Shelter Camping??

[Jason of the Woods]

Do you really have to make reservation in the Smokies? Can't we just pitch our tent outside of the shelters? I don't like rules.:mad:

[Lone Wolf]

depends on who you ask. i'm sure the rules sticklers will preach you an answer. i ain't going there

[Backpackrat]

u hav to hav back county permit

[Jason of the Woods]

I'm ok with the permit but I don't want to plan my trip around having to be at a certain shelter on a certain night. What if we find an awesome campsite and want to stay there and what is we want to use our tent. We paid a lot for it why not use it.

[Jason of the Woods]

I can't spell.;)

[Gray Blazer]

we want to use our tent. We paid a lot for it why not use it.

I paid a lot for my ATV and I want to use it in GSMNP wherever I want. ;)

[whitefoot_hp]

I paid a lot for my ATV and I want to use it in GSMNP wherever I want. ;)

great use of logic. not.

[tripp]

There are no campsites - unless you're a hanger - along the AT in the Smokies, and technically you have to have reservations for the shelters though i'm sure that some have stayed in shelters w/o (not saying I ever have.... I plead the fifth...)

[Gray Blazer]

great use of logic. not.

Oh no, the logic police got me. :mad: Just like the ridge runners may get Jason.:cool:

[Lone Wolf]

I'm ok with the permit but I don't want to plan my trip around having to be at a certain shelter on a certain night. What if we find an awesome campsite and want to stay there and what is we want to use our tent. We paid a lot for it why not use it.

just get a permit at the self-registration kiosk ant put "thru-hiker on it and go

[Pedaling Fool]

BTW, what time you going through? I went through twice both times in April and the shelters were full, not being too fond of shelters, I was more than happy to kill some moss (I tented), which is perfectly leagal, actually it's required for "thru-hikers" if the shelters are full.

[Frolicking Dinosaurs]

Do you really have to make reservation in the Smokies? Can't we just pitch our tent outside of the shelters? I don't like rules.:mad:I'm not crazy about the rules in the GSMNP either - especially the fact that shelter use is the only option for non-thru-hikers along the AT. The desire to camp rather than stay in shelters is why I plan to hike the BMT instead of the AT in the GSMNP. There are a lot of campsites available on that trail and most are not rationed (don't require reservations) so the trail allow for flexibility. You are still required to obtain a backcountry permit so that the rangers know who is in the park and where.

[bloodmountainman]

There are a few "USDA approved" campsites. The rules suck, but they are there for crowd control. Control is a word often used by government men!

[GoldenBear]

> I don't like rules.

Then PLEASE stay away from our national parks, whose stewards have struggled for decades to try to prevent deterioration of their natural beauty, and have found that the only way to do so is to enforce rules against over-use. And, I know, you're that ONE PERSON who would NEVER do ANYTHING to harm these national gems, and therefore the rules shouldn't apply to you. Sorry if those who have tried to maintain their beauty have trouble believing your claim to exemption.

If you like the idea of "no rules," feel free to camp in the Palmerton area, where the government made no rules for the zinc miners in the area until a few decades ago. If you don't like camping in that area, then understand why regulations are put in place for both zinc mines and campers.

[whitefoot_hp]

Oh no, the logic police got me. :mad: Just like the ridge runners may get Jason.:cool:

so logic is a joke to you, yet you employ it.

[emerald]

There are a few "USDA approved" campsites.

United States Department of Agriculture has little if anything to do with GSMNP. NPS falls under the Department of Interior.

[bloodmountainman]

United States Department of Agriculture has little if anything to do with GSMNP. NPS falls under the Department of Interior.
Are you a government man?

[Blissful]

Do you really have to make reservation in the Smokies? Can't we just pitch our tent outside of the shelters? I don't like rules.:mad:


Thru hike and you are a little more rule-free, in a way. That is, you can pitch a tent in the shelter area (we also did when the shelters were not quite full). I think you need to have hiked 50 miles on the AT outside the park to qualify as a "thru-hiker" (check the NPS site for specifics though). You also cannot stray off the AT and spend the night on another trail or you are then a section hiker. Section hikers, weekenders, etc must be shelter bound with reservations.

[Blissful]

SOG - your government needs you. :)

[emerald]

SOG - your government needs you. :)

I'll tell them you said so.

[Rcarver]

Everyone always wants to complain about the smokies' rules. Don't go there if you don't want to put up with the rules. I spend most of my nights in the park (50to 60 a year)because it is a quick destination for me. I put up with the rules because if there weren't any, the park would look like a trash dump. Which at some of the campsites during certain times it kinda does.

[Jason of the Woods]

What are the thousands of hikers doing to the trail, Einstien?



> I don't like rules.

Then PLEASE stay away from our national parks, whose stewards have struggled for decades to try to prevent deterioration of their natural beauty, and have found that the only way to do so is to enforce rules against over-use. And, I know, you're that ONE PERSON who would NEVER do ANYTHING to harm these national gems, and therefore the rules shouldn't apply to you. Sorry if those who have tried to maintain their beauty have trouble believing your claim to exemption.

If you like the idea of "no rules," feel free to camp in the Palmerton area, where the government made no rules for the zinc miners in the area until a few decades ago. If you don't like camping in that area, then understand why regulations are put in place for both zinc mines and campers.

[Jason of the Woods]

I don't mind rules at all. I suppose that things are taken very literally here? I just don't want to have to keep a deadline while backpaking. That's what we do for the rest of our life. I guess that we will just pitch our tent at the shelter when we get there and face the long arm of the law!!;)

P.S. Thank you for the sarcastic answers that a few of you gave. Whatever makes you feel cool in your own mind...........

[Jason of the Woods]

We are starting from Springer on April 4th.

[Frolicking Dinosaurs]

We are starting from Springer on April 4th.You will be a thru hiker by the GSMNP rules and will not have to reserve space -- and you will likely find the shelters mostly full and be able to use your tent.

[mrburns]

The AT Thru-Hiker's Companion (2007) says that while other hikers must follow the reservation rules, thru-hikers can tent out at the shelters. GSNP really makes an effort to help out the thru-hiker while at the same time preserving the park as much as possible from overuse.

Here's a summary of the other info from that same book...

There are typically 4 spots reserved inside the shelters anyway for thru-hikers from 15-March till 15-June.

And if those spots are already taken, then it is required that the 5th+ thru-hiker pitch a tent.

You still need a permit to enter the park in the first place though, or you end up with a $125 ticket.

[GoldenBear]

> I suppose that things are taken very literally here?

I regret that I interpreted your statement, "I don't like rules" as meaning you don't like rules. If that was taking your statement too literally, I apologize. Since you now say, "I don't mind rules," I suppose I can think you don't mind rules. I'll try to resolve these two statements -- tell me if my interpretation is wrong.

> I guess that we will just pitch our tent at the shelter

Bottom line -- you know there's a rule against camping near a shelter, but you're going to disobey it anyway. Would I be correct in thinking you don't mind rules, as long as they're for other people to follow; and that your statement, "I don't like rules" applies to those that are inconvenient to you?

BTW, I find rules just as inconvenient as you do. I also see what happens when people refuse to follow them, particularly in areas that cannot handle people who refuse to obey them for reasons such as, "That's what we do for the rest of our life." I thus conclude that restricting my freedom is a small price for me to pay to ensure that future generations will enjoy these areas as much as we do today.

[Jason of the Woods]

I want to thank mburns and the dinosaurs for their very helpful information provided from the guide books.

Just in case you missed that Mr Bear I did say rule books in the previous sentence. Dude, you just have too much time on your hands but I do always enjoy a bit of side banter.:D

[Footslogger]

Do you really have to make reservation in the Smokies? Can't we just pitch our tent outside of the shelters? I don't like rules.:mad:

==================================

In 2003 when I hiked the AT I wasn't exactly going for the land speed record - needless to say I generally arrived at shelters in the Smokies long after all spaces had been taken. I pitched my tent in the areas around all the shelters and never heard a word about it.

Sometimes it's easier to get forgiveness than permission.

'Slogger

[Tennessee Viking]

Do you really have to make reservation in the Smokies? Can't we just pitch our tent outside of the shelters? I don't like rules.:mad:
Most of the shelters in the Smokies are fenced in, and camping is very restrictive. The park really needs to know if shelters and campsites are being overfilled. And making sure everyone gets out safely.

If you are caught without a camping permit, you might end up getting a fine.

[SGT Rock]

Last thing - the permit is free and you can self register it at the entrance. With your plan it is too easy. Don't sweat most of the rules as they will not totally apply to you. You qualify as a "Thru-hiker" for the park.

Shoot for a shelter for your daily mileage stop point. If you get there and the shelter isn't full yet, hang back outside and don't claim a space. My experience around that time period is enough thru-hikers will show up to make the shelter over capacity. Once that happens you can legit camp outside the shelter.

[HIKER7s]

Last thing - the permit is free and you can self register it at the entrance. With your plan it is too easy. Don't sweat most of the rules as they will not totally apply to you. You qualify as a "Thru-hiker" for the park.

Shoot for a shelter for your daily mileage stop point. If you get there and the shelter isn't full yet, hang back outside and don't claim a space. My experience around that time period is enough thru-hikers will show up to make the shelter over capacity. Once that happens you can legit camp outside the shelter.


Agree, shelters are too stuffy anyway and its a better time hanging out and getting to gear setup later. Its worth it to tent.

[Gray Blazer]

I don't like to sleep in shelters. One time I got a back country permit and reserved a spot at Tri-Corner Knob. When I arrived there I announced that I was going to set up my tent you should have seen the people already there and how their collective jaws dropped and the dirty looks I got. I said, "Baaa" (sheeple talk) and slept in the shelter. BTW, I really don't own an ATV and Whitefoot, stop accusing me of using logic or being humourous.:banana

[Jason of the Woods]

I think that we will just do the hang back thing. I'm slow anyhow. I will have the permit. That is easily obtained at Fontana. Other than that I will take my chances.

[Gray Blazer]

One of the ridge runners told me that the tower on Mt Cammerrer would be a good place to spend the night. I think he was just thinking out loud. It is not listed as a campsite or shelter and there are signs there that explicitly tell you not to sleep there. However, looking through the Views from NC/TN in the photo gallery, there may have been a few WBers sleeping there due to the Sunset/Sunrise pics from Mt Cammerrer. I suppose the individuals could have gotten up really early or hiked late into the night to get there for the sun event.

[SunnyWalker]

I thought folks used the shelters cuz they have fencing around them to keep bears away. And I thought this was mandatory. May pick a spot and hang a hammock other than at shelters? Thanks. -SunnyWalker

[Appalachian Tater]

I think that we will just do the hang back thing. I'm slow anyhow. I will have the permit. That is easily obtained at Fontana. Other than that I will take my chances.

If you go during the spring thru-hiker season, you won't need to hang back. There will be plenty of hikers who WANT to sleep in the shelter so you will be able to tent in full compliance with the rules. They don't care if the people who got there last are the ones tenting or in the shelter. If the shelter is full, it's full. You don't take a number like at the deli.

[10-K]

Well... I'm a section hiker and I don't think I'll pretend to be a thru-hiker and I am preparing to hike this section starting at Davenport Gap and hiking south.

So, I just got off the phone trying to reserve my spots in the shelters for dates 2/29, 3/1, 3/2 and 3/3 and the ranger told me I'd have to call back on January 29th because they only took reservations 30 days in advance.

Having to stay in a shelter isn't something I look forward to but that's they way it is so I'm just going to roll with the flow. Who knows, I may have a good timel.

Thanks
THomas

[bessiebreeze]

If you are a section hiker and want to do the Smokies, the summer is the best time, after the through hikers have already gone through. And you do need to get reservations for the shelters if you a section hiker.
Last summer I hiked the section from Newfound Gap up to Davenport Gap. It was not difficult at all to get reservations. The shelters in that section are great. They are not fenced. They are all big (except for the first one near Davenport Gap), they all have privies, a good water supply, bear cables, and most have a fireplace inside the shelter. The numbers of hikers in the summer is much less than in the spring and fall.
One problem last summer was the lack of water in some places - in the southern section of the Smokies, from Newfound Gap down to Fontana, the water supply kinda dried up. Hopefully this summer, things will be better.
Good luck - the Smokies are great.

[Nearly Normal]

I have not sectioned the Smokies AT yet but planning a trip. I was under the impression that the shelters did not have privies.
What is the fact of the matter?

[Frolicking Dinosaurs]

Just like the ridge runners may get Jason.:cool:Ridge Runners can't write tickets - only Rangers can do that.

[Gray Blazer]

Ridge Runners can't write tickets - only Rangers can do that.
Don't bother me with facts....lol...:D

[GoldenBear]

> May pick a spot and hang a hammock other than at shelters?

According to
www.nps.gov/grsm/planyourvisit/backcountry-regs.htm
you can only camp at designated campgrounds, for which you must have a backcountry permit. Just picking a spot, either away from designated camp-sites or without a permit, is prohibited.

[Frolicking Dinosaurs]

What the GSMNP rules say:
A thru hiker according to the GSMNP rules is someone who hikes at least 50 miles prior to entering the GSMNP and plans to hike 50 miles beyond the GSMNP. All backcountry camping in the GSMNP is required to happen at designated campsites or within site of a shelter if the shelter is full - this applies to all trails in the GSMNP. Since all designated sites along the AT have shelters on them, most section hikers must use the shelter system to legally hike the GSMNP. All people except thru hikers are required to use shelters along the AT and to reserve space for each night prior to departing. Thru hikers are only required to obtain a backcountry permit, do not have to reserve specific sites and must either stay in the shelter or camp or hang within sight of the shelter if the shelter is full.

[Lilred]

I thought folks used the shelters cuz they have fencing around them to keep bears away. And I thought this was mandatory. May pick a spot and hang a hammock other than at shelters? Thanks. -SunnyWalker


Most, if not all the fences have been removed by now. You cannot hang a hammock or tent anywhere you like in the Smokies. It must be at the shelter areas.

[NICKTHEGREEK]

I paid a lot for my ATV and I want to use it in GSMNP wherever I want. ;)
I didn't pay all that much for my FJ-40, but with the really big tires and low gears it gets truly horrid gas mileage and gas is really expensive and in short supply. I want to use it where ever I want. Without mufflers too!

[Gray Blazer]

I didn't pay all that much for my FJ-40, but with the really big tires and low gears it gets truly horrid gas mileage and gas is really expensive and in short supply. I want to use it where ever I want. Without mufflers too!

Drive around the tentsites at the shelters in GSMNP. Might as well break all the rules.:banana

[whitefoot_hp]

what prospects does the elite hammocker face in this GSMNP setting? are there good trees in the shelter area?

what about camping 'out in the wild' away from shelters?

[Lone Wolf]

what prospects does the elite hammocker face in this GSMNP setting? are there good trees in the shelter area?

what about camping 'out in the wild' away from shelters?

plenty of opportunity

[Marta]

I have not sectioned the Smokies AT yet but planning a trip. I was under the impression that the shelters did not have privies.
What is the fact of the matter?

Some do; some don't. The '07 Companion lists Spence Field, Double Spring Gap, Tri-Corner Knob, Pecks Corner, Mt. Collins, and Icewater Spring shelters as having privies.

[Pedaling Fool]

Some do; some don't. The '07 Companion lists Spence Field, Double Spring Gap, Tri-Corner Knob, Pecks Corner, Mt. Collins, and Icewater Spring shelters as having privies.
That sound's about right, that's about half of the shelters through the smokies. Another privieless section would be between Spivey Gap and Damascus, Va., the area maintained by the Tennessee Eastman Hiking Club (TEHC), there are very few if any privies in that section.

[NICKTHEGREEK]

what prospects does the elite hammocker face in this GSMNP setting? are there good trees in the shelter area?

what about camping 'out in the wild' away from shelters?

What is an elite hammocker? Is that like a Navy Seal is an elite warrior? If so what makes you one among the elite?

[BREEZER]

I would rather apoligize than to ask permission.

[tenlots]

There were lots of bears last year in the Smokies. We had a ranger with a gun at Mollies Ridge and there were 2 rangers at birch spring campsite. This was in May of 07.

[Tobiah]

Just hiked 2 shelters on the AT with Scout Troop, and this is what we learned: Reservation required for shelter, must be able to show permit to officials (we didn't see any)... thru-hikers must be hiking 50 miles on BOTH sides of the park to qualify for tenting at full shelters... our second night, we had three thru-hikers, non-registered for the shelter, and we squeezed them in anyway (15 people total!)... I don't know what they would do if they caught you tenting after dark... probably enforce the Patriot Act on you, send you to Guantanamo.

[gold bond]

I along with 5 others just got back from hiking from Fontanna to Clingmans. We were shooting for Newfound Gap but the weather held us up at Mollies Ridge for a day. We called in our reservations about thirty days before we went (9-22-08) and got them with no problems. We went to Bryson City for a great dinner Wed night (10-22-08) and got dropped off at the Fontanna Hilton that night. Talked with a thru hiker there headed south and after a great nights sleep headed out that Thursday morning. Hiked up to Shuck Stack for lunch. Went up the firetower and it was without a doubt one of the most gorgeous views I have seen in awhile. Headed on to Mollies Ridge shelter where we were to stay that night. Friday morning was a bust! 60-70- MPH winds and relentless rain. We were gonna give it a hour or so but it lasted till about 4 that day so we decided to spend the night there...again. This is where the res thing bit us! That night there was a total of 15 in the shelter! It was cool. Drank some brandy, shared some trail stories and all had a great time. Continued on to Derricks Knob where we met some really nice hikers and had a great meal. Headed out to Clingmans Dome where the views where simply incedible. All in all I had a great time and reservations or not, shelters or not, tenting or not I would do it all over again with no "reservations" at all!

[gold bond]

Forgot to mention. Most, if not all shelters have been pretty much rebuilt or remoldeled and are great. They all have nice big fireplaces and hold about 14 hikers easily. We were told that the shelters would book ten in and leave four for thr hikers. Thru hikers had to give way for hikers with reservations though. Question...if there were only 10 spaces reserved why would anyone have to give way...mmmm? I only saw two privies on that section, Spence Field and either Icewater or Double Spring shelter. The shelter right before you start the accent up Clingmans. Only one, Russell Field shelter had a fence. Water is very minimal on that section. You can water up at Fontanna. Campsite 113 has a little but you have to walk about 300 yards to find it and it takes forever. Mollies ridge had a note that led us to a small amount and it was drying up fast a liter a hour, maybe! We just put our pots out in the rain and drank that! Derricks knob had great water coming out of a pipe about 100 yds down. Silars Bald is good. One question I do have is....It was told to me that the reason there are few privies is because of the amount of traffic in the GSNP. Has anyone looked at the "toilet" fields lately? It looks like a war zone! Between all the digging and some people just crapping on top of the ground its horrible. I think someone needs to rethink that one!