Tent ground cloth [Archive]

AT1996

01-21-2008, 18:43

Some outfitters carry tyvek and sell it by the foot (I think the one in Hot Springs?) I don't normally use a ground cloth because of the extra weight, but after struggling to get a ride in Helena when we were on the CDT last year, I decided we needed a piece of tyvek on which we could write "Hiker to Trail and Hiker to town." Gutsy

Appalachian Tater

01-21-2008, 19:22

You don't need a ground cloth, it's just extra weight.

RITBlake

01-21-2008, 19:25

Use natures ground cloth, leaves

A-Train

01-21-2008, 19:50

Another vote for NO ground cloth. I had Tyvek two different hikes and ended up sending it home/getting rid of it.

Blissful

01-21-2008, 19:56

Stop at a construction site and you can get whet you need if you ask.

Yep. Or check the dumpster. Usually plenty of discarded "ground cloth". And it weighs nothing.

Pedaling Fool

01-21-2008, 20:08

With any good rain the water will get in between your footprint and tent floor, regardless of the cut size or even if you get the designed one from the manufacturer. If you want or need to you can always "treat" the floor with a repellant.
If you're worried about tears, just be careful, I haven't torn my "cheap" Kelty yet and if I do I got all that duct tape. Those trail-side repairs are what gives your equipment that added special appeal. Besides, you'll eventually get sick of that tent and want to replace it, so don't waste the money on a footprint or the hassel of folding/unfolding every day and all the wiping off of it....
I'm starting to feel like JAK...

tha

01-21-2008, 22:05

Double-ply tyvek.

Before you sew it, put it thru the washer a couple of times.

I use 4-ply when car camping.

warraghiyagey

01-21-2008, 22:08

You don't need a ground cloth, it's just extra weight.

Another vote for NO ground cloth. I had Tyvek two different hikes and ended up sending it home/getting rid of it.
Ditto. Ditto.:)

Kirby

01-21-2008, 22:09

What does one do when it rains with no ground cloth, going on the assumption you can not get to a town, nor have access to a shelter?

Kirby

warraghiyagey

01-21-2008, 22:10

What does one do when it rains with no ground cloth, going on the assumption you can not get to a town, nor have access to a shelter?

Kirby
Sleep. Get up. Pack up. Hike.:)

Kirby

01-21-2008, 22:13

Sleep. Get up. Pack up. Hike.:)

Does that mean set up your tent on the on the soaking wet ground during the rain and deal with it for the night?

Kirby

ChinMusic

01-21-2008, 22:14

What does one do when it rains with no ground cloth, going on the assumption you can not get to a town, nor have access to a shelter?

Kirby
I can only speak for my Lunar Solo. If I use no ground cloth I get little or no moisture on the floor of the tent during severe rains. If I did get some my sleeping pad would keep me above it and a simple bandanna or camp towel would take care of it, similar to any condensation.

During rainstorms is it typical for me to find the ground almost completely dry under my tent when I break in the morning. If you use a bit of care in site location, IMO, a wet floor is really not an issue.

Maybe I've been lucky.

warraghiyagey

01-21-2008, 22:18

Does that mean set up your tent on the on the soaking wet ground during the rain and deal with it for the night?

Kirby
I have been fortunate enough to not have to set up during a driving rain storm - timing incoming rain helps, some luck, good tree cover, you get a feel for it.
And once in the tent for the night a haven't had any floor leakage even on the rainiest of nights. A ground cloth is a superfluous peice of equipment and I think you might also find that so after carrying it for a few days.
Have a great hike Kirb. It's coming up fast huh?:sun:sun

Kirby

01-21-2008, 22:25

I have been fortunate enough to not have to set up during a driving rain storm - timing incoming rain helps, some luck, good tree cover, you get a feel for it.
And once in the tent for the night a haven't had any floor leakage even on the rainiest of nights. A ground cloth is a superfluous peice of equipment and I think you might also find that so after carrying it for a few days.
Have a great hike Kirb. It's coming up fast huh?:sun:sun

Yes it is, by the end of the week I will have less than A month till I leave to meet my group, and to really get things rolling.

I might take the wait and see approach, and buy one if I need it at Neel's Gap, not sure if that's wise though. I have a Six Moons Design (Lunar?) solo tent, it has not had to face a strong storm yet, I was in a shelter during my one rain storm in the wilderness.

Kirby

warraghiyagey

01-21-2008, 22:27

Yes it is, by the end of the week I will have less than A month till I leave to meet my group, and to really get things rolling.

I might take the wait and see approach, and buy one if I need it at Neel's Gap, not sure if that's wise though. I have a Six Moons Design (Lunar?) solo tent, it has not had to face a strong storm yet, I was in a shelter during my one rain storm in the wilderness.

Kirby
Just give it a good seam seal inside and out and another spray waterproof caoting and the tent will be fine. What are you using fo a sleeping bag?

Kirby

01-21-2008, 22:29

Just give it a good seam seal inside and out and another spray waterproof caoting and the tent will be fine. What are you using fo a sleeping bag?

EMS mountain light 20, I was quite pleased with its performance in the warn weather of the 100 mile wilderness this summer, and, if your wondering, I have a Therma rest ridge rest sleeping pad.

Kirby

Skyline

01-21-2008, 22:36

I second the post that said to wash Tyvek a couple times before using it as a ground cloth. It becomes softer, easy to pack--even quieter.

If you use a ground cloth, don't let it extend beyond the floor of the tent or it will indeed cause water to be funnelled between the ground cloth and the tent floor. But if you are careful about this I think you'll find a ground cloth to be worth the few ounces.

You are going to wind up with some moisture in your tent no matter what you do. Getting in and out, or bringing in wet gear/clothes. I carry some of those blue shop towels you can buy on a roll at Wal-Mart to take care of that. They are easy to wring out and use over and over. They dry out in just a couple minutes in the sun. The sun will eventually reappear. It did even in 2003, the wettest year ever.

Have a great hike.

ChinMusic

01-21-2008, 22:38

I have a Six Moons Design (Lunar?) solo tent, it has not had to face a strong storm yet, I was in a shelter during my one rain storm in the wilderness.

Kirby
So far it has been a dream in storms for me.

Practice with the Lunar Solo if you have a chance. It is REAL easy to set up once you've done it a couple times. One thing to remember with the Lunar Solo is that the tent will settle a bit once you set it up and need to be tightened after about and hour. Usually tightening the straps just before bed is enough. But giving them a bit more of a tug in the middle of the night (if you are out to pee) will keep it taught.

Remember when you first set it up to have the straps LOOSENED to the max so you have the whole strap to tighten later on. Also be CAREFUL when you first place your trecking pole in position. Make SURE you hold the tip of the pole in the brass ring. A buddy of mine got sloppy and missed the ring and ripped his tent.

warraghiyagey

01-21-2008, 22:41

EMS mountain light 20, I was quite pleased with its performance in the warn weather of the 100 mile wilderness this summer, and, if your wondering, I have a Therma rest ridge rest sleeping pad.

Kirby
Stay warm, you're gonna be in the winter mountains. Too late to get a zero degree (wind chill factor not included:p)?

ChinMusic

01-21-2008, 22:42

If you use a ground cloth, don't let it extend beyond the floor of the tent or it will indeed cause water to be funnelled between the ground cloth and the tent floor.
In my "rookie year" I made this mistake. I paid for it......:eek:

Kirby

01-21-2008, 22:52

So far it has been a dream in storms for me.

Practice with the Lunar Solo if you have a chance. It is REAL easy to set up once you've done it a couple times. One thing to remember with the Lunar Solo is that the tent will settle a bit once you set it up and need to be tightened after about and hour. Usually tightening the straps just before bed is enough. But giving them a bit more of a tug in the middle of the night (if you are out to pee) will keep it taught.

Remember when you first set it up to have the straps LOOSENED to the max so you have the whole strap to tighten later on. Also be CAREFUL when you first place your trecking pole in position. Make SURE you hold the tip of the pole in the brass ring. A buddy of mine got sloppy and missed the ring and ripped his tent.

Thanks for the advice, I was pleased with its performance in the wilderness, I was more preferential to tenting, especially cause of those damn mice!:eek:

The brass ring on mine has already come off, I will monitor this, but I don't believe it will be an issue, there is still a place to put the end of the trek pole through.

How do you handle the sagging of the angled wall? I can not figure out how to push it out farther, without having to attach a string to a loop on the outside.

Kirby

Montego

01-21-2008, 22:53

I've never used a ground cloth for my tents. I find that they (the ground cloths) are an additional expense and additional weight, neither which is needed. I have never had a tent leak through its' floor even in the worst rains. One key thing IMO is to "walk" the area prior to placing your tent, checking and removing any sharp objects (rocks, sticks, glass, etc.) that could potentially poke a hole in your tent floor. I also pick my tent site with an eye toward possible water 'pooling' or 'streaming' that would occur durring heavy rains and try to avoid those areas. It's also good to pitch your tent in such a way that your out of the worst winds, as well as away from "widow makers" if at all possible. And, of course, you want the flattest area you can find.

I don't have that much experience in the higher humidity areas of the East but as I understand it, and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, if you place your tent under the tree canopy and away from water sources, you will experience less problems with condensation and dew.

I know that all the above is a tall order, but you you'll get it down with practice, don't sweat the small stuff. You will have a great hike Kirby :)

Nyati40

01-21-2008, 23:27

Kirby, Take a look at the Hennessy Hammock @ www.hennessyhammock.com , it is one of the greatest investments I've made in equipment. Slept in it in 20 degree Arkansas weather, had to have a sleeping pad to stay warm even in a 15 degree down bag, but it's easy to set-up, gets you off the ground and is extremely comfortable. No need for a ground cloth and weighs about 2 pounds. Headed to Hot Springs the end of March and won't go without it.

Bob S

01-22-2008, 00:22

I have been tent camping for going on 40-years. And I have never used a ground cloth to protect the tent floor or keep out rain water. And in that time I have never had a tent floor leak or ware out. A tarp in my experience is not needed. Just more junk to fill up your pack.

ChinMusic

01-22-2008, 00:43

The brass ring on mine has already come off, I will monitor this, but I don't believe it will be an issue, there is still a place to put the end of the trek pole through.
Yikes. You might consider shipping it back to Six Moons and having this fixed before you set off. I think you still have time. I think that brass ring missing might be an issue. Give them a call anyway, they are good folks. Don't delay as your starting time is creeping up.

How do you handle the sagging of the angled wall? I can not figure out how to push it out farther, without having to attach a string to a loop on the outside.

Kirby

I have some real light stretchy line I got from a sowing shop. I tie off the corners after I set it up. I am 5'10 and if I did not tie it off my head would come into more contact with the tent when moving around.

I try to set up the tent so that the slope takes me toward the opening of the tent with my feet slightly downhill. If I have to set it up with the opening higher I tend to come in more contact with the inside of the tent during the night. I try to stay in "light contact" with my trekking pole without dislodging the pole.

Appalachian Tater

01-22-2008, 01:20

Kirby, Take a look at the Hennessy Hammock @ www.hennessy (http://www.%3Cb%3Ehennessy%3C/b%3E)hammock.com , it is one of the greatest investments I've made in equipment. Slept in it in 20 degree Arkansas weather, had to have a sleeping pad to stay warm even in a 15 degree down bag, but it's easy to set-up, gets you off the ground and is extremely comfortable. No need for a ground cloth and weighs about 2 pounds. Headed to Hot Springs the end of March and won't go without it.

Good idea, Kirby, get rid of your tent and buy a hammock, then you won't have to buy a ground cloth you don't need anyway!

fiddlehead

01-22-2008, 06:26

I must agree with those who question the validity of a ground cloth.
What are these companies saying? That they made a faulty floor so you will need to buy another one to put underneath it?

I too have never had a floor leak except once when we were winter camping and the candle (inside) melted down and burnt a hole in the floor. I am quite sure that it would've burnt thru tyvek, sil-nylon, rip stop or whatever other plastic i could've put under there.

what's the point really?

Smile

01-22-2008, 09:46

How do you handle the sagging of the angled wall? I can not figure out how to push it out farther, without having to attach a string to a loop on the outside.

Hi Kirby, I hope you hike is awsome. A few words on the Lunar Solo E, it's a great design, more condensation than I was willing to deal with, and I actually had the conversation with two other hikers at the SoRuck about the sagging wall - each of us could not get it to be completely set up right after many nights of use. It seems that one corner always hangs a bit lower, even when it's tied out with that outside loop.

It's not a really big deal, but can be in rain if one side sags and water seeps thru the silnylon at that point. Remember when you first set it up, come back 15 - 20 minutes later and tighten it up again :)

It's a nice lightweight though, and plenty of room for one person.

Newb

01-22-2008, 10:01

I wouldn't mind a piece of Tyvek or sylnylon to use as a place to sit my butt when I take a break or use as a quickie shelter when I need it. I don't use a groundcloth, though.

dessertrat

01-22-2008, 10:15

What does one do when it rains with no ground cloth, going on the assumption you can not get to a town, nor have access to a shelter?

Kirby

What kind of tent do you have? If it has anything remotely like a bathtub floor, it shouldn't leak.

Another vote for no groundcloth, just be careful in selecting your tent site, make sure you don't put it on any very sharp rocks or sticks. If you do get a little hole, use a bicycle tube patch kit or duct tape to patch it. A tent isn't supposed to last forever.

Thoughtful Owl

01-22-2008, 10:45

I use a piece of tyvek as a ground cloth under my tent but not for keeping moisture out, my tent does that. The purpose of my ground cloth is to help keep the tent cleaner. Maybe I would change my mind on a throu. But considering tyvek doesn't way anything, I doubt it. Have a good walk in the woods Kirby.

TO

Skyline

01-22-2008, 11:02

In my "rookie year" I made this mistake. I paid for it......:eek:

I bet many of us have made the same rookie mistake. I'm sure I would have if a more experienced hiker hadn't warned me about it.

I know the trend in this thread is anti-groundcloth. Many tents, mine included, could probably get by without one so long as we find ideal sites to set up, and we are very careful. But I use a groundcloth for the extra insurance against tent damage it provides, and to keep my tent cleaner. The groundcloth weighs very little, and is stored in its own small silnylon stuff sack so even if it's muddy in the AM it won't "contaminate" the tent or anything else when I pack it up.

Also, a groundcloth provides something to throw down on a filthy shelter floor if you happen to be stopping at one for a nap, or even for the night.

YMMV.

Chicken Feathers

01-22-2008, 11:49

ChinMusic

01-22-2008, 11:52

Also, a groundcloth provides something to throw down on a filthy shelter floor if you happen to be stopping at one for a nap, or even for the night.

I also carry a piece of Tyvek or similar reasons, other than that of a groundcloth. I will have it set up as a porch for entering my tent as I set up, to help keep keep the tent cleaner/dryer. If we are having a campfire I will have it with me as I set up supper. Once night comes I just shove it under my tent so it doesn't blow away.

It also gives me the option of Cowboy camping should the conditions be favorable.

Johnny Swank

01-22-2008, 12:02

Another no-groundcloth voter here. If we use a tent, the groundcloth stays home. We actually started putting our sleeping pads UNDER the tent when we paddled the Mississippi River. Worked great, and it kept the pads in place much better. We've gone to doing this when we use the tarp, and put the pads under a tyvek groundcloth.

NICKTHEGREEK

01-22-2008, 12:16

Does that mean set up your tent on the on the soaking wet ground during the rain and deal with it for the night?

Kirby
ewwwwwwwwwwwwwww sleeping on the ground with just a pretty waterproof tent floor between you and all that water?????? Hiking is gross.

ChinMusic

01-22-2008, 13:05

Kirby

01-22-2008, 18:44

ewwwwwwwwwwwwwww sleeping on the ground with just a pretty waterproof tent floor between you and all that water?????? Hiking is gross.

LOL, I have to admit, I was getting a bit of that feeling too. He just wants to do what is best. He'll find out soon enough about the "ewwwwwww-factor".

Hiking, who said I'm hiking?:-? I've been working with Warrgy on a teleporting machine for the trail. Hiking? Hahah, yeah right, that would mean actually having to do work:D.

Thanks for the information everyone, I am going to seam seal my tent within a couple of weeks. Do you seem seal the inside or outside?

Thanks,
Kirby

A-Train

01-22-2008, 18:53

Hiking, who said I'm hiking?:-? I've been working with Warrgy on a teleporting machine for the trail. Hiking? Hahah, yeah right, that would mean actually having to do work:D.

Thanks for the information everyone, I am going to seam seal my tent within a couple of weeks. Do you seem seal the inside or outside?

Thanks,
Kirby

You seal the OUTSIDE of the seams

slow

01-22-2008, 19:10

Kirby,call Ron and send the tent back,he is a great guy and will fix and even seal it for 25$.

Dont take your home not right.

Call Ron and i will pay to make it right,so you have a great walk.:)

hopefulhiker

01-22-2008, 19:20

Drop the groundcloth, The AT has plenty of good campsites, and silnylon is pretty tough.

Kirby

01-22-2008, 19:34

Kirby,call Ron and send the tent back,he is a great guy and will fix and even seal it for 25$.

Dont take your home not right.

Call Ron and i will pay to make it right,so you have a great walk.:)

Ron?

Kirby

A-Train

01-22-2008, 19:39

Ron Moak, the guy who probably stiched your Six Moons tarptent, if that's what you own

Kirby

01-22-2008, 19:43

No, Lunar Solo, I just called, repair for the brass ring will be free, seam sealing will be 30 dollars, I will put it in the mail tomorrow.

Kirby

highway

01-22-2008, 19:43

I would have to opine on the no side.
I no longer use a tent but do use a silnylon tarp. I stopped using a ground cloth in it because i never found it necessary, even in pouring rain.

slow

01-22-2008, 19:51

Ron?

Kirby

I will pay for sealing to Ron if you like?

ChinMusic

01-22-2008, 20:01

No, Lunar Solo, I just called, repair for the brass ring will be free,
I'm glad you are sending the LS back to have the ring fixed. I would think you might have had problems if you didn't.

ChinMusic

01-22-2008, 20:09

Kirby - Footslogger gave me some good advice regarding the Lunar Solo:

I found a rectangular nylon mesh sack (roughly 12' x 5") shortly after I bought the Lunar Solo because I found it too tough on the tent (and me) to cram it back into the stuff sack provided by Six Moon Designs. Anyway ...if/when my tent is wet I secure the mesh bag under the two horizonal straps on the back center of the pack.

Being in open air, the tent generally dries out while I'm hiking and I sometimes take the mesh sack off the pack while I am taking a break or lunch and remove the tent/drape it over a bush to dry out completely.

Look into the idea of ditching the LS stuff sack for a mesh version. This would be a net weigh savings too as a wet tent is heavy. Having it dry out, at least some, while you are hiking is a plus.

Kirby

01-22-2008, 20:21

I will pay for sealing to Ron if you like?

I can handle this one, thanks for the offer though (not meant to be rude or sarcastic).

Kirby - Footslogger gave me some good advice regarding the Lunar Solo:

Look into the idea of ditching the LS stuff sack for a mesh version. This would be a net weigh savings too as a wet tent is heavy. Having it dry out, at least some, while you are hiking is a plus.

I have it in a Sea to Summit waterproof stuff sack, it fits nicely, and I don't have to declare war to fit it in, and I can attack it to the side of my pack for storage. I also have the option of putting it under the folding top lid of my pack if I wish to do so.

Thanks for the information,
Kirby