PDA

View Full Version : VA-MD Trail Magic



AlwaysHiking
01-28-2008, 15:02
What are the do's and don't's of trail magic? I don't think things are worth doing unless they're done right so I'm hoping thru's (not planning mine until 09) can give some advice. There is a group of VA hikers who want to get out and leave some gifts but we wonder when the best time of the season is for VA-MD when the most hikers will be coming thru and what are the most valued acts of kindness on the trail?

Ideas we've had so far:

Water caches - dropping collapsible 5 gallon containers off at shelters with no water and returning to pick them up a few days later.
Food/beverages - burgers and dogs, homemade meals, coolers with chilled drinks, groceries, etc.

Lone Wolf
01-28-2008, 15:03
NEVER leave anything unattended. Period. hikers are self-sufficient. they don't need food.

dessertrat
01-28-2008, 15:08
If you really want to help people out-- and they shouldn't really need it, as Wolf says-- then it might be nice to drop some gallon jugs of water at some of the areas without any. But in a real drought, sometimes not only hikers are interested in water. Animals sometimes raid the water jugs.

Leaving food unattended is a bear/raccoon/skunk magnet. If you bring food you'll have to stand there until people come and get it, or leave something non-perishable in a hiker box.

mystic
01-28-2008, 15:21
One thing NOT to do is to leave cases of bottled water. I hiked through lower VA last fall. Around a couple of the major road crossings cases of bottled water had been dropped a hundred yards up the trail. What was left as I passed was the cardboard box, plastic wrap and a bunch of faded empty bottles. Basically just a big trash pile. While I'm sure it was well intended it looked terrible.

So, unless you plan to go back and police the area don't leave anything.

Whereas passing along the trail near the settler's museum I found a nice bag tucked up in a tree. It had oatmeal packets, cocoa, powdered creamer, etc... And you could tell that it was maintained. Due to the placement, I assume the museum caretakers take it out in the morning and bring it in at night. That was nice.

AlwaysHiking
01-28-2008, 15:25
:Scratches head at responses:

First off, I'd never even THINK of leaving food unattended. I know hikers have their own food, but when I'm out for a few weeks having someone show up and offer me a home cooked plate of lasagna and fresh garlic bread would be incredible. Do the majority of thru-hikers not feel the same way? I've only ever sectioned so I can't fully relate to thrus. If it's not such a great idea, then we won't do anything like that but need some other, better ideas in place.

And is water really that big of a deal to leave? Maybe if critters are a concern it would be better at a road crossing rather than a shelter?

Lone Wolf
01-28-2008, 15:29
There is a group of VA hikers who want to get out and leave some gifts but we wonder when the best time of the season is for VA-MD when the most hikers will be coming thru and what are the most valued acts of kindness on the trail?

Ideas we've had so far:

Water caches - dropping collapsible 5 gallon containers off at shelters with no water and returning to pick them up a few days later.
Food/beverages - burgers and dogs, homemade meals, coolers with chilled drinks, groceries, etc.

right here you talk about LEAVING food and drink. LEAVE nothing. "thrus" are no different than section hikers. i take that back. "thrus" EXPECT so-called magic

jesse
01-28-2008, 15:29
Water caches - dropping collapsible 5 gallon containers off at shelters with no water and returning to pick them up a few days later.

anything unattended is not magic; it's litter.

jesse
01-28-2008, 15:33
So, unless you plan to go back and police the area don't leave anything.


Totally disagree!!! If you pack it in you pack it out then, not latter, otherwise you are littering. Against the law, and violates the LNT principle.

AlwaysHiking
01-28-2008, 15:34
right here you talk about LEAVING food and drink. LEAVE nothing. "thrus" are no different than section hikers. i take that back. "thrus" EXPECT so-called magic

I said the water containers, nothing at all about leaving food...

wilconow
01-28-2008, 17:04
with maryland, there's so many towns, places to stop right off trail, water, backpackers campground, spigots, etc etc why would you leave trail magic there?

dessertrat
01-28-2008, 17:14
with maryland, there's so many towns, places to stop right off trail, water, backpackers campground, spigots, etc etc why would you leave trail magic there?

Yes, during the summer there' s a lot more water-- the state parks are open, and the backpacker's campground. Try going through in November or December, and it's quite a bit dicier on the water supply.

Terry7
01-28-2008, 17:18
I was about 15 miles south of Erwin when I saw a ammo box with a AT sticker on it. It was bolted to some 2 by 4s. I opened it and it had some payday, snickers, and some romen. I was out of food because of a sore heel. The candy was great and got me to Erwin. [ I left the Romom, I hate the stuff] If your going to leave stuff then put it in a container that animals cant get in to.

jesse
01-28-2008, 17:34
If your going to leave stuff then put it in a container that animals cant get in to. http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/wb_style/buttons/quote.gif (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=515038)

Totally disagree!!! leaving anything is littering. Against the law, and violates the LNT principle.

This subject comes up often, and I am amazed at the number of people who think they are the exception to the principle of LNT.

Trail Angels should follow LNT like everybody else.

wilconow
01-28-2008, 17:35
Yes, during the summer there' s a lot more water-- the state parks are open, and the backpacker's campground. Try going through in November or December, and it's quite a bit dicier on the water supply.

aren't the spigots at both gathland and dahlgren frost-free/year round? i know there's also one at old forge, maybe 7 miles into PA? reliable creeks may not be that plentiful.. the one near 491 i know will always be flowing..

AlwaysHiking
01-28-2008, 17:42
Trail Angels should follow LNT like everybody else.

So give some other ideas... this is why I posted asking for the Do's and Don't's. If leaving a 5 gallon jug of water at a shelter for two days is a bad idea, then give me some other ideas of what can be done.

Or is TM just something that shouldn't be done in general? In my experience it's welcomed but if there is a reason a group of people shouldn't go out and do something nice for a bunch of thrus, then I'd like to hear why.

Lone Wolf
01-28-2008, 17:47
So give some other ideas... this is why I posted asking for the Do's and Don't's. If leaving a 5 gallon jug of water at a shelter for two days is a bad idea, then give me some other ideas of what can be done.


give $$$ to a local maintaining club. hikers do not need food and drink.

jesse
01-28-2008, 18:06
So give some other ideas...

I don't have any. If you want to feed hikers do it. Just stay with your stuff wherever, whatever you do. I don't think I said anywhere in my post, that you shouldn't go out and do something nice for a bunch of thrus. When people leave stuff, it lessens the outdoor experience of others.

LW has a good idea. Giving time and money to maintain the trail.

Lone Wolf
01-28-2008, 18:07
if you want to feed hikers take them home for a backyard bbq

dessertrat
01-28-2008, 18:09
Totally disagree!!! leaving anything is littering. Against the law, and violates the LNT principle.

This subject comes up often, and I am amazed at the number of people who think they are the exception to the principle of LNT.

Trail Angels should follow LNT like everybody else.

If someone likes LNT that much, he or she should burn all shelters and privies to the ground.

If you leave something in a box at a shelter, how does that violate LNT? Spoiling the natural majesty of the shelter?

MOWGLI
01-28-2008, 18:09
So give some other ideas... this is why I posted asking for the Do's and Don't's.

OK then. Don't.

The best trail magic you could provide is helping to maintain the trail.

It's nice of you to consider being so generous, but if you really want to give away food, get involved with a food pantry. There is plenty of hunger in Appalachia. Hikers elect to be out there and should provide for themselves.

Lone Wolf
01-28-2008, 18:11
if you want to feed hikers take them home for a backyard bbq

or better yet, what mowgli says

dessertrat
01-28-2008, 18:12
aren't the spigots at both gathland and dahlgren frost-free/year round? i know there's also one at old forge, maybe 7 miles into PA? reliable creeks may not be that plentiful.. the one near 491 i know will always be flowing..

When I went through over Thanksgiving weekend, the one at Dahlgren was turned off, much to my chagrin, with the restrooms locked up and the spigot out back dry. So was the water at all of the state parks except that frost free spigot at Gathland, which was still turned on. (And that one is easy to overlook if you don't know where it is).

hammock engineer
01-28-2008, 18:17
People give food to hikers at road crossing? I must have missed it.

AlwaysHiking
01-28-2008, 18:18
I don't think I said anywhere in my post, that you shouldn't go out and do something nice for a bunch of thrus.

The question you're referring to wasn't directed at you or anyone in particular. It was just a question.


LW has a good idea. Giving time and money to maintain the trail.

It is a good idea, and I already do that and then some. But the trail to me is about people too, not just the piece of earth it occupies. That's why the group I hike with is interested in doing something to help hikers in a personal way, just to put a smile on their face.

hammock engineer
01-28-2008, 18:18
When I went through over Thanksgiving weekend, the one at Dahlgren was turned off, much to my chagrin, with the restrooms locked up and the spigot out back dry. So was the water at all of the state parks except that frost free spigot at Gathland, which was still turned on. (And that one is easy to overlook if you don't know where it is).

Welcome to the services open for southbounders.

jettjames
01-28-2008, 18:34
An idea that I think is a good one is to find a shelter near a road and hike in some beer and ice. I missed ice. but a cold beer, *****, even a warm beer, was/is a welcome site. you could get a few guys each with a cooler and just kinda hang out at the shelter for a couple of days handing out beers, then hike out all the empties. gatorade was always awesome too.
I always appreciated TM that was food, I got tired of my food bag. But as lone wolf says I had my food, I always had enough, never NEEDED tm. but sure liked it.
just my thoughts.
Also lone wolf's idea of a backyard bbq is fun, you could set up shuttles and offer showers and a fun place to crash for the nite. Of course don't make it too comfortable or you'll never get rid the stinky hikers.
I do agree with the LNT and please be sure to pack it all out or clean it all up.

pt

dessertrat
01-28-2008, 18:37
There is one place in Maryland (right near I-70) where the AT does pretty much go through someone's back yard. I would love to own that house. They even have their own "trail register" set up. I found it funny that under the column asking for "trail name" almost everyone going through had written "AT". Duh!

Lone Wolf
01-28-2008, 18:39
There is one place in Maryland (right near I-70) where the AT does pretty much go through someone's back yard. I would love to own that house. They even have their own "trail register" set up. I found it funny that under the column asking for "trail name" almost everyone going through had written "AT". Duh!

why would you want a steady stream of hikers going through your yard?

dessertrat
01-28-2008, 18:42
why would you want a steady stream of hikers going through your yard?

Yeah, it would probably get old pretty quick. I'll bet some of them would even have the nerve to knock on the door and ask for water or food, etc. But it would make my drive to the trail a lot easier (as in I wouldn't have one).

But I do like talking to people, even thru-hikers. There is that aspect of it.

Pedaling Fool
01-28-2008, 19:11
"Trail Magic" really is like feeding the bears. Thru-hikers come to depend on it, I think this is partly responsible for the "I'm entitled" attitude of many.

Gray Blazer
01-28-2008, 20:41
Do it and have a good time. Don't worry about White Blazers. None of them will probably be there and if any of us were there we'd be glad to help you. (I think my English teacher is rolling in her grave.)

Blissful
01-28-2008, 22:07
We were very blessed by the trail magic. But I have to admit, when we didn't get it because others already raided it and left the empty bags and styrofoam containers, we felt cheated. So there is a mindset about it that is unsettling and not good for the trail. One should hike the trail not expecting food and water and to be self sufficient.

I liked it, rather, the instances of the unexpected. When I came across weekend hikers who were cooking dinner on the trail and one of them offered me this huge navel orange out of the blue. Or the lady in PA walking her dog who gave us SKittles. Some people on ATVs in ME offered a bottle of iced cold water on a warm day, then took the bottle when I finished. The super set-up at Swatari Gap by a former thru hiker who wanted to do it on a Sunday afternoon because others had helped him on his hike (and had this huge set-up for four hikers that came by that day). Nice memories. And the great cookie celebrating our 2,000th mile by Old Fhart. The out-of-the-blue encounters were great because they were unexpected and they made the time on the trail memorable.

I see nothing wrong with making others feel special with cooking a few burgers or leaving water, yeah, even if they are dumb thru hikers just doing some dumb hike that they don't have to do in life. It makes that dumb thing a fond memory that lasts. And it makes you realize that people care about what you are doing and sometimes that's enough to keep going and accomplish something that will last and can be passed down to others.

So if you want to set up some food or give someone candy or an orange, do it. Some dumb hiker will love it and it will make their day.

jesse
01-28-2008, 23:37
These are lame ass comments:


If someone likes LNT that much, he or she should burn all shelters and privies to the ground.

Are you serious? I don't like the idea of shelters, I don't have the right to destroy them.


If you leave something in a box at a shelter, how does that violate LNT? Spoiling the natural majesty of the shelter?

Whats worse than a shelter o the AT? A shelter on the AT that is full of trail magic crap.

dessertrat
01-28-2008, 23:55
These are lame ass comments:



Are you serious? I don't like the idea of shelters, I don't have the right to destroy them.



Whats worse than a shelter o the AT? A shelter on the AT that is full of trail magic crap.

First of all, don't think I'm seriously advocating arson. But how can anyone claim to embrace "Leave No Trace" at a shelter. A shelter is a massive manmade building. Do you really think it hurts something to leave a jug of water there for a few days? Nobody thinks a shelter is natural (although by the numbers of photographs of shelters you see on whiteblaze, you might think hikers had never seen a building before).

A-Train
01-29-2008, 01:24
OK then. Don't.

The best trail magic you could provide is helping to maintain the trail.

It's nice of you to consider being so generous, but if you really want to give away food, get involved with a food pantry. There is plenty of hunger in Appalachia. Hikers elect to be out there and should provide for themselves.

100% agreed. It's in our nature to want to help others, since many of us got magic/help on our hikes, and want to give back. I gave out a lot of food for a couple years and finally it just got old. Not that there's anything wrong with feeding or helping hikers, but certainly there are more causes, and people in much dire need.

That being said, I need to do more trail maintainance this coming season!

ScottP
01-29-2008, 01:32
OK then. Don't.

The best trail magic you could provide is helping to maintain the trail.

It's nice of you to consider being so generous, but if you really want to give away food, get involved with a food pantry. There is plenty of hunger in Appalachia. Hikers elect to be out there and should provide for themselves.

What Mowgli said.
While I fully appreciate all of the magic I've gotten on my hikes, giving a hiker trail magic is like buying a friend a drink--it's a nice gesture, but it's not philanthropy. If you think it will be a fun time to hang out with/feed hikers, then go for it, but keep in mind that we have the time to take long vacations. We're not charity cases.

A-Train
01-29-2008, 01:38
What Mowgli said.
While I fully appreciate all of the magic I've gotten on my hikes, giving a hiker trail magic is like buying a friend a drink--it's a nice gesture, but it's not philanthropy. If you think it will be a fun time to hang out with/feed hikers, then go for it, but keep in mind that we have the time to take long vacations. We're not charity cases.

Plus it sets up weird dynamics. Weird people hanging around waiting to spend time with hikers they don't know, to try and befriend then. Half the time I couldn't tell if the hikers really liked me or felt obligated to be nice to me since I gave them food :)

I think usually it's as much about the giver than the receiver

minnesotasmith
01-29-2008, 02:59
1) Healthy food that's ready-to-eat, and ideally some of which can be taken with the hiker to be eaten for dinner. Sandwiches with lean meat (turkey, say) on whole-grain bread, maybe with fresh spinach and tomato, would be fixable ahead of time, so would not need cooking at a road crossing or whatnot.

Also, how about giving out some frozen quarts of skim milk or orange juice (NOT Tang/Sunny Delight) in plastic bottles? Even in summer, would still be cold 4+ hours later.

2) Hikers often run short of consumables, from duct tape to stuff for blisters to paper towels to TP. These are cheap to buy, and could be a real godsend to any hiker you offer them to.

3) If all you do is take a hiker's trash, refill his water bottles, and give him an encouraging word, you've done a LOT for him.

Good luck to you, and as a previous thruhiker, thank you for considering becoming a trail angel. :)

MOWGLI
01-29-2008, 08:54
2) Hikers often run short of consumables, from duct tape to stuff for blisters to paper towels to TP. These are cheap to buy, and could be a real godsend to any hiker you offer them to.




Paper Towels????? Who the heck needs paper towels on the Appalachian Trail??? :confused: Toilet Paper??? You want people to hand out toilet paper to hikers?? Are you serious??? :-? Duct Tape?? Now we're calling for people to distribute duct tape to hikers at road crossings???? Whatever happened to personal responsibility??? :mad: This is beyond absurd.

Why don't we just write our legislators and pass a law that makes AT hikers eligible for welfare and food stamps - for 6 months. That's enough to get MinnesotaSmith about 1400 miles. :D

Pedaling Fool
01-29-2008, 09:49
1) Healthy food that's ready-to-eat, and ideally some of which can be taken with the hiker to be eaten for dinner. Sandwiches with lean meat (turkey, say) on whole-grain bread, maybe with fresh spinach and tomato, would be fixable ahead of time, so would not need cooking at a road crossing or whatnot.

Also, how about giving out some frozen quarts of skim milk or orange juice (NOT Tang/Sunny Delight) in plastic bottles? Even in summer, would still be cold 4+ hours later.

2) Hikers often run short of consumables, from duct tape to stuff for blisters to paper towels to TP. These are cheap to buy, and could be a real godsend to any hiker you offer them to.

3) If all you do is take a hiker's trash, refill his water bottles, and give him an encouraging word, you've done a LOT for him.

Good luck to you, and as a previous thruhiker, thank you for considering becoming a trail angel. :)
There's your shopping list, now go do some magic.

Pedaling Fool
01-29-2008, 09:50
...And can you get me some snickers.

jesse
01-29-2008, 10:46
A shelter is a massive manmade building. Do you really think it hurts something to leave a jug of water there for a few days?

yes I do. That jug usually ends up in the woods nearby. Garbage attracts garbage. Somebody leaves a jug of water, hikers, locals start leaving other stuff. Sooner than later the place becomes Newark.

minnesotasmith
01-29-2008, 11:36
Paper Towels????? Who the heck needs paper towels on the Appalachian Trail??? :confused: Toilet Paper??? You want people to hand out toilet paper to hikers?? Are you serious??? :-? Duct Tape?? Now we're calling for people to distribute duct tape to hikers at road crossings???? Whatever happened to personal responsibility??? :mad: This is beyond absurd.



The man was asking for some ideas on giving out trail magic. I gave him some ideas of items hikers could find valuable. If a hiker gets sick, he could go through far more TP than he usually carries. A few paper towels are useful for drying the interior of footwear, impromptu food plates, wiping mud off skin and gear, etc.

Your objections to a hiker being offered consumables as trail magic are equally applicable to them being given food as well. I take it you are logically consistent, and oppose that as well?

Lone Wolf
01-29-2008, 11:38
The man was asking for some ideas on giving out trail magic. I gave him some ideas of items hikers could find valuable. If a hiker gets sick, he could go through far more TP than he usually carries. A few paper towels are useful for drying the interior of footwear, impromptu food plates, wiping mud off skin and gear, etc.

Your objections to a hiker being offered consumables as trail magic are equally applicable to them being given food as well. I take it you are logically consistent, and oppose that as well?

i don't see any "magic" in all this. :-? it's basically wannabes kissin' ass to rub elbows with a THRU-HIKER :eek: they're so rare.:)

dessertrat
01-29-2008, 11:39
yes I do. That jug usually ends up in the woods nearby. Garbage attracts garbage. Somebody leaves a jug of water, hikers, locals start leaving other stuff. Sooner than later the place becomes Newark.

They should have told someone not to leave two wooden buildings and a picnic table there, either.

Gray Blazer
01-29-2008, 11:42
The man was asking for some ideas on giving out trail magic. I gave him some ideas of items hikers could find valuable. If a hiker gets sick, he could go through far more TP than he usually carries. A few paper towels are useful for drying the interior of footwear, impromptu food plates, wiping mud off skin and gear, etc.

Your objections to a hiker being offered consumables as trail magic are equally applicable to them being given food as well. I take it you are logically consistent, and oppose that as well?

He can't hear you because he's off involved with a food pantry and then he'll be busy talking to legislatures making sure that thrubees get their food stamps. He already gave out food and candy (not paper towels, for heaven's sake) for a coupla years, but it got old for him so don't you do it.

GGS2
01-29-2008, 12:15
LNT as a philosophy should apply to all our lives, not just the trail. The pity of it is that there are too many of us, too much of our stuff, all around us. People leave trucks and houses everywhere. Pretty soon there are broken bottles and toilet paper strewn about. The AT is no different. LNT as a philosophy is just a degradation mitigation tactic. It doesn't work in the whole. We should all just live in huts, make our own trails to gather food, etc., and live as nature evolved us to. Fat chance.

Pedaling Fool
01-29-2008, 12:19
LNT as a philosophy should apply to all our lives, not just the trail. The pity of it is that there are too many of us, too much of our stuff, all around us. People leave trucks and houses everywhere. Pretty soon there are broken bottles and toilet paper strewn about. The AT is no different. LNT as a philosophy is just a degradation mitigation tactic. It doesn't work in the whole. We should all just live in huts, make our own trails to gather food, etc., and live as nature evolved us to. Fat chance.
Should our huts have computers?

MOWGLI
01-29-2008, 12:25
The man was asking for some ideas on giving out trail magic. I gave him some ideas of items hikers could find valuable. If a hiker gets sick, he could go through far more TP than he usually carries. A few paper towels are useful for drying the interior of footwear, impromptu food plates, wiping mud off skin and gear, etc.

Your objections to a hiker being offered consumables as trail magic are equally applicable to them being given food as well. I take it you are logically consistent, and oppose that as well?

Earth to Mowgli?? Did you learn anything on your hike?

1. A thru-hike is about self sufficiency. Yes, everyone receives some help along the way, but if you're not smart enough to carry enough TP between resupply points, or use some natural alternative, then what the heck are you doing attempting a thru-hike?

2. A thru-hike should (hopefully) teach individuals about the folly of the disposable lifestyle led by most Americans. Paper towels??? Ever hear of a bandanna or a garbage bag to line your pack? I've never met a single hiker carrying paper towels, much less one who would view their dissemination at road crossings as a "godsend."

3. One of the best aspects for many hikers is going into town. Hikers spending cash in towns is a boost to local economies. Suggesting that individuals hand out products at roads as a replacement for local consumption is a really dumb idea IMO. It creates a dependency and expectation that flies in the face of the self sufficiency that should underpin any thru-hike attempt. It's also downright creepy to think that people will be dispensing toilet tissue to hikers at road crossings.

4. I also find it disgusting that someone who has advocated for the elimination of welfare for the poorest among us, would advocate for welfare for the least needy among us - including himself. It's simply hypocrisy at it's highest (or lowest) form.

PS: Gray Blazer, I didn't give out food & candy, so whoever is filling your head with that nonsense is simply wrong. I did participate in exactly one trail magic day the year after my hike, and exactly one hiker came along (EZ-Does-It) at the Rte 17A road crossing in NY. I also left a Styrofoam cooler at the RTE 17A trailhead the year I thru-hiked, and later found it smashed to bits with empties strewn around. That sort of experience informs my current views on the subject.

The sort of trail magic that I found more helpful was offering rides into town, rides to Campmor, and performing trail clean-ups and maintenance. That's what makes hiking possible for the trail user.

AlwaysHiking
01-29-2008, 12:38
i don't see any "magic" in all this. :-? it's basically wannabes kissin' ass to rub elbows with a THRU-HIKER :eek: they're so rare.:)

a section hiker is a wannabe? or is a section hiker someone with obligations that just haven't allowed that person to leave life for months at a time?

i know there are differences between thrus and section hikers, but i don't think a section hiker is a wannabe.

i am NOT a wannabe if i'm actually out doing be it for one week at a time or not, i'm out doing.

---

how to piss off a bunch of old crotchety hikers? ask for tips on doing something nice for the people you meet on a trail.

Gray Blazer
01-29-2008, 12:40
:o Whoops, Mowgli, I was reading post 35 and it had your quote in it and I got mixed up. A senior moment.:o I'm amazed at how some keywords will start off a firestorm on this website. Trail Magic is one of them. I respect your opinion, but seeing as how this is the USA, I'm thinking a person has a right to help/associate with others if they want to help/associate whether it's a large corporation or a poor down on their luck family who is deserving of help. Obviously, in the larger scheme of things, helping a poor person is far better than helping a corporation or even a thrubee on the AT. Most people in this country work hard and how they spend their recreational time should be up to them. A person who performs TM on the AT may be helping the poor people of Appalachia in their spare time. We don't know.

dessertrat
01-29-2008, 12:41
a section hiker is a wannabe? or is a section hiker someone with obligations that just haven't allowed that person to leave life for months at a time?

i know there are differences between thrus and section hikers, but i don't think a section hiker is a wannabe.

i am NOT a wannabe if i'm actually out doing be it for one week at a time or not, i'm out doing.

---

how to piss off a bunch of old crotchety hikers? ask for tips on doing something nice for the people you meet on a trail.

Who said anything about section hikers being wannabes? He said that about people who go out of their way to do "Trail Magic", not about section hikers.

Gray Blazer
01-29-2008, 12:42
---

how to piss off a bunch of old crotchety hikers? ask for tips on doing something nice for the people you meet on a trail.
Amen to that!!:sun:sun

AlwaysHiking
01-29-2008, 12:44
Who said anything about section hikers being wannabes? He said that about people who go out of their way to do "Trail Magic", not about section hikers.

he directed it at me b/c i'm the one talking about doing TM and i'm a section hiker. i'm not a wannabe unless section hikers are wannabes.

MOWGLI
01-29-2008, 12:48
This is enough of a controversial issue that none other than the Appalachian Trail Conservancy - the organization responsible for protecting the trail - has weighed in on the issue.

It would behoove anyone considering performing trail magic to look at the ATC's Trail Magic web page (http://www.appalachiantrail.org/site/c.jkLXJ8MQKtH/b.3075131/k.29C2/TrailMagic.htm).

Happy (and friendly) Trails to all!

dessertrat
01-29-2008, 12:53
he directed it at me b/c i'm the one talking about doing TM and i'm a section hiker. i'm not a wannabe unless section hikers are wannabes.

Poor logic, since not all section hikers want to do trail magic. If you knew L.Wolf's past comments on this topic at all, you would know that he is a section hiker, and does not think that thru-hikers are special.

AlwaysHiking
01-29-2008, 12:59
This is enough of a controversial issue that none other than the Appalachian Trail Conservancy - the organization responsible for protecting the trail - has weighed in on the issue.

It would behoove anyone considering performing trail magic to look at the ATC's Trail Magic web page (http://www.appalachiantrail.org/site/c.jkLXJ8MQKtH/b.3075131/k.29C2/TrailMagic.htm).

Happy (and friendly) Trails to all!

that's actually useful and helpful. the type of feedback i was hoping to get all along.

honestly everyone, you have no idea the amount of time i put in every year to philanthropic efforts. i don't consider TM philanthropic, it's just something nice a person can do for another person she meets along a trail. i do nice things for anyone that comes across my path be it at a shopping mall, at work, or on the trail. being kind doesn't have to be reserved for the needy, it can be shown to anyone at anytime and be appreciated.

trailangelmary
01-29-2008, 13:03
Since I have been a member of WhiteBlaze there have been many threads on the topic of trail magic. Here are some of them:

TRAIL HEIRARCHY
www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=9484 (www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=9484)

SOUTH BOUNDERS TRAIL MAGIC http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=22351

TRAIL MAGIC PANEL AT THE GATHERINGhttp://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=18063

THOUGHTS ON MAGIC
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=9484

So, Always hiking, if you have the time you might also want to read these threads to get ideas on magic. As with this thread, there are many opinions on the subjects of to do or not to do magic. There are also ideas if you choose to do magic.
In my experience, I had no problems doing my trail magic of leaving water or beverages on trail for the first 5 years. During the 2006 hiking season however I learned that the Nat'l Park Service considers unattended trail magic littering and you can receive a fine of up to $300. The ridge runners are told to report unattended trail magic. Trail clubs may be told by someone to remove trail magic or may choose to do so themselves. Garbage on the trail may be from unattended trail magic coolers, day hikers partying, or hunters.
If you choose to do some trail magic despite the naysayers, good luck and have fun. If you ever want to join me in some attended trail magic in the Duncannon, PA area give me a shout.

Attached are pics Keystone gave me this weekend at The RUCK. They were taken by him being the first hiker to come upon the smorgasborg of coolers added to my one cooler after some locals heard about my problems with the NPS and local trail clubs. I went back twice daily after discovering what they had done to keep the area clean and remove empty containers. The last cooler left there was removed by (I think) the local trail club.

AlwaysHiking
01-29-2008, 13:04
Poor logic, since not all section hikers want to do trail magic. If you knew L.Wolf's past comments on this topic at all, you would know that he is a section hiker, and does not think that thru-hikers are special.

but i'm saying, if he's calling me a wannabe because i'm not a thru-hiker and i'm just trying to rub elbows with the thrus then what else could he possibly be implying about anyone on the trail who is not a thru?

MOWGLI
01-29-2008, 13:06
that's actually useful and helpful. the type of feedback i was hoping to get all along.

honestly everyone, you have no idea the amount of time i put in every year to philanthropic efforts. i don't consider TM philanthropic, it's just something nice a person can do for another person she meets along a trail. i do nice things for anyone that comes across my path be it at a shopping mall, at work, or on the trail. being kind doesn't have to be reserved for the needy, it can be shown to anyone at anytime and be appreciated.

Serendipity = unexpected kindness = thank you.

Yeah, things can get a bit contentious. I hope you leave the paper towels and TP @ home. Except for your own consumption - that is. ;)

GGS2
01-29-2008, 13:11
Should our huts have computers?

Nope. No smoke signals either.

Lone Wolf
01-29-2008, 13:18
i guess what really chaps me is the elitism associated with this "magic". this summer in vermont we came upon unattended stuff. one was a stream with a bunch of cans in it and a box bolted to a tree with a register in it so you could sign it, giving the soda leaver a pat on the back. a couple of miles later was a cooler just sitting in the woods with "for thru-hikers only" on it. it also had a register. i signed it. :) it was empty with trash strewn around it. i didn't take any soda from the first stream and would not have taken from the cooler if there were sodas in it. i've been denied "magic" in person because i wasn't a "thru-hiker". that was funny. i pretty much refuse "magic" any more.

so alwayshiking, do your magic, treat all hikers equally and leave no trash. :)

AlwaysHiking
01-29-2008, 13:23
so alwayshiking, do your magic, treat all hikers equally and leave no trash. :)

I wonder, if there's more trash on the AT than there is trash talk on WB?
:)

Will do, LW, thanks for the advice.

Lone Wolf
01-29-2008, 13:25
I wonder, if there's more trash on the AT than there is trash talk on WB?
:)



not hardly. i'm the king of trash-talk-spewing

Gray Blazer
01-29-2008, 13:44
not hardly. i'm the king of trash-talk-spewing
Everybody's good at something. :D

Always Hiking, see what you started. I just can't believe everybody's singing Kumbuya by the 4th page already. That usually takes about 10 thread pages.

hammock engineer
01-29-2008, 22:10
I was thinking about this today and decided to go with what is probibly the unpopular view.

I can only come up with 3 reasons someone would do trail charity.
1 to help out someone
2 to feel good about helping someone out
3 to repay the favor of getting some when they hiked

I can understand reason 3. I should add if I can work it I want to hike into a shelter and meet any southbounders on the trail after Christmas this year with food and drink for the night. A reason for my hiking partner to have fun, so we decided to invite anyone hiking when we were. My way of repaying the food given to me while I was hiking.

If it is reason 1 or 2 I think it could be better served if it was done for people that actually need help and not people on vacation. I am sure there are hungry people close by that need it more.

AlwaysHiking
01-29-2008, 22:41
I can only come up with 3 reasons someone would do trail charity.


Those are only three reasons why YOU would do it, you can't put your reasons on another person's actions.

Why do so many people seem to think that I would like to do something nice on the trail out of charity? If every act of kindness is considered charity, then I can see why there aren't more acts of kindness in every aspect of social interaction.

Gray Blazer
01-30-2008, 00:00
It's more like a party out in the woods. It's fun. I got the idea right here on WB when I joined and heard of Fishin' Fred. When I held mine it was a lot of fun because I was camped out in a pretty wild place (for me) on a mountaintop in a March Snowstorm in the Nantahalas. I enjoyed the company. Whoever would come out on a 5000' MT in a snowstorm is my kind of people. I fixed ham and eggs and hot choclate/coffee for all hikers regardless who came along. I had the time of my life! The discussion of TM here on WB has become heated since 06. Back then everybody was starting a thread about TM and most of the replies were about people wanting to help out. Look out for me camping in some fairly remote spot in early April. Maybe I'll see you on the AT.

middle to middle
09-19-2008, 11:42
I accept cookies !

rubyvermonter
09-19-2008, 16:02
I've been section hiking on and off for several years from central Maine to Virginia. There are areas where the water sources dry up by mid-summer and water in large containers at road crossings are a blessing!
Last summer, I encountered an AMC trip leader who was taking a hiking group to a different shelter each week with gallons of water, soda, fruit, baked goods, etc., to give to the hikers at the shelter. I enjoyed the baked goods and fruit especially and I did not have to filter water from a tiny spring that night. They left several gallons of water at the shelter but planned to return to pick up the empties. I was delighted!
I have also encountered coolers near road crossings with soda, granola bars, etc., where there may also be a plastic bag for the garbage. The people who leave snacks in coolers most certainly return regularly to replenish the coolers and to pick up the trash left in the bags. If there is no trash bag and a hiker takes trail magic, the hiker should be responsible for disposing of the garbage properly.
Other trail magic I've encountered includes dayhikers giving me fresh fruit or yummy snacks, someone inviting me to her house to shower, do laundry, etc.
Thanks for thinking of doing trail magic and enjoy doing it!
Ruby Vermonter

Bare Bear
09-22-2008, 23:57
Since 2006, Well I guess I should be so ashamed of accepting all of the rides in and out of towns, the few 'hiker feeds' such as at Neel's Gap (Bad Winton!), and especially when Mouse's folks showed up at Fontana with dinner and beer for about 100 hikers! And let me not forget to ask forgiveness for the help at the outfitters in Kent who got me shoes overnighted as the ones in the store did not quite fit. They should have charged me more but did not. Oh yeah, LW should curse the cop that drove me in to Kent and let me know nicely that hitching was illegal there too.
So then I really screwed up by putting on the Stecoah Gap feed every April since. In 07' we had an outhouse, breakfast-luch-dinner, wash station, hiker box with Duct tape !!!! Fuel, etc.
I figure we kept about 165 hikers from pooping int he woods. We collect five to ten bags of trash from around the area when we first arrive each year. Last year we even had to remove a dead goat from the picnic area. We run 20-30 hikers into Robbinsville for the night. About twice that go into town for resupply so we help that local economy. If this offends LW and others, tough. You do not have to stop. Some do not. Some do not want to leave (Hi Wonder :) Lots of locals stop and have a soda jsut to see what is going on. I feel we have had a very positive effect ont he locals who are pretty notorious for hating hikers. I enjoy meeting the current group. I get 20 or so "I finished" emails/photos. It gives the Class of 2006 an excuse to get together again. I usually see 10-15 every year stop by. I do leave water but make sure the gallon empties are anchored and carried out when we go. (The Forest Service will not let us stay overnight anymore). So again I apologize if this offends a few.

Bare Bear
09-23-2008, 00:04
BTW I have worked on 22 Habitat houses so far. Twice I have gone to other countries to help build churches/schools/medical clinics. I do regular trail maintenance and volunteer with Sierra Club as well.
Hikers seldom NEED Trail Magic but I think it is fun, I can afford it and will continue to do it. I think the most appreciated TM was stopping by Ensign Cowell shelter this year and dropping off cold sodas and beer for the 30 some hikers there. That is hardly an isolated shelter, the road crosses 50 yards away and there is a nice new hostel about 1 mile down the road. But I did not hear any complaints, and yes I got a hiker to volunteer to take the empties out to the roadside trash cans.