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ChinMusic
02-02-2008, 19:46
I just saw this on a Survivorman episode and decided to look it up.

Does the method of fire starting by using potassium permanganate (KMnO4) and glycerin have any practical use in backpacking or survival, or is this just show? Weight-wise it didn't seem like it took much to do the trick.

Comments?

Bob S
02-02-2008, 20:10
How much do those chemicals cost and how much space in a pack? And are they dangerous?


If you are going to start a fire with something you took backpacking, a Bic Lighter is hard to beat. The things he uses on the show are cute & creative, but I will bet that he has a regular lighter when he’s out in the wild and not doing the show.

I saw an episode where he used a thing called a “Fire Piston” I thought it was cute, I looked them up on the net. They cost $70.00 and up. If I’m going to carry a fire piston, why not a Bic lighter? For $75.00 I can buy a lot of lighters.

shelterbuilder
02-02-2008, 20:23
How much do those chemicals cost and how much space in a pack? And are they dangerous?


If you are going to start a fire with something you took backpacking, a Bic Lighter is hard to beat. The things he uses on the show are cute & creative, but I will bet that he has a regular lighter when he’s out in the wild and not doing the show.

I saw an episode where he used a thing called a “Fire Piston” I thought it was cute, I looked them up on the net. They cost $70.00 and up. If I’m going to carry a fire piston, why not a Bic lighter? For $75.00 I can buy a lot of lighters.

The fire piston lost its popularity when phosphorus-tipped matches were invented. It now occupies a small niche of popularity with a segment of survivalists and "primitive" campers. Yes, they do work, but they are very expensive for what they are. Yes, Bic lighters are infinitely cheaper!

Permanganate and glycerin is much the same thing - it's cool to be able to show off your chemistry skills, but there are cheaper, easier ways to get a fire started. And God help you if the two chemicals leak together in your pack - I would hate to be known by the trail name "Roamin' Candle"!:eek:

take-a-knee
02-02-2008, 20:33
I just saw this on a Survivorman episode and decided to look it up.

Does the method of fire starting by using potassium permanganate (KMnO4) and glycerin have any practical use in backpacking or survival, or is this just show? Weight-wise it didn't seem like it took much to do the trick.

Comments?

It does work well and it doesn't take much to light up. Be advised if you go to a chemical supply house to buy these items you'll likely be required to show some ID for obvious reasons.

scavenger
02-02-2008, 20:39
the whole point of primitive tools like a fire piston is that you can make them yourself

mudhead
02-02-2008, 20:40
In other words, don't forget the ID. A list you might not want to be on...

Might not want to try and buy the Jethro size.

Isn't this the stuff used to make volcanos blow in grade school? (70's)

ChinMusic
02-02-2008, 20:54
It does work well and it doesn't take much to light up. Be advised if you go to a chemical supply house to buy these items you'll likely be required to show some ID for obvious reasons.
I prob could get a small sample from my old college chem lab, unless it is something protected to a greater degree than I know.

bob s - For SURE you would not want to carry the two items near each other.

ChinMusic
02-02-2008, 20:56
Isn't this the stuff used to make volcanos blow in grade school? (70's)
Can't be. There would have been too much heat.

WalkinHome
02-02-2008, 21:43
Combining potassium permanganate with certain other easy to find chemicals will create explosives. That is not the problem with using these combinations. The big number one rule is DON'T TRY TO CONFINE IT OR STOMP IT OUT!! I'm just sayin.....

Darwin again
02-03-2008, 00:12
Those chemicals create a thermite reaction (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermite). It's nothing you want to mess with unless you've got specialized training; very very dangerous.

If any authority types find out you've got them on your person, or word travels around on the trail that you're making intense little explosions with chemicals, plan on eventually spending some quality time with law enforcement. Perhaps of the federal flavor. Making explosives is taken seriously in these times...

The bic is best. (And won't get you detained or arrested.);)

take-a-knee
02-03-2008, 00:35
Those chemicals create a thermite reaction (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermite). It's nothing you want to mess with unless you've got specialized training; very very dangerous.

If any authority types find out you've got them on your person, or word travels around on the trail that you're making intense little explosions with chemicals, plan on eventually spending some quality time with law enforcement. Perhaps of the federal flavor. Making explosives is taken seriously in these times...

The bic is best. (And won't get you detained or arrested.);)

It isn't an explosion, it is an iciendary. There is quite a difference. Some charges are sort of both, like foo gas, which is what hollywood uses mostly. If you think a bic lighter is the best source of fire in the woods you shouldn't be giving advice on such matters, cause you are clueless.

vonfrick
02-03-2008, 00:44
Those chemicals create a thermite reaction (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermite). It's nothing you want to mess with unless you've got specialized training; very very dangerous.

If any authority types find out you've got them on your person, or word travels around on the trail that you're making intense little explosions with chemicals, plan on eventually spending some quality time with law enforcement. Perhaps of the federal flavor. Making explosives is taken seriously in these times...

The bic is best. (And won't get you detained or arrested.);)

guys, i'm a chemist, and that s*%t definitely falls under the category of "don't try this at home". not to mention the environmental impact.

GGS2
02-03-2008, 03:07
If you think a bic lighter is the best source of fire in the woods you shouldn't be giving advice on such matters, cause you are clueless.

Nothing wrong with a Bic on the trail, provided you don't consider it to be your backup, too. Can be troublesome depending on climate and weather, but convenient and compact. Just a ready-made spark and tinder device. But if you want to be a true woodsman, you should know several ways to make fire, and be practiced in them all. For lunch on the trail, a Bic will do you well most of the time. In a survival situation, I wouldn't like it to be the only thing between me and a cold death.

Dances with Mice
02-03-2008, 03:16
Potassium permangate wouldn't be my top choice for inclusion in a survival kit and I'd never keep it in my house. I wouldn't trust untrained people to handle it and a clever 13 year-old could go from making chemical fires in his backyard to building a bomb with just one trip to the refrigerator. There are many other compounds that yield fire when mixed and are much easier to obtain than Potssium per, and they would have other uses in survival situations. I'm not going to list them, sorry. But the last time I was at Wal-Mart I saw two examples on shelves a couple of steps from each other.

GGS2
02-03-2008, 03:35
Ah! Exothermic reactions, what fun. Reminds me of my misspent youth making gunpowder mortar tubes. Those days are long gone, thank heaven. Survived with all my fingers and eyebrows too. Some didn't.

Why not learn from our predecessors? There are several ways to make fire by friction with nothing more flammable than wood. It takes practice, but when you know how to do it, you'll never be out of fire making materials. Then there are the ferrocerium and steel methods (spark sticks, lighter flint wheels), and the old favorite flint and steel. Tinders range from traditional thru natural to exotics like steel wool, and various petroleum derivatives. And as the story goes, boy scout to boy scout, making fire by rubbing two sticks together works best if one of them is a (waterproofed) match. Resort to deflagration reactions (other than matches safely waterproofed in wax -- make sure they are not safety matches) is not safe, nor in these days of hysteria, likely not legal. I'm sure there are even more nifty ways to make fire in extremis. Why not learn a few? I generally carry a lighter plus a ferrocerium rod and striker, and some waterproofed matches. I also carry a knife (two actually) with which to gather tinder. The lighter is most convenient, the matches next up, the ferrocerium is almost foolproof, and if all else fails, I will try to make fire by friction using a bow drill technique. I'm not ultra reliable at that, so I need more practice. I plead a mis-spent youth with too much technology.

Darwin again
02-03-2008, 11:58
Take a knee: It isn't an explosion, it is an iciendary. There is quite a difference. Some charges are sort of both, like foo gas, which is what hollywood uses mostly. If you think a bic lighter is the best source of fire in the woods you shouldn't be giving advice on such matters, cause you are clueless.

An explosion is just a very fast (often in a confined space) burn. Types of explosives are categorized by the speed of their burn. If you put an incendiary (your word) into an enclosed space, you get an explosion. In any case, I'd say the number of hikers making and using thermite to light their camp fires and stoves compared to the number using Bic lighters is, uh, how you say, insignificant, if not nonexistant.

Also, Mister Knee, the term of art is "fougasse." The type of reaction, as you described it, is of a fuel-air explosion -- it's also a Vietnam War-era term for a type of explosive anti-personnel expedient using diesel and an explosive device to spread and ignite that fuel -- descriptions can be found in mil. field manuals of that time period. Another definition of the word is for a type of French bread, but you likely know that already.:rolleyes:

Also, someone would have to check on this, but I'm pretty sure mixing up thermite reactions on federal land is ILLEGAL, especially in the context of hiking and camping. Telling someone it's OK to do this is not a good idea, not merely from a law enforcement perspective, but also from the fact that a person could get badly injured/burned or even killed doing it.

Calling someone clueless for suggesting that a Bic lighter is good for use on the Appalachian Trail transcends stupid and enters the realm of mental defect.

Just 'cause you seen it on the teevee doesn't mean it's good to do yourself. Unless you want to go for a Darwin Award. In that case, never mind the boring little Bic. :rolleyes:

kayak karl
02-03-2008, 13:10
Ah! Exothermic reactions, what fun. Reminds me of my misspent youth making gunpowder mortar tubes. Those days are long gone, thank heaven. Survived with all my fingers and eyebrows too. Some didn't.

same miss-spent use, but with me it was rockets, every combination zinc, sulfur, potassium, nitrate, azide you can think of. we used the permanganate thing for time delay fuse. ended up using a flash bulb (w/ glass broken) could time take off better. rocket career ended with hole in baseball field and 11 broken windows in school. if that happened with todays laws, i'd probably be getting out about now.
Potassium Permanganate is very unstable (potassium nitrate is used to make it; saltpeter, fertilizer). will soak up moisture quickly and then is useless for fire. turns everything purple. handlotion can set it off:D

GGS2
02-03-2008, 13:35
Potassium Permanganate is very unstable (potassium nitrate is used to make it; saltpeter, fertilizer). will soak up moisture quickly and then is useless for fire. turns everything purple. handlotion can set it off:D

Good for removing blood stains from lab glassware, I'm told. I don't have any bloodstained glassware, so I've never tried it.

Terry7
02-03-2008, 13:40
I just saw this on a Survivorman episode and decided to look it up.

Does the method of fire starting by using potassium permanganate (KMnO4) and glycerin have any practical use in backpacking or survival, or is this just show? Weight-wise it didn't seem like it took much to do the trick.

Comments?
The show is about using the things you have at hand. I read an interview where the Survivorman uses the normal things we do when he goes out for fun. By the way I started a thread yesterday about the show.

kayak karl
02-03-2008, 15:01
The show is about using the things you have at hand. I read an interview where the Survivorman uses the normal things we do when he goes out for fun. By the way I started a thread yesterday about the show.
potassium permanganate and glycerin are not found in todays med kits. i think some of the show is a little sensationalizm. its a fun to know, but not a need to know to survive. i still like the show:)

take-a-knee
02-03-2008, 20:47
An explosion is just a very fast (often in a confined space) burn. Types of explosives are categorized by the speed of their burn. If you put an incendiary (your word) into an enclosed space, you get an explosion. In any case, I'd say the number of hikers making and using thermite to light their camp fires and stoves compared to the number using Bic lighters is, uh, how you say, insignificant, if not nonexistant.

Also, Mister Knee, the term of art is "fougasse." The type of reaction, as you described it, is of a fuel-air explosion -- it's also a Vietnam War-era term for a type of explosive anti-personnel expedient using diesel and an explosive device to spread and ignite that fuel -- descriptions can be found in mil. field manuals of that time period. Another definition of the word is for a type of French bread, but you likely know that already.:rolleyes:

Also, someone would have to check on this, but I'm pretty sure mixing up thermite reactions on federal land is ILLEGAL, especially in the context of hiking and camping. Telling someone it's OK to do this is not a good idea, not merely from a law enforcement perspective, but also from the fact that a person could get badly injured/burned or even killed doing it.

Calling someone clueless for suggesting that a Bic lighter is good for use on the Appalachian Trail transcends stupid and enters the realm of mental defect.

Just 'cause you seen it on the teevee doesn't mean it's good to do yourself. Unless you want to go for a Darwin Award. In that case, never mind the boring little Bic. :rolleyes:

Okay Darwin, I'm no english or physics major, but I am retired Special Forces, and I've blown up more stuff than you could probably imagine, so you are obviously FOS on that point. I'm also not a lawyer but I'm sure you are FOS about the legality of using two chemicals to start a campfire. Also, if you think it is smart to rely on a 99cent cig lighter to produce a potentially life-saving fire then you are obviously the one who's stuck on stupid. The SAS has taught this technique for decades and it is also taught at Army SERE, they don't teach "bic lighter". So, I guess the whole spec ops community is a bunch "mental defectives". You might oughta shut your ignorant pie-whole before you look even dumber.

rafe
02-03-2008, 22:04
You might oughta shut your ignorant pie-whole before you look even dumber.

Earth to TAK: "You might oughta" spell-check your insults, particularly when commenting on your opponent's intelligence. :rolleyes:

ChinMusic
02-03-2008, 22:09
I would NEVER argue with a Special Forces guy regarding pie-hole......:D

take-a-knee
02-03-2008, 22:37
Earth to TAK: "You might oughta" spell-check your insults, particularly when commenting on your opponent's intelligence. :rolleyes:

You think I oughta do that terrapin? So's I could impress you no doubt? Impressing folks has never been on my to-do list. I was, however, quite impressed with your photographic abilities.

rafe
02-03-2008, 22:46
I was, however, quite impressed with your photographic abilities.

Just a different kind of shooting is all. ;)

4eyedbuzzard
02-04-2008, 00:21
You can buy potassium permanganate at photo suppliers or where water treatment supplies are sold - in fairly large quantities. Glycerine can be purchased almost anywhere, and sucrose or other sugars will also work to create the reaction. Given its common use as an oxidizer in many areas, and the quantities purchased for survival kits, I doubt anyone will see helicopters flying around their house after buying it.

I think waterproof matches, some vaselined cotton balls, and a couple of esbits are an easier survival backup for all those survival situations encountered in the AT wilderness.

Wise Old Owl
02-04-2008, 00:43
Awful the amount of bickering on this thread when people are looking for help. As for the Bic lighter it is a "cheap safe and sage idea" dunk it in a glass of water and it is suddenly a useless item. Put it in a watertight container or purchase a water tight, wind proof one - all the better. Hey if you want to go purchase chemicals to make you hike better that's fine. Thousands of lights available each way, far more than matches. Survival isn't hiking the AT. Survival skills are in the head, its about making the best in spite of the worst moment in you life. It's about taking advantage of what is at hand. Not about the legality of chemical reactions. If you start a fire that gets out of control then that is a different matter. I respect all your opinions - until you write something inappropriate. How about we all step up after this and clean it up.

Bob S
02-04-2008, 01:16
A bic lighter with a backup lighter and you are OK. I do also carry a magnesium stick and some homemade waterproof matches.

As far as a lighter getting wet, blow on it for a min and it will spark again. I’ve had to do this numerous times and it worked great.

I’m not a chemical expert or a Military trained survival expert, so I won’t say how well it works to mix chemicals. But I am a person that doesn’t want to blow myself up or get scared for life playing junior chemical survivalist.


By the way, you can claim you are anything on the net and we have no way to know if it’s true or BS. Not to offend any chemical or survival experts here, but don’t expect me to take your advice on playing with dangerous chemicals when I have no real idea who you are.

WalkinHome
02-04-2008, 09:29
Awful the amount of bickering on this thread when people are looking for help. As for the Bic lighter it is a "cheap safe and sage idea" dunk it in a glass of water and it is suddenly a useless item. Put it in a watertight container or purchase a water tight, wind proof one - all the better. Hey if you want to go purchase chemicals to make you hike better that's fine. Thousands of lights available each way, far more than matches. Survival isn't hiking the AT. Survival skills are in the head, its about making the best in spite of the worst moment in you life. It's about taking advantage of what is at hand. Not about the legality of chemical reactions. If you start a fire that gets out of control then that is a different matter. I respect all your opinions - until you write something inappropriate. How about we all step up after this and clean it up.

I have to respectfully disagree with this characterization of this thread. In fact I think it is a more moderate thread than most on White Blaze LOL. A question was asked supposedly to explore the pros and cons of using a quite dangerous (and illegal) method of fire starting. Folks chimed in that have more experience (and willing to pass along that knowledge) with this and posted as such. The goal is/was not to slam the individual but to enlighten him/her to protect him/her and any hikers around when this method might be used. That, I think, is the greater good here. If there is a credibility issue (don't know you so I don't believe you) then by all means verify by independent sources. I have to wonder that if you are not going to believe what is passed along on this site what you are asking questions for? My $.02 put forward in a calm, non confrontational want to help tone LOL. Be safe

4eyedbuzzard
02-04-2008, 09:31
A question was asked supposedly to explore the pros and cons of using a quite dangerous (and illegal) method of fire starting.

I don't think it's the best backup by any means, but seriously, under what statute is it "illegal"?

WalkinHome
02-04-2008, 10:03
I don't think it's the best backup by any means, but seriously, under what statute is it "illegal"?

If you are storing two chemicals and then combine them to create a binary explosive then you are required to get an explosive's mixing permit/license. If you are storing or carrying around a pre-mixed explosive mixture you would need to be licensed to transport and implement the explosive. I would not be surprised to see that the current view/laws on these types of material has been tightened up considerably but that is conjecture on my part. I cannot quote the exact law (should be easy enough to Google) but I have a close relative that works in this field under contract to the guvmnt' and he has, on occasion been cited for variations of these types of situations and he has been in the business for over 30 years. One of the more humorous was when he was storing a binary, one chemical in each bunker with plenty of separation. When inspected he told the authorities that he was not storing explosives. Off the hook right? Wrongo - They asked him what he did with these two chemicals and he said he combines them on site to do the work. They cited him for manufacturing explosives without a license. He was not pleased LOL.

4eyedbuzzard
02-04-2008, 12:50
It's a binary chemical incendiary device!!! :eek:

Er, ah, like a common safety match? :-?


Just saying, I don't think it's illegal as potassium permanganate has legitimate antiseptic uses in a first aid kit and also water treatment/purification uses, and glycerol skin products(humectants), as well as laxatives are very common. Virtually any sugar can be used as a substitute for the glycerol fuel as well. Add to that the reaction is incendiary in an unconfined space, not explosive, and the intent is to start a fire for legitimate purpose.


I doubt there could be legislation written to outlaw possession of such common chemicals simply because so many of them can be used to create deadly compounds, incendiaries, or even explosives. Base upon what's in most people's homes or on a trip to the supermarket and drugstore, virtually everyone is already in possession of binary and tertiary explosive components. Common items like acetone, peroxide, battery acid, hexamine, bleach, ammonia, fuel oil, fertilizer, etc could brand virtually anyone a criminal.

WalkinHome
02-04-2008, 13:45
It's a binary chemical incendiary device!!! :eek:

Er, ah, like a common safety match? :-?


Just saying, I don't think it's illegal as potassium permanganate has legitimate antiseptic uses in a first aid kit and also water treatment/purification uses, and glycerol skin products(humectants), as well as laxatives are very common. Virtually any sugar can be used as a substitute for the glycerol fuel as well. Add to that the reaction is incendiary in an unconfined space, not explosive, and the intent is to start a fire for legitimate purpose.


I doubt there could be legislation written to outlaw possession of such common chemicals simply because so many of them can be used to create deadly compounds, incendiaries, or even explosives. Base upon what's in most people's homes or on a trip to the supermarket and drugstore, virtually everyone is already in possession of binary and tertiary explosive components. Common items like acetone, peroxide, battery acid, hexamine, bleach, ammonia, fuel oil, fertilizer, etc could brand virtually anyone a criminal.

Will plead nolo contendere to the illegalities. I see your point but my whole participation was geared to the thought that I do not think that it is a good idea to be messing around with this chemical for such mundane things as fire starting (especially with so many other benign alternatives). This chemical was included in my Special Forces recipe book for improvised explosives so that is where I was coming from. It was not a great leap to my posts LOL. Hopefully hikers will stay away from this stuff and if they don't, I hope that inncocent by standers are not affected. Now if you wanted to use C4 as fuel ..........LOL

take-a-knee
02-04-2008, 14:14
Will plead nolo contendere to the illegalities. I see your point but my whole participation was geared to the thought that I do not think that it is a good idea to be messing around with this chemical for such mundane things as fire starting (especially with so many other benign alternatives). This chemical was included in my Special Forces recipe book for improvised explosives so that is where I was coming from. It was not a great leap to my posts LOL. Hopefully hikers will stay away from this stuff and if they don't, I hope that inncocent by standers are not affected. Now if you wanted to use C4 as fuel ..........LOL

Well, you can use C-4 for fuel, though I wouldn't reccomend it because IT CAN GO HIGH ORDER!(that is blowup for you non demo types). A tiny amount of potassium permanganate will not, so, all you explosive experts who've never blown anything up, say what you will, but this is a viable method of lighting a fire under adverse circumstances and it is a hell of a lot more reliable, compact, and lighter than a fire piston, bow&drill, etc. My personal pick is a cut-down magnesium bar/hacksaw blade and a supply of vaseline-soaked cotton swabs. The mag bar/hacksaw blade will light a cannister stove also.

Fiddler
02-04-2008, 14:27
This chemical was included in my Special Forces recipe book for improvised explosives
Don't forget to tell them what you can do with egg whites plus 2 or 3 other equally common household ingredients.

Christopher Robin
02-04-2008, 16:13
I collect used candells and wrap 3" in a 5" x 6" of wax papper around the candell and twist the ends making a good fire stared. I put about two of them in a small zip-lock.
Audrey

Bob S
02-04-2008, 17:46
I collect used candells and wrap 3" in a 5" x 6" of wax papper around the candell and twist the ends making a good fire stared. I put about two of them in a small zip-lock.
Audrey

I make homemade fire starters out of cardboard and strike anyplace matches.
I put matches in the holes of corrugated cardboard (every other hole) cut into strips and then I dip them in wax. I can cut off the amount that I will need for each fire. They are self contained; I just scrape the wax off the match head and strike anyplace. No need to use a lighter or matches. These are 100% waterproof, The only problem with them is everybody wants me to make them some. I cut them up as I need them, usually in a length of 4 or 5 matched. Just let all the matches light up and put it down and pile on the tinder. These always work and are very inexpensive and quick to make.

I bought an old pot at the thrift store for melting wax and use a Sterno can & stove to melt it in the garage. Candle wax is easy to come by at garage sales for almost nothing. I have a box with like 15 pounds of it I have accumulated over the years.

Bob S
02-04-2008, 17:48
That’s weird, the first sentence in my post is in bold, I did not type it in bold????

TIDE-HSV
02-04-2008, 20:57
LOL! I had to have a laugh at this thread, since it's what got my chemistry set confiscated when I was nine years old. The chemistry set was supposed to be "safe." However, potassium nitrate was easily obtainable at the drugstore, so I obtained it. I already had the sulphur and carbon I needed for black powder. I made a bed of the black powder. Then, I nestled a bed of powdered magnesium (what makes a sparkler sparkle) atop the black powder, and placed the potassium permanganate (potash) on that and poured the glycerin on the potash. Then I ran for the kitchen door, since I'd done this in the middle of the kitchen table. The flash-bang was spectacular and a column of smoke rose and formed a mushroom cloud against the kitchen ceiling. Unfortunately, the sulphur splattered out and marked the wallpaper for good (bad technique?). This was 1948. So, the chemistry set was gone and I had to look at the wallpaper for several more years until the house finally got sold to my grandmother...

Darwin again
02-05-2008, 00:22
Okay Darwin, I'm no english or physics major, but I am retired Special Forces, and I've blown up more stuff than you could probably imagine, so you are obviously FOS on that point. I'm also not a lawyer but I'm sure you are FOS about the legality of using two chemicals to start a campfire. Also, if you think it is smart to rely on a 99cent cig lighter to produce a potentially life-saving fire then you are obviously the one who's stuck on stupid. The SAS has taught this technique for decades and it is also taught at Army SERE, they don't teach "bic lighter". So, I guess the whole spec ops community is a bunch "mental defectives". You might oughta shut your ignorant pie-whole before you look even dumber.

Your resume: I don't care.
Take your intimidating tone elsewhere, thanks.

There are many better ways of doing things than the military way.
I've use a Bic mini for all of my AT hiking and it works fine. (I carry two.)

Feel free to ask a Park Ranger or two if it's okey dokey to start fires that way in their AO. I think you'll be surprised at their response. You might even be considered a person of interest just for asking.

Eeeeeeeeverybody's a former special operator...:rolleyes:
(Here's a hint: The real ones don't talk about it; they're quiet and professional.)

Have a nice day. (Who Dares Wins, btw.):dance

rafe
02-05-2008, 00:30
There are many better ways of doing things than the military way.

Ayy-Frickin'-Men.

Wise Old Owl
02-05-2008, 00:56
I have to respectfully disagree with this characterization of this thread. In fact I think it is a more moderate thread than most on White Blaze LOL. A question was asked supposedly to explore the pros and cons of using a quite dangerous (and illegal) method of fire starting. Folks chimed in that have more experience (and willing to pass along that knowledge) with this and posted as such. The goal is/was not to slam the individual but to enlighten him/her to protect him/her and any hikers around when this method might be used. That, I think, is the greater good here. If there is a credibility issue (don't know you so I don't believe you) then by all means verify by independent sources. I have to wonder that if you are not going to believe what is passed along on this site what you are asking questions for? My $.02 put forward in a calm, non confrontational want to help tone LOL. Be safe

Hey, where did you even see a question in my post? your 2cents isn't worth much. Go back and do your homework. Yea you might be right it isn't as bad as other threads, just look again.

take-a-knee
02-05-2008, 01:38
[quote=Darwin again;523984]Your resume: I don't care.
Take your intimidating tone elsewhere, thanks.

There are many better ways of doing things than the military way.
I've use a Bic mini for all of my AT hiking and it works fine. (I carry two.)

Feel free to ask a Park Ranger or two if it's okey dokey to start fires that way in their AO. I think you'll be surprised at their response. You might even be considered a person of interest just for asking.

Eeeeeeeeverybody's a former special operator...:rolleyes:
(Here's a hint: The real ones don't talk about it; they're quiet and professional.)


Have a nice day. (Who Dares Wins, btw.):dance[/quot

You are obviously easily intimidated Darwin...maybe you need to evolve more. I never was quiet but I always tried to be professional, that "quiet professional " crap was coined by some POS officer who got tired of being out-run, out-shot, and out-thought buy his "sly and cunning" subordinates.

fiddlehead
02-05-2008, 02:35
Bic lighter is my no. one firestarter.
My backup is a lighter from Thailand that has a bigger flame, doesn't have the childproof extra button to hold down ( tough when in the 1st stages of hypothermia) and easy to see how much fuel is left.) You can even buy them now with a small built in photon light.
You can dunk both in water, blow on them, or just wait till they dry, and they work again. (Let's see you put those waterproof matches in the bottom of a bucket of water for a few hours and light your fire with your cold wet hands.)

A lighter and a backup lighter is the preferred method for most of my hiking and my friend's.
Now fight nice you guys. (or go do some hiking and get those bad vibes out of your system)

rafe
02-05-2008, 08:52
Agreed. Carry multiple lighters, packed in different areas of the pack. What's the big deal? Y'all been watching too much "Survivor Man." :rolleyes: You want adventure, volunteer for a stint in Iraq.

Dances with Mice
02-05-2008, 09:39
Now that we have all the survivalists and both amateur and professional improvised explosives experts gathered in one place, I'd like to discuss something of great national importance.

Of course you know I'm talking about the secret plan of the Sports Jugglers for world domination. And if you're a good, upstanding, patriotic American you're probably asking just one question right now:

"Mr. Dances with Mice, sir? What the hell are you talking about?"

And that proves my point. I TOLD you it was a secret! With just a few years of extra training, some ex-Special Forces members might be able to join our fight. Some think it may not be too late to save the world. But it's getting hard to ignore the evidence that it already is much too late. And I know some of you are probably thinking,

"Mr. Dances with Mice, sir? What the hell are you talking about?"

For the first time I can reveal video taken by one of our undercover operatives using a hidden camera to infiltrate a recent meeting of the Sports Jugglers. This video is frightening. The Sports Jugglers no longer make any attempt to hide their Masonic connections. It clearly shows that they have already taken over the Girl Scouts. There is evidence of large rodent worship ceremonies.

Watch it (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zo34m0PJBk)and be afraid. Be very afraid.

rafe
02-05-2008, 09:49
Awesome video. The cheerleaders especially.

Darwin again
02-05-2008, 09:50
Truer words have never been typed, Mister Mice.
As Minnesota Smith tried to tell me, "They're all around us!"
But did I listen? newp. Now, it's doom, doom, doom, everywhere!

Now I -- and we all -- will find the cost of juggling clown freedom ...:(
(And I now understand that no retired ex-special super-secret-deluxe pinky-promise lurky chemical-mixing tough guys who can't stop comparing their penile distensions are going to save us, either! Doh!)

Here's a better way to make fire and fight the clowns at the same time: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79Aw8nH9IrM

Darwin again
02-05-2008, 10:03
You are obviously easily intimidated Darwin...maybe you need to evolve more. I never was quiet but I always tried to be professional, that "quiet professional " crap was coined by some POS officer who got tired of being out-run, out-shot, and out-thought buy his "sly and cunning" subordinates.

Oh no! It's PSYCO-OPS!;)
Mister Knee, say hello to my ignore button.
(poof!)

Dances with Mice
02-05-2008, 10:04
Awesome video. The cheerleaders especially.See what happens? She was just a cute little Girl Scout last week. Then the Sports Jugglers recruited her to be a cheerleader.

Wise Old Owl
02-05-2008, 11:27
In other words, don't forget the ID. A list you might not want to be on...



I found this, kinda kills the whole idea

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Wise Old Owl
02-05-2008, 11:59
Agreed. Carry multiple lighters, packed in different areas of the pack. What's the big deal? Y'all been watching too much "Survivor Man." :rolleyes: You want adventure, volunteer for a stint in Iraq.


I hear there is no age limit for volunteer's! You have to fill out a form and take a test to see if you are of sound mind and body, - Damn that prevents those "special ops guys" Just Kidding:D

I crack myself up!

Darwin again
02-05-2008, 12:18
Army is accepting volunteers up to age 42 now.
Just FYI. In case anyone wants to step up. :rolleyes:

take-a-knee
02-05-2008, 12:20
Now that we have all the survivalists and both amateur and professional improvised explosives experts gathered in one place, I'd like to discuss something of great national importance.

Of course you know I'm talking about the secret plan of the Sports Jugglers for world domination. And if you're a good, upstanding, patriotic American you're probably asking just one question right now:

"Mr. Dances with Mice, sir? What the hell are you talking about?"

And that proves my point. I TOLD you it was a secret! With just a few years of extra training, some ex-Special Forces members might be able to join our fight. Some think it may not be too late to save the world. But it's getting hard to ignore the evidence that it already is much too late. And I know some of you are probably thinking,

"Mr. Dances with Mice, sir? What the hell are you talking about?"

For the first time I can reveal video taken by one of our undercover operatives using a hidden camera to infiltrate a recent meeting of the Sports Jugglers. This video is frightening. The Sports Jugglers no longer make any attempt to hide their Masonic connections. It clearly shows that they have already taken over the Girl Scouts. There is evidence of large rodent worship ceremonies.

Watch it (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zo34m0PJBk)and be afraid. Be very afraid.

You were the bearded guy in the green-pleat skirt DWM? I had no idea you were so talented!

take-a-knee
02-05-2008, 12:23
Agreed. Carry multiple lighters, packed in different areas of the pack. What's the big deal? Y'all been watching too much "Survivor Man." :rolleyes: You want adventure, volunteer for a stint in Iraq.

Already been there Terrapin, I guarded a bunch of EOD guys over there who were, wonder of wonders, blowing stuff up...by the ton.

Dances with Mice
02-05-2008, 14:01
You were the bearded guy in the green-pleat skirt DWM? I had no idea you were so talented!That wasn't me but I'll tell mom you liked her routine.