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FeO2
02-02-2008, 11:42
First I apologize if this has been covered, I looked and couldn't find it.:o

Anyone read "Deep Survival" by Laurence Gonzales? (copyright 2003). I read it a year ago, EXCELLENT READ, Five Stars, *****

I just responded to the "Into the Wild" post and it reminded me of this book.

I think Deep Survival is a must read, really gives the reader "food for thought". The author presents real life scenarios and "post-mortems" what was going on in their minds. I found this not only thought provoking but also somewhat re-assuring of my own thinking but also an opportunity to learn.

An excellent read!!:p
Thought provoking.:-?

What's your opinion??

JAK
02-02-2008, 11:54
I've noticed the word "Deep" getting used more and more. It is catchy.
Good to hear that the book held up to the expectations the title invokes.

I will look for it. Perhaps I will take it with me next time I go Deep Hiking. ;)

Toolshed
02-02-2008, 12:40
Laurence Gonzalez had about a 12-15 page excerpt from his book named Lost! posted at http://homepage.interaccess.com/~gonzales/Survwd.pdf back around 2004-2005. I think he removed the PDF file because it may have been hurting his sales. Here is a Adirondack-oriented thread where we discussed it a few years ago
http://www.adkforum.com/showthread.php?t=1793&highlight=boomhower
I have been thinking of getting his new book. I used to have lost! saved as a PDF file, but I think I lost it when I moved. :(

10-K
02-02-2008, 13:15
First I apologize if this has been covered, I looked and couldn't find it.:o

Anyone read "Deep Survival" by Laurence Gonzales? (copyright 2003). I read it a year ago, EXCELLENT READ, Five Stars, *****

I just responded to the "Into the Wild" post and it reminded me of this book.

I think Deep Survival is a must read, really gives the reader "food for thought". The author presents real life scenarios and "post-mortems" what was going on in their minds. I found this not only thought provoking but also somewhat re-assuring of my own thinking but also an opportunity to learn.

An excellent read!!:p
Thought provoking.:-?

What's your opinion??

Thanks for the suggestion - I just got the unabridged version off iTunes and will listen to it while I'm out running.

Thomas

micromega
02-02-2008, 14:48
An excellent book, interesting and very well written. More than just another morbid account of accidents, this delves deep into what is happening within the minds of the people involved. I found the sections on emotional bookmarks, perception (whaddya mean, I don't see the world the way it really is?), and 'bending the map' to be fascinating. I really won't be surprised someday to hear someone who survived an accident or disaster of some sort giving credit to this book for having contributed to their survival.

cowpoke
02-02-2008, 21:13
Great read!!!! Friend of mine gave this book to me...intresting perspective. Having been shot off the front end of a carrier at night....I can relate....

SunnyWalker
02-03-2008, 01:25
If it was written "postmortum" then it is all in its entirety, speculation. A typical writer using unfortunate events that happened to another for their own personal gain.

micromega
02-03-2008, 09:41
If it was written "postmortum" then it is all in its entirety, speculation. A typical writer using unfortunate events that happened to another for their own personal gain.

I cannot disagree more. The author interviewed many people involved in the incidents he wrote about, and survivors of similar incidents, along with reading accident reports. For what its worth, many the incidents in the book didn't include fatalities, so he was able to directly interview all the people involved. He also writes about at least one incident that happened to him personally.

As I said earlier, this is not a morbid rehashing of disasters, nor is it a postmortem in the traditional sense. The whole book is written strictly from the perspective of the psychological and biological functioning of the human body which, in an emergency, results in either survival or death. And about the traits and characteristics that all survivors share, and why.

Give the book a shot. Try it. The absolute worst it'll do, as an old professor of mine was fond of saying, is give you an evenings entertainment, enlightenment, and elucidation.

FeO2
02-03-2008, 09:49
[quote=micromega;521941]I cannot disagree more. The author interviewed many people involved in the incidents he wrote about, and survivors of similar incidents, along with reading accident reports. For what its worth, many the incidents in the book didn't include fatalities, so he was able to directly interview all the people involved. He also writes about at least one incident that happened to him personally.

As I said earlier, this is not a morbid rehashing of disasters, nor is it a postmortem in the traditional sense. The whole book is written strictly from the perspective of the psychological and biological functioning of the human body which, in an emergency, results in either survival or death. And about the traits and characteristics that all survivors share, and why.

quote]

Micromega

You are absolutely correct. My bad... Bad choice of words... I attempted to “hastily” recommend a book that I read a year ago and had an impression left on me. Now that I think about it and leaf through the pages, I couldn't be more wrong on the "post-mortem" comment. :confused: (what was I thinking)

That said... I couldn't be more right on the "Five Star" recommendation though! :rolleyes:

FeO2

micromega
02-03-2008, 11:00
Fe02 (is that rust?),

You weren't wrong, just a little too general. This is a post-postmortem at times, just from a very narrowly defined perspective.

Five Stars... Not wrong there either.

Tell me, do you think someone can read this book and use (or benefit by) the information gained to increase chances of survival in an emergency situation?

FeO2
02-03-2008, 11:10
Fe02 (is that rust?),

You weren't wrong, just a little too general. This is a post-postmortem at times, just from a very narrowly defined perspective.

Five Stars... Not wrong there either.

Tell me, do you think someone can read this book and use (or benefit by) the information gained to increase chances of survival in an emergency situation?

Yes, FeO2 is rust (my last name):p

Absolutely, just reading the book leaves the reader cognizant of the psychological reactions that people have. With this awareness I truly believe a person will think twice if they are in a survival situation. Survival is not just what you do in a situation; it is also what your state of mind is. The author covers many scenarios that are thought provoking and leaves an impression. My 2˘

micromega
02-03-2008, 12:36
I agree. After reading the book, I spent a lot of time thinking about it (it IS thought provoking)... At first I thought that it would be of marginal use at best, because when things go wrong, they go haywire in a hurry. Once you get past that 'fracture point' in an emergency, I feel book-learning is going to be of limited value.

Somewhere in the book, Mr. Gonzalez talks about inner resources, about how you can be the most prepared and most educated for the situation at hand, and if you lack the inner resources to fall back on, you very likely won't survive anyway. I eventually came to the conclusion that awareness of the psychological issues covered in the book could be a small part of those inner resources.

But really, when all is said and done, I hope that the main impact this book has on me (or anyone who reads it) is to give a better shot at sidestepping an emergency. As Mr. Gonzalez said, the fact that accidents are an inevitable part of any system doesn't mean they have to happen to you.

quasarr
02-03-2008, 19:46
I read the book recently. I liked the psychological descriptions of how even experienced people can make disastrous mistakes. The book reminded me of an experience I had in Colorado a few years ago. (warning - words! ;) )

In 2005 I was working with a group of ten people, doing trail construction for the Forest Service. We were camped near Idaho Springs, in the center of a U shaped ridge of mountains. If you looked out of the U there was Denver in the distance. The only way in, and the way we had hiked to camp, was a five mile long four-wheel drive road. This road came over the ridge on the right side of the U. At the time, it was mid week so nobody was camping but us.

There was also a lake in the area that drained to a swampy area of willows.

It was a rainy day and the temperature was in the mid forties. We had just finished eating dinner under a big tarp we had set up for cooking. All of a sudden a kid (maybe 16 or so years old) walks out of the woods and says, "Do you guys have a fire I could sit around?"

We looked at him in confusion for a moment. He had come from the left side of the U, where there was no road! He was wearing a cotton t-shirt, shorts, and one flip flop. It was immediately apparent that this kid was in bad shape. He was soaking wet from the rain, his lips were blue, and he was shivering badly. Someone told him that we couldn't start a fire for him because there was a fire ban, realizing how silly it sounded with all the rain and whatnot. Let's call the lost kid "Jim," because I don't remember what his name was.

Right away we made Jim a hot drink and gave him some dry clothes to change into. Somebody even had extra socks and shoes. Gradually he warmed up and told us what happened. He and his friends had been fishing on the other side of the ridge. Their truck got stuck in the mud, they'd had an argument, and Jim left. He thought that I-80 was over the ridge (which it was, but his distance estimation was off by about 30 miles!). I know we didn't get the whole story, and I'm suspicious that drugs and alcohol contributed to his bad decision making.

So after leaving the truck in anger, Jim bushwacked to the top of the ridge. He spotted our tents on the other side and decided to head for us. I can hardly believe he made it down the mountain, which was very steep and covered in loose skree. At some point he lost his sandal.

We had a cell phone and were able to get in touch with Jim's dad, who agreed to pick him up. The dad's car couldn't make it up the road, so two people walked five miles with Jim to meet his dad at the parking lot. I didn't go, but they tell me it was a sad sight to see him strip down to his boxers (to return the borrowed clothes) and get in the car with a very angry father.

Jim was very lucky indeed. He did so many foolish things, I can hardly believe it! Mistake number one, leaving the truck! Mistake two, leaving the road, not even bringing a single item with him for warmth, water, or food. Why didn't he just walk back on the road he came in on? What compelled him to bushwack to the top of a distant ridge? And upon reaching the top of the ridge, when he realized he was mistaken about his location, why didn't he retrace his steps back to the road? :confused::confused: The descent down the mountain was very dangerous, especially considering the wet weather, his improper footwear, and his hypothermia induced clumsiness.

And even making it to the valley, Jim wasn't out of the woods yet. He could've easily gotten lost in the willows and missed our tents completely. It was almost dark and if lost or injured overnight, he stood a very serious chance of dying of hypothermia. Shoot, I don't even know what he was planning to do if he DID make it to the highway. Hitch a ride from the side of the interstate???:confused:

The moral of the story is ... use your head! Jim didn't, and as a result he put his life in serious danger!

doggiebag
02-03-2008, 19:58
You saved the kids life quasarr ... he sounded like a prime Darwin awards candidate.

quasarr
02-03-2008, 20:13
yes I have no doubt that we saved his life. The people who went to meet his father said the father was very thankful for our help, but at the same time very angry with his son.

To add to it all, Jim said he might be charged with grand theft auto because apparently the truck was borrowed-without-permission from his friend's family member ... :eek:

slow
02-03-2008, 22:15
Great read!!!! Friend of mine gave this book to me...intresting perspective. Having been shot off the front end of a carrier at night....I can relate....

You got big ones...in a great way.:)MY Buddy dont care so much for night landings.:D

10-K
02-05-2008, 18:06
I just finished listening to the audiobook version Deep Survival (unabridged). The author has the ability to explain complex subjects in such a way that makes it easy for a layman (that's me..) can understand it.

Specifically I found his explaination of "self organizing systems" so interesting that I looked for more information on the subject and most of what I found was so complicated that it made my eyes glaze over.

Very good, and thanks for the recommendation.

Thanks,
Thomas