1/2 minute quads, complete with buildings and yes live.

I don't have one of the newer gps that have the detailed and colorful maps built in them but i hear that they are as good as 7 1/2 minute quads.

I still have my old etrex and know how to use it. I need a map in conjunction with it but with the new ones with the maps built in, YOU DON"T NEED A MAP and a GPS. ( I hear some of them even have phones built in or is it vice versa)

Sorry to hijack the thread but it needed to be said and it's not always good to ignore progress.

I'll say it again: Maps will be obsolete in a few years. Maybe it's better to spend your money on a good GPS and forgo the expense of a map that often will only show a 10 mile corridor or even less.

Hm.. I carry a signal mirror, whistle, and cell phone.

Don't have a GPS, but might get one someday, although the main thing I find them useful for is finding where you are if you aren't sure. From looking at some other hikers have shown me, the tiny screen is really annoying if I'm trying to get an overall picture of where I'm hiking. Seems to me the modern technology is best used in conjunction with the older methods.

For those that say maps are too heavy, how much does the GPS, spare battery, charger, etc. weigh compared to a map or two?

[Tin Man]

When GPS or whatever electronic technology becomes as light and reliable as a paper map, I will forgo the paper map. For now, I always carry the paper and when I feel like playing with a toy, I carry my GPS as well.

[doggiebag]

Definitely need 3 Sherpas in order to triangulate your position with any accuracy. :)
Until they mutiny and scatter in 3 different directions - taking the yaks. Though I can determine my location just using back azimuths of 2 distant objects. It's a bitch at night on the AT using standard land nav techniques - not to many lighted towers to get a fix. But I digress.

[doggiebag]

Hm.. I carry a signal mirror, whistle, and cell phone.

Don't have a GPS, but might get one someday, although the main thing I find them useful for is finding where you are if you aren't sure. From looking at some other hikers have shown me, the tiny screen is really annoying if I'm trying to get an overall picture of where I'm hiking. Seems to me the modern technology is best used in conjunction with the older methods.

For those that say maps are too heavy, how much does the GPS, spare battery, charger, etc. weigh compared to a map or two?

If you're a little foggy with using terrain association just using maps. Try to borrow a GPS in conjunction with your paper maps and spend a weekend or two checking your location on the GPS and observing how the physical terrain relates to your current location on the map. It's quite enlightening, and dare I say ... fun? When you get the hang of it - it's a cakewalk.

[clured]

to be honest, after this week's event in georgia i'm seeing the irony and BS in people and life. i feel SO bad for this young lady and those close to her. she went for a hike with her pup... so sad

Agreed, lwolf. Sorry if I sounded snooty, I didn't mean it that way. Cheers all, I'm just stirring the pot.

[River Runner]

If you're a little foggy with using terrain association just using maps. Try to borrow a GPS in conjunction with your paper maps and spend a weekend or two checking your location on the GPS and observing how the physical terrain relates to your current location on the map. It's quite enlightening, and dare I say ... fun? When you get the hang of it - it's a cakewalk.

I could see that. It's one reason I have considered getting a GPS.

[Roots]

You guys are killin' me!!! It's like an American Express card don't leave home without it. Maps are crucial. Try walking other trails without one!

[Bob S]

I have a Garmin Etrex Legend that is about 4-years old, It’s got a small B&W display (no color) it’s not as nice as lots of the newer GPS’s but it’s great for me. It’s waterproof, it runs for 20 hrs on a set of AA Batteries and works well under trees. It acquires a signal fix usually in under 1-min.
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p> </o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
The new ones do a lot more then an old one like I have. But when hiking do you really need color or have to have your GPS talk to you, or point to the closest fast food restaurant?
<o:p> </o:p>
I still like to have a map with me in case the GPS broke or quit for some reason. But in 4-years it’s been great to have, it will tell me where I’m at and no map can do that. At first I considered the map first and GPS second. Now the map stays in the pack and the GPS is the first thing to be used I love it. Technology is great and I for the most part embrace it, but I also plan for it’s breakdown by having the tried & true with me.
<o:p> </o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
Yes I still carry a whistle and a US Army signal mirror, always will.
<o:p> </o:p>
PS Even an older GPS bought of E-Bay for a good price will have years of life left in it.

[Appalachian Tater]

I have a Garmin Etrex Legend that is about 4-years old, It’s got a small B&W display (no color) it’s not as nice as lots of the newer GPS’s but it’s great for me. It’s waterproof, it runs for 20 hrs on a set of AA Batteries and works well under trees. It acquires a signal fix usually in under 1-min.
ffice:office" /><o>:p></o>:p>
<o>:p></o>:p>
The new ones do a lot more then an old one like I have. But when hiking do you really need color or have to have your GPS talk to you, or point to the closest fast food restaurant?
<o>:p></o>:p>
I still like to have a map with me in case the GPS broke or quit for some reason. But in 4-years it’s been great to have, it will tell me where I’m at and no map can do that. At first I considered the map first and GPS second. Now the map stays in the pack and the GPS is the first thing to be used I love it. Technology is great and I for the most part embrace it, but I also plan for it’s breakdown by having the tried & true with me.
<o>:p></o>:p>
<o>:p></o>:p>
Yes I still carry a whistle and a US Army signal mirror, always will.
<o>:p></o>:p>
PS Even an older GPS bought of E-Bay for a good price will have years of life left in it.

It's like you have the measles but nooooh, it's those damn smiley faces.

[Bob S]

It's like you have the measles but nooooh, it's those damn smiley faces.

I typed up my post in MS Word because my typing sucks. I have no idea why it put in all those faces?

[88BlueGT]

I always carry a map, even if its only an overnighter. I just couldnt justify not bringing one for the few oz's. There are many other ways that you could shave weight, not bringing a map shouldnt be one of them IMO.

[Pedaling Fool]

Agreed, lwolf. Sorry if I sounded snooty, I didn't mean it that way. Cheers all, I'm just stirring the pot.
I knew it!

[Deadeye]

?
<o:p></o:p>
I still like to have a map with me in case the GPS broke or quit for some reason. But in 4-years it’s been great to have, it will tell me where I’m at and no map can do that.


I don't know what kind of maps you're using, Smilin' Bob, but mine sure tell me exactly where I am.

[Bob S]

I don't know what kind of maps you're using, Smilin' Bob, but mine sure tell me exactly where I am.


They do.???


I thought you had to read the map and then apply it to your surroundings to figure out where exactly you are. Does your map have a little blinking light on it that moves with you as you walk to tell you where you are? That sounds so cool, where can I get a map like that? Oh wait, I already have one, it’s called a GPS…



Just having some fun with you, I’m a guy I love maps and like to look at them. Many times I use them with the GPS, but also a lot more times I just use the GPS. I find I use the map more at home looking over an area and becoming familiar with it before I even go out. And then use the GPS (with it’s less detailed map and smaller screen) while out hiking to keep abreast of my exact position and progress. Ideally, a person should use both GPS and a map & compass. I don’t run the GPS all the time while hiking to save batteries, the compass comes into play for a quick check.

[dessertrat]

I can't tell you how many people who "don't need a map" are happy to take a quick glance at mine out on the trail. (Map, that is).

[Pedaling Fool]

I can't tell you how many people who "don't need a map" are happy to take a quick glance at mine out on the trail. (Map, that is).
I hear that; always had someone looking over my shoulder when I had it out. And some asked, on a recurring basis, if they could check it out.

[uwharriebackpacker]

same here on other folks peepin at my maps. also, on numerous occasions i cross paths with a withered hiker who says " how far is the next spring ?" " wheres the next road ? " about how far is the next shelter ?" or my favorite..." am i going the right way to get to....?" i dont mind helping out by any means but.....it takes time out of my hike to stop, pull my map out and answer what i can. if these folks would carry a map/compass and know how to use them IMO they would be more self sufficient. its more satisfying to answer your own ?'s sometimes.

[rafe]

same here on other folks peepin at my maps. also, on numerous occasions i cross paths with a withered hiker who says " how far is the next spring ?"

It's not like you owe them a thoroughly-researched answer, you know. If you don't want to be bothered, shrug your shoulders, say "I don't know" and move on.

Help 'em out if you feel like it or don't if you don't. No point whining about it, either way.

Oh and by the way... :welcome to Whiteblaze. ;)

[Marta]

same here on other folks peepin at my maps. also, on numerous occasions i cross paths with a withered hiker who says " how far is the next spring ?" " wheres the next road ? " about how far is the next shelter ?" or my favorite..." am i going the right way to get to....?" i dont mind helping out by any means but.....it takes time out of my hike to stop, pull my map out and answer what i can. if these folks would carry a map/compass and know how to use them IMO they would be more self sufficient. its more satisfying to answer your own ?'s sometimes.

Welcome to Whiteblaze!

What do do you think is the best map of the Uwharries? That's a confusing area!

[uwharriebackpacker]

thanks terrapin. im not whining about helping someone out really. i guess its just not in my nature to deny knowing or deny helping out if its within reason. i guess working with the scouts and being on rescue squad too many yrs to not help. after helping several they have stated they would coonsider going over to the map carrier side when you actually show them all the possibilities you have by having and knowinghow to use them.

[uwharriebackpacker]

marta, i know what you mean about the area being confusing and i live here. this area is becoming very popular now with its location and now having hiker, mtn. bike, 4x4, and horse trails. with that many trails going every which way some tend to cross and they all arent marked they best by category. a fellow named don childrey ( who is from here also) wrote a guidebook for the uwharrie mtns. and wilderness areas. this is a great book to pick up and read. it has all the different trails and usages clearly marked and also suggested trips, loops, mileages. gemini (i think thats spelled right) makes a map that alot of convience stores in the area carry for the uwharrie national forest thats a preety good map. you could also check out the USFS office in troy. they also have area maps for sale. if u wanna know anything else or more specific drop me a message and i will be glad to help in any way i can.
don childreys book can be pick up at alot of the gear shops around charlotte or in the rei in g'boro.

[rafe]

thanks terrapin. im not whining about helping someone out really. i guess its just not in my nature to deny knowing or deny helping out if its within reason. i guess working with the scouts and being on rescue squad too many yrs to not help. after helping several they have stated they would coonsider going over to the map carrier side when you actually show them all the possibilities you have by having and knowinghow to use them.

There's a lot of sharing that goes on between long-distance hikers. And that's a good thing, IMO. There are things I carry that others consider non-essential. And things I don't carry that others consider essential. So occasionally it happens that someone else has something I need (or could use) and vice-versa. I guess some might call that karma.

[Jack Tarlin]

Karma?

When it comes to maps, it ain't "karma."

The people who don't carry maps know they can always take advantage of other people.

This ain't karma. It is, instead, the classic definition of free-loading and mooching.

It ain't cool when people do it with food, cigarettes, or anything else. Running out of something once in awhile and being lucky enough to have a fellow hiker help you out of a jam is one thing. But to habitually borrow stuff from other hikers because you were too lazy or too cheap to properly equip yourself is just wrong.

[Lone Wolf]

karma is some buddhist bs or was it a car? karma ghia?

[Tin Man]

karma is some buddhist bs

espoused by hippies, no doubt

[rafe]

When it comes to maps, it ain't "karma."


Nor did anyone say it was... but thanks for the lecture, anyway. :rolleyes:

[Jack Tarlin]

What lecture?

A mooch is a mooch.

You wanna stick up for these people, have at it, but be aware that many folks feel differently.

[rafe]

What lecture?

A mooch is a mooch.

You wanna stick up for these people, have at it, but be aware that many folks feel differently.

I say, Jack, if you're truly interested in what I have to say on the matter, you might try reading the thread before shooting off your piehole. ;)

[The Old Fhart]

Lone Wolf-"karma is some buddhist bs or was it a car? karma ghia?"I once saw an opera singer getting into her Carmen gear.:D

[Jack Tarlin]

Terrapin:

What in God's name ever gave you the impression that I was truly interested in your opinion on anything? :D

[Lone Wolf]

where's the goldang popcorn smiley?! :D:banana

[Marta]

where's the goldang popcorn smiley?! :D:banana

I think the popcorn smiley would quickly pass the dancing banana in popularity. And usefulness.

[Tin Man]

No popcorn needed. It's just terrapin looking for recognition as usual. ;)

[rafe]

Terrapin:

What in God's name ever gave you the impression that I was truly interested in your opinion on anything? :D

Forgive me. It seems Messages # 129 and 133 in this thread were posted by someone pretending to be "Jack Tarlin." I guess your account's been hijacked. Probably by Bfitz. Again. :D

[Jack Tarlin]

Um, note to Terrapin: Those posts you cited weren't intended to show how INTERESTING your comments were in my eyes.

They were made in order to show how FOOLISH they were.

Hope this clears things up for you.

[Lone Wolf]

:::wolf seen munching pop corn, sippin' suds:::

[woodsy]

:::wolf seen munching pop corn, sippin' suds:::
Can I have some? I forgot mine:rolleyes::D Have a map i can look at? I don't know where i am or even if i'm going in the right direction:rolleyes::D

[doggiebag]

::doggiebag decides to delay the shower - content with scratching himself while waiting for the fireworks::

[The Old Fhart]

_terrapin_"I say, Jack, if you're truly interested in what I have to say..."

Jack Tarlin-"Um, note to Terrapin:...."I think I'll join LW and Woodsy "munching pop corn, sippin' suds". This is better than the Itchy and Scratchy show!:D

[rafe]

Sorry to disappoint all you wankers. It may be slow day here in Beantown, but a flame fest with the estimable Mister Tarlin is not on my to-do list.

[Tin Man]

See, no popcorn needed. That turtle doo wasn't going to fly. http://hikinghq.net/forum/images/smilies2/trytofly.gif

[rafe]

No popcorn needed. It's just terrapin looking for recognition as usual. ;)


Uh huh. Posts to this thread as of 3 PM today:

http://www.terrapinphoto.com/tinmanposts.jpg

[Tin Man]

#posts means nothing. I was trying to help casual observers realize the importance of carrying a map, not going off on some voodo karma thingee.

[Jack Tarlin]

So some of us have posted here previously.

So what?

Go back and read comment #2, above, my first post on this thread.

It says it all.

Terrapin, don't you have anything better to do with your time than to keep track of how many times people have commented on a thread?

Or maybe you don't.

Sorry, but this sure seems like kind of a lame-ass way to spend one's time.

You need to get out more.

[Tin Man]

Terp's first post on this thread was to knock a newbie about whining, then saying welcome to WB. Nice! :rolleyes:

[rafe]

Terp's first post on this thread was to knock a newbie about whining, then saying welcome to WB. Nice! :rolleyes:

The exchange between me and said newbie was resolved amicably by the second go-round. Unlike the rest of you wankers, who have been piling on like drunken Romans at the coliseum, expecting to be amused by a slugfest between me and the estimable Mister Tarlin. Get a life.

[max patch]

Uh oh.

Terrapin's about to take his ball and go home. Again.

[uwharriebackpacker]

i wasnt meaning to sound whiny....just pisses me off when a "PRO" of a thru hiker...or so they think they are comes up ill prepared for a situation that they think will never happen then they become leechs to anyone with the "things" they said they dont need to carry b/c they can follow a magic white blaze.

[max patch]

Unlike the rest of you wankers,

We need WANKER smilie.

[Tin Man]

The exchange between me and said newbie was resolved amicably by the second go-round. Unlike the rest of you wankers, who have been piling on like drunken Romans at the coliseum, expecting to be amused by a slugfest between me and the estimable Mister Tarlin. Get a life.

Too funny. Too bad I don't have time to find a smilie digging a deeper hole to nowhere.

[Lone Wolf]

that douchebag keeps callin' us wankers. what'a wanker anyway?:-?

[Tin Man]

i wasnt meaning to sound whiny....just pisses me off when a "PRO" of a thru hiker...or so they think they are comes up ill prepared for a situation that they think will never happen then they become leechs to anyone with the "things" they said they dont need to carry b/c they can follow a magic white blaze.

You weren't whining, just observing. Some thru-hikers just have a holier-than-thou attitude, until they get caught in one of their own traps. Next thing you hear is excuses.

[mudhead]

We need WANKER smilie.
Or a wank stamp.

that douchebag keeps callin' us wankers. what'a wanker anyway?:-?

Carries gas to the Exxon/Mobil.

[Lone Wolf]

Carries gas to the Exxon/Mobil.

what is the Exxon/Mobil?

[oldfivetango]

that douchebag keeps callin' us wankers. what'a wanker anyway?:-?

Uh,may I ask just what a uwharrie is?
And,I get the feeling you guys are going to to tell me my mapdana
is not suffiecient?I LUV the concept of the Mapdana.
Before anyone beats me up over all this-I do have the maps for the
southern half.
Oldfivetango

[Lone Wolf]

Uh,may I ask just what a uwharrie is?


http://www.cs.unca.edu/nfsnc/recreation/uwharrie/

[woodsy]

.......................
(http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=wanker)

[The Old Fhart]

Lone Wolf-"what'a wanker anyway?:-?"The explanation is in this short video (http://www.veoh.com/videos/v420158SKK8HtNY).

[Marta]

Uh,may I ask just what a uwharrie is?

The Uwharries are some very old mountains east in central NC. They're much older (and lower) than the Appalachians. There's a National Forest there with hiking and biking trails. It's mostly wooded, and the trails are sort of maze-like. There are no features that really help you orient yourself when you're hiking. It's an interesting navigational challenge. A good map would be a Good Thing.

[mudhead]

what is the Exxon/Mobil?

What they got in your neck of the woods? Esso?

My attempt at lame humor. The 18 wheeler that hauls gas=nasally spoken tanker.

Guess I'll go make the rounds and shovel snow.

[uwharriebackpacker]

thanks for putting that in for me wolf. if you check that out tango you will see where i get my name. i grew up in the village named uwharrie right in the middle of the national forest.

[Lone Wolf]

Carries gas to the Exxon/Mobil.

what does this mean. makes no sense, who/what carries gas to the Exonn/Mobil what?

[Tin Man]

http://www.cs.unca.edu/nfsnc/recreation/uwharrie/

That reminds me. Thanks LW for the history channel recommendation last night: Hillbilly the Real Story. Very interesting.

[Blissful]

Magic white blazes have a habit of disappearing in unforecasted snowfalls, esp when the wind plasters tree trunks with snow and covers the blazes.

And then there are magic white blazes in PA - that um, are also the boundaries to the state game lands and get confusing in areas.

And then the magically disappearing white blazes at road and road trace crossings - which are many, leaving you to wonder which way to go.

And the wind and rain and other nasty weather of the Whites that can force you off the summits...

Carry maps.

[Wilson]

UBP, right there at Mullinaxs store? My kind of place.

[uwharriebackpacker]

yea wilson, about a half mile from there. do u know the area ?

[Wilson]

I've spent more time on the Uwharrie trail than any other trail.
Took my wife there on our first hike, proposed to her on Lake Tillery couple years later. live in Kannapolis.

[River Runner]

The explanation is in this short video (http://www.atomfilms.com/film/angry_kid2_wanker.jsp). You do have to watch an ad for a movie first, but it is worth the wait.

Or available here, no ad.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wanker

[envirodiver]

Wow I feel really old and inadequate. First I feel the need for a map. Guess I should just get in my vehicle, ask directions to the trailhead, hope it's the right one and take off. But, then I guess if the only hiking you'll ever do is on the AT and you want to be a zombie that really doesn't know where they are (other than on the AT) and yet is able to follow the blazes (hmmm sounds like a lemming, hope nobody ever plays a trick and turns the blazes into the water, a bunch of folks may drown) and doesn't know how to read a compass or a map anyway it doesn't matter.

Then when I have consigned myself to being a scared wussie hiker that needs (or wants) a map, I also feel the need for a compass I don't take a stove I burn dinosaur crap, it burns well.

Bottom line who cares? Why does anyone care if I take a map and compass? New tech vs. old tech, I'm holding off on a GPS, cause I just don't want too, I like looking at the map and trying to pinpoint my location. Course I went with Beta instead of VHS several years ago and that worked out well. I still refer to CDs as records. I guess I'll just shuffle off to eat some more prunes.

I sure don't care if someone else doesn't want to take them. If they don't and get lost I'll still help them, if they ask.

[dessertrat]

I've spent more time on the Uwharrie trail than any other trail.
Took my wife there on our first hike, proposed to her on Lake Tillery couple years later. live in Kannapolis.

Now I know where my town's K went. . . :(

[whitefoot_hp]

you will need a map, along with a SETI satellite to communicate w/ aliens.

[The Doctor]

Yep, I can think of a dozen things a map can double for:
1) Extra TP when out
2) Waterproof Hat when folded correctly
3) Mini-tarp for vertical rain
4) Firestarter when no dry kindling
5) Vapor Barrier for a single shoe/boot
6) Ground tarp for head only
7) Foldable flickable football when bored at camp
8) Sign for bumbing a hitch(Sharpie not inclusive)
9) Loin Cloth when clothes are drying or on hike naked day
10) Pack Cover for rainy days on small packs
11) Water transport/diversion into bottle when levels are to low to dip
12) Damn I only got 11

[The Old Fhart]

The Doctor-Yep, I can think of a dozen things a map can double for:
1) Extra TP when out
2) Waterproof Hat when folded correctly
...The feature that would make a map function properly for #2 would make it unsuitable for #1.;)

[Bearpaw]

Too funny. Too bad I don't have time to find a smilie digging a deeper hole to nowhere.
Try this one..... http://www.appalachiantrailservices.com/pics/smilies/beatdeadhorse5.gif

[rafe]

Funny about GPS units. The headline story of my hometown newspaper this week is about GPS systems being stolen out of cars. It seems the GPS doesn't even need to be installed. The thieves see the empty GPS mount and figure the GPS unit itself is hidden in the center console or glovebox.

[whitefoot_hp]

Step One: Don't Be a Dick.
(okay, you're like 90% there now)
Step Two: Stop saying stupid crap on the internet.


...that's it!
Step Three: rejoice that you're not a dick anymore :banana


but step one and step two are the means for which i find the internet the most useful

[Jack Tarlin]

Hey, Terrapin, have you been indulging in liquid courage this afternoon or something? Or sharing scrips with Roger Clemens?

You're really John Wayne-ing it today.....calling people wankers, demanding that they shut their pieholes, etc.

Hate to break the news to you, pal, but in person, I bet you're a bit meeker. In fact, in person, I bet you couldn't knock holes in a Chinese lantern unless you enlisted the local girl's rugby club to lend a hand.

In other words, tone down the rhetoric, bub, unless you wanna look silly.

Everyone's talks a little bold on the Internet, Terrapin, but lately you've gone way over the top.

Chuck Norris you ain't, and whoever the Sheriff is in these parts, it sure isn't you.

Walk Tall, Terrapin. Just walk a litle humbler, tough guy. You ain't fooling anybody. Problem with people who talk trash like that is sooner or later they're asked to do so in person, and unless Rosie O'Donell is available as your wingman, Terrapin, you'll have a little problem.

That's in for now, Sheriff, it's time to get outta Dodge.

[Lone Wolf]

dammit! i'm outa popcorn! beer will do

[rafe]

For Mister Tarlin...

pro·jec·tion http://cache.lexico.com/g/d/premium.gif http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pnghttp://cache.lexico.com/g/d/speaker.gif (https://secure.reference.com/premium/login.html?rd=2&u=http%3A%2F%2Fdictionary.reference.com%2Fbrowse%2 Fprojection) /prəˈdʒɛkhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngʃən/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[pruh-jek-shuhhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngn] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation –noun 1.a projecting or protruding part. 2.the state or fact of jutting out or protruding. 3.a causing to jut or protrude. 4.the act, process, or result of projecting. 5.Cartography. a systematic construction of lines drawn on a plane surface representative of and corresponding to the meridians and parallels of the curved surface of the earth or celestial sphere. 6.Photography. a.the act of reproducing on a surface, by optical means, a remote image on a film, slide, etc. b.an image so reproduced. 7.the act of visualizing and regarding an idea or the like as an objective reality. 8.something that is so visualized and regarded. 9.calculation of some future thing: They fell short of their projection for the rate of growth. 10.the act of communicating distinctly and forcefully to an audience. 11.Psychology. a.the tendency to ascribe to another person feelings, thoughts, or attitudes present in oneself, or to regard external reality as embodying such feelings, thoughts, etc., in some way. b.Psychoanalysis. such an ascription relieving the ego of a sense of guilt or other intolerable feeling. 12.the act of planning or scheming. 13.Alchemy. the casting of the powder of philosophers' stone upon metal in fusion, to transmute it into gold or silver.

[Jack Tarlin]

What are you saying......that you're "projecting" yourself as Chuck Norris?

Or are you merely bragging that you know how to use a dictionary?

In other case, I can't really see what your last post adds to the present discussion.

Try again, Sheriff, your weapons are half cocked, in addition to their owner.

[Montego]

http://www.appalachiantrailservices.com/pics/smilies/sleep1.gif

[bigboots]

...unless Rosie O'Donell is available as your wingman, Terrapin, you'll have a little problem.

You'll have one BIG problem if she's your wingman...:eek:

Bigboots

[Lone Wolf]

What are you saying......that you're "projecting" yourself as Chuck Norris?

Or are you merely bragging that you know how to use a dictionary?

In other case, I can't really see what your last post adds to the present discussion.

Try again, Sheriff, your weapons are half cocked, in addition to their owner.

he watches dr. phil obviously

[Jack Tarlin]

Geez, wasn't Terrapin the guy who, in Post #146, said:

"It may be a slow day in Beantown, but a flame fest with the estimable Mister Tarlin is not on my to-do list."

Good thinking.

Cuz he'd lose. Engaging in a battle of wits with Terrapin is like playing tetherball with Jabba the Hut. Not exactly a major challenge......kinda hard to get a good swing in when your arms are only a foot long.

But keep plugging, Terr. Even a blind pig manages to trip over the odd truffle once every year or two. :D

[rafe]

Give it a rest, Jack.

[Tin Man]

Geez, wasn't Terrapin the guy who, in Post #146, said:

"It may be a slow day in Beantown, but a flame fest with the estimable Mister Tarlin is not on my to-do list."

Good thinking.

Cuz he'd lose. Engaging in a battle of wits with Terrapin is like playing tetherball with Jabba the Hut. Not exactly a major challenge......kinda hard to get a good swing in when your arms are only a foot long.

But keep plugging, Terr. Even a blind pig manages to trip over the odd truffle once every year or two. :D


Give it a rest, Jack.

Lost, I'd say. Again. As usual. :D

[Jack Tarlin]

Aw, you peevish, tough guy? Or are your little arms tired from missing the ball?

"Give it a rest," he says.

Fact is, you talked trash all day long today, and when someone called you on it, you have two standard responses.......you either demand that people give it a rest, or more likely, you'll leave the website to go sulk for awhile.

Bravo.

Don't let the doors hit ya on the way out.

"Come Back, Shane!!!"

Or better yet, don't. :D

[Lone Wolf]

ok. enuf is enuf. everybody stop sniping at each other. can't we all just get along?

[Jack Tarlin]

Sure. The thread is about maps and whether or not one should carry one. I think I pretty much covered it in post #2, above, but if people wanna get back on track, I'm all for it.

[The Old Fhart]

A Garmin 60CSx GPS can project a waypoint in a direction and distance from its current location by following these steps:

1. Press and hold the 'Mark' button.
2. Next press the 'Menu' button, select "Project Waypoint", and press 'Enter'.
3. Enter the degree and distance that to place the waypoint from the current location.
4. Select "OK" at the bottom right corner to save this projection.
+++++++++++++++++++
I'm sorry, what was this thread about?

[Wilson]

"Now I know where my town's K went. . . :("

We'll give it back Dessertrat...Annapolis- greek for city of Anne
..........................................Kannapol is- greek for city of looms:o

[GGS2]

Thing about blazes is...
1. They always seem to be there when you can see the tread clearly, there are no confusing junctions, the weather is fine and everything is just peachy.
2. They never seem to be there when there is a massive braid swamp, there are two (or more) equally probable forks in the tread, its pissing rain (snow, sleet, you name it) or you've been walking a road for how long? and it seems that there should be a trailhead around here, and you haven't seen a blaze in how long?
3. Trees grow, blazes spread and gradually fade...
4. Trees fall down, especially nice big ones at trail jinks and junctions.
5. The blazes were placed in the bright sunshine, but now its foggy, dark, wet...
6. What? The trail goes where? Up (down) there!!!?
7. What colour is that blaze, anyway?
8. There is an inch or more of snow (water, mud, ice...) on the ground and the blazes are painted on the rocks.
9. You come out of a beautifully blazed section to a road crossing, and there is no blaze in view, and no double at the exit, either.
10. The double has both blazes exactly vertical, and theres no clue in the tread.
11. Am I on the relo or the main trail?
12. Who's the damn maintainer on this section?
13. Am I there yet? Bloody H, my feet hurt. What's this next section like? Where does this road go, anyway? Anyone?
I've hiked with maps and without them. Without is better when you don't need them. With is way better when you do need them, which is whenever you get confused. Do I get confused? Me? 'Course not.

[ScottP]

Q: Is a map necessary?
A: No, but neither are you.

Maps are nice to have along. It's just a shame that no thru-hiker specific maps exist comparable to those that are in the PCT guidebooks.

[rafe]

I'll say it again: Maps will be obsolete in a few years. Maybe it's better to spend your money on a good GPS and forgo the expense of a map that often will only show a 10 mile corridor or even less.

Not sure if this is exactly analogous, but the Internet didn't exactly put books out of business. Hard to find a parking spot at my local Barnes & Nobles most weekend nights. I'm an old phart, I guess. Still haven't bought my first MP3 player or GPS.

[The Doctor]

The feature that would make a map function properly for #2 would make it unsuitable for #1.;)

True, very very true. I like your way of thinking, it saves a mess in the end. Wisdom is certainly a virtue.

[gumball]

We carry maps. Somethings are worth being weight-conscious about, I guess, but those things relative to safety (in our minds) aren't on our list of things to leave behind. But that's just us.

Gum

[Colter]

Lots of experienced people don't carry maps on the AT. I didn't. I hiked the whole thing. It was easy to follow the trail. If I took a wrong fork for a few hundred yards I just backtracked. If I would have somehow gotten way off the trail I am completely confident I could have found my way back. I had a compass and everything else I needed to survive on my back. I never missed maps at all. I've been on plenty of other hikes where I considered maps to be essential and not bringing them would have been foolhardy in my opinion. It's all about evaluating risk and risk management. I largely agree with what Fiddlehead has said.

I have no problem with other people bringing maps on the AT. If I were to hike the AT again I most assuredly wouldn't carry maps. Please don't be angry with me. ;)

[Jack Tarlin]

I'm glad you had a compass, Colter, but what use would it have been without a map? :-?

[Lyle]

Is a map necessary to hike the AT - probably not, in 98% of the cases. Even if you get into trouble, you can generally find a way out.

Is a map strongly advised? - Definitely! For added enjoyment of knowing what some of the surrounding area offers, for seeing the lay of the land, for finding the quickest/easiest way to services if needed. DO COUNT ON USING OTHER HIKER's MAPS! If you want to look at a map, bring it with you! This is just good trail etiquette.

I would say data book and maps before just the companion or thru-hiker guide.

my $0.02 worth

[dessertrat]

Thanks Lyle, for saying just about all that needs to be said on the topic. Although I think you meant to write "do NOT count on using other hiker's maps"

[jessicacomp]

I've been planning on getting maps before I thru-hike, and while there is a thread out it, I'll ask- $200 for all the maps on the ATC page...is that what most people typically buy or do you buy them seperately, or what? It just seems like a lot for maps, but I'd certainly spend it rather than not have anything.

[Jack Tarlin]

Your best bet is to buy the whole set from the ATC between Thanksgiving and Christmas, when they are on sale.

You'll also save a lot of money if you are a member of the ATC.

[Kirby]

However, since you are hiking this year, you will either have to borrow them from someone, buy them at retail price from the ATC, or as Jack said, become a member and save some money.

Kirby

[jessicacomp]

well, I cant really do that since my thru-hike will be done by then.
but thank you for the help anyway. I am a member of the ATC, so I guess that should help with the cost. It still just seems really pricey in comparison to some of the other books/guides they have for sale.

[Colter]

I'm glad you had a compass, Colter, but what use would it have been without a map? :-?

I have used a compass to straighten myself out dozens of times without using a map. It was never an issue on the AT because I was never really "turned around." That was for several reasons, one is that the trail is marked so well and almost always obvious, another is that the trail tends to run the ridges.

Many, many times out in the woods or boonies I have been turned around without a map and used a compass to find my way out, stress free. If wandering randomly as I often do while hunting, I have to be aware of the general lay of the land in truly "big country." (East of me is the Blackfoot River, south of me is County Road 20.) Most of the AT isn't truly "big country" because ANY direction you head will bring you to civilization relatively quickly. And I was never wandering randomly on the AT.

As you well know, Maine is the area where people are most likely to get really lost on the AT. A likely scenario would be that someone went off the trail a couple hundred yards to find a nice campsite, and realized in the morning that they didn't know which way the trail was. Using the compass I can easily find the trail by heading straight east for a 1/4 mile, for example, then head back to my campsite and head straight west and repeat until I find the trail.

I have parachuted to fires in the middle of nowhere, as in a couple hundred miles or more from the nearest road in Alaska, often with no idea of where I was, with no map and only a compass and I never got seriously lost once. Lots of times this was in the spruce flats where you couldn't see any landmarks, and of course eventually I was usually there long enough so the fire was out so I couldn't orient to the smoke. In a situation like that, if I was heading to a distant unknown and unfamiliar point, THEN I truly needed to know where I was to start with and have a map. Or maybe a GPS and radio. Nowadays in the deep wilderness I always carry a GPS (I still wouldn't on the AT.) But that's just me.

I'm sure my skills are no better than yours Jack, and I don't mind if you carry maps or if others do, too.

"Map looking" seem to be an issue. I agree, no one should depend on other's maps nor demand to look a them. Nor should map carriers insist that other people "Check out my profile map. SERIOUSLY dude!" ;)

[Jack Tarlin]

Jessica:

My mistake. I overlooked that you are hiking this year, so waiting til November to get your maps is obviously not an option.

You might also buy a used set from a former hiker; you might want to place an ad here at WB, or check out some other AT sites. Map sets also crop up on E-Bay now and again.

If you buy a used set, make sure that it's complete, and that it's reasonably current, so that you have the most up-to-date maps as possible.

[Jack Tarlin]

Colter's post was informative and worth reading.

A few quick thoughts: It is evident that he has outdoor skills that are vastly superior to most of the folks who hike on the A.T. With that kind of background, he seems to function just fine without maps.

But I submit that he is a special case.

I've lost track of how many times I've helped to find lost hikers on or near the A.T., or have heard from others about searches and rescues that they were involved with.

These searches, without exception, involved major (and in some cases, dangerous) efforts to assist hikers who had been travelling without maps.

In short, these searches and efforts were needless......they shouldn't have happened.

In most cases, and for most people, travelling mapless in the backcountry is highly inadvisable.

[dessertrat]

A compass is useful if it is cloudy, or there is a lot of tree cover, I guess. I do carry both map and compass on any trip. I very seldom use a compass unless it is raining and I don't remember which way I was going. (If the sun is shining and I know what time it is, I can tell east from west).

[Tin Man]

In most cases, and for most people, travelling mapless in the backcountry is highly inadvisable.

Amen. I don't even know why this is a discussion topic. Maps are light and inexpensive. One can easily save weight or money elsewhere before forgoing a good map.

[jessicacomp]

Jessica:

My mistake. I overlooked that you are hiking this year, so waiting til November to get your maps is obviously not an option.

You might also buy a used set from a former hiker; you might want to place an ad here at WB, or check out some other AT sites. Map sets also crop up on E-Bay now and again.

If you buy a used set, make sure that it's complete, and that it's reasonably current, so that you have the most up-to-date maps as possible.

thanks so much, I never really use ebay, but I looked up the maps upon your suggestion, and found a complete set of maps/guides for only $100. :)

[SunnyWalker]

I found the maps I had for the AT really handy for finding water. some other people one time were planning their day/night around the guidebook that said water was only at so-and-so. they asked me, I told them well the map here shows water at etc. I was right. I don't know what they did. So they were very handy in the practical sense. In an emergency you need a map.

[Rockhound]

ALWAYS carry a map when hiking on trails. You never know when an emergency will arise and you'll need to find the quickest way to a road/town. To hike without a map is irresponsible and foolish. Fact.
Oh I'm sure I'll get blasted by Lonewolf and others for this but yes there are white blazes every quarter mile or so. It's tough to get lost on the AT. I feel a guidebook is sufficient. They list all the road crossings, towns, medical services etc...Hiking the PCT or the CDT is another story but as far as the AT is concerned, if you're carrying a guidebook maps are superfulous. I'm ready for my scathing. Bring it on.

[Rockhound]

thanks so much, I never really use ebay, but I looked up the maps upon your suggestion, and found a complete set of maps/guides for only $100. :)
A guidebook is only $15

[Lone Wolf]

Oh I'm sure I'll get blasted by Lonewolf and others for this but yes there are white blazes every quarter mile or so. It's tough to get lost on the AT. I feel a guidebook is sufficient. They list all the road crossings, towns, medical services etc...Hiking the PCT or the CDT is another story but as far as the AT is concerned, if you're carrying a guidebook maps are superfulous. I'm ready for my scathing. Bring it on.

whatever. lousy advice you're giving

[Rockhound]

LOL. Lonewolf, the voice of reason. Wonders never cease

[Rockhound]

ok. enuf is enuf. everybody stop sniping at each other. can't we all just get along?
the voice of reason

[faarside]

You all make good points. I guess I forgot to mention a few things. I already have guide and data books that show highways and whatnot. I am trying cut a bunch of weight, so I was trying to figure out which are more important.

Not tryin' to plug any particular products, but a good guide book PLUS a map set are what you should have on hand. Have a look at these:

1) "Appalachian Pages"
(http://www.campmor.com/outdoor/gear/Product___52900)

-OR-

2) "Appalachian Trail Thru-Hikers Companion"
http://www.campmor.com/outdoor/gear/Product___70115

are excellent portable sources of information. Add to the book something like:

3) "AntiGravityGear's Mapdana 4-Map set of the AT"
http://www.campmor.com/outdoor/gear/Product___23996
http://www.campmor.com/outdoor/gear/Product___23997
http://www.campmor.com/outdoor/gear/Product___23998
http://www.campmor.com/outdoor/gear/Product___23999

and you should have a good starting point.

Happy Trails.

[JAK]

Besides the obvious safety reasons, maps are fun.
Hiking without a map is like, I dunno, Paris without a lover.

[JAK]

why we need maps...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QUojf73CfU

[JAK]

why we need maps...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbOkMW_KiXc

[doggiebag]

why we need maps...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QUojf73CfU

*** dude? There's nothing about land nav in that clip.

[JAK]

why we need maps...

Frozen Ships

When if I was ever so ever young,
If ever I knew how to find just one,
I would toss her afar, enough to make
our soft snow angels on a winter lake.

The snow though would melt so upon my wrists,
Pull my shattered veins through her fingertips,
Leave my emptied heart on her emptied lips
our souls sailing skyward on frozen ships.

[kayak karl]

Besides the obvious safety reasons, maps are fun.
Hiking without a map is like, I dunno, Paris without a lover.
what kind of map do you have:confused: can it be BLOWN UP:D

[doggiebag]

why we need maps...

Frozen Ships

When if I was ever so ever young,
If ever I knew how to find just one,
I would toss her afar, enough to make
our soft snow angels on a winter lake.

The snow though would melt so upon my wrists,
Pull my shattered veins through her fingertips,
Leave my emptied heart on her emptied lips
our souls sailing skyward on frozen ships.

Wow. Thanks for reminding me to empty the cat's litter box.

[JAK]

You don't want to just stumble your way through life.
Love is like a map. It can still lead you astray, but it's something.
You just have to learn to be honest with yourself, to read it properly.

The stars above can be like a map also. They just take longer to get to know.
You have to learn to be patient. It might take a lifetime to get to know them.
But they will be there, as long as the night is clear.

For hiking the AT it is probably simpler and better just to bring a regular map.
You never know where your head might be, when what you really need is a map.

[ed bell]

I love maps and count myself as firmly planted in the "for" column. Beyond the enjoyment they provide, I also count the item as an "essential". I realize that people will get along fine on the AT without them, but I do think advising others to do the same is not good advice.There have been lots of threads about this topic, and they are always entertaining. Beyond the entertainment these threads always get me thinking, which is a good thing. I always seem to arrive at a couple of thoughts and conclusions:

1- Giving advice is a completely different ballgame from making decisions for yourself.

2- I honestly believe that many people cannot properly orient or interpret the info from a map.

3- When people ask "do I need maps to hike the AT?", my first thought is that they most likely don't know how to utilize them. (not always true, before feathers get ruffled)

4- There are far less threads asking about help with map skills. Why is this?

5- Is the weight really that significant? If not, why discourage a safety item. If so, what other safety items are fair game for weight reduction?

6- I saw a comment earlier about carrying a whistle. I still try to do this. Do many people think that is a dated piece of safety equipment?

I've decided that answering the question "do I need maps?" is secondary to the reason someone would ask the question in the first place. IMHO that's the reason these threads tend to heat up a bit. Yes or No doesn't address
the core issue.

[dmax]

I made it from Springer to Waynesboro, until an injury sent mr home, without any map, compass, or guide book. WF gave me a signed book, but I snet it home from the post office. If I get the oppertunity to attempt anouther thru, I won't be carrying any. I also don't care to look at anybody elses. I even get a little chuck, to myself, watching people spend an hour at shelters looking at their maps. You then see them at breakfast, lunch, breaks, trying to figure out where they are at. From just about anywhere on the AT you can see some sort of civilizaton, house, roads, etc. The AT is a narrow corridoor. On other trails, I will carry a map or compass. HYOH

[JAK]

A watch is very useful also. When you get turned around in your head you need a map, a compass, and a watch. Not just to navigate, but also to maintain composure which is just as important. It is easy to lose proper sense of time in a situation. How long have I been going this way. How long have we been sitting here? How long have I been shivering? I don't understand why a time piece is not stressed as much as a map and compass. White blazes are great for telling you that you are on the trail, but not much else. There is more to maps and compasses and time pieces than just knowing where you are, what direction you are going, or what time of day it is. Besides helping you out of many jams, they help you keep your head on straight, and let you know when it isn't.

[dmax]

Good point. A watch can also show you north.

[JAK]

Yes, and a compass can tell you what time it is.

[JAK]

It also helps to do most of your hiking in a place you know really well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmXY2MSrguE

[Rain Man]

A watch is very useful also. When you get turned around in your head you need a map, a compass, and a watch. Not just to navigate, but also to maintain composure which is just as important. It is easy to lose proper sense of time in a situation. How long have I been going this way. How long have we been sitting here? How long have I been shivering? I don't understand why a time piece is not stressed as much as a map and compass. White blazes are great for telling you that you are on the trail, but not much else. There is more to maps and compasses and time pieces than just knowing where you are, what direction you are going, or what time of day it is. Besides helping you out of many jams, they help you keep your head on straight, and let you know when it isn't.

Well said. And though white blazes tell you that you are on the AT, the reverse is not true. The absence of white blazes does not tell you where you are, except maybe "lost."

Hikers don't need to carry a map, compass, or watch. Then again, they don't need to carry shelter nor water either. To each his/her own. HYOH. But if answering the question, I'm certainly on the side of reasonable wisdom.

Rain:sunMan

.

[iamduesouth]

No fail solution .....no maps needed...ne cell phones needed.....no GPS...All you gotta do is carry a deck of cards with ya....when your "totally" lost...simply sit down...deal out a hand of Solitire.....with-in a few minutes there will be several people looking over your shoulder telling you what cards to play where....after the game...simply ask one of-em for directions....??

[Panzer1]

Maybe hiking without a map ties into the "ultralight" theory.

Maybe this is one more reason why people say that going ultralight can sometimes be dangerous. Ultralighters leave a lot of things home that we "well equipped" hikers bring.

I don't call myself a "ultralight" hiker or even a "light weight" hiker. I refer to my style of hiking as
"well equipped". Still, I do watch my pack weight carefully.

Panzer

[Panzer1]

3- When people ask "do I need maps to hike the AT?", my first thought is that they most likely don't know how to utilize them. (not always true, before feathers get ruffled)

It may be true that a lot of thru-hikers can't read a map when they begin their thru-hike, but if they look at their map every day they will quickly learn to read a trail map. After all, its not rocket science. People do learn.

Panzer (learned to read a map on the trail)

[Tin Man]

LOL. Lonewolf, the voice of reason. Wonders never cease

Yep, we wonder why you don't cease. :rolleyes:

[rafe]

Maybe hiking without a map ties into the "ultralight" theory.

Maybe this is one more reason why people say that going ultralight can sometimes be dangerous. Ultralighters leave a lot of things home that we "well equipped" hikers bring.


I'd say that's all pretty plausible.

[Mags]

Maybe hiking without a map ties into the "ultralight" theory.




I carry less than 10 lbs. Always carry a map...

Of course, out West is a different ball of wax than the well marked AT.

I also suspect if I did the AT again I would do it CDT style and make up my own route along the way. I'd need maps for that. HMH - DI!

[superman]

When I hiked the AT all I needed to do was follow Winter. She always knew which trail to take. I carried maps for some sections of the AT but I didn't really need them. The AT is so weel marked a blind man could hike it. The data book was of more help to me. Mostly I just needed to know where the water and re-supply was. The piece of information Winter and I would have liked to have was which re-supply places had those pre-cooked cheap Charlie chickens. We ate those like... like...hungry dogs.

[jhick]

necessary, no. good idea, of course. seriously... how much can a map weigh????

[rafe]

necessary, no. good idea, of course. seriously... how much can a map weigh????

As a very rough guess, the full set of ATC maps (without the guidebooks) weighs about 5 lbs. or so. They're heavy enough that, for a six-week hike, I broke them up into three groups.

[4eyedbuzzard]

Maps are totally unneccessary until you need them.:rolleyes:

[jhick]

As a very rough guess, the full set of ATC maps (without the guidebooks) weighs about 5 lbs. or so. They're heavy enough that, for a six-week hike, I broke them up into three groups.

I wasn't suggest a thru-hiker carry the entire trail.... Being a computer geek, I like to scan the maps and print them as needed... much lighter, smaller and easier to replace. Plus, I can squeeze an entire map on a couple pages that certainly is lighter than the entire map. I almost always wind up giving them away to someone on my last day who doesn't have a map.

p.s. printer ink is free at work ;)

[Pedaling Fool]

This is a recurring thread, as others; seems there would (or should) be a way to list your opinion in one-fell-swoop so you could post it and never type anything on the subject again, just reference your "write-up". Sort of like a pro/con perspective with all the best opinions listed and reducing the redundant stuff. Or maybe just a write-up in the “Articles” section is needed on the subject, would have to include both sides of the issue.