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GratefulHike
02-01-2008, 17:14
Hello all, I am brand spankin new to the white blaze community. Thank you for all the valuable information I have already gathered from here!!! Please be kind for I have many questions...... I don't have a lot of miles under my belt and haven't really kept track. My normal hikes have only been 30 to 50 miles at a time. So me and two of my buddies have decided we want to hike the smoky park in March. Ready for the questions..... here they come....

Are we crazy? Is the weather that bad this time of the year?

Bear containers. I understand there are many bears in the Smoky park and have camped where bears have been in the past but not the population like the park. I have always just used a stuff sack tied from a tree. If anyone has any good bear stories, loosing food, being chased would love to hear them. So what are your opinions about bear bagging???

How is the water supply now, has it gotten any better this winter?

Any opinions on N to S vs S to N? We have been thinking about goin N to S.

This is just the start, I am sure more questions will come to mind, but I hope to keep this thread going to help a newbie like myself or other newbies informed.

Thanks!!!!! Happy trails....

warraghiyagey
02-01-2008, 17:15
:welcome:welcome

GratefulHike
02-01-2008, 18:11
Thanks for the welcome. The link seems to be dead, did it just get posted wrong somehow?

Egads
02-01-2008, 19:38
Welcome to White Blaze

My 2 cents

1. Possibly. I am unable to determine your mental status from this post. The weather can vary from single digits to the 70s, snow to sunshine. Be prepared for the worst condition.

2. Use the bear cables. You are more likely to lose food to the shelter mice than a bear.

3. Running water should be much better than last summer / fall. Just check with the rangers before starting.

4. I believe the S > N direction is better. I really can't speak from experience with both directions.

Cheers

Egads

Max Power
02-02-2008, 00:24
I hiked it N to S. I was told it was easier that route. There are bear cables at every shelter/campsite and you should use them. As Egads said, "be prepared for the worst conditions." Have fun. If you ant good bear stories go to the Great Smoky Mt Asscociation Website (http://www.smokiesinformation.org/f/updates/05e_podcasts.htm) and look for the podcast on bear #75.

GratefulHike
02-04-2008, 22:16
Ok, if I wanted a good guage as to the high/low temps as it gets closer to go time, what town would I want to look at?

thestin
02-04-2008, 22:20
The problem with getting a weather forecast is that the towns are all in the valley and the weather can be much different up at elevation.

EAnderson
02-04-2008, 22:23
Ok, if I wanted a good guage as to the high/low temps as it gets closer to go time, what town would I want to look at?

It depends, but I usually use Townsend for the southern end (for hikes around Cades Cove), Gatlinburg or Cherokee for the middle, and Cosby or Newport for the northern end. Also, here is the NOAA link that gives great detail for the previous 24 hours for areas in the NP.

http://www.srh.noaa.gov/data/MRX/RTPMRX

GratefulHike
02-04-2008, 23:09
thanks, I understand the difference in weather but at least having something to guage is better than nothing. I notice on the noaa they are saying the high's today were 50 and lows only 30 and that is at 5900ft. That sounds very very warm. Going in mid march I was going to be happy if I saw a high of 40. I guess the weather can change around there pretty quick.

kytrailman
02-05-2008, 00:06
Wlcome to WB-- I have done this section a few times. North to south is supposed to be easier, but I prefer south to north. The water should not be a problem at that time of the year. Hang your stuff sack from the cables and leave all of the zippers on your pack open so the mice can get out if you stay in the shelters. The weather will be variable, so plan for a little of everything. I have been there at around that same time and seen loads of snow and ice on the trail and freezing temps at night, with warm and sunny days you can wear shorts on. It is a beautiful trip. I will be there at the end March traveling to Hot Springs. good Luck.

Tennessee Viking
02-05-2008, 02:05
You will be hiking with the spring tourists and probably one of the first large waves of Nobos.

There is always a possibility of a freak spring snow storm like last year. Then you will also see possibilities of spring rains.

Going northbound is around a 4500 foot climb from Fontana to Clingmans in 33 miles. Then at Mt Camm its a sharp 3500-4000 foot drop in roughly 5 miles to the Davenport Gap/Pigeon River.

Grab a camping permit and keep all your food bagged and sealed.

Standing Bear Farm hostel is a good shuttle point into the Smokies.

Stir Fry
02-05-2008, 02:40
thanks, I understand the difference in weather but at least having something to guage is better than nothing. I notice on the noaa they are saying the high's today were 50 and lows only 30 and that is at 5900ft. That sounds very very warm. Going in mid march I was going to be happy if I saw a high of 40. I guess the weather can change around there pretty quick.
I have hiked both directions in March,eather directinn is OK,the weather is not prodictable I'v hiked in freezing rain on day and 70 next. water no problem. Have a good camera, views are great, if you are out or the clouds.

GratefulHike
02-08-2008, 10:58
Those of you with experience in the smokies can you look at this itenerary take a look and see if this is realistic. Since you need to make reservations I figured this should have been thought out ahead of time. Thanks for the help you have given me so far!!!

TownDawg
02-08-2008, 14:34
Hope you pack light. Those mileages are pretty tough considering the elevation changes.

GratefulHike
02-08-2008, 16:45
So is it totally unreasonable. My pack filled, with consumables is about 35 lbs. When I do 3-5 day hikes my pack is usually much heavier because I enjoy all the simple luxeries life can afford and be brought outside and to be able to provide some trail magic to people I run into. I am in decent shape, always have those few extra pounds, but I am used to averaging about 3mph. I was thinking on this trip I should be able to average about 2mph. Does 2mph sound reasonable?

My averages are based on mostly PA hikes, so I am really looking to those of you with experience to help me out. Thanks in advance to all, the information I have gotten from these forums so far has proven invaluable.

TownDawg
02-11-2008, 09:55
I went back and looked at it again. Seven days.. is in the 6-8 day range of people that do both sections.. (I'm have only done one or the other the 3 or 4 times I've been over that route).. I'm thinking about 35lbs a minute, and think you are in the normal range for a 6-8 day hike. 2mph.. hMmmmm.. it's possible, and you will have to average that rate to make your itinerary.. (multiple your miles and add in the 1/2 per 1000' foot adjustments and double check if there is enough sunlight from sunrise to sunset.)

So hey -- it can be done, but it's going to be a bear I think. If you prepare for everything, you can always fall behind on your itinerary and make an early bail out at NFG -- so you should be good to go. March you said?

GratefulHike
02-19-2008, 14:18
Ok, summing it up me and my group will be hitting the trail on March 16 from davenport gap. We will be finishing up on the 21st. The kind folks at the hike inn are going to shuttle us from fontana back to our car in davenport.

So here is the new question. Does anyone know of any good hiker friendly hotels in davenport or north to stay. Looking for friendly place with hopefully a nice neighborhood bar in walking distance so we can indulge.

Any thoughts...... Who else is gonna be out there then?

1234
02-19-2008, 18:20
We went s to n last spring. Me, wife and 2 daughters. 7 days from the dam to mountian mama's. First day is very rough for many because your pack is at max weight and it is 100% uphill, it is a gentle grade but it is still 11 miles of uphill. Thrus in the smokeys mid march, nada. The pack is not near there yet, BUT spring breakers will be in droves, so first shelter either direction from newfound gap will be full of college students! We plan on starting at Clingmans and go north and we are on vacation and spring break so it is shelter to shelter EZ enjoyable walk to davenport gap. no worries but if the road is closed it is springer to dicks creek to be with the starters.
Do not worry all you over use panic people, most startes are so afaird of shelters it is funny. They need guidance to learn how NOT to wash there dishes in our water supply. etc etc. PS do be prepared and get out fast if things go bad weather, food or foot wise.

bessiebreeze
02-19-2008, 18:37
Remember - You need to have reservations for the shelters in the Smokies, if you are section hikers. Just call the park office no more than a month in advance of the first day of your hike. They should be easy to get.

GratefulHike
02-19-2008, 19:09
bessie thanks for the advice, already have the reservations locked and loaded with the park and hike inn

bigcranky
02-19-2008, 20:46
So here is the new question. Does anyone know of any good hiker friendly hotels in davenport or north to stay. Looking for friendly place with hopefully a nice neighborhood bar in walking distance so we can indulge.


Cue maniacal laughter. Davenport Gap is in the middle of freaking nowhere. No hotels, no friendly neighborhood bars, no indulging. Sorry.

30 miles north is the town of Hot Springs -- nice little town (very little), with a friendly hostel and a bar or two. Great hiking town, but not really near Davenport Gap as far as driving distance goes.

There is also a hiker hostel just north of the gap, Standing Bear Farm. You could certainly stay there the night before you hike. But it's not walking distance to anything, either, except the Trail.

pittmad
02-20-2008, 15:09
I spoke with the ranger station today and they suggested bringing some sort of cleat or ice-grips for your shoes for the first week of March. Has anyone encountered conditions that would require these in the Smokeys?

pittmad
02-20-2008, 15:22
oh and also, here's my itinerary heading N starting on March 1st just for s***s and giggles. Carrying about 35lbs max.
Fontana Dam to Birch Spring Gap 5.2miles
BSP to Russell Field 7.2miles
Russell Field to Silers Bald 14.3miles
Silers Bald to Ice Water Spring 15.5miles
Ice Water Spring to Tricorner Knob 12.9miles
Tricorner Knob to Davenport Gap 14.8miles
Davenport to I-40

Digger'02
02-20-2008, 17:21
leconte has a weather station, look at it on the GSMNP website. Ridgerunners will be on the trail in three locations then as well so you won't be totally alone!

Just to let you know, I bailed on a hike to Derrick knob last year in late march due to weather. 25 degrees at 4pm and snowing hard. It was a fun, but the snow will sloooowww you up.

Rambler
02-20-2008, 18:19
http://www.nps.gov/grsm/planyourvisit/weather.htm

xnav
02-22-2008, 18:40
I completed a six day hike, 29 Dec 07 thru 3 Jan 08, from Davenport Gap to Fontana Dam. Two days of sun, two days of rain, and two days of snow were the weather conditions. Temperatures varied from a high of 60 degrees in the daytime to 0 degrees on two nights. I've been told the Smokies are notorious for this type of weather. The only bear sign I saw was a set of tracks crossing the trial in the snow. The mice were out every night in all the shelters I stayed at. All the shelters I stayed at were in great shape except for Double Spring Gap. It had both bear fence and bear cables, but was really in need of a rebuild. Water was not an issue at any shelter, but the rangers and the Hike Inn managers can give you the latest reports when you arrive. I stayed at Cosby Knob, Pecks Corner, Icewater Spring, Double Spring, and Spence Field. It was a great hike, I learned a lot, and met some great winter hikers.

valleyfire
03-08-2008, 15:49
Can you make reservations anytime for the shelters?

Hikes in Rain
03-08-2008, 15:51
No. They won't take reservations more than 30 days ahead of time.

valleyfire
03-08-2008, 15:56
Can I sleep in my tent next to the shelter?

Bearpaw
03-08-2008, 15:56
I spoke with the ranger station today and they suggested bringing some sort of cleat or ice-grips for your shoes for the first week of March. Has anyone encountered conditions that would require these in the Smokeys?

If there is snow, and it is likely in early March, the AT gets packed down by hiker feet, melts in the sun then refrezes into a glassy sheet in places overnight. I've used instep crampons before as well as Yaktrax Pros. I prefer the pros because if you hit muddy patches, the crampons get VERY uncortable on the muddy stones. However, I've heard some folks concerned about durability of the Yaktrax. I've only got about 5-6 miles on my Yaktrax pros, so I can't reasonably speak to their longer-term durability.

valleyfire
03-08-2008, 15:58
Can you make reservations anytime for the shelters?

pittmad
03-08-2008, 17:32
I just got out of the smokies and used the yaktraks. while they worked well as far as gripping the ice, they gave my feet some bad blisters. they pinched the toes when going downhill and caused some serious discomfort. I ended up packing them up and just negotiating the ice with my boots (and slipping on my *ss)

springerfever
03-08-2008, 17:51
Ice can really be treacherous, particularly on ROCK. A couple of years back I did a S to N in the park and just out of Newfound Gap ran into rain runoff that had frozen overnight. These conditions will slow you down quite a bit.Hiking poles definately come in handy, but yaktrax are a lightweight aid that can help greatly.

Beautiful time of the year, with the trees being barren and the sky crystal clear, but it gets COLD and windy at elevation. Dress appropriately.

spunky
03-08-2008, 18:51
Your mileage is fine as long as you're used to hiking / backpacking. It is a lot of elevation gain going up from Davenport gap but it's not steep or rocky (rock jumping kind) so you should be able to do it.

As for the weather, check out this link to the Smokies weather.
http://www.srh.noaa.gov/productview.php?pil=MRXRTPMRX

The weather is very unpredictable in the mountains. Expect the worst, pack warm clothing and sleeping bag and rain gear. Hope for 60's and you might be lucky. Don't be disappointed if the highs are below freezing.

Link to Smokies website; no water problems reported
http://www.nps.gov/grsm/planyourvisit/temproadclose.htm

Have fun. Be prepared. Stay hydrated. Stay warm and dry. Post a trip report.

Spunky

Blissful
03-08-2008, 19:21
Can you make reservations anytime for the shelters?


http://www.nps.gov/grsm/planyourvisit/backcountry-camping.htm

Blissful
03-08-2008, 19:22
Can I sleep in my tent next to the shelter?


http://www.nps.gov/grsm/planyourvisit/backcountry-camping.htm

GratefulHike
03-10-2008, 19:07
hey all, leaving saturday to do the smokies southbound from davenport to fontana. staying saturday at davenport after the haul from pa. favor to ask all of you out there who know people in the smokies now or approaching to keep me up to date on the conditions. snow, slush, river on trail included. if you know any trail journals for me to watch too that would be much appreciated. am i running into anyone from here at davenport on Saturday? thanks to all who have helped out and delt with my silly questions while preparing for this trip. one of these years i will do a thru hike.... ahh the dreams....

10-K
03-10-2008, 21:15
I just hiked the Smokies last week too and in hindsight I spent way too much time worrying about shelter reservations.

Prior to leaving I studied the AT shelter locations going through the park and based on my estimated hiking distance per day made reservations for the shelter closest to where I'd be at the end of a day. I think at least theoretically that's how it's supposed to work.

In practice, Of of the 4 nights I was in the park I was only at the shelter I had a reservation for 2 nights. I also know from talking to other hikers that almost no one sticks to their intinerary while hiking through the park. There's just too many variables and things that can change your plans (weather!).

I wouldn't worry too much about it - just make reservations based on your best guess and go.

GratefulHike
03-10-2008, 22:58
hey 10-k, your info seems right on spot and I understand. can you give me an idea of the conditions I am going to face. i actually saw your post (or at least I think it was your post) of the conditions at the pecks shelter conditions.

10-K
03-11-2008, 06:01
GratefulHike - when I left the Smokies on Friday the snow and ice was rapidly melting. I'd imagine it's all gone by now.

Things can change in a hurry up there though. On my hike I spent 2 days hiking through howling wind, sleet and driving rain. The night before these storms the sky was clear and I'd never thought that I'd wake up the next day to a deluge.

I will say this though.... I had all the proper gear and never got cold or very wet and I found the bad weather something of a challenge that I enjoyed going up against. You're never more than a few miles from a shelter so you can get out of the elements pretty quickly if you need to.

Oh, and with the exception of Double Spring Shelter every shelter I visited in the park was top-notch. Pecks Corner and Tri Corner Knob leaked pretty badly but since the rain was coming down sideways I guess that had something to do with it. ;)

There's also plenty of water - you can plan on topping up your bottles at every shelter if you wanted to.

Finally, staring from Davenport Gap it is mostly uphill the first 10-12 or so miles but it's not anywhere near as hard a climb as it would be starting at Fontana Dam and walking north.

You'll enjoy it, especially if you don't mind staying in a shelter. I hope you let us know how it went.

earlyriser26
03-11-2008, 06:41
I've hiked the smokies 7 times, but only once in mid-march. We ran into deep snow on a good part of the trail that slowed us way down. The days are still fairly short so I would not push it on your planned miles.

little bear
03-11-2008, 06:52
Col Chaco and I are leaving Friday the 28, and here is our plans:

Day 1: Fontana Dam to Russell Fields- 11.7 miles
Day 2: Russell Fields to Derricks Knob- 8.7 miles
Day 3: Derricks Knob to Mt Collins- 12.3 miles
Day 4: Mt Collins to Mt LeConte- 12.5 miles
Day 5: Mt LeConte to Pecks Corner- 12.5 miles
Day 6: Pecks Corner to Cosby Knob- 12.9 miles
Day 7: Cosby Knob to Standing Bear Farm- 9.1 miles

Hope to see some of ya out there.

LB

GratefulHike
03-14-2008, 22:13
anyone have a good weather update for the smokies leaving tomorrow at 6am then driving and spending the the night at davenport before heading out in the following morning...

valleyfire
03-20-2008, 10:24
have fun

HikerRanky
03-20-2008, 10:31
anyone have a good weather update for the smokies leaving tomorrow at 6am then driving and spending the the night at davenport before heading out in the following morning...

Here is a very handy URL to go check:

http://www.srh.noaa.gov/data/MRX/RTPMRX

It looks like roughly upper 40s to low 50s for the highs, and high 10s to low 20s for lows from Newfound Gap and Mt. LeConte for the next 24 hours....

Randy