View Full Version : Lost hikers on Appalachian Trail found after night at camp - BurlingtonFreePress.com
WhiteBlaze
01-25-2008, 14:20
<font style="font-size:85%;font-family:arial,sans-serif"><table border=0 width= valign=top cellpadding=2 cellspacing=7 style="font-size:100%;font-family:arial,sans-serif"><tr><td valign=top class=j><br><div style="padding-top:0.8em;"><img alt="" height="1" width="1"></div><div class=lh><a href="http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=T&ct=us/0-0&fd=R&url=http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article%3FAID%3D/20080125/NEWS/80125017/-1/NEWS05&cid=0&ei=VyiaR4GuOoKyyQTiqOGXAw">Lost hikers on <b>Appalachian Trail</b> found after night at camp</a><br><font size=-1><font color=#6f6f6f>BurlingtonFreePress.com, VT -</font> <nobr>4 minutes ago</nobr></font><br><font size=-1>AP Police say 19-year-old Seth Hubbard and 38-year-old Jesus Mancinas, both of whom live in the Rutland area, were found around 5 am Thursday after they had <b>...</b></font><br></div></td></tr></table></font>
More... (http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=T&ct=us/0-0&fd=R&url=http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article%3FAID%3D/20080125/NEWS/80125017/-1/NEWS05&cid=0&ei=VyiaR4GuOoKyyQTiqOGXAw)
You know if you are dumb enough to hike without maps and a compass and know how to use them then you should have to paid for the rescue only fair.
SGT Rock
01-25-2008, 14:37
Don't forget the regular assurance by one-time-past former thru-hikers that you don't need a map.
Pedaling Fool
01-25-2008, 14:52
Not very much information in that report, but besides not having (assuming) a map and compass, I feel very confident in saying they probably wouldn't know how to use it. See too many reports like this that leave many questions, but suffice it to say they were not hikers, but boneheads in the woods.
Sometimes experienced people get a little overconfident when they are close to home.
I don't think there is enough information to judge these fellows, based on that article.
Am I missing something?
Pedaling Fool
01-25-2008, 15:30
No you're right JAK I'm just assuming they're boneheads. The beauty of public opinion.
Rain Man
01-25-2008, 16:31
Don't forget the regular assurance by one-time-past former thru-hikers that you don't need a map.
Right. But they had a cell phone and "called mommy" to bail them out.
What's wrong with this picture?
Rain Man
.
Vermont typically charges for rescues. There's some sort of unofficial "bonehead scale" to determine just how much they pay. Skiers that go under the out-of-bounds ropes next to the "don't go under the ropes or you'll pay to get your a$$ rescued" signs generally pay the most.
wilconow
01-25-2008, 17:46
Police say rescuers used GPS equipment to find the hikers’ last known location, between Little Killington and Mendon Peak in Mendon
I don't remember these place names. Is this like between the Gov'r Clement Shelter and the ascent to Killington?
Jack Tarlin
01-25-2008, 17:53
There's been a bunch of talk lately here on Whiteblaze, with some very forthright people telling newbies, in no uncertain terms, that maps are un-needed on the A.T., and are, in fact, "useless."
It would be most instructive to find out if these folks in Vermont had maps.
I'm willing to bet a six-pack they didn't.
Something to think about, the next time some seasoned "veteran" spouts off on how useless maps are. :-?
The most important tool of all is sufficient experience and judgment, and that, in my opinion, is usually the critical common factor in this type of rescue. A cell phone is useless if you don't have coverage. A GPS is useless if the batteries are dead. A map is useless if you don't know how to use it. Many people are rescued every year with every physical tool they need to do fine.
kayak karl
01-26-2008, 11:01
I would ditch the water filter for Aqua Mira. It will save you a good amount of weight and the filters can be pretty annoying.
If possible, I would ditch the tent and just bring the rainfly/poles/footprint. (I am a tarp man myself) It will still be early in the season so bugs should not be a problem.
Compass - not necassary.
this is a partial post on a responce to a gear list a day or 2 ago. this is what was suggested to a hiker.:-? on a cloudy day i would want to know east or west on the AT. no maps, no compass, no brains; i know where their heads at, but why?:D
Sissygirl
01-26-2008, 11:15
With some of the unfortunate news from the trail, can't we just be happy they were found and stop with the negativity.
kayak karl
01-26-2008, 11:35
With some of the unfortunate news from the trail, can't we just be happy they were found and stop with the negativity.
How many more people do we want FOUND? lets limit the lost! every time you go hiking, kayaking or biking ; u are at risk. be prepared!
PREPARE FOR THE WORST, HOPE FOR THE BEST:)
Hike Safe
How many more people do we want FOUND? lets limit the lost! every time you go hiking, kayaking or biking ; u are at risk. be prepared!
PREPARE FOR THE WORST, HOPE FOR THE BEST:)
Hike Safe
Yes, be prepared - carry and know how to read a map, bring a flashlight even on day hikes, have a first aid kit, have an extra layer of clothes and/or rain gear and be aware of your surroundings.
kayak karl
01-26-2008, 12:13
Yes, be prepared - carry and know how to read a map, bring a flashlight even on day hikes, have a first aid kit, have an extra layer of clothes and/or rain gear and be aware of your surroundings.
good info. thanks
hike safe
good info. thanks
hike safe
You're welcome. Just part of my Asst. Scoutmaster duties. :)
WalkingStick75
01-26-2008, 17:16
They were lost
Call 911
GPS semi locates them
Rescue team finds a fire they started but has to track them.
Bonehead really comes to mind. Leaving the safety of a fire? Not only warmth but to siginal those they called for help.
Landshark
01-26-2008, 18:12
I don't remember these place names. Is this like between the Gov'r Clement Shelter and the ascent to Killington?
Little Killington is on the AT but Mendon Peak is not. Not 100% sure where these guys actually were.
warraghiyagey
01-26-2008, 18:15
With some of the unfortunate news from the trail, can't we just be happy they were found and stop with the negativity.
:):):):)
Landshark
01-26-2008, 18:20
With some of the unfortunate news from the trail, can't we just be happy they were found and stop with the negativity.
Great point!
I think if it was someone you knew and you were home waiting for them (hopefully looking at a note stating where they had gone and what time they'd return, of course), it might be different.
What if the story had played out just a little differently? From the article (there was one in the local paper as well), it doesn't say what time the hikers called 911 to say "we're lost." What if it was just a little different...what if someone from home instead had called the authorities at 10 pm and had said, "Our friends went out on the AT and should have been home 3 hours ago?" Then, when they were found safe at a camp, would they still be morons or just lucky?
Is it because they called for help that they are morons? If they were found dead of hypothermia, would we be saying "Those morons had a phone, they should have called for help!" ??????????
By the way, I agree with the practice of charging for rescues, especially based on a bonehead scale.
Landshark
AP Police say 19-year-old Seth Hubbard and Jesus were found around 5 am Thursday
Jesus saves!
warraghiyagey
01-26-2008, 18:33
Jesus saves!
Causing trouble already??:D:D
Causing trouble already??:D:D
Nope, just putting a positive spin on the story:)
Just because you may be hiking with Jesus doesn't mean you shouldn't have a map and compass and the ability to navigate with them.
No need to worry about fire or fording though, Jesus can make bushes combust and walk on water:rolleyes:
warraghiyagey
01-26-2008, 19:26
Nope, just putting a positive spin on the story:)
Just because you may be hiking with Jesus doesn't mean you shouldn't have a map and compass and the ability to navigate with them.
No need to worry about fire or fording though, Jesus can make bushes combust and walk on water:rolleyes:
Far be it from me to pretend to be a biblical scholar, but I believe the burnin bush parable is from the Old Testament (see Torah).:):):p
Blue Wolf
01-26-2008, 20:00
Glad their both ok ....but my question is how the f*** do you get lost on the AT it's pretty well marked?
Far be it from me to pretend to be a biblical scholar, but I believe the burnin bush parable is from the Old Testament (see Torah).:):):p
You should have been told by now not to believe everything you read. http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/laughing013.gif
Glad their both ok ....but my question is how the f*** do you get lost on the AT it's pretty well marked?
Hard telling what these guys did to get off trail but a snow covered landscape can make staying on the trail difficult, especially at dusk and into darkness.
warraghiyagey
01-26-2008, 20:20
You should have been told by now not to believe everything you read.:rolleyes:
Hard telling what these guys did to get off trail but a snow covered landscape can make staying on the trail difficult, especially at dusk and into darkness.
:p:p
That and most folks are aware that people getting lost on the trail isn't the newest of news. Especially in the conditions you indicated Woodsy.
The Old Fhart
01-26-2008, 21:09
Wilconow-"I don't remember these place names. Is this like between the Gov'r Clement Shelter and the ascent to Killington?"Gov. Clement Shelter is about 4 miles S of Killington. Little Killington is about 1 mile south of Killington and about 0.4 west of the A.T.. Mendon Peak is about 1.5 miles SW of Killington and NW of Little Killington.
As to what they were doing there is anyone's guess but Mendon Peak is on the list of NE 100 highest peaks and there are people who try to climb all 100 of these peaks in the calender winter season-that is one possibility. I have been to Mendon Peak a couple of times from the Killington side (east) and from what I recall of the winter trip, it is fairly thick spruce in areas and no real features that stand out. They probably weren't too far west of some of the backcountry ski trails.
Glad their both ok ....but my question is how the f*** do you get lost on the AT it's pretty well marked?
whiteblazes?
winter?
vermont?
just a few ways, aside from wandering off trail for whatever reason.
Whiteblazes?
Winter?
Maine
A couple photos might help explain
In the hardwoods:
http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=21771
In the conifers:
http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=19979
Just a couple instances of why it can be difficult to stay on wintry trails,
there are many more, like when there is 3-4 feet of snow and your head is in the conifer branches, the trail suddenly becomes very narrow and elusive.
Above treeline can be tricky in places too, with surface blazes covered in snow and no cairns to follow.
neighbor dave
01-27-2008, 11:16
winter 's different
here's a shot inbetween lafayette and garfield on the A.T.
http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=15363&catid=member&imageuser=4327
here's the long trail in vermont
http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=15362&catid=member&imageuser=4327
another trail shot
http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=15365&catid=member&imageuser=4327
Hehe, nice photos dave!
Says it all, er, mostly all, throw in a whiteout and..............
Were the conditions that extreme where these two got misplaced?
Went headfirst down an evergreen well on snowshoes as a rugrat. The shoes went accross the top. I can still hear the laughter. Have not been on snowshoes since. Thanks Dave. I almost bought some this year...
neighbor dave
01-27-2008, 11:47
if i had and knew how to use a scanner i could show you photos of a whiteout where you quite literally can't distinguish between the ground and the sky. pure milk white
there's plenty of snow in the higher elevations here in vt.
if we had a dusting or flurry its easy for the trees to bet plastered on the windward side and all blazes disappear.
also, it these 2 were locals, its easy to leave home without your kit and just go for a hike. heading off in the wrong direction, light fading, a missed turn - any of it could lead to 'getting lost'.
don't know the situation on the weather - but they were found. thats good.
people can armchair QB this all they want - 2 people are alive - doesn't matter how they got into the situation - if it was a boneheaded mistake - thats for the state to charge them for it - if it was a collision of things - glad to see they made it out.
if i had and knew how to use a scanner i could show you photos of a whiteout where you quite literally can't distinguish between the ground and the sky. pure milk white
went out to my favorite little 'bump' when i first moved to s.vt. just as a snowstorm was winding down. got 200' from the car in the trailhead lot and realized i'd be screwed if i continued - blowing and drifting snow, no tracks on the trail (first one!), and i couldn't see any blazes. most of my tracks were starting to disappear from the wind. not complete whiteout - but there were times i could only see 10' in front of me. disorienting for sure.
made it back to the car - came back 2 hours later when the sky cleared and the sun came out and had a beautiful hike.
still had first tracks - but i could make out the topography (still no blazes!) and had a great hike - met several people on the way down who followed my path and hoped i was heading the same place they wanted to go...