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Focus
02-02-2008, 09:08
Do you think you need to have the decision made to hike or not before you ask for a leave of absence? Current situation is as follows: going on 2 1/2 years with current small company, just hired someone underneath me which could do some of my job, no real room for advancement unless someone above me leaves, thinking about going to grad school full time anyway. So, would it be foolish to ask for time off to hike given the above details? Thanks for the input.

bigcranky
02-02-2008, 09:17
It sounds like you might just be ready to quit altogether. If that is the case, then you are in a strong position to ask for a leave of absence -- because you can quit if you don't get it.

But yeah, you should probably be prepared to leave either way. Some companies will fire you as soon as you ask for an LOA (not saying yours will, but some do.) It's seen as an act of disloyalty.

hammock engineer
02-02-2008, 11:33
I never asked for one from a real job. I got out of one with a co-op job in undergrad. I did so on good terms and came back to work for them later. I think it depends on the job and the reason. You have to talk it up like you are going to live out a dream and not just take a long vacation.

This goes along with a big debate that I am having right now. I want to continue to take long trips, but I want to get a job in my field. I will be faced with the same problem.

It boils down to if they say no or the job will not be waiting when you get back, you need to make the decision. What is more important your trip or your job. I think a larger company with more employees to take up the slack would be more willing. Like was said I would be hesitant to say anything until you made your decision to go anyways or not. After that I would give them tons of notice.

10-K
02-02-2008, 11:45
I would make the decision to hike before I asked for leave. No need asking if you're not sure you're going to make the trip.

When you ask, they will say yes or no. If they say yes, problem solved.

So, is the question really "Should I decide to hike or ask first" or is it "What if they say no?"

Thanks
Thomas

rafe
02-02-2008, 11:50
Hello, Focus. This issue comes up from time to time. But none of us know your own personal situation and priorities as well as you do. For me: I was in a roughly similar situation at age 37. An OK job, nothing special, big hi-tech company. It was easy to ask for a LOA, because I didn't really care much if it was granted or not. I told my boss flat-out that if the LOA wasn't granted, I would quit. And that's how it went. No regrets. Good luck to you, whatever happens.

FeO2
02-02-2008, 11:50
Interesting, I was asking co-workers the other day about a leave of absence. On fellow said that his friend asked for 6 months to do the AT and it was rejected. :eek:

I work for a very large company. I got the opinion that if hikers were working in HR, it wouldn't be a problem, but if hiking uninformed people are there, my dream of hiking the AT is washed away. :confused:

It is not as simple as quiting, I am not young and have to think about my kids, wife, pension and stuff.

Toolshed
02-02-2008, 13:15
Your LOA is much more of an impact for a smaller company.
If I had less than 10 employees, I would have to hire somone permanent to replace you as a contract employee is probably way to expensive.
I can understand a company deciding that you have already mentally checked out if you ask for a LOA. If they say "no", they are probably thinking that you are no longer an enchanted employee anyone and expect you to move on, and would then therefore have the talk with you about helping out until they can train your replacement.

It is probably easier for a company to say yes, but we cannot guarantee you your position (or any position) if you decide to return....and then they go ahead and replace you as soon as you leave.

Focus
02-02-2008, 13:24
Thanks for everyone's replies. I guess the way I look it, it would be better for them to let me go for six months than spend the next 2 months hiring someone and then another year for that person to get up an running. I would feel better about this whole thing if i knew i was accepted to school first, then it would be a no brainer. With a possible recission and all, school is much tougher to get into and getting a job in a recession is tough.

chief
02-02-2008, 15:22
Thanks for everyone's replies. I guess the way I look it, it would be better for them to let me go for six months than spend the next 2 months hiring someone and then another year for that person to get up an running. I would feel better about this whole thing if i knew i was accepted to school first, then it would be a no brainer. With a possible recission and all, school is much tougher to get into and getting a job in a recession is tough.I'm really glad to see you're thinking, at least, of the consequences of your ultimate decision.

wrongway_08
02-02-2008, 15:49
Just make up your mind to do it or not.

If the thru-hike is that important to you, that you'll leave your job, let them know that. Put it in kind words ....... make it a point to first say that you want to keep working with them BUT the hike is also a lifelong dream and that it is time for the hike to happen.

If the hike is more important to you, the choice is easy, make your best attempt to keep the job but if your unable to, the hike will happen and its a win-win for you no matter the outcome.

I had to do the same thing, my hike is starting on March 1st.

WalkinHome
02-02-2008, 21:57
I heard many hikers in 2000 say they quit their job to do the AT and their bosses told them that they did not have to quit and that their jobs would be there when they finished. I was quite amazed. If you ask for a LOA and it is refused then you would have to decide your next step but it doesn't sound like your outfit will fire you for it. Take it one step at a time and keep your options open. Only you can decide. Good luck - it would have been a deal breaker for me as I had a 20 year investment with Verizon but I lucked out and got the LOA.

snowhoe
02-02-2008, 22:25
You were looking for a job when you found this one. You kind find another.

Focus
02-03-2008, 08:39
Part of the reason I feel I don't need to make the decison before I ask for a LOA is that I do not think they will let me go just for asking. Also, if there is no room to advance with out someone leaving, what's the worst that is going to happen, not get promoted. If I don't hike and go back to school it it a mute point anyway. The only drawback would be, in their eyes, I may be looked at differently. Everyone's comments have been very helpful. Thanks.

mudhead
02-03-2008, 08:57
But it will be a card played. You can't be 100% of what the other side of the desk is thinking. Burn no bridges. Good luck.

Marta
02-03-2008, 09:09
I work for a very small company, so my decision to hike had a huge impact on the running of the office. (I was one of two people working in the office; my responsibilities didn't overlap any else's.) I gave them notice that I was going to leave, and that I wanted to be honest about it so we'd have time to find a replacement. The owner said he wanted me to come back afterwards. I ended up being replaced by two, then three people. (!) Two of them knew up front their jobs would be temporary. The other one is still there, working with me now that I'm back.

Anyway...my advice is to draw up several scenarios for yourself, using all the possible variations you can think of, including not attempting a thru-hike.
1) Quit, hike, then figure out what you want to do.
2) LOA, hike, return to job.
3) Get into grad school, hike after grad school.
4) Go to grad school, go into career, hike on vacations.
5) Keep working, section hike...

Try to visualize how you'd feel three years from now, using each of these scenarios. Ten years from now.

Where, on your Life List (Bucket List?) is thru-hiking the AT? Is is #1? Or #10?

How certain are you that you're going to keep hiking? It would be really sad to mess up your life in order to start a hike, and then be back at home in a couple of weeks.

Are you really just looking for a reason to leave your job, except that the stability and money are comfortable and hard to give up?

Ask yourself the hard questions. Be honest with the answers. You'll be in a much better position to make decisions you'll be happy with later on.

(If I've pissed you off by drastically expanding the scope of the question, I'm sorry. Good luck with whatever you decide.)

Roland
02-03-2008, 09:11
Focus,

As you describe it, your current job is a dead-end. You are considering advancing your education in hopes that it will enhance your career opportunities. Here's an approach that might earn the respect of your employer and create an opportunity for you to hike.

1. Tell your employer you enjoy working for the company, and that you enjoy the people.
2. Tell him/her you would like to stay.
3. Tell him/her that you are ready for additional challenges.
4. Ask him/her if they envision any opportunities for advancement, in the near future.
5. Ask if the company is planning an expansion, and if that might create an opportunity for professional growth.
6. If he/she tells you there is no immediate opportunity for advancement, tell them you are willing to continue your education, in order to advance your career.
7. Ask if you completed an advanced degree in two years, would the company have work for you?

If the answers to these questions confirm your suspicion--that you are in a dead-end position--then the time may be right for you to return to school. Give your notice and tell them you are going to grad-school. No employer worth their salt will hold that against you. If you have the financial resources to hike before starting college, do so.

On the other hand, it's possible that your company does have plans for growth, and may be happy to hear you are willing to grow with the company. They may even be willing to pay for your advanced degree. That's why it's important to have this chat.

Good luck, wherever it takes you.

Speer Carrier
02-03-2008, 10:05
Folks, it's not real complicated. If you have a talent and skill that are indispensable to the company, and it is perceived that no one could do the job as well as you have, well then, you'll be welcomed back with open arms. If you just took up space, you'll be forgotten in a day.

wrongway_08
02-03-2008, 10:16
Folks, it's not real complicated. If you have a talent and skill that are indispensable to the company, and it is perceived that no one could do the job as well as you have, well then, you'll be welcomed back with open arms. If you just took up space, you'll be forgotten in a day.


Not always so, working for the Gov't I see them let great workers go and replace them with totally useless Sh!&heads. Seems the Gov't are happy with people that do nothing all day long but waste tax money, sit around rotating on there thumbs and have the great ability to nod their heads and reply YES to everything. Remeber, the next time someone brags they are a G11 up to a G15 pay scale - more then likely they are the most useless "yes" men/women you will ever find.

Thats why, when I put in my LWOP request, it was a no biggie if they didnt want me back - I need a job where they WANT to see something productive out of the people they are payn good money.

soulrebel
02-03-2008, 10:22
Folks, it's not real complicated. If you have a talent and skill that are indispensable to the company, and it is perceived that no one could do the job as well as you have, well then, you'll be welcomed back with open arms. If you just took up space, you'll be forgotten in a day.


Or you'll be replaced immediately because the company won't be able to function with you gone for an extended period of time.

Straight up: I quit a $110,000 salary position where I was top dog to go on my hike.

They said, "Why don't you just go for 2-4 weeks and come back to us."

I said, "Nah, I don't want any restrictions on my journey."

They replied, "Well you know we can't hold your job open for 6 months and we're going to have to replace you."

I said, "I know, and I'm ok with that. It's been great working here, but I've gotta make this trip."

End result. Hiked for 5 months (kept my mortgage) - came back with $4,000 in the bank. Started a home business, searched craigslist for jobs, did interviews, did some construction work, odd jobs.

Finally, after 9 months got a decent job making about half of what i made before-Unfortunately, I accrued $20,000 in debt over the hiatus and am now working my arse off to pay it off. OH yea, I added water to the mix and a kid popped out.

In the end, I haven't had one iota of regret and would do it all over again.

wrongway_08
02-03-2008, 10:30
Or you'll be replaced immediately because the company won't be able to function with you gone for an extended period of time.

Straight up: I quit a $110,000 salary position where I was top dog to go on my hike.

They said, "Why don't you just go for 2-4 weeks and come back to us."

I said, "Nah, I don't want any restrictions on my journey."

They replied, "Well you know we can't hold your job open for 6 months and we're going to have to replace you."

I said, "I know, and I'm ok with that. It's been great working here, but I've gotta make this trip."

End result. Hiked for 5 months (kept my mortgage) - came back with $4,000 in the bank. Started a home business, searched craigslist for jobs, did interviews, did some construction work, odd jobs.

Finally, after 9 months got a decent job making about half of what i made before-Unfortunately, I accrued $20,000 in debt over the hiatus and am now working my arse off to pay it off. OH yea, I added water to the mix and a kid popped out.

In the end, I haven't had one iota of regret and would do it all over again.

That is great! Glad to hear it worked out for you. Life is more fun doing things, being around loved ones and actually doing something with your life.

Money is nice but it even if you have a few million in the bank, if your just sitting around working all the time, not getting what you want outta life - you'd be the poorest man/woman out there.

You sound like one of the richest people I know :sun

soulrebel
02-03-2008, 10:38
Thanks I appreciate that--I wanted to add that I don't have a degree like most folks nowadays. Just a High School diploma-so I often feel like it's hard to even get my toe in the door for most of the jobs out there. But I do have the gift of gab...

wrongway_08
02-03-2008, 10:42
Hahaha, gift of gab - same here! High School, some (like 2 months :) ) of college and vehicle tech schooling.

Thats how I got my current job, the interviewer told me I didnt have the correct requirements but I talked a good talk - so he'd let me have a try at it. Been like 4 years I have been there.

Speer Carrier
02-03-2008, 11:04
Not always so, working for the Gov't I see them let great workers go and replace them with totally useless Sh!&heads. Seems the Gov't are happy with people that do nothing all day long but waste tax money, sit around rotating on there thumbs and have the great ability to nod their heads and reply YES to everything. Remeber, the next time someone brags they are a G11 up to a G15 pay scale - more then likely they are the most useless "yes" men/women you will ever find.

Thats why, when I put in my LWOP request, it was a no biggie if they didnt want me back - I need a job where they WANT to see something productive out of the people they are payn good money.

Yeah, you're right. But I was talking about real businesses motivated by profit. I don't put government in that category.

wrongway_08
02-03-2008, 11:22
Gov't is in its own, shamefull, pittafull, disrespectfull category.............................. hard to understand how bad it really is untill you work for it.

Toolshed
02-03-2008, 12:08
Folks, it's not real complicated. If you have a talent and skill that are indispensable to the company, and it is perceived that no one could do the job as well as you have, well then, you'll be welcomed back with open arms. If you just took up space, you'll be forgotten in a day.
No one is indispensable to thier employer. inconvenient to lose - Yes, difficult to replace - Possibly. But not indispensable.

BigCat
02-03-2008, 12:13
soulrebel: i'm with you. i gave up a senior management job at a fortune 50 company to travel and hike the trail. i now live with my parents. :-)

as for LOAs it really isn't that complicated but here's some tips for working at a large company:
1) HR does NOT make the decisions -- whether or not they tell you, the senior management makes those determinations.
2) because (1) is true, you really need to plead your case to whatever level boss can make the decision. if he/she is ok with it, then HR only serves to manage the paperwork.
3) it's all another case of who you know, not what you know

Panzer1
02-03-2008, 16:00
You should keep in mind that IF the country is sliding into recession it should be in full swing by the time your hike is over and your looking for a job.

Still I don't think there ever is a good time to be out of work. If you wait something else will come up and you may not be able to go.

Panzer

Focus
02-05-2008, 19:40
Just a quick update. I spoke with HR today and they answered a few questions for me.
1. Has anyone ever asked for a LOA of 6 months?
2. Can I be fired for asking for a LOA for 6 months?
Answer to both questions is "NO". So, sometime this week I will be speaking with my immediate director and ask for a LOA. It will come down to what he says, as he has enough weight in the company to make it work, if he wants. You only live once, right?

MOWGLI
02-05-2008, 19:46
I took a leave from Verizon to hike. They couldn't refuse me the leave, but they were so miffed by that, that they changed the leave rules shortly thereafter. :banana

It was a terrible financial decision for me to make, but I don't regret it. Not one bit. I lasted slightly more than 2 years with Verizon after my hike, and then abruptly resigned, relocated, and took a completely different job.

Footslogger
02-05-2008, 19:49
Just a quick update. I spoke with HR today and they answered a few questions for me.
1. Has anyone ever asked for a LOA of 6 months?
2. Can I be fired for asking for a LOA for 6 months?
Answer to both questions is "NO". So, sometime this week I will be speaking with my immediate director and ask for a LOA. It will come down to what he says, as he has enough weight in the company to make it work, if he wants. You only live once, right?

================================

My first approach in 2003 was the 6 month LOA. They didn't hint at firing me or anything. They just said it was out of the question. The most they would give me was 90 days (same as FMLA - maternity leave).

Naturally the 90 day FMLA was insufficient so I "respectfully" resigned on the spot - to their amazement. Once they found out I was dead serious about leaving to hike the trail they became quite interested - still wouldn't grant me the 6 month LOA, but they did ask me to check back with them when I returned.

'Slogger

mudhead
02-05-2008, 19:59
Just a quick update. I spoke with HR today and they answered a few questions for me.
1. Has anyone ever asked for a LOA of 6 months?
2. Can I be fired for asking for a LOA for 6 months?
Answer to both questions is "NO". So, sometime this week I will be speaking with my immediate director and ask for a LOA. It will come down to what he says, as he has enough weight in the company to make it work, if he wants. You only live once, right?

Hope he is in a good frame of mind, cuz the cat is out of the bag!

Good luck. Remember to smile!

Focus
02-07-2008, 14:49
We'll, I just had the LOA conversation with the boss. It seemed to go well, but might come down to whether or not my workmates will cover my duties while I am gone. Let me tell you, I I was smiling ear to ear leaving his office. I feel like a weight has been lifted. Thanks for everyone's advice. The deed has been done.....

Marta
02-07-2008, 14:59
Good man! And good luck with the result...

Footslogger
02-07-2008, 15:04
Way to go Focus ...I remember that day well. Felt like I just took a mental enema.

Good luck to you ...

'Slogger

LIhikers
02-07-2008, 15:22
You have to decide what YOU want to do, and not worry about what the company will let you do. I know I can't get a leave of abscence and I have a job I love so I won't quit to hike. So I'm doing the trail in 1 and 2 week sections using my vacation time.

jzakhar
02-07-2008, 15:27
Good Luck!

I spoke with my boss months ago about a LoA. At first it was granted, but then as time went on more and more reasons kept coming up on why it might not work..

Finally it was suggested I take a few extended trips rather then one long one. So I put my notice in and here we are.

Stoker53
02-07-2008, 17:03
You could ask all your co-workers to dontate $0.10 /mile you hike and give the money to a charity that your company supports.

Good PR for your company - people in need get helped and you get a LOA.

win - win - win

$0.10 / mile was just a swag. You could ask for more and engage your vendors to chip in.

Just a thought.......

Focus
02-07-2008, 18:15
Stoker, that is a great idea. Thanks. Anything to help my case, and as an added bonus help others. I work for a non profit so that fits right in with us.

Pony
02-07-2008, 18:27
I'm so happy that I don't like my job. I get to tell them in about three weeks, though I'm not asking for a leave of absence. I will give them a one month notice since they are nice enough to let me use company time to research for my hike, but I guess I didn't ask permission for that either. I better go before I start to feel guilty.

Focus
03-25-2008, 14:53
Got the answer today..... YES, YES, YES, I cannot believe it. It's a mixture of happiness and nervousness. Tenative start date is April 14 if not the 21st. Hopefully, that is not to late to start and still finish by October 15 or so. Thanks for all the support I received here on WB.

turtle fast
03-25-2008, 15:27
How timely, I had just recently terminated my career with a large international corporation based in the UK where I made big, big money, drove a company vehicle, had health insurance that made other fortune 500 companies look pathetic, and was for the most part autonomious in my position...I had several vp types that I reported to all whom could of cared less or were unsure of whom I exactly worked under (was kinda funny) so they left me alone to do what I did... In short, I had it made....and to quit it all to hike the trail...but not just me...no, my wife to is quitting in 2 weeks to hike with me!!!! :)

Mrs Baggins
03-25-2008, 16:56
We had sold our house, alot of our stuff, put the rest in storage and went to a new job site with my husband's company out of country. We had known for years that we'd be hiking and 2007 was the time to go because we were finally house-free, etc. My husband planned to resign (same large company 25 years) and turned in his letter in January 2007. They said no need to quit, just take an LOA for 7 months! That worked for us! They paid for a couple of more months of our household goods storage and arranged to transfer the payment process to us. We gave up med benefits but that was fine - we found what we needed on-line for the time we'd be gone. We ended up not finishing the trail and in August, 2 months ahead of schedule, they tracked us down through our son and begged my husband to return to work. It worked out perfectly for us as we were at a place where we weren't sure what to do with the rest of the time and the return of a steady income was extremely welcome. He stayed with them just a few more months before joining a new company in our new home area.