PDA

View Full Version : Thru hike cost?



tomsawyer222
01-23-2008, 20:53
I am doing my calculations to figure how much money i need to have to do my thru hike and i am wondering if anyone has/ remebers a break down of about how much they spent on their thru hike?

spittinpigeon
01-23-2008, 20:56
About nine thousand, give or take a thousand. I'm not sure, call my five credit card companies, they'll give you a more accurate run-down.

Marta
01-23-2008, 21:01
You've hit on a subject that just about everyone planning a thru-hike wonders about. There is an article by Weathercarrot about keeping the cost down, and there are a number of threads on the cost. If you use the search function in the toolbar above, you will find a number of lengthy discussions of this.

In a nutshell: there are a few hardy souls who manage to get by with a couple thousand dollars; most people spend 4 or 5; some spend two or three times that much.

Lone Wolf
01-23-2008, 22:10
I am doing my calculations to figure how much money i need to have to do my thru hike and i am wondering if anyone has/ remebers a break down of about how much they spent on their thru hike?

$5000. todays standards

Shiloh
01-23-2008, 22:40
That would be $5,000 (+/-)

PLU$$$ -

The cost of 5 to 6 months for your current Basic Monthly Expenses for things like mortgage/rent, car payments, utility bills, credit card/loan payments, etc.

Also - don't forget the cost of 5 -6 months of Lost Wages.

The Good News is your monthly gasoline budget will go way down.

Cheers.

Pedaling Fool
01-23-2008, 23:32
....
The Good News is your monthly gasoline budget will go way down.

Cheers.
Good point. Start riding a bike now and bank the gas money;)

jersey joe
01-24-2008, 09:22
I'm shocked that people are quoting 5k-9k for a thru hike.
I spent roughly $650 for food on my hike and maybe #300 more in towns along the way.
Granted I had my equipment already and thru hiked in less than 4 months, but my equipment cost me about $500. That brings my total to roughly $1500 with gear.
I think most people opt for spending more in towns and gear but a thru can be done for less than 2k pretty easily.

DavidNH
01-24-2008, 10:30
I don't think it is unreasonable to budget 5000 dollars for a thru hike. This will allow you an occassional hotel night or big restaurant meals.

yes you can get by on a couple grand.. especially if you want to race and get the trip done in 4 months or less, and will have minimal town time.

But it is also important to take into account the other expenses. The recent college grad or younger, living at home for example, and has no outside bills will have a less expensive time of it. However if you are say 30+ and have to still maintain rent or storage fees, possibly loans, you will have higher expenses.

I think you should set your goal at x dollars for the hike, and then budget for a few thousand more than that so you can account for the unexpected. You may have to replace gear for example.

Also in NC and TN things are cheep. Not the case up in New England.

DavidNH

jersey joe
01-24-2008, 10:39
I don't think it is unreasonable to budget 5000 dollars for a thru hike. This will allow you an occassional hotel night or big restaurant meals.
DavidNH

I don't think it is unreasonable either to budget 5k for a thru. But the question was how much you NEED. 5k is prohibitive for a lot of college kids aspiring to thru hike. I was just pointing out that it can be done for less. Probably good to share both viewpoints though.

JAK
01-24-2008, 10:48
With this reccession coming people might be changing their view about what is reasonable. You could do a lot worse with $5K however. A lot worse. It is probably one of the more environmentally friendly ways to spend $5K and 6 months if you've got it.

HYOH

Frosty
01-24-2008, 11:27
I'm shocked that people are quoting 5k-9k for a thru hike.
I spent roughly $650 for food on my hike and maybe #300 more in towns along the way.
Granted I had my equipment already and thru hiked in less than 4 months, but my equipment cost me about $500. That brings my total to roughly $1500 with gear.
I think most people opt for spending more in towns and gear but a thru can be done for less than 2k pretty easily.There were two reasons whe your hike was so cheap compared to others:

1. You hike was only 111 days long. Most hikers now take 180 days. That alone would bring the food total up to $1,000 but you are exceptionally frugal. You averaged under six dollars a day for food, so you obviously did not spend much time in restaurants. From your hike, you undoubtably realize that this is the exception.

2. Of the 111 days of your hike, you spent 100 days in the woods and had no zero days. You had a total of only 7 nights where you paid for lodging: 4 nights in a hotel and 3 in a hostel.

In short, you are an exceptional hiker, and I mean that in the most positive sense.

You and Weathercarrot show what CAN be done. But most people still spend around five grand, I believe.

Johnny Swank
01-24-2008, 11:28
I'll have data available about this available on our site in about a week, assuming I can get a few hours to play with some data from my thru-hiker study. I'll try and sort things by decade, and give the numbers from the most recent years as well.

Grampie
01-24-2008, 11:36
I don't think it is unreasonable either to budget 5k for a thru. But the question was how much you NEED. 5k is prohibitive for a lot of college kids aspiring to thru hike. I was just pointing out that it can be done for less. Probably good to share both viewpoints though.

I also think $5000 is about right for what is required to do a thru. I caretake at a cabin in Mass. and a lot of younger hikers, at this point, are talking about leaving the trail because they have run out of money.
I always tell folks: Two things that you need to do a sucessfull thru are enough time and enough money.

baxter
01-24-2008, 12:16
I've budgeted 5,000 for my thru-hike this year, but I don't really expect to spend that much. I have all my gear, and don't expect to spend many zero days, hanging in town.
We'll see how it goes.....

JAK
01-24-2008, 13:19
I hope when I go there will be people as addicted to simple things like tea and honey as I am. I think most everybody is like that once they are on the trail though. My problem would be dragging my butt out of town. My arm is just as rubber as the next guys. I would like to see a lot of little tea and coffee shops spring up, with cheap live entertainment. Hard to make a living running a place like that I suppose. Perhaps we will all soon be blessed with another Great Depression, and things might get back to normal. ;)

Lone Wolf
01-24-2008, 13:24
the south is loaded with prissy little tea shops with evening poetry readings. that's why i have a hard time getting past damascus

Pedaling Fool
01-24-2008, 13:24
I hope when I go ...
So JAK, when are you going to let your feet do your hiking, you must have some pretty stong fingers by now.;)

partinj
01-24-2008, 13:35
I read somewhere can't rember right now that a guy did the trail on $800 took him 7 months to do the trail. he must have stay in the woods mostly incl. off days. I allready have all my gear before i start planing my hike. And i think you can do the trail on less than $2000 maybe $1500. I plan only gone to town to resupply and maybe get a meal sometime in a all you can eat buffers. plus i think you can stay petty clean on the trail with out geting a shower ever few days. If you just carry some wipes or a small fold up bowl to wash up with. I fig just on paying for showers you can spend $400 or more. just 2cent worth

JAK
01-24-2008, 13:38
My fingers will still be doing most of my walking for awhile, at least as far as the AT goes. I am thinking that it would be a really cool thing to do with my daughter in a few years if she is willing. :)

That's good to hear Lone Wolf. I think if I did it as a thru I would want to do it SOBO mostly because it is more natural for me to hike in the direction away from home towards the less familiar. I have driven to Florida many times over the years but only managed to get off the beaten track a few times. It is good to know I would have something to look foreward to. It's not all about the Smokeys and the Whites.

Next time I travel that far south will likely be for Disney or something crazy like that. Wife says I gotta do it someday and Margaret is getting to be just about the right age. If we do I would like to drive down, for reasons of nostalgia mostly. It would be fun to get a taste of places like Damascus along the way, but just as a teaser. Wouldn't want to spoil the dream.

Jack Tarlin
01-24-2008, 13:54
$3000 to $4500 is fine for most people, and many folks have great trips with less.

hopefulhiker
01-24-2008, 14:06
A while back it used to be a dollar a mile now it is about double that....

Jack Tarlin
01-24-2008, 14:15
"A while back it used to be a dollar a mile."

Um, well maybe 20 years ago, Hopeful.

Times have changed, and there aren't too many things that haven't shot up in price over the past two decades.

The cost of a long-distance hike isn't any different.

Lone Wolf
01-24-2008, 14:16
A while back it used to be a dollar a mile now it is about double that....

back in the day there were fewer hostels, b&bs and motels that catered to hikers. fewer outfitters with the high price of useless gear that hikers seem to need every other town. fewer people to clique up with and descend on towns and party. there was virtually no opportunity for slacpacking out of a hostel for days on end. paid shuttling opps were few and far between.

Jack Tarlin
01-24-2008, 14:19
In other words, hikers spent a whole lot more time in the woods and mountains than they did in town.

And consequently, they spent a whole lot less money.

Wolf has made an excellent point.

Pony
01-24-2008, 14:24
Are these dollar estimates strictly on the trail expenses? Or do they cover pre hike gear purchases, bills that must be paid while away, transportation to and from the trail, etc. etc.

Lone Wolf
01-24-2008, 14:25
Are these dollar estimates strictly on the trail expenses? Or do they cover pre hike gear purchases, bills that must be paid while away, transportation to and from the trail, etc. etc.

on trail expenses

Blissful
01-24-2008, 15:02
We spent roughly $4,000 a piece on ours, not including gear bought beforehand. That's for food, misc personal expenses like laundry, accommodations, replacing gear on the hike (but not the pack and sleeping bag my hubby got me as gifts on the hike!).

Johnny Swank
01-24-2008, 15:16
In other words, hikers spent a whole lot more time in the woods and mountains than they did in town.

And consequently, they spent a whole lot less money.

Wolf has made an excellent point.

I agree. Spend some time reading some of those hikes from the 70's sometime. You'll rarely even hear about a hostel, much less partying in towns for days.

The single biggest key to hiking cheap, IMO, is to spend as little time as possible in towns.

Check out Thru-hiking on the Cheap (http://sourcetosea.net/Articles/articles/thru-hiking-cheap.html) for some ideas about cutting down costs.

Marta
01-24-2008, 15:25
Hey, JS--How's the analysis coming along?

Chaco Taco
01-24-2008, 15:30
Im planning on $3500. i wont have rent to pay and am caught up on loans. I am going to sell off most everything. I have just finished getting my gear and am testing it over the next few months. I feel pretty good with the number I have on my thru.

jersey joe
01-24-2008, 15:42
From your hike, you undoubtably realize that this is the exception.


Frosty,
I do realize that my hike was more of the exception. I will agree with you that the main reason for keeping costs down was blowing through towns and not spending money there. Pick up my resupply and get back onto the trail. MY reason for hiking was to be out in the woods...i have spent plenty of time in towns since my thru :)

Frosty
01-24-2008, 15:53
Frosty,
I do realize that my hike was more of the exception. I will agree with you that the main reason for keeping costs down was blowing through towns and not spending money there. Pick up my resupply and get back onto the trail. MY reason for hiking was to be out in the woods...i have spent plenty of time in towns since my thru :)I enjoyed your journal. Just went back to look at it again. You were the guy who was sick through the Whites and kept on hiking. Impressed the hell out of me!

Anyone interested in how to hike cheaply out to read it.

http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=48920

jersey joe
01-24-2008, 16:11
You were the guy who was sick through the Whites and kept on hiking.

I got sick from eating leftover food at one of those damn huts in the whites, lonesome lake i believe, they sell the leftovers to thru hikers for a dollar and i thought it was a great deal, but it gave me some serious food poisoning.

Lone Wolf
01-24-2008, 16:13
I got sick from eating leftover food at one of those damn huts in the whites, lonesome lake i believe, they sell the leftovers to thru hikers for a dollar and i thought it was a great deal, but it gave me some serious food poisoning.

yeah, they let the *hit sit out all day and god knows who touches it

Hurley
01-24-2008, 16:36
Im planning on $3500. i wont have rent to pay and am caught up on loans. I am going to sell off most everything. I have just finished getting my gear and am testing it over the next few months. I feel pretty good with the number I have on my thru.

I'm i the same boat. should have around 3500 after gear a few more gear purchases. It might be tight, but I'll make it work for me.

AT-HITMAN2005
01-24-2008, 16:57
i spent around 3500 on my hike but that was with a lot of luxuries. my wife and i planning to have at least 3k each. but thats mainly just for a safety net. being together will save us some money on pretty much everything i think. this does not include money spent before hand on gear. i have all of mine but she had nothing.

like a couple people have already said- partying is a trip killer. resist the temptation.

Johnny Swank
01-24-2008, 17:34
Hey, JS--How's the analysis coming along?

Slow, but ponderously! I'm still verifying the low-hanging fruit (demographics, etc) then getting more the detailed stuff over the next few weeks. I'll be posting everything as it at www.SourcetoSea.net once I've finished converting everything to using Wordpress (yet another "easy" project that was supposed to only take a week to do!)

Pretty cool stuff from the first go-round of things. Money, time, direction of travel, speed, days to complete....... I'm digging it. Hope to get a book out on the details sometime in the next 24 months.

tomsawyer222
01-24-2008, 18:19
Well i Am going with my Girlfriend and i have us figured for about 3000 in food alone for the trip and i will be limiting my time in towns by staying on the trail for much longer than the average hiker i will be about 10-12 days between resupply so i will have less overall town stops. The only expense i leave behind is a car i am paying on should not have any storage fees and we will be using a wood stove so no fuel costs...We dont really party alot so that should not be a probablem.

Appalachian Tater
01-24-2008, 18:39
Well i Am going with my Girlfriend and i have us figured for about 3000 in food alone for the trip and i will be limiting my time in towns by staying on the trail for much longer than the average hiker i will be about 10-12 days between resupply so i will have less overall town stops. The only expense i leave behind is a car i am paying on should not have any storage fees and we will be using a wood stove so no fuel costs...We dont really party alot so that should not be a probablem.

You don't have to go 10-12 days without resupply. Just go in town, resupply, and leave. That's a lot of weight to carry.

Jack Tarlin
01-24-2008, 19:03
Tater is 100% correct: Most people go thru something like two to two and a half pounds of food per day. You really DON'T want to hike out of a town carrying a 27 pound foodbag, especially when there's no reason to put yourself thru this. Get in to town, have a shopping list prepared, get what you need, and get out. This works a lot better than carrying 12 days worth of stuff at a time!

max patch
01-24-2008, 19:10
I left Monson with 11 days worth of food (I had my reasons). That was one BIG food bag. Haven't carried that much food at one time again and hope I never have to.

HighlanderII
01-24-2008, 19:11
Yeah 27lbs of food is a lot of food -- I carried close to 25 out of Kincora and lugged most of it into Damascus with me. Boy was that stupid...

Don't go shopping when you're hungry!

Jack Tarlin
01-24-2008, 19:13
And I went from Gorham to Stratton once with a 10 day bag thinking I could save time and money by skipping Andover and staying in the woods.

Damn near killed me.

HighlanderII
01-24-2008, 19:18
My 2003 hike cost less than $2k on the trail but 1) I don't drink 2) I stayed out of the towns (more in the northern section than the southern) 3) I didn't enjoy the party crowd -- it wasn't like that in the early 90s. 4) it didn't take me very long to finish -- I really like to hike/keep the rubber on the trail.

Jack Tarlin
01-24-2008, 19:22
Wow, I just did the math in my head and realized that I can save between 350 and 500 dollars this summer just by not smoking anymore.

I think we'll put the savings into beer, BBQ, and bourbon.

Much healthier than Camels!! :D

HighlanderII
01-24-2008, 19:23
I picked up a mail drop on the top of Mt Washington in '91 (probably 7-10 days worth) with the pack weighing in at 65lbs and then hiked down to Pinkham and hitched to Gorham. I don't remember how far I went with that load but I know I slacked the next day over the Carters from the hostel in Gorham.

The knowledge and info that is available for today's hikers is so much better than back then. Now someone just asks the question and ten people will tell them how nuts they are to plan like that...

Frosty
01-24-2008, 19:36
Wow, I just did the math in my head and realized that I can save between 350 and 500 dollars this summer just by not smoking anymore.That doesn't work for some reason. I was smoking two packs a day and quit in '81. I didn't notice my bank account growing at all.

Then I quit drinking about 8-9 years later. Now that should REALLY have given me more money. I favored Scotch and ran up some horrendous bar bills on a regular basis. So where is all that money I'm not spending?

I should be rich by now, but I can tell you that ain't the case.

Frosty
01-24-2008, 19:38
The knowledge and info that is available for today's hikers is so much better than back then. Now someone just asks the question and ten people will tell them how nuts they are to plan like that...Thanks. You just made me snort Dr Pepper out my nose.

Classic.

stranger
01-24-2008, 19:54
I roughly plan on spending about $4000-5000 on my hike this year, although I will have considerable more than that to my disposal if I need it but would like to use that for other things after my hike.

The reasons why I don't think I can hike on $3000-3500 is because I spent around $1000 in 1995 hiking from Springer to Troutville, approx 1/3 of the way and that was 13 years ago. In 2001 I spent about $900 hiking from Waynesboro to the NY border, about 520 miles - but I won't be going as crazy as I did on that hike in terms of town stops and partying this time.

So based on that, and inflation, I know that I WILL spend about 2 dollars a mile - but maybe even more. But I've also been saving like a nut for the past year and depriving myself of plenty on a daily basis, so if I'm tired and it's raining and I need a shower and the hotel is $70, so be it.

It's only money.

jersey joe
01-25-2008, 12:52
Besides houseing and car costs that several have mentioned in this thread, one could also argue that the cost of a thru hike is much higer because of forfeited income potential from one's job.

Marta
01-25-2008, 12:55
Besides houseing and car costs that several have mentioned in this thread, one could also argue that the cost of a thru hike is much higer because of forfeited income potential from one's job.

My husband was very conscious of the effect of that one.

warren doyle
01-25-2008, 13:06
Trail runner/sneakers at thrift stores $1-5 a pair x 4 pairs = $4-20

7 x 9' tarp - approximately $25

new external backpack - $70

one used ski pole - $1

clothing from thrift stores - $40

sleeping bag - $30-80

Wal-Mart blue sleeping pad - $6

135 days on the trail (no zero days in town) without paying for any indoor or outdoor lodging - $5 a day (Total- $675)

A thru-hike of the AT can be done for under $1,000. It is a matter of choice and your level of comfort.

minnesotasmith
01-25-2008, 13:42
Five grand minimum, not counting gear (pre-hike or replacement during your hike), transportation, illness/injury medical costs, ongoing prescription drugs, recreational drugs (pot/booze/tobacco), pink-blazing, home front costs like medical/vehicle insurance/housing/interest, credit card fees, cell phone bills, or charity.

jersey joe
01-25-2008, 14:21
minnesotasmith, sounds like five grand comfortable, not minimum...looks like warren figured the minimum pretty well.

Jack Tarlin
01-25-2008, 14:50
My question in. re. to Mr. Doyle's post is are these figures reflective of supported or non-supported hikes?

Fact is, VERY few people could have a happy, successful thru-hike of the A.T. for $1000.00 if they were unsupported, i.e., they were not relying on daily visits from an automotive support team. The presence of a vehicle makes it much easier to have minimal or no zero days in towns.

A self-supported hike of the A.T. (a 26 week hike, i.e a typical one) would give you a budget of around $39.00 a week. For most hikers, this is not a realistic figure, especially if they were travelling without a support team.

max patch
01-25-2008, 14:57
My question in. re. to Mr. Doyle's post is are these figures reflective of supported or non-supported hikes?

Fact is, VERY few people could have a happy, successful thru-hike of the A.T. for $1000.00 if they were unsupported, i.e., they were not relying on daily visits from an automotive support team. The presence of a vehicle makes it much easier to have minimal or no zero days in towns.

A self-supported hike of the A.T. (a 26 week hike, i.e a typical one) would give you a budget of around $39.00 a week. For most hikers, this is not a realistic figure, especially if they were travelling without a support team.

Good point.

"Most" hikers who set out to do a typical thru hike with a $1,000 budget would be calling home for bus fare somewhere around Damascus.

KirkMcquest
01-25-2008, 15:04
Most College kids that I've met were really frugal; sharing rooms w/4 or 5 guys, eating fast food in towns ( no good restaurants ), very few stay-overs in town, etc.. Doing it like that, I guess they could finish on very little $$.

Jack Tarlin
01-25-2008, 15:10
Your "guess" would hold more weight after you've been on the Trail for six months.

Even if you share motel rooms or eat on the cheap, you're not going to have a very good time on a thousand bucks.

And note that this budget leaves NO room for medical problems; emergency gear replacement, etc.

Anyone that thru-hikes today on $1000.00 is eating Ramen or rice every day, never stays in town, and their big weekly thrill is blowing $1.25 on a Popsicle.

This is NOT how most people want to hike, and to suggest that this sort of budget is realistic for a non-supported hiker is simply not true.

Chaco Taco
01-25-2008, 16:26
I know I already mentioned it but im looking at $3500. The thing with me is that I do not own a car, so no insurance, taxes, gas. Also, I do not own my house. I am paying off a school loan but have a minimal amount I pay each month. Im also getting a sizeable refund from taxes and the rebate that just passed. I feel pretty fortunate that i will be able to go with good amount of money. My overall plan is to basically leave the town I am in for good, thruhike and settle closer to the trail, maybe Asheville, and go back to school.
Im still shootin for about $3500 and will be buying as I go. Im over a year out and have about half that saved. I may end up with more.

Oh yea and the article by Jack about saving for a thru is great for learning to cut cost out for people seriously seeking a thru.

Thanks Jack!!!

warren doyle
01-25-2008, 16:30
If I was to do an unsupported thru-hike this is what I would spend and I would be be happy.

As I stated, it is a matter of choice and level of comfort.

Not all of us have to stay in indoor lodging along the way. Not all of us have to party. Not all of us have to stay in the 'politically correct' hostels. Not all of us have to resupply in the 'designated' towns. Not all of us have to shop in the 'approved' outfitters. Not all of us have to carry heavy backpacks to have what we need.

We all have our individual levels of comfort. We all have our individual needs.
These variables determine how much money an individual would spend on a thru-hike.

And who is to say how long a non-endurance record attempt thru-hike should take? I would feel comfortable with an unsupported thru-hike of 120-130 days at this time in my life.

Jack Tarlin
01-25-2008, 16:44
What the hell is a "politically approved" hostel?

Or an "approved" hostel?"

Jeez, what a ridiculous post, Warren.

Most of your A.T. Trail miles came with car support and the comfort of always having a car around, tho you never like to talk about it. This makes things a whole lot easier in all sorts of ways.

Yeah, if my wife or girlfriend met me at every other road crossing with meals and treats, and if I wanted to camp near or in a van instead of going to town or staying in hostels or motels, I could sure save a truckload of money. So could anyone. This isn't exactly rocket science.

But fact is, most people neither travel like this, nor do they WANT to travel like this. Most long-distance hikers travel without the benefit of a support vehicle.

A $1,000.00 thru-hike is entirely unrealistic for most people whether or not Mr. Doyle wishes to admit it.

Ender
01-25-2008, 18:10
Decent post Warren, though I am not sure what you mean by a politically correct hostel. But other than that, yeah, every little variable can affect how much a thru-hike will cost. Most people will spend a decent amount on the trail, probably $3K and up. I knew two girls on the PCT who together couldn't have spent more than $1500-$2000, if even that much. Heck, I alone spent a couple thousand more than they did together. Of course, it's a little easier to do on the PCT because almost every hostel out there is free.

Will most people hike on such a small budget? Heck no, but it is possible if you're willing to give up a lot of the comforts of town. I noticed on my AT hike I ended up spending way less in the northern states because I stopped staying in town every week, and instead did a lot of going into and out of town the same day and just spending the night in the woods. Didn't stop it completely, but I'd say up north my town/hostel stayovers dropped by as much as 50% or more, and my wallet noticed the savings.

On average though, $3K-$5K, maybe a little more now. But it's doable on both more and on less. Just choices you make.

Jack Tarlin
01-25-2008, 18:24
Actually, from what I've observed, most hikers spend less money up north for two main reasons:

*Fewer towns and facilities up there, and they are further apart than the
usual layover spots down South.

*A lot of folks, especially younger hikers, are running short on funds by the
time they get up North.

In other words, if there are fewer places to stop and spend money, and if they are far apart, and if you don't have much money to spend anyway, you are likely to spend less money in these parts of the Trail.

This isn't rocket science.

A-Train
01-25-2008, 19:47
Actually, from what I've observed, most hikers spend less money up north for two main reasons:

*Fewer towns and facilities up there, and they are further apart than the
usual layover spots down South.

*A lot of folks, especially younger hikers, are running short on funds by the
time they get up North.

In other words, if there are fewer places to stop and spend money, and if they are far apart, and if you don't have much money to spend anyway, you are likely to spend less money in these parts of the Trail.

This isn't rocket science.

Add in the fact that one is typically very assimilated and comfortable with living in the woods for long periods of time, while when they started they relied on creature comforts a lot more often

rcli4
01-25-2008, 21:02
A $1,000.00 thru-hike is entirely unrealistic for most people whether or not Mr. Doyle wishes to admit it.[/QUOTE]

Does the $1,000 include gas money? I don't think I can drive from Ga to Me for $1,000. His support team alone would be more than a grand.

Clyde

jersey joe
01-26-2008, 00:15
Fact is, VERY few people could have a happy, successful thru-hike of the A.T. for $1000.00 if they were unsupported, i.e., they were not relying on daily visits from an automotive support team. The presence of a vehicle makes it much easier to have minimal or no zero days in towns.


The more I read this post the more I feel like I am in the minority on this issue. I tend to side with Warren. I did spend time in towns but I hiked in one day and out the next. And while I was there, I split a hotel room with 3 other guys or tented. A big reason for my thru hike was to get into nature and out of towns...I was happy to just have/need/want the basic necessities for a few months. A $1000 hike is doable for someone who can leave their consumerism at home.

CrumbSnatcher
01-26-2008, 00:30
ran into a couple hikers over the years that never tipped their waitresses. told me they were watching every penny. is that pathetic or what? or the hikers that say thier out of money to recieve free help,when there not broke. sad! two to two and a half bucks per mile is what i shoot for.

A-Train
01-26-2008, 00:34
ran into a couple hikers over the years that never tipped their waitresses. told me they were watching every penny. is that pathetic or what? or the hikers that say thier out of money to recieve free help,when there not broke. sad! two to two and a half bucks per mile is what i shoot for.

That's pathetic. If you can't afford to tip you have no reason to be eating out. Giving hikers bad names. Hope you slapped those boys:)

That's why I try to leave a big tip sometimes. Us hikers can be royal pains in the asses with 12 seperate checks, 19 refills on our drinks, and asking for the most obnoxious requests.

CrumbSnatcher
01-26-2008, 00:38
A-train, I Cant Just Start Slapping Everyone. But It Sure Sounds Like Fun. Is There Any Traing Videos?

Montego
01-26-2008, 00:39
A-train, I Cant Just Start Slapping Everyone. But It Sure Sounds Like Fun. Is There Any Traing Videos?

Think Chuck Norris has one :D

A-Train
01-26-2008, 00:43
A-train, I Cant Just Start Slapping Everyone. But It Sure Sounds Like Fun. Is There Any Traing Videos?

Yes you can. You're Crumb Daddy, Bi@TCH!

CrumbSnatcher
01-26-2008, 00:48
speaking about money. i found a not so mint 2006 virginia quarter by the fire ring at tri-corner knob shelter this last spring(march) if anyone wants to claim it? send me 4 dollors for shipping and handling, and i'll get it in the mail right away....

Jack Tarlin
01-26-2008, 15:31
Jersey Joe:

As has been previously pointed out, a $1000.00 thru hike means you have less than 40.00 a week to spend while en route. Assuming one spends around 4 bucks a day on food , this leaves one with just over ten dollars a week for EVERYTHING else they might want or need while on their trip.

Most folks cannnot hike on a budget this tight, nor would they enjoy doing so.

Oh, and let's see how far that four bucks a day gets you in the way of food:

*Two Oatmeal packets at 35 cents each: .70
*One cup of instant coffee .15

*Granola Bar for a snack .35

*Cheese sandwhich (on a bagel, with pepperoni) 1.25
*Candy Bar .65

*One Lipton Dinner 1.35
*One packet cheese/crackers .35
*One Snickers bar .65
*One cup of Hot Chocolate .25

If you look at the above menu, it's pretty damned spartan; most folks eat a lot more than this, and would starve if they ate like this every day. Oh, and did you notice that this totals $5.70, which kinda blows a hole in your food budget if you only have four bucks a day to spend on food.

In other words, 39 dollars a week doesn't go very far, even if you're willing to do without amenities like motels, hostels, restaurant meals, etc. 39 bucks a week hardly feeds you, never mind money for such things as postage; first aid; gear repair or replacement, etc.

A one thousand dollar thru hike is simply unrealistic for most folks and this has nothing to do with committing to "leaving ones consumerism" at home. The simple truth is that one will have expenses over a six-month trip, and $39.00 a week will simply not cover them. For the vast majority of folks, a $1000.00 budget is totally unrealistic.

OregonHiker
01-26-2008, 16:13
If I was to do an unsupported thru-hike this is what I would spend and I would be be happy.

As I stated, it is a matter of choice and level of comfort.

Not all of us have to stay in indoor lodging along the way. Not all of us have to party. Not all of us have to stay in the 'politically correct' hostels. Not all of us have to resupply in the 'designated' towns. Not all of us have to shop in the 'approved' outfitters. Not all of us have to carry heavy backpacks to have what we need.

We all have our individual levels of comfort. We all have our individual needs.
These variables determine how much money an individual would spend on a thru-hike.

And who is to say how long a non-endurance record attempt thru-hike should take? I would feel comfortable with an unsupported thru-hike of 120-130 days at this time in my life.

Right On!! :)

Jack Tarlin
01-27-2008, 16:15
Well, he's right about one thing, at any rate.

Every long-distance hiker decides for themselves what their "individual needs"
or "individual levels of comfort are."

For example, most of them actually traverse the Trail without a car. :rolleyes:

Honestly, folks, for someone to be talking about how to have a "spartan" no-frills thru-hike, while at the same time enjoying the benefits of a driver, a support vehicle, and a van full of goodies.....well, this is a "comfort level" most hikers simply don't have.

Mountain Man
01-27-2008, 18:05
I planned on $3500.00 last year but found out quick that it wouldn't be enough for me. I spent $3000.00 by just before Pearsburg, Va.. As for me I wouldn't have had it any other way though because I was doing what I wanted to do. I had fun and thats what I was out there for. As for the nature thing, I'm in the woods most every day anyway so I was just out having fun and meeting folks. It could probably be done on $2000.00 but would take alot of discipline. My next attempt would be no less than $5000.00 and thats not counting gear, bills at home. Of course this is just me as those that hiked with me knows I liked hitting the towns where there were restarunts,beer and all that good stuff is.:D

Kirby
01-27-2008, 18:45
I am blessed with the fact that I don't have to calculate beer costs into my budget.

Kirby

Trillium
01-27-2008, 18:47
Jersey Joe:
As has been previously pointed out, a $1000.00 thru hike means you have less than 40.00 a week to spend while en route. Assuming one spends around 4 bucks a day on food , this leaves one with just over ten dollars a week for EVERYTHING else they might want or need while on their trip.not even; that man (I was going to say idiot but I don't want to be name calling) is including all his gear in the $1000:


Trail runner/sneakers at thrift stores $1-5 a pair x 4 pairs = $4-20

7 x 9' tarp - approximately $25

new external backpack - $70

one used ski pole - $1

clothing from thrift stores - $40

sleeping bag - $30-80

Wal-Mart blue sleeping pad - $6

135 days on the trail (no zero days in town) without paying for any indoor or outdoor lodging - $5 a day (Total- $675)

A thru-hike of the AT can be done for under $1,000. It is a matter of choice and your level of comfort.

and I want to know what the blank kind of shoes can one get for $1-5/pair; sounds like effing canvas tennie shoes like my 80 yr old mother wears around the house. I certainly don't have the hiking credentials of many on this site but even I know it would be foolhardy to hike in $1-5/pr shoes; they'd be wore out by Neels Gap.


Most folks cannnot hike on a budget this tight, nor would they enjoy doing so.

A one thousand dollar thru hike is simply unrealistic for most folks and this has nothing to do with committing to "leaving ones consumerism" at home. The simple truth is that one will have expenses over a six-month trip, and $39.00 a week will simply not cover them. For the vast majority of folks, a $1000.00 budget is totally unrealistic.exactly. I don't understand these extremely, extremely frugal types, who when someone asks how much to budget assume that they mean the very bare minimum. For crying out loud, the poster how much to plan on. He didn't ask what the absolute cheapest way of doing a thru-hike was; he asked approximately how much to plan for. So, the sensible, reasonable answer would be the mean of what an average thru-hiker spends.

rant over.

Mountain Man
01-27-2008, 19:29
I am blessed with the fact that I don't have to calculate beer costs into my budget.

Kirby

Yeah, It would of probably saved me at least a grand.:D

Lilred
01-27-2008, 19:55
let's see, if I went on a thru hike, I would need
$2000 a month for 6 months for bills at home -- 12,000
$500 a month to cover insurance while I'm gone 3,000
and then $5000 to cover expenses on the trail for a total of $18,000 at the minimum. I doubt I'll ever get to do a thru hike........:(

jessicacomp
01-27-2008, 21:08
So, I read the 4 pages of replies here, and I have a question. I am estimating that I will have somewhere between $3,300-$4,000 to spend on hiking costs, which wont include bills, loans, etc. Any tips on how I cannot run out of money?
I am planning several maildrops, but only around 8, I think. I have family and friends along the trail, so I can have people bring me stuff when they visit as well.
I plan on bringing my credit card, just in case. However, when I return, I plan on moving soon after and hate the idea of havng no money while doing that.
So, again, any suggestions? Thanks in advance! :)

Marta
01-27-2008, 21:18
Jessicacomp--A technique someone I hiked with in '06 used was to have a $100 limit on his debit card. He kept most of his money in a bank account not linked to the debit card, and had to go online and move it into the account linked to the debit card.

There are a thousand times on a hike when you can decide to spend more, or less, money. It'll help you get by if you avoid people who will urge you to spend more, and hang with people who have budgets similar to yours.

Jack Tarlin
01-27-2008, 21:22
Read Weathercarrot's excellent article in the "Articles" section for starters.

Other suggestions:

*Limit your town time. Don't overnight in town unless you really need to. If
you can get into a town early in the day; do all your town stuff (shopping;
phone calls; Internet; laundry) catch a quick bite to eat, and then GET OUT.
It's impossible to spend money in the woods. Getting in and out will save
you all sorts of money you'd otherwise spend on restaurant meals; hostels;
motels; movies; beer, you name it. If you can discipline yourself to get in
and out of town in a hurry, you'll save hundreds of dollars.

*Make a shopping list well before you go to a supermarket and never shop
when you're hungry. Shopping on a full stomach with a list will cut down on
unneeded impulse purchases, and having a list will get you outta the market
much quicker, which will also save money.

*Be wise with your gear shopping BEFORE you start, and be sure you're happy
with your choices, especially your back and your footwear. The ammount of
cash that some folks spend replacing stuff they should never have bought in
the first place is mind-boggling. Shop smart ahead of time; shop around;
be prepared to pay top dollar, and don't buy junk.

*On zero days in town, skip some meals. Have an enormous late breakfast,
skip lunch, have an early dinner. If you skip a restaurant meal in every other
town stop, you'll save acoupole hundrd bucks over the whole trip.

*Don't be a snob with food or drink. At the end of the day, as couple of PBR's
will feel just as good as a Heineken. Generic foods (like House Brand Liptons
or Pop Tarts) taste just fine. Instead of 7.00 Mountain House dinners, eat
Liptons, but add spices, hot sauce, grated cheese.

This is all I have time for now, will think of more later. But really, the biggest hint is limit your town time. Towns eat money. The less time you're in them, the less money they eat.

jessicacomp
01-27-2008, 21:26
Thanks, Marta. I tend to that with my debit card a lot already, for that same reason! haha. I hadnt thought of doing it on the trail, but I like that idea.

Also, an extension to the question I asked- for those who have thru hiked before, do you have any advice on buying gear before I go that I am most likely going to replace. For example, would you suggest doing something like buying a second pair of shoes now, so that if mine wear out, I dont have to spend a lot more money on the trail getting another pair than I could getting a pair right now to have ready to mail out?

jessicacomp
01-27-2008, 21:27
Thanks, Jack, I just saw your post after I replied to Marta. That was a big help!

Marta
01-27-2008, 21:33
Unless you have done a lot of hiking already, I wouldn't advise getting a second pair of shoes yet. The ones you start with might not work well for you. And your feet might change shape by the time you need another pair. If either of these things happen, the money you might have saved will, in fact, be wasted.

stranger
01-28-2008, 03:17
Obviously there are some hikers that can get by on much less than others, but I would be curious to know if anybody actually enjoys thru-hiking the AT on a strictly limited budget? Of course some will say they do, but who is going to say "I hate f###ing hiking on this budget and I'm so f+++ing pissed off watching everyone else have fun!" Who would actually say that?

I have hiked long distances with some of the people who know a thing or two about saving money on the trail, and I can't honestly say they looked like they were having fun. I remember one scenario when a hiker went back and forth over and over in their head whether or not they should shell out the $3 for a burger, then discussed it aloud to himself - that's so depressing to me. YES...he bought the burger.

Another situation a hiker in Vernon NJ debated over and over again trying to justify going to Mountain Creek water park, the whole night before, then again in the morning...YES he came to the water park. This is what happens to most hikers that I've hiked with over the years...they start out thinking they will be disciplined, then are not when it's 98 degrees and the water park costs $40, or it's raining and the hotel costs $40 or when everyone decides to hit the pub late in the afternoon, etc...

I would rather have the money and not need it than have to hike on a limited budget...and I think it's sound advice to hit the trail with as much money as possible, and personally I don't think $3500-$5000 for 6 months is even remotely expensive in the scheme of things.

But to each their own...just don't ever expect someone else to bail you out when you need a burger or a shower.

HighlanderII
01-28-2008, 18:52
I hiked on a budget in the early '90s and had the time of my life. I had such a great time that I went back and hiked again in 2003 after thinking about hiking again every Spring.

What made the hike(s) enjoyable for me was that I really like to hike. Yes, there were some miserable times but I don't expect everyone enjoys every day that it is pouring rain, bug infested, or 95F+ all day. Those beautiful crystal clear days make up very quickly for the bad days.

I used the same gear the whole (90's) trip (except the long pants -- blue jeans which I sent home 10 days in) -- I think I went in an outfitter once to get replacement laces for my boots. I spent a few nights in hotels/hostels and used maildrops for supplies (which was a mistake). I met tons of great people who I had lots in common with and just plain had fun out hiking and camping with the few other thru-hikers who were on the trail.

I returned to the trail in 2003 (with basically no budget restrictions) with the vision of how it had been stuck in my head. It wasn't the same. There were tons more people, many of whom had a different purpose for being on the trail (party, spend time in towns). So I hiked, many more miles per day than planned, and had a different kind of trip. I still had a great trip, but it was just different.

I can understand how Warren can say that one could hike the trail for very little money invested in gear or spent on the trail as he was out hiking in the "old" days when it was just different than it is today. The trip in 2003 was overall cheaper (not adjusting for inflation) than the first one but I was out more than a month longer.

warren doyle
01-28-2008, 19:53
Posts #66, 88 - insightful
Post #74 - Right on back to you!
Posts #61, 75 - The same old garbage.
Post #78 - All you have to say is my budget wouldn't work for you.

Answer to post #55

135 day unsupported thru-hike - $675 ($5 per day - $35 a week)

Typical week would have me going to/through two towns/stores a week

A day on the trail:

six Little Debbie brownies - $1.25

one mac & chesse - $.33

Total - $1.58 w/$3.42 cents left over x 5 trail days = $17.90 surplus over five days on the trail per week

This would give me $27.90 to spend in stores/restaurants along the way at an average of 2 stores/towns a week.

This for me is not unrealistic, however it is unusual but still doable.

On my 14-day, 2006 John Muir Trail backpack (without resupply), I ate four boxes of Little Debbie brownies - Total cost $10 for 14 days - $.72 a day for food.
I did spend about $10 for a meal when I finished at Whitney Portal. A grand total of $20 for 14 days of backpacking - $1.40 per day.
So $5 a day on the AT (135 days) is not unrealistic.

Lone Wolf
01-28-2008, 19:55
he'll be along in a minute or two..:)

slow
01-28-2008, 20:14
Posts #66, 88 - insightful
Post #74 - Right on back to you!
Posts #61, 75 - The same old garbage.
Post #78 - All you have to say is my budget wouldn't work for you.

Answer to post #55

135 day unsupported thru-hike - $675 ($5 per day - $35 a week)

Typical week would have me going to/through two towns/stores a week

A day on the trail:

six Little Debbie brownies - $1.25

one mac & chesse - $.33

Total - $1.58 w/$3.42 cents left over x 5 trail days = $17.90 surplus over five days on the trail per week

This would give me $27.90 to spend in stores/restaurants along the way at an average of 2 stores/towns a week.

This for me is not unrealistic, however it is unusual but still doable.

On my 14-day, 2006 John Muir Trail backpack (without resupply), I ate four boxes of Little Debbie brownies - Total cost $10 for 14 days - $.72 a day for food.
I did spend about $10 for a meal when I finished at Whitney Portal. A grand total of $20 for 14 days of backpacking - $1.40 per day.
So $5 a day on the AT (135 days) is not unrealistic.

You make GOOD on the cheap for,what it is.:)

Jack Tarlin
01-28-2008, 20:23
Yep, right on time, Wolf!

It shouldn't need to be said again, but while this system works for Warren, it wouldn't work for most people.

Most people require more food than half a dozen Little Debbies and a box of macaroni.

And they certainly wouldn't want to eat like this every day.

So I stand by my original comments, i.e. the vast majority of long-distance hikers neither want, nor would be able to maintain a regimen this spartan.

Lastly, I'm sory Mr. Doyle referred to several of my posts as "garbage." But the fact is, it is Mr. Doyle who on at least three occasions in this thread told us about it being all about finding one's "comfort level."

Um, Mr. Doyle, you generally hike the A.T. equipped with a motor vehicle!! :D
Sounds like you demand a pretty high comfort level to me!

Yet you have the gall to lecture folks on what can be achieved if they minimize and conquer their comfort level? Are you kidding?

Lemme get this straight. What you're saying is: "If you can rise above the hoi polloi and turn your back on gross materialism and naked consumerism, and can make do without a high personal comfort level, one can achieve wonderful things! But, um, gee, can I still keep my vehicle, driver, and daily meetings with my support people? Please, please?"

Ridiculous. All that needs to be said is that Mr. Doyle describes his method of hiking the Trail as "unusual."

Wel, no argument there!

Lone Wolf
01-28-2008, 20:25
you're hatred is laughable :)

Jack Tarlin
01-28-2008, 20:30
What hatred, Wolf ?

All I said (around five time now) is that his level of spartanness on a hike is unrealistic for just about everyone else out there.

And plenty of folks have agreed with me.

I further said that people that hike with cars should probably refrain from telling other people how they can hike on a minimalist comfort level, unless of course, they want to make themselves look silly by saying foolish things.

This isn't hatred, just an observation. If YOU had said precisely the same things, Wolf, I'd have made precisely the same points, about the size of your budget, and about your high comfort level while hiking.

And would it'd have been "hateful" if I said this about you? :-?

hammock engineer
01-28-2008, 20:37
If it helps I tended to average $10 a day in whatever cheap food I could find after the hunger hit.

But as others said, zero in the woods, nero in and out, and stay away from the party crowd. It helped when I was with other people on a budget. It was hard to say no when the people I was with would spend the money.

Jack Tarlin
01-28-2008, 20:49
To Tom who started this thread:

Sorry we got sidetracked. I hope some of the above posts answered your original question. If you use the "Search" engine here on the website, there are all sorts of other threads that contain ideas on hiking on a budget; typical budgets; tips on saving money, etc.

slow
01-28-2008, 20:55
Both are Right.:)

But i would like 10k at hand,if belly up to the bar or food.:)

Frosty
01-28-2008, 21:10
The simple truth is that one will have expenses over a six-month trip, and $39.00 a week will simply not cover them. For the vast majority of folks, a $1000.00 budget is totally unrealistic.Last statement is very true, but if you go back and read his first post, I don't think Jersey Joe was advocating a thousand dollar hike for everyone. He just expressed surprise at what people were spending and stated what he had done.

BTW, his hike was four months long, so his budget was one and a half times higher than the figures you presented. I guess if you skip town stays, you don't need as much time.

Me, I could never do a hike on that little money, but my hat's off to him and Warren and Weathercarrot and those two PCT women and everyone who can and does.

CrumbSnatcher
01-28-2008, 21:24
It Is Very Impressive That A Select Few Strong Hikers Can/could Hike On A Very Modest Budget! But In My Opionion Even They Should Reccommend (to Beginners)a Higher Ammount(especially If Someone Needs To Ask) Why Not Go With A Higher Ammount. Even If You Would Never Spend That Much. What Would It Hurt If They Came Home With A Little Cash Left Over? I Wouldnt Want To Be The One That Reccommend A Low Ammount And Then Have That Person Runs Out Of Cash And Has To Go Home...

Appalachian Tater
01-28-2008, 21:31
A thru-hiker who ate nothing but packaged chemical-laden snack cakes and macaroni with artificial "cheese" sauce would be unlikely to complete the A.T. due to physical problems. There's almost no protein there.

JAK
01-28-2008, 21:37
That's not to say that such foods as snack cakes and such are the cheapest, or that more nutritious foods can't be cheaper. Generally speaking less processing = cheaper and more nutritious and better for the environment.

JAK
01-28-2008, 21:44
Take oatmeal for example. Don't buy instant oatmeal packs. Buy oats, from either the bulk food section or the baking goods section. You can also buy cheap dried vegetable soup mixes and then add lentils. Food can be very cheap and nutritious, if done properly.

hammock engineer
01-28-2008, 21:45
One thing to consider to is your limited to where you resupply. Most of the convience store/gas station resupplies I did were not always the cheapest.

JAK
01-28-2008, 21:46
Who can come up with the cheapest and most nutritious grocery list for a 6 day section, at say 4500 kcal per day?

JAK
01-28-2008, 21:55
One thing to consider to is your limited to where you resupply. Most of the convience store/gas station resupplies I did were not always the cheapest.That's a good point. They are also hardly the most nutritious. Also to take full advantage of cheap bulk food you have to purchase it in fairly large quantities, though you don't have to go overboard. If you find a grocery store with a good bulk food section you can get lots of variety in small quantities. In regular 'baked goods' sections the smallest sizes are too bad. Almonds and raisins can be purchased in reasonable quantities. You might have to go as big as 2 pounds of oats, and you might have to carry that a while, but personally I don't mind limiting the variety on any given resupply as long as I could mixe things up a bit from one section to the next. Switch from raisins to dates maybe, or oats to grits, or almonds to peanuts. I like the simplicity of buying bulk and packing bulk. My main staples are oats, honey, and skim milk powder. I understand as I go South the staples and variations would likely change, but I'm fine with that.

slow
01-28-2008, 22:15
No kidding,Can you live off the land with a permit for..trapping,gun?

minnesotasmith
01-28-2008, 22:19
Warren Doyle's "system" of not much claimed direct expenditure on food, but with a support vehicle included, is easily a higher-budget hike than a $5000.00 unsupported/no-slackpacking hike, once the accounting is made honest.

I would have thought that someone who'd hiked as much as WD could get the TOTAL during-hike costs for doing a thruhike down to under 5 grand. I guess he just chooses to hike more expensively than most. (I personally chose during my thruhike to go high-end on gear and nontown food, but avoided taxis/hotels/recreational chemicals/pink-blazing, and slacked a minority of the Trail, so still ended up around the high end of average, IMO.)

Appalachian Tater
01-28-2008, 22:49
....a support vehicle included, is easily a higher-budget hike than a $5000.00 unsupported/no-slackpacking hike, once the accounting is made honest.

Not if you get a group together to pay for it so you don't have to.

Kinda like it says on the signs on the interstate: "Tour Bus Drivers Eat Free".

JAK
01-28-2008, 22:51
No kidding,Can you live off the land with a permit for..trapping,gun?What about carbohydrates?

minnesotasmith
01-28-2008, 23:15
Not if you get a group together to pay for it so you don't have to.

Whether WD pays for his hike personally, or someone else pays for (most of) it, the cost remains. It'd be analogous to some college-age idler born of parents as indulgent as they are wealthy who pay for his whole hike, and then claims he did a thruhike for nothing, for no cost at all. Maybe to him personally, but who'd agree he did a thruhike for no cost? Not me...

slow
01-28-2008, 23:39
What about carbohydrates?

We have no reg in FL that i know of...other than a gator,bald, to eat.
Dont know carb's in a coon,taste bad but always a full belly.:)

Appalachian Tater
01-28-2008, 23:42
Any tips on how I cannot run out of money?
I am planning several maildrops, but only around 8, I think. I have family and friends along the trail, so I can have people bring me stuff when they visit as well.
I plan on bringing my credit card, just in case. However, when I return, I plan on moving soon after and hate the idea of havng no money while doing that.
So, again, any suggestions? Thanks in advance! :)

Set aside money for when you get back before you leave. Figure your dollars/mile and keep track of that. If you find yourself spending faster than you're hiking, you'll need to spend less and that will require self-control. Once you get in a hole it would be hard to get out. Don't forget about replacing equipment or medical issues that might arise.

With postage rates where they now are, I do not believe that mail drops will save you money, and if you stop hiking, what will you do with all those poptarts???


Whether WD pays for his hike personally, or someone else pays for (most of) it, the cost remains. It'd be analogous to some college-age idler born of parents as indulgent as they are wealthy who pay for his whole hike, and then claims he did a thruhike for nothing, for no cost at all. Maybe to him personally, but who'd agree he did a thruhike for no cost? Not me...
You are 100% correct. Costs can be shifted or go unpaid but they are still incurred.

A-Train
01-28-2008, 23:45
Posts #66, 88 - insightful
Post #74 - Right on back to you!
Posts #61, 75 - The same old garbage.
Post #78 - All you have to say is my budget wouldn't work for you.

Answer to post #55

135 day unsupported thru-hike - $675 ($5 per day - $35 a week)

Typical week would have me going to/through two towns/stores a week

A day on the trail:

six Little Debbie brownies - $1.25

one mac & chesse - $.33

Total - $1.58 w/$3.42 cents left over x 5 trail days = $17.90 surplus over five days on the trail per week

This would give me $27.90 to spend in stores/restaurants along the way at an average of 2 stores/towns a week.

This for me is not unrealistic, however it is unusual but still doable.

On my 14-day, 2006 John Muir Trail backpack (without resupply), I ate four boxes of Little Debbie brownies - Total cost $10 for 14 days - $.72 a day for food.
I did spend about $10 for a meal when I finished at Whitney Portal. A grand total of $20 for 14 days of backpacking - $1.40 per day.
So $5 a day on the AT (135 days) is not unrealistic.

Have you ever hiked the whole trail on this exact diet and nothing else? Seems kinda hard to do. You'd really destroy your body, probably get really sick and wouldn't have enough energy/protein to sustain the miles.
Are you just thinking you could do it, or has it been done?

JAK
01-28-2008, 23:56
We have no reg in FL that i know of...other than a gator,bald, to eat.
Dont know carb's in a coon,taste bad but always a full belly.:)As I understand it the only significant carbs in game is the liver. Your body can convert some protiens to carbs, but too much of this is hard on the kidneys. It is an interesting subject and one I would like to study more; year round carbohydrate sources in traditional hunter/gatherer diets. It would certainly be cheap though, in theory, if you only had to buy cheap starch and sugar and could forage the rest.

Patrickjd9
01-29-2008, 00:30
A thru-hiker who ate nothing but packaged chemical-laden snack cakes and macaroni with artificial "cheese" sauce would be unlikely to complete the A.T. due to physical problems. There's almost no protein there.
Agreed for the most part, though someone under 30 could likely get away with it.

Critterman
01-29-2008, 09:42
Posts #66, 88 - insightful
Post #74 - Right on back to you!
Posts #61, 75 - The same old garbage.
Post #78 - All you have to say is my budget wouldn't work for you.

Answer to post #55

135 day unsupported thru-hike - $675 ($5 per day - $35 a week)

Typical week would have me going to/through two towns/stores a week

A day on the trail:

six Little Debbie brownies - $1.25

one mac & chesse - $.33

Total - $1.58 w/$3.42 cents left over x 5 trail days = $17.90 surplus over five days on the trail per week

This would give me $27.90 to spend in stores/restaurants along the way at an average of 2 stores/towns a week.

This for me is not unrealistic, however it is unusual but still doable.

On my 14-day, 2006 John Muir Trail backpack (without resupply), I ate four boxes of Little Debbie brownies - Total cost $10 for 14 days - $.72 a day for food.
I did spend about $10 for a meal when I finished at Whitney Portal. A grand total of $20 for 14 days of backpacking - $1.40 per day.
So $5 a day on the AT (135 days) is not unrealistic.

Do you plan to wipe with leaves and to cook your Mac on a wood fire you lit without matches or a Bic and prepare it without any oil, margarine etc.? Do you plan on treating your water? Please tell what store on the trail or else where sells Mac for $ 0.33 as I would like to buy some. Did you also figure in the cost of the food you will eat after your hike to replace the weight you will lose on your 2,400 calorie/day diet? Will you also be wearing the thrift store $5 sneakers and using the other budget equipment you suggested for a low cost hike?

Johnny Swank
01-29-2008, 12:00
I'll have the numbers for this coming up soon (within a few days if I can get a few hours away to crank away at data). Just eyeballing it, about $3500-4000 seems to be about average for on-trail expenses for the 2006 group of thru-hikers. Details will be on the www.sourcetosea.net site

warren doyle
01-29-2008, 12:35
Post #92 & 94 - More garbage (short of like all those recurring plastic bags of trash on the trail near Rt. 19E).

Post #93 - This is true. Why this is even being mentioned now in literary narratives on the trail - AT'05 Bill Walker's new book - Skywalker - (pp. 137-138)

Post #107 - More garbage from another internegator.
Post #108 - Ditto the above

Post #113 - A-Train - "Have you ever hiked the whole trail on this exact diet and nothing else? Seems kinda hard to do. You'd really destroy your body, probably get really sick and wouldn't have enough energy/protein to sustain the miles.
Are you just thinking you could do it, or has it been done?"

As I said, I backpacked the John Muir Trail in 2006 in 14 days eating almost nothing else but little Debbie Brownies.

In the early circle expeditions (1975; 1977; 1980) most members were budget-strapped college students. The trek back then was 109-110 days (van-supported). We had at least one member buy $22 of mac & cheese dinners (generic brand - 5 for $1.00) to cover 110 suppers. As I mentioned in a previous post, on the AT I would be able to eat at grocery stores/restaurants at least two out of seven days.
John Muir had a very simple diet. And sometimes it is just a mindset - I'm out on the trail to walk, not necessarily to cook/eat.

If I was to backpack the trail now this is how my diet would look like (at $5 a day for food - not including multi-vitamin pill supplement):

#1 Springer to just past Woody Gap 20.0 miles
Food cost: $2 plus sales tax for McDonald's breakfast ( 2 for 2 special) four Little Debbie brownies $1 (Total - $3) +$2.00

#2 Woody Gap to just past Hogpen Gap 17.0 miles
Food: six Little Debbie brownies (Total - $1.50) +$5.50

#3 Hogpen Gap to Tray Mt. area 18.0 miles
Food: six Little Debbie brownies (Total - $1.50) +$9.00

#4 Tray Mt. to Cowart Gap 12.5 miles
Food: two Little Debbie brownies = $.50
Hiawassee - Daniels AYCE (2 hour food gorgy) = $10.00
(Total - $10.50)

Total cost of food for four days = $16.50 (four day budget = $20)

At a $5 a day food budget that would give me a surplus of $3.50 that I would build on the next two days until I ate an AYCE in Franklin.

I would go on and on like that - stopping in towns at least twice a week to eat and buy more Little Debbies. I would camp for free right before the town or right after the town.

I would use streams to wash my clothes and myself (without soap of course).

Places I would eat: Wesser; Gatlinburg; Newport; Hot Springs; Erwin; Elk Park; Hampton; Damascus; Groseclose; Bland; Pearisburg....(you get the idea).

Yessiree, $5 a day would work for me.

As I tell (warn) people at the Appalachian Trail Institute and the Circle Expeditions, I am not a good infomation source for equipment, clothing and food. I freely admit that I am way off the normal bell curve in these areas due to my frugality, minimalism and level of comfort either when I hike with vehicle support or when I backpack without vehicle support.

This thread is entitled 'Thru-hike cost?'. I gave my opinion of what works for me, not necessarily everyone else. People have to choose what they will feel comfortable with. As an educator, I want people to know of the wide range of possibilities they can choose from.

It is good to see some posters say that they have done the trail economically as well because I do see a few folks out there that are on a budget who have the discipline to keep to it and still seem to have an enjoyable time.


Critterman #116 "Do you plan to wipe with leaves and to cook your Mac on a wood fire you lit without matches or a Bic and prepare it without any oil, margarine etc.? Do you plan on treating your water? Please tell what store on the trail or else where sells Mac for $ 0.33 as I would like to buy some. Did you also figure in the cost of the food you will eat after your hike to replace the weight you will lose on your 2,400 calorie/day diet? Will you also be wearing the thrift store $5 sneakers and using the other budget equipment you suggested for a low cost hike?

I wipe with the napkins and toilet paper from the restaurants/convenience stores I visit. I only eat cold food on the trail. I don't treat my water and never will. Generic brand mac & cheese can still be bought at this price. I was at a flea market where they were selling Cliff Bars 10 for a $1. Of course they were outdated, but so am I in a way. I don't subscribe to the 2,400 calorie/day diet. I try to flow efficiently through the forest. I would be wearing $5 or less thrift store sneakers and using the other equipment that I listed in my previous post.

Please realize that I was a somewhat 'normal' backpacker on my first LT end-to-end and backpacker/hiker on my first AT thru-hike. It took me about 4,000 miles of backpacking/hiking to get me to this level. I've enjoyed the 26,000 miles of backpacking/hiking I've done since then under this system.

Critterman
01-29-2008, 14:40
I wipe with the napkins and toilet paper from the restaurants/convenience stores I visit. I only eat cold food on the trail. I don't treat my water and never will. Generic brand mac & cheese can still be bought at this price. I was at a flea market where they were selling Cliff Bars 10 for a $1. Of course they were outdated, but so am I in a way. I don't subscribe to the 2,400 calorie/day diet. I try to flow efficiently through the forest. I would be wearing $5 or less thrift store sneakers and using the other equipment that I listed in my previous post.......

How do you prepare Mac&cheese without cooking? The 2,400 calories is the 6 little debbies ( 270x6=1620 calories) and Mac&cheese without oil etc. (780calories) that you mentioned before as your preferred hiker diet. Do you expect to find a lot of flea markets to resupply from along the trail? When do you expect to flow efficiently through the forest on this budget through hike ? I think we could all learn from your attempt.

dessertrat
01-29-2008, 14:43
Agreed for the most part, though someone under 30 could likely get away with it.

Throw in some tuna and peanut butter, probably fine.

warren doyle
01-29-2008, 15:15
When I backpack now, I just eat cold food.
I already flow through the forest efficiently.
I walk smart, not strong.
I walk within my capabilities.
I don't try to keep up with people.
Neither will I follow someone who is slower than me going downhill.
I like to walk from dawn to dusk.

My one-page book can be downloaded free from the website below.

Jack Tarlin
01-29-2008, 15:21
This conversation is getting ridiculous.

Quick question to Mr. Doyle: When you say that you can thru-hike on a thousand bucks, does this include expenses for your vehicle?

I mean, gas, oil, etc. are indeed "en route" expenses.

If your driver and support people go thru only a gallon or two a day while driving around the countryside running your errands and meeting you at road crossings, this adds up to hundreds and hundreds of dollars in expenses over the course of your trip.

In other words, your "$1000.00" budget is ridiculous. You obviously spend much more than this on your travels.

Unless of course, other people's speculation is correct, and the expenses for your vehicular support is actually paid by other folks. In that you just admitted to stealing paper goods from restaurants to save buying your own toilet paper, you've probably figured out a way to have other people pay for your gasoline. :D

Dazzy001
01-29-2008, 16:19
I think you should look at $12 @ 180 days out, gives you something like $2160 + re-supplies.

just a thought..

warren doyle
01-29-2008, 16:24
And now we have ridiculous garbage.

As was stated on pp. 196-197 in Skywalker.

Critterman
01-29-2008, 17:11
When I backpack now, I just eat cold food.
I already flow through the forest efficiently.
I walk smart, not strong.
I walk within my capabilities.
I don't try to keep up with people.
Neither will I follow someone who is slower than me going downhill.
I like to walk from dawn to dusk.

My one-page book can be downloaded free from the website below.

I believe I have learned all I need to know about your hiking wisdom from your non answers right here.

Kirby
01-29-2008, 18:01
I plan on having enough money to get from GA to ME safely.

Kirby

A-Train
01-29-2008, 18:24
When I backpack now, I just eat cold food.
I already flow through the forest efficiently.
I walk smart, not strong.
I walk within my capabilities.
I don't try to keep up with people.
Neither will I follow someone who is slower than me going downhill.
I like to walk from dawn to dusk.

My one-page book can be downloaded free from the website below.

IMO, just because you did it for 14 days on the JMT doesn't mean you could sustain it for 4-5 months on an AT thru-hike. So I ask again, have you ever hiked the whole AT in one shot doing it on your proposed budget? Otherwise you could theoretically do it for less, but it wouldn't matter if you haven't actually executed it. Kinda like saying you can hike the AT in 30 days...

Jack Tarlin
01-29-2008, 18:31
Don't expect anything remotely resembling a forthright answer, A-Train, at least not about real expenses, vehicle costs, etc.

Mr. Doyle's method of operations is to dodge unpleasant or uncomrtable questions, and to refer to them repeatedly as "garbage."

But to simply answer these simple, direct questions?

No, it rarely happens.

Evidently, Mr. Doyle finds answering these questions even more uncomfortable than being asked them.

Critterman
01-29-2008, 18:50
Don't expect anything remotely resembling a forthright answer, A-Train, at least not about real expenses, vehicle costs, etc.............

I don't think he knows the answers about expenses. I would surprised if he even does any logistical work on his own hikes judging by what he has said here. He may set overall plans for milage etc but i bet someone else actually does the work of buying supplies, arranging places to stay, etc.

Lone Wolf
01-29-2008, 18:50
warren can say "the sky is blue" and some of you will start picking the panties outa yer ass! :D goddam some of you are easy :rolleyes:

Jack Tarlin
01-29-2008, 18:55
Oh, for heaven's sake, stop being such a suckass, Wolf.

The guy has been asked very simple, very pointed questions.

It's pretty obvious he simply doesn't wanna answer them.

But it's cute watching you pucker up a good wet one and plant it on his butt every time someone deigns to actually ask him to explain himself. :D

Lone Wolf
01-29-2008, 18:59
rationalize, theorize and explain all you want but you are absolutely obsessed with warren. he plays you like a fool. and you fall for it every time. at least your buddies fhart, tj and tater don't play anymore. get'em warren! :D:banana


and your cute way of trying to piss me off by saying i'm a suckass, i pucker, etc., etc. don't work. everybody but you knows i kiss nobody's ass cept gypsy's so try somethin' else. don't it hurt your heart and cause you stress to feel such hatred and disdain for another hiker? help is available. just ask :)

Jack Tarlin
01-29-2008, 19:06
Pucker up, kewpie. :D

Lone Wolf
01-29-2008, 19:12
Pucker up, kewpie. :D

why do you keep telling us what wingfoot used to tell you?:eek:

Jack Tarlin
01-29-2008, 19:20
For heaven's sake, Wolf, this is a silly argument.

Yeah, I can indeed be reliably depended on to comment when Mr. Doyle says something questionable.

And you can be just as reliably dependable when it comes to springing to his rescue, regardless of what he has said, or stated, regardless of what question he's been asked, or what question he's ducking away from.

In your own way, when it comes to this individual, Wolf, you're as reliable as I am.

It works like this:

I call him out when I see him stating outrageous or ridiculous things.

And then you call me out for doing so.

And you and I go back and forth for awhile.

And at the end of the day, he still never explains his comments or answers the simple questions sent his way.

Well, at least he's as reliable, Wolf, as you and I seem to be.

Lone Wolf
01-29-2008, 19:47
he and i have a sense of humor. you don't O serious, anal, obsessed one :D

Appalachian Tater
01-29-2008, 20:38
My one-page book can be downloaded free from the website below.

Dude, a "one-page book" isn't a book. Apparently if you eat enough Little Debbie "treats" your mind starts to play tricks on you and you can convince yourself of all sorts of things contrary to reality.

Marta
01-29-2008, 20:54
...everybody but you knows i kiss nobody's ass cept gypsy's ...:)

Thanks for the laugh!

Frosty
01-29-2008, 21:32
Dude, a "one-page book" isn't a book. a. a set of rules, conventions, or standards: The solution was not according to the book but it served the purpose.

My post might not be by the book, but I have to book it before a cop books me for making book and you flame me with a book of matches.

warren doyle
01-29-2008, 22:50
A-train post #127 - I haven't backpacked the entire AT in 135 days with a $5 a day budget. However, I have no doubt (right now) that I could backpack the entire AT in 135 days with a $5 a day budget.

Also, I know I couldn't hike the AT in 30 days or 70 days for that matter.

I know what I can do and not do when it comes to hiking and spending money.

#129 - You know very little about how I walk the AT.

#132 - Insightful
#136 - Insightful (yet again)

#130 - Okay. I'll try it. "The sky is blue!"

CrumbSnatcher
01-29-2008, 23:06
how long was the trail (in miles)when ward leonard set the HIKING speed record of 60.5 days. and any idea how much he would spend on a thru hike. thought i'd ask in this thread-all the big dogs are runnin' here! thanks crumb

CrumbSnatcher
01-29-2008, 23:07
Unsupported Hike

warren doyle
01-29-2008, 23:09
The trail might have been from 20-30 miles shorter.
Didn't know his spending habits. I don't think he paid for indoor lodging much.

CrumbSnatcher
01-29-2008, 23:10
Was That 1990 Or ?

Lone Wolf
01-29-2008, 23:11
yes 1990

CrumbSnatcher
01-29-2008, 23:18
Does Ward Leonard Hold The Unsupported Yo-yo Record Also.

minnesotasmith
01-29-2008, 23:19
Please do us all the favor of adding in the depreciation, insurance, maintenance, registration, gasoline, and time value for your support driver (well above minimum wage, going by ads for them), including time your SD spends waiting around for you. With that, what is your REAL per-day hiking cost?

I spent well over a grand on slackpacking on my thruhike in '06, and did probably under 20% of the Trail that way. That could easily add 5 grand to your hike costs. Til you provide your own figures, I'd say that's a reasonable estimate to add in.

rafe
01-29-2008, 23:25
how long was the trail (in miles)when ward leonard set the HIKING speed record of 60.5 days. and any idea how much he would spend on a thru hike. thought i'd ask in this thread-all the big dogs are runnin' here! thanks crumb

The 1990 Data Book (from ATC, by Daniel Chazin) gives the length of the trail as 2142.8 miles. I couldn't begin to tell you what Ward spent on his hike(s). The scuttlebutt I heard was that he was from a well-to-do family. The family probably figured it was better to have him on the trail than putting him into an institution.

warren doyle
01-29-2008, 23:27
It would be safe to assume that Ward holds the unsupported record for an AT yo-yo.

MuddyBugger
01-29-2008, 23:33
Wow a real pissing match!! Anyway......If Warren isn't getting paid or at least sponsered by Little Debbie, then he should.

Here's an idea.... well before you leave try to hike a good 10 miles or so a day(yeah I know you'll probably do more on the trail). See what your appetite does and what you will need roughly in food supplies to get you through. Add in enough to get you through any equipment failures, at least a few comfy nights in motel/hostel and more good meals/snacks a week. Be honest about your usual needs. !POOF! You have a place to start that is catered more to you and not someone else's idea of what it will cost.

Thanks for starting the thread though....it was "insightful".

Rockhound
01-29-2008, 23:35
$4000 total (after gear) is a good estimate & enough to have a great time along the way. less $ if you're a ramen noodle type hiker & more if you're a mountain house type hiker. less if you don't take too many zeros in trail towns. more if you stay at a hotel or hostel every 30 miles

CrumbSnatcher
01-29-2008, 23:52
Hey Wolf The Records 60.5. What If Someone Else Matched Ward Leonards Time Exactly But The Trail Is Now 30.0+ Miles Longer. How Would That Work, Are They Tied Or What. Last Post Gotta Get Up Early And Lay Some Brick For The Man. Thanks To All That Respond.

minnesotasmith
01-30-2008, 01:01
It would be safe to assume that Ward holds the unsupported record for an AT yo-yo.

Warren Doyle is a contender, perhaps even the record holder, for public underestimation of how much his thruhiking actually costs. As I have shown, he actually seems to be running around 6 grand a thruhike, even with the filched goods and services.

warren doyle
01-30-2008, 09:34
What this internegator with a reading comprehension problem doesn't seem to realize is this:

The basic theme behind all my posts on this particular thread is stating how much it would cost me if I was to do a 135-day unsupported thru-hike of the Appalachian Trail at this time of my life.

Although he hasn't been on the trail scene for too many years, he definitely ranks high on my internegator list especially with his audacious and fascistic post stating that I should be banned from the trail.

Lone Wolf
01-30-2008, 09:36
who thinks you should be banned?

warren doyle
01-30-2008, 09:46
As I stated, poster #153.

minnesotasmith
01-30-2008, 12:08
Obviously the English language (what he knows of it, the language with the largest vocabulary in the world) obviously isn't expressive enough for him. I thought he had an earned Ph.D., albeit in fuzzy studies? Must have heard wrong.

As he didn't define this word, as a public service I will do so:

"Someone who has seen thru Warren Doyle, who understands how unethical and bad for the AT he is in every way, who looks forward to the day Doyle is forgotten like a minor case of food poisoning 20 years back, and whose points Doyle can't begin to refute"

That thus certainly makes me a proud "int*rn*g*tor". ;)
============================
BTW, Warren, supposedly your thruhiking experience is largely limited to closely supported thruhiking. That would mean you have little or no direct experience with unsupported thruhiking. Why do you think you would know much about this subject? I think you should defer on this subject to people like Baltimore Jack who have far more relevant trail mile experience. Notably, Baltimore Jack, based directly on his first-hand experience, substantially disagrees with your guess as to how much an unsupported thruhike can be expected to cost.

A-Train
01-30-2008, 12:18
Obviously the English language (what he knows of it, the language with the largest vocabulary in the world) obviously isn't expressive enough for him. I thought he had an earned Ph.D., albeit in fuzzy studies? Must have heard wrong.

As he didn't define this word, as a public service I will do so:

"Someone who has seen thru Warren Doyle, who understands how unethical and bad for the AT he is in every way, who looks forward to the day Doyle is forgotten like a minor case of food poisoning 20 years back, and whose points Doyle can't begin to refute"

That thus certainly makes me a proud "int*rn*g*tor". ;)
============================
BTW, Warren, supposedly your thruhiking experience is largely limited to closely supported thruhiking. That would mean you have little or no direct experience with unsupported thruhiking. Why do you think you would know much about this subject? I think you should defer on this subject to people like Baltimore Jack who have far more relevant trail mile experience. Notably, Baltimore Jack, based directly on his first-hand experience, substantially disagrees with your guess as to how much an unsupported thruhike can be expected to cost.

Doyle's point was he thought he could do it on that budget, not that he has (which he's indirectly admitted). To say he's bad for the AT in every way is ignorant. You have no idea what you're talking about.

Some people are too threatened by folks who think outside the conventional box. I think some things Warren does are assinine, but I respect his creativity, and ability to live his life without the approval of others.

warren doyle
01-30-2008, 13:03
Doyle's point was he thought he could do it on that budget, not that he has (which he's indirectly admitted). To say he's bad for the AT in every way is ignorant. You have no idea what you're talking about.

Some people are too threatened by folks who think outside the conventional box. I think some things Warren does are assinine, but I respect his creativity, and ability to live his life without the approval of others.

Very insightful post. I appreciate rational logic.

I'd rather not be indirect though so how is this?

"I have never thru-hiked the AT in 135 days without vehicle support with a $5 a day budget but I know I could do this."

I base this claim on my backpacking unsupported the LT end-to-end in 1972 in 13 days; averaging 30+ miles a day backpacking unsupported the AT in 1973 (from Springer to Cloverdale/Dalevile and from Grafton Notch toKatahdin); backpacking unsupported the LT end-to-end in 8.3 days in 1978 and another unsupported LT end-to-end in 16 days in 1978; backpacking unsupported the John Muir Trail in 1979 and 2006, both in 14 days or less; backpacking unsupported the Wonderland Trail in 1979 and the Pennine Way in 1981; and also backpacking unsupported many one-to-two week AT section hikes from 1972-2001. And this doesn't even include the numerous 2-3 day backpacking weekends I have completed from 1968 until the present.

And those are the facts to offset the misinformed myths created by some of the internegators.

My window of opportunity to hike this summer should be from mid-July to mid-August. If backpacking 'one on two' (internegators) would be a way to silence these myth perpetrators once and for all, I would gladly welcome the challenge.
The sections of the AT that I still have to do for my 15th traverse are:

Grafton Notch to Gentian Pond

Carter Notch to Gorham

Pinkham Notch to Kinsman Notch (an uninterrupted stretch of 70 miles)

Connecticut River to Rt. 11/30 (95 miles)

Hudson River to Rt. 309 (159 miles)

Rt. 522 to Rockfish Gap (107 miles)


I find it interesting that in the latest book narrative of an AT thru-hike, that one of the main internegators ( and charter member of the Holy Trinity) is described as:

"The amateur Freud in me couldn't help but wonder if it all wasn't linked: eight thru-hikes in nine years, heavy drinker, chain-smoker, fixation on Jeopardy trivia, obsession with Warren Doyle. A classic addictive personality.
He had joked, "I'm a drunk with a hiking problem." Humor was his saving grace."

Appalachian Tater
01-30-2008, 13:08
"I have never thru-hiked the AT in 135 days without vehicle support with a $5 a day budget but I know I could do this."

You and WildCowboy would make great hiking buddies. Both of you live in Fantasy Land.

warren doyle
01-30-2008, 13:12
Expected response.

Lone Wolf
01-30-2008, 13:39
all the internegators are back :)

warren doyle
01-30-2008, 13:46
Not yet.

And I don't expect them to be all back either. It seems that a few have backed off with their name-calling, akin to character assassination, techniques.

I'd rather not have to resort to 'The best way to stop a cat from pooping on your floor is to rub their face in it.' response pattern.

But how much poop can an individual take?

warraghiyagey
01-30-2008, 13:48
But how much poop can an individual take?
At least one a day if they're healthy?:rolleyes::p

The Old Fhart
01-30-2008, 14:15
Minnesotasmith's definition of 'internegator' -"Someone who has seen thru Warren Doyle, who understands how unethical and bad for the AT he is in every way, who looks forward to the day Doyle is forgotten like a minor case of food poisoning 20 years back, and whose points Doyle can't begin to refute"ALDHA has seen through Warren as has Baxter, the USFS, WB(can you say 'moderated status'?:D), and many others. For Warren to say that "a few have backed off with their name-calling, akin to character assassination" when he persists in referring to the ever growing number who point out his criminal and unethical activities as "internegators" is both hypocritical and pathetic.

What he mistakingly construes as "character assassination" is pointing out actual character flaws or sociopathic tendencies. I suspect the response to this will have the words 'trinity', 'internegator', 'Bozo', 'expected response', 'WMD':rolleyes:, or reference some previous post numbers.:D

Appalachian Tater
01-30-2008, 14:28
Post #163, more garbage, as usual.
Post #164, the appropriate & correct response.
Post #165, quite insightful.

Lone Wolf
01-30-2008, 14:30
they're comin' outa the woodwork, warren :)

The Old Fhart
01-30-2008, 14:32
Lone Wolf-"they're comin' outa the woodwork, warren:)"Ah, we still have one shill left!;)

Lone Wolf
01-30-2008, 14:34
Ah, we still have one shill left!;)

jack'll be along soon

Critterman
01-30-2008, 14:47
You and WildCowboy would make great hiking buddies. Both of you live in Fantasy Land.

Make that Little Debbie land. He is an odd one.

Lone Wolf
01-30-2008, 14:48
Make that Little Debbie land. He is an odd one.

Tater is the queer one

bfitz
01-30-2008, 14:55
Although, I'm sure folks like Doyle have many friends up and down the trail who will provide occasional rides and lodging as a favor as do many other frequent hikers, 5 dollars a day isn't even enough for food, not to mention gear, potential gear maintenance, occasional lodging, any form of diversion or entertainment whatsoever. I know the man carries around some extra weight, but you still need actual food for energy, and not all hikers have a spare tire sufficient to the task. It is a disservice to those considering a thru-hike to promote the thinking that they can get it done on $1000. I know many who have had this illusion and suffered from it. I'm currently trying to convince another person that they need to save more money. I know it can be done an very little money and the limit varies from person to person, but with that small a budget one disaster or unexpected expense or gear replacement issue can send you home. Being considered an authority imparts a certain responsibility to provide good guidance, and Mr. Doyle, while he may be hypnotic to watch on the dance floor, is being irresponsible to those who look to him for such guidance. That's wrong. Maybe with al his connections, experience, knowledge of the trail's resources, and theft of service tricks WD could pull it off. MAYBE. But he'd be miserable, and so will you if you try it. If you can raise $1000 bucks you can raise $2000 bucks in twice the time. Do that and have a chance of finishing. 5 or 6 k would be better yet.

The Old Fhart
01-30-2008, 15:03
Very, very well put Bfitz. That deserves a dancin'(not 'contra')banana.:banana

Appalachian Tater
01-30-2008, 15:17
5 dollars a day isn't even enough for food

Not even if you "flow through the forest efficiently"?

A-Train
01-30-2008, 15:24
Very insightful post. I appreciate rational logic.

I'd rather not be indirect though so how is this?

"I have never thru-hiked the AT in 135 days without vehicle support with a $5 a day budget but I know I could do this."

I base this claim on my backpacking unsupported the LT end-to-end in 1972 in 13 days; averaging 30+ miles a day backpacking unsupported the AT in 1973 (from Springer to Cloverdale/Dalevile and from Grafton Notch toKatahdin); backpacking unsupported the LT end-to-end in 8.3 days in 1978 and another unsupported LT end-to-end in 16 days in 1978; backpacking unsupported the John Muir Trail in 1979 and 2006, both in 14 days or less; backpacking unsupported the Wonderland Trail in 1979 and the Pennine Way in 1981; and also backpacking unsupported many one-to-two week AT section hikes from 1972-2001. And this doesn't even include the numerous 2-3 day backpacking weekends I have completed from 1968 until the present.

And those are the facts to offset the misinformed myths created by some of the internegators.

My window of opportunity to hike this summer should be from mid-July to mid-August. If backpacking 'one on two' (internegators) would be a way to silence these myth perpetrators once and for all, I would gladly welcome the challenge.
The sections of the AT that I still have to do for my 15th traverse are:

Grafton Notch to Gentian Pond

Carter Notch to Gorham

Pinkham Notch to Kinsman Notch (an uninterrupted stretch of 70 miles)

Connecticut River to Rt. 11/30 (95 miles)

Hudson River to Rt. 309 (159 miles)

Rt. 522 to Rockfish Gap (107 miles)


I find it interesting that in the latest book narrative of an AT thru-hike, that one of the main internegators ( and charter member of the Holy Trinity) is described as:

"The amateur Freud in me couldn't help but wonder if it all wasn't linked: eight thru-hikes in nine years, heavy drinker, chain-smoker, fixation on Jeopardy trivia, obsession with Warren Doyle. A classic addictive personality.
He had joked, "I'm a drunk with a hiking problem." Humor was his saving grace."

What hiking book narrative are you referencing? Please share.

bfitz
01-30-2008, 15:31
Hmmmm....well the amateur Freud in me can find a lot to say about every hiker I've ever met. For the outdoors/asylum experince of a lifetime one need look no farther than the AT in springtime.

Frosty
01-30-2008, 15:34
Some people are too threatened by folks who think outside the conventional box. I think some things Warren does are assinine, but I respect his creativity, and ability to live his life without the approval of others.One of the things that continues to amaze me is how lock-step some folks in the hiker community can be. I tend to romanticize thru-hikers are rebels, those who step outside the expected norms, who go on a vision quest, or discovery exploration, or walk-about, or whatever you want to call it.

I would expect such people to embrace diversity, but wow - how different is the reality. "Hike your own hike, BUT ..." is the watchword of the day. If you hike with too heavy a pack, you are doing it wrong. Ditto for too light a pack as in slackpacking. Purists are anal. If you hike over Eisenhower instead of around it, you haven't hiked the AT. You must ford the Kennebeck. You must not ford the Kennebeck because 20 years ago someone drowned. You need to be armed because a handful of people were murdered on the AT. The best thing about a town stop is the first ice-cold beer. You must not drink because someone got drunk and passed out on RR tracks and died. If you walk too many hours a day you can't enjoy a hike. Ditto if you only hike 10 miles a day and spend hours daily hanging around shelters.

While I think it is good to point out the difficulty of some attempts, such a new hiker who wants to hike Maine in February, or that guy who wants to average 75 miles a day, why is it so important to bicker about slackpacking, blue blazing, how little another hiker can spend and still thruhike, how much they can spend if they want to and have the money, and of course guns/dogs/cell phones/GPSs/MP3 players.

rcli4
01-30-2008, 17:26
I read that passage about Jack somewhere in a book. Can't remember where but it is legit. Everyone is fussing at Warren for no good reason. READ his post #159. He is using numbers from 25-30 years ago. They were probably accurate at that time. I don't agree with Mr. M Smith very often but Warren's way of hiking the trail is hurtful to the trail. If you look at it like most people use for anything that effects the trail. What if every one done it that way. 50 vans at every trailhead. Every theater along the trail would go out of business.

Frosty---HYOH means anyway is ok as long as it is my way.

Clyde

rafe
01-30-2008, 17:53
I read that passage about Jack somewhere in a book. Can't remember where but it is legit. Everyone is fussing at Warren for no good reason. READ his post #159. He is using numbers from 25-30 years ago.

That would make sense. I traveled for months thru Europe in the early 1970s on about six bucks a day. (I still have the diary where I recorded the daily expenses.) Figure at least 5x inflation between then and now.

I was thinking about this last week, when my wife and I blew about $3K on a luxurious one-week vacation in Cancun. ;)

minnesotasmith
01-30-2008, 18:39
Warren's numbers are such that one would expect the source to be unable to do 2nd-grade math or a deliberate, malicious liar. Any newbie would-be thruhiker that took them seriously would likely screw up his hike, and deserves better info from this site. THAT is the issue with the people calling him on it, not whether they go by HYOH or not.

CrumbSnatcher
01-30-2008, 19:07
The Records 60.5. What If Someone Else Matched Ward Leonards Time Exactly But The Trail Is Now 30.0+ Miles Longer. How Would That Work, Are They Tied Or What. Last Post Gotta Get Up Early And Lay Some Brick For The Man. Thanks To All That Respond. :banana

warren doyle
01-30-2008, 19:13
Ah, where to begin?

Holy Trinity = 1 Criminal, unethical, hypocritical and pathetic sociopath= 0

I guess I'll have to bring a copy of post #165 to the ALDHA steering committee meeting to see what they think.

post #172 - 'hypnotic' - now I like that!

A-Train post #175:
"What hiking book narrative are you referencing? Please share."

Skywalker: Close Encounters on the Appalachian Trail by Bill Walker AT05
2008 Indigo Publishing Group 866-311-9578
ISBN 978-1-934144-26-8
ISBN 1-934144-26-6

post #178 - Once again, if I was to do a 135-day thru-hike unsupported in 2008 I would be able to do it on a $5 a day budget between the time I step off from Springer until I reach the summit of Katahdin.
As I stated before, the vast majority of thru-hikers would not want to do this. And that is fine. However, I do want to share that this option, though unusual and unrealistic in most eyes, can be accomplished. I gave a sample of how my first week of hiking costs would be in a previous post.
Also, I don't really movie stealth during a thru-hike or a section-hike. There aren't many movie theatres adjacent to the trail (Hanover being the closest). The only movie theatre that I have stealthed while on a hike was one of the mall multiplexes in Allentown, PA. I have stealthed that twice.
The biggest sacrifices I would have to make on a $5 a day budget would be drastically reducing the number of high-end half gallons of ice cream I can have (my personal thru-hike record is 20) and the number of contra dances I could attend along the way, unless I volunteered to sweep the floor after the dance was over in exchange for free admission. (personal thru-hike record is also 20).

warren doyle
01-30-2008, 19:18
Internegator = 1 2nd grade math droput and/or deliberate, malicious liar= 0

Gee, I hope my conscience will allow me to sleep soundly tonight. I feel this hope will be realized.

slow
01-30-2008, 19:19
You and WildCowboy would make great hiking buddies. Both of you live in Fantasy Land.

Fantasy is when ...held on a high point on the board from?BUT YOU LOST,and try to clean it up,and they bite.:D

HighlanderII
01-30-2008, 19:31
I may have said this before but my hike in 2003 cost me a little over $10/day for food and a little over $14/day for food and lodging (unsupported hike). The food was standard trail fare, Liptons, mashed potatoes, rice, cheese, crackers, butter, bread, granola, honey, powered milk plus some meals in town when I was there. I don't drink alcohol so that was not a cost for me.

I boaght all my gear prior to my hike and had one one-the-trail replacement of a backpack hipbelt and one of a broken tent which the vendors replaced for free. I changed no gear on the trail, although I had prior long distance hiking experience so knew what to expect.

For a 135 day trip, this would add up to $1364 for food and $1906 for food and lodging.

I could have done the trip for less (lodging, not necessarily foodwise) but didn't need to. My style of hiking is to not spend lots of time in the towns as that's not why I'm on the trail. Other people's results might not be the same using the same budget.

Appalachian Tater
01-30-2008, 19:35
Post #180, once again very insightful.
Post #182, more self-deluded garbage, as usual.
Post #183, you would be to keep a running tally instead of just calling each point if you had graduated elementary school.
Post #184, at least your post makes sense compared to the two preceding.
Post #185, if you were able to "flow through the forest efficiently", you could survive on six Little Debbie Brownies and some 3-for-$1 mac & "cheese" supplemented with table scraps and stale popcorn.

rafe
01-30-2008, 19:36
I believe a $5/day thru-hike -- even in 2008 -- is quite possible. Not much fun (nor anything I'd like to try) but quite possible.

Lilred
01-30-2008, 19:37
http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/ad/popcorn.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org)

HighlanderII
01-30-2008, 19:38
I didn't realize that the hikers of today still knew who Ward is/was.

He was quite a hiker back in the day -- maybe he still is. He was a little different but it seems like all the trail legends have their quirks.

Most people (probably even most thru-hikers) would question why someone would hike the trail more than once...

rafe
01-30-2008, 19:39
I didn't realize that the hikers of today still knew who Ward is/was.

Some of us have been around for a while. ;)

HighlanderII
01-30-2008, 19:42
Yeah, if I could flow through the forest that well, I'd be able to do 60+ mile days and break whatever the current unsupported yo-yo record is for the AT.

The last time I tried, I found my limit at around 35's but that was pre-broken leg and several years ago. Who knows what I could do now...

Lone Wolf
01-30-2008, 20:00
:banana i love comin' home from dot's and readin' this stuff :banana

warren doyle
01-30-2008, 20:11
Terrapin post #180 - Yes, it is possible. For myself, I think that it is a fun challenge to see how cheaply/frugally/economically I can move through life.
I don't want to be indentured to anyone except myself and my loved ones. And it sure makes the future threat of reduced socal security benefits much less frightening.

'Healthy, free, the long brown path before me leading wherever I choose.
Henceforth, I ask not good fortune; I , myself , am good fortune.
Henceforth, I whimper no more, postpone no more; I need nothing.'
Whitman

Two appropriate bumperstickers:

The best things in life aren't things.

The more I know, the less I need.

Happy, frugal trails!
Warren

warren doyle
01-30-2008, 20:12
oops! I meant Terrapin post #187

The Old Fhart
01-30-2008, 20:43
The Old Fhart(post #165)-"...ALDHA has seen through Warren as has Baxter, the USFS, WB(can you say 'moderated status'?:D), and many others. For Warren to say that "a few have backed off with their name-calling, akin to character assassination" when he persists in referring to the ever growing number who point out his criminal and unethical activities as "internegators" is both hypocritical and pathetic.

What he mistakingly construes as "character assassination" is pointing out actual character flaws or sociopathic tendencies. I suspect the response to this will have the words 'trinity', 'internegator', 'Bozo', 'expected response', 'WMD':rolleyes:, or reference some previous post numbers.:D
WD-"...I guess I'll have to bring a copy of post #165 to the ALDHA steering committee meeting to see what they think."Oh please do. I'd love to see the reaction after they(or we:D) stop laughing!


WD-"oops! I meant Terrapin post #187"If you were a donating member of WhiteBlaze, rather than just a 'user', you could edit. But then, neither the trail or WB can expect any positive contributions from some people.:rolleyes:

Kirby
01-30-2008, 20:46
This thread is tumbling in turmoil, and clearly going no where, but Wolf is right, this makes great entertainment.

Let me try to sum this thread up"
*Warren believes thru-hiking can be done for $1,000.00
*A vast majority of everyone else believes he is full of ****
*Wolf and myself are in the midsts of making popcorn before the main feature starts.

Kirby

Critterman
01-30-2008, 20:49
I read that passage about Jack somewhere in a book. Can't remember where but it is legit. Everyone is fussing at Warren for no good reason. READ his post #159. He is using numbers from 25-30 years ago. They were probably accurate at that time. ...............

He mentions backpacking in 2006 and eating the Little Debbie Diet. He is just out of touch with the real world. It could be that he is lost in the good old days. I think it is sad and pathetic that he keeps embarrassing himself with all this crazy stuff. Anybody could do the trail on $5/day but it is like poking yourself in the eye, why would you want to and what would it prove?

Lone Wolf
01-30-2008, 20:58
He mentions backpacking in 2006 and eating the Little Debbie Diet. He is just out of touch with the real world. It could be that he is lost in the good old days. I think it is sad and pathetic that he keeps embarrassing himself with all this crazy stuff. Anybody could do the trail on $5/day but it is like poking yourself in the eye, why would you want to and what would it prove?

you don't know warren. hell, i don't know warren totally. but have been acquainted with him for damn near 20 years. you pups have no idea. :D if you really didn't like him you'd put him on IGNORE. but you LOVE to hear what he has to say next. :)

JAK
01-30-2008, 20:59
It would be interesting to see what the record might be for the most frugal thru-hike on the various trails. I think it would be just as noble an endeavour as speed records and such, depending on how it was done. I think it would be the sort of record probably best kept private however. Frugality and simple living are virtues that seems to be counter-culture, and so many people like to confuse it with various vices, which it is not. I don't see why Little Debbies keep coming up. What do they have to do with frugality?

Frugality is a virtue. Endeavours like a thru-hike can be virtuous.
Why do people have such a problem with mixing the two?

rafe
01-30-2008, 21:01
*A vast majority of everyone else believes he is full of ****

What the "vast majority" believe is irrelevant, in this case. As I said earlier -- I believe it's possible, though it's not something I'd ever want to try, nor do I believe it would be much fun at all.

And when I say "possible" I'll state, at the outset, a whole raft of conditions and constraints, eg., $5/day does NOT cover transportation to/from the trail, emergencies of any sort, equipment failures, shuttles, motels, entertainment, restaurant meals, etc.

$5/day might provide basic, minimal subsistence, and not much else. If there were any comfort at all, it would probably come from charity.

JAK
01-30-2008, 21:09
I think it would be best done without charity, or at least without any expectation of charity, and with more charity given than received. Under those restrictions I think $5/day day to day living costs would still be doable, and virtuous as long as it was done without pretense. Pretense can be a hard monkey to shake however.

Appalachian Tater
01-30-2008, 21:13
I don't see why Little Debbies keep coming up.

See this:




135 day unsupported thru-hike - $675 ($5 per day - $35 a week)

Typical week would have me going to/through two towns/stores a week

A day on the trail:

six Little Debbie brownies - $1.25

one mac & chesse - $.33

Total - $1.58 w/$3.42 cents left over x 5 trail days = $17.90 surplus over five days on the trail per week

This would give me $27.90 to spend in stores/restaurants along the way at an average of 2 stores/towns a week.

This for me is not unrealistic, however it is unusual but still doable.

On my 14-day, 2006 John Muir Trail backpack (without resupply), I ate four boxes of Little Debbie brownies - Total cost $10 for 14 days - $.72 a day for food.
I did spend about $10 for a meal when I finished at Whitney Portal. A grand total of $20 for 14 days of backpacking - $1.40 per day.
So $5 a day on the AT (135 days) is not unrealistic.


What do they have to do with frugality?
Nothing. They have to do with being cheap.

Doyle=WildCowboy in that Doyle extrapolates a two-week hike with Little Debbies into a full thru-hike of the A.T. on Little Debbies and mac & "cheese", just like WildCowboy extrapolates x miles in one day to x miles a day over a full thru-hike of the A.T. Same mentality.

JAK
01-30-2008, 21:14
Up here the cheapest staples that still provide a balanced and nutritous diet tends to be stuff I like to hike on already, stuff like:

1. Oats
2. Skim Milk Powder
3. Honey
4. Lentils

A lot of vitamins and minerals could be obtained my foraging along the way. You can't depend on foraging for calories, but for vitamins and minerals its very feasible, and the learning process would add soem interest to the challenge.

JAK
01-30-2008, 21:15
I would be very surprised if Little Debbies are cheaper than Oats.

rafe
01-30-2008, 21:15
It would be interesting to see what the record might be for the most frugal thru-hike on the various trails. I think it would be just as noble an endeavour as speed records and such, depending on how it was done...

Bravo, and great post, including the rest of it. I imagine credibility would be a big issue for anyone trying to prove that they actually accomplished it.

JAK
01-30-2008, 21:16
Being frugal doesn't mean still being a mindless consumer, but with less cash.

warraghiyagey
01-30-2008, 21:22
I love little Debbies Strawberry shortcakes.!!
http://www.littledebbie.com/Images/products/shortcake.gif

JAK
01-30-2008, 21:23
Bravo, and great post, including the rest of it. I imagine credibility would be a big issue for anyone trying to prove that they actually accomplished it.I think the credibility issue is another reason why such a record would always have to me more or less private, or at least unofficial. Another example would be a record for the most humble thru-hike, or the least pretentious. Those are even harder to measure, but illustrate the most essential problem. Frugality cannot be measured purely in terms of dollars and cents.

JAK
01-30-2008, 21:23
I love little Debbies Strawberry shortcakes.!!
http://www.littledebbie.com/Images/products/shortcake.gifIf its no oats, ITS CRAP!

MuddyBugger
01-30-2008, 21:27
Tisk, tisk, tisk. Name calling is never the way to go. Especially bigot type references.


Carry on..................

Appalachian Tater
01-30-2008, 21:36
I think the credibility issue is another reason why such a record would always have to me more or less private, or at least unofficial. Another example would be a record for the most humble thru-hike, or the least pretentious.

All A.T. "records" are unofficial. There's no official body regulating or acknowledging anything except for "2,000 miler" status, which is given to anybody who sends in a request form, whether they're lying or telling the truth. People even admit to lying and still get the certificate.

You can't even compare two thru-hikes of an equal length unless they occur simultaneously because the weather is different. For instance, it would be a lot harder to thru-hike unsupported in a drought year than in a year where the springs are freely flowing. Ditto with snow, excessive rain, hurricanes, high or low temperatures, humidity, etc.

HYOH.

JAK
01-30-2008, 21:37
Your earlier post suggesting that frugality can easily be tested before you leave on your hike was a good one. It's something I try regularly, and fail regularly, but its still worth doing.

JAK
01-30-2008, 21:38
All A.T. "records" are unofficial. There's no official body regulating or acknowledging anything except for "2,000 miler" status which is given to anybody who sends in a request form, whether they're lying or telling the truth. People even admit to lying and still ket the certificate.

You can't even compare two thru-hikes of an equal length unless they occur simultaneously because the weather is different. For instance, it would be a lot harder to thru-hike unsupported in a drought year than in a year where the springs are freely flowing.

HYOH.All records are unofficial. Some records are more unofficial than others.

Appalachian Tater
01-30-2008, 21:39
Tisk, tisk, tisk. Name calling is never the way to go. Especially bigot type references.


Carry on..................

I doubt the Little Debbie Strawberry Shortcakes were offended.

Frolicking Dinosaurs
01-30-2008, 21:41
::: Dino has returned from church with a fresh bucket of holy water to throw on the fighting miscreants in this thread :::

JAK
01-30-2008, 21:43
Definitely worth pursuing though, if done the right way for the right reasons, or if there is a change you might find the right way and the right reasons along the way. I am somewhat disappointed that frugality is not an inherent part of thru-hiking and section-hiking for most people, or at least that that is my perception from participating in this forum. Was it always this way with the AT, or is it part of the commercialization of the trail?

JAK
01-30-2008, 21:44
I doubt the Little Debbie Strawberry Shortcakes were offended.LOL. Good one.

bfitz
01-30-2008, 21:45
::: Dino has returned from church with a fresh bucket of holy water to throw on the fighting miscreants in this thread :::
Aaaarrrggghhh!!! It buuuuuuuuurrrrrrrrrrrrrnnnnnnnsssssssssss!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!

Frolicking Dinosaurs
01-30-2008, 21:52
Fellows, if you want to tussle about frugality versus theft and about what ALDHA does or does not believe or endorse, take it to the sensitive trail topics area. This forum is for thru hikers to get info to plan their thru-hikes.

JAK
01-30-2008, 21:55
Hiking and frugality have always been two of my favourite life pursuits, so I would always like to mix the two. Of course I have other interests as well, such as beer and pizza. :D

Pizza is a lot better and cheaper in the States, and in my opinion American lager seems to go better with it than our typical Canadian beer. Of course there are many good beers now ever since the home brewing and micro-brewing renaissance. It is good to have such variety.

Where was I? Ah yes, frugality.

Napoleon went forth seeking virtue, but found glory instead.
Thru-Hiker went forth seeking virtue, but found beer instead.

Lone Wolf
01-30-2008, 21:56
I am doing my calculations to figure how much money i need to have to do my thru hike and i am wondering if anyone has/ remebers a break down of about how much they spent on their thru hike?

well dino, he's heard it all. shut this bitch down. nothin' but packsniffers responding anyway, me and warren excluded of course :cool:

JAK
01-30-2008, 21:57
I presume it is still safe to talk about frugality, the honest kind.

GGS2
01-30-2008, 22:10
I would like to officially apply for the record for most AT miles hiked without actually entering the US. I also hold the speed record, but I can't say how long it took. Its virtual.

JAK
01-30-2008, 22:13
Mine has been the most frugal virtual hike, unless you count by the number of posts.

OregonHiker
01-30-2008, 22:31
I think the credibility issue is another reason why such a record would always have to me more or less private, or at least unofficial. Another example would be a record for the most humble thru-hike, or the least pretentious. Those are even harder to measure, but illustrate the most essential problem. Frugality cannot be measured purely in terms of dollars and cents.


There are no official records

warren doyle
01-30-2008, 22:44
Kirby #196 Correction: I believe that I can do a thru-hike for $1,000. I only speak for myself.

#198 - Insightful (again)

JAK #199 For me, Little Debbie brownies are a cheap and easy source of calories and I like them. I can find them in many stores along or near the trail. They also seem inflation/recession proof.

Terrapin #200 Once again, the $5 a day budget was from my first step northward from Springer until I would finish on Katahdin. It would be fun to start with $675 in travelers checks and spend my last money at the Abol Bridge Campground store on the cheapest loaf of white bread they had and a jar of peanut butter. I wouldn't need to pay $9 at the Birches because I could legally climb Katahdin for free.
In all my backpacking experience (around 15,000 miles), I really haven't experienced many equipment failures that resulted in costly repairs/replacements.
I would not do shuttles. I like to hitchhike.
I would not do motels/hostels/AMC-GMC caretaker shelters/campsites.
I would eat in restaurants an average of twice a week spending at least three hours in the AYCE's (when accessible) gorging while reading the newspaper.
But most of all, I would be comfortable and happy with this and would not have to rely/depend on, or expect, charity. I would accept trail magic though whenever it was offered.

Frosty
01-30-2008, 22:59
Some of us have been around for a while. ;)Yeah, moldy oldies, that's us. :D

rafe
01-30-2008, 23:03
Yeah, moldy oldies, that's us. :D

...old enough to remember Dylan singing, Ah, but I was so much older then... I'm younger than that, now.

dessertrat
01-30-2008, 23:32
Little Debbies never go stale, and you get about 1200 calories per dollar.

MuddyBugger
01-31-2008, 00:26
Yep...1200 calories...pretty much devoid of anything close to nutritional value. But with the U.S. dollar what it is these days what would you expect?

mweinstone
01-31-2008, 00:29
8600 dollars is what i need.but im a dumb ass and waste everything and burn my clothes most nights when im not chopping axes into my leg or bathing in flamable knobe creek. or breaking my tooth. all that happened this last weekend.

JAK
01-31-2008, 02:21
Oats are 1800 kcal per dollar at $1.00/pound.

clured
01-31-2008, 13:16
I have $1,200 in the bank right now, and I'm thinking about doing the PCT on it next summer...

I think it's possible, especially if I really nail down the gear kit from the start. I spent like $500 at Waynesboro last summer buying new gear.

A-Train
01-31-2008, 13:31
I have $1,200 in the bank right now, and I'm thinking about doing the PCT on it next summer...

I think it's possible, especially if I really nail down the gear kit from the start. I spent like $500 at Waynesboro last summer buying new gear.

Your gonna hike the PCT?? What are your academia peers gonna think of you after two "thru" hikes?:)

Red Hat
01-31-2008, 13:34
...old enough to remember Dylan singing, Ah, but I was so much older then... I'm younger than that, now.

ah, yes, lots younger now

JAK
01-31-2008, 14:03
I have $1,200 in the bank right now, and I'm thinking about doing the PCT on it next summer...

I think it's possible, especially if I really nail down the gear kit from the start. I spent like $500 at Waynesboro last summer buying new gear.You should be saving the money for food, not wasting it on gear.

Jack Tarlin
01-31-2008, 18:27
Geez, Warren, if it's true that you only frequent restaurants twice a week, and if it's also true, as you previously admitted, that you get extra napkins and toilet paper every time you patronize a restaurant, then you must be lifting a prodigious ammount of paper goods every time you dine out.

Funny thing......if someone visits a convenience store and pockets a couple of candy bars before leaving, this is universally acknowledged to be "theft."

But if one goes to a restaurant and steals a buck's worth of their supplies every time one eats out, then this is considered, at least by some, to be "frugality."

Um, I'll say it again, Warren, but your budget is absurd for most people. You see, most hikers need to spend more that $39.00 per week for neccessities, and when this ammount isn't sufficient, most other hikers don't feel the need to steal in order to make up the difference.

But thank you for your insights on "frugal" thru-hiking. :rolleyes: