Karl Meltzer Speed Hike Attempt

[max patch]

This guy has the resume to take his attempt seriously.
====
Beginning August 5th on the summit of Mt. Kathadin I will begin my quest to run to Georgia faster than anyone else has. Andrew Thompson currently holds the record of 47 days and change. A stiff record that will be tough to challenge. GPS tracking and daily updates will give the world a chance to watch a goat run through the woods…all day long! Any takers or supporters out there? I welcome any assistance, but will NOT be muled in any form. To leave a comment click on the comments above right. -Speedgoat Karl

http://karlmeltzer.com/

[Marta]

I'm not laughing at this one. Go, Karl!

[Lone Wolf]

he's the real deal. smart starting at Katahdin too. i tried to get Pete Palmer to start there too but he wouldn't

[Freeleo]

Published by admin (http://karlmeltzer.com/?author=1) on January 8, 2008

nice to see that wild cowboy is inspiring speed hikers all across the country:)

now if we could only get them to start on the same day and make it a race......cowboy would blow him away according to his prophesy......cannonball run AT style

[JAK]

Are there any good links that might have data on how many calories these guys eat and burn, as a function of distance, elevation gain, and total weight on feet? I am also curious how many calories these guys burn when sleeping at night, whether all the repairs that are going on in their bodies might actually help keep them warm at night, or how much more insulation they might need at night because they have less body fat and more need for rest?

I'm no knocking these guys, but it would be nice to see more data.

[Pedaling Fool]

Seeing people like this only makes me feel more sorry for WildCowboy.

[Marta]

Are there any good links that might have data on how many calories these guys eat and burn, as a function of distance, elevation gain, and total weight on feet? I am also curious how many calories these guys burn when sleeping at night, whether all the repairs that are going on in their bodies might actually help keep them warm at night, or how much more insulation they might need at night because they have less body fat and more need for rest?

I'm no knocking these guys, but it would be nice to see more data.

I heard a talk by Flyin' Brian Robinson about his hike planning. He used 6000 calories a day as his target for food. He started thin and could not afford to run at a deficit.

[JAK]

This is why I like the metric system. I just try and do some of the same stuff, but in metric. It still ain't easy, and most of it still ain't doable, but its fun trying.

Run a kilometer in 4 minutes. 26 kilometer marathon. Perhaps a 100km ultra.
Usually I'm just happy hiking 20 kilometers per day, instead of trying for 20 miles.

The weight lifting in metric sure sucks though. :)

[dessertrat]

He's cheating. It's downhill from Katahdin.

[Blue Jay]

He's cheating. It's downhill from Katahdin.

I agree, also the mountains are all lower on the north sides.

[oops56]

I agree, also the mountains are all lower on the north sides.
Yep you can run down hill and brake your leg:D

[Javasanctum]

Where is the link to off-trail betting?

[River Runner]

Definitely looks like this guy has the background to do it. I also note that instead of bragging, he says it will be a tough record to beat.

Best of luck to him in his attempt.

[Speedgoat Karl]

Thanks for all the good words! I'll need lots of good vibes to hang in for at least 47 days. I am also coordinating an effort to "Clean the AT". With my support crew and the help of many who will provide mental support and crewing duties, we will attempt to pick up more garbage bags than days spent on the trail. Hopefully the number is low, but unfortunately after running on the AT in Pennsylvania two weeks ago, I could have picked up 25 bags at two trailheads. I thought that was a shame, so I thought it would be a good idea to pick it up. I may be from Utah, but we're all in this together, come join us and bring a garbage bag. Help us do more than just run/hike it! For more info on our "Clean the AT" project and the tracking devices I'll be using continue to check in at karlmeltzer.com these next 7 months!http://www.karlmeltzer.com

[Tin Man]

he's the real deal. smart starting at Katahdin too. i tried to get Pete Palmer to start there too but he wouldn't

L. Wolf, is that you who posted on Meltzer's site volunteering to help in Virginia? :cool:

And you are going to see Lonnie off at Springer. When will you have time for hiking? :-?

[Pedaling Fool]

...we will attempt to pick up more garbage bags than days spent on the trail....
You'll be able to attain that goal by just picking up trash at that road crossing near US19E, between Roan Mountain, Tn & Elk Park, NC.

[GGS2]

... I am also coordinating an effort to "Clean the AT". With my support crew and the help of many who will provide mental support and crewing duties, we will attempt to pick up more garbage bags than days spent on the trail. Hopefully the number is low, but unfortunately after running on the AT in Pennsylvania two weeks ago, I could have picked up 25 bags at two trailheads. I thought that was a shame, so I thought it would be a good idea to pick it up. I may be from Utah, but we're all in this together, come join us and bring a garbage bag. Help us do more than just run/hike it! For more info on our "Clean the AT" project and the tracking devices I'll be using continue to check in at karlmeltzer.com these next 7 months!http://www.karlmeltzer.com

That is absolutely fabulous! I always pick up a few things on a hike, and I try to do as much as I can. It really makes me sad to see junk lying around where it doesn't need to be. I think it is a beautiful idea to promote this with your record attempt. If Fishing Fred is around, maybe he can make some plastic bags up with an appropriate motto. Make it the fashion statement of the 2008 class! "My Rain Gear Packs S***!" Nah, somebody here can come up with a good one!

[spittinpigeon]

He's cheating. It's downhill from Katahdin.


Nah, it's all uphill until Clingman's, after that it's a breeze.

[warren doyle]

Finally, after listening to both an imposter and an unrealistic hiker, it is nice to see a serious contender to the AT supported endurance record. He will find out how tough Grierson, Horton, Palmer and Thompson were.

It will be interesting to follow his progress along with Jennifer Pharr's sobo attempt at the unsupported women's AT endurance record (i.e., 93 days).

[jesse]

but will NOT be muled in any form.

What does that mean?

[Speedgoat Karl]

The term "Muling" in Ultrarunning refers to other people carrying gear or providing that extra flashlight in the darkness. I will be "supported", like Andrew Thompson and have a crew assist me with drops,water...things like that. Many Ultras allow pacers, these "pacers" often carry small things for they're runner. I don't think this is fair in the competitive world. There is only a small percentage of people who use mules, I don't know there names and don't really care, it's just my view of what is right. Without pacers or mules the playing field is more even. I'll carry my own stuff! The unsupported record is another beast, an entirely different thing...perhaps something to think about in the future. http://www.karlmeltzer.com

[warren doyle]

I don't think that Pete Palmer and Andrew Thompson were 'muled' either on their supported AT endurance records.

Now 'Cave Dog' with his LT supported endurance record is another story....

I wish you well on your attempt - just remember, white blazes the entire way.

[ed bell]

What will a typical overnight consist of Karl? Just wondering. No presumptions or judging from my end.:)

[Lone Wolf]

L. Wolf, is that you who posted on Meltzer's site volunteering to help in Virginia? :cool:

And you are going to see Lonnie off at Springer. When will you have time for hiking? :-?

yeah and yeah. i'm a cyberhiker

[Lone Wolf]

The term "Muling" in Ultrarunning refers to other people carrying gear or providing that extra flashlight in the darkness. I will be "supported", like Andrew Thompson and have a crew assist me with drops,water...things like that. Many Ultras allow pacers, these "pacers" often carry small things for they're runner. I don't think this is fair in the competitive world. There is only a small percentage of people who use mules, I don't know there names and don't really care, it's just my view of what is right. Without pacers or mules the playing field is more even. I'll carry my own stuff! The unsupported record is another beast, an entirely different thing...perhaps something to think about in the future. http://www.karlmeltzer.com

good stuff. you will succeed

[Speedgoat Karl]

Yo Ed, Elevated legs, large consumption of food, perhaps a massage, things like that. And always a good nights sleep. Chilling out in the RV and preparing for the next day. I/someone will also log daily info. I'll have a tracking system so the world can watch too, it's super high tech and on the cutting edge of technology. I'm working on that right now. I'll be testing it in the Utah Desert in April and will report in to see if it works right. Alot of this is unknown to me, the multi-day adventures, after a few weeks I'll have it all figured out...hopefully. The key is the crew I have lined up, many who are crewing me have done the entire AT or at least a large portion. The crew is the most important part. All I have to do is keep going. I am hoping my technical running skills and extra running speed will carry me to Springer Mt. faster than anyone else...We'll have to wait and see. "Always respect the distance". Speedgoat Karl http://www.karlmeltzer.com

[ed bell]

Thanks for the reply and good luck to you.:sun I'll be rootin' for you.

[JAK]

The term "Muling" in Ultrarunning refers to other people carrying gear or providing that extra flashlight in the darkness. I will be "supported", like Andrew Thompson and have a crew assist me with drops,water...things like that. Many Ultras allow pacers, these "pacers" often carry small things for they're runner. I don't think this is fair in the competitive world. There is only a small percentage of people who use mules, I don't know there names and don't really care, it's just my view of what is right. Without pacers or mules the playing field is more even. I'll carry my own stuff! The unsupported record is another beast, an entirely different thing...perhaps something to think about in the future. http://www.karlmeltzer.comLOL
When I read your first post I misread it as "I will not be muled in any forum".
I thought it was some sort of a metaphor for people getting on your back.

Here are some good vibes coming your way...

:sun:banana:welcome

[TinAbbey]

It would also be cool if the record still stood after this attempt. build some suspense. a monkey wrench.

[refreeman]

Speedgoat Karl, best of luck to you on your attempt to set the new AT thru hike speed record. May the weather cool you when you are to hot, and the ground grip and hold your feet for a balanced stride, and you always find the water and food you need. I believe it is more likely that you will be successful because you have chosen to hike southbound.

SOBO is a very different hike than NOBO. The fact is NOBO is more difficult than SOBO. So, in my opinion, you will rightfully not garner equivalent respect as if you had set the new AT thru hike speed record NOBO.

That doesn’t mean you aren’t a super hiker Speedgoat Karl. However, for those that know the AT, your outstanding achievement will always be one significant notch less than a NOBO Thru hike speed record of an equivalent time.

Just the fact that you are attempting this hike is very impressive. And the fact that you chose the higher ground to never accept mules multiplies your impressiveness. I wish you success.

[Lone Wolf]

I believe it is more likely that you will be successful because you have chosen to hike southbound.

The fact is NOBO is more difficult than SOBO. So, in my opinion, you will rightfully not garner equivalent respect as if you had set the new AT thru hike speed record NOBO.

However, for those that know the AT, your outstanding achievement will always be one significant notch less than a NOBO Thru hike speed record of an equivalent time.



what a crock o' *hit :D

[JAK]

That's exactly what I thought he meant by "I will not be muled in any forum". :D

[Pedaling Fool]

...SOBO is a very different hike than NOBO. The fact is NOBO is more difficult than SOBO. So, in my opinion, you will rightfully not garner equivalent respect as if you had set the new AT thru hike speed record NOBO....
How the hell did you come to this conclusion?

[Blue Jay]

I believe it is more likely that you will be successful because you have chosen to hike southbound.

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]SOBO is a very different hike than NOBO. The fact is NOBO is more difficult than SOBO. So, in my opinion, you will rightfully not garner equivalent respect as if you had set the new AT thru hike record That doesn’t mean you aren’t a super hiker Speedgoat Karl. However, for those that know the AT, your outstanding achievement will always be one significant notch less than a NOBO Thru hike speed record of an equivalent time.

this should be in the humor section as it is the hysterical.

[Speedgoat Karl]

The reason I chose SOBO is because Andrew's Record is SOBO. I also am running a few other 100 milers this year. Coyote Two Moon in March and Western States in June. It fits my schedule best. Honestly, the record NOBO and SOBO are both different, I chose the fastest time to beat, the same way. Many people ask which direction at the Hardrock 100 is faster...They both start and end at the same place, so I consider it the same! I'll have to go NOBO sometime and find out which is tougher! I'm sure they'll both be tough any way I look at it. I suppose if I deal with tough weather in Maine and NH, I'll have a little extra distance to make up time. That could be a factor, again, we'll just have to wait and see. http://www.karlmeltzer.com

[warren doyle]

A good thread to read.

NOBO or SOBO: it makes no difference to the former and present AT record holders.

What does make a difference is that the record-attempter conscientiously and honorably follows the white blazes the entire way regardless of the weather conditions.

[JAK]

Don't let them mule you Karl, in this forum, or any other. :D

[Yukon]

Sweeeet, hope he breaks the record!

[warraghiyagey]

Enjoy your hike Karl.:sun:sun

[Lone Wolf]

A SOBO speed attempt enables one to get that first 400 miles out of the way while one is still fresh and not beat up physically. Both Horton and Maineak were wrecks when they got to the Whites. Pete Palmer was originally going to go SOBO but changed his mind because he wanted to break the NOBO record Horton set. I feel the SOBO record will be smashed.

[JAK]

How lean are these guys Lone Wolf, in their top form?
How much more meat than a marathon runner would you say?
More comparable to a triathlete, in terms of muscle mass and body fat?
How about age?

[warren doyle]

I will offer a respectful difference of opinion with Lone Wolf.

I do not think the present AT endurance record (held by Andrew Thompson) will be 'smashed'.

Lone Wolf, define the parameters as to what time will be needed for you to think the record was 'smashed' (i.e., 45 days? 44 days?). Then I'll be willing to make a friendly bet with you with the 'winner' of the bet receiving a $10 shopping spree from the 'loser' at the Damascus Dollar Store.

[Lone Wolf]

How lean are these guys Lone Wolf, in their top form?
How much more meat than a marathon runner would you say?
More comparable to a triathlete, in terms of muscle mass and body fat?
How about age?

Horton, Palmer and Thompson are all lean ultramarathoners.

[Lone Wolf]

I will offer a respectful difference of opinion with Lone Wolf.

I do not think the present AT endurance record (held by Andrew Thompson) will be 'smashed'.

Lone Wolf, define the parameters as to what time will be needed for you to think the record was 'smashed' (i.e., 45 days? 44 days?). Then I'll be willing to make a friendly bet with you with the 'winner' of the bet receiving a $10 shopping spree from the 'loser' at the Damascus Dollar Store.

43 or below. the bet's on :D

[warren doyle]

You bet Lone Wolf!

Now I can start daydreaming about what I can buy at the store in late August with your $10.

A 4-pack of Rip-it for sure and perhaps a passel of Little Debbies.

[Lone Wolf]

Rip-it? :-? this stuff? http://www.ripitenergy.com/

[Almost There]

You know I gotta ask it, because I am an ass:rolleyes:, but in order to break the record does he have to ford the Kennebec?:D Sorry, but I couldn't help myself, there is a part of me that is genuinely interested in the answer.

Warren, feel free to chime in, I think I killed the dog with you on this one long ago, I really am not looking to go around about it again, just curious as to real thoughts.

[dessertrat]

43 or below. the bet's on :D

Is that "under 43 days" or will up to 43 days, 23 hours and something do it?

[Allen66]

So, the mountains are shorter if you hike south?

[Blue Jay]

So, the mountains are shorter if you hike south?

Yes and people are better looking and the whiskey is stronger.

[scavenger]

Good luck Karl! Maybe I'll see you go shooting by as I hike northbound.

[jersey joe]

Good luck with your attempt Karl! I agree with wolf, the record will be broken by days, not hours. I recall reading about how Thompson used Palmer's schedule, even followed it to a degree. Will you do likewise? Have you consulted either of them at all?

[TOW]

This guy has the resume to take his attempt seriously.
====
Beginning August 5th on the summit of Mt. Kathadin I will begin my quest to run to Georgia faster than anyone else has. Andrew Thompson currently holds the record of 47 days and change. A stiff record that will be tough to challenge. GPS tracking and daily updates will give the world a chance to watch a goat run through the woods…all day long! Any takers or supporters out there? I welcome any assistance, but will NOT be muled in any form. To leave a comment click on the comments above right. -Speedgoat Karl

http://karlmeltzer.com/
I'm sorry to inform you but Wild Cowboy will already be finished and Karl will have to run at least 89 miles a day to beat his record.......

[warren doyle]

Lone Wolf - Rip-it - yes you got it right.

As to fording the Kennebec or taking the canoe ferry, it doesn't matter to me concerning the record - as long as the white blazes are followed the entire way and no short cuts or bad weather routes are taken.

Personally, I would hope he would ford it as I would hope other hikers would when it is safe to ford.

[Appalachian Tater]

This guy has the resume to take his attempt seriously.
====
Beginning August 5th on the summit of Mt. Kathadin I will begin my quest to run to Georgia faster than anyone else has. Andrew Thompson currently holds the record of 47 days and change. A stiff record that will be tough to challenge. GPS tracking and daily updates will give the world a chance to watch a goat run through the woods…all day long! Any takers or supporters out there? I welcome any assistance, but will NOT be muled in any form. To leave a comment click on the comments above right. -Speedgoat Karl

http://karlmeltzer.com/

WildCowboy is doing it in 30 days, this guy should try for 29 or he'll just be wasting his time if he's trying to set some kind of "record".

[Appalachian Tater]

Lone Wolf - Rip-it - yes you got it right.

As to fording the Kennebec or taking the canoe ferry, it doesn't matter to me concerning the record - as long as the white blazes are followed the entire way and no short cuts or bad weather routes are taken.

Personally, I would hope he would ford it as I would hope other hikers would when it is safe to ford.

The canoe is the official route. Anyone fording is a blue-blazer and anyone who fords and claims to be a pure white-blazer is a liar.

[Lone Wolf]

s t f u sweetie :rolleyes:

[Skidsteer]

The canoe is the official route. Anyone fording is a blue-blazer and anyone who fords and claims to be a pure white-blazer is a liar.

Aw geeezz.

Give it a rest.

[Tin Man]

Perhaps one of the veteran forders could pass along the Kenebec fording tips to simplify the effort and save time. If I recall correctly, this involves going early in the day and head upstream to find shallower water. I would imagine he has forded other places and may not need mechanical instructions, but time of day and location are key local knowledge elements to be aware of.

[Almost There]

Guys, I was just asking opinions because well, Warren and I have had fun in the past with the whole fording thing. That being said I was actually curious about said thoughts and no let's not turn this into a fording thread, it's about someone trying to accomplish something and I am curious as to Karl's plan, so what say you Karl...to ford or not to ford?

[Tin Man]

LW, How did Andrew Thompson do the Kenebec?

[Lone Wolf]

LW, How did Andrew Thompson do the Kenebec?

i have no idea

[Tin Man]

i have no idea

Oops. Thought you were on his support team. My mistake. How about any of the others you have helped?

[The Old Fhart]

If this was a thread about crossing the Kennebec then we could argue this for several more pages but it is, or should be, about Karl Meltzer's attempted thru-hike.

Interestingly, and paradoxically, if you follow Warren's suggestion that every white blaze be passed, then the canoe would have to be the way to go. :-?

[Lone Wolf]

Oops. Thought you were on his support team. My mistake. How about any of the others you have helped?

i was with him on his first attempt when he quit in vermont. when i was supporting maineak he arrived at the kennebec late afternoon and took the canoe paddled by WB member wolf23000. we camped on the river that night. the next morning maineak forded south then back north. he wanted his feet to touch ground the whole way.

[Tin Man]

If this was a thread about crossing the Kennebec then we could argue this for several more pages but it is, or should be, about Karl Meltzer's attempted thru-hike.

Interestingly, and paradoxically, if you follow Warren's suggestion that every white blaze be passed, then the canoe would have to be the way to go. :-?

I agree it is about Meltzer's attempt. Understanding how to deal with obstacles like the Kennebec is important. He can ford and still pass every white blaze. All he needs to do is wave at the canoe as he speeds on by.

[Lone Wolf]

he can push/pull the canoe across in the early morning

[Almost There]

Yes, and when I asked the question again, it was for Meltzer to answer what his plans are...again I am just curious.

[Speedgoat Karl]

To be completely honest with all of you, what is accepted is what I'll do...if that makes any sense. If I must ford the river, I will ,but only if it is safe. The danger aspect is not really something I am interested in. Honestly, the canoe sounds better, but I'll find out what Andrew and others have done before I make the true decision. Did I answer the question? not really, but plan to have an answer real soon. I'll get back. Speedgoat Karl http://www.karlmeltzer.com

[Almost There]

Thanks Karl, that's completely fair, to be honest, I am hiking that section next summer and won't decide what I am going to do until I get to the river. Regardless, Good Luck with your attempt.

[Appalachian Tater]

To be completely honest with all of you, what is accepted is what I'll do...if that makes any sense. If I must ford the river, I will ,but only if it is safe. The danger aspect is not really something I am interested in. Honestly, the canoe sounds better, but I'll find out what Andrew and others have done before I make the true decision. Did I answer the question? not really, but plan to have an answer real soon. I'll get back. Speedgoat Karl http://www.karlmeltzer.com

Are you planning on fording the Hudson or taking the bridge?

[ScottP]

No one will look down on you for fording or for taking the canoe. Do which ever you want to.

It's good to see a serious attempt at the AT record this year. Last year Tatu Jo broke the unsupported PCT record, and he's going to attempt to re-break it again this year. Should be another interesting year for long distance hiking/running/etc.

[dessertrat]

i was with him on his first attempt when he quit in vermont. when i was supporting maineak he arrived at the kennebec late afternoon and took the canoe paddled by WB member wolf23000. we camped on the river that night. the next morning maineak forded south then back north. he wanted his feet to touch ground the whole way.

That's what you call a man and a free thinker. I think I would like that guy.

[ed bell]

Are you planning on fording the Hudson or taking the bridge?WWATD?:rolleyes:

[Tin Man]

To be completely honest with all of you, what is accepted is what I'll do...if that makes any sense. If I must ford the river, I will ,but only if it is safe. The danger aspect is not really something I am interested in. Honestly, the canoe sounds better, but I'll find out what Andrew and others have done before I make the true decision. Did I answer the question? not really, but plan to have an answer real soon. I'll get back. Speedgoat Karl http://www.karlmeltzer.com

Keep in mind the canoe has limited hours, which I believe are 9-11am and 2-4pm at the time of year you are going. This may (or may not) change this year, because a new ferry man will be taking over.

[Lone Wolf]

i'm sure between now and the time he leaves katahdin he can arrange to have someone there with a canoe to take him across. it doesn't have to be the "official" AT ferryman

[nitewalker]

i'm sure between now and the time he leaves katahdin he can arrange to have someone there with a canoe to take him across. it doesn't have to be the "official" AT ferryman


i was geting ready to ask about the ferryman.. for some reason i thought he was going to quit being the ferryman or is there already a new person called the ferryman?? how would sgt rock cross the kenebec, hes too short?:D

[Lone Wolf]

i was geting ready to ask about the ferryman.. for some reason i thought he was going to quit being the ferryman or is there already a new person called the ferryman?? how would sgt rock cross the kenebec, hes too short?:D

by the time rock gets there he'll be walkin' tall and won't need no weenie canoe. he'll probably ford no matter what. he's a leader, not a sheeple

[nitewalker]

by the time rock gets there he'll be walkin' tall and won't need no weenie canoe. he'll probably ford no matter what. he's a leader, not a sheeple


if you really think about it, the AT was there before the ferryman so the true way to hike the AT would be to ford the river. the river was always there where as the ferryman came later and he is a tool of assistance for crossing..if you use the ferryman it would be a supported hike because you plan on using him to cross. if you ford the river its an unsupported hike..

does that sound about rite:-??

[Tin Man]

i'm sure between now and the time he leaves katahdin he can arrange to have someone there with a canoe to take him across. it doesn't have to be the "official" AT ferryman

Not to nitpick, but isn't the schedule based on normal release hours? Anyway, my point was the Kennebec crossing takes a little planning and scheduling to avoid delays.

[Appalachian Tater]

if you really think about it, the AT was there before the ferryman so the true way to hike the AT would be to ford the river. the river was always there where as the ferryman came later and he is a tool of assistance for crossing..if you use the ferryman it would be a supported hike because you plan on using him to cross. if you ford the river its an unsupported hike..

does that sound about rite:-??

If you cross the Hudson on the bridge, it's a supported hike because untold number of man-hours went into its construction. Go upriver and ford, or swim it.

[Lone Wolf]

if you really think about it, the AT was there before the ferryman so the true way to hike the AT would be to ford the river. the river was always there where as the ferryman came later and he is a tool of assistance for crossing..if you use the ferryman it would be a supported hike because you plan on using him to cross. if you ford the river its an unsupported hike..

does that sound about rite:-??

sure. and the fording/not fording issue only matters to the anal, packsniffin' patch wearers. since there is no "official" AT record it don't matter how Karl will get across. the extreme few that attempt these records know the deal. when you get to the river, you cross. on foot or in canoe. period

[Lone Wolf]

Not to nitpick, but isn't the schedule based on normal release hours? Anyway, my point was the Kennebec crossing takes a little planning and scheduling to avoid delays.

i don't know how it's based. but if Karl gets to river and there ain't an "official" canoe dude there, he ain't waitin'. he'll ford or have his own canoe guy. no biggie

[nitewalker]

i myself could care less about how one gets across. i was basically just asking a question and looking for an answer about what way would be the correct way. some people hqave different views on the subject. l wolf i always hear you saying the way is to ford and not ferry. so on a peed attempt is it different than a traditional thru?

tater you got me on the hudson bridge!!!

[Tin Man]

i don't know how it's based. but if Karl gets to river and there ain't an "official" canoe dude there, he ain't waitin'. he'll ford or have his own canoe guy. no biggie

One last question and I will go away. And this is more for Karl's benefit in case he is not already aware. From previous discussions, the Kennebec is probably safe to ford before the damn release upstream, say before 9am. Go upstream until you see the rock/gravel bar and cross there. Is the canoe safe during high water when the dam release flow is at a maximum, which I believe is around mid-day?

[Lone Wolf]

i myself could care less about how one gets across. i was basically just asking a question and looking for an answer about what way would be the correct way. some people hqave different views on the subject. l wolf i always hear you saying the way is to ford and not ferry. so on a peed attempt is it different than a traditional thru?

tater you got me on the hudson bridge!!!

it's very simple. when a speed hike attempter gets to the river, he/she crosses it either by foot or canoe. one isn't going to wait for hours till the canoe guy gets there.

the hudson has a bridge open 24 hours
the kennebec has a canoe for 4 hours

only weenies like Tater wait on canoes

[nitewalker]

One last question and I will go away. And this is more for Karl's benefit in case he is not already aware. From previous discussions, the Kennebec is probably safe to ford before the damn release upstream, say before 9am. Go upstream until you see the rock/gravel bar and cross there. Is the canoe safe during high water when the dam release flow is at a maximum, which I believe is around mid-day?


i never realized there was so much thought into fording the kennebec. there are different areas one can select to ford. is it different from yr to yr for the spots to ford..like more upstream/downstream??

[nitewalker]

i would prefer to ford the K it seems like a good experience.. i do enough canoing around here..

[Heater]

It will be interesting to follow his progress along with Jennifer Pharr's sobo attempt at the unsupported women's AT endurance record (i.e., 93 days).

Is she attempting this in 08?

Does she have a website?

[Lone Wolf]

i never realized there was so much thought into fording the kennebec. there are different areas one can select to ford. is it different from yr to yr for the spots to ford..like more upstream/downstream??

not much thought. you ford upstream. every year

[The Old Fhart]

Lone Wolf-"not much thought. you ford upstream. every year"...but if you want to do it the traditional way, like almost every early thru-hiker from day one-take the ferry. In Karl's case, I say who cares.

[Heater]

what a crock o' *hit :D

I think that with this time frame, you could plan NOBO or SOBO and there would not be a advantange either way.

I am just happy that there is a REAL attempt at this to watch. :D

(step aside cowboy) :D:D:D

[Tin Man]

Karl has undoubtedly heard about the AT's hardest mile, Mahoosuc Notch. Any thoughts on how long it will take an endurance hiker traveling light to traverse?

[Lone Wolf]

about 20 minutes

[Heater]

yeah and yeah. i'm a cyberhiker

Soon to be packsniffer?

[warren doyle]

Is she attempting this in 08?

Does she have a website?

Jennifer's attempt at the unsupported women's AT record will be in 2008.

As of now, she has no website.

[dessertrat]

i don't know how it's based. but if Karl gets to river and there ain't an "official" canoe dude there, he ain't waitin'. he'll ford or have his own canoe guy. no biggie

Without a pack, swimming it becomes a lot more viable anyway.

[Heater]

You know I gotta ask it, because I am an ass:rolleyes:, but in order to break the record does he have to ford the Kennebec?:D Sorry, but I couldn't help myself, there is a part of me that is genuinely interested in the answer.

Warren, feel free to chime in, I think I killed the dog with you on this one long ago, I really am not looking to go around about it again, just curious as to real thoughts.

Actually, that is a pretty important distinction when considering whether or not one has hiked the ENTIRE trail.

Good catch! :cool:

[Heater]

Lone Wolf - Rip-it - yes you got it right.

As to fording the Kennebec or taking the canoe ferry, it doesn't matter to me concerning the record - as long as the white blazes are followed the entire way and no short cuts or bad weather routes are taken.

Personally, I would hope he would ford it as I would hope other hikers would when it is safe to ford.

Oh...... OK

Nevermind.

[Heater]

Aw geeezz.

Give it a rest.


Hmmmmm. :-? Is the whiteblaze in the boats sanctioned?

[warren doyle]

I believe the canoe is privately owned and not designated as part of the NPS trail corridor (or whether canoes are even mentioned in the National Trails System Act). I believe the canoe ferry is there for the safety and convenience of the hiker. I am also sure that institutional (i.e., MATC, ATC, NPS) liability concerns (post 1985) played a part in its implementation and in its continued operation.

I did four thru-hikes in the span of years (1973-1980) and walked through Maine a few more times from 1981-1985. Based on my observations, the majority of thru-hikers during this period forded the Kennebec. They consider this ford as part of their 'challenging' AT experience as much as doing the 'Jump-Up' just north of Wesser, crossing the Cumberland Valley in the heat of the summer, descending down Beaver Brook Falls Trail, crossing the exposed sections of Franconia Ridge/Presidentials, traversing the Mahoosucs, and ascending/descending Katahdin.

Most NPS published AT material states the AT is a public footpath.

At least for this individual, it is very important that I walk under my own leg/foot power the entire Appalachian Trail.

I have forded the Kennebec many times since my first ford in 1973. I consider it one of the highlights of my AT experience. It will be bittersweet when I ford it for my last time but, none the less, when I reach the other side, I will turn around, salute it, and shout "Thank you!"

It is also very important to me that I, and neither the government nor others with their own levels of comfort/fear, determine what is or is not safe for me. (I'm not a follower of the Bureau of Homeland Insecurity.)

For many hikers, walking the entire AT under their own foot/leg power is not that important. So they have the canoe ferry as an option.

It is each individual's choice - the safe choice (when river conditions are safe) or the safer choice (canoe ferry). Make the choice that feels right for you.

I cannot join in the 'demonization' of the Kennebec River. I do not feel threatened by it. It will not harm me if I show it proper respect. It has given me its flowing strength throughout the last 34 years. It is my friend, not my foe. Even now, looking at this monitor, I can feel its cool waters caressing my legs as the early morning mist rises from its surface.
And this makes me smile.

[Alligator]

How about folks don't ruin Karl's thread with the googolth thread on fording the Kennebec.

[max patch]

How about folks don't ruin Karl's thread with the googolth thread on fording the Kennebec.

When I started this thread I should have put it in Straight Forward.

[Alligator]

When I started this thread I should have put it in Straight Forward.Maybe. Then again, seeing that Karl has joined the discussion, it's interesting to be able to discuss his plans with him.

[jersey joe]

Here is a question for Karl, maybe also wolf or someone else who has helped "crew" a long distance hike attempt before...
How could someone like me help crew Karl if I were interested?
Are all of your nights taken care of? Meaning do you have an RV or something following you the whole way? Do you need or even want people to run with you for company(not for muling)?

[Lone Wolf]

go to his website and ask. every hiker/runner is different

[jersey joe]

I was asking here since I saw he was frequently posting in this thread.

[Lone Wolf]

oh, ok. i'll let him answer

[Red Hat]

Karl, I'll try not to blink when you fly by me... (I'm starting SOBO on July 1). Just wave at the old lady dressed in purple and red. I'm pulling for you!

[Speedgoat Karl]

Ok I guess I'll answer, As far as crewing and helping out, I would be honored to have help along the way, I do have Matt Hart (an accomplished Ultrarunner himself) running all of Maine with me, just to have a companion deep in the woods. Matt is from NH originally and is gonna run home! I will have people running/hiking with me for some sections of it, but really I like to run alone and most of it will be alone. Remember the "Clean the AT" project is in the works and a little help with that would be awesome! I really want to do something for all of you on the east coast as I am from there originally. The whole idea of cleaning the AT (at least part of it) is almost as intriguing to me as just trying to break a record. No matter how fast I do it, I'll at least leave my footprint behind. All the advice you all have given me is awesome, I appreciate it greatly. Just keep tuned at http://www.karlmeltzer.com and as the days go by I'll constantly have info on what's going on. I'm goin' runnin' -Speedgoat Karl

[Mags]

Good luck Karl. Seems like you are going to have a wonderful journey whether you break the record or not. Cool about doing a trash pickup as well.

[The Solemates]

Ok I guess I'll answer, As far as crewing and helping out, I would be honored to have help along the way, I do have Matt Hart (an accomplished Ultrarunner himself) running all of Maine with me, just to have a companion deep in the woods. Matt is from NH originally and is gonna run home! I will have people running/hiking with me for some sections of it, but really I like to run alone and most of it will be alone. Remember the "Clean the AT" project is in the works and a little help with that would be awesome! I really want to do something for all of you on the east coast as I am from there originally. The whole idea of cleaning the AT (at least part of it) is almost as intriguing to me as just trying to break a record. No matter how fast I do it, I'll at least leave my footprint behind. All the advice you all have given me is awesome, I appreciate it greatly. Just keep tuned at http://www.karlmeltzer.com and as the days go by I'll constantly have info on what's going on. I'm goin' runnin' -Speedgoat Karl


I really dont see how picking up trash is not going to slow you down drastically. What are your plans for this trash deal?

[Marta]

I really dont see how picking up trash is not going to slow you down drastically. What are your plans for this trash deal?

I think the plan is that his support crews along the way will pick up trash.

[Speedgoat Karl]

Support crews pick up the trash, or really anyone who wants to do a good thing that day, see a hammered ultrarunner try and run 2175 miles as quick as possible, maybe help crew him and spend 20 minutes while hanging around just picking up a little garbage, shouldn't be that hard while hanging around waiting. Give everyone who loves hiking the AT a good reason to go to a certain place. The bottom line is, it's hard to set people up to pick up garbage, noone really wants to do that, but it's a good way to show awareness. We know it's not the hikers of the trail that leave all the garbage, but it's horrible to see it. Speedgoat Karl http://www.karlmeltzer.com

[longwe tru]

Karl...I hope I meet you on the trail...it will be momentous and historical...and I hope I am not taking a zero day...or in the privy...perhaps the trail grapevine and the high tech gps tracking system will keep me in the know... to know when you will be passing. Good luck.

Class of 2008 NOBO

[Nightwalker]

If you cross the Hudson on the bridge, it's a supported hike because untold number of man-hours went into its construction. Go upriver and ford, or swim it.

As time goes by, you become more and more irrelevant. Go harass a dog or something. :rolleyes:

[Pedaling Fool]

Irrelevant is a good description.

[mudhead]

Candy or bar of choice?

In the twillies...

[ferryman]

Listen to a resident of Virginia (about a 1,000 miles from the Kennebec River) like LW and you"ll be pushing daisies alongside the Kennebec River! Thunder Rebel

[Lone Wolf]

Listen to a resident of Virginia (about a 1,000 miles from the Kennebec River) like LW and you"ll be pushing daisies alongside the Kennebec River! Thunder Rebel

1000 miles from Damascus puts one just north of Hanover, NH. i've never seen daisies growing next to the kennebec. i've pushed a few rocks alongside it though

[warraghiyagey]

Listen to a resident of Virginia (about a 1,000 miles from the Kennebec River) like LW and you"ll be pushing daisies alongside the Kennebec River! Thunder Rebel


1000 miles from Damascus puts one just north of Hanover, NH. Is pushing daisies some wierd gay games thing y'all do? :-?
http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/ad/starwars.gif

[A-Train]

1000 miles from Damascus puts one just north of Hanover, NH. Is pushing daisies some wierd gay games thing y'all do? :-?

458+1000=1458. Doesn't that put you in Connectiuct somewhere?

Pushing Daisies means your dead...

[gungho]

Listen to a resident of Virginia (about a 1,000 miles from the Kennebec River) like LW and you"ll be pushing daisies alongside the Kennebec River! Thunder Rebel
Alright Randy put down your red rider BB gun and step away:D

[Lone Wolf]

458+1000=1458. Doesn't that put you in Connectiuct somewhere?

Pushing Daisies means your dead...

i guess? fairyman is the one tellin' the story :)

[RITBlake]

I believe the canoe is privately owned and not designated as part of the NPS trail corridor (or whether canoes are even mentioned in the National Trails System Act). I believe the canoe ferry is there for the safety and convenience of the hiker. I am also sure that institutional (i.e., MATC, ATC, NPS) liability concerns (post 1985) played a part in its implementation and in its continued operation.

I did four thru-hikes in the span of years (1973-1980) and walked through Maine a few more times from 1981-1985. Based on my observations, the majority of thru-hikers during this period forded the Kennebec. They consider this ford as part of their 'challenging' AT experience as much as doing the 'Jump-Up' just north of Wesser, crossing the Cumberland Valley in the heat of the summer, descending down Beaver Brook Falls Trail, crossing the exposed sections of Franconia Ridge/Presidentials, traversing the Mahoosucs, and ascending/descending Katahdin.

Most NPS published AT material states the AT is a public footpath.

At least for this individual, it is very important that I walk under my own leg/foot power the entire Appalachian Trail.

I have forded the Kennebec many times since my first ford in 1973. I consider it one of the highlights of my AT experience. It will be bittersweet when I ford it for my last time but, none the less, when I reach the other side, I will turn around, salute it, and shout "Thank you!"

It is also very important to me that I, and neither the government nor others with their own levels of comfort/fear, determine what is or is not safe for me. (I'm not a follower of the Bureau of Homeland Insecurity.)

For many hikers, walking the entire AT under their own foot/leg power is not that important. So they have the canoe ferry as an option.

It is each individual's choice - the safe choice (when river conditions are safe) or the safer choice (canoe ferry). Make the choice that feels right for you.

I cannot join in the 'demonization' of the Kennebec River. I do not feel threatened by it. It will not harm me if I show it proper respect. It has given me its flowing strength throughout the last 34 years. It is my friend, not my foe. Even now, looking at this monitor, I can feel its cool waters caressing my legs as the early morning mist rises from its surface.
And this makes me smile.

What a long winded way of saying I ford, I do not take the canoe.

[ferryman]

Karl, I want to wish you the best in your plans for hiking the trail in 2008. The Kennebec River Ferry Service has been part of every successful speed hike except for Andy Thompson, who happened upon some local river runners that gave him a canoe ride across. Andy was hiking last summer with a friend thru the state of Maine and upon arriving to the Kennebec, starting into a ford only to be turned back by a surge of river that was three feet higher than when he started. This idea that anyone can arrive at the Kennebec at anytime and start tromping across is nothing short of foolish. But then again, to each their own. The new ferryman, whoever that may be, is not at the Kennebec to judge anyone, only to provide safe passage to those who desire it. Go For It! Karl, we'll be rooting for you! Steve PS So it's not 1,000 miles to Virginia (maybe as the crow flies) but what do you expect from someone who never leaves Maine. Someone's got to stick around to water all the daisies by the river!

[Lone Wolf]

This idea that anyone can arrive at the Kennebec at anytime and start tromping across is nothing short of foolish.

NOBODY on this website has "this idea". tromping across early in the morning is safe and fun. try it some time.

[warren doyle]

Before 1987, there were a few successful AT endurance records set without using a ferry to ford the Kennebec (myself w/ backpack included - 1973).

[Speedgoat Karl]

Thanks for the good words Ferryman, all the info I have recieved on this thread has been great. Will I take the Ferry? It's highly likely, or I'll have one set up myself. -Speedgoat Karl Karlmeltzer.com

[Symbol]

Good luck with your attempt, Karl.

I hope to see you running by while in ME.

[Darryl G]

Personally I think SOBO is preferable for this type of endeavor. In general, heading SOBO you ascend the steeper grade of the mountain and descend the more gently graded slope. It's just easier on the knees and less dangerous.

[Rambler]

http://www.whereskarl.com/

[Lone Wolf]

i wish him well

[Phreak]

I'm looking forward to following his progress.

[wilconow]

cool.. there's RSS feeds. http://www.whereskarl.com/?q=rss.xml

[Woodstock 07]

What ever happened to Wild Cowboys 30 day attempt?

[SteveJ]

got a new sleeping bag from S&C today (whoo-whoo - 0 deg down BA bag and mat for $135!). Had a whereskarl.com sticker in the order. I thought that was kinda interesting.....

[Tin Man]

What ever happened to Wild Cowboys 30 day attempt?

He went GAME then MEGA and finished his yo-yo in 69.

[rafe]

got a new sleeping bag from S&C today (whoo-whoo - 0 deg down BA bag and mat for $135!). Had a whereskarl.com sticker in the order. I thought that was kinda interesting.....

Strictly from commercial. :rolleyes: Way too slick for me. 1800 hits on a google search for "whereskarl" (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=whereskarl&btnG=Google+Search). Karl's ego is as huge as the trail is long.

[rickb]

Does anyone know if there if he has any target dates posted for various places down the trail, to stay on plan?

For example, When does he "need" to be on the top of Mount Washington?

Go Karl!

[jersey joe]

Only one day away...go Karl!

[jersey joe]

I thought he was starting Aug 1...it is Aug5...so, 5 days left...go Karl!

[max patch]

uh oh...

Look what Karls using to learn more about the trail....

http://www.whereskarl.com/

It's hard to believe that Karl's out there right now, on a heartland highway outside of Lincoln, Neb., heading east to Maine in the Where's Karl? RV. He left Salt Lake yesterday morning with a ready rig, food for the road, and A Walk in the Woods by Bill Bryson loaded on his iPod. (Karl and his entire crew are reading or listening to this right now, so we all have a better understanding of the story and the history of the AT.)

[Lone Wolf]

Strictly from commercial. :rolleyes: Way too slick for me. 1800 hits on a google search for "whereskarl" (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=whereskarl&btnG=Google+Search). Karl's ego is as huge as the trail is long.

it takes :rolleyes: a big :rolleyes: ego to attempt :rolleyes: a 47 day traverse of the AT :rolleyes:

[Tin Man]

it takes :rolleyes: a big :rolleyes: ego to attempt :rolleyes: a 47 day traverse of the AT :rolleyes:

he be jealous that someone beat his record - 1990-2007 :rolleyes:

[jersey joe]

uh oh...

Look what Karls using to learn more about the trail....

http://www.whereskarl.com/

It's hard to believe that Karl's out there right now, on a heartland highway outside of Lincoln, Neb., heading east to Maine in the Where's Karl? RV. He left Salt Lake yesterday morning with a ready rig, food for the road, and A Walk in the Woods by Bill Bryson loaded on his iPod. (Karl and his entire crew are reading or listening to this right now, so we all have a better understanding of the story and the history of the AT.)
Between the humorous lines about tossing gear, Bryson does do an OK job of giving some historical and useful information about the trail.

[the goat]

he be jealous that someone beat his record - 1990-2007 :rolleyes:

lmao!:D

[Tin Man]

lmao!:D

you a member of the fan club?

Go Karl, beat terrapin!

[Tin Man]

Between the humorous lines about tossing gear, Bryson does do an OK job of giving some historical and useful information about the trail.

maybe, but bryson missed a few miles.

the book is entertaining, more history and miles in other AT books.

[Sly]

maybe, but bryson missed a few miles.



So what, Bryson probably hiked more than most that attempt the AT. That he made millions off his adventure, and from what I understand, didn't give anything back (besides the publicity) is more disturbing.

[Pedaling Fool]

Strictly from commercial. :rolleyes: Way too slick for me. 1800 hits on a google search for "whereskarl" (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=whereskarl&btnG=Google+Search). Karl's ego is as huge as the trail is long.

To quote Hannibal Lechter, "Look deep inside your self." ;)

[Tin Man]

So what, Bryson probably hiked more than most that attempt the AT. That he made millions off his adventure, and from what I understand, didn't give anything back (besides the publicity) is more disturbing.

I agree. I was commenting within the context that Karl is planning to do the whole trail.

[warren doyle]

I still give Karl a 20% chance of breaking the AT endurance record.

Reasons:

1) He is primarily an utrarunner with very little experience on the type of footway he will encounter in NH/ME.

2) I am presently in Andover, ME and he will start out in wet trail conditions.

3) Too much pre-hike publicity/techno trappings make it sound like a party-like atmosphere around it.

[Lone Wolf]

I still give Karl a 20% chance of breaking the AT endurance record.

Reasons:

1) He is primarily an utrarunner with very little experience on the type of footway he will encounter in NH/ME.

2) I am presently in Andover, ME and he will start out in wet trail conditions.

3) Too much pre-hike publicity/techno trappings make it sound like a party-like atmosphere around it.

plus all his days end at a road. not good. he and his crew need to learn to camp in the woods.

[Tin Man]

I was going to give him better odds until I heard he was reading bryson to bone up on trail history. It is an entertaining read, but please...

I agree with Warren. The AT ain't typical ultra-marathoning. A practice trip or six would have greatly improved his chances.

[fiddlehead]

Ahh, the tide is turning!
Getting close to crunch time.

Does he have no experience with east coast steep trail-builders design traits?

I can't imagine he is having that much hype without having done some AT hiking.
That WOULD change my opinion too.

But i wish him luck. Especially weather wise in the first 2 weeks.

[jersey joe]

plus all his days end at a road. not good. he and his crew need to learn to camp in the woods.
Why would this be a disadvantage?

[fiddlehead]

Has anyone ever seen his eyes?
He certainly won't need those streamlined, high tech sunglasses on this trail.

[fiddlehead]

Why would this be a disadvantage?

IMO if you have everything you need with you to camp, you can walk until you are totally exhausted and then just lay down and sleep. But if you have to make a decision hours before, you will most likely misjudge sometimes.

It's not easy making those decisions when you are that tired. That's why you have a crew to help you.

i remember talking to Ed Kostak about one of his speed attempts. He told me that he had to have his crew help him across roads because he couldn't trust himself to tell if there were cars too close /or to tell if he could make it across before they got there.

The mind plays some amazing tricks on you when you are in sleep dep mode.

[Sly]

I agree. I was commenting within the context that Karl is planning to do the whole trail.

OK, I'm a little slow today. :o

[Hoop Time]

My understanding is that he has done some running on the AT, but I could not tell you how much.

But this guy runs 100-milers in the mountains out west. I don't think familiarity with the terrain is going to be the problem. He runs mountain trails all the time.

What is unknown is how he will hold up physically to 40+ days in a row of running 50+ miles. Most runners take at least one rest day each week when training and vary their training runs in terms of distance, intensity, etc. That helps avoid injuries.

Running that kind of mileage and over the AT terrain for that many days straight would seem to be a recipe for injury. A simple muscle pull or sprained ankle is all it will take to derail the effort.

[fiddlehead]

I've done some ultra running out west.
Never saw any trail quite like the steepness and rocky-ness like the whites and parts of Maine though.
He won't be doing many 50 mile days between Stratton, ME and Glencliff NH IMO

[Hoop Time]

Another potential stumbling block.

From another thread here:


FYI, the latest info we have is that the AT crossing over I-81 on Bernheisel Bridge Rd. will be closed to hikers as of about August 11, and continue for about a ten day period. Work has begun on the overpass, but the contractor has left a lane for AT hikers to cross until paving begins. As Laurie's earlier post indicates, there will be a shuttle for AT hikers during the time that the overpass is closed to hikers for paving. If you have questions, you can either contact ATC's mid-Atlantic office in Boiling Springs, PA at (717) 258-5771 or [email protected] ([email protected]); or Cumberland Valley Appalachian Trail Club at http://www.geocities.com/cvatclub/ (http://www.geocities.com/cvatclub/) or [email protected] ([email protected])

PennDOT is not all that dependable when it comes to timelines. If this project starts later a few days, or takes longer than expected, it could pose a problem.

His itinerary puts him in that area around Aug. 27, if my figuring is correct. The detour on foot is not that many extra miles, especially for someone running those sorts of distances.

But what would the ruling be on following the white blazes if he has to take an unmarked detour. And how would folks feel about him riding a shuttle around that stretch.

I'm thinking either way, its a pretty small detour. In fact that shuttle might just take him from one end of the overpass to the other, which I suppose would make very little difference. He'd only be "skipping" less than 100 yards.

But what if he gets thee during a time the shuttle is not running? Is it OK for his crew to shuttle him around the work site?

[Kerosene]

But what if he gets thee during a time the shuttle is not running?I vote that he play "Frogger" and dodge 4 lanes of high-speed traffic to get to the other side. :banana

[saimyoji]

I vote that he play "Frogger" and dodge 4 lanes of high-speed traffic to get to the other side. :banana

just like george castanza

[Hoop Time]

I vote that he play "Frogger" and dodge 4 lanes of high-speed traffic to get to the other side.

Don't encourage that. It would be just my luck he'd get splattered while I am working and I'd have to go cover the damned mess.

I don't need the extra work *L*

[jersey joe]

IMO if you have everything you need with you to camp, you can walk until you are totally exhausted and then just lay down and sleep. But if you have to make a decision hours before, you will most likely misjudge sometimes.

It's not easy making those decisions when you are that tired. That's why you have a crew to help you.

i remember talking to Ed Kostak about one of his speed attempts. He told me that he had to have his crew help him across roads because he couldn't trust himself to tell if there were cars too close /or to tell if he could make it across before they got there.

The mind plays some amazing tricks on you when you are in sleep dep mode.
I understand that you wouldnt think quite as clearly, but I still don't see why only stopping at roads would be a disadvantage to breaking the record.
Sure there might be days when you could have gone further but there will also be days when you want to stop before the road and getting to the road will push you further.

[Tin Man]

I vote that he play "Frogger" and dodge 4 lanes of high-speed traffic to get to the other side. :banana

Don't forget the Palisades Parkway. Timing there will be interesting.

[Tin Man]

Any records kept on doing the Notch?

[Lone Wolf]

Any records kept on doing the Notch?

i've done it 40 minutes with a full pack

[Tin Man]

i've done it 40 minutes with a full pack

:cool:

Anyone camp-out in the notch... on purpose...and planned?

[fiddlehead]

There's a great campsite on the north end.

I see that Karl is in NH and almost at the Maine border in his supply van.
He has that spot messenger and you can see where he is every hour or so.

I did the notch once in 50 minutes. Good fun.

[Lone Wolf]

:cool:

Anyone camp-out in the notch... on purpose...and planned?

yeah. twice. north end

[Tin Man]

yeah. twice. north end

thanks Fiddlehead and LW, that will be on the agenda next year

[rafe]

There's a great campsite on the north end.

Ayup, stayed there, enjoyed it. Wasn't sure it was "legal" but it was perfect and nobody bothered us.

[Tin Man]

The Karl mobile is on the move...

http://www.whereskarl.com/goingonvan.php

[warren doyle]

Just did most of the Mahoosucs yesterday - Grafton Notch to Gentian Pond LT and out Austin Brook Trail.
There were wet trail conditions that won't be drying out for at least two weeks.
Running/hiking most trails out West is like learning to drive with automatic transmission. Running/hiking trails in the East is like learning to drive with standard transmission.
The Hoopla continues - but still a 20% chance of doing it.
I think this attempt will not last long.

[Tin Man]

He's got his dog SPOT to show us exactly how it is going, so, yes, we shall see.

[Tim Seaver]

Just did most of the Mahoosucs yesterday - Grafton Notch to Gentian Pond LT and out Austin Brook Trail.
There were wet trail conditions that won't be drying out for at least two weeks.

I noted that Karl has stated that he likes it wet. I have to wonder - is that a "Western" wet or an "Eastern" wet?

Given the current conditions and forecast, he is going to LOVE Maine and NH.

Or not. ;)

In any case, I wish Karl the best of luck on his attempt.

[OregonHiker]

Good Luck Karl!!!!

[Tin Man]

Easy there fella. Your gluteus maximus is showing.

[max patch]

Go study your AT History book and tell us what you discovered.

[rcli4]

Stumpknocker had a picture of him in his journal. WD has been doin more eatin then hiking lately.:):):)

Clyde

[sheepdog]

How is it that you can hike so much and still be so incredibly fat? I saw a picture of you and I was amazed. I gather that your interest in speed hiking is from an armchair's perspective?

"http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/images/icons/icon1.gif What I'd like to see: an apology
I think that those who were primarily responsible for the site being taken down know exactly who they are and what they did. I think that they should first apologize publicly to Attroll and Rock for causing so much extra work for them, then I think that they should apologize to the rest of us for causing a site that we enjoy and sometimes depend on to come close to being closed permanently. But of course they won't -- people such as that rarely take resposibility for anything they do. "RBoone

Are you happy with your first quote? Do you believe your second quote?

[ed bell]

Easy there fella. Your gluteus maximus is showing.


Go study your AT History book and tell us what you discovered.


"http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/images/icons/icon1.gif What I'd like to see: an apology
I think that those who were primarily responsible for the site being taken down know exactly who they are and what they did. I think that they should first apologize publicly to Attroll and Rock for causing so much extra work for them, then I think that they should apologize to the rest of us for causing a site that we enjoy and sometimes depend on to come close to being closed permanently. But of course they won't -- people such as that rarely take resposibility for anything they do. "RBoone

Are you happy with your first quote? Do you believe your second quote?Here is the post:
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showpost.php?p=657756&postcount=1
Will practice follow preach? Of coarse he won't, people like him rarely....blah, blah, blah.

[Homer&Marje]

Not that it matters, but I don't think running downhill on Katahdin is cheating at all, I mean if you start at Springer you run downhill too. What's amazing is that this gentleman of a very high stature is going to attempt to RUN the AT. I don't care who you are, what you do, or why this planet has chosen you for life in this precious existence. If you don't respect someone who is going to... again... RUN the AT well then the Goat's not crazy, you are:D Happy trails, who wants to start a Baby pool, my vote is 43 1/2 days... anyone got dibs? Start a poll PLEASE

[Tin Man]

Here is the post:
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showpost.php?p=657756&postcount=1
Will practice follow preach? Of coarse he won't, people like him rarely....blah, blah, blah.

who cares, just another sniveller

[sheepdog]

who cares, just another sniveller
I guess I care. I think all members should work to keep the site civil. All we need to do is point out the obvious.

[Tin Man]

I guess I care. I think all members should work to keep the site civil. All we need to do is point out the obvious.

The obvious point themselves out - no help needed. It's the nasty sarcastic types that thing a little winky [;)] excuses their comments that I find troubling.

[ed bell]

I guess I care. I think all members should work to keep the site civil. All we need to do is point out the obvious.Right on. Good point sheepdog.

[Sly]

Come on folks, can we get back on topic and away from the personal attacks.

[Tin Man]

Come on folks, can we get back on topic and away from the personal attacks.

Go Karl! :cool:

Less than 2 days until liftoff!

[rickb]

When does he need to cross the NH state line to "stay on track"?

Go Karl!

[Tin Man]

When does he need to cross the NH state line to "stay on track"?

Go Karl!

What's ME, 280 miles? Day 6 or 7 I would imagine. He cannot start too "slow" and expect to make it up later with only 47 days to work with.

[fiddlehead]

I just took a look at his itinarary (although he admits he might not stick to it)
He's going to try to do from South Arm Road (Andover, ME if i remember correctly) to Glencliff NH in 3 DAYS!

Now THAT I would bet against!

Seems he is not planning on slowing down through the whites. I don't know if he would put that out there as a joke to see what responses would come, or if he just doesn't know?

[Tin Man]

Maybe he subscribes to the sleep is overrated persuasion. :-?

[Woodstock 07]

if i'm not mistaken it took traildog 8 days thru maine. 35 a day thru there. warren, does that sound right?

[jersey joe]

The Hoopla continues - but still a 20% chance of doing it.
I think this attempt will not last long.
I find Warren's comments/analysis on Karls chances interesting.

I also found the "SPOT" device that Karl is carrying somewhat large relative to the the small pack he is using for his water bladder.

[saimyoji]

anybody notice the video set-up he'll be using?

[Jason of the Woods]

I'll be the one with the sticks far away from the trail.;)

[Hoop Time]

Re: Karl's itinerary. I got an e-mail from him about setting up an interview as he gets close to Central Pa. He says after Day 4, all bets are off as far as the itinerary goes.

I will be doing a pre-start of his effort interview this evening at 7:30. Will post some notes here after. Anybody with any questions they'd like to have answered, PM them to me and I will try to get answers if I can fit them into the interview.

[CrumbSnatcher]

good luck karl,stay safe! when you see a double blaze-turn.:D

[ed bell]

Re: Karl's itinerary. I got an e-mail from him about setting up an interview as he gets close to Central Pa. He says after Day 4, all bets are off as far as the itinerary goes.

I will be doing a pre-start of his effort interview this evening at 7:30. Will post some notes here after. Anybody with any questions they'd like to have answered, PM them to me and I will try to get answers if I can fit them into the interview.Very gracious offer and an interesting insight into this. Thanks for sharing it with WB.

[Alligator]

good luck karl,stay safe! when you see a double blaze-turn.:DLOL, and just pay the kid his two dollars:D.

[Hoop Time]

I am going to be writing more of a story based on tonight's interview, which I will post someplace if it does not run in the paper (not sure if the editors will want a story about him starting out, or just one when he is passing through the area)

But a few notes/observations from my conversation with Karl this evening:

-- I was very impressed by his respect for the trail and the challenge it presents. He does not think this will be easy. "The Appalachian Trail is absolutely brutal."

- Although he is an ultra runner, he does not plan to run the entire trail. He figures he will run 10 to 15 percent of the hike, but "most of it will be walking real fast." His plan is to travel sunrise to sunset, but he is prepared to night hike if need be

- The clean up the trail campaign is off. His crew will still be picking up litter in the places where he meets them as they wait for him to come through, but he says the ATC poo-pooed the idea of making cleaning up the trail a "cause" because they felt it would give people the impression the trail is dirty.

- His plan is to carry as little as possible. He has some different sized water packs similar to Camelbacks and will choose based on the distance between spots where he can meet his crew to resupply. When possible it will just be a fanny pack with a water bottle.

- Answer to the Kennebec ferry question many have wondered about is that he hopes to arrive at the river between 9-3 to take the canoe across.

- He plans to finish the trail, no matter how long it takes him. If he falls behind and can't break the record, he will still keep going until he reaches Georgia unless an injury would force him to abandon the effort.

- Karl plans to eat a lot of ice cream along the way, but unless he happens to be at Pine Grove Furnace at the end of the day, the half gallon challenge is out. "I'll be more than happy to take an ice cream cone to go, but any time I'm standing still, not moving forward, is wasted time."

I'll post a link to more tomorrow night or Tuesday.

[A-Train]

I am going to be writing more of a story based on tonight's interview, which I will post someplace if it does not run in the paper (not sure if the editors will want a story about him starting out, or just one when he is passing through the area)

But a few notes/observations from my conversation with Karl this evening:

-- I was very impressed by his respect for the trail and the challenge it presents. He does not think this will be easy. "The Appalachian Trail is absolutely brutal."

- Although he is an ultra runner, he does not plan to run the entire trail. He figures he will run 10 to 15 percent of the hike, but "most of it will be walking real fast." His plan is to travel sunrise to sunset, but he is prepared to night hike if need be

- The clean up the trail campaign is off. His crew will still be picking up litter in the places where he meets them as they wait for him to come through, but he says the ATC poo-pooed the idea of making cleaning up the trail a "cause" because they felt it would give people the impression the trail is dirty.

- His plan is to carry as little as possible. He has some different sized water packs similar to Camelbacks and will choose based on the distance between spots where he can meet his crew to resupply. When possible it will just be a fanny pack with a water bottle.

- Answer to the Kennebec ferry question many have wondered about is that he hopes to arrive at the river between 9-3 to take the canoe across.

- He plans to finish the trail, no matter how long it takes him. If he falls behind and can't break the record, he will still keep going until he reaches Georgia unless an injury would force him to abandon the effort.

- Karl plans to eat a lot of ice cream along the way, but unless he happens to be at Pine Grove Furnace at the end of the day, the half gallon challenge is out. "I'll be more than happy to take an ice cream cone to go, but any time I'm standing still, not moving forward, is wasted time."

I'll post a link to more tomorrow night or Tuesday.


I'm really pleased to hear he wants to finish the trail, record or no record. I can't understand the folks who think the trail isn't worth completing if their name isn't in the "record books". Hope he enjoys his hike.

[jersey joe]

Thanks for posting this A-Train. I was actually wondering if Karl would finish the trail if the record was out of reach...Karl really does strike me as being a good dude.

[Analogman]

This guy has the resume to take his attempt seriously.
====
Beginning August 5th on the summit of Mt. Kathadin I will begin my quest to run to Georgia faster than anyone else has. Andrew Thompson currently holds the record of 47 days and change.

Let's see...2,175 miles in 47 days = roughly 46 miles PER DAY!, average. Any shortfall will have to be made up the next day.

Good luck, Dude. I admire the intestinal fortitude.

[phantom_51]

There was some question as to whether Karl, living out west, knew anything about about trail conditions to east. He has been east a few times.

http://www.vhtrc.org/mmt/2007/results.htm

also 2005 and 2006

go karl

[Wilson]

Let's see...2,175 miles in 47 days = roughly 46 miles PER DAY!, average. Any shortfall will have to be made up the next day.

Good luck, Dude. I admire the intestinal fortitude.

Whats his avg. MPD at this point?

[The Old Fhart]

Wilson-"Whats his avg. MPD at this point?"Zero, He starts tomorrow. (Sorry, I had to say that!):D

[Hoop Time]

There was some question as to whether Karl, living out west, knew anything about about trail conditions to east. He has been east a few times.

http://www.vhtrc.org/mmt/2007/results.htm

also 2005 and 2006

go karl

I did talk to him about that. He said while the trails out west are generally smoother, he has run a lot of ultras on tough, rocky terrain elsewhere and feels "technical" stuff is one of his strong suits.

In addition to that Massanutten race, he has spent some time on the trail in Pa. when visiting his in-laws. His wife is from the Wind Gap area.

[Woodstock 07]

hoop time....thanks for the info. great insight into the speedgoat. looking forward to the interview tonight.

[CrumbSnatcher]

thanks for the info HOOP TIME thats was good reading. i agree with A-TRAIN thats its a good thing that he wants to finish regardless of the record. JERSEY JOE i have talked with speedgoat a couple times i agree with you he seems like a great dude,with a good head on his shoulder. its cool to see a 40yr old gonna kick some ass.

[fiddlehead]

Yeah, wind gap is almost identical to the whites.

[wilconow]

Yeah, wind gap is almost identical to the whites.

never been to wind gap or the whites, but Massanutten is one rugged area. it was only 100 miles/one weekend but finishing first in that race is quite an accomplishment

[Sly]

it was only 100 miles/one weekend but finishing first in that race is quite an accomplishment

Only! Fiddlehead must not have clicked on the link. 12 mph x 100= not bad!

[Hikerhead]

Only! Fiddlehead must not have clicked on the link. 12 mph x 100= not bad!

100 miles Divided by 20 hours to complete = 5 MPH average. 10 minutes per mile.

I must have missed something.

I can't do one mile on a flat course in that time.

[Lone Wolf]

i ran the JFK 50 miler in 8hrs 12min one time. i thought that was pretty good

[Wilson]

Zero, He starts tomorrow. (Sorry, I had to say that!):D

Thanks, I've been to his site several times...don't know why I've been thinking he'd already started.

[Hikerhead]

i ran the JFK 50 miler in 8hrs 12min one time. i thought that was pretty good

I'd say that was darn good. You Da Man!

[Hoop Time]

The editors shot down my idea of a story about Karl starting the record attempt, saying they would prefer just a story when he approaches Central Pa. since he is not a local guy. Since I already had an interview in the bag from Sunday night, and wanted to write the story, I went ahead and did one anyhow. It is posted in the articles section here on Whiteblaze.

[Skidsteer]

Nice job.

Here's a link to the article to make it easy to find from this thread:

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=39856

[Hoop Time]

Unbeknownst to me, and to the rest of the news side of our newsroom, one of the folks in features put together a story on Karl that ran this morning.

http://whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=39858

[Lone Wolf]

he's only doing 41 miles today :-?

[mudhead]

I can't tell if he is moving.

How does the spot work?

[fiddlehead]

Doesn't seem to be working.
I think it's broke.
Or maybe he is waiting for better weather???

[Hoop Time]

It looks like it is working. I see two "runner" icons, which would seem to indicate two positions. I think the Spot updates hourly, which would seem about right at this hour.

[jersey joe]

he's only doing 41 miles today :-?
PLUS getting to the top of Katahdin.

[Lone Wolf]

PLUS getting to the top of Katahdin.

back in 91 Maineak's last day was the exact mileage as Karl's first day. Karl should be going further

[jersey joe]

back in 91 Maineak's last day was the exact mileage as Karl's first day. Karl should be going further
My guess is that the lack of roads in Maine limits his options for going further. His spot tracking shows he's on his way down Katahdin.

[Lone Wolf]

My guess is that the lack of roads in Maine limits his options for going further. His spot tracking shows he's on his way down Katahdin.

that's why he and his crew need to learn to hike in and set up a camp beyond a road. back in 91 Horton could have done it much faster if he and his crew were more backpacker oriented. he should be off katahdin by now and close to daisey pond

[Hoop Time]

that's why he and his crew need to learn to hike in and set up a camp beyond a road. back in 91 Horton could have done it much faster if he and his crew were more backpacker oriented. he should be off katahdin by now and close to daisey pond

When I spoke with him Sunday night, he talked about there being roads that were 4-wheel accessible that they would use for support in the 100-M Wilderness.

He also said he planned to start off slowly.


It looks like it is working. I see two "runner" icons, which would seem to indicate two positions. I think the Spot updates hourly, which would seem about right at this hour.

Correction ... just read it updates every 10 minutes.

[jersey joe]

that's why he and his crew need to learn to hike in and set up a camp beyond a road. back in 91 Horton could have done it much faster if he and his crew were more backpacker oriented. he should be off katahdin by now and close to daisey pond
I understand your point and think that you are probably right. I guess the flip side of the arguement is that by running to roads he gets a comfortable bed and all the food/drinks he wants...which could help him run better by day.
I see 5 little orange guys now...looks like he's down off Katahdin.

[Frau]

I have lost my place (reading). Will someone repost how to get to the link that shows the 'spot'? I have been to Speedgoat's site several times, but must be overlooking something, or need new glasses...

Thanks much,

Frau

[fiddlehead]

Try this: http://www.whereskarl.com/?q=node/97

[Hoop Time]

Wonder what the little green hikers are? The support crew maybe? It looks like the sixth orange runner icon coincides with the "hikers"

[fiddlehead]

They must have two of them, here's another one for the rig: http://www.whereskarl.com/goingonvan.php

Money must be unlimited for this adventure, aye?

The runner seems like it updates about every 12-20 minutes

[Homer&Marje]

Seems he is not planning on slowing down through the whites. I don't know if he would put that out there as a joke to see what responses would come, or if he just doesn't know?

Can someone video him running up South Twin, I'd like to see the carnage if his quads blow up:D I know, that's wrong.

http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=26690&original=1&c=member&orderby=dateline&direction=DESC&imageuser=17846&cutoffdate=-1

[The Old Fhart]

Hoop Time-"Wonder what the little green hikers are? ..."Looks like that's where he officially started-Baxter Peak on Katahdin.

[The Old Fhart]

Homer&Marje-"Can someone video him running up South Twin..."Karl is heading south. NOBO hikers go up the steep side of South Twin (~1100'/.9mi) so he will be going down that side. Going SOBO the climb to the summit of South Twin is pretty easy.

[mudhead]

When did the tote road become Lily Bay Road? And the Golden road become Telos Road? Google or I am confused.

Will be strange following him if the names are messed up. (I used the minus on the map scale.)

[The Solemates]

this is better than the olympics...i look forward to tracking his progress!

[fiddlehead]

Google Earth also calls it Telos Road.
Don't know where they came up with that? Maybe Weary knows.

[The Solemates]

Money must be unlimited for this adventure, aye?



$100,000 spent by backcountrygear

[The Old Fhart]

The Solemates-"$100,000 spent by backcountrygear"I'll have to check my records but I believe that is more than I spent on my thru hike!;)

[Hoop Time]

$100,000 spent by backcountrygear

When I spoke with him Sunday, the $100,000 was his estimate, but that included all the man hours for building/maintaining the Web site, the graphics work on the RV an d other promotional stuff by the sponsors.

karl said it was way beyond what he expected when he approached some of his ultra running sponsors about the idea. When they started talking about everything they had in mind, his reaction was "Dude, I'm in if you want to support me like that."

[Homer&Marje]

Karl is heading south. NOBO hikers go up the steep side of South Twin (~1100'/.9mi) so he will be going down that side. Going SOBO the climb to the summit of South Twin is pretty easy.

You are correct, I should have known that since I JUST DID IT 8 DAYS AGO, my brain wasn't on correct this morning...there is so much in life that confuses me:-?

[OregonHiker]

And he's running backwards too! :)

[jersey joe]

this is better than the olympics...i look forward to tracking his progress!
Yes, Karl's hike should be very fun to follow this Summer.