View Full Version : anything wrong with lithium?
johnny quest
01-07-2008, 16:04
my princeton tec aurora headlight specifically calls for alkaline batteries. it warns that nicaads will not burn as bright. my question is what about lithium? anyone know? i tried emailing p.t. but their screwy website wont take my email.
I hear lithium is good for ADD/ADHD...
No, I dont really know any bad news about using Li batts. *I* think they last longer than alkaline... but I have not done any testing...
I f'ed up my Aurora by using lithium batteries - the lower resistance of the lithium batteries plus slightly higher voltage results in more current through the LEDs than they can handle - due to the heat build up the LED (one or more) will eventuallly fail - in my case after about 10 hours of use one of the LEDDs failed in such a way that it started blinking.
johnny quest
01-07-2008, 16:12
wow. see, now that is news you can use. thanks, hoi.
Good on HOI, as they say... learn something new...
I f'ed up my Aurora by using lithium batteries - the lower resistance of the lithium batteries plus slightly higher voltage results in more current through the LEDs than they can handle - due to the heat build up the LED (one or more) will eventuallly fail - in my case after about 10 hours of use one of the LEDDs failed in such a way that it started blinking.
It’s not the batteries that cause the LED’s to burn out it’s the poor design of the LED light that causes them to burn out the LED’s. Any LED can be over ranged in voltage or amperage if not protected by a voltage regulator or a dropping resister. The regulator is a little better able to do this then a dropping resistor, but they both will protect an LED from to much amperage. The regulator will also be better able to protect from not only excessive amperage, but also excessive voltage. Ideally you want to protect the LED from both. Lots of LED flashlights are not equipped with the right protective circuits to keep the LED’s in their optimal power range, so they run hot and burn out prematurely. LED lighting is still a fairly new technology and has not had enough time to have all the bugs shaken out of it yet.
The reason for lower light output from rechargeable batteries is that they are only 1.2 volts per cell, where as an alkaline battery is 1.5 volts per cell. 3-tents of a volt does not sound like all that much, but when you have a light that uses 4 AA batteries it’s the difference between 6-volts and 4.8-volts. It takes 5 rechargeable batteries to equal 4 alkaline batteries.
As far as using lithium batteries in place of Alkaline, I do it all the time with great results. Lithium batteries will retain much more of their charge when it’s cold out. Alkaline batteries don’t fair too well in the cold. Also Lithium batteries while more expensive weigh very little as compared to all other batteries.
johnny quest
01-07-2008, 16:54
but princeton tec specifically calls for alkalines. like i said, i couldnt contact them to ask why.
Appalachian Tater
01-07-2008, 17:33
but princeton tec specifically calls for alkalines. like i said, i couldnt contact them to ask why.
1-800-257-9080
I hear lithium is good for ADD/ADHD...
Works well with some Bipolar disorders...just, be sure to get monthly lithium levels...so as not to become toxic!:D
It’s not the batteries that cause the LED’s to burn out it’s the poor design of the LED light that causes them to burn out the LED’s
Absolutely correct. If your headlamp won't take lithiums, then it is a POC and you should warn other about it.
There are too many over-priced POC headlamps out there.
If you do have a LED light that burns out the LEDs and have the factory replace it or buy another one. You can prevent it from cooking the new LEDs again by purposely putting rechargeable batteries in it. The lower voltage 1.2 as apposed to 1.5 volts per cell will dramatically lower the LEDs being over driven and while you will have a lower light output, you will not have the thermal runaway (burnout.) of the LEDs.
OregonHiker
01-08-2008, 01:15
my princeton tec aurora headlight specifically calls for alkaline batteries. it warns that nicaads will not burn as bright. my question is what about lithium? anyone know? i tried emailing p.t. but their screwy website wont take my email.
Maybee they've seen your avatar :(
my princeton tec aurora headlight specifically calls for alkaline batteries. it warns that nicaads will not burn as bright. my question is what about lithium? anyone know? i tried emailing p.t. but their screwy website wont take my email.
Bob S' comment about regulators, is good information.
Lithium batteries should not be used in the Aurora. This model is one of Princeton Tec's non-regulated series headlamps.
This problem is not limited to Princeton Tec. Petzl advises against the use of lithium batteries, in most of their product line.
Princeton Tec has responded by creating a regulated series. Their website currently shows 5 models which are designed to be used with lithium batteries. The Quad, similar to your Aurora but with an additional LED, is the lightest of the series.
johnny quest
01-08-2008, 10:46
tater, you magnificent old school bastard! that series of numbers you gave me, when applied to this 20th century communications device on my wall, worked! i spoke to a very nice man who said that indeed the aurora is not made for lithium batteries and will be damaged by them. he went on to say the aurora has been discontinued and that the other lights with similar issues are clearly marked and annotated against the use of lithiums.
oregon hiker, first of all, thank you for living as far away from me in this country as you can. second, i think you have a case of avatar envy. and who can blame you. look at yours. what did you do...lose a bet????
thanks to all who answered my questions.
WalkinHome
01-08-2008, 10:57
On a side note regarding lithium batteries, a new rule for flying is in place since the new year. Extra lithiums, not in their unopened original package, are not allowed to be carried in checked in luggage. The must be in your carry on. Has something to do with lithiums, if they touch, can generate enough heat to start a fire. Does not apply to batteries in your devices, just loose ones.
What is the best choice environmentally speaking?
johnny quest
01-08-2008, 11:06
What is the best choice environmentally speaking?
fireflys????:banana
Cannibal
01-08-2008, 11:09
fireflys????:banana
Most of them have already been 'offed' by mosquito control treatments. :mad:
johnny quest
01-08-2008, 11:10
not in my back yard on summer nights. wonderful. gus the sheltie chases them.
Looks like most of Petzel's lights shouldn't be used with lithiums.
http://en.petzl.com/petzl/LampesProduits?Produit=464#
Margaret and I saw a bunch of them on our late night hike bake to the car last summer. They sucked, and so did my candle lantern. :D
However, the memories might outlast anything battery powered. :)
What is the most enviro-friendly battery?
How would it compare to say, a three tealight lantern?
How many fireflies would it take to match it? :)
ofthearth
01-08-2008, 11:52
my princeton tec aurora headlight specifically calls for alkaline batteries. it warns that nicaads will not burn as bright. my question is what about lithium? anyone know? i tried emailing p.t. but their screwy website wont take my email.
some links to battery testing/info sites
http://www.hydro-photon.com/batterytesting.html
and a page comparing batteries/life/price
http://www.consumersearch.com/www/el...ics/batteries/
Appalachian Tater
01-08-2008, 19:38
On a side note regarding lithium batteries, a new rule for flying is in place since the new year. Extra lithiums, not in their unopened original package, are not allowed to be carried in checked in luggage. The must be in your carry on. Has something to do with lithiums, if they touch, can generate enough heat to start a fire. Does not apply to batteries in your devices, just loose ones.
http://safetravel.dot.gov/whats_new_batteries.html
Lithium affects the flow of sodium through nerve and muscle cells in the body. Sodium affects excitation or mania.:banana
Lithium is used to treat the manic episodes of manic depression. Manic symptoms include:banana hyperactivity, rushed speech, poor judgment, reduced need for sleep, aggression, and anger. Lithium also helps to prevent or lessen the intensity of manic episodes.
Lithium may also be used for purposes other than those listed in this :banana medication guide.
Important information about lithium
* Do not use lithium without telling your doctor if you are pregnant. It could cause harm to the unborn baby. :banana
I use lithium batteries in my Princeton Tec EOS all the time. It is three years old and going strong. Never even knew there was an issue until I read this thread. I'll let you know when and if the EOS LED gives out. Gonna keep using lithiums because of the weight.
johnny quest
01-09-2008, 19:11
it may be that this is one of the lights that take lithiums. i dont know. the guy i talked to at princeton tec was pretty adamant that using lithium in the wrong light would cause them to break. but then, he also informed me that the aurora wasnt suited for a thru hike cause it didnt have enough features.
oh well looks like my post was lost in the attack - anyways what I said was that the EOS is a regulated LED system where an active regulator limits the current to the LEDs and thus its OK to use lithiums in an EOS - same comment also applies to the Quad
budforester
01-12-2008, 17:45
Lithium cells fried some incadescent bulbs for me but my first set with LEDs is doing fine, so far. And they seem to be living up to the claims for cold- hardiness.
The Weasel
01-12-2008, 17:58
Lithium affects the flow of sodium through nerve and muscle cells in the body. Sodium affects excitation or mania.:banana
Lithium is used to treat the manic episodes of manic depression. Manic symptoms include:banana hyperactivity, rushed speech, poor judgment, reduced need for sleep, aggression, and anger. Lithium also helps to prevent or lessen the intensity of manic episodes.
Lithium may also be used for purposes other than those listed in this :banana medication guide.
Important information about lithium
* Do not use lithium without telling your doctor if you are pregnant. It could cause harm to the unborn baby. :banana
lithium:bananamakes:bananame:bananaact:bananaso:ba nanamuch:bananamore:banananormal:bananadon't:banan ayou:bananathink?
TW
Lithium affects the flow of sodium through nerve and muscle cells in the body. Sodium affects excitation or mania.:banana
Lithium is used to treat the manic episodes of manic depression. Manic symptoms include:banana hyperactivity, rushed speech, poor judgment, reduced need for sleep, aggression, and anger. Lithium also helps to prevent or lessen the intensity of manic episodes.
Lithium may also be used for purposes other than those listed in this :banana medication guide.
Important information about lithium
* Do not use lithium without telling your doctor if you are pregnant. It could cause harm to the unborn baby. :banana
All that sounds great to be warned about, But if you don’t put the batteries in your mouth, I don’t see how it applies to having them in a flashlight or any other electronic device. :-?
88BlueGT
01-13-2008, 04:34
Looks like most of Petzel's lights shouldn't be used with lithiums.
http://en.petzl.com/petzl/LampesProduits?Produit=464#
Don't know where you seen that information at on that link?
Anyway, I bought a Petzl Tikka XP today. Comming right from the manual included:
BATTERIES:
Use alkaline batteries or NiMH NiCd rechargeables. You can also use lithium batteries for lighter weight and longer battery life in cold temperatures.
This may be because mine has a built in limiter though :-?
Any electronic device is designed for a certain power supply (battery) characteristic. If the battery supplies too much voltage or has too low an internal resistance, as may be the case with Li batteries, then either the regulator/control chip or the LED lamp or a current limiter (eg., resistor) could be operating outside their design specs, which may lead to failure of some sort. The failure where one LED began to flash sounds like a control circuit fault. When a simple resistor is used to limit the current, it is actually the LED which is the voltage regulator, and too much supply voltage will draw too much current, which may lead to thermal runaway of the LED or the limit resistor, and failure, usually by an open circuit. The other danger with Lithium batteries is from fire when the battery discharges too rapidly, as in a short circuit. The battery may catch fire or explode. Moral: If you want to use Lithium batteries, use them in a device which is designed for them, and be careful not to short circuit loose batteries, even supposedly dead ones.
By the way, an LED will operate at about 0.6-2V, depending on the colour and type. Most white LEDs operate with a pair of cells (batteries) in series with a limit resistor, often incorporated in the LED package itself. While they may tolerate the difference between a NiCd or NiMH (1.2V) and an alkaline cell (1.5V), they will probably give more light with the alkaline. A Silver or a Lithium cell may be too much for it: a bright but short life. Moral 2: Use the battery that the unit is designed for.
johnny quest
01-13-2008, 12:47
Any electronic device is designed for a certain power supply (battery) characteristic. If the battery supplies too much voltage or has too low an internal resistance, as may be the case with Li batteries, then either the regulator/control chip or the LED lamp or a current limiter (eg., resistor) could be operating outside their design specs, which may lead to failure of some sort. The failure where one LED began to flash sounds like a control circuit fault. When a simple resistor is used to limit the current, it is actually the LED which is the voltage regulator, and too much supply voltage will draw too much current, which may lead to thermal runaway of the LED or the limit resistor, and failure, usually by an open circuit. The other danger with Lithium batteries is from fire when the battery discharges too rapidly, as in a short circuit. The battery may catch fire or explode. Moral: If you want to use Lithium batteries, use them in a device which is designed for them, and be careful not to short circuit loose batteries, even supposedly dead ones.
By the way, an LED will operate at about 0.6-2V, depending on the colour and type. Most white LEDs operate with a pair of cells (batteries) in series with a limit resistor, often incorporated in the LED package itself. While they may tolerate the difference between a NiCd or NiMH (1.2V) and an alkaline cell (1.5V), they will probably give more light with the alkaline. A Silver or a Lithium cell may be too much for it: a bright but short life. Moral 2: Use the battery that the unit is designed for.
boy i feel dumb.