PDA

View Full Version : New to hiking with b/pack; sleep system for AT?



k9dog
01-08-2008, 17:01
Wasn't exactly sure where to put this, so it's here for the time being :p

I would like (passport/ visa/ flight willing) to start a thru-hike, S->N, in early March.

The biggest determining factor to my success will be my morale/ comfort during the hike. Since I have a small frame, I really want to cut down on weight as much as possible. This includes keeping things dry.

There appear to be 3 options available for sleeping:

1. lightweight tent (probably the most expensive, when you start dealing with carbon fibre tent poles, etc).

2. Tarptent (never used one)

3. Hammock + tarp (again, no experience)

The main criteria I'm using atm are:

a. Weight
b. Bug-proof (the flying variety mostly)
c. suitability for any extreme conditions possible at any point on the AT (the odd night of being a little cool should not be a problem.)
d. Cost

Right. I've all but ruled out a normal tent because of the weight, or expense, or both.

Hammocks look interesting, but I've never even slept in one before, let alone hiked with one. I read that in cold weather you're better off on the ground... which I don't understand. I thought you were always supposed to raise yourself off the ground, so as not to conduct heat into it.

I'm somewhat concerned by the lack of a floor in a Tarptent or Hammock/tarp. Obviously I'm not going to pitch in a stream, but running ground water must be a problem, no?

Lastly, money is a real issue. I have a lot of stuff to buy. Almost everything. No, absolutely everything. In fact my total monetary allocation to this project is £2000, or roughly $4000. Spending more than $1000 would eat into the $3000 I may/may not need to complete the hike.

I should say I'm 27 years old, male, and neither fit nor fat. If that makes a difference :)

Where should I look to get a better idea of what sleeping system will work for me?

Montego
01-08-2008, 17:06
Welcome to WhiteBlaze k9dog. Well, you've come to the right place to ask questions. Good luck to you on your hike :welcome

Cannibal
01-08-2008, 17:11
Awfully close to departure for learning a new sleep system. I'd be tempted to go with a light tent; something already familiar to you.

Hammocks and tarptents both take a bit of practice and experimenting to comfortably deal with Mama Nature. JMO

SGT Rock
01-08-2008, 17:17
I tend to agree. I'm a die hard hammock fan, but unless you know you are very flexible and are ready to be trying something new at the begining of a thru-hike, I wouldn't want to be trying to sort that out.

I'd reccomend a small one person tent, a regualr 20F (~ -5C) sleeping bag, and a pro-lite mattress.

jesse
01-08-2008, 17:18
if you pitch your tarp on level ground, water can't run in. A good insulated sleeping pad is a must for sleeping on the ground. At your age a cheap closed cell pad might work, Here in the States, if you say the cheap blue pad from Wal-Mart, everybody knows what that is. At my age I need more, I use a Pacific Outdoor INsul-max inflatable pad.

JAK
01-08-2008, 17:21
Ever since I did basic training years ago with hootchies, in Chilliwack BC in winter, I've been sold on simple tarps and bivies, more open the better. Give a simple poncho/tarp a try in the UK before you buy anything. You can always use a poncho/tarp. Mine is a simple 4'x8' nylon with hood and grommets. I might go a bit bigger if was still simple and cheap. I would have to try on on of the more elaborate ones like the packa before I bought one of those.

JAK
01-08-2008, 17:26
If you combine a small poncho tarp with a simple bivy sac the poncho/tarp can be simpler and smaller and the bivy sac can be simpler and smaller and you should be able to crash just about anywhere. With a full sized blue foam pad you don't need a ground sheet. That is a very cheap and simple start. I guess the main weakness would be mosquitos and blackflies. There are lots of cheap light tents though if you want to go that route. If you are under 6' there are some very workable kids tents for $20. The only thing I might spend real money on would be a good sleeping bag, and even there you don't really have to.

rafe
01-08-2008, 17:27
Tarptents are wonderfully light, and easy to set up. (Speaking from experience with a 1-person Rainbow.)

The only downside (from my experience) is that they're not quite as dry as a slightly heavier double-wall tent. The consensus is that "site selection" is a bit more critical for Tarptents than for ordinary double-wall tents.

Part of this has to do with the nature of the tent's floor. Double-wall tents typically have a "tub" floor that comes up several inches on all sides, and keeps rain from splashing in. The Tarptent Rainbow has this as well, but it's not nearly as robust as in other tents I've used.

In any case, the Rainbow is a very easy tent to set up. No issues there.

k9dog
01-08-2008, 18:45
Ever since I did basic training years ago with hootchies, in Chilliwack BC in winter, I've been sold on simple tarps and bivies, more open the better. Give a simple poncho/tarp a try in the UK before you buy anything. You can always use a poncho/tarp. Mine is a simple 4'x8' nylon with hood and grommets. I might go a bit bigger if was still simple and cheap. I would have to try on on of the more elaborate ones like the packa before I bought one of those.
I had no idea what a poncho, hootchie or bivvy was before, so I did what any 21st century person does and stuck it in Google.

After reading this:
http://www.outdooridiots.com/features/20060201/articles/a20060201_tarps.asp

I'm certainly warming to the idea. It does seem wonderfully intimate. Intimate with nature, I mean. And versatile. A tent is simply a shelter and a place to sleep; it seems a tarp can be a whole lot more.

So, thinking along those lines, and considering weight always, I'm left with two further options. Sleep on the ground; sleep in a hammock. I'm going to have to see if any of my more outdoors-inclined friends have a hammock I can test. I understand you either love them or... don't love them.

Secondly after weight, the flying, biting, infect-you-with-some-ungodly-disease insects take centre stage. I understand it's almost impossible to prevent them have a good chow on you while you're moving. I'd like to avoid a second course while I'm asleep, but if I'm cocooned in a sleeping bag, that means I only have to prevent access to my face/ inside the bag. A lightweigh mesh for sleeping bags? Sounds like something that should exist...

SGT Rock
01-08-2008, 18:49
Well if you are open to the idea. I suggest this exact set up:

1. Get a Etowah 6'x10' tarp and some string.

2. Get a set of 8 MSR nail stakes.

3. get a space blanket for a ground cloth.

4. Get a Wal-Mart blue foam pad (not the egg crate type).

5. Get a Campmor 20 degree bag.

This will make you good for ground sleeping in bugless enviroments. When the bugs finally come out you can get a bug net.

After that, go CHEAP and get a simple hammock like a an Eno Single nest to put under it. This way you can go back to ground if you don't like the hammock.

rafe
01-08-2008, 18:50
Secondly after weight, the flying, biting, infect-you-with-some-ungodly-disease insects take centre stage. I understand it's almost impossible to prevent them have a good chow on you while you're moving. I'd like to avoid a second course while I'm asleep, but if I'm cocooned in a sleeping bag, that means I only have to prevent access to my face/ inside the bag. A lightweigh mesh for sleeping bags? Sounds like something that should exist...

Trouble is, when it's hot out, you may not want to be cocooned in your sleeping bag.

SGT Rock
01-08-2008, 18:51
When it gets hot unzip it and use it like a blanket.

k9dog
01-08-2008, 18:56
Ah, that's a good point. I had considered being too cold, but not too hot. Guess I'm used to the good old British weather which comes in cool, cooler or cold varieties. I'd rather be a little cold than too hot, however.

These bug nets, you attach them to the tarp do you? Or pitch them as a sort of tent-within-a-tent? Flies and flying insects are a pet hate of mine. I'm not sure if I'd call it a phobia, but it's pretty close.

Sgt Rock - thanks for the gear suggestions. Since I'll be buying the UK, I might not be able to find those, but I'll have a look tomorrow.

k9dog
01-08-2008, 19:00
Don't seem to be able to edit my own posts; sorry to reply to myself and all, but I thought of something.

Would it possible to list the attributes of that gear that makes it ideal? Then at least I can match it to gear sold here with the same attributes, instead of trying to find someone who sells the exact same item (which may not be possible, you understand).

SGT Rock
01-08-2008, 19:14
Don't seem to be able to edit my own posts; sorry to reply to myself and all, but I thought of something.

Would it possible to list the attributes of that gear that makes it ideal? Then at least I can match it to gear sold here with the same attributes, instead of trying to find someone who sells the exact same item (which may not be possible, you understand).

Well if you are open to the idea. I suggest this exact set up:

1. Get a Etowah 6'x10' tarp and some string.

Cheap and light - something like 310 grams.


2. Get a set of 8 MSR nail stakes.
Cheap and light, 9 grams each.


3. get a space blanket for a ground cloth.
Cheap and light. About 25 grams.


4. Get a Wal-Mart blue foam pad (not the egg crate type).
Cheap and light. About 330 grams.


5. Get a Campmor 20 degree bag.
Cheap and light. About 1 Kilo.


This will make you good for ground sleeping in bugless enviroments. When the bugs finally come out you can get a bug net.

After that, go CHEAP and get a simple hammock like a an Eno Single nest to put under it. This way you can go back to ground if you don't like the hammock.
The eno single nest is about 510 grams.

You can get all this for about $365 US.

rafe
01-08-2008, 19:19
When it gets hot unzip it and use it like a blanket.

I'm aware of that option, but the fact remains -- to the extent that you're not "cocooned" you're subject to the skeeters. Also: some of the better, lighter down bags save weight by only having partial zippers.

SGT Rock
01-08-2008, 19:22
That is a good point. Some like the Arc Alpinist save weight by only having a top like a quilt since you crush all the loft on the bottom when you lay on it. Or is it lie on it? I always seem to get that wrong.

Anyhow, in the hammock you can get a net later like this one: http://www.campmor.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=39260153&memberId=12500226&storeId=226&catalogId=40000000226&langId=-1

Skidsteer
01-08-2008, 19:29
You can always use a poncho/tarp. Mine is a simple 4'x8' nylon with hood and grommets. I might go a bit bigger if was still simple and cheap. I would have to try on on of the more elaborate ones like the packa before I bought one of those.

A note. The Packa is not a tarp.

I suppose you could rig it as a shelter if need be. Any port in a storm.

SGT Rock
01-08-2008, 19:39
One of those Campmor bags is on sale here for $75.

k9dog
01-08-2008, 20:00
That is a good point. Some like the Arc Alpinist save weight by only having a top like a quilt since you crush all the loft on the bottom when you lay on it. Or is it lie on it? I always seem to get that wrong.

Anyhow, in the hammock you can get a net later like this one: http://www.campmor.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=39260153&memberId=12500226&storeId=226&catalogId=40000000226&langId=-1
Grammar's great, isn't it. So easy to get wrong. I didn't know myself, but google does:

http://data.grammarbook.com/blog/?p=13

Seems to be the best answer, although other conflicting information exists, this appears to be the most complete and... sounds right :p

turtle fast
01-08-2008, 20:19
k9dog....you are much better off buying your gear in the states....when I was in the UK not long ago your prices for hiking gear were expensive and with the exchange rate in your favour your better off buying it over here also not a big hassle to take thru customs and lug around. I suggest you buy your socks and boots in the UK and break them in, and then when in Atlanta shop at REI, Walmart, and you can even order online from Campmor.com and have it shipped to your hotel or hostel and be ready for you when you arrive! You can preplan it online by checking REI's, Campmor and even Walmarts web sites to plan out your gear!

windigrrl
01-08-2008, 20:38
I am very happy with my six moon designs tent.
http://www.sixmoondesigns.com/

bigcranky
01-08-2008, 21:05
A Tarptent, like the Contrail or the Rainbow, has many advantages of a flat tarp, is easier to set up, has built-in bug netting and a floor. You get good views, good rain protection, better ground protection, better bug protection, and lots of space to spread out gear, change clothes, sleep, etc. (I say all this as a dedicated flat-tarp and bivy user, by the way. We use our larger Tarptent on family trips.)