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DesertMTB
02-01-2008, 14:16
Reading Backpacker Magazine and seeing other hikers I am amazed at the number of people out there still not going ultra light, or at least light.

I can see not going ultra five years ago when the gear was still way expensive.


But you can pick up a Go-lite pack for 100 bucks, alcohol stove for dirt cheap, poly pros and light clothing, etc.

What's the deal? Do people have an affection with carrying 40 to 50 pound loads?

Lone Wolf
02-01-2008, 14:17
yes........

A-Train
02-01-2008, 14:20
Why people don't switch:

-Pride
-Machismo
-Already own the gear, it's functional, why spend more money
-some ultra light gear IS expensive (tarptents/sleeping bags)
-don't wanna change/conform
-like hurting their bodies
-content carrying the weight
-don't wanna buy into the hype

Skidsteer
02-01-2008, 14:20
I suspect that many folks you consider heavy are not carrying individual items that weigh much more than a light hiker's gear: They may just carry more gear items. :-?

JAK
02-01-2008, 14:20
If you are lean, or not in a hurry, or not going very far, with rolling hills, its no big deal.

But you could always go ultra-light cheap. Hiking has always been cheap, and always will be.

mweinstone
02-01-2008, 14:20
if gear actually took away weight from your feet,..id carry a rock. i dont wanna go for a hike. i wanna carry. port. lug. drag. gasp and die trying to carry ever heavyer loads. more and more slabs of bacon and raw meat get lashed on my pack as i mature. fear not the heavy pack but rather the empty mug.

4eyedbuzzard
02-01-2008, 14:22
Those UL packs just don't have a good enough suspension to properly carry all the necessities. I tried one on but my pressure cooker and frying pan wouldn't fit behind my propane latern properly and the handle then stuck out forcing the blade of my machete into my back - even through my Carhartt coat.

JAK
02-01-2008, 14:23
So you eat your bacon out of a mug too eh. I thought I was the only one. :D

A-Train
02-01-2008, 14:23
Oh and a couple more:

-want to be comfortable in camp, have creature comforts. Rather be comfy in camp than walking
-want to be prepared for anything and everything, to the point of overpreparing. Don't wanna rely on other folks for back-up supplies.

Appalachian Tater
02-01-2008, 14:26
Once you get your base weight down to 15 pounds, maybe even 20 pounds, the other half your pack weight might be food, water, and fuel. The really light hikers I've seen don't carry too much food or water. I met one on a short trip eating nothing but Fritos. They resupply more frequently than I would want to. They are also willing to do without some things, like Skidsteer said.

CaseyB
02-01-2008, 14:27
What would you call UL? My stuff is fairly modern but not UL....my pack-out weight is right at 30. (3-4 day load) Maybe just all I'm willing to sacrifice right now?

jhick
02-01-2008, 14:29
The day 40+lbs becomes a problem for me, I'll think about it. I am aware of the weight of my gear, but I'm not gonna cut the handle to a dam toothbrush. For most, ultralight backpacking seems to be more of a pi$$ing match.

dessertrat
02-01-2008, 14:34
Reading Backpacker Magazine and seeing other hikers I am amazed at the number of people out there still not going ultra light, or at least light.

I can see not going ultra five years ago when the gear was still way expensive.


But you can pick up a Go-lite pack for 100 bucks, alcohol stove for dirt cheap, poly pros and light clothing, etc.

What's the deal? Do people have an affection with carrying 40 to 50 pound loads?

If you claim to be hiking for the exercise, shouldn't you try to go ultra-heavy?

JAK
02-01-2008, 14:38
Personally I think you can lose weight faster by hiking lighter.

Blue Jay
02-01-2008, 14:42
Reading Backpacker Magazine and seeing other hikers I am amazed at the number of people out there still not going ultra light, or at least light.

What's the deal?

The deal is you are a magazine weenie. We're not. It's that simple

dessertrat
02-01-2008, 14:44
Personally I think you can lose weight faster by hiking lighter.

It's a joke, JAK. (Sorry, I don't always use smileys).

greentick
02-01-2008, 14:44
I will lighten what I can when I can without sacrificing comfort and I hate being hungry.

warraghiyagey
02-01-2008, 14:44
Reading Backpacker Magazine and seeing other hikers I am amazed at the number of people out there still not going ultra light, or at least light.

I can see not going ultra five years ago when the gear was still way expensive.


But you can pick up a Go-lite pack for 100 bucks, alcohol stove for dirt cheap, poly pros and light clothing, etc.

What's the deal? Do people have an affection with carrying 40 to 50 pound loads?
To each his own. Or do you want an entity in your life demanding you do everything their way because they deem it better??;)

rafe
02-01-2008, 14:45
Reading Backpacker Magazine and seeing other hikers I am amazed at the number of people out there still not going ultra light, or at least light.

My observation of AT thru-hikers indicates a gradual acceptance of light hiking, if not ultra-light. Given the popularity of packs like the GG Vapor Trail, which on a good day carries maybe 30 lbs... It's a far cry from the early 1990s (for example), when most folks were carrying 40-45 lbs.

Also, FWIW... the ultra-light notion originated "out West," while the AT is an eastern trail.

Plus, the really decent UL gear isn't generally found in stores like REI, EMS, etc. but in small dedicated outfitters or on the Internet (or home-built.)

DesertMTB
02-01-2008, 14:46
If you claim to be hiking for the exercise, shouldn't you try to go ultra-heavy?

No. You can hike further and place less stress on your bones hiking 20 pounds or less.

Jack Tarlin
02-01-2008, 14:46
People should carry what they feel is appropriate for THEM, whatever the popular trend or fad may be.

DesertMTB
02-01-2008, 14:47
The deal is you are a magazine weenie. We're not. It's that simple

Right. I think you are just a weenie period. Jackass

warraghiyagey
02-01-2008, 14:48
For most, ultralight backpacking seems to be more of a pi$$ing match.
That sure seems to be the case every time the subject is brought up.
If you like ultralight then do it, enjoy and leave others to their preference.
Simple;)

4eyedbuzzard
02-01-2008, 14:48
Depends upon what one's purpose is, and level of comfort and convenience. Is it worth carrying an extra pound and a half to have a 2 1/2" air core mattress to sleep on rather than a 1/2" thick piece of hard foam? Is it worth carrying an extra pound and a half to have a solid tent vs just a tarp? Stove? Camera? Cell phone? ... And what of the pack itself and the suspension?

If you're looking to simply make miles and are willing to sacrifice comfort and convenience UL is obviously the way to go, but for many carrying 5 to 10 pounds extra means the difference between sleeping and camping comfortably and enjoying their hike vs. being on an uncomfortable forced march. Everybody's out there for their own reasons, hence HYOH, and CYOE(choose your own equipment) as needed to enjoy YOUR hike.:)

DesertMTB
02-01-2008, 14:49
To each his own. Or do you want an entity in your life demanding you do everything their way because they deem it better??;)


Not at all. I got into ultra light gear because my brother gave me his hand-me downs when he got new gear.

I carry everything I need, including alcoholic beverages, for around 25-20 pounds.

You people seem really touchy on this subject.

warraghiyagey
02-01-2008, 14:50
Right. I think you are just a weenie period. Jackass
Great. A new Troll.

Terry7
02-01-2008, 14:51
I pack about 40 lbs, 20 lbs is food and 5lbs is water. This gives me the freedom to take my time and not have to rush the big miles to the next town to resupply. This is my way but I believe the "hike your own hike" is the best way.

4eyedbuzzard
02-01-2008, 14:52
I carry everything I need, including alcoholic beverages, for around 25-20 pounds.

You carry everything YOU need. Others have different needs.


You people seem really touchy on this subject.

You brought it up.

warraghiyagey
02-01-2008, 14:53
I pack about 40 lbs, 20 lbs is food and 5lbs is water. This gives me the freedom to take my time and not have to rush the big miles to the next town to resupply. This is my way but I believe the "hike your own hike" is the best way.
I find 40 (average) to be a great weight for me and I don't mind 45 after a re-supply heading into a longer stretch.

DesertMTB
02-01-2008, 14:55
Great. A new Troll.


Are you referring to me? I am responding to being called a "magazine weenie." Blue Jay is the one who started with the trollish response.

hobojoe
02-01-2008, 14:56
"What's the deal with not hiking ultra light? "
Why make real sausage gravy when instant is so much easier?
what's the deal with airline food?

4eyedbuzzard
02-01-2008, 14:58
"What's the deal with not hiking ultra light? "
Why make real sausage gravy when instant is so much easier?
what's the deal with airline food?

Don't get me started.;):D

warraghiyagey
02-01-2008, 14:58
Are you referring to me? I am responding to being called a "magazine weenie." Blue Jay is the one who started with the trollish response.
Actually, the negative energy started with this thread.

Wolf - 23000
02-01-2008, 14:59
DesertMTB,

A lot of it is people making excuses why they can not backpack ultra light or light weigh. I’ll explain, somewhere on this website someone made the excuse they could understand “not going ultra (light weight) five years when the gear was way expensive.” Now let’s look at how retarded that statement is. I’ve been backpacking sense 1989 carrying under 5 pounds base weight - cost of my equipment, around $200 - $250 total. Most hikers spend more on their backpack than I did on my entire equipment. You can imagine my reaction when someone was trying to B.S. everyone into believing it was to expensive 5 years ago and not now.

It could also be the choices people make. Some hikers don’t mind carry the extra weight and will buy equipment such a Go-lite pack rather than getting something lighter and less expensive. A 9 oz REI Flash UL for $25 works fine for long distance, but rather than doing the same they spent EXTRA MONEY and carry EXTRA WEIGHT because they want to.

I go on this belief, I don’t care how much someone else carries or how little they carry, I worry about how much I carry and that is it.




Wolf

rafe
02-01-2008, 15:02
Actually, the negative energy started with this thread.

I dunno. Maybe the last line of the opening post was a bit provocative, but it's a legit topic.

Lone Wolf
02-01-2008, 15:04
What's the deal with leki poles, cell phones, cameras, water filters and all the other useless junk people carry? that crap adds up.

DesertMTB
02-01-2008, 15:04
Actually, the negative energy started with this thread.

Not on my part. I was simply conveying a simple observation I have encountered while hiking the Grand Canyon and other trails. The negativity lies on those who responded so.

Hey people! I was just making a friendly post.

rafe
02-01-2008, 15:06
What's the deal with leki poles, cell phones, cameras, water filters and all the other useless junk people carry? that crap adds up.

Cameras useless? I thought you and Gypsy liked those photos? ;)

4eyedbuzzard
02-01-2008, 15:08
What's the deal with leki poles, cell phones, cameras, water filters and all the other useless junk people carry? that crap adds up.

People want to?:-?

Perhaps proper hiking procedures should be legislated...:rolleyes:

warraghiyagey
02-01-2008, 15:09
People want to?:-?

Perhaps proper hiking procedures should be legislated...:rolleyes:
Yes, yes. There should be a consortium of the most opinionated people that believe hiking should be done their way and they should set the rules that all other hikers MUST abide by.

jhick
02-01-2008, 15:13
POLES - because I gotta look like a hiker
PHONES - because I wanna call people and tell them I'm hiking.
CAMERAS - pictures, so I can show people that I was hiking.
WATER FILTERS - see #1

just having fun, bored @ work ;)

Bob S
02-01-2008, 15:17
My observation of AT thru-hikers indicates a gradual acceptance of light hiking, if not ultra-light. Given the popularity of packs like the GG Vapor Trail, which on a good day carries maybe 30 lbs... It's a far cry from the early 1990s (for example), when most folks were carrying 40-45 lbs.

Also, FWIW... the ultra-light notion originated "out West," while the AT is an eastern trail.

Plus, the really decent UL gear isn't generally found in stores like REI, EMS, etc. but in small dedicated outfitters or on the Internet (or home-built.)


REI like all of us likes money, what reason do they have for not carrying more UL gear?

Is the market for UL gear not large enough to bother with?

Is it that ultra light gear is not as durable and they don’t carry it because it’s too fragile and prone to breakage?


I have a few (really more then a few) homemade stoves and while they are light weight and work well, they probably will not take the abuse of a Coleman, Svea or MSR stove.

DesertMTB
02-01-2008, 15:19
Yes, yes. There should be a consortium of the most opinionated people that believe hiking should be done their way and they should set the rules that all other hikers MUST abide by.


I NEVER said people should hike the way I do. Thanks for calling me a troll.

rafe
02-01-2008, 15:21
Is the market for UL gear not large enough to bother with?

Is it that ultra light gear is not as durable and they don’t carry it because it’s too fragile and prone to breakage?

Both of the above, I think. Besides, REI probably makes most of their money on shiny Nalgenes and name-brand threads. Actual hiking probably only accounts for a small fraction of their sales. I'm guessing 10-20%, tops. Ditto for EMS.

Most of the big ticket items that I used this year were bought on the web. Pack, sleeping bag, tent in particular. (No Tarptents at retail stores.)

Mags
02-01-2008, 15:26
Is the market for UL gear not large enough to bother with?




yep.

Backpacking in general is not a big market anymore.

The real money maker for REI and such is APPAREL. Jackets, pants, hats, etc.

Fashion if you will.

The rest if climbing, skiing, mtbing, camping, hiking and then backpacking (at least based on popularity of what is now popular in outdoor recreation).

Jim Adams
02-01-2008, 15:40
Not at all. I got into ultra light gear because my brother gave me his hand-me downs when he got new gear.

I carry everything I need, including alcoholic beverages, for around 25-20 pounds.

You people seem really touchy on this subject.


Actually I never considered 25lbs ultralight. My current A.T. pack weight is 26lbs. with a 0* bag, 4 days food, a liter of water and a liter of whiskey.

IMO ultra light is 10-20lbs but then I also feel that most of those "ultralight" hikers just don't get it. Sitting around camp at the end of the day wearing the same clothes and shoes that I wore all day while eating energy bars and hoping that I will be warm enough tonight is not my idea of fun.:cool:

geek

jhick
02-01-2008, 15:44
...Sitting around camp at the end of the day wearing the same clothes and shoes that I wore all day while eating energy bars and hoping that I will be warm enough tonight is not my idea of fun.:cool:



well put...

CaseyB
02-01-2008, 15:47
Actually I never considered 25lbs ultralight. My current A.T. pack weight is 26lbs. with a 0* bag, 4 days food, a liter of water and a liter of whiskey.

IMO ultra light is 10-20lbs but then I also feel that most of those "ultralight" hikers just don't get it. Sitting around camp at the end of the day wearing the same clothes and shoes that I wore all day while eating energy bars and hoping that I will be warm enough tonight is not my idea of fun.:cool:

geek
Liter? Ultralighter.:p

DavidNH
02-01-2008, 15:48
From what I observed, those carring the real light packs.. sub 20 pounds or even sub 30 pounds, hiked faster and longer to cover more ground. They hiked from town to town. Me, I wanted to be out in the woods longer. I took 10 days through the 100 mile wilderness and often would shop for five days of food at a time. Food gets heavy when you have a lot of it. I also like my whisperlite. So it weighs a pound instead of couple ounces? It burns hot and quick and my food is cooked pronto. Just to carry enough food and water means I need a pack that can handle a certain amount of weight.. and that means the 2-3 pound packs are out for me.

What your pack weighs is not what really matters. What really matters is that you enjoy your hike. That you take the time to notice the amazing scenery that you pass through along the AT. If you get sore from a too heavy pack.. try switching out items or shipping something home. You can always get it back later. The beauty of a long hike like the AT is you have time and chance to experiment with different equipment and find out what works for you.


I will keep expermenting with my equipment and will shave off ounces and pounds where I can. But I am never going for that ultra light minmalist philsophy where you sleep in a sardine can of a tent, and hike 20-30 miles a day so you can carry two days less food by getting to town sooner.

The real challenge on the AT, I found, was to not get taken in by the keeping up and doing miles. Let the jackrabbits go. Remember, the tortose beats the hare in the end!

davidnh

futureatwalker
02-01-2008, 15:57
I enjoyed Ray Jardine's Beyond Backpacking, and thought some of his ideas on lightweight backpacking were good. Perhaps the most worthwhile tip was to always carry an umbrella! I got a Go-lite one for my next trip. That said, I haven't abandoned all the gear I've accumulated just to save weight. My Lowe Alpine pack is heavyish at ~ 5lbs, but it's pretty comfortable, and I can't justify replacing it just to save weight. My approach is to try and replace things with lighter versions whenever stuff needs to be replaced.

envirodiver
02-01-2008, 16:00
I think that I pack light and based upon my understanding of UL I'm not that interested. I constantly work on getting my pack lighter. I do enjoy my hiking more with a light pack, and my camp more with a few extra things. I want to be out backpacking because I enjoy it.

If I'm trying to make do with a pack that isn't comfortable supporting the load or raingear that doesn't keep me dry, or shelter that shelters me only in good conditions and not adverse conditions then it reduces my enjoyment. I hike solo a lot and seek locations that are devoid of people and not crowded with them. So I'm of the opinion that I need to carry everything that I need for good conditions or in an emergency. I may not be able to knock out 20 miles a day, but that's OK.

My winter pack is probably a bit too heavy, but I'm not willing to take as many risks in winter conditions.

The thing that I don't understand is why it is important to people that want to go UL that everyone should follow suit. Hey if I pull into a campsite and see a coleman lantern going, I may think that I'm glad I'm not hauling that thing around. But, certainly not going to go yell at them because they did. Who cares?

DesertMTB
02-01-2008, 16:07
The thing that I don't understand is why it is important to people that want to go UL that everyone should follow suit. Hey if I pull into a campsite and see a coleman lantern going, I may think that I'm glad I'm not hauling that thing around. But, certainly not going to go yell at them because they did. Who cares?


I really don't think that is the case with ultra lighters. To each his own. I started this thread to simply find out why people don't do the UL thing.

Wolf - 23000
02-01-2008, 16:08
Actually I never considered 25lbs ultralight. My current A.T. pack weight is 26lbs. with a 0* bag, 4 days food, a liter of water and a liter of whiskey.

IMO ultra light is 10-20lbs but then I also feel that most of those "ultralight" hikers just don't get it. Sitting around camp at the end of the day wearing the same clothes and shoes that I wore all day while eating energy bars and hoping that I will be warm enough tonight is not my idea of fun.:cool:

geek

Hey geek,

What about those of us who hike less than 10 pounds total pack weight? Don't we still count as ultra-light?

Wolf

Jim Adams
02-01-2008, 16:09
Hey geek,

What about those of us who hike less than 10 pounds total pack weight? Don't we still count as ultra-light?

Wolf

I always thought you guys were dayhikers!!!!:D

geek

Roland
02-01-2008, 16:12
I always thought you guys were dayhikers!!!!:D

geek

Now THAT's a funny comeback!

jnohs
02-01-2008, 16:13
my equipment weight is 32 pounds do you peeps think that is heavy?

Lone Wolf
02-01-2008, 16:15
my equipment weight is 32 pounds do you peeps think that is heavy?

nope. that's fine

Appalachian Tater
02-01-2008, 16:15
It burns hot and quick and my food is cooked pronto.

What is the advantage in that?

Usually when I'm cooking on a hike, I'm not in a hurry.

Jim Adams
02-01-2008, 16:16
my equipment weight is 32 pounds do you peeps think that is heavy?
not at all!
geek

Wolf - 23000
02-01-2008, 16:28
Now THAT's a funny comeback!

Ok laugh at my pack. I see how you are.:D

Wolf

Wolf - 23000
02-01-2008, 16:33
I really don't think that is the case with ultra lighters. To each his own. I started this thread to simply find out why people don't do the UL thing.

DesertMTB,

Why don't you backpack lighter. If you can spend $100 and carry the extra weight of a Go-lite pack you can't be that much of an ultra-light backpacker. As you said each to his own.

Wolf

Kirby
02-01-2008, 16:33
"It's very easy to carry 70 pounds of lightweight backpacking gear".

I heard/read that somewhere, I am not sure who said it, but I give full credit to who ever did.

Kirby

warraghiyagey
02-01-2008, 16:37
"It's very easy to carry 70 pounds of lightweight backpacking gear".

I heard/read that somewhere, I am not sure who said it, but I give full credit to who ever did.

Kirby
Which brings us to the age old question - 'Which is heavier, a 70lb pack or 70lbs of ultralite gear.'

DesertMTB
02-01-2008, 16:39
DesertMTB,

Why don't you backpack lighter. If you can spend $100 and carry the extra weight of a Go-lite pack you can't be that much of an ultra-light backpacker. As you said each to his own.

Wolf

I'm too broke. I'm using my brother's Go-Lite Gust.

Yeah, I'm a UL poser. What a sorry sack of **** I am.

ed bell
02-01-2008, 16:48
I keep wondering why people like to stick their noses in other people's packs.:-?:rolleyes:

warraghiyagey
02-01-2008, 16:49
I keep wondering why people like to stick their noses in other people's packs.:-?:rolleyes:
Odd behavior indeed.

envirodiver
02-01-2008, 16:52
I finally understand what is meant by "packsniffers".

DesertMTB
02-01-2008, 16:53
Odd behavior indeed.


I agree. What odd behavior...

warraghiyagey
02-01-2008, 16:55
Reading Backpacker Magazine and seeing other hikers I am amazed at the number of people out there still not going ultra light, or at least light.

I can see not going ultra five years ago when the gear was still way expensive.


But you can pick up a Go-lite pack for 100 bucks, alcohol stove for dirt cheap, poly pros and light clothing, etc.

What's the deal? Do people have an affection with carrying 40 to 50 pound loads?


I keep wondering why people like to stick their noses in other people's packs.:-?:rolleyes:


Odd behavior indeed.


I agree. What odd behavior...
:-?:confused::confused::confused:

DesertMTB
02-01-2008, 16:57
:-?:confused::confused::confused:


I'm speaking about your odd behavior. No need to jump down my throat because I simply asked why people don't switch to UL. Several NICE posters on here answered. And others, such as yourself, acted like jerks. Still waiting for that apology for calling me a troll.

10-K
02-01-2008, 16:57
Where can I get an UL candle lantern?

DesertMTB
02-01-2008, 16:57
I won't hold my breath.

DesertMTB
02-01-2008, 16:58
Where can I get an UL candle lantern?


www.hikinglight.com (http://www.hikinglight.com)

warraghiyagey
02-01-2008, 17:00
I won't hold my breath.
http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/ad/apple.gif

taildragger
02-01-2008, 17:16
Why not carry UL equipment say ye, well, maybe because I felt like I should have about 4 beers a day...thats some weight there...

Be leary of who you suspect as to not carrying UL equipment. My base weight is about 15lbs and thats with a Gregory Whitney pack.

quasarr
02-01-2008, 17:16
I have had this discussion with my boyfriend several times ...

I cut the end off my toothbrush, he thinks that an extra pound is "not that heavy" :eek:

I have a mini swiss army knife, he carries a giant Crocodile Dundee fixed-blade knife (for what??? defending himself from bears?)

But he enjoys his gear, and I enjoy mine so what's the big deal? Also the context matters. There are times when lightweight backpacking makes sense, and time when it doesn't. For my thru hike, I'm planning to shave every ounce. For a 3-day section ... you better believe I'm gonna bring Trivial Pursuit. :D

mudhead
02-01-2008, 17:21
How much beer can you stuff in a Whitney? 36?

GGS2
02-01-2008, 17:38
Boy, this thread sure gets people going. The original post was about a magazine, and what loads people seem to be carrying there. My impression is that these people are not out on long distance treks, but rather are out for a few days on vacation. What I see of people who aren't really long hauling is that they like their creature comforts. Consider the average car or RV camper. Or the average "hunting" camp. All sorts of cookware and "home entertainment" gear,clothing, camp furniture, sporting goods and you-name-it. Now say back packing, and you get what those boy-scouts are reported to try to carry on outings, packed by mom.

Speaking of mom, i know there are a lot of women on this list who pack very sensibly. There are also a lot of women who just can't imagine going anywhere without a hair dryer, and who hate the thought of those icky worms and things in the forest. There are many fewer women on the trail than men: What is it? The ick factor? And do men get hernias trying to make it easy for their girl friends and wives?

hopefulhiker
02-01-2008, 17:42
I think Backpacker Magazine is as much about selling gear as it is about backpacking.. If you get out there long enough you start to reevaluate what you are carrying...

rafe
02-01-2008, 17:48
What is it? The ick factor? And do men get hernias trying to make it easy for their girl friends and wives?

It's a fair question but not so simple. I see lots of women doing day hikes, less so on longer (multi-day) backpacking treks. I'd guess that some of the allure of long-distance hiking is bragging rights and "proving oneself" in terms of physical prowess and physical deprivation. Which is something that (to their credit) is not so appealing to the ladies. But that's just my dumb opinion on the matter... :D It could also have something to do with issues of perceived safety in the woods, and of means (eg., free time, finances, responsibilities at home, etc.)

taildragger
02-01-2008, 17:49
How much beer can you stuff in a Whitney? 36?

I think I could put in 36 cans with gear for a winter excursion with room to spare. 18 bottles is the most that I've hiked with, and that was with camera gear (lot o' bulk), and extra clothes and water for added training weight

mudhead
02-01-2008, 17:53
Women are smarter than the average bear.

"You go get filthy. And go swimming before you come back."

clured
02-01-2008, 18:02
DesertMTB,

I think there is a sort of "anti-trend trend," if you get my drift, with light packing. For a while, packing really light was the trendy, rebel thing to do (Ray Jardine-ish days), but then lots of people were doing it and suddenly the new rebel, trendy crowd was the retro, "I'm gonna pack super heavy because I'm a salty dog, and tougher than you" group. Hence terms like "weight weenie."

I really do understand the sentiments of people who like their luxury items on hikes; I couldn't honestly say that I was "comfortable" last summer with my pack (started at about 9lbs base, went down to like 6-7 in the middle, back up to like 10 at the end). But for me, whatever discomfort there is at night/in camp is overwhelmingly outweighed by the joy of bounding over mountains with 5 pounds on your back; one of the best days on the trail for me was the piece into Delaware Water Gap with NO food. It was like flying.

I wonder if the anti-lightweight people have every actually tried lightweight?

FeO2
02-01-2008, 18:03
UL or not to UL??

Neither... I pack what I need, then the weight is what the weight is.
Yes, the application of common sense steers everyone to lighter if affordable / practicable.

Does anyone really think that those who are not "self announced ULers" really try to add weight? hmmm.... They just don't fret about ounces.

I am anal enough that I have a fish scale and measure each piece of equipment and keep track in an excel spreadsheet, but that is NOT because I am a ULer, it is because of curiosity, and it gives me reason to play around with my gear over the winter while I plan and re-plan my spring/summer/fall hikes.

I have found it very interesting how a lot of equipment doesn't weigh what the manufacture advertises, and it all adds up.

A spread sheet is an awesome way to kill time waiting for warmer weather (not a big fan of winter hiking in NH). :-? I can pack my pack, weigh compare, etc... ya, I get geeky when I don't hike for a while.

So, the weight is what it is! I try to reduce if practical but not crazy.

1 week of gear and food is ~38lbs pack weight, not including what’s on me (poles, clothes, boots, etc...)

Tin Man
02-01-2008, 18:09
yep.

Backpacking in general is not a big market anymore.

The real money maker for REI and such is APPAREL. Jackets, pants, hats, etc.

Fashion if you will.

The rest if climbing, skiing, mtbing, camping, hiking and then backpacking (at least based on popularity of what is now popular in outdoor recreation).

I find new fashion apparel syndrome on a Scout parent coming on a trip to be very helpful in identifying them as someone to keep an eye on least they hurt themselves or one of the Scouts.

Chaco Taco
02-01-2008, 18:12
Ever since I started hiking, I never really paid to much attention to weight. I have been hiking more or less since boy scouts. Not until I found thi site did I plan so much in terms of weight. I eventually went from a big bulky Kelty Coyote Pack with 2 person tents and bulky gear, to a simple, light pack with lots of compact and compressable gear. A couple of years ago, I was carrying 50 pounds and would eventually get used to it. It wouldnt ever take away from my hike. It made me feel good to hike that far with that much weight. However, I knew I wouldnt make it from Georgia to Maine with that much. I converted over to the lighter side but am not conforming to UL. I pack what works for me and makes me comfortable. Sometimes a canister stove is better for me than an alcohol. As for the article in question, that mag always does this profile about once a year and it always brings out the debate. I live by my own philosophy of packing what works for me in the long run.

Tin Man
02-01-2008, 18:15
UL or not to UL??

Neither... I pack what I need, then the weight is what the weight is.
Yes, the application of common sense steers everyone to lighter if affordable / practicable.

Does anyone really think that those who are not "self announced ULers" really try to add weight? hmmm.... They just don't fret about ounces.

I am anal enough that I have a fish scale and measure each piece of equipment and keep track in an excel spreadsheet, but that is NOT because I am a ULer, it is because of curiosity, and it gives me reason to play around with my gear over the winter while I plan and re-plan my spring/summer/fall hikes.

I have found it very interesting how a lot of equipment doesn't weigh what the manufacture advertises, and it all adds up.

A spread sheet is an awesome way to kill time waiting for warmer weather (not a big fan of winter hiking in NH). :-? I can pack my pack, weigh compare, etc... ya, I get geeky when I don't hike for a while.

So, the weight is what it is! I try to reduce if practical but not crazy.

1 week of gear and food is ~38lbs pack weight, not including what’s on me (poles, clothes, boots, etc...)

Makes sense to me and that is exactly what I do. And the consumables make your pack weight get down to an easier level quickly.

Chaco Taco
02-01-2008, 18:16
I find new fashion apparel syndrome on a Scout parent coming on a trip to be very helpful in identifying them as someone to keep an eye on least they hurt themselves or one of the Scouts.

The fashion aspect has explodedon the scene. I live in a college town and you see North Face all over. I walked into a trail shop and someone asked me about my Golite Jacket. He had never heard of it.

Its amazing how much the hiking scene has filtered into mainstream trends

Tin Man
02-01-2008, 18:22
The fashion aspect has explodedon the scene. I live in a college town and you see North Face all over. I walked into a trail shop and someone asked me about my Golite Jacket. He had never heard of it.

Its amazing how much the hiking scene has filtered into mainstream trends

Another way to identify a newbie, apparel fashion hound.

NorthCountryWoods
02-01-2008, 18:29
Reading Backpacker Magazine and seeing other hikers I am amazed at the number of people out there still not going ultra light, or at least light.

I can see not going ultra five years ago when the gear was still way expensive.


But you can pick up a Go-lite pack for 100 bucks, alcohol stove for dirt cheap, poly pros and light clothing, etc.

What's the deal? Do people have an affection with carrying 40 to 50 pound loads?

I really don't get the contempt on this subject. :confused:
Sounds to me like you are saying people are stupid for carrying their choice of gear?
Would you like being called a wimp for carrying lite?

If they want to carry the weight...let em, if you don't....then don't!

Most of the beef and hesitation with UL gear is D-U-R-A-B-I-L-I-T-Y! It's hit or miss and still pricey for the miles you get out of it.

rafe
02-01-2008, 18:34
I really don't get the contempt on this subject. :confused:

I didn't sense any "contempt" in the original post. Certainly not enough to provoke the reactions that it has... I've seen far more contemptuous posts on WB. This one was milquetoast by WB standards. :rolleyes:

Skidsteer
02-01-2008, 18:36
I didn't sense any "contempt" in the original post. Certainly not enough to provoke the reactions that it has... I've seen far more contemptuous posts on WB. This one was milquetoast by WB standards. :rolleyes:

I agree.

It was just a question. Nothing wrong with trying to understand someone else's philosophy. Sometimes we even learn something.

NorthCountryWoods
02-01-2008, 18:55
The contempt is between UL and Heavyweights. It's worse than the white gas/canister/alcohol beef and almost as bad as the hammock/tent debate.

He said he was "amazed" at peoples choices.....not a stretch to....he strongly disapproves of them.

Tin Man
02-01-2008, 18:57
The contempt is between UL and Heavyweights. It's worse than the white gas/canister/alcohol beef and almost as bad as the hammock/tent debate.

He said he was "amazed" at peoples choices.....not a stretch to....he strongly disapproves of them.

I am amazed people get worked up over people's amazing choices. ;)

Skidsteer
02-01-2008, 19:01
The contempt is between UL and Heavyweights. It's worse than the white gas/canister/alcohol beef and almost as bad as the hammock/tent debate.

He said he was "amazed" at peoples choices.....not a stretch to....he strongly disapproves of them.

No, actually he didn't say he was amazed at people's choices:


Reading Backpacker Magazine and seeing other hikers I am amazed at the number of people out there still not going ultra light, or at least light.

ed bell
02-01-2008, 19:25
I am amazed people get worked up over people's amazing choices. ;)That's why I wonder why people care about other's packs. Don't get me wrong, asking questions and learning are the path to getting comfortable with this activity. (backpacking) I am also aware of the fact that many are instantly turned off with backpacking when they head out with a load that is beyond their comfort level. That's where the trend of lighter...lighter...lighter is a real good thing. Those with worn out knees, hips, feet and body also get a tremendous boost with the choices now available. The LD hiker gets the same help from cutting the weight. All this talk is really about comfort level. That is a highly personal decision. Someone a few posts back wondered if anti-lightweight backpackers had even tried lightweight. I scratched my head quite a bit on that one. There isn't a backpacker I know who hasn't gone on a day-hike. Thats pretty UL, no? The term anti-lightweight or whatever was said is also confusing. Is that some sort of movement to force backpackers to start carrying REAL loads?:rolleyes: Fact is that I want my fellow enthusiasts to enjoy themselves. I also want them to do so on their own terms. Whether they want to carry X lbs for Y hours doesn't really matter. Day hike, overnight, weekend, week long, section hike or thru are ALL part of hiking. I'm glad to be a part of it, regardless of what's in my pack.:sun

NorthCountryWoods
02-01-2008, 19:25
No, actually he didn't say he was amazed at people's choices:

ORly....


I am amazed at the number of people out there still not going ultra light, or at least light.


Sounds like a choice to me.:confused:

SlowLightTrek
02-01-2008, 19:41
My spring and fall base weights were about 35 lbs. last year. Pretty heavy with 8 days of food adding another 15. I have been looking for ways to cut weight without freezing to death, still have my hot coffee in the morning, and not be eaten alive by mosquitoes. In all cases lowering my weight requires money. They say $100 per lb. and that is pretty close except with homemade gear which I am leaning towards.

The worst thing I saw from the ultralighters was inadequate clothing in the event of a record low temerature or more specificly an extended record low period. Most ultralighters would complain in the morning how cold it was and I hadn't noticed at all. What are the effects of not getting a good nights sleep on your next days hike? What are the effects of hiking depleting your body of feul reserves and refeuling in towns? If ultralight means irresponsible then that is where I would draw the line.

Skidsteer
02-01-2008, 19:54
The contempt is between UL and Heavyweights. It's worse than the white gas/canister/alcohol beef and almost as bad as the hammock/tent debate.

He said he was "amazed" at peoples choices.....not a stretch to....he strongly disapproves of them.

It is a stretch. You're making an assumption, IMO, about DesertMTB's intent.


Reading Backpacker Magazine and seeing other hikers I am amazed at the number of people out there still not going ultra light, or at least light.

I can see not going ultra five years ago when the gear was still way expensive.


But you can pick up a Go-lite pack for 100 bucks, alcohol stove for dirt cheap, poly pros and light clothing, etc.

What's the deal? Do people have an affection with carrying 40 to 50 pound loads?

You could, instead, just answer the question and educate him.

Seems to me that a lot of people, not just you, got touchy about the question. Like it's nobody's business. That's as may be.

But this is a forum, not a one on one conversation. If you feel it's not his business you simply choose not to answer. :cool:

DCHiker
02-01-2008, 20:00
I posted basically the same thing regarding the post about what section hikers think of thruhikers...

Who give a ****!!!!!

I don't hike for anyone else but my enjoyment. If people want to go UL then so be it and if people don't then who cares. Hike the way you want to hike... the most important thing is you get out of the experience that you want.

Personally, I can't give up my heavy pack.... I love my thermarest and tripod chair too much :) I love tab and alcohol stoves, too. See, the best of both worlds!

Tin Man
02-01-2008, 20:13
That's why I wonder why people care about other's packs. Don't get me wrong, asking questions and learning are the path to getting comfortable with this activity. (backpacking) I am also aware of the fact that many are instantly turned off with backpacking when they head out with a load that is beyond their comfort level. That's where the trend of lighter...lighter...lighter is a real good thing. Those with worn out knees, hips, feet and body also get a tremendous boost with the choices now available. The LD hiker gets the same help from cutting the weight. All this talk is really about comfort level. That is a highly personal decision. Someone a few posts back wondered if anti-lightweight backpackers had even tried lightweight. I scratched my head quite a bit on that one. There isn't a backpacker I know who hasn't gone on a day-hike. Thats pretty UL, no? The term anti-lightweight or whatever was said is also confusing. Is that some sort of movement to force backpackers to start carrying REAL loads?:rolleyes: Fact is that I want my fellow enthusiasts to enjoy themselves. I also want them to do so on their own terms. Whether they want to carry X lbs for Y hours doesn't really matter. Day hike, overnight, weekend, week long, section hike or thru are ALL part of hiking. I'm glad to be a part of it, regardless of what's in my pack.:sun
Yup. My thought is just get out there and learn what works for you. WB members have taught me how to pack smarter, but I decided what what works for me as I am sure the reasonable discussions about gear and pack loads help others decide what works for them.

Blissful
02-01-2008, 20:17
The day 40+lbs becomes a problem for me, I'll think about it. I am aware of the weight of my gear, but I'm not gonna cut the handle to a dam toothbrush.


You forgot to dehydrate your toothpaste into tiny dots.

(never forgot that one)

Blissful
02-01-2008, 20:19
I know on weekend hikes I will carry more stuff. But right now I am not doing cruel things to the ol' bod by hiking for weeks and weeks on end. I can afford carrying extra weight. Thru hiking is punishing stuff and lightweight gear gives more of a fighting chance in finishing what you start (my knees thank me).

ed bell
02-01-2008, 20:20
I can understand wondering what's in a pack lighter than your own and wondering "What's that person doing that I'm not?". Or asking about specific gear options to cut weight, ect. I just don't understand the question in reverse. "I have a light (by my own standards) pack, why are these people still carrying X more pounds around than I do?"

ed bell
02-01-2008, 20:22
I know on weekend hikes I will carry more stuff. But right now I am not doing cruel things to the ol' bod by hiking for weeks and weeks on end. I can afford carrying extra weight. Thru hiking is punishing stuff and lightweight gear gives more of a fighting chance in finishing what you start (my knees thank me).Exactly. BTW, congratulations on your journey last year!:sun

paradoxb3
02-01-2008, 20:28
with food/water, 35-40 lbs works great for me. that way, i'm hiking at a different pace than the UL weenies. I only have to see them once in passing, and then they're gone from my life forever! :D just kidding. i REALLY dont have any preference. i'm like many of you here. i take what i think i need, and it weighs what it weighs.

i definately wont make fun of someone for carrying more/less than myself, and i dont take kindly to anyone doing so to me, however i've noticed that the first thing alot of people do when you stop to talk is start sizing up your gear.

Singe03
02-01-2008, 20:35
Skipped most of the thread, so maybe something similar has come up...

I don't hike ultra light for the simple reason that I do not want to be the one, freezing my ass off in the shelter while frantically trying to bum someone's lighter, stove, fuel, mug and hot chocolate so I can warm myself up enough to consider hiking out, if I can bum a map off of someone...

I saw ALOT of ultra light hikers start the trail in 2003, the pack thinned SIGNIFICANTLY by Damascus (and no, they were NOT getting ahead of us, they were leaving the trail)...

ed bell
02-01-2008, 20:40
Cool signature line, paradoxb3.:)

warraghiyagey
02-01-2008, 20:45
Cool signature line, paradoxb3.:)
The other morning I woke up in the living room and couldn't find my socks,
So I call information.
And the operator said, 'they're behind the couch.'
And they were.

- Steven Wright -

warraghiyagey
02-01-2008, 20:47
i'm like many of you here. i take what i think i need, and it weighs what it weighs.
.
Period. Succinctly put.:):):):)

rafe
02-01-2008, 21:03
I saw ALOT of ultra light hikers start the trail in 2003, the pack thinned SIGNIFICANTLY by Damascus (and no, they were NOT getting ahead of us, they were leaving the trail)...

The pack thins... regardless of pack weight. And anyway, how many quit because their bodies were beat up from carrying too much junk?

ed bell
02-01-2008, 21:03
"Everywhere is walking distance if you have the time." Was attributed to him on the website I checked out.:)

Blue Jay
02-01-2008, 21:06
You people seem really touchy on this subject.

What makes you think you have the right to comment at all on what we carry? Magazine Boy.

warraghiyagey
02-01-2008, 21:08
What makes you think you have the right to comment at all on what we carry? Magazine Boy.
He's still pretending he's not a Troll and waiting for apologies for people reacting to it.

rafe
02-01-2008, 21:11
He's still pretending he's not a Troll and waiting for apologies for people reacting to it.

IMO, the trolls at this point are the ones giving him endless ***** for asking an innocent question.

Blue Jay
02-01-2008, 21:12
Yeah, I'm a UL poser. What a sorry sack of **** I am.

Almost correct a poser and a sorry UL sack of............
You want to know why we don't go UL (gag), because we don't have to or want to.

Blue Jay
02-01-2008, 21:17
He said he was "amazed" at peoples choices.....not a stretch to....he strongly disapproves of them.

BINGO:banana

warraghiyagey
02-01-2008, 21:17
You want to know why we don't go UL (gag), because we don't have to or want to.
Yup. . . . . .

Omen217
02-01-2008, 21:19
I have never really made an issue of the pack, but what I put in it and what else I carry. I care more about how comfortable my load is, than how much it weighs.

Montego
02-01-2008, 21:22
I've always hiked just as many miles, only as long as I intended, and with exactly the weight I wanted to carry: no more, no less :D

warraghiyagey
02-01-2008, 21:22
I have never really made an issue of the pack, but what I put in it and what else I carry. I care more about how comfortable my load is, than how much it weighs.
Yup.:):)

Deadeye
02-01-2008, 21:36
Reading Backpacker Magazine...

Damn! We got a magazine?!?

Blue Jay
02-01-2008, 21:43
Damn! We got a magazine?!?

Yes, it's the one you get when you belong to the ATC. Ultra light weenies have Pack Sniffer Magazine (the poor guy even admitted he does not have one:banana of his own). :banana

Kirby
02-01-2008, 21:44
I carry what I please.

I carry what will make me have a nice trip.

I carry things that have some reasonable purpose for my trip.

That's it,
Kirby

Bearpaw
02-01-2008, 21:46
I work at REI. I also hike long-distance in my summers (an advantage of teaching). So I have a viewpoint on gear that is based on getting LOTS of gear dirt cheap and actually USING it.

My experience is this. For those who insist on travelling "ultralight" (and if you want to be an ultralighter, you'd better understand the "official" definition is your base weight MUST be below 10 pounds!), they are often less interested in backpacking and more interested in seeing how little stuff they can get away with in the backcountry. Nothing wrong with that. That's their thing. But you don't see many long-distance hikers doing this.

Go look on the AT. The folks going all the way have a wide range of gear, some heavier, some pretty light, but VERY few have a base weight below the arbitrary (and magical) 10 pounds. They carry some extras designed around long-term performance: A comfortable sleeping pad, a solid shelter, a bit more clothing, a real wallet, more than one map at a time, a real book, etc. And they tend to carry more food, which is simply an essential.

Then go look on the PCT. My only experience there is the John Muir Trail and Tahoe Rim Trail, but I passed a few dozen PCT'ers this summer. They had light gear in most cases, but still were noticeably above the 10 pound mark.

So the deal is, at least on a long-distance hike, conditioning and attitude are much more important than a 9 vs 17 pound base weight.

As for weekenders, Backpacker Magazine is a major CAUSE of why so many carry heavier gear. The gear they offer up is usually the same old 6+ pound empty pack and 6 pound tent. When customers come into the REI where I work, they have read Backpacker and regard it as gospel. My fedw thousand miles mean nothing to them. They regard a 3-pound pack as "too small" when they haven't even looked at their other gear yet. Well, the customer is always right, so I wind up biting my tongue and let them buy their overpriced, overheavy gear they read about in Backpacker. If they're happy with it, GREAT, at least they're out there hiking. If not, well, I offered other suggestions.............

For me, I LIKE lighter gear. In summer in the southest I may pull off 13 or so pounds base weight. On the JMT, my base was about 18-19 pounds with a bear cannister. But to pursue a 10-pound base simply to be "ultralight" doesn't have any thing to do with long-distance hiking. Getting in shape does a lot more for a hiker.

envirodiver
02-01-2008, 21:52
My name is envirodiver and I'm a gear Junkie.

"The group responds "Hi envirodiver"

Truth is that I love the changes and modifications in gear to make it lighter/better. I like talking to people about their gear and reading about gear. If I can get something at a price that I can afford that is as dependable and lighter than what I carry now for that purpose, or will be lighter and delete numerous pieces of gear from my pack. I'm all for it and will use it in a second.

But, I'm not going UL just to say that I'm UL. For one thing what's UL today will not be UL tomorrow and if you must remian UL, then break out that money stick and keep it out.

-MYST-
02-01-2008, 21:53
I work at REI. I also hike long-distance in my summers (an advantage of teaching). So I have a viewpoint on gear that is based on getting LOTS of gear dirt cheap and actually USING it.

My experience is this. For those who insist on travelling "ultralight" (and if you want to be an ultralighter, you'd better understand the "official" definition is your base weight MUST be below 10 pounds!), they are often less interested in backpacking and more interested in seeing how little stuff they can get away with in the backcountry. Nothing wrong with that. That's their thing. But you don't see many long-distance hikers doing this.

Go look on the AT. The folks going all the way have a wide range of gear, some heavier, some pretty light, but VERY few have a base weight below the arbitrary (and magical) 10 pounds. They carry some extras designed around long-term performance: A comfortable sleeping pad, a solid shelter, a bit more clothing, a real wallet, more than one map at a time, a real book, etc. And they tend to carry more food, which is simply an essential.

Then go look on the PCT. My only experience there is the John Muir Trail and Tahoe Rim Trail, but I passed a few dozen PCT'ers this summer. They had light gear in most cases, but still were noticeably above the 10 pound mark.

So the deal is, at least on a long-distance hike, conditioning and attitude are much more important than a 9 vs 17 pound base weight.

As for weekenders, Backpacker Magazine is a major CAUSE of why so many carry heavier gear. The gear they offer up is usually the same old 6+ pound empty pack and 6 pound tent. When customers come into the REI where I work, they have read Backpacker and regard it as gospel. My fedw thousand miles mean nothing to them. They regard a 3-pound pack as "too small" when they haven't even looked at their other gear yet. Well, the customer is always right, so I wind up biting my tongue and let them buy their overpriced, overheavy gear they read about in Backpacker. If they're happy with it, GREAT, at least they're out there hiking. If not, well, I offered other suggestions.............

For me, I LIKE lighter gear. In summer in the southest I may pull off 13 or so pounds base weight. On the JMT, my base was about 18-19 pounds with a bear cannister. But to pursue a 10-pound base simply to be "ultralight" doesn't have any thing to do with long-distance hiking. Getting in shape does a lot more for a hiker.


I wanted that to be the final word but I went and replied to it....

I agree totally.

Pedaling Fool
02-01-2008, 22:08
I always carry around 50+ lbs; your body gets used to it after a while.

Montego
02-01-2008, 22:21
My name is envirodiver and I'm a gear Junkie.

"The group responds "Hi envirodiver"

Truth is that I love the changes and modifications in gear to make it lighter/better. I like talking to people about their gear and reading about gear. If I can get something at a price that I can afford that is as dependable and lighter than what I carry now for that purpose, or will be lighter and delete numerous pieces of gear from my pack. I'm all for it and will use it in a second.

But, I'm not going UL just to say that I'm UL. For one thing what's UL today will not be UL tomorrow and if you must remian UL, then break out that money stick and keep it out.

Repeat after me: "I don't NEED another one" :D

envirodiver
02-01-2008, 22:24
I WANT another one...um I mean I don't NEED another one. Right I don't NEED another one.

CrumbSnatcher
02-01-2008, 22:27
Actually I never considered 25lbs ultralight. My current A.T. pack weight is 26lbs. with a 0* bag, 4 days food, a liter of water and a liter of whiskey.

IMO ultra light is 10-20lbs but then I also feel that most of those "ultralight" hikers just don't get it. Sitting around camp at the end of the day wearing the same clothes and shoes that I wore all day while eating energy bars and hoping that I will be warm enough tonight is not my idea of fun.:cool:

geek 50lb. pack kelty-super tioga,camcorder,pack guitar,my dogs gear,( including her meds,blanket,sleep pad,bowls,etc...)twenty plus every day,and have to wait for my ultra lite hiking friends to catch up
all the time. ultra light to me is down to less than 5lbs. of dog food in my pack an my whiskeys gone. geek,jack explain to the wennies

Bob S
02-01-2008, 23:46
Skipped most of the thread, so maybe something similar has come up...

I don't hike ultra light for the simple reason that I do not want to be the one, freezing my ass off in the shelter while frantically trying to bum someone's lighter, stove, fuel, mug and hot chocolate so I can warm myself up enough to consider hiking out, if I can bum a map off of someone...

I saw ALOT of ultra light hikers start the trail in 2003, the pack thinned SIGNIFICANTLY by Damascus (and no, they were NOT getting ahead of us, they were leaving the trail)...


Is this a common occurrence? The UL hikers wanting to bum someone's lighter, stove, fuel, mug and hot chocolate so they can warm themselves up? If so, after a few times doing this I think one would be less willing to let others barrow a stove or eat your food.

Bearpaw
02-02-2008, 00:00
Is this a common occurrence? The UL hikers wanting to bum someone's lighter, stove, fuel, mug and hot chocolate so they can warm themselves up? If so, after a few times doing this I think one would be less willing to let others barrow a stove or eat your food.

In 1999, there weren't much in the way of ultra-lighters, but there were many who tried to trim down everything "nonessential". They then made it a habit to borrow, bum, or bamboozle many of these "nonessentials" like first aid supplies, repair items, stoves/hot water, from others. I wouldn't call it common, but it wasn't uncommon either.

Bob S
02-02-2008, 00:03
In 1999, there weren't much in the way of ultra-lighters, but there were many who tried to trim down everything "nonessential". They then made it a habit to borrow, bum, or bamboozle many of these "nonessentials" like first aid supplies, repair items, stoves/hot water, from others. I wouldn't call it common, but it wasn't uncommon either.
Is it still going on now? 1999 was a while ago, I don’t see making a point of it if it’s a thing of the past.

ed bell
02-02-2008, 00:05
Is this a common occurrence? The UL hikers wanting to bum someone's lighter, stove, fuel, mug and hot chocolate so they can warm themselves up? If so, after a few times doing this I think one would be less willing to let others barrow a stove or eat your food.


In 1999, there weren't much in the way of ultra-lighters, but there were many who tried to trim down everything "nonessential". They then made it a habit to borrow, bum, or bamboozle many of these "nonessentials" like first aid supplies, repair items, stoves/hot water, from others. I wouldn't call it common, but it wasn't uncommon either.
For shame, for shame. I guess they had sunk below their comfort level.:-?

Bearpaw
02-02-2008, 00:15
Is it still going on now? 1999 was a while ago, I don’t see making a point of it if it’s a thing of the past.

Well apparently it IS still an issue or we wouldn't have folks complaining that maps weigh too much and if you really need one, there will always be another hiker with one to come along:http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=31410&highlight=maps

Bob S
02-02-2008, 00:37
I have not hiked the AT yet; I do backpack in Ohio and Michigan and have never run across this.

That then leads to the next question, to those of you that have had this happen, do you allow the use of your stove, food, toilet paper, map, flashlight to go take a pee or whatever? Or do you keep and use the things you packed and tell them to pack more next time?

I’m leaning toward the I would not loan out the items I packed. It’s my food to eat, my fuel for my stove that’s going to cook my food. And my toilet paper, my flashlight, and so on. I’m not their Ma Ma there to take care of them.

rafe
02-02-2008, 00:44
I met Heald in SNP this year, coming the other way. He asked me if I could spare some toilet paper. I had to say no, because my own supply was pretty low. Kinda felt bad about that afterwards. I didn't know he was a Trail God or anything...

scavenger
02-02-2008, 01:01
I keep my pack light and have never asked some cannonball-carrier to lend me gear or give me food. I don't believe y'all about ULers begging for stuff, but if you speak the truth then those guys are just newbies or dip****s and don't represent everyone else with a light pack. Plenty of newbies and dip****s with heavy packs too...

ed bell
02-02-2008, 01:09
I met Heald in SNP this year, coming the other way. He asked me if I could spare some toilet paper. I had to say no, because my own supply was pretty low. Kinda felt bad about that afterwards. I didn't know he was a Trail God or anything...You could not spare a square?:D C'mon, Trail God? I know you are joking because you never capitalize the G.:rolleyes:

Mags
02-02-2008, 01:11
My base pack weight is below 10 lbs, I hike 25-30 MPD, I am self sufficient and I dare anyone to say that I am out there just to get miles in.

I go light because I love to walk all day. To rise up with the morning light, to walk until twilight. To feel winds of the desert at sunset, to hear the elks bugle in the hours when many backpacker are still in bed. To smell the sage as dusk approaches.

I go light so I can carry more food so I can go out longer. My ten days without resupply in the High Sierra (~200 or so miles) was intense, beautiful and wonderful.


As I walk, As I walk, the universe is walking with me.

And I am able to walk all day,to walk with the universe, because my pack is light.

So yes, I do "big" days. Yes, I pack light. But gear is just ancillary to why I am out there. I am out there simply "To walk, to see, to see what I see".

I've done social hikes where I am in camp at 5pm, enjoy my vino around the campfire. But in my heart of hearts, the simple art of walking is my pleasure.

And on long hikes, going light and all day is how I do it.

Furlough
02-02-2008, 01:17
"What's the deal with not hiking ultra light? "
Why make real sausage gravy when instant is so much easier?
what's the deal with airline food?

Yeah - and now that you bring it up why do we drive on a parkway and park in a driveway??

rafe
02-02-2008, 01:18
You could not spare a square?:D

Can you get the job done with one square? Not me. :o I recall having to bum some TP back in Georgia, and hearing the stuff referred to as "mountain money." ;) Still grateful for that bit of generosity. That was the first and last time. Knocking wood as I type this.

Montego
02-02-2008, 01:21
Yeah - and now that you bring it up why do we drive on a parkway and park in a driveway??

Also, why do some of us live in apartments, when they'er all bunched together? :D

Furlough
02-02-2008, 01:37
I WANT another one...um I mean I don't NEED another one. Right I don't NEED another one.

And anyway what is wrong with owning six sleeping bags, 5 tents and 4 backpacks, afterall I have a family of 4 (I am the only backpacker) and you never know when it will be needed.

ed bell
02-02-2008, 01:50
Can you get the job done with one square? Not me. :o I recall having to bum some TP back in Georgia, and hearing the stuff referred to as "mountain money." ;) Still grateful for that bit of generosity. That was the first and last time. Knocking wood as I type this.Ms. Crowe thinks so. Look it up.:eek:

Erin
02-02-2008, 02:51
Thanks for the ultra lite discussion. I had way too much on our ATsection hike until some kind thrus went thur our stuff in town and advised me so I could leave stuff in the vehicle. I still had too much after that. Way too much food. Then I hiked out west this fall, a trip scheuled long before I had major abdominal surgery. I got the carry weight clearance two weeks before. I knew if I carried too much weight I would never make it. So I cut the weight. I was weighing stuff onthe postal meter at the ofice. My friends did not. I had a wonderful hike. One friend had so much stuff it was unbelivable. She was miserable. But learned hard, as I had leaned hard before. It made a believer out of me. I am leaning how to carry lighter and love the tips from all of the posters on this site.

warraghiyagey
02-02-2008, 03:12
But learned hard, as I had leaned hard before. .
That's how I learned, with 70lbs in the 100 mile wilderness.:o:)

rafe
02-02-2008, 08:25
my equipment weight is 32 pounds do you peeps think that is heavy?

What does that weight include?

If it includes at least 3 days worth of food and at least 1 or 2 liters of water, plus the pack itself, and all your maps and guides, (etc.) then that's a reasonable load -- but neither "light" nor "ultralight" by any standard.

It would have been a light load by 1990 norms, and a moderately heavy load by current thru-hiking norms.

The only true ultralighter that I recall from 1990 was Ward Leonard. From the shape and size of his pack, I'd guess he was carrying 15-20 lbs total. Most of us were carrying at least twice that weight (and traveling at 1/2 or 1/3 of Ward's speed.)

The OP is wrong in that regard. AT thru-hiking pack weights have come down in the last 15-20 years, I'm guessing on average by about 30%.

NorthCountryWoods
02-02-2008, 10:57
It is a stretch. You're making an assumption, IMO, about DesertMTB's intent.
You could, instead, just answer the question and educate him.

Seems to me that a lot of people, not just you, got touchy about the question. Like it's nobody's business. That's as may be.

But this is a forum, not a one on one conversation. If you feel it's not his business you simply choose not to answer. :cool:


Couldn't figure out what your problem was....

.....then clicked on your link and it all makes sense.:rolleyes:

JAK
02-02-2008, 11:42
I have more respect for someone with a baseweight of 20 pounds of too much gear, than a person with a baseweight of 10 pounds of too much gear. The former just doesn't care so much, and that's an excellent start. The latter puts so much energy into shedding weight, but still doesn't get it. That said, I can't help but have loads of respect for anyone that gets out in the woods more than I do, not matter how they do it, or what sorts of baggage they bring with them.

Skidsteer
02-02-2008, 11:53
Couldn't figure out what your problem was....

.....then clicked on your link and it all makes sense.:rolleyes:

Damn. You busted me. I'm an U.L Weenie. :rolleyes:

My point still is that the O.P. was jumped on unnecessarily. It was an innocent question. Why the attacks and piling on?

I don't get it.

NorthCountryWoods
02-02-2008, 12:08
Damn. You busted me. I'm an U.L Weenie. :rolleyes:

My point still is that the O.P. was jumped on unnecessarily. It was an innocent question. Why the attacks and piling on?

I don't get it.

I (and obviously a few others) read it as he questioning peoples choice of carrying gear.....you didn't.

If I said "I'm amazed that people still carrying UL gear", how would you interpret that?

Skidsteer
02-02-2008, 12:21
I (and obviously a few others) read it as he questioning peoples choice of carrying gear.....you didn't.

If I said "I'm amazed that people still carrying UL gear", how would you interpret that?

I would interpret that you are amazed.

If you followed up with something like:



What's the deal? Do people have an affection with carrying 40 to 50 pound loads?


...Then I would answer along the lines of:



I suspect that many folks you consider heavy are not carrying individual items that weigh much more than a light hiker's gear: They may just carry more gear items. :-?


Because Lone Wolf had already said:


yes........

Btw, I really don't qualify as an Ultralighter. Bplite was just a conveniently available domain name.

Zenstoves was already taken. :D

Almost There
02-02-2008, 13:05
I've never weighed all my krap...I have an idea of what it weighs, but I carry what I want to. My base 3 in summer weighs in right about 9lbs. I just switched out from a one person tent to what I would call a 1.5 person tent, weight didn't go up, just space for me. I don't shoot for ultralight, but when I can shave weight I do...I will say this I will never cut the handle off of my toothbrush.

CrumbSnatcher
02-02-2008, 13:27
:banana
I always thought you guys were dayhikers!!!!:D

geek thats some funny s***, thanks geek i got pepsi up my nose!

oldfivetango
02-02-2008, 14:40
nope. that's fine

Sounds like he has enough room in there for a water filter
if you ask me:D
Oldfivetango

earlyriser26
02-02-2008, 17:08
I can get my pack down to 30lbs with food for 3+ days. Anymore and I am giving up comfort. In the olden days when large reptiles wondered the trail I carried a 50lb pack. In 1971, I tried hiking the wilderness and didn't make it (early June, bugs, and I was 15 years old). My pack weight may have been a contributing factor, 85lbs without water. At least I'm making progress.

sheepdog
02-02-2008, 17:14
I'm 52, I've spent most of my money on women and backpacking equipment. I pretty much wasted the rest. :D

Heater
02-02-2008, 17:17
yes........

Yep. Lotta dumbasses out there.

How you liking your ULA Catalyst, LW?

Heater
02-02-2008, 17:25
DesertMTB,

A lot of it is people making excuses why they can not backpack ultra light or light weigh. I’ll explain, somewhere on this website someone made the excuse they could understand “not going ultra (light weight) five years when the gear was way expensive.” Now let’s look at how retarded that statement is. I’ve been backpacking sense 1989 carrying under 5 pounds base weight - cost of my equipment, around $200 - $250 total. Most hikers spend more on their backpack than I did on my entire equipment. You can imagine my reaction when someone was trying to B.S. everyone into believing it was to expensive 5 years ago and not now.

It could also be the choices people make. Some hikers don’t mind carry the extra weight and will buy equipment such a Go-lite pack rather than getting something lighter and less expensive. A 9 oz REI Flash UL for $25 works fine for long distance, but rather than doing the same they spent EXTRA MONEY and carry EXTRA WEIGHT because they want to.

I go on this belief, I don’t care how much someone else carries or how little they carry, I worry about how much I carry and that is it.

Wolf

If you are going to continue to brag on your equipment, you should have the balls to post it. But you will not. Because you have no balls. We all know that. **** you.

:banana

The Old Fhart
02-02-2008, 18:26
At least one of the posters in this thread bragging about carrying less than 10 pounds has, in other threads, bragged about two near death experiences because he wasn't carrying necessary equipment. In the Mountain Safety Workshops I'm associated with we have a saying: "you don't have to carry as much gear if you're only going one way.":rolleyes:

Roland
02-02-2008, 18:30
If you are going to continue to brag on your equipment, you should have the balls to post it. But you will not. Because you have no balls. We all know that. **** you.


Every time you post like this, we learn a little bit more about you.

Philippe
02-02-2008, 20:09
After we finish here, lets discuss whether toast should be sliced diagonally or vertically.

shelterbuilder
02-02-2008, 20:28
At least one of the posters in this thread bragging about carrying less than 10 pounds has, in other threads, bragged about two near death experiences because he wasn't carrying necessary equipment. In the Mountain Safety Workshops I'm associated with we have a saying: "you don't have to carry as much gear if you're only going one way.":rolleyes:

VERY well said.

JAK
02-02-2008, 20:51
5 pounds doesn't make much difference either way, but to set the record straight we should all be able to agree that hiking does not have to be heavy, and it does not have to be expensive, and it does not have to be unsafe.

Kirby
02-02-2008, 21:05
After we finish here, lets discuss whether toast should be sliced diagonally or vertically.

Mainers unite.

Kirby

Bearpaw
02-02-2008, 21:07
5 pounds doesn't make much difference either way, but to set the record straight we should all be able to agree that hiking does not have to be heavy, and it does not have to be expensive, and it does not have to be unsafe.

Very well put. http://www.appalachiantrailservices.com/pics/smilies/045.gif

WalkinHome
02-02-2008, 21:34
Mainers unite.

Kirby

What is our position Kirby, vertical or diagonal? I am afraid that I don't slice it at all LOL!!

WalkinHome
02-02-2008, 21:39
Here is my take on this discussion. Having had to hump radios, heavy weapons, demolition gear, nukes etc in heavy gear made by the lowest bidder while in the military at night, off trails, quietly with people after you, I consider my 40-50 pounds of AT gear UL or at least Light LOL. Course I never went to college either LOL.

JAK
02-02-2008, 21:43
Hehe
It's mildly reassuring that folks humping nukes through the dark maintain a sense of humour.

GGS2
02-02-2008, 21:46
Here is my take on this discussion. Having had to hump radios, heavy weapons, demolition gear, nukes etc in heavy gear made by the lowest bidder while in the military at night, off trails, quietly with people after you, I consider my 40-50 pounds of AT gear UL or at least Light LOL.

How were you supposed to deliver the said nukes? Drop load and double to the rear? Hope they gave you a long fuse.

t-bor
02-02-2008, 22:02
go lite go home

Kirby
02-02-2008, 22:17
What is our position Kirby, vertical or diagonal? I am afraid that I don't slice it at all LOL!!

I prefer to eat the crust first, then slowly nibble the rest of the slice.

If I had to choose, I would go with vertigonal.

Kirby

sheepdog
02-02-2008, 22:42
You must slice bread length wise. Other wise you are cutting against the grain. :D

take-a-knee
02-02-2008, 22:52
How were you supposed to deliver the said nukes? Drop load and double to the rear? Hope they gave you a long fuse.

They were called "Strategic-Atomic-Demolition-and- Munitions"(SADAM). They were delivered by SF teams called "greenlight" teams. These would be better known as "suitcase nukes". Bush the elder did away with them along with many other things. They were just a bit more too sophisticated to require a fuse.

Montego
02-02-2008, 22:55
But where do 'ya plug the toaster in, or do 'ya use a solar powered one? :D

GGS2
02-02-2008, 23:44
They were called "Strategic-Atomic-Demolition-and- Munitions"(SADAM). They were delivered by SF teams called "greenlight" teams. These would be better known as "suitcase nukes". Bush the elder did away with them along with many other things. They were just a bit more too sophisticated to require a fuse.

That's kinda what I thought. Rather like hauling a 155mm shell around, I guess. Not exactly UL or LNT. Don't know how useful that experience would be in civilian backpacking. Nevertheless, I'm glad to hear you got home again safely with no loud bangs.

ed bell
02-03-2008, 00:35
5 pounds doesn't make much difference either way, but to set the record straight we should all be able to agree that hiking does not have to be heavy, and it does not have to be expensive, and it does not have to be unsafe.Amen. Last thing I want to see is someone backpacking with a plastic grocery bag containing a bit of food, an 8'X10' sheet of saran wrap and........ nothing else, but I have said that I don't care what others carry. I guess I just want people to be responsible enough to keep others from having to bail their a**es out when the **** hits the fan.

Wolf - 23000
02-03-2008, 12:00
At least one of the posters in this thread bragging about carrying less than 10 pounds has, in other threads, bragged about two near death experiences because he wasn't carrying necessary equipment. In the Mountain Safety Workshops I'm associated with we have a saying: "you don't have to carry as much gear if you're only going one way.":rolleyes:

Oh Really. Sense you know my equipment all so well, what equipment did you see that I was missing? Please do tell. I don’t believe I have ever posted it on line or shown you in person what I carry on the trail. Please do tell where you are getting your information from?

When I was carrying less than 10 pounds of gear, I was never in any near death experiences.


To make a statement that I wasn’t carrying something I should have without ever seeing my gear might give people the belief you were a LIAR or straight out full of *****.


I have been in some bad spots just like many people here, but I have never required Search and Rescue to come out to get my butt out. How many times have you called S&R?



In the Mountain Safety Workshops that you are associated with, I guess they also don't have to tell the truth.
Wolf

Wolf - 23000
02-03-2008, 12:09
If you are going to continue to brag on your equipment, you should have the balls to post it. But you will not. Because you have no balls. We all know that. **** you.

:banana

Austexs,

Give it a break. My point was only the equipment has been around for years and it can be done inexpensive. Nothing more. I just don't like it when people B.S. others into believing something else.

Wolf

dessertrat
02-03-2008, 12:09
After we finish here, lets discuss whether toast should be sliced diagonally or vertically.

Diagonally. Anyone who doesn't agree can go to hell.

Heater
02-03-2008, 12:21
Every time you post like this, we learn a little bit more about you.

I am a very complex person. ;) :D

Heater
02-03-2008, 12:26
Oh Really. Sense you know my equipment all so well, what equipment did you see that I was missing? Please do tell. I don’t believe I have ever posted it on line or shown you in person what I carry on the trail. Please do tell where you are getting your information from?

When I was carrying less than 10 pounds of gear, I was never in any near death experiences.


To make a statement that I wasn’t carrying something I should have without ever seeing my gear might give people the belief you were a LIAR or straight out full of *****.


I have been in some bad spots just like many people here, but I have never required Search and Rescue to come out to get my butt out. How many times have you called S&R?



In the Mountain Safety Workshops that you are associated with, I guess they also don't have to tell the truth.
Wolf

Paying attention, Roland? ;)

Roland
02-03-2008, 12:30
Paying attention, Roland? ;)

Yes, I'm paying attention. What's your point?

mudhead
02-03-2008, 12:31
Diagonally. Anyone who doesn't agree can go to hell.

Why would you cut toast?

Heater
02-03-2008, 12:31
Yes, I'm paying attention. What's your point?

It's WHOOOOSH! :rolleyes:

Roland
02-03-2008, 12:32
It's WHOOOOSH! :rolleyes:

Too complex for me, apparently.

Heater
02-03-2008, 12:35
Too complex for me, apparently.

Heh heh. I don't think so. But it will become apparent.

Heater
02-03-2008, 12:37
Heh heh. I don't think so. But it will become apparent.

P.S. I you need a clue, PM me.

Captn
02-03-2008, 12:38
When I was carrying less than 10 pounds of gear, I was never in any near death experiences.


Wolf

My last section hike I hooked up with three young guys from the midwest, one of which professed to being a boyscout.

All three were carrying 65 lb packs, complete with Jeans, lots of cotton, enameled metal cookwear, and can goods.

I hung with them for a couple of days and showed them some better techniques ... including when one of them went into stage 1 Hypothermia and his buddies had no clue.

Funny ... that with my 8 lb baseweight, and 20 lb pack, that I gave them a lot of stuff, like medications, my spare balaclava, spare food, etc.

To purely equate safety with pack weight is pretty arrogant if you ask me because it's easy to stuff a pack full of the wrong stuff. It's experience that tells you how to pick the right stuff, irregardless of weight.

The Old Fhart
02-03-2008, 12:57
TOF-"At least one of the posters in this thread bragging about carrying less than 10 pounds has, in other threads, bragged about two near death experiences because he wasn't carrying necessary equipment."

Wolf23000-"Oh Really.
..."When I was carrying less than 10 pounds of gear, I was never in any near death experiences. ""Then if you were carrying more than 10 pounds of gear when you admitted to having your near-death experiences, then you are even more incompetent and reckless than first thought, all while hiking alone.:rolleyes:

Wolf23000-
-Several times I had to cross half frozen streams or found myself standing in several feet of water.
-Some of my most not so magic memory was going through the 100-mile wilderness and my water bottle broke inside my sleeping bag while it – 25 below 0. I was 40 miles into the wilderness going south.
-Coming off of the Bigelow, my snowshoe snapped in half.
-I had a bruise from hell from that one.
-I hike alone mainly because I can never find anyone to go with me and two there were I few times, I really had to push or just bare through some not so great places that even the most of the hard core hikers would have given in.
-It a little difficult to see bog bridges while their several feet under snow hint why I was in several feet of water.:D:D

Heater
02-03-2008, 13:03
Then if you were carrying more than 10 pounds of gear when you admitted to having your near-death experiences, then you are even more incompetent and reckless than first thought, all while hiking alone.:rolleyes:
:D:D

Still paying attention... Roland? :D

Heeeeere we go...

lonehiker
02-03-2008, 13:04
Then if you were carrying more than 10 pounds of gear when you admitted to having your near-death experiences, then you are even more incompetent and reckless than first thought, all while hiking alone.:rolleyes:
:D:D

Maybe it's me but nowhere in that quote do I see Wolf saying that he was in a "near" death experience.

rafe
02-03-2008, 13:08
Maybe it's me but nowhere in that quote do I see Wolf saying that he was in a "near" death experience.

I believe it's a reference to other, older threads. Wolf_23000 is notorious for hiking super ultra light, but has never posted corresponding gear lists for those SUL loads. (I'm not taking a position on whether he should do so, by the way.)

Wolf - 23000
02-03-2008, 13:54
At least one of the posters in this thread bragging about carrying less than 10 pounds has, in other threads, bragged about two near death experiences because he wasn't carrying necessary equipment. In the Mountain Safety Workshops I'm associated with we have a saying: "you don't have to carry as much gear if you're only going one way.":rolleyes:


Then if you were carrying more than 10 pounds of gear when you admitted to having your near-death experiences, then you are even more incompetent and reckless than first thought, all while hiking alone.:rolleyes:
:D:D

You still have not answered my questions, so I will ask again, what equipment was I missing? You made the statement that I wasn’t “carrying necessary equipment”. Back it up if you can, or else stop B.S. people.

If the Mountain Safety Workshops you are associated with judges a backpacker base on how much weight they carry, they can’t be very knowledgeable. I’m not the only one to figure that out either. Captn with his 8 pound-base-weight for example, help out some backpackers that were carrying a lot more than him. He was more prepared than they were even while carrying less weight.

And please do tell, how many times have you called Search & Rescue with your larger pack?

Wolf

lonehiker
02-03-2008, 14:03
I believe it's a reference to other, older threads. Wolf_23000 is notorious for hiking super ultra light, but has never posted corresponding gear lists for those SUL loads. (I'm not taking a position on whether he should do so, by the way.)

I rarely get into banter, but, would someone explain to me why he should post his gear list. Is it a question of integrity? Is his word in question here?

Heater
02-03-2008, 14:08
You still have not answered my questions, so I will ask again, what equipment was I missing?

Well.. We will ask yet again... "What equipment were you carrying"? Tell us! Pretty simple question there, wolfie! :-?

Post your gear list!

The Old Fhart
02-03-2008, 14:22
Wolf - 23000-"You still have not answered my questions, so I will ask again, what equipment was I missing? You made the statement that I wasn’t “carrying necessary equipment”. Back it up if you can, or else stop B.S. people."Already answered.

The Old Fhart-"Then if you were carrying more than 10 pounds of gear when you admitted to having your near-death experiences, then you are even more incompetent and reckless than first thought, all while hiking alone.:rolleyes:"You could mention your LT trip about 15 years ago to the day when I hear you had another of your 'interesting experiences'.:D

Personally I could care less what you carry, you're the superhiker bragging about your gear and your super abilities while at the same time posting about all the 'accidents' you have or almost freezing to death multiple times while claiming you're prepared. I look at your antics as natural selection.:D

The last time you got into trying to impress everyone of your powers, and you were losing, you fabricated what you said was a 'quote' from me to try to make yourself look believable, and that didn't work either. In all the years I've been on WB, that is the only time I've seen anyone stoop so low as to try to fake a quote. But of course that fits right in with the rest of your character.

Panzer1
02-03-2008, 14:37
I need my things to be happy.

When I bought my GG Nimbus Ozone it weighed 3 pounds. I added 6 ounces worth of pockets to the outside not because I needed them but because I have to have pockets to be happy on the trail. And that means adding weight.

Weight is very important but you still have to have the things you want to be happy on the trail. Its not just a matter of what I need, its a matted of what I want.

Panzer

mystic
02-03-2008, 15:13
The funniest night I spent on the trail was listening to 2 ultralight hikers talk about their gear and criticizing mine. It seems like they could ramble on for hours about cutting off tags, shortening straps, mutilating toothbrush handles, etc...

And throughout the entire conversation all I could think was "Umm... guys, have you looked at that 20 pound spare tire you have on your hips?".

Worrying about a gram of paper cut from the edge of map is hilarious when you weigh 210.

The downside to these people is when they give irresponsible advice. I have read a lot of people stating that there is no need for: compass, maps, first aid, extra clothes, knife, sleeping bag, spare food, water.

If you plan to hike for 5 days you are going to be carrying:
1.5lbs food per day = 10lbs (couple days spare food)
2 liters of water = 4.4lbs
So your buy-in is about 15lbs with no gear.

In the end it is what you are comfortable with while staying safe.

Panzer1
02-03-2008, 15:31
1.5lbs food per day = 10lbs (couple days spare food)I carry about 2 pounds of food for a day. I guess it depends on what you are eating. I carry heavy stuff like apples, cheese, peanut butter, 18 ounces of bacon, chocolate, ect. These can easily up your weight to 2 pounds or more a day for food.

Panzer
and I always carry and extra day of food just in case.

Bootstrap
02-03-2008, 15:31
But you can pick up a Go-lite pack for 100 bucks, alcohol stove for dirt cheap, poly pros and light clothing, etc.

What's the deal? Do people have an affection with carrying 40 to 50 pound loads?

A lot of the main sources of information for new backpackers steer you down the 40+ pound route.

Go to an REI store and tell them you need enough gear for a 3 day backpacking trip, see what they try to sell you. Or look at the pack lists for many beginning backpacking trips.

I stayed with the same gear for years, I'm lightening up now, but will probably get down to about 30-32 pounds including everything for a 3-4 day trip. That's well below the 45 pounds I carried for several years. I hate discarding perfectly good equipment, but the savings is worth it!

Jonathan

Bootstrap
02-03-2008, 15:41
DesertMTB,

A lot of it is people making excuses why they can not backpack ultra light or light weight.

Excuses? Do we now have to justify our equipment choices to other people? Aren't we allowed to hike with the equipment we think best?



It could also be the choices people make. Some hikers don’t mind carry the extra weight and will buy equipment such a Go-lite pack rather than getting something lighter and less expensive.

This is true - I was not aware that there were so many good, cheap, lighweight choices until I came on WhiteBlaze.


Jonathan

rafe
02-03-2008, 15:41
and I always carry and extra day of food just in case.

That's been the conventional wisdom since the dawn of time, but I begin to wonder if it's really necessary on the AT (and particularly in mild weather.) I mean, how many folks are going to starve from a 1-day fast? In my case, it would probably do some good. ;) I got a bit of a kick this summer seeing how close I could plan my food supply. "Success" was a food bag that was danged near empty when I got to my next resupply point.

Bootstrap
02-03-2008, 15:48
Why would you cut toast?

If you cut off the crust, you can save 0.023 grams.

Jonathan

camojack
02-03-2008, 15:56
If you cut off the crust, you can save 0.023 grams.
Jonathan
Good one.

Regarding this whole thread, the original post was a bit condescending. Whatever became of the HYOH mindset? :confused:

Bootstrap
02-03-2008, 15:57
So the deal is, at least on a long-distance hike, conditioning and attitude are much more important than a 9 vs 17 pound base weight.

I used to have 30 as my base weight, and routinely carried 45. I can do it, but I'm working my way down to 15-20 as my base weight, for a total of 30-35. Not UL at all, but I think this will make it easier to do more distance in tough terrain.

I think there's a weight vs. speed tradeoff. You can carry as much as you want if you are willing to go slower ....

Jonathan

aaroniguana
02-03-2008, 16:02
I started out a dedicated gram weenie. I made a lot of my own gear, spent a few years collecting stuff, trying what works, shelving what didn't. Like most of you. Then recently when I realized how short and precious life is I am re-evaluating my methods so as to enjoy my hike and not sweat the small stuff. Because as Richard Carlson said, "It's all small stuff".

I'll still hike light (someday). I'm taking things to make my hike pleasurable (like a camera, a book and a small LED lantern). But I'm not weighing anything. And I'm not worrying about it. HYOH.

Bootstrap
02-03-2008, 16:05
I’m leaning toward the I would not loan out the items I packed. It’s my food to eat, my fuel for my stove that’s going to cook my food. And my toilet paper, my flashlight, and so on. I’m not their Ma Ma there to take care of them.

If someone's in bad shape and needs help, and I can easily help, I'll do that. Suppose someone is running out of food, it's cold and rainy, and I'm concerned about them getting to a place where they can get enough food to keep going - I am not going to lecture that person, I'll assume they have just learned to pack more food next time. But I don't pack enough extra food to give much.

If they are just bumming stuff they wish they had packed, it depends a lot on my mood and how they come across.

Jonathan

shelterbuilder
02-03-2008, 16:10
I started out a dedicated gram weenie. I made a lot of my own gear, spent a few years collecting stuff, trying what works, shelving what didn't. Like most of you. Then recently when I realized how short and precious life is I am re-evaluating my methods so as to enjoy my hike and not sweat the small stuff. Because as Richard Carlson said, "It's all small stuff".

I'll still hike light (someday). I'm taking things to make my hike pleasurable (like a camera, a book and a small LED lantern). But I'm not weighing anything. And I'm not worrying about it. HYOH.

AMEN to that! Personally, I find that I will hike just about as far with 40 pounds as I will with 30, but I enjoy the day more with 30, and I arrive with more energy left over. But, there are sometimes when heavier is necessary....

kayak karl
02-03-2008, 16:10
I started out a dedicated gram weenie. I made a lot of my own gear, spent a few years collecting stuff, trying what works, shelving what didn't. Like most of you. Then recently when I realized how short and precious life is I am re-evaluating my methods so as to enjoy my hike and not sweat the small stuff. Because as Richard Carlson said, "It's all small stuff".

I'll still hike light (someday). I'm taking things to make my hike pleasurable (like a camera, a book and a small LED lantern). But I'm not weighing anything. And I'm not worrying about it. HYOH.
good for you:)
You live longer once you realize that any time spent being unhappy is wasted. ~Ruth E. Renkl

rafe
02-03-2008, 16:15
You can carry as much as you want if you are willing to go slower ....

That is very true.

Kirby
02-03-2008, 16:42
You know, you could also save 3-5 pounds by carrying everything in your hands and not using a backpack, but that would be stupid and irrational.

Kirby

rafe
02-03-2008, 17:20
You know, you could also save 3-5 pounds by carrying everything in your hands and not using a backpack, but that would be stupid and irrational.

Kirby, have you read "A Walk in the Woods?"

There's this scene in a shelter in the Smokies. Some hiker asks Bryson, "So what made you buy a Gregory pack?" Bryson answers, "Well, I thought it would be easier than carrying all this gear in my arms." ;)

aaroniguana
02-03-2008, 17:23
And they say he's not an arrogant ass...

rafe
02-03-2008, 17:29
And they say he's not an arrogant ass...

Well, if you're referring to Bryson's retort, I'd say it was brilliant. :D

clured
02-03-2008, 17:35
The funniest night I spent on the trail was listening to 2 ultralight hikers talk about their gear and criticizing mine. It seems like they could ramble on for hours about cutting off tags, shortening straps, mutilating toothbrush handles, etc...

And throughout the entire conversation all I could think was "Umm... guys, have you looked at that 20 pound spare tire you have on your hips?".

Worrying about a gram of paper cut from the edge of map is hilarious when you weigh 210.

The downside to these people is when they give irresponsible advice. I have read a lot of people stating that there is no need for: compass, maps, first aid, extra clothes, knife, sleeping bag, spare food, water.

If you plan to hike for 5 days you are going to be carrying:
1.5lbs food per day = 10lbs (couple days spare food)
2 liters of water = 4.4lbs
So your buy-in is about 15lbs with no gear.

In the end it is what you are comfortable with while staying safe.

5x5 = 25, and not very many people count water weight when talking about packweight because it is constantly fluctuating as you fill up and drink down the load.

And there's no need to ever carry 5 days of food on the AT. The longest section I did unsupported last summer was from Franklin to Hot Springs, but that was just for kicks to see if I could; after Harper's Ferry I never carried more than 3 days, often 2 or even less.

And I also think the idea of the toothbrush-dissecting, map-cutting, tag-clipping UL-er is a little off target. If you're into that stuff more power to you, but 95% of the time, lightweight packing means tarp instead of tent, GoLite pack instead of Osprey, no camp shoes, no stove/can stove, AM instead of filter, etc.

Spare food is a meaningless idea on the AT, except maybe (not really) in the 100-miles (there's a hostel..). I bet you cross hitch-able roads about every ten miles on average on the AT. And extra clothing is not needed in the three seasons. Maybe in winter, especially if you are inexperienced, but the worst that could happen is a little friendly hypothermia in the summer.

rafe
02-03-2008, 17:38
And there's no need to ever carry 5 days of food on the AT.

Maybe Abol Bridge to Monson... or if you're trying to get thru the Smokies without resupply.

shelterbuilder
02-03-2008, 17:50
... And there's no need to ever carry 5 days of food on the AT....

Yes, but how many people do carry 5 days (or more) just to be able to STAY in the woods a little longer? I know that this is (or used to be) more common among section hikers, but do many thru's do it?

Big_I
02-03-2008, 17:50
Lower base weight and compact items ---> more room for more beer/whiskey/rum

Kirby
02-03-2008, 17:51
Kirby, have you read "A Walk in the Woods?"

There's this scene in a shelter in the Smokies. Some hiker asks Bryson, "So what made you buy a Gregory pack?" Bryson answers, "Well, I thought it would be easier than carrying all this gear in my arms." ;)

The interaction Bryson had with that hiker was one of the best parts of the whole book. Every time I read it, it cracks me up.

Kirby

Bootstrap
02-03-2008, 17:53
And I also think the idea of the toothbrush-dissecting, map-cutting, tag-clipping UL-er is a little off target. If you're into that stuff more power to you, but 95% of the time, lightweight packing means tarp instead of tent, GoLite pack instead of Osprey, no camp shoes, no stove/can stove, AM instead of filter, etc.

I like a tarp, but I use an Osprey, carry Crocs for camp shoes, and use a filter because I really appreciate the taste of water that has not been chemically treated. (I have a well here at home too, I'm just not used to that chemical taste, even if it is mild.) I'm willing to carry the extra weight for these decisions ...


Spare food is a meaningless idea on the AT, except maybe (not really) in the 100-miles (there's a hostel..).

I am not a thru-hiker, but if I'm hiking 2-4 days, I always plan for a little more food than I will use for that section, enough for an extra 1/2 day. Wouldn't that make sense on sections of the AT?

Jonathan

Big_I
02-03-2008, 17:53
"The downside to these people is when they give irresponsible advice. I have read a lot of people stating that there is no need for: compass, maps, first aid, extra clothes, knife, sleeping bag, spare food, water."

---UL hikers never advocate most of what you said. Try advocating that on the forums at backpackinglight.com and you would be cussed out.

WalkinHome
02-03-2008, 19:00
How were you supposed to deliver the said nukes? Drop load and double to the rear? Hope they gave you a long fuse.

Unlike the Soviets, who actually had nuke mortar rounds (they carried ineffective pills with them that were supposed to mitigate the effects of radiation) Uncle provided us with quite long term fuses. The Soviets also had their version of the "suitcase" nukes. The funny thing is, Uncle had always put forward the position that our nukes were to be used purely for "defensive" purposes. Then the lid blew off the existence of the SADMs (pun intended) and boy was their face red!!

Note - substitute Special for Strategic.

Frolicking Dinosaurs
02-03-2008, 19:05
Is there such a thing as an ultralight mortar round :confused:

Wolf - 23000
02-03-2008, 19:07
Already answered.
You could mention your LT trip about 15 years ago to the day when I hear you had another of your 'interesting experiences'.:D

Where!??????? :-? Where in any of your post have you identified what equipment that I was supposedly “missing”? Come on, due tell. Or were you referring to your statement “Already answered.” with my statement that you were “straight out full of *****.”


The trip up on the LT that I believe you are referring to happen after getting hit with a bad storm. Every hiker who been out for a while has been in some bad storms and the equipment I had saved my life. Big Deal.



Personally I could care less what you carry, you're the superhiker bragging about your gear and your super abilities while at the same time posting about all the 'accidents' you have or almost freezing to death multiple times while claiming you're prepared. I look at your antics as natural selection.:D

Oh, but you do. :eek: You seem to be determined to attack me for the way I do things with half truths or miss leading statements. You try to impress everyone with your vast knowledge being associated with the Mountain Safety Workshops. If you work as a janitor that doesn’t make you an expert - an instructor would know better than to criticized someone equipment list without ever seeing it,



The last time you got into trying to impress everyone of your powers, and you were losing, you fabricated what you said was a 'quote' from me to try to make yourself look believable, and that didn't work either. In all the years I've been on WB, that is the only time I've seen anyone stoop so low as to try to fake a quote. But of course that fits right in with the rest of your character.

Quotes don’t lie and it had your name next to it. :D If you recall, I gave you the chance to retract your uneducated statement. Rather than taking credit for your own post, you choice to deny making it. I don’t blame you, I wouldn’t admit to making some of the uneducated statements you have either. You are a better writer than myself, and you may have a future in writing fair-tales, but as an educator you failed.

You seem so quick to point out my 'interesting experiences', but won’t fest up to having any of your own. Could it be you have only been out in good weather or afraid that others might see that you don’t have all the answers.:-?

Wolf

Bearpaw
02-03-2008, 19:09
Is there such a thing as an ultralight mortar round :confused:

A round for a 60mm mortar is the same as a Nalgene full of water, just a bit over 2 pounds. That's BANG for your buck!

WalkinHome
02-03-2008, 19:10
Is there such a thing as an ultralight mortar round :confused:

That would be the one that is "shot out". LOL

rafe
02-03-2008, 19:13
Yes, but how many people do carry 5 days (or more) just to be able to STAY in the woods a little longer? I know that this is (or used to be) more common among section hikers, but do many thru's do it?

SB -- I carried way too much food on my first 100+ mile section about six years ago. I noticed that the thru-hikers I met were going with shorter-term resupply, and adopted that strategy. I like "being in the woods" and all, but I was determined, by then, to finish the trail eventually. I knew that I'd need to pick up the pace in order to do that.

I met one young section hiker this summer (he was on a 1000-mile section, roughly) who told me he had 2 weeks worth of food in his pack. His motivation was time and $$. He didn't want to waste time in towns and didn't want the temptation to spend $$ in town. He was also in a bit of a hurry.

GGS2
02-03-2008, 19:17
Is there such a thing as an ultralight mortar round :confused:

Reminds me of a classic drill square punishment from the WW II era, navy style. Fall out, double over to the "projectile" and pick it up. The said object was a 3" navel rifle projectile. The victim would pick it up easily and stand there grinning. For a few minutes. Then the projectile would get heavier and heavier, and the smooth metal would get slipperier and slipperier, and it would sag lower and lower, and the smile would turn to a mask of terror as gravity worked inexorably. The victim would have fantasies of what diabolical terror would await if he were to drop the thing. But inevitably, just before that calamity, the drill sgt would turn and order "Down projectile," and the poor slob would double wobbly back into formation and try not to collapse for the rest of the drill. So far as I know, there is no such thing as an ultralight projectile of any sort.

Appalachian Tater
02-03-2008, 19:20
The funniest night I spent on the trail was listening to 2 ultralight hikers talk about their gear and criticizing mine. It seems like they could ramble on for hours about cutting off tags, shortening straps, mutilating toothbrush handles, etc...

And throughout the entire conversation all I could think was "Umm... guys, have you looked at that 20 pound spare tire you have on your hips?".

Worrying about a gram of paper cut from the edge of map is hilarious when you weigh 210.

The downside to these people is when they give irresponsible advice. I have read a lot of people stating that there is no need for: compass, maps, first aid, extra clothes, knife, sleeping bag, spare food, water.

If you plan to hike for 5 days you are going to be carrying:
1.5lbs food per day = 10lbs (couple days spare food)
2 liters of water = 4.4lbs
So your buy-in is about 15lbs with no gear.

In the end it is what you are comfortable with while staying safe.

I never heard an ultra-light hiker criticize someone else's gear and some of them were reluctant to talk about their own gear even when asked. In addition, the true ultra-lighters I have met all appeared to be very fit.

Wolf - 23000
02-03-2008, 19:21
Well.. We will ask yet again... "What equipment were you carrying"? Tell us! Pretty simple question there, wolfie! :-?

Post your gear list!

Austexs,

Maybe you should ask The Old Fhart. He seems to want to act like he studied everything I carry and do. I don't want to get into it but I don't like it when irresponsible people try to criticize others for something they know nothing about.

Wolf

JAK
02-03-2008, 19:38
A round for a 60mm mortar is the same as a Nalgene full of water, just a bit over 2 pounds. That's BANG for your buck!Do 60mm mortar rounds contain very much Bisphenol A?

Wolf - 23000
02-03-2008, 19:43
Excuses? Do we now have to justify our equipment choices to other people? Aren't we allowed to hike with the equipment we think best?



This is true - I was not aware that there were so many good, cheap, lighweight choices until I came on WhiteBlaze.


[/color]Jonathan

Bootstrap,

My statement was made being sarcastic toward DesertMTB trying to act like the equipment has only been around for the last 5 years or self proclaim “ultra-light-hikers” who try to tell everyone what gear they should carry. I personal don’t care what someone else carries.:)

Wolf

JAK
02-03-2008, 19:49
There is just as much risk of being in more danger by carrying too much of the wrong stuff as with carrying too little of the right stuff. Also less experienced people are more likely to spend too much on the wrong kind of gear that weighs too much. However, the bottom line is, the weight of your gear and the cost of your gear one way or the other, is a very poor indicator of whether you are more experienced or less experienced, or more safe or less safe than the next person. Even experienced people differ on how much and what type of clothing and gear they like to carry.

But for the record, anyone that doesn't do exactly what I do is wrong.

JAK
02-03-2008, 19:52
I got Wolf-23000's point totally, and made the same point even before he did.
People just jumped all over Wolf-23000 because its what they do every time this comes up.

Its always been possible to be ultralight cheap and safe, and people have been doing it forever.

JAK
02-03-2008, 19:56
The real inovation of the past 60 years in backpacking as in everything else has been in how to get consumers to pay too much money for too much stuff they don't need and feel good about doing it over and over again. Ultralight hiking is not knew. Ultra-stupid hiking arguably is a post WWII phenomena, though arguable there were some early pioneers before then.

Wolf - 23000
02-03-2008, 20:01
"The downside to these people is when they give irresponsible advice. I have read a lot of people stating that there is no need for: compass, maps, first aid, extra clothes, knife, sleeping bag, spare food, water."

---UL hikers never advocate most of what you said. Try advocating that on the forums at backpackinglight.com and you would be cussed out.

Big_I,

I think it depends on the person what is needed and what is not needed. You are right, there are many irresponsible hikers that love to tell others what they should or should not carry. Many of them if you really talk with, have very limited knowledge on the gear they are using or limit to when and were they can hike.

Wolf

Wolf - 23000
02-03-2008, 20:03
I got Wolf-23000's point totally, and made the same point even before he did.
People just jumped all over Wolf-23000 because its what they do every time this comes up.

Its always been possible to be ultralight cheap and safe, and people have been doing it forever.

Thank you JAK.

Wolf

Bearpaw
02-03-2008, 20:04
Do 60mm mortar rounds contain very much Bisphenol A?

No, but they can hurt you MUCH more quickly than any amount of BPA. ;)

rigglett
02-03-2008, 20:07
Glad to see that all forms of backpacking are discussed (and debated) here.

WTG, Wolf 23000. Don't let anyone else tell you what needs to be in your pack. You've hiked enough to know.

slow
02-03-2008, 21:12
You still have not answered my questions, so I will ask again, what equipment was I missing? You made the statement that I wasn’t “carrying necessary equipment”. Back it up if you can, or else stop B.S. people.

If the Mountain Safety Workshops you are associated with judges a backpacker base on how much weight they carry, they can’t be very knowledgeable. I’m not the only one to figure that out either. Captn with his 8 pound-base-weight for example, help out some backpackers that were carrying a lot more than him. He was more prepared than they were even while carrying less weight.

And please do tell, how many times have you called Search & Rescue with your larger pack?

Wolf

I know the last time they?:mad:

Just carry on and enjoy.:sun

River Runner
02-03-2008, 21:41
I think one reason many people carry gear that isn't 'light' is that it is what is readily available from a store. A secondary reason would be cost - a stainless steel pot is generally less expensive than a titanium one. And if they aren't experienced and/or internet addicted, they probably don't realize they can just use a beer can for a pot or a gatoraide bottle instead of a Nalgene.

Some eventually see the 'light' and start replacing their gear with lighter alternatives. Some feel very comfortable with their original gear and feel no need to replace.

I don't think that having a heavy pack necessarily means being more prepared. I pack as light as I can without sacrificing safety or relative comfort. But I don't take extras I don't really need. I don't need a book - the outdoors is enough for me to study, and by the end of the day I'm usually content to just listen to the night sounds as I drift off to sleep. I do carry a camera - I consider it a need so I can take photos to remind me of the wonderful places I've been, although some I suppose might consider that an extra. I don't take extra clothing just to have something clean to wear around camp, but I do take an extra base layer to have something dry to sleep in and enough insulation to stay warm below the lowest temperature I expect.

I have spent extra money for light weight sleeping bags, hammock, etc., but I consider it a good investment because I use it often. I use a beer can pot & light esbit stove now, and it boils my water fast enough to suit me. I freezer bag cook so I don't spend time on clean up that I can spend contemplating and enjoying just being outdoors.

Even though my pack is relatively light, I can say that I have loaned things out to many hikers with heavier packs - a photon light, bandaids, moleskin, given some food, hand warmers, and even a sleeping pad once (I had a quilt for my hammock but brought a thin light pad just in case it was colder than I felt comfortable.)

In my experience, I have never seen an 'ultralight' packer have to bum anything they were just too weight stingy to bring. I will add that sometimes (not always) a heavy weight packer traveling with a group can become a real liability on a trip. They can slow the group up to the point it is difficult to reach the planned destination before dark, or others may have to end up carrying out some of their gear when blisters (aggravated by the heavy load) cause their progress to slow too much. I have personally seen both of these happen (and helped pack out some of the 'too heavy' gear). I will add the caveat these are usually beginning backpackers rather than those with experience.

slow
02-03-2008, 22:05
I think one reason many people carry gear that isn't 'light' is that it is what is readily available from a store. A secondary reason would be cost - a stainless steel pot is generally less expensive than a titanium one. And if they aren't experienced and/or internet addicted, they probably don't realize they can just use a beer can for a pot or a gatoraide bottle instead of a Nalgene.

Some eventually see the 'light' and start replacing their gear with lighter alternatives. Some feel very comfortable with their original gear and feel no need to replace.

I don't think that having a heavy pack necessarily means being more prepared. I pack as light as I can without sacrificing safety or relative comfort. But I don't take extras I don't really need. I don't need a book - the outdoors is enough for me to study, and by the end of the day I'm usually content to just listen to the night sounds as I drift off to sleep. I do carry a camera - I consider it a need so I can take photos to remind me of the wonderful places I've been, although some I suppose might consider that an extra. I don't take extra clothing just to have something clean to wear around camp, but I do take an extra base layer to have something dry to sleep in and enough insulation to stay warm below the lowest temperature I expect.

I have spent extra money for light weight sleeping bags, hammock, etc., but I consider it a good investment because I use it often. I use a beer can pot & light esbit stove now, and it boils my water fast enough to suit me. I freezer bag cook so I don't spend time on clean up that I can spend contemplating and enjoying just being outdoors.

Even though my pack is relatively light, I can say that I have loaned things out to many hikers with heavier packs - a photon light, bandaids, moleskin, given some food, hand warmers, and even a sleeping pad once (I had a quilt for my hammock but brought a thin light pad just in case it was colder than I felt comfortable.)

In my experience, I have never seen an 'ultralight' packer have to bum anything they were just too weight stingy to bring. I will add that sometimes (not always) a heavy weight packer traveling with a group can become a real liability on a trip. They can slow the group up to the point it is difficult to reach the planned destination before dark, or others may have to end up carrying out some of their gear when blisters (aggravated by the heavy load) cause their progress to slow too much. I have personally seen both of these happen (and helped pack out some of the 'too heavy' gear). I will add the caveat these are usually beginning backpackers rather than those with experience.

Nice post.:)

Wise Old Owl
02-04-2008, 01:06
I got all the way through this thread and the one thing that I thought might be addressed about Backpacker is the moratorium on Tarps! They wrote March page 11 “Tarps are dead” There is no middle ground here. Critics on the staff argue the emergence of dependable ultralight tents have made them obsolete. Tarp fans think the critics are sissies.

On another note the Mag said “Big Packs are back”

Just the messenger here - Reporting in.

camojack
02-04-2008, 01:30
Well, if you're referring to Bryson's retort, I'd say it was brilliant. :D
Yeah, really. Some folks just wanna hate Bryson... :D

dessertrat
02-04-2008, 01:35
Well, if you're referring to Bryson's retort, I'd say it was brilliant. :D

In context, yes. There's nothing worse than having gear talk pushed on you when you don't want to talk gear.

DesertMTB
02-04-2008, 09:34
What makes you think you have the right to comment at all on what we carry? Magazine Boy.


Magazine boy? No son, I am an accomplished hiker. Mostly in Arizona. I have hiked many 20 plus mile days with 40 to 60 pound loads in the past.

I have the right to comment on what you all carry because this is a forum and I felt like it.

Frolicking Dinosaurs
02-04-2008, 09:36
I got all the way through this thread and the one thing that I thought might be addressed about Backpacker is the moratorium on Tarps! They wrote March page 11 “Tarps are dead” There is no middle ground here. Critics on the staff argue the emergence of dependable ultralight tents have made them obsolete. Tarp fans think the critics are sissies.

On another note the Mag said “Big Packs are back”

Just the messenger here - Reporting in.:::: Dino pops corn and awaits civil war ::::