PDA

View Full Version : Concerns About Hiking Alone??? (Spot Satellite Messenger)



Last_minute
01-24-2008, 19:41
Hello All,

I'm still planning a NOBO hike '08 ... still haven't set a start date *cough* *cough* But rest assured my name is signifigant and I feel confident to pull something out in the clutch... However, back to why I'm here today.

The New York Times, Business Section runs a Circuits article every week (today in fact, Thursday) with updated gizmos and gadgets and I urge anyone who is hiking alone or worried about hiking alone to read on.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
A copy of the article : "Retrace Your Steps or Just Say, 'I'm All Right,' by Satellite
1/24/08
by: John Biggs

Satellite phones are still largely associated with dashing reporters and superspies, but the Spot Satellite Messenger from Spot Inc. brings a little celestial high-tech to the common hiker.

The $170 Spot (www.findmespot.com (http://www.findmespot.com)) is a seven-ounce waterproof communications device that works for about 14 days on one battery charge. It keeps in constant contact with G.P.S and communications satellites almost anywhere in the world.

The Spot can store your position over time, the replay the trip in Google Maps. Its "check O.K." feature lets you send a signal to loved ones, informing them that you are fine. If a message does not go through every few days, they will be alerted that something is amiss.

The "Ask for Help" function notifies friends and family of your location and tells them you might need a pickup. Finally, the 911 mode alerts the authorities - and supplies G.P.S. coordinates - in an emergency. The satellite service costs $99 a year.

The company also offers $7.95-a-year search-and-rescue insurance, for those times when even Spot can't help you.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

There are probably different reactions to this device. Obviously the word is, "If you leave Springer anywhere between March and April you will not be alone." I don't condone supporting a product I haven't used. However, I may look into this for my hike. Interested on your thoughts....:banana

JERMM
01-24-2008, 19:55
L-M, I have a SPOT ordered, for $149 and I think the yearly monitoring fee is very reasonable. This week I talked to park ranger he said they are excellent devices. His wife carries one on all of her hikes, he said it gives him peace of mind knowing where she is. Check this thread for more

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=31973&highlight=SPOT

http://www.rei.com/product/766529

Cindy from Indy
01-25-2008, 08:42
This looks like a neat gadget. It would certainly calm certain family and friends who are overly concerned for my safety.

My kids would enjoy tracking my progress on the computer:D

Ramble~On
01-26-2008, 08:34
Okay Mom....

I know you're reading this. I haven't had or needed one of these on any of my hikes :rolleyes: well, except for that rattlesnake bite last year and the one a few years before that one...and then there was that time those bees swarmed all over me..:eek:and that time I ran out of.....but I'm not getting one of these.

Hint hint. I guess if you're worried about me all alone out there in the big bad wilderness...you'll want me to have one of these. Right ?

Actually, these could get more people into trouble rather than keeping them out of it.
The false sense of security that having one of these units would provide could cause some people to venture
further or "bite off" more than they can chew...in the event of trouble and even if you did use the "911" feature it could be
hours and perhaps as long as a day before help might reach someone and for the ill prepared that could be too late.
I guess the "what if" factor in that also holds true to GPS units and cell phones...but each year there are too many S&R teams out looking for people who shouldn't have been where they were...and only ventured there under the security of the technology in their pockets. I'm sure that these devices will save more lives than they will harm..... and Mom, Christmas isn't that far off.

bullseye
01-26-2008, 08:48
I guess if you're worried about me all alone out there in the big bad wilderness...you'll want me to have one of these. Right ?

Which wilderness trail would that be? :confused::-? Even the 100 mile wilderness isn't wilderness. :(

Mom:D

bullseye
01-26-2008, 08:53
Actually, I too have heard this is an excellent device. I wouldn't carry this myself, but it definitely has some applications even in the "real world", like being broken down in the middle of nowhere type situations.:cool:

Lilred
01-26-2008, 13:46
Actually, I too have heard this is an excellent device. I wouldn't carry this myself, but it definitely has some applications even in the "real world", like being broken down in the middle of nowhere type situations.:cool:

I thought that's what cell phones were for....

dessertrat
01-26-2008, 13:48
If it is satellite based, it will have a signal where cell phones don't.

I don't think of the AT as remote enough to carry one, but if I were on the CDT I might.

Tinker
01-26-2008, 13:52
Agreed. Cell phones can give verbal access to your friends and relatives except where the signal is weak. Mine weighs 4-7/8 ounces.
I understand that cell phones have a GPS device in them that can alert searchers to your presence if you cannot operate the phone.
Is this correct?

warraghiyagey
01-26-2008, 13:56
Agreed. Cell phones can give verbal access to your friends and relatives except where the signal is weak. Mine weighs 4-7/8 ounces.
I understand that cell phones have a GPS device in them that can alert searchers to your presence if you cannot operate the phone.
Is this correct?
Yes, as long as it's turned on.

JERMM
01-26-2008, 21:21
My understanding is if you use one of these devices for 911 and a helicopter and S&R are dispatched and they find your situation is not life threatening you will be fined $10,000. A broken leg or flat tire is not considered life threatening.

Almost There
01-26-2008, 21:37
My understanding is if you use one of these devices for 911 and a helicopter and S&R are dispatched and they find your situation is not life threatening you will be fined $10,000. A broken leg or flat tire is not considered life threatening.

Um...are you sure abou that, February/March in the smokies with a broken leg could very well be life threatening if a snow storm rolls through. That being said, if there are other hikers out there, then you're right I wouldn't call it life threatening. Judgement would definitely be an important factor here.

Tipi Walter
01-26-2008, 22:28
Typical conversation:

"Hello, Mother?"
"Yes, Son."
"Uh, I'm stuck in the middle of nowhere and my diaper's soiled with stool. Please help me!"
"What??"
"The noseeums are vicious and I think my thermarest has a slow leak. Please send help!"
"Where are you?"
"Uh . . . I'm quite a distance from the parking lot but I can see my car from here. The fog is rolling in now and . . . I can't see the car anymore!!"

Etc,etc. Frivolous emergencies, etc.

dessertrat
01-26-2008, 22:29
Um...are you sure abou that, February/March in the smokies with a broken leg could very well be life threatening if a snow storm rolls through. That being said, if there are other hikers out there, then you're right I wouldn't call it life threatening. Judgement would definitely be an important factor here.

A broken leg is always presumed to be life threatening unless you know otherwise. Many a person has died as the result of a thromboembolytic event, such as a pulmonary embolism, stemming from a broken leg.

Tipi Walter
01-26-2008, 22:48
A broken leg is always presumed to be life threatening unless you know otherwise. Many a person has died as the result of a thromboembolytic event, such as a pulmonary embolism, stemming from a broken leg.

Survival's not the bottom line. Have we not got the memo? Everybody dies. If personal existence, survival and longevity are the dominant motivations in life, no one would go backpacking or do much of anything else. Even being a couch potato is risky, very risky.

I'd say just take this giant multi-headed American reptile that is FEAR and stuff it back in its cage. Then have a good hike.

ed bell
01-26-2008, 23:54
Survival's not the bottom line. Have we not got the memo? Everybody dies. If personal existence, survival and longevity are the dominant motivations in life, no one would go backpacking or do much of anything else. Even being a couch potato is risky, very risky.

I'd say just take this giant multi-headed American reptile that is FEAR and stuff it back in its cage. Then have a good hike.How many times do I have to say it? Great post, Tipi.

Ramble~On
01-27-2008, 07:00
Which wilderness trail would that be? :confused::-? Even the 100 mile wilderness isn't wilderness. :(

Mom:D


What trail ? The backyard is "wilderness" in Mom's eye and likely in the eye of a lot of people who will buy these and set off into the woods under a false feeling of security. While it might make my mother or anyone else's happier with us hiking solo if we had one of these nifty little gadgets they still wouldn't get the larger picture of why some of us venture out of the backyard and off the beaten path to begin with.

People die every year and the size of the wilderness area, nat. park, forest or recreational area didn't kill them. Being ill prepared and lacking even basic outdoor skills likely played a far greater role in their death than did the remoteness, ruggedness or vastness of where they were.
Having one of these gadgets isn't going to aid in hypothermia, heat stroke, lightning strike, reaction to bees etc.
Was it last year that three climbers were killed climbing Mt. Hood ? Would having one of these devices saved them?
From what I understand these were some pretty experienced folks. I don't put much faith in modern technology as a safety net but being able to send a final goodbye and coordinates to where your corpse will be...

I'd like to thank Last Minute for posting the information about these. I wasn't aware of them and there is a market for them. I'd imagine they'll sell pretty well. I don't have a use for one in what I do and wouldn't carry one on the AT or most other trails...but I have a mother who doesn't understand backcountry travel and my love of solo hiking and if I knew it would calm, relax and allow her to sleep easier knowing I had one of these things...I'd carry one. I'm sure that there are plenty of folks out there with wives, kids, parents or friends that worry about them being in the woods alone that can relate to that.

In the right hands and for the right reasons these things have a place and will serve a purpose.
In the wrong hands just as the GPS and cell phone, these will give a false sense of security to people who will venture too far from the campground and get into trouble and expect the local fire department to come save them.

mudhead
01-27-2008, 07:22
A broken leg is always presumed to be life threatening unless you know otherwise. Many a person has died as the result of a thromboembolytic event, such as a pulmonary embolism, stemming from a broken leg.

That translates to a traveling bloodclot? Never good.

hammock engineer
01-27-2008, 20:38
Cell phones work everywhere on the AT?

I definitly went a long time without being able to use it. Anyone who says that cell phones work everywhere on the AT really need to think about what they are saying. There were more places it would not work than it would.

Carry it if you want. I am planning on getting one at some point. Having said that I think like a southbounder. Not very many people on the trail between Oct and Jan.

JERMM
01-27-2008, 21:09
Um...are you sure abou that, February/March in the smokies with a broken leg could very well be life threatening if a snow storm rolls through. That being said, if there are other hikers out there, then you're right I wouldn't call it life threatening. Judgement would definitely be an important factor here.

I was told a broken leg wasn't life threatening by a park ranger. Now in the event of a storm in the Smoky's with temps in the teens or single digits well.... You gotta use common sense in every situation and a little first aid knowledge can go a long way. Or you can always call your momma. ;)

berninbush
01-27-2008, 22:17
So picture this scenario: You're section-hiking the AT one chilly March morning, well north of the NOBO crowd. There aren't a lot of other people on the trail in that particular section. You're on a stretch of trail with a sharp drop-off to one side. You put your foot down on what you think is dirt, but it proves to be a sheet of dark ice... and suddenly you find yourself rolling and tumbling down the mountainside. A couple of hundred feet later, you land with a thud against a tree trunk and realize that you've broken a leg and a couple of ribs. In shock, drifting in and out of consciousness, you are vaguely aware that you're out of sight from the trail, that there's nobody up there right now anyway, and that if you pass out you're likely to die of hypothermia before anyone even realizes you're missing.

However well-prepared you are, this could happen. If it does, your first aid kit isn't going to do you much good. Your other gear can help stave off the cold (assuming your pack didn't fall off as you tumbled), but it's going to take the help of someone else to get you out of this mess. If you've got a locator beacon, this is the time to use it. It's more responsible to tell the authorities exactly where you are so they can come get you out, than to let searchers spend hours or days (and lots of money) combing the woods in all the places you might be.

You may feel that scenarios like this are too unlikely to justify carrying the weight (or paying the price) for this device, or a cell phone or whatever. That's a personal choice, and certainly you have the right to make it. My point is just that people who choose to get one can have a legitimate reason for doing so. Even if you think their fear is overblown, they have the right to make their own risk assessment. And one of these days one of them might just find you lying by the trail with a broken leg and summon help for you. ;) I'm betting you won't complain or tell them not to bother.

Cell-phone haters must admit that this device is much more discreet and unlikely to bother other hikers...

Tenacious Tanasi
01-27-2008, 22:28
When I saw this thread, I thought, what the hey... I'll check them out. My family is the type that gets faint of heart every time I even think of going hiking. And, when I want to take my 3 daughters with me they are triply insane about it. So, off to Google I run thinking this is worth checking out. If I carried one of these contraptions, then maybe they'd give me a slight break on all of the warning me off of hiking cwap.

What I found about the Spot was pretty kewl. The one thing that really sells it to me is that my family can check my progress and can find me at any time via the use of Google maps. The other personal beacons such as the ACR Electronics Microfix 406 PLB with GPS et al did not offer this that I have been able to find.

HOWEVER... there is that $99 annual service fee for the Spot PLUS the annual GEOS Rescue Service fees. Now the ACR et al do not have these fees...ever. BUT, your family can't check your status on those units either.

Hmm...

1) Spot pay $169 for the spot + 99.99 annual service fee + $7.95 GEOS Rescue Service which equals $277.93 + taxes for the first year alone. (Family gets to check up on me any time.)

2) ACR Electronics Microfix 406 PLB with GPS pay one time purchase price of $650 + tax (went way high end here for a point) (Tell the family to stuff it and that you can call for help if need be.)

$650 (cost of ACR Electronics Microfix 406 PLB with GPS w/o any further fees... ever)
-277.93 (first year of Spot only)
372.07 (Difference in cost for the first year alone)

372.07
107.94 (total annual service fees for spot)

EQUALS 3.5 years ... but what if I get out there for several more years?

In my opinion the Spot is a good deal if you only use it for a year. However, if you will be using it every year for several more years to come, then the Microfix is the better deal.

I think personally that if my family wants to check up on me then they can foot the annual service bills if I make the initial purchase of the Spot. LOL

As far as for my girls getting out there... I plan on having micro chips implanted in them as soon as the GPS technology gets its kinks worked out. hehe Don't believe me? There are actually companies working on such technology like <a href="http://www.verichipcorp.com/">VeriChip</a> .

/me cackles like a deranged techy worry wart Momma

Nahhhh.... just kidding, just kidding... I'll just get out there and hike with them. ;)

Tinker
01-27-2008, 22:32
Geez! Bring a cell phone, already!

Other hikers can get over it. Set it on vibrate if you're worried about how it will affect others.

I used to hate cell phones. Then I got one. Live and let live goes BOTH ways.

Tenacious Tanasi
01-27-2008, 22:39
I usually do carry my cell somewhere in my pack. But, my family really hates that I NEVER turn it on while I'm hiking.

/me giggles

Last_minute
01-28-2008, 03:33
Was it last year that three climbers were killed climbing Mt. Hood ? Would having one of these devices saved them?
From what I understand these were some pretty experienced folks. I don't put much faith in modern technology as a safety net but being able to send a final goodbye and coordinates to where your corpse will be...

I'd like to thank Last Minute for posting the information about these. .

SpiritWind, first off, you're welcome... 2nd. I'd give it an 75% chance a SPOT woud've saved those guys on Hood. mmmm maybe 50/50... I believe they went up in t-shirts... so probably like other posts said, having a magic "beam-out-distress beacon" is no substitute for those caught unprepared.

You touched base on what I was thinking. For me, it is more of a comfort level letting those back home know I'm alright...however, one might be going out there in the first place to just say o.k. I'm going to forget about everyone else for a little while and just enjoy myself.

On a completely different discusion, I was amazed to learn this weekend...about how quickly the 'outside world' can find you on the AT. A good friend of a friend of a friend... was thru-hiking AT in '04 and his mother passed away while he was on the trail. Because the family knew the hikers trail name, and he posted it on sign in posts, registers, etc. a trail runner was able to locate him by the afternoon of her death.

Kudos to all the volunteers, rangers, etc. who make the trail what it is!

shelterbuilder
01-28-2008, 09:14
Now that I can't actually SPEAK well enough to be understood over the phone, my wife worries like crazy when I go out. I have a cell phone, and I carry it, but I keep it turned off unless I want to call wifey. Then, she has to ask the questions, and I simply push one "tone" for yes and two "tones" for no. (Her first question is always, "Are you alright?") While I have no intentions of getting any fancier than this for now, I realize that THINGS CAN CHANGE!!! (Heck, ten years ago, the cell phone ALWAYS stayed home when I went out hiking.) I still believe that the 3 most important safety devices that you can carry with you are: planning; planning; and planning.

JERMM
01-28-2008, 09:29
The only reason I will be carrying one of these devices to to help keep "peace of mind" at home.

Roots
01-28-2008, 09:47
The only reason I will be carrying one of these devices to to help keep "peace of mind" at home.
I can completely relate to that. I'm carrying one of them, but it is definitely a thought. My hubby, being a hiker himself, gets it. I like not having to explain things to him. My 12 year old daughter even gets the hiking world, she has grown up with it. My mom and dad is a whole other story. If they knew about one of these then she would probably get me one.:)

Lone Wolf
01-28-2008, 09:49
a gun and a cell phone are a must

Jan LiteShoe
01-28-2008, 09:58
a gun and a cell phone are a must

And don't forget your RFID chip!
Big Brother doesn't want you running off into the woods and stuff.

JERMM
01-28-2008, 10:06
And don't forget your RFID chip!
Big Brother doesn't want you running off into the woods and stuff.

don't mention that to my parents, they would have me on the table getting an implant tomorrow. Last night they were worrying about wild animals on the trail, this weeks animal of choice is a coyote. In an attempt to divert their attention elsewhere, I explained coyotes are afraid of humans and don't want anything to do with us. Maybe I should send them a few pictures from the other thread with the big rattler.

10-K
01-28-2008, 11:14
a gun and a cell phone are a must

Don't forget the candle lantern.....

Jan LiteShoe
01-28-2008, 11:42
don't mention that to my parents, they would have me on the table getting an implant tomorrow. Last night they were worrying about wild animals on the trail, this weeks animal of choice is a coyote. In an attempt to divert their attention elsewhere, I explained coyotes are afraid of humans and don't want anything to do with us. Maybe I should send them a few pictures from the other thread with the big rattler.

LOL! Good luck with that.
You are as capable a prospective thru as I've met.

And parents will be parents ...
:)

JERMM
01-28-2008, 12:06
And parents will be parents ... :)

so I've been told :D

I just got off the phone with them, this morning they are worried my food won't hold up. I told them not to worry if it goes bad I'll feed it to the wild animal so they won't harm me and there will be stores along the way that sell SPAM. There was some exchange between them about which one of them I belong to.

Quoddy
01-28-2008, 12:52
I purchased a SPOT sattelite unit from REI and activated it for unlimited service on January 24. The product and service are almost totally useless for anyone who is on the move or in the vicinity of trees. There is no signal in anything but the most completely open space, and then ony after a long waiting period.

GlobalStar with which the unit is activated has a NO REFUND policy. In order to try the unit, I paid $157.93 less than 4 full days ago. I tried it for 3 days and found it TOTALLY lacking in real world useability. In otherwords, you have to pay to even try it, and then you are screwed. Be warned!

hammock engineer
01-28-2008, 12:53
Cell phones work on the whole AT?

Last_minute
01-28-2008, 15:14
I purchased a SPOT sattelite unit from REI and activated it for unlimited service on January 24. The product and service are almost totally useless for anyone who is on the move or in the vicinity of trees. There is no signal in anything but the most completely open space, and then ony after a long waiting period.

This is why I don't condone using products I haven't tried...however, I'm still going to investigate it... I'm young, dumb, and money still grows on trees...

hammock engineer
01-28-2008, 18:26
I purchased a SPOT sattelite unit from REI and activated it for unlimited service on January 24. The product and service are almost totally useless for anyone who is on the move or in the vicinity of trees. There is no signal in anything but the most completely open space, and then ony after a long waiting period.

GlobalStar with which the unit is activated has a NO REFUND policy. In order to try the unit, I paid $157.93 less than 4 full days ago. I tried it for 3 days and found it TOTALLY lacking in real world useability. In otherwords, you have to pay to even try it, and then you are screwed. Be warned!

If you still want to part with it in a month send me a PM and I will take it off your hands if the registration is transferable.

I heard the complete oposite review from a buddy of mine that bought one and uses these sort of things.

shelterbuilder
01-28-2008, 20:21
Cell phones work on the whole AT?

No, I can think of at least one place in Pa. where they do not. It's a remote location in a deep valley, and until you start to climb out, there is no service.