View Full Version : BMTA Annual Mtg.
envirodiver
02-01-2008, 16:50
I recd. my newsletter this week and according to the 1st article there was a major falling out of the people that run the BMTA. Apparently, there is a philosophical disagreement on the direction of the Assoc.
Does anyone know what this is about or have more info on what is meant by the "progressives and the regressives"?
Is this newsletter available online? Id be interested in reading it!!
Frolicking Dinosaurs
02-01-2008, 17:24
This has been coming for a while..... no comment on exactly what it is about. I'm tired of getting blasted.....
My concern is that there is a large function this March celebrating the connection of the Pinhoti to the BMT to the AT... No one said you you were responsible for what the BMT does FD. Are you a member of their Board?
Can we wrap a loving tail around Dino this time?
max patch
02-01-2008, 17:35
I recd. my newsletter this week and according to the 1st article there was a major falling out of the people that run the BMTA. Apparently, there is a philosophical disagreement on the direction of the Assoc.
Does anyone know what this is about or have more info on what is meant by the "progressives and the regressives"?
I didn't know anything about it until your post; but a quick google (see up for debate) tells me that this is what it may be about:
http://www.bmta.org/CurrentIssues.htm
envirodiver
02-01-2008, 17:37
This has been coming for a while..... no comment on exactly what it is about. I'm tired of getting blasted.....
Come on Dino...what's up? I mean it's not a big secret that there's a problem if it's the top story on the newsletter. Yet, it was obviously written with a bias and the author admitted that. Yet it was also nebulous in what was actually going on.
As a BMTA member and new lover of that trail it is concerning. FD it's not your responsibility so if you prefer to not get involved I understand, but I sure would like to know the story here.
envirodiver
02-01-2008, 17:49
Yes Max I think you are correct. The author of the article in the newsletter was Bill Ristrom. The same person that authored the report you linked to.
Sounds like major issues. I personally hope that they do not try and turn this into the AT west. That a trail is left for those that want more wilderness, that don't require shelters and privies for it to be a good hike and frankly would prefer they not be there. I don't care to share the trail with folks that would not be there if left to their own devices.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
02-01-2008, 19:50
Fear not, the issues shouldn't effect the linkage with the AT and Pinhoti in March.
They are internal and deal with planning for the trail and with whether the organization should be more focused on maintaining the existing trail or marketing and expanding the trail. The shelter idea comes out of the fact that trails with shelters get more use - and use generates funds. I don't really want to say much more because I know people on both sides of this disagreement and I feel like a rope in a tug-a-war.
Both the AT, and BMT are free. How do funds get generated by usage?
Skidsteer
02-01-2008, 20:02
Both the AT, and BMT are free. How do funds get generated by usage?
Donations and trail club membership fees.
The more people that hike it and/or know about it, the more likely they are to support it in some fashion.
take-a-knee
02-01-2008, 20:27
Yes Max I think you are correct. The author of the article in the newsletter was Bill Ristrom. The same person that authored the report you linked to.
Sounds like major issues. I personally hope that they do not try and turn this into the AT west. That a trail is left for those that want more wilderness, that don't require shelters and privies for it to be a good hike and frankly would prefer they not be there. I don't care to share the trail with folks that would not be there if left to their own devices.
What he said.
gardenville
02-01-2008, 21:22
I am a BMTA member.
Bill Ristrom tried to get about 3 pages of changes to the BMTA by-laws passed without the members input. He got miffed when he was challenged on it.
I got labeled by Bill as one of the "Regressives" because we all didn't just roll over and let it go by. I would like to see more or different changes than Bill was pushing but there is right way to do things.
Here is a copy of the Jan 2008 newsletter. It was only one piece of paper. The first page are his comments - alone. Page two is only up-coming work trips.
http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/files/1/2/5/9/bmta_jan_2008_1_thumb.jpg (http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=21943&c=678)
Frolicking Dinosaurs
02-01-2008, 21:28
Great to see you here, Gardenville. Thank you for scanning the Newletter and posting it. I am deeply saddened by the rift in the BMTA.
envirodiver
02-01-2008, 21:40
Thanks for the input Gardenville. I'm a member of the BMTA, I joined because I wanted to support the trail and help with the expenses incurred in keeping a trail "primative".
Personally I would think that all of the members should have input on major changes in philosophy.
Thanks for the info
gardenville
02-01-2008, 21:43
Hi,
I joined the BMTA in 1994. I know the main players is this (what ever you want to call it) but it boils down to two strong willed folks with two different ideas about some things.
Those differences have a "right" way to get changed but (in my option and other) that way was not followed.
Bill took it upon himself to demonize the lady he thinks is behind the opposition and all of the rest of us who did not agree with him.
I joined the BMT in December, never having hiked the trail, but liking the idea.
I was bothered by the fact that their web site hadn't been updated as far as activities in seven months (at that time)
I was bothered by the idea that the trail described numerous road walks.
Then, after over a month of not hearing from anyone, I receieved an e-mail telling me they'd decided to no longer send maps to new members, or sell them, since they were out of date.
Last week I got a newsletter that was obviously bias-ed from one side, and without explaining what the issue was, only expressing dissatisfaction against what was going on, and I wondered, is this what my minimal dues are funding?
And I wondered, WHY did I choose to join this group? It made me realize I'm I'll probably hike a little more before I join another one.
gardenville
02-04-2008, 22:31
I joined the BMT in December, never having hiked the trail, but liking the idea.
I was bothered by the fact that their web site hadn't been updated as far as activities in seven months (at that time)
I was bothered by the idea that the trail described numerous road walks.
Then, after over a month of not hearing from anyone, I receieved an e-mail telling me they'd decided to no longer send maps to new members, or sell them, since they were out of date.
Last week I got a newsletter that was obviously bias-ed from one side, and without explaining what the issue was, only expressing dissatisfaction against what was going on, and I wondered, is this what my minimal dues are funding?
And I wondered, WHY did I choose to join this group? It made me realize I'm I'll probably hike a little more before I join another one.
Mercy,
Have faith, this thread has been sent to the BMTA President and I believe she is sending it to all the Board.
The comment written by Bill Ristom was like something I would expect from a spoil little boy that was just told NO for the first time. The only reason it got printed was because he does the newsletter.
He also was not at the Annul Meeting so he did not see how well the meeting went. The question of the By-Law changes was deferred for member comment.
The BMTA Board is supposed to address his comment and I assume will take some action.
take-a-knee
02-04-2008, 23:05
Well maybe the BMT has a couple of road walks (in areas with no National Forest) but at least there is a trail now where none existed before, and that says a lot to me, so someone must be doing something right.
Hikerhead
02-05-2008, 00:03
Personally I have no bones to pick with anyone in this club. I think they're all good folks.
Bill and Diana have worked very hard for this club and have done some great things. The website that Bill made is outstanding for a club of this size. He also worked on the data book along with Rock. I consider Bill and Diana good friends.
Yes, the maps of the first 100 miles are kind of crappy, the info on the back helped me out the most. Really didn't need the maps until we got to the road walks. The first 100 miles were well marked. The second 100 miles was lacking in spots with good blazing but it was mostly high on the ridges away from easy access and being a ridge walk it wasn't difficult to follow the trail. The last 100 miles through the Smokies were well marked and along with the National Geo map, was easy to follow.
I would not like to see any more shelters built on this trail. I think that would just open up problems with abuse and trash.
The road walk on the Dragon is a horrible accident waiting to happen. If a way can be found to take the trail into the woods for that section, I believe a life will be saved.
So I really don't have any complaints about how things are going. If they want to keep it like it is, I'm OK with that.
I'm an outsider looking in but I hope they can talk things out and get back to doing what I think has been an outstanding job so far.
take-a-knee
02-05-2008, 00:10
Hikerhead, could you elaborate on the "Dragon"?
Hikerhead
02-05-2008, 00:31
It's a 4 mile hike from Deals Gap on Rt 129 (The Dragon) to the 20 Mile Ranger Station in the smokies on Rt 28.
Rt 129 is the curviest rd know to mankind (300 turns in 20 miles, something close to that) and is a motorcyclist playground during the warmer months. By playground I mean lets see how fast you can go. There's no shoulder to walk on. Ask anyone who has driven this rd what it's like to have bikes passing you on double yellow in blind turns. I don't have any thing against motorcycles, maybe I'll get on myself one day. If I had one I would probalby be one of those passing on the double yellow. It's a dangerous road to walk on.
envirodiver
02-05-2008, 00:40
I started this thread to try and find out what is going on. I joined the club when planning a trip on the BMT. I wanted to provide some support for something that I was using. There are a lot of people on WB that work their butts off on this trail and I figured if I didn't have time at least I could help w/ a few bucks.
It's an outstanding trail, and I'd like to see it remain primative (no shelters) I have not hiked the section yet on the Dragon, but The "tail of the Dragon" is any extremely dangerous section of highway that has become (because of irresponsible advertising IMO) a racetrack for motorcycles. Lot's of blind curves. The following is from one website related to the Dragon.
<SPAN class=normalboldwhite>The Tail of the Dragon at Deals Gap, with 318 curves in 11 miles, is America's number 1 motorcycle and sports car road<SPAN class=normalboldwhite>
Hikerhead
02-05-2008, 01:08
I started this thread to try and find out what is going on. I joined the club when planning a trip on the BMT. I wanted to provide some support for something that I was using. There are a lot of people on WB that work their butts off on this trail and I figured if I didn't have time at least I could help w/ a few bucks.
It's an outstanding trail, and I'd like to see it remain primative (no shelters) I have not hiked the section yet on the Dragon, but The "tail of the Dragon" is any extremely dangerous section of highway that has become (because of irresponsible advertising IMO) a racetrack for motorcycles. Lot's of blind curves. The following is from one website related to the Dragon.
<SPAN class=normalboldwhite>The Tail of the Dragon at Deals Gap, with 318 curves in 11 miles, is America's number 1 motorcycle and sports car road<SPAN class=normalboldwhite>
Good post but I couldn't get your link to work. Here's one. Check out the map. Wow, that's a lot of curves!
http://www.tailofthedragon.com/index.html
envirodiver
02-05-2008, 01:23
Same link I was trying to attach. You're just smarter then me. The dragon is a powder keg. It's being advertised by numerous folks and it is a race track. Very dangerous, doesn't matter if you are walking or driving.
take-a-knee
02-05-2008, 01:24
Good post but I couldn't get your link to work. Here's one. Check out the map. Wow, that's a lot of curves!
http://www.tailofthedragon.com/index.html
Never heard of it but I know nothing of cycles. I hope Sgt Rock makes it through there without getting mowed down. If it is as you say it'll happen sooner or later. I can't see why the trail couldn't be routed better in the park, the land is there to do so.
Hikerhead
02-05-2008, 01:59
Never heard of it but I know nothing of cycles. I hope Sgt Rock makes it through there without getting mowed down. If it is as you say it'll happen sooner or later. I can't see why the trail couldn't be routed better in the park, the land is there to do so.
He's already made it through there and is on the Noland Creek trail now according to the She Dino.
We've done some investigating for a possible reroute in the future. Here's a link to the thread.
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=28881&highlight=bmt&page=2
There will be a lot of hoop jumping to get this passed with the GSMNP people.
Hopefully we can get back down there in the spring again before everything leaves out.
Ghosthiker
02-05-2008, 07:18
Like Mercy, I joined in December. I haven't hiked the trail, yet, but I like the idea of a primitive trail. I wasn't upset about not getting he map after it was explained about being outdated, but the newsletter made me wonder what I had gotten into. I'll hang in for a while and even plan to help on some work days. I have been in groups before and have seen this kind of in-fighting and power struggles. I just hope it doesn't escalate to the point that it hurts the trail. Especially if they are looking at re-routes. I'd hate to see the reroute fail because someone was concerned about how the association was running.
Like Mercy, I joined in December. I haven't hiked the trail, yet, but I like the idea of a primitive trail. I wasn't upset about not getting he map after it was explained about being outdated, but the newsletter made me wonder what I had gotten into. I'll hang in for a while and even plan to help on some work days. I have been in groups before and have seen this kind of in-fighting and power struggles. I just hope it doesn't escalate to the point that it hurts the trail. Especially if they are looking at re-routes. I'd hate to see the reroute fail because someone was concerned about how the association was running.
The trail will not be impacted by this IMO. And the BMT is a great trail. I hope to finish the part that remains for me this year (Hiwassee River to 20 Mile Ranger Station) and (Smokemont to Davenport Gap). At that point I will have hiked the entire trail. 2008 is the year.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
02-05-2008, 08:22
He's already made it through there and is on the Noland Creek trail now according to the She Dino.Dixi is meeting him at Smokemont for a resupply today.
We've done some investigating for a possible reroute in the future. Here's a link to the thread.
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=28881&highlight=bmt&page=2
There will be a lot of hoop jumping to get this passed with the GSMNP people.
Hopefully we can get back down there in the spring again before everything leaves out.I would really love to be a part of this - even if it is only cooking some yummy stuff for the folks doing the work.
Same link I was trying to attach. You're just smarter then me. The dragon is a powder keg. It's being advertised by numerous folks and it is a race track. Very dangerous, doesn't matter if you are walking or driving.The dragon is only bad in the warmer months. The day Sgt Rock crossed it it was in the 30'fF - motorcyclists don't play in that sort of weather.
Hikerhead
02-05-2008, 08:56
Like Mercy, I joined in December. I haven't hiked the trail, yet, but I like the idea of a primitive trail. I wasn't upset about not getting he map after it was explained about being outdated, but the newsletter made me wonder what I had gotten into. I'll hang in for a while and even plan to help on some work days. I have been in groups before and have seen this kind of in-fighting and power struggles. I just hope it doesn't escalate to the point that it hurts the trail. Especially if they are looking at re-routes. I'd hate to see the reroute fail because someone was concerned about how the association was running.
This possible re-route to get the trail off of the Dragon was not a club sponsored event. It was just a couple of members looking to see if it was possible for this re-route to happen. Thanks for joining and don't let the bickering stop you from joining in on club activities. Like I said, all of the folks that I have been in contact with are great people with a common interest of hiking and being outdoors.
Hikerhead
02-05-2008, 08:59
I would really love to be a part of this - even if it is only cooking some yummy stuff for the folks doing the work.
Sounds good! You'll hear about it if the go ahead is given to start digging some dirt.
I am a member of the BMTA and hike the trail often. It is by far and large one of the better trails and, in my opinion, outclasses the AT for natural settings.
I also know some of the members involved in this ruckus. Bill is a decent fellow and would like to see the trail remain in its primitive state, but be more popular and see greater usage and therefore support.
Other members oppose use by certian individuals or groups (most notably the annual Adventure Race which includes hiking/running as one of its three legs) and seem to want to keep usage and membership low. There is a certian logic to this as overusage will ruin the primitive state of the trail.
There is a fair amount of discontent that rumbles through the membership on these opposing views. At present the Board is comprised mostly with more conservative (what Bill referred to as "regressives") members who are in the latter classification. This may have generated some level of frustration on Bill's part and pushed him into taking drastic measures.
I do know that there are a goodly number of BMTA members who agree with Bill, but hold their tongues for fear of being ridiculed or shunned by the board.
I, personally agree with the board on most issues, especially those regarding horses, ATVs and keeping the trail in its primitive state. But I also agree with Bill on marketing the trail to increase membership and support. The more support the trail has the better chance they will have getting those road walks re-routed.
In the end, I almost admire Bill for taking the action he did. The board was unwilling to listen to reason and was uncompromising. I have even personally heard board members ridicule Bill behind his back. He has effectively taken a bullet for the good of the trail. This is the kind of thing that may urge the board to reevaluate positions. Bill may have been a radical or he may just have been ahead of his time. But one thing is for sure, the board absolutely must keep in mind that the BMTA is made up of more than just the chosen few who serve on the board.
On a side note, I have been a member for several years and held my tongue to keep the peace. But it seems that some members of the board view the BMTA as their own private garden club. One lady, who I am fond of and would never risk our friendship serves on the board and is a total control freak. I have heard first hand of how the members of the board work to undermine those with opposing opinions.
envirodiver
02-05-2008, 12:52
It sounds as if these opposing people have gotten to the point of no return. Is there still a hope of comprimise or will this end as a "winner take all"?
I'm so new to this group that I really have no right to say anything. I'll continue to financially support it as long as it doesn't get completely out of control.
Mintaka the thing that you said that concerned me more than anything else was regarding ATV, horse, bike traffic on the trail. I hope they do not get away from foot traffic only.
My 18 year old daughter has grown up in soccer clubs. I have seen several implode, when the board members forget what the purpose of the group was and let their own agendas and egos get involved instead of focusing on the job at hand. Unfortunatly it sounds like some of that is going on within the BMTA.
Dances with Mice
02-05-2008, 13:52
Remember that feuding about the purpose and scope of a footpath is part of the Benton MacKaye heritage. Too bad there's not a Myron Avery Trail to squabble with.
What was the relationship between MacKaye and Myron Avery? (http://www.appalachiantrail.org/site/c.jkLXJ8MQKtH/b.786749/k.D5F9/History.htm)
They were cordial at first, but, by the mid-1930s, as Avery took charge of the Trail project, they quarreled over fundamental issues and visions of what the Trail should be. Avery was more interested in hiking and in connecting the sections of the Trail, while MacKaye was more interested in the Trail's role in promoting wilderness. MacKaye disassociated himself from ATC in 1935 to found the Wilderness Society and was not closely involved with the Trail again until after Avery's death in 1952.
Dances with Mice
02-05-2008, 13:55
Remember that feuding about the purpose and scope of a footpath is part of the Benton MacKaye heritage. Too bad there's not a Myron Avery Trail to squabble with.
Oh, wait. There is...
I am new to both the BMTA and the board. I am concerned by what I have been reading and hearing.
I have never met Bill in person, but have exchanged emails with him on numerous occasion regarding supporting the newsletter and serving on the board. I have never perceived any sort of vindictiveness on his part nor any animocity nor obstinancy on the part of other board members.
I have sensed an air of reluctance to embrace some of the more modern or non-traditional uses of the trail. I am a geocacher and the BMT is home to some of the best geocaches in Georgia. Yet getting veteran board members and BMTA members to look favorably on geocaching is not an easy task. However, I beleive in the sport and also in the BMT and feel that in time an amicable middle ground can be found. I hope some day to see goecaching and the BMTA in a benevolent symbiosis.
I assure you that the BMTA board is not close minded, but acts in the best interest of the trail itself. We encourage foot traffic, and resist other forms of traffic that could be damaging to the trail or surrounding areas.
I urge you to let the board work through this matter. Bill's outburst may have been rooted in good intentions, but was warped by "frustration" as one of the other posters mentioned. I am sure that when the dust settles, we will have a clear direction that is in the best interest of everyone.
Tipi Walter
02-05-2008, 15:38
The trail will not be impacted by this IMO. And the BMT is a great trail. I hope to finish the part that remains for me this year (Hiwassee River to 20 Mile Ranger Station) and (Smokemont to Davenport Gap). At that point I will have hiked the entire trail. 2008 is the year.
Hey, maybe I can be on the trail when you decide to hike north from Reliance. After "ushering" Sgt Rock over the Whigg, I'm starting to get a feel for it. And I like running into WhiteBlazers in my neck of the woods.
The Citico/Slickrock area is a wilderness and even though the BMT runs thru it, there will not be any shelters erected in that section, thank god. And south of there, in the upper Bald River wilderness study area and along the State Line Trail, I doubt if shelters would be allowed(wilderness study area, etc).
If the BMTA thinks to put up shelters at other places, then well, they've become like any other corporation headed by individuals with a nasty gleam in their eyes. I wouldn't be surprised if there isn't a grand plan to put shelters on the B Mac, and I wouldn't be surprised if the BMTA spearheaded the effort. The same mentality that supports Gatlinburg and thinks Dollywood as progressive growth would be the same mentality encouraging putting shelters on the B Mac.
You'd think in this day and age of overdevelopment and sprawl that the nature loving honchos over at the BMTA would've gotten the memo to leave well enough alone.
Hey, maybe I can be on the trail when you decide to hike north from Reliance. After "ushering" Sgt Rock over the Whigg, I'm starting to get a feel for it. And I like running into WhiteBlazers in my neck of the woods.
I'd enjoy the company. Shoot me a note and we can make some plans.
envirodiver
02-05-2008, 15:57
I guess the question is: What is progress? Is more trail useage progress? Is being unable to spend time on the trail without running into a lot of people progress? Is increasing usage necessary to develop the funds to maintain the trail.
I think it is very difficult to ensure that the decision made will be "in the best interest of everyone". If everyone had the same view of the direction needed there would be no unrest at this time.
However, I do believe that the people making the decisions are doing what they think is best for everyone and the trail. So we'll see.
Folks, we're talking about volunteers. This matter will be resolved, and the trail will continue to be one of the best in the region.
If you take nothing else from this thread, that should be the lesson. Hike the BMT! You won't be sorry that you did.
Ghosthiker
02-05-2008, 17:54
Don't misunderstand me, from my previous post. I am for the BMTA and hope to be able to assist some with work days and what not. I just hate to see the kind of "first impressions" that new members might have gotten if they, like me, received that newsletter as their first correspondence from the Association. I wish there was a good place to get caught up on the issues on both sides of this conflict.
envirodiver
02-06-2008, 01:19
You're right MOWGLI. It is a great trail, it was designed and built well. It is maintained very well. I'll continue to support financially, try to make some work groups and hike it.
I'm sure everyone is doing what they think is right.
SGT Rock
02-17-2008, 17:09
I got told about this thread and will weigh in some. I know Bill and Diane and consider them friends. Bill is an engineer and comes up with solutions to problems and implements them. That is how he thinks. Anyone that has ever worked with an engineer knows that they can have very strong opinions about their ideas and goals. Anyone here that ever got the chance to talk with him would find him to be VERY passionate about the BMT and he does take on a lot of tasks. At one point he created the website, came up with the trail maintenance reporting systerm, wrote the databook, supervised trail maintenance for TN/NC and did the newsletter. That is a lot of work and sort of gives you the idea of his drive to do things and get things done - and imagine that all that is only his part time gig and is only some of his volunteer work.
Bill doesn't want shelters or anything like that, he wants to keep the trail primitive but at the same time get the fact that it is there to be used out in the public mind. The trail still needs work though it is "complete" and to get volunteers you got to get people interested. This means pushing to be more inclusive in other things besides day hikers like long distance backpackers, geocachers, and even ATV or hourse groups as some parts of the trail are multi-use. You don't build a 300 mile trail and hope no one uses it except your buddies.
The maps for the first 100 miles (actually you can trim that down to about 60) do suck. There wasn't any documentation about the trail (as I understand it certain people opposed that because it would increase use) and there are places where the trail should be re-routed because of safety like the Dragon. Honestly, to fix some of this you have to either have a strong leader that thinks these things are important or have a grass roots movement by users to push these things. Bill tried to get the leadership to move without a lot of success because of their personal feelings (or maybe a small group's feelings) and now has dropped almost all his responsibilities because it was being too slow to move. I presonally support some of what he wants and will continue to go from the grass roots end to help get things going the way I think it should. If that means making maps and putting them out there myself or writing my own guides and putting it out there, or hiking and promoting the trail and volunteers on my own - then that is what I'm going to do. I figure if ALDHA pushes the ATC at times on things, then me and people like me can push the BMTA at times. Maybe someday I can be president of the BMT, but until then I'll just do it, and Bill is the same type of person.
Maybe someday I can be president of the BMT, but until then I'll just do it....
IMO, you'd make a great President.
SGT Rock
02-17-2008, 19:26
Thanks, and maybe someday I'll run for the office.
envirodiver
02-17-2008, 23:48
Rock thanks for your input, it does answer a lot of my questions. I assure everyone that I didn't start this thread to try and create a ****storm or put my personal agendas out there.
I do like this trail very much and want to see it be a viable part of our hiking options.
My concern was that there might be so much internal strife wihtin the BMTA that it may fall into obvilion.
The people that have responded here and the passion that is attached to the trail, make me feel much better from this standpoint. I want to get more involved and as I said before will continue to provide financial support.