North Shore Road finally dead

[Lilred]

Just read this on the ATC website. It's official. The North Shore Road will not be built. THANK GOODNESS!!! :D

http://www.appalachiantrail.org/site/c.jkLXJ8MQKtH/b.3789465/k.D9BD/ATC_Comments_on_NSR_Decision.htm

[The Solemates]

thats awesome!

now we need to work on I-3!!!

[Lone Wolf]

that sucks. i was hoping for another cool road to ride my harley

[generoll]

you still can. just slip between the posts in the road and go on through the tunnel.

[Ramble~On]

That was one hurdle in the way of the GSMNP getting "Wilderness" status.
With the massive use the park gets and the limited funds it's gonna be interesting to see what happens and what kind of protests come about.
It'd be a nice stretch of near unbroken wilderness though..Cohutta, The Frogs, Bald River, Citico, Slickrock and the Smokies.
:sun

[Max Power]

As far as the post title "North Shore Road Dead," not even close. It's been 65 years and I say there will be at least 5 more years of debate over the money and wilderness aspect. I am not too familiar on the Wilderness aspect... It seems that would mean no electric tools or motor vehicles. I did not want the road, but as a shuttle driver for the families who go and visit their loved ones on the North Shore during decoration days, if deeming that wilderness means stopping those amazing traditions, then I am not for it. The lease we can do is it celebrate that mountain culture and remember those who we took the land from.

[Ramble~On]

While I agree that the issue of the road being built is over - It isn't going to happen. I think it's a long time out before any wilderness designation would be given to the GSMNP and it sure won't happen while that Texas guy is in office. Wilderness designation would bring a lot of changes to the park and that would include motorized equipment and that means chainsaws for trail work etc. I would imagine that Fontana Dam will continue to be open to motorized watercraft as it is a park boundary, not park itself.
If the GSMNP did get wilderness designation it would be interesting to see what would happen. There's a lot to consider when it comes to the guidelines for wilderness. While it might effect the backcountry I doubt it would have any effect on campgrounds, points of interest like Mt. Le Conte Lodge, Cade's Cove, Roaring Fork etc.

[DesertMTB]

That's funny I read the Backpacker magazine 2005 article last night about this.

[DavidNH]

I thought that this park, outside of the road, was wilderness. Hmmm.

Anyway, isn't this a slam dunk issue? I mean of course the park should be kept as wild as possible. What a treasure it is. Who wouldn't want to protect this place?

Anyway, let's all raise a glass and toast the death of this rediculous road. Keep the smokies wild!!

DavidNH

[Darwin again]

From the ATC link above:


ATC will continue to work with the above parties and the National Park Service (NPS) to secure appropriate compensation (approx. $52 million) for Swain County. ATC also applauds the excellent work of Sen. Lamar Alexander (Rep.) of Tennessee and Rep. Heath Shuler (Dem.) of North Carolina and the rest of the N.C. and Tenn. congressional delegations in obtaining a first installment of $6 million dollars for this settlement in the FY’08 budget.

Swain County has mastered the art of extorting gubmint money. They're getting paid for something they didn't ever -- and will never -- build. Amazing.

Excerpt from the Record of Decision briefing statement:

Under terms of this “1943 Agreement,” a new road to replace NC 288, which was flooded during construction of TVA’s Fontana Dam, would be built if Congressappropriated the funding. In the 1960’s the NPS constructed approximately 7 miles of the road before abandoning the effort due to environmental impacts and engineering problems. No further federal funding was received for the road until 2001 when $16 million was appropriated to resume work on the project, triggering
the current Environmental Impact Statement (EIS) process.

At least leveler heads have prevailed and the land will go unmolested, which is a good thing. But the idea of paying a county, 65 years later, for a road that is gone and will never be rebuilt, is absurd.

I wonder what lawyer's dark nether regions they pulled the $52 million figure out of?

[Darwin again]

Also from the briefing statement:

Any additional funding called for in a new agreement would be subject to appropriation.

I'd say the chances of that happening are rather slim, given present tight and tightening fiscal circumstances. (The gubmint, she's broke, bro.) At least Swain County will be able to buy a few cop cars and some slurpees.

[Lilred]

From the ATC link above:



Swain County has mastered the art of extorting gubmint money. They're getting paid for something they didn't ever -- and will never -- build. Amazing.

Excerpt from the Record of Decision briefing statement:


At least leveler heads have prevailed and the land will go unmolested, which is a good thing. But the idea of paying a county, 65 years later, for a road that is gone and will never be rebuilt, is absurd.

I wonder what lawyer's dark nether regions they pulled the $52 million figure out of?


They're not giving the county the money for not building the road, they are giving it to them for the land that they cannot get to anymore, where relatives are buried. the Gov't's original agreement was to build them a road so they could continue to maintain the gravesites. Hence, the north shore rd. It was either build the road, or buy them off. I don't know how or when they came up with the figure of 52 million, but I'm bettin it was pretty recent. Over the years it became less of a citizen's dispute and more of an economical and political one.

[Max Power]

From the ATC link above:



Swain County has mastered the art of extorting gubmint money. They're getting paid for something they didn't ever -- and will never -- build. Amazing.


I wonder what lawyer's dark nether regions they pulled the $52 million figure out of?

Both Lired and Darwin are wrong. Although Lired is close. The money has nothing to do with cemeteries. Nowhere in the Agreement was cemeteries mentioned. The agreement was created because of the flooding of 288. It was also a way for the Department of Interior to get more park land. The agreement says they would either replace the road or settle with money. So the 52 mil is money to replace 288 (which at the time was a new road that the county still had to pay for even-though it was flooding and thee only road of transport from Deals Gap to Bryson) with inflation.

Again, I'm glad there is no road, but the county deserves their money.

[generoll]

Dunno exactly who gets the white hat in this deal. As I recall, it was that well known environmentalist Richard Nixon who stopped construction on the road. The families living along the Little Tennessee were moved out as the dam filled and flooded out the communities and the road access. I believe that a promise was made to build a new road to allow them to visit the old homesteads and cemeteries, but with the passing of time the original inhabitants have mostly gone to their rewards. In the mean time the economic issues have come to the fore, with those who stand to gain from road building pledging with hand over heart to only be concerned with the needs of the poor displaced families and the county for the most part happily agreeing to settle for cash in lieu of the road.

The good news is that the road will probably not be built anytime soon, if ever. Nice place to fish and hike though.

[Max Power]

Hate to be such a snob, but Generoll is wrong as well. No "promise... to allow then to visit the old homesteads and cemeteries" can be found in the agreement. I'm a stickler on this because that is what those who want the road continue to say, but is not in the agreement only made up to pull at the emotional heart strings of those who will listen. View it here (http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:H-EP88766WwJ:www.northshoreroad.info/memorandumofagreement.pdf+agreement+of+1943&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us).
I heard, just tonight, an interesting idea on the road that I need to research. Sounds a little conspiracy theorists, but worth checking out. All I will say is United Nations and Global Biosphere.

[generoll]

A historically interesting document. And you are correct, there is no mention of visitation in the agreement. In practice however the descendants have been granted special consideration. There is an old school bus along the Lakeshore trail which I am told is used to take folks to visit the cemeteries. Whether the 'promise' was actually made and left out of the agreement or just inferred from the subsequent actions of the government would also be interesting to know.

There was no mention in the document concerning what was offered to the corporate owners of land along the Little Tennessee. You can bet they didn't give up their land without compensation. One has to wonder if this is the only document pertaining to the acquisition of this land for the reservoir and for the park extension.

[Max Power]

That bus use to be for transport, now it just sits there. There are multiple vehicles used, but none that big anymore. I am usually on the decorations as I am a boat shuttle driver that brings them from Cable Cove to which ever cemetery. I know these descendants and consider some my friends. I'm also familiar with all opinions they have and stories they share. The decos started in the 70s as a way to take care of the cemeteries since the park wasn't maintaining then that well. Not sure if it is in writing, but I would like to know and will talk with those who got it started to see.
As far as corporate owners along the Little T. The pay off was not generous. Not even what it was worth, both for private and corporate lands. The biggest pay out was probably for the cooper mine. The owner of the copper mine on Eagle Creek were the only to successfully battle. It wasn't settled until 1983 and they ended up getting one million dollars for their land. Interestingly enough there is over that much money worth of copper, silver, and gold still in the mine. Some private individuals never did sell and their land was just taken.

[Ramble~On]

And when the lakes level is low their are quite a few people panning and dredging Eagle Creek:D Thar's gold in them thar hills!


A recent article mentions that portions of the GSMNP have been maintained as wilderness since 1978 because at that time it was first brought up to give wilderness designation to GSMNP. The park superintendent mentions that if GSMNP got wilderness designation it would apply to sections, not the entire park, nothing would change and Fontana Dam would not be impacted.
Motorized watercraft would continue to operate as normal. Congress would have to approve the wilderness designation. The current GSMNP superintendent says it very unlikely and that since the land has been managed/maintained as wilderness since 1978 it wouldn't matter anyway.

It was my understanding that the majority of people in favor of the N. Shore road want it to be built in order to bring $$$ into starved Swain County...While Gatlinburg and the TN side of the park are "developed" and get plenty of tourist $$$ Bryson City is isolated.
I wonder how many residents of Bryson City would really be happy with their town being transformed into a NC Gatlinburg and all that comes with it.

[Max Power]

Why pan the lake when you can just go in the mine?:eek:
I'm not sure if the majority want it for that reason or is they just feel they were promised the money and think the road will bring them closer to the graves, even-though the opposite would happen if the road was built.
Interesting you mentioned that water-crafts could still use the lake. I mentioned UN and Global Biosphere before... Well I've looked into it and am still confused. The UN owns, or has rights to, Global Biosphere in the US (Yellowstone, Yosemite and the Smokies. Hearing this made me cringe. Not still sure if accurate, but that's scary. Most sites with info were conservative right wing sites. Some in favor of the road believe that the if the county was in charge of the road that would protect it from the UN. That part I know is the stretch to build the road.
I should make a new thread called, "The United Nations owns the Park." That would be a great thread. You know what? I'm going to do it.

[Ramble~On]

I'm pretty sure it was in the Smoky Mountain News where I read the recent article that did a lot of qouting of the man currently over the GSMNP.
He said that the talk of wilderness designation is nothing new and the areas of interest had been maintained as wilderness since 1978. There are no plans to move forward with it, only congress could push it through and even if it did the lake would not be effected..........:-?but this is a gov. employee we're talking about and they have made some promises regarding this area in the past:D.

[Darwin again]

I'm pretty sure it was in the Smoky Mountain News where I read the recent article that did a lot of qouting of the man currently over the GSMNP.
He said that the talk of wilderness designation is nothing new and the areas of interest had been maintained as wilderness since 1978. There are no plans to move forward with it, only congress could push it through and even if it did the lake would not be effected..........:-?but this is a gov. employee we're talking about and they have made some promises regarding this area in the past:D.

Excellent point (last sentence).
I kept thinking about Indian "treaties" as I read about this.

So the millions in payments are going to the county for the loss of the road, but numerous private land owners got the big guvmint-flavored shaft?

I didn't even think about access to the cemetery in my above post. I'm thinking that if it's a question of building a road just for the cemetery visitors, it's a done deal: never will happen.

But I'm also thinking the chances of Swain County collecting the remaining what, $46 million?, ranges between slim to none.

[Ramble~On]

The TN side of the park is developed and gets plenty of tourism. Some hoped that the road would put Bryson City on the map. Swain County's main source of income seems to be from the money collected through speeding tickets:rolleyes: Hopefully...with 46 million bucks they can afford to get some cops who "Protect and Serve" everybody instead of themselves and the county.

Hmmmm...I smell my own hard feelings?