Thru-Hikers dropping out after 30 miles

[OhioNative]

I read a surprising statistic that 20% of thru-hikers drop out after only 30 miles. What do you think went wrong for these hikers - lack of planning? inexperience (e.g college kids not realizing what they were in for)? Other unforseen factors?

[Ron Haven]

I read a surprising statistic that 20% of thru-hikers drop out after only 30 miles. What do you think went wrong for these hikers - lack of planning? inexperience (e.g college kids not realizing what they were in for)? Other unforseen factors?scared the spouse would be cheating while they were gone.

[Bearpaw]

Not realizing what they were getting into. When I thru-hiked, I was in very good shape (just out of the Marine Corps) and had logged well over 1000 backcountry miles in many different areas.

My first impression of the AT (well, actually the approach trail) was that this was going to be TOUGH. To me, thoughts of 15 miles days seemed like cakewalks. But when you hit the kind of uphills you encounter in the southern and northern AT, it's a real blow to the senses.

I think many decide it's just too much after the first 3-6 days of hiking uphill like they have never done before.

[Pacific Tortuga]

There was plenty of " cheatin' " going on, on the Trail too. :-?

[doggiebag]

I'd go with inexperience with regards to the rigors and self-imposed deprivation brought on by the trail ... or they may be looking at the entire trek as 2,175 miles instead of focusing on the day to day challenge of learining to be comfortable in a un-comfortable environment. The folks that drop out to soon have not even acquired their trail-legs.

[dessertrat]

"It wasn't what I expected", is the classic line, according to Bryson's book. Never having hiked the trail in Georgia, I wouldn't know what to expect either.

[Nean]

Most people have no ideal how soft and spoiled they really are.:eek: When they do find out, they go home.:welcome It don't take long.:)

[Jack Tarlin]

Personally, I think that 20% figure is kinda high.

[rafe]

Trail didn't meet their expectations, I guess. A surprising number of folks start at Springer with little or no backpacking experience, and many have never set foot on the AT. (Which doesn't necessarily mean that all such greenhorns fail, by the way.)

I dare say, failures of this sort are rare for SOBO starters. You kinda need to know your stuff somewhat, when you start from Katahdin.

[max patch]

Personally, I think that 20% figure is kinda high.



I agree; while a surprising amount of people quit at Neels, and to a lesser extent Suches, no way is it 1 out of every 5 hikers.

[The Weasel]

I think a lot of people realize, after a week (which for those who are really, really, challenged, might be 30 miles), that doing the whole thing is just 150 days of the same damn thing, walking the tunnel, PUDS, noodles/sauce, rain, and then the next day is the same, with a few wonderful views. I loved the Trail - still do - but one of the problems is that a lot of people don't realize how much into Zen you have to get - whether you call it that or something else - to handle just walking, walking, walking.

TW

[rafe]

I think a lot of people realize, after a week (which for those who are really, really, challenged, might be 30 miles), that doing the whole thing is just 150 days of the same damn thing, walking the tunnel, PUDS, noodles/sauce, rain, and then the next day is the same, with a few wonderful views. I loved the Trail - still do - but one of the problems is that a lot of people don't realize how much into Zen you have to get - whether you call it that or something else - to handle just walking, walking, walking.

TW

Which is a fancy way of saying... it gets boring. ;) (I'm not disagreeing with the content of Weasel's post, BTW.)

[Chaco Taco]

Some may find there gear is not up to standards, especially if they start in bad weather.

[emerald]

Below is an excerpt from an email I sent someone about 2 years ago. Yes, I really do keep some of it.

The hardest part is going to be getting beyond the first few weeks. That's not impossible if you're well prepared. I don't think the Georgia A.T. was deliberately laid out to weed out, but it's very effective at helping people make up their minds about whether or not they really desire to hike the A.T.

I think being a West Virginian puts you at a distinct advantage with respect to other hikers. You grew up knowing Appalachian is pronounced Appalatchin, not Appalayshin or the hybrid Appalaychin and thus will not need to unlearn what Yankees are wrongly taught. You're also going to be on the right side of that argument. More importantly, you know it's the Appalatchin Trial. Trail really ought to be pronounced more like trial, because that's what it is. It's not some nice walk in the woods, although it can be an incredibly rewarding experience!

Read what these words really mean. You are about to become thoroughly acquainted with the concepts they represent. I lifted the definitions from Webster's Online dictionary. Yes, I know, I've got the verb in the first case, the noun in the second, but I'm sure you will get my point.


trail

10 entries found for trail.
Main Entry: 1trail http://www.m-w.com/images/audio.gif (http://javascript<b></b>:popWin('/cgi-bin/audio.pl?trail001.wav=trail'))
Pronunciation: 'trA(&)l
Function: verb
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French trailler to tow, from (assumed) Vulgar Latin tragulare, from Latin tragula sledge, dragnet; akin to Latin trahere to pull
intransitive senses
1 a : to hang down so as to drag along or sweep the ground b : to extend over a surface in a loose or straggling manner <a vine that trails over the ground> c : to grow to such length as to droop over toward the ground <trailing branches of a weeping birch>
2 a : to walk or proceed draggingly, heavily, or wearily : PLOD (http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/plod), TRUDGE (http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/trudge) b : to lag behind : do poorly in relation to others
3 : to move, flow, or extend slowly in thin streams <smoke trailing from chimneys>
4 a : to extend in an erratic or uneven course or line : STRAGGLE (http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/straggle) b : DWINDLE (http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/dwindle) <voice trailing off>
5 : to follow a trail : track game
transitive senses
1 a : to draw or drag loosely along a surface : allow to sweep the ground b : HAUL (http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/haul), TOW (http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/tow)
2 a : to drag (as a limb or the body) heavily or wearily b : to carry or bring along as an addition, burden, or encumbrance c : to draw along in one's wake
3 a : to follow upon the scent or trace of : TRACK (http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/track) b : to follow in the footsteps of : PURSUE (http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/pursue) c : to follow along behind d : to lag behind (as a competitor)
synonym see CHASE (http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/chase) or trial.

trial

16 entries found found for trial.
Main Entry: 1tri·al http://www.m-w.com/images/audio.gif (http://javascript<b></b>:popWin('/cgi-bin/audio.pl?trial001.wav=trial'))
Pronunciation: 'trI(-&)l
Function: noun
Etymology: Anglo-French, from trier to try
1 a : the action or process of trying or putting to the proof : TEST (http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/test) b : a preliminary contest (as in a sport)
2 : the formal examination before a competent tribunal of the matter in issue in a civil or criminal cause in order to determine such issue
3 : a test of faith, patience, or stamina through subjection to suffering or temptation; broadly : a source of vexation or annoyance
4 a : a tryout or experiment to test quality, value, or usefulness b : one of a number of repetitions of an experiment
5 : ATTEMPT (http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/attempt)


People think the Appalachian Trail is a path in the woods and wouldn't it be nice to hike the trail? Maybe they just remember or heard what's pleasant and forgot or never learned the rest of the story. Before they know it, they buy and read books that of course were meant to sell, they buy 1000s of dollars worth of equipment, quit their jobs, get their hopes up and descend upon Springer Mountain in hordes only to find out it's not what they expected. What were they expecting?

I think a modification of the National Scenic Trails Act is in order. What do you think? We just ought to call it the Appalachian Trial. Then everyone would understand.;):D

[neighbor dave]

:-?it rained out:-?

[OhioNative]

I agree; while a surprising amount of people quit at Neels, and to a lesser extent Suches, no way is it 1 out of every 5 hikers.

The figures that I read were from a Georgia Hiking book by Johnny Molloy, which stated that 20% stop after 30 miles, 50% after 160 miles, and 60% after 1000 miles. He doesn't cite the source where he got the figures.

[weary]

I have no statistics -- other than that two of the 10 people I met on Springer quit right there.

But I believe that those most apt to get to Harpers Ferry are those who arrive at Springer with an interest in the natural environment of the trail. I don't remember being bored. I was constantly seeing birds, insects, plants and flowers I couldn't identify, and taking notes in case I came across an identification book at the next town.

The early quitters were just bored, or had totally inadequate gear. Later on injuries played a major role. After a while people began to run out of time, and money.

Despite the White Blaze chatter about how easy the AT is, it's a more difficult experience than most realized. Most everyone I met in Georgia seemed surprised at the unexpected difficulty and the enormity of the venture.

Weary

[The Weasel]

Which is a fancy way of saying... it gets boring. ;) (I'm not disagreeing with the content of Weasel's post, BTW.)

Sorta, Terrapin, but I think I've seen something in even week long hikes with others: It's not that it's boring, but that it's "not what I expected it to be" in the sense that a lot of people expect either adventure, or large amounts of wildlife, or kumbaya around the campfire, or even some kind of deep emotional impact each day, and those things generally don't happen. And when they don't, they don't see what IS occurring, and they miss the impact and value of that. PUDS are interesting if you start to think about them, and so are the rest of the things that happen. People that have an affinity for mediation, or Zen, or "becoming one with their environment" or whatever you want to call it find that it's not boring: Soothing, gentling, humbling. But a lot of people don't "expect" that and don't know how valuable it can be.

TW

[Jack Tarlin]

Ohio:

The 60% attrition rate by Harpers Ferry may in fact be about right, but I'd disagree with Molloy's other figures, especially the 50% drop out by 160 miles, i.e. Fontana Dam. I think 50% attrition by Damascus VA is more like it.

[rafe]

The early quitters were just bored, or had totally inadequate gear. Later on injuries played a major role. After a while people began to run out of time, and money.

Then there are the late-quitters who finally got fed up with the boredom and drudgery parts.


Despite the White Blaze chatter about how easy the AT is, it's a more difficult experience than most realized. Most everyone I met in Georgia seemed surprised at the unexpected difficulty and the enormity of the venture.I had so much adrenaline in me that I never noticed how hard Georgia was. As for the "enormity of the venture" (good point, BTW) that's something that sort of dawns on you slowly as the days wear on and the adrenaline rush wears off. For Bryson and Katz, it came down like a ton of bricks, seeing that map of the AT in Gatlinburg.

[OhioNative]

Despite the White Blaze chatter about how easy the AT is, it's a more difficult experience than most realized. Most everyone I met in Georgia seemed surprised at the unexpected difficulty and the enormity of the venture.

I did meet a day hiker coming up from Neels Gap to Blood Mountain whosaid he thought that the trail was paved - not sure if he was pulling my leg, but he did seem clueless enough to be serious. I wonder how many people think that the trail is wide and flat (not necessarily paved), like your local MetroParks trail or something?

[Pedaling Fool]

I did meet a day hiker coming up from Neels Gap to Blood Mountain whosaid he thought that the trail was paved - not sure if he was pulling my leg, but he did seem clueless enough to be serious. I wonder how many people think that the trail is wide and flat (not necessarily paved), like your local MetroParks trail or something?
Something I've noticed, the trail seems to be in really good shape (easy to hike shape) near roads with parking. I think some people that see these sections get an erroneous impression of the AT.

[camojack]

I read a surprising statistic that 20% of thru-hikers drop out after only 30 miles. What do you think went wrong for these hikers - lack of planning? inexperience (e.g college kids not realizing what they were in for)? Other unforseen factors?
If they drop out after only 30 miles, they ain't exactly thru-hikers, are they? :confused:

[Almost There]

Georgia ain't that bad, but if you are from somewhere there aren't mountains, or have never hiked mountains before, then it could be daunting. Living down here, I have seen many a thru hiker who has never hiked mountains before, usually you can spot them before Neel's because they're carrying too much stuff and they look like they're dying as they get to the top of each climb. I've seen alot of them. So who gets off and who stays...those that have the mental fortitude that says they can't give up, too much invested. Those that get off decide that it's not for them, too hard, and not what they thought. On top of this perhaps when they talk to family back home, someone tells them to just come home...and they do.

Personally, there are climbs in NC/TN and VA that seem to go on forever compared to GA. Thru's don't always notice this as they have already been hiking quite a bit of mileage by the time they get to those climbs. However, sectioners/weekenders, etc. know it very well, as we almost never start up in trail shape.

[shelterbuilder]

I did meet a day hiker coming up from Neels Gap to Blood Mountain whosaid he thought that the trail was paved - not sure if he was pulling my leg, but he did seem clueless enough to be serious. I wonder how many people think that the trail is wide and flat (not necessarily paved), like your local MetroParks trail or something?

I think that this is a common misconception throughout the non-hiker community. My wife used to think that the AT was "like...some kind of woods road or something" - a mistake that almost cost me a new wife some 33 years ago, when SHE decided that I wanted her to come along on a weekend trip! :eek: :D

[Pedaling Fool]

Georgia ain't that bad, but if you are from somewhere there aren't mountains, or have never hiked mountains before, then it could be daunting. Living down here, I have seen many a thru hiker who has never hiked mountains before, usually you can spot them before Neel's because they're carrying too much stuff and they look like they're dying as they get to the top of each climb....
That was me in 2006, I about died in Georgia, but in 2007 it wasn't that big of a deal. And NC is tougher, at least the first part. And Virginia has too many rocks, it's the Pennslyvania of the south.

[Marta]

I dare say, failures of this sort are rare for SOBO starters. You kinda need to know your stuff somewhat, when you start from Katahdin.

I don't know about that. I don't have any figures, but of the six SOBOs I know of who started the same day I did, one dropped out partway up Katahdin because of fear and other head issues (do you even count someone who doesn't make it to the starting line?), and one dropped out at White House Landing with a knee injury. The other four of us made it all the way to Springer. I was the slowest and made the biggest ordeal out of the hike. I was also by far the oldest, and the only female who made it to the starting line.

I can't say how representative a sample we were, though.

[OhioNative]

Ohio:

The 60% attrition rate by Harpers Ferry may in fact be about right, but I'd disagree with Molloy's other figures, especially the 50% drop out by 160 miles, i.e. Fontana Dam. I think 50% attrition by Damascus VA is more like it.

Yeah, the 20% statistic seemed high to me, hence, the motivation for this post. If that figure was accurate, I was very surprised that with all of the planning that has to go into a thru-hike, the number dropping out after such a short distance would be so high.

[rafe]

Something I've noticed, the trail seems to be in really good shape (easy to hike shape) near roads with parking. I think some people that see these sections get an erroneous impression of the AT.

Most of the mountains on the AT are shaped such that the slope is mellow at the bottom and top, and steepest in the middle of the climb. You could drive a Buick up the blue-blaze from Pinkham Lodge to the lean-tos at Tuckermans.

[Pedaling Fool]

Most of the mountains on the AT are shaped such that the slope is mellow at the bottom and top, and steepest in the middle of the climb. You could drive a Buick up the blue-blaze from Pinkham Lodge to the lean-tos at Tuckermans.
I agree, I didn't mean to insinuate that the ATC has conspired with all the trail clubs to give a false impression to the non-hiking community in order to suck them in. Would be a good plan though.

[rafe]

Marta, my point was primarily related to the lack of town access between Abol Bridge and Monson. NOBOs have more opportunities for support and for bailing. The hiker who bailed on the way up K would be in the same class as one who bails between Springer and Neels, IMO.

[Lone Wolf]

fantasy and reality are different

[Kirby]

Most of the mountains on the AT are shaped such that the slope is mellow at the bottom and top, and steepest in the middle of the climb. You could drive a Buick up the blue-blaze from Pinkham Lodge to the lean-tos at Tuckermans.

The trail up the base of Tuckerman's is quite "easy", in contrast with the upper tier of the trail(going up the ravine itself).

I would think there is some sort of physical advantage to those who start with states that have mountains with trails that don't believe in switchbacks (IE:Maine, NH, those are the only two I can speak for).

I know I get a glee of excitement when I discover any sort of switchback on a trail in Maine or NH.

I have never hiked Georgia, so I cannot make a reasonable statement on why hikers drop out so early.

Kirby

[Marta]

Marta, my point was primarily related to the lack of town access between Abol Bridge and Monson. NOBOs have more opportunities for support and for bailing. The hiker who bailed on the way up K would be in the same class as one who bails between Springer and Neels, IMO.

Agreed. In fact, I think she had done that the previous year.

[OhioNative]

I agree, I didn't mean to insinuate that the ATC has conspired with all the trail clubs to give a false impression to the non-hiking community in order to suck them in. Would be a good plan though.

Your post gave me a funny mental image of overweight zombies with iphones and PSP's hypnotically being "sucked in" drawn up the trail!!! :D Maybe it's the fact that I am just getting over the flu and a 104 degree temperature. I was so sick yesterday that I actually stopped obsessing about backpacking for a few hours. I knew I was feeling better when I started thinking about how to talk my wife into letting me get a Lunar Solo. ;)

[rafe]

I would think there is some sort of physical advantage to those who start with states that have mountains with trails that don't believe in switchbacks (IE:Maine, NH, those are the only two I can speak for).


There's that, but there's a disadvantage also. I had 15 years experience hiking thru the Whites before my attempted thru. The problem is that the southern three-quarters of the AT are not nearly as exciting or visually appealing, IMO. You just don't get those spruce-fir boreal forests down south, except maybe in the Smokies.

[Brushy Sage]

I witnessed two people getting off the trail in the first few days. One said his knees were hurting. The other said he was homesick.

[Lone Wolf]

I read a surprising statistic that 20% of thru-hikers drop out after only 30 miles. What do you think went wrong for these hikers - lack of planning? inexperience (e.g college kids not realizing what they were in for)? Other unforseen factors?

they don't go to georgia to backpack, they go to conquer the AT. they're thinkin about maine the day they start. thru-hikin is dumb

[aaroniguana]

a mistake that almost cost me a new wife some 33 years ago, when SHE decided that I wanted her to come along on a weekend trip! :eek: :D

Now why didn't I think of that? Would have saved me a few hundred thousand dollars...

[aaroniguana]

they don't go to georgia to backpack, they go to conquer the AT. they're thinkin about maine the day they start. thru-hikin is dumb

So yer sayin' keep your eyes on today and let the end of the trail just appear?

You're a lot deeper than I gave you credit for...

[Kirby]

So yer sayin' keep your eyes on today and let the end of the trail just appear?

You're a lot deeper than I gave you credit for...

As Walkinhome put it at has thru hike presentation last month:
"Don't think about Katahdin on Springer, get that out of your head as quickly as possible, because if you do think about, you will feel like you have just been squashed like a bug".

Or something along those lines, and then L.Wolf said:
"Don't even think about Katahdin until you can see the damn thing".

I stand with both of these statements.

Kirby

[map man]

A lot of folks setting out on a long thru-hike are in love with the IDEA of a long thru-hike.

I've read a number of trail journals in which the pre-hike entries are full of talk of buying gear and communicating with other hikers about to do the same thing, but little or no talk about doing any shake-down backpacking trips before going to the trail. You also hear complaints about the resistance of family and friends -- sometimes you hear about these family or friends advising the hiker that they really ought to get more backpacking experience before setting out. Often this advice is dismissed -- the journalist says they "just don't get it." Some of these hikers even seem to believe that it will cheapen their AT experience if they have too much backpacking under their belt beforehand.

Folks with this attitude are prime candidates to come home pretty early -- but of course there are those pesky exceptions:D.

[rafe]

A lot of folks setting out on a long thru-hike are in love with the IDEA of a long thru-hike.

Great post, map man. Plus I like this one from Lone Wolf that Kirby quoted:


"Don't even think about Katahdin until you can see the damn thing".

[Pedaling Fool]

As Walkinhome put it at has thru hike presentation last month:
"Don't think about Katahdin on Springer, get that out of your head as quickly as possible, because if you do think about, you will feel like you have just been squashed like a bug".

Or something along those lines, and then L.Wolf said:
"Don't even think about Katahdin until you can see the damn thing".

I stand with both of these statements.

Kirby
Sort of like when Bill Bryson walked into that outfitter in Gatlinburg and looked at that 4 ft long map of the AT and saw they had only did ~3 inches.

[Kaptain Kangaroo]

Everyone is different........ for me, Katahdin was a motivator right from day 1. The mental image of touching that sign kept me going on the tough days, even way back in NC & TN.

Know yourself well enough to understand what will motivate you to put on stiff, 5 day old socks, cold, wet, dirty, smelly clothes & head back out into the rain for yet another day of slogging up hills through the mud & bugs. Understand this & you have a chance :-)

Cheers,

Kaptain Kangaroo

[BR360]

Find it difficult to identify anyone as a "thru-hiker" until they have at least got beyond the "freshman" and "sophomore" phases.

Freshman = wide-eyed newbies in love with the idea of thru-hiking and all its Bucolic bliss, but no real knowledge of the skill, hard-work, discipline, or fortitude to be successful.

Sophomore = Self-proclaimed experts that don't really know squat, and are not for lack of bravado or optimism. These people get their identity from being a "Thru-Hiker" or owning "real thru-hiking gear." Despite the fact that they've never completed even half the trail yet, they will tell others how it's supposed to be.

Once someone is at Harper's Ferry (or completed another long trail of similar difficulty, i.e. CDT, PCT), I'd begin to believe they have the skill and the mental character to complete their hike, whether they do or not. I'd label them as a "thru-hiker" in that they are not just sectioning, but have the heart and the know-how to hike "through to completion."

There is that pesky little platitude that "no one is a thru-hiker, until they have done the whole AT." Anything else is just sectioning of one length or another.

[OhioNative]

I just found a chart at AppalachianTrail.org that has the thru-hiker statistics from the past several years. The numbers vary, but the difference in thru-hikers from start to Neels Gap varied between 10 and 20% (2007 was about 10%).

[clured]

they're thinkin about maine the day they start.

I don't think this is just "college kids." I think it would be foolish to think that anything less than about 95% of hikers are thinking about Maine on the day they start.

[Smile]

GA well into NC is not an easy hike. Add the unnecessary approach trail, eagerness and excitement to get out there and hike, too many miles at first = more blisters and pain than necessary, and that's a recipe to discourage anyone.

IMHO if most people would stick it out, give it a few weeks and take their time, the numbers would be better for those not dropping out so soon :)

[Blissful]

I read a surprising statistic that 20% of thru-hikers drop out after only 30 miles. What do you think went wrong for these hikers - lack of planning? inexperience (e.g college kids not realizing what they were in for)? Other unforseen factors?


Honestly when I first heard about this last year before striking it out on the AT, I thought - what wimps! Quit on Springer (after the Approach) or after a few days? Then I hiked it. The first few days to Neels Gap is tough. There are some tough climbs. Everything hurts. Muscles. Blisters. Pack is too heavy. Gear has already broken or not working right. If the weather is lousy, it doesn't help (we had good weather though). After doing it, I could definitely see why people dropped out by Neels Gap. Some think it's kind of glamorous and cool, but then you find out it's hard work and the fun can sometimes be short lived. You get down to the dirty business of this trek with the mental aspects, and it comes sooner than you think.

[GGS2]

Honestly when I first heard about this last year before striking it out on the AT, I thought - what wimps! Quit on Springer

I know the Springer Approach Trail would be a bit testy for me, first day out. Nothing after a bit of training, but now...

[shelterbuilder]

[quote=Blissful;522399... Some think it's kind of glamorous and cool, but then you find out it's hard work and the fun can sometimes be short lived. You get down to the dirty business of this trek with the mental aspects, and it comes sooner than you think.[/quote]

I have to wonder, too, how many "early quits" are fostered by today's "instant gratification" society? There are lots of folks out there who honestly believe that "I can have anything I want...right now". And with some things, it just ain't so.

[Blissful]

I know the Springer Approach Trail would be a bit testy for me, first day out. Nothing after a bit of training, but now...


I was not going to do the Approach trail actually, but some faithful WBers convinced me otherwise. :)
And glad I did or we would not have met our buds Flint and Dr B the first day. But it was still tough. And Springer shelter area was like tenting in a hurricane. and my glasses broke. And my pack hurt. And I had blisters and other muscle pain. And Maine might as well have been the planet Pluto. I actually thought hiking to Maine was a joke while I was out there the first few weeks.

That was then.

This is now.

Yippee! :banana

[Appalachian Tater]

The Approach Trail is 8 miles compared to 2,175. If hiking it is the factor that causes someone to end a thru-hike, they wouldn't have made it anyway.

I also think the 20% figure is way too high.

[kayak karl]

im confused? buy gear, test gear. hike with gear. train up and down hills. workout for 3 months , then quit? did they expect a walk in the park?:-?

[Peaks]

If they drop out after only 30 miles, they ain't exactly thru-hikers, are they? :confused:

Well, when the drop out, they are through hiking :)

[rafe]

I think it would be foolish to think that anything less than about 95% of hikers are thinking about Maine on the day they start.

I agree there. I mean, if you're going to go to the trouble of starting, you'd at least have some confidence of finishing. The smart ones know that Katahdin is a long way off, and they have some idea of the historical/statistical odds. But I'd guess that the vast majority, at the start, expect that they will beat the odds.

[Almost There]

Find it difficult to identify anyone as a "thru-hiker" until they have at least got beyond the "freshman" and "sophomore" phases.

Freshman = wide-eyed newbies in love with the idea of thru-hiking and all its Bucolic bliss, but no real knowledge of the skill, hard-work, discipline, or fortitude to be successful.

Sophomore = Self-proclaimed experts that don't really know squat, and are not for lack of bravado or optimism. These people get their identity from being a "Thru-Hiker" or owning "real thru-hiking gear." Despite the fact that they've never completed even half the trail yet, they will tell others how it's supposed to be.

Once someone is at Harper's Ferry (or completed another long trail of similar difficulty, i.e. CDT, PCT), I'd begin to believe they have the skill and the mental character to complete their hike, whether they do or not. I'd label them as a "thru-hiker" in that they are not just sectioning, but have the heart and the know-how to hike "through to completion."

There is that pesky little platitude that "no one is a thru-hiker, until they have done the whole AT." Anything else is just sectioning of one length or another.

Yeah, because after all...300, 400, 500 miles isn't enough mileage hiked...gimme a break. I would say someone who has hiked any of these distances has a good idea of what they are about to undertake, and probably knows by then if they have the mental fortitude to complete the trail in one hike.

The real question is, "Are you a Backpacker or are you a Pack Sniffer???:D"

[Kirby]

im confused? buy gear, test gear. hike with gear. train up and down hills. workout for 3 months , then quit? did they expect a walk in the park?:-?

No, they expected a "Walk In The Woods":D.

Kirby

[Marta]

im confused? buy gear, test gear. hike with gear. train up and down hills. workout for 3 months , then quit? did they expect a walk in the park?:-?


They expected a Spiritual Experience. Or maybe they expected an Adventure.

But they didn't expect either of these things to occur on the far side of pain and boredom.

As far as our culture of instant gratification breeding the high dropout rate... I don't have figures on how the dropout rate has changed over time, but at the '06 Gathering, Gene Espy talked about his thru-hike. He started with a partner. His friend complained that his feet hurt, and that his pack was too heavy. So he went home. On Gene's second day, however, things started to improve.

[emerald]

So yer sayin' keep your eyes on today and let the end of the trail just appear?

It will come to you in due time if you keep moving toward it.:-?:)

[Survivor Dave]

Yeah, because after all...300, 400, 500 miles isn't enough mileage hiked...gimme a break. I would say someone who has hiked any of these distances has a good idea of what they are about to undertake, and probably knows by then if they have the mental fortitude to complete the trail in one hike.

The real question is, "Are you a Backpacker or are you a Pack Sniffer???:D"
I have to agree with you AT. I think that most folks that start out pretty much know what they are getting into. I think the Trail in itself gives the fortitude to bring out the best in each INDIVIDUAL hiker. The first 30 NB miles are pretty tough if you have never been out or only backpacked for a short time in more favorable conditions like the local park or gym.

I have hiked a lot of Georgia to get ready for a Thru this season, and it still whips my ass in some parts.

In my opinion, I think perspective Thru-Hiker wannabes need to go out for a few 4-5 day excursions, and in all kinds of weather to see if this is what they want to put the effort into.

SD

[Bearpaw]

im confused? buy gear, test gear. hike with gear. train up and down hills. workout for 3 months , then quit? did they expect a walk in the park?:-?

To think that even 20% of prospective thru-hikers train for 3 months, or that more than half really carefully test their gear before starting is probably a stretch.

[GGS2]

im confused? buy gear, test gear. hike with gear. train up and down hills. workout for 3 months , then quit? did they expect a walk in the park?:-?

I think the problem is that your list is not their list. They maybe do buy gear and then skip the rest. I think maybe they do expect a walk in the park, just like the title of the book. So they get all the aches and equipment malfunctions right there on the approach trail, or down the main trail a few miles. Then it rains, gets cold, the trail gets muddy, they're into the tunnel, and they don't see anything but leaves and a bunch of fitter people racing by, and the shelters are zoos, and there are these mice! and it's so long, and so hard, and going downhill hurts their legs and toes, and going uphill hurts everywhere, and that burning sensation is now a watery mess of raw tissue, and their feet look terrible, and noone told them it was going to be like this. And if they survive that, it gets hot, and they run out of water, and their stoves don't work, and there are bugs everywhere, oh my God, Wherefore art Thou?

Now, see, I know all this beforehand, so it doesn't bother me much. Plus I can take a few elementary precautions, and I do see stuff. Even in the rhodo tunnel, there are things I want to see. And I won't go in the high season, if I can help it, and I won't stay at shelters. I will take my time and enjoy just being there. I will probably wish I had more than six months to do it. And if my arthritic joints pain me, I'll stop for a while. If I only get to Harpers Ferry in six months, I'll take it and be glad.

There's a difference. I've seen several mentions of the Zen of trail walking. That's so true. It is a meditation. Anyone who has tried meditation knows that it isn't easy or calm to begin with. It does permit you to just slow down and stop that incessant chatter in the mind. I know many people finish much calmer and clearer than they were when they started. Yes, some just plow straight through, but they miss the best gifts of the trail. If the trail is beating you up, stop throwing yourself at it. You can just live out there. I expect just about anybody can do it, if they will take it at their own pace. But beginners and enthusiasts don't know that. No Zen.

[Bearpaw]

they don't go to georgia to backpack, they go to conquer the AT. they're thinkin about maine the day they start. thru-hikin is dumb

I'm pretty sure I was thinking about the first AYCE buffet on my first day....:-?

[OhioNative]

I'm pretty sure I was thinking about the first AYCE buffet on my first day....:-?

Yeah, the first night of any hike I find myself dreaming about the Golden Corral!

[Almost There]

Nothing prepares you for walking the trail, except walking the trail...doing 4 miles an hour on a treadmill with pack is nothing....on the trail? I wish I could do 4 miles an hour, heck, I'm thrilled when I get up to 3 mils an hour. I've seen marathoners and bikers with legs like jelly after the first day of a section hike in Central VA. That pack can make a difference, that and the ascents and descents.

I don't know if I would say most know what they're getting into, but for those that have done several multi-day excursions should have a pretty good idea, and if they have hiked in rain, snow, etc. even better for them.

But picture the suburbanite from Illinois, never hiked in the rain, never gone up and over mountains. He enjoys the prairie paths and local trails, which are all relatively flat...and he has never really carried anything but a daypack. Now he is about to attempt something completely different. His excitement at the prospect colors his vision of what he is about to do. If he's the type to rise to a challenge then he has a chance, but if he's the type that decides it's hard and hurts, and I don't like that, then when it isn't much easier by day 3, he's done!

[Almost There]

Yeah, the first night of any hike I find myself dreaming about the Golden Corral!


You need to aim higher my friend!!!:D Golden Corral always gives me horrendous gas pains!:eek: Guess I'm a snob, but I think about good pizza, BBQ, or prime rib with loaded potato. Ice Cold Coke is a good thought too!

Maybe that's how we tell the difference, those thinking of food several hours into their first day=real long distance hikers. If you aren't thinking about it that first day, you're still a Newb!!!:banana

[max patch]

The figures that I read were from a Georgia Hiking book by Johnny Molloy, which stated that 20% stop after 30 miles, 50% after 160 miles, and 60% after 1000 miles. He doesn't cite the source where he got the figures.

Yeah, I saw something similar in Backpacking mag maybe 10 years ago or so. Had an 1/8 page map of the AT and the drop out rates for a half dozen or so spots on the trail. They didn't give the source of their numbers, either. Probably cuz they pulled them out of thin air.

[10-K]

This is a great thread....

I'm a section hiker, new to backpacking and probably have less experience than 99% of the hikers who regularly post hear.

Having said that, I've hiked enough of the trail to know that looking at the trail in its entirety is not the way I want to hike it. When my son and I were doing our first section hike we were looking at the map while we were having lunch at a shelter and he said "we have to walk over all these mountains?"... I told him, "no, we just have to walk over this one.".

Thomas

[OhioNative]

Nothing prepares you for walking the trail, except walking the trail...doing 4 miles an hour on a treadmill with pack is nothing....on the trail? I wish I could do 4 miles an hour, heck, I'm thrilled when I get up to 3 mils an hour. I've seen marathoners and bikers with legs like jelly after the first day of a section hike in Central VA. That pack can make a difference, that and the ascents and descents.


What you say is very true. Now, I have not done a thru-hike, but on my weekend excursions, my flabby, pillsbury dough-boy body has outhiked people who technically are in much better shape than I am. In fact, on my last trip, the biggest complainer of the group (e.g. "how much further???") was the person who works out the most among my friends. In contrast, with regard to running, any one of my hiking partners could probably outrun me after a tenth of a mile on a track. But when it comes to hiking, I often set the pace and am the first one to the top of the hill. I'm not sure if it is that my body is better prepared for hiking, or if it is just a motivation factor, due to the fact that I enjoy the experience so much, no matter how hard.

[emerald]

If you can make it to Springer, you can likely make it to Bly Gap, but it will take several days. If you can make it to Bly Gap, you can also likely hang in there long enough to see Fontana Dam.

No one has hiked to Fontana Dam in a day and few have done Georgia in a day. As I told someone last year, Georgia has to be tough to prepare hikers for North Carolina where the climbs are every bit as steep and longer too.

A northbound hike is such that it seems to make sense in that it prepares hikers for what comes next. At least it helps to believe it does.;)

The rewards come as they are earned and become greater as time goes on.:sun

[shelterbuilder]

Yeah, I saw something similar in Backpacking mag maybe 10 years ago or so. Had an 1/8 page map of the AT and the drop out rates for a half dozen or so spots on the trail. They didn't give the source of their numbers, either. Probably cuz they pulled them out of thin air.

I seem to recall hearing these figures as "normal" from the ATC itself, but I may, of course, be mistaken. I recall hearing it several years ago, as well as hearing that, in spite of the actual NUMBERS of thru-hike attempts changing from year to year, the PERCENTAGES remain pretty much constant...FWIW.

[BR360]

Yeah, because after all...300, 400, 500 miles isn't enough mileage hiked...gimme a break. I would say someone who has hiked any of these distances has a good idea of what they are about to undertake, and probably knows by then if they have the mental fortitude to complete the trail in one hike."


Yea, admittedly Harpers Ferry is an arbitrary location to make a definitive statement that someone is fitting of the moniker of "thru-hiker." It's all so individually-based.

I don't really care. I'm underwhelmed with identity politics, including the identity that people derive from being a "section hiker" a "weekender," or a "thru-hiker." These are trivialities. Just do your thing (so long as it doesn't impinge on the rights of others), and don't worry what others think of you.

If one were to care about arguing about it, making the "psychological halfway point" of Harpers Ferry the river Rubicon for "arrival" as a thru-hiker seems reasonably logical, since halfway there is also halfway NOT-there. Do you have to complete the AT to be a thru-hiker? Many possible answers to that one...

(I like Peaks' statement that when you quit hiking, then you are "through hiking." :D That makes us all thru-hikers, no?

[Jack Tarlin]

Actually, the percentage of reported completions has gone up quite a bit in recent years; this mainly attributable to:

*Innovations in gear; people are carrying less weight; they're making better
miles; the miles are coming easier to them; and they're getting hurt less
*Hikers are better informed: They know about more places to stay, shop,
etc., meaning the critical first few weeks on the Trail are a lot easier for
folks than in years past. The more folks who survive the first few weeks,
the better their chances of completion.
*The proliferation of businesses, especially hostels. People are spending a
lot more nights in town or under a roof and are "roughing it" less. They're
also eating better, i.e. more town food, which is healthier and is also a big
psychological boost.

For all of these reasons, more people are gutting out the first few weeks with less stress, less wear and tear, and are better mentally. It only makes sense that completion rates will go up as a result.

[maxNcathy]

Maybe they just want to walk enough to write a book: Ten Easy Steps to Hike the AT.

[dessertrat]

What you say is very true. Now, I have not done a thru-hike, but on my weekend excursions, my flabby, pillsbury dough-boy body has outhiked people who technically are in much better shape than I am. In fact, on my last trip, the biggest complainer of the group (e.g. "how much further???") was the person who works out the most among my friends. In contrast, with regard to running, any one of my hiking partners could probably outrun me after a tenth of a mile on a track. But when it comes to hiking, I often set the pace and am the first one to the top of the hill. I'm not sure if it is that my body is better prepared for hiking, or if it is just a motivation factor, due to the fact that I enjoy the experience so much, no matter how hard.

It's probably genetics, muscle, and attitude, a combination of those factors. Some people have different strengths and weaknesses, is all.

[JAK]

I'm thinking of starting SOBO this year and dropping out, but I'd like to do 100. :)

[Programbo]

I think most of them had some distorted view of what long distance hiking was all about and the reality of it didn`t match their fantasies

[Boudin]

I'm going to disagree with alot of what is being said about quitting in the first thirty miles. I live in Blairsville and I am on the trail frequently during thru-hiker season. While it is true that the trail is not what most expected, I have only talked to a few that went home in the first 30 because of that. It has been my experience that the ones that quit in the first 30 have quit due to do injury. Many leave by Woody Gap or Neels Gap because their knees can't handle it. Remember, they are out of shape and carrying too much weight. I have also seen them go home from infected blisters.

Can you imagine quitting your job and telling everyone you will be gone for 5 or 6 months, then go home after less than a long weekend. Ego keeps people on the trail for more than 30 miles. I must admit though that I have seen two over the years that hiked the approach from Amacalola then the next morning hike .9 to FS42 and try to get a ride out. But the overwhelming majority that I have seen go home because of bad knees.

[JAK]

I wonder if some quit because of the crowds, not because of the trail.

[Bearpaw]

I'm thinking of starting SOBO this year and dropping out, but I'd like to do 100. :)

You'll have to go 115 miles man, or you'll just DIE in the wilderness dude ;).

Like, get a guidebook or something, ya' know?! :D Just be sure you pick the right guidebook out of the three, or you're toast, dog. :confused:

And you better go UL or you're bear chow man. :eek:

Wait a minute, no, no, if you GO UL you're gonna be bear chow, yeah, that's it. :-?

And if you know what's good for you, you'll just drop out by 15 miles at Abol Bridge, because, ya' know, the AT is hard and stuff. :banana

Just be sure to make like Les Stroud instead of Bear Grylls if you get in a fix or you're gonna totally be worm poop, mi amigo. :p

Ok, I'll just go back to drinking large quantities of fermented beverage while I watch the Stupor Bowl now that I've had flashbacks to all the major threads of contention in the last 24 hours. http://www.appalachiantrailservices.com/pics/smilies/cheers2.gif

[OhioNative]

Can you imagine quitting your job and telling everyone you will be gone for 5 or 6 months, then go home after less than a long weekend. Ego keeps people on the trail for more than 30 miles. I must admit though that I have seen two over the years that hiked the approach from Amacalola then the next morning hike .9 to FS42 and try to get a ride out. But the overwhelming majority that I have seen go home because of bad knees.

That makes alot of sense. If your knees won't let you go any further, you're not going anywhere, ego or not!!!

[Footslogger]

Every year is different ...and I personally have NO idea how many (or what the percentage was) of the hikers who started in 2003 quit after 30 miles. But, I lost count of the number of hikers who told me that they couldn't handle the weather - - rain, actually.

Ironically, it wasn't the hiking difficulty or lack of proper equipment or clothing ...it was the inability to deal with being miserable that drove many off the trail, if not at the 30 mile point, soon after.

'Slogger

[JAK]

I was only carrying one significant digit. ;)

Seriously though, isn't it like paratrooping? Once you fall so far you can jump the rest of the way, or was it jump so far and fall the rest? Anyhow I'll like hike the 100, then sprint the last 15 like a Wild Cowboy. :banana

Anyhow, I would like to do it the traditional way without a guidebook,
but with a native american to guide me on my journey. I'm not too particular about how native, but I'm thinking very female. I will make my own maps. Very detailed. When I'm finished with her I might make a rough map of the trail also. :banana:banana:banana

[JAK]

More properly, and likely, I should have said when she is finished with me.

[Bearpaw]

More properly, and likely, I should have said when she is finished with me.

JAK, you are SO going to hell! Enjoy the trip!! :banana

[weary]

That makes alot of sense. If your knees won't let you go any further, you're not going anywhere, ego or not!!!
I doubt if it's knees for early drop outs. For many it is simply too, too much weight. A cousin, with a history of auto camping and a few trails, attempted the trail in the 80s with a 15-year-old son. She never got to Neels Gap. The family loaded them down with 100+ pounds of crap. She has never totally recovered from the 15 mile strain before exiting.

Somewhere, hidden in an attic, is 180 days worth of freeze-dried food for two.

Weary

[rafe]

I wonder if some quit because of the crowds, not because of the trail.

It's a factor, for sure.

[doggiebag]

JAK, you are SO going to hell! Enjoy the trip!! :banana
Road trips are kewl ... who's driving? :D:D:D

[mweinstone]

my second attempt i quit at neels.a blister that chicken fried my pinky toe. i put my foot in a shoe for the first time 3 weeks later. i should have camped out for a month and helped out with work or volenteering or something. but comming home was a mistake.my 06 attempt ended at perisburg 620 mi from springer due to irs debt. i once quit cause i diddnt have travel money to the trail on day one. i had 27 food boxes, all the gear and no cash. and i once gave up cause i missed my 2 year old son max. ill try again alot. as often as i can.

[Frolicking Dinosaurs]

JAK, you are SO going to hell! Enjoy the trip!! :banana
Road trips are kewl ... who's driving? :D:D:DBeen there, it is way overrated. http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/devil19.gif

[Mountain Man]

I think 20% seems high also. I've wondered if it's the lack of motivation, experience with backpacking or not being physically fit and or injury the reason some drop out so early. But thinking back I've seen hikers year after year that has the motivaton to overcome all kinds of things and continue on up the trail. In 06 I helped encourage 2 different ones to lighten up thier pack and continue on. They had decided to quit and go home after only 5 miles. Not sure if they made it pass Neels Gap but at least they made it to Springer after some encouraging. Some folks made it to Springer only to turn around and go back home. And yes it's a fact that some don't even make it the first mile to the top of the falls at Amicalola. Seen some that really needed to go home but was determined to keep on going. Surely with all the Info. out there and with the lighter gear,more hostels,the sodas,food and rides at a lot of the road crossings surely has to help hikers get further up the trail now days. It has to be easier now than the days of old. "IMO"

[Marta]

I think a lot of people who drop out early use injury as an excuse to do what they want to do anyway--go home. Other hikers, who are just as badly injured, carry on because they don't want to or can't face going home early.

For me, going home early was an incredibly attractive idea, but pride wouldn't let me.

And by the third day I started having a good time.

[Dazzy001]

Done several two month section hikes of the PCT, Most people I have spoken to have no idea what there getting into.... Just what I think happens to people, are they become overwhelmed by the challenge of it all!

Let’s face it going SOBO like I am in 2009, Just studying the maps at the planning stage is enoth to give most armature hikers the willies…….

[fiddlehead]

It's more head than heel!

those who KNOW they're going to make it, do so.

[Mountain Man]

I think a lot of people who drop out early use injury as an excuse to do what they want to do anyway--go home. Other hikers, who are just as badly injured, carry on because they don't want to or can't face going home early.

For me, going home early was an incredibly attractive idea, but pride wouldn't let me.

And by the third day I started having a good time.

Yeah, I agree. My knee went out last year and I went home from Neels because I live fairly close. The Doc said it was tendonitus and gave me some Meds and to me to stay off of it a week and start back slow. So thats what I did. It could have been easy to quit but that was out of the question. One hiker last year messed up I believe his knee before Plumorchard Gap and man it looked shore nuff bad and continued on to I believe Erwin before he went to the Doctor. Now he was "Motivated".

[Marta]

I met a NOBO in Vermont who was wearing heavy-duty knee braces--things with metal rods and hinges. His knees went bad on the first or second day, but he really wanted to continue. So he analyzed his problems, made the changes, and carried on hiking.

I suppose there are a few hikers who don't have any physical problems...but there probably aren't all that many.

[stranger]

When people say it wasn't what I expected, I wonder what they expected, mainly because in my experience, there isn't much difference in my hikes from 1994 or 2001, in the US and in NZ, there seems to be a basic formula that you can always count on.

Let's be honest, a trail is a trail, it's dirt, rocks, blazes, shelters, creeks, rain, mud, roots, steep, rarely flat, aren't they all the same other than the views and the people. and perhaps the rock? Every hike I've ever done, in the US and in New Zealand...generally goes something like this:

- The morning you start the clouds start to form overhead
- Once you start walking it's starts to rain lightly, on and off
- Set up camp in the rain late that night
- My water tastes funny
- After a day or so my right knee start to hurt, then blisters
- I love nutri-grain bars
- The shelter (or hut) is full and 6 tents are already set up, keep on walking
- Eating dehydrated pasta and packaged tuna without mayo for 3 days
- Ohhh, here's the sun, dry out the tent, and there is goes
- Man wet hikers stink so much more than dry ones!
- Space in the shelter but everyone snores keeping you up
- Groggy morning and it's raining again, town only 14 miles away!
- Start playing the food game, your pace becomes faster
- Thank god, the road crossing, I'm starving
- Why won't anyone pick me up! Oh here we go, pickup truck!
- Hot shower might be the best thing on earth
- This hamburger is so good I could cry
- I hate doing laundry in nothing but my rain gear, it's hot
- Do we really have to leave town? It's still raining!
- Why do you have to climb leaving every single town!
- Ahhhh, back in the woods, this makes sense again
- These nutri-grain bars are getting bland

This is my experience over the years...this is what to expect as far as I'm concerned. But if you are expecting trail magic, sunshine and bloomed roses all day long...you might want to walk down a trail for a few days before quitting your job and setting yourself up to fail.

We have a saying in union organisation, it's called the 3 P's:

"Preparation, Preparation, Preparation"

I think it's sound advice for anything challenging

[Montego]

I met a NOBO in Vermont who was wearing heavy-duty knee braces--things with metal rods and hinges. His knees went bad on the first or second day, but he really wanted to continue. So he analyzed his problems, made the changes, and carried on hiking.

I suppose there are a few hikers who don't have any physical problems...but there probably aren't all that many.

Well, I don't have any physical problems. I'm a hiker which means I only have mental problems. :D

[rafe]

I suppose there are a few hikers who don't have any physical problems...but there probably aren't all that many.

Odd to be among the lucky minority. ;) Maybe going slow has its advantages, ya think? (Knock wood.)

[Almost There]

You know what, seeing as I am starting at Katahdin on June 10th I can be a statistic. Hear me out,:-? I'll register as a Thru-Hiker and mysteriously drop off around Mt. Washington...when I gotta go home....No one will ever know!:eek: I'll call myself a thruhiker then!!! And then I can talk about when I'm gonna "attempt" it again!:p

You all just gotta agree to keep it quiet!:D

[Downunda]

I had no hiking experience and reckon I was in pretty good shape and not overweight (aged then 56) when I left Springer, however those first days between Springer and Neels Gap were much tougher than I could have imagined.
I didn't quit but I can understand why so many would. Maybe Bill Bryson's book is the reason why so many try and give up so early!

[dessertrat]

I had no hiking experience and reckon I was in pretty good shape and not overweight (aged then 56) when I left Springer, however those first days between Springer and Neels Gap were much tougher than I could have imagined.
I didn't quit but I can understand why so many would. Maybe Bill Bryson's book is the reason why so many try and give up so early!

Except that Bryson describes the same phenomenon in his book-- they give up because it's really hard, I would guess.

[Tennaseevol]

Just curious as to how accurate the "thru-hiker" drop out statistics could possibly be. :-?

I've never seen where thru-hikers "log off" of the trail with the official AT thru-hiker counter guy...:D

I'd be willing to bet that there are a number of folks that set out from Springer for a multi-day trip that don't know what a "thru-hiker" is considered to be and may assume that they are one because they are hiking hiking "thru" to some other destination other than where they started. Not everyone that backpacks on the AT is aware of all the trail terms and the labels folks place on them.

I dunno, just some random thoughts...

How are the statistics actually captured?

[camojack]

fantasy and reality are different
Dude, that's like, freakin' profound. :D


Well, when the[y] drop out, they are through hiking :)
Very good point... :-?

[Singe03]

Ironically, it wasn't the hiking difficulty or lack of proper equipment or clothing ...it was the inability to deal with being miserable that drove many off the trail, if not at the 30 mile point, soon after.

I know we lost ALOT by Hot Springs...

I'm not sure how good the information was, but what I heard further up the trail from outfitters and folks who I think would tend to know whats going on was that we had a lot higher than average drop off before Damascus and a very low dropout rate after that.

More "guesstimates and hunches" than actual data, I admit it but it kind of made sense, March, April and the first part of May weeded a good number of folks out early and those who could tolerate the misery factor to that point were also those most likely to be able to be able to go the distance.

I remember a group of us sitting around in Neel's gap watching the weather channel and seeing the line of red on the radar tracing up the AT well in to Virginia, the meteorologist saying there was no end in sight and two people made the decision to go home right then.

[rafe]

I've never seen where thru-hikers "log off" of the trail with the official AT thru-hiker counter guy...:D

I'm thinking of that Paul Simon tune, 50 Ways To Leave Your Lover. For the AT, any blue-blaze or road crossing will do. It's surprisingly easy.

Folks get all philosophical about "freedom" on the AT. I think that's a crock. In theory, you have no freedom, your path is the White Blaze. OTOH, you do have the freedom to leave.

[Dogwood]

I can't give all the reasons why thru-hikers quit but I can tell U that U can find as many reasons to complete a hike as U can to quit. Finishing a thru-hike is probably mostly mental. The right mental attitude can often overcome: not being optimally physically fit, inexperience, age, medical conditions, being poorly equipped, boredom, not being optimally prepared, lack of money, etc., etc., etc. This may sound like a cliche or overly naive but I've found those that finish a thru-hike believe they will. They find reasons to continue. They find ways to ENJOY their hike, as opposed to entertaining thoughts of how/why they can/should quit, why it's not what they expected, I'm bored. etc., etc., etc. Hey, if a lone blind man can stumble through the woods for nearly 2200 miles and make it from GA to ME what does that say about our reasons to quit. Bill Erwin estimated that he fell some 3000 times on his thru-hike. He had the opportunuty to quit when he fell his first time and when he fell his 2999 time but he didn't!!! In 06 I knew thru-hikers who made it the whole way who were: recently divorced or going thru a divorce, homeless, jobless, recently sold or lost their businesses, quitting heroin on the trail, overcoming serious medical conditions, lacked money, poorly equipped or lacking gear, over the age of 65, recently retired, had families(children and wife), black, white, Asian, Hispanic, extremely wealthy, formally educated(several Phd's), not formally educated(quit in High School), married, single, from other states and countries(I personally met hikers from 29 different countries doing section hikes or hiking the whole way), recently married, etc. They all could have found reasons to quit but they didn't!

Understand this, a 5 month thru-hike is going to take U out of your comfort zone. U are going to be wet, tired, hot, bored, hungry, angry, lonely, etc. when U don't want to be. Just don't dwell on it forever. It's only temporary. If U think challenges aren't going to occur(often on a daily or sometimes hourly basis) U R going to be mighty surprised. Completing a thru-hike is partly about overcoming continual challenges! Before embarking on a thru-hike ask yourself why U R doing this. What are U going to experience, feel, enjoy that first attracted U to the idea of a thru-hike? How might U feel, think, grow, learn if U do this hike? Keep these answers on the forefront of your mind. Understand, upfront, that situations and events are going to occur that U didn't/can't foresee. Know U R going to have to deal constuctively with it if U plan on finishing.

Not that completing a thru-hike is simply about will, toughing it out, or enduring being miserable or bored, it's just that the right mental attitude (right thinking) can often help U overcome the issues that are experienced over the course of a 5 month AT thru-hike.

I also found it beneficial to stay in the moment - to focus on enjoying every day as much as the day that I climbed Mt Katahdin. I later realized this helped in not having a huge let down after completing the hike. I sought to enjoy the journey rather than viewing the journey as simply as starting and finishing pts. ENJOY THE JOURNEY!!!

Just some meanderings of a thru-hiker.

[Cindy from Indy]

When I began educating myself for my upcoming thruhike, I read all these great books by veterans of the trail. I wasn't dumb enough to think it would be easy, but I did believe that if that older lady did it in Keds tennis shoes why couldn't I?

Then, I began getting the AT hiker movies from the library. Most of those show hikers along the trail, at the worst, it's raining. Or they are eating pizza or they are at a peak observing a fantastic view. All looked very dreamy!

But one movie actually shows some folks struggling, suffering, whining and they were truly tested. THAT was the movie I needed to see. I needed to see the parts where you have to climb straight up sheer rocks and then climb straight down sheer rocks........eeeeeeeeeeeeeekk.....Right then and there I questioned myself...."could I do that?" With a 35lb pack, no less!

Once I dealt with that question, I was okay and I moved on.

It seems like most of the movies hint at the hardship, but don't really talk about it or show it on film. Being out of breath, huffing and puffing up a mountain, making dinner in a downpour, erecting a tent in the dark, etc... And, one person's hardship is another person's dream, I know that. But, to a person who wants a true idea of what to expect, there aren't too many movies that truly show the reality of trail-life. (I don't expect Bob Redford's movie will either)

Just my 2cents.:)

[weary]

Except that Bryson describes the same phenomenon in his book-- they give up because it's really hard, I would guess.
Bryson gave up mostly because he found he didn't like the trail or trail hikers, though there is some evidence that he never really intended to hike the whole thing.

Some things I've read suggest he had other commitments during the summer he made his attempt. Basically, I think "A Walk ...." is a humorous book about a mostly imagined hike.

Weary

[Dogwood]

If U think embarking on a thru-hike means avoiding responsibility, committment, and all your problems, are going to somehow, magically disappear U R going to be surprised!

[Jan LiteShoe]

Folks get all philosophical about "freedom" on the AT. I think that's a crock. In theory, you have no freedom, your path is the White Blaze. OTOH, you do have the freedom to leave.

Ha. Now you're sounding like LW.
:sun
There's plenty of freedom Rafe:
- Freedom from your job (which alone is enough to allow some creativity to well up into the vacuum),
- Freedom from your history (in that when many people hike, they try on new ideas, unlikely friendships and perceptions for size; one light-hearted aspect of that being assuming a trail name).
- Freedom from the same-old same-old

to come with but three off the top of my head on a Monday morning, sitting at my desk.

Certainly there is freedom.The trail provides a structure from which to explore new aspects of life and oneself.
:sun

PS One more - the freedom to eat PIZZA with impugnity! :banana

[Peaks]

Yeah, I saw something similar in Backpacking mag maybe 10 years ago or so. Had an 1/8 page map of the AT and the drop out rates for a half dozen or so spots on the trail. They didn't give the source of their numbers, either. Probably cuz they pulled them out of thin air.


Didn't you know: 83% of all statistics are made up on the spot

[Roots]

I have not thru hiked, we section hike. The first time I got on the trail to hike was a dayhike years ago. It was challenging, but fun. The first backpacking trip on the AT I did not understand how in the h*ll people did that for 6 months. Of course after the pure exhaustion and body pains subsided, I couldn't wait to get back out there.

There is nothing to prepare you for the AT-IMO. It is definitely one the most physical demanding things there is to experience. BUT the physical is NOTHING compared to the mental. If you aren't in it mentally, you can forget it. I've found myself in tears wondering if the end was coming, and I have also found myself climbing up Sweetwater out of Stecoah and asking for more. It was all depending on my state of mind.

[Grampie]

Two reasons: #1 Lack of determination #2 It's hard.:-?

[Survivor Dave]

You mean like the statistic that said the Patriots would win it in a laugher over the Giants? LOL Sorry Peaks, it was too good to resist.

We now return you to our regularly scheduled program:D



Didn't you know: 83% of all statistics are made up on the spot

[rafe]

PS One more - the freedom to eat PIZZA with impugnity! :banana

I'll grant you that one. ;) (+20 lbs. since ending this year's section. :eek:)

[Bearpaw]

the freedom to eat PIZZA with impugnity! :banana

mmmmmm.... After years of having to carefully watch everything I ate in the Marine Corps (I'm a big guy and often had to starve myself to stay within weight standards), being able to eat pretty much whatever I wanted was one of the BEST parts of thru-hiking! :D

[weary]

There's one constance. You can always find an excuse to quit. I started in Georgia and arrived on Katahdin six months and three days later. But I'll never be a 2000 miler.

Partly because for the first few hundred miles I didn't realize that the White Blazes were considered sacred, and wandered all over the mountains of Georgia and North Carolina.

Partly because at 64 I wasn't capable of walking fast enough to walk 2,160 miles.

Partly because I was having a great time and saw no need to rush.

And partly, perhaps mostly, because I walked 600 miles north of Harpers Ferry with a 11-year-old grandson, who needed the trail and me, more than I needed a 2000-mile rocker.

Weary

[Jan LiteShoe]

And partly, perhaps mostly, because I walked 600 miles north of Harpers Ferry with a 11-year-old grandson, who needed the trail and me, more than I needed a 2000-mile rocker.

Weary

That is very cool, Weary. I'd known your grandson had joined you, but I didn't know it was for 600 miles. What an incredible experience and memory for him.

[Pedaling Fool]

Just curious as to how accurate the "thru-hiker" drop out statistics could possibly be. :-?

I've never seen where thru-hikers "log off" of the trail with the official AT thru-hiker counter guy...:D

I'd be willing to bet that there are a number of folks that set out from Springer for a multi-day trip that don't know what a "thru-hiker" is considered to be and may assume that they are one because they are hiking hiking "thru" to some other destination other than where they started. Not everyone that backpacks on the AT is aware of all the trail terms and the labels folks place on them.

I dunno, just some random thoughts...

How are the statistics actually captured?
No one really knows how accurate it is, too many people put way too much into these statistics. I'm sure in a general sense they pretty well represent the numbers fairly good, but beyond that it's just a punch of people getting in knots over competing interpretations. There really is no way to get accurate numbers.

[Mountain Man]

No one really knows how accurate it is, too many people put way too much into these statistics. I'm sure in a general sense they pretty well represent the numbers fairly good, but beyond that it's just a punch of people getting in knots over competing interpretations. There really is no way to get accurate numbers.

Yeah, they guess the best they can. They take the numbers from Amicalola State Park. Many Sleeps the caretaker at Springer gets a count there but he's off a couple days a week. When he gets back he gets a count from the register. Then they take a count from Mountain Crossings. It's no doubt Many Sleeps misses some and I know everyone don't sign in at Mountain Crossings but thats about as close as they can get.

[wilconow]

A lot of folks setting out on a long thru-hike are in love with the IDEA of a long thru-hike.

I've read a number of trail journals in which the pre-hike entries are full of talk of buying gear and communicating with other hikers about to do the same thing, but little or no talk about doing any shake-down backpacking trips before going to the trail.

I agree with this.. how someone off takes from Springer without any backpacking experience is beyond me. For the few "good stories" about those brand new to backpacking and do finish, I'd have to think there are tons that would've benefited from a shakedown trip.

Take some of the questions asked on this site from "aspiring thru-hikers".

"Are jeans okay to wear?"
"How many miles can I expect to walk a day?"
"Who offers instructions on the finer points of thru-hiking?"

Sure, all of these questions have appropriate answers, which of course should be given. But, to me, it seems that the best possible advice is to go on a backpacking trip.

[Pedaling Fool]

...punch of people...
My "b" fell down.

[AT-HITMAN2005]

i think you have to be somewhat "crazy" to do it. at least what "normal" people would consider crazy. one thing i did notice was that if someone was dropping off, for the most part they just disappeared. early in the season at least. and later on if you hiked with someone for awhile they would only tell you they were leaving the day they were finished.

one of the people i hiked about 800 miles with never said a word about leaving until we made it to town and their ride was there waiting on them. heard another story about a group of hikers in taking a break in pen-mar park and one their mothers showing up and that person saying,"well this is it, see you guys around".

wow i was all over the place. not sure it makes much sense.:confused:

[Lone Wolf]

i quit in gorham, nh twice. no biggie. i was done

[RadioFreq]

Every year is different ...and I personally have NO idea how many (or what the percentage was) of the hikers who started in 2003 quit after 30 miles. But, I lost count of the number of hikers who told me that they couldn't handle the weather - - rain, actually.

Ironically, it wasn't the hiking difficulty or lack of proper equipment or clothing ...it was the inability to deal with being miserable that drove many off the trail, if not at the 30 mile point, soon after.

'Slogger

I read AWOL's book yesterday (where you were mentioned). I am praying I
don't have to deal with as much rain in '09 as you guys did in '03.

Think :sun.

[Singe03]

I am praying I don't have to deal with as much rain in '09 as you guys did in '03.

We had a lot of beautiful weather in 03 as well, the rain stands out,is what people mostly talk about, and it was indeed miserable sometimes, but placed in the context of the whole trip, I'd say good days far outweighed the bad.

At least none of the water sources were dry :)

[T-Dubs]

At least none of the water sources were dry :)

Always a silver lining....

TWS

[Appalachian Tater]

I agree with this.. how someone off takes from Springer without any backpacking experience is beyond me. For the few "good stories" about those brand new to backpacking and do finish, I'd have to think there are tons that would've benefited from a shakedown trip.

Take some of the questions asked on this site from "aspiring thru-hikers".

"Are jeans okay to wear?"
"How many miles can I expect to walk a day?"
"Who offers instructions on the finer points of thru-hiking?"

Sure, all of these questions have appropriate answers, which of course should be given. But, to me, it seems that the best possible advice is to go on a backpacking trip.

Amicalola to Neels Gap IS the shakedown hike.

[snowhoe]

my cousin Halfpound fell and jacked up his knee. We had to call my uncle who lives in Ashville to come get him at Neels Gap. That was my first zero day. What a cool place to take a zero day. I think it was a little early into the hike though.

[Chaco Taco]

The idea of a thruhike excites me to my core. I know how boring hiking gets sometimes. Im going for it in 09 because I love everything about backpacking, the planning, the ride up, throwing on your pack for the first time in awhile thinking "Uh oh". Its funny because I remeber the first trip I took. I was ill-prepared. I was in Boy scouts and got a hand me down pack with no hip belt. I went up Mt Sterling and about died. I swore I would never do it again. One month later, had the proper gear, proper shoes, went up Mt Rogers and had the time of my life.

I have no doubts that i will make it. I have just over a year left, just need the funds. I guess the only thing that would stop my hike would be money. Over the past year, i have assmebled replacements to all of my gear. I have 2 sometimes 3 of everything.

[Frolicking Dinosaurs]

.....And partly, perhaps mostly, because I walked 600 miles north of Harpers Ferry with a 11-year-old grandson, who needed the trail and me, more than I needed a 2000-mile rocker.:::: Dino seen blinking back tears ::::

[OregonHiker]

i quit in gorham, nh twice. no biggie. i was done

So,

What you are saying is that you choked twice at a thru and now you're telling everybody else that it's just a meaningless stunt?:-?:-?:-?

Poser rader just pegged:sun

[Jack Tarlin]

Um, Oregon, Wolf has somewhere between 15 and 20 thousand miles on the A.T., and maybe more. I doubt he even knows cuz he's not one of those guys who cares enough to write all his trips down.

But calling him a "poser" is a bit of a stretch, and a long one, too.

How many miles YOU got? :D

[Lone Wolf]

So,

What you are saying is that you choked twice at a thru and now you're telling everybody else that it's just a meaningless stunt?:-?:-?:-?

Poser rader just pegged:sun

no, dick. just sayin' quitting is no biggie. anybody can force themselves to finish for the patch. is that what you did?

[Almost There]

So,

What you are saying is that you choked twice at a thru and now you're telling everybody else that it's just a meaningless stunt?:-?:-?:-?

Poser rader just pegged:sun


Yeah Wolf, You're a Pack Sniffin' Fool!!!:eek::banana:banana:banana

[rafe]

no, dick. just sayin' quitting is no biggie. anybody can force themselves to finish for the patch. is that what you did?

Anyone? Ya think?

Agreed, it takes a special kinda person to quit a nobo thru-hike in Gorham... twice.

[Kirby]

So,

What you are saying is that you choked twice at a thru and now you're telling everybody else that it's just a meaningless stunt?:-?:-?:-?

Poser rader just pegged:sun

And if you really must know, I am going to quote him, to the best of my knowledge(Wolf, correct me where I go wrong).

*1 SOBO thru hike
*2 NOBO thru hikes
*2 NOBO GA to Gorham, NH
*5 times Gorham to Katahdin.

That alone is around 15,000 miles.

I shall now leave the soapbox.

Kirby

[OregonHiker]

no, dick. just sayin' quitting is no biggie. anybody can force themselves to finish for the patch. is that what you did?
Too funny...back to the original question?

[OregonHiker]

And if you really must know, I am going to quote him, to the best of my knowledge(Wolf, correct me where I go wrong).

*1 SOBO thru hike
*2 NOBO thru hikes
*2 NOBO GA to Gorham, NH
*5 times Gorham to Katahdin.

That alone is around 15,000 miles.

I shall now leave the soapbox.

Kirby
Quit humping his leg :mad:

He has said he has never made it all the way.

[OregonHiker]

Yeah Wolf, You're a Pack Sniffin' Fool!!!:eek::banana:banana:banana

Pack sniffin a-hole is more like it:mad:

[Lone Wolf]

And if you really must know, I am going to quote him, to the best of my knowledge(Wolf, correct me where I go wrong).

*1 SOBO thru hike
*2 NOBO thru hikes
*2 NOBO GA to Gorham, NH
*5 times Gorham to Katahdin.

That alone is around 15,000 miles.

I shall now leave the soapbox.

Kirby

somethin like that, yes. ignore the oregon trollboy :)

[OregonHiker]

somethin like that, yes. ignore the oregon trollboy :)


Too funny

Round up the clique...there's gonna be a lycnhin':mad:

[Almost There]

Removed


Wow!!!!......:eek:

I'm gonna go make some popcorn!:D

[OregonHiker]

Wow!!!!......:eek:

I'm gonna go make some popcorn!:D

You might make it from GA to ME

[Kirby]

Looks like I'll have to split my time between super Tuesday coverage and this thread.

Kirby

[Almost There]

Kirby, sitting here with my laptop watchin CNN.

[OregonHiker]

Looks like I'll have to split my time between super Tuesday coverage and this thread.

Kirby

I really don't tjink you have the ability to comprehend either

[Kirby]

Kirby, sitting here with my laptop watchin CNN.

I've got the TV going in the next room over, and I can hear it clearly.

Kirby

[Montego]

Wow!!!!......:eek:

I'm gonna go make some popcorn!:D

Share? :D

[envirodiver]

And partly, perhaps mostly, because I walked 600 miles north of Harpers Ferry with a 11-year-old grandson, who needed the trail and me, more than I needed a 2000-mile rocker.

Weary

Very cool.

[Pokey2006]

It's not "quitting" the trail. It's just changing plans. How can any hike, even a short one, be a "failure?"

[Almost There]

Share? :D


Sure...it might be stale by the time it get's to you!!!:D

[Montego]

Gee, thankshttp://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/eatdrink062.gif

[Marta]

It's not "quitting" the trail. It's just changing plans. How can any hike, even a short one, be a "failure?"

I'm not buying. If I take six months off work (or quit), and tell the blue sky and everyone that I'm going to hike the whole AT...and a week later I'm back at work...I would definitely have failed to carry out my plan.

You can argue that the person had unrealistic expectations, and that their plan was faulty, but the word "failure" still applies.

Going home early is definitely quitting. The way I look at it is that hiking the AT is not compulsory, so you're allowed to quit if you want to.

That's why sissies like me use weak words like "try" and "thru-hike attempt." I want more space to manuever.

[rafe]

Going home early is definitely quitting. The way I look at it is that hiking the AT is not compulsory, so you're allowed to quit if you want to.

That's why sissies like me use weak words like "try" and "thru-hike attempt." I want more space to manuever.


I agree, Marta.

[Wanderingson]

scared the spouse would be cheating while they were gone.


Heck ROn,

In the case of my ex-wife, it certainly had nothing to do with the 30 mile rule.:banana

[jersey joe]

Most people have no ideal how soft and spoiled they really are.:eek: When they do find out, they go home.

I agree. This is the biggest reason why people who intend to hike the whole trail quit so early.

[clured]

I'm not buying. If I take six months off work (or quit), and tell the blue sky and everyone that I'm going to hike the whole AT...and a week later I'm back at work...I would definitely have failed to carry out my plan.

You can argue that the person had unrealistic expectations, and that their plan was faulty, but the word "failure" still applies.

Going home early is definitely quitting. The way I look at it is that hiking the AT is not compulsory, so you're allowed to quit if you want to.

That's why sissies like me use weak words like "try" and "thru-hike attempt." I want more space to manuever.

I agree 100%. Maybe I'm just hardheaded but I'm tired of all this sissy nonsense about how hiking can never be a failure. It devalues the accomplishment of people that actually finish.

[Almost There]

I agree 100%. Maybe I'm just hardheaded but I'm tired of all this sissy nonsense about how hiking can never be a failure. It devalues the accomplishment of people that actually finish.

Yeah, but some of us don't hike for accomplishment, we hike for enjoyment. Quit putting societies' values on my hike!

Look, you live your life for you, so therefore you are only a failure if you believe you are a failure.

As for devaluing the accomplishment...well then you are sissy for letting people determine the worth or value of your own personal accomplishments.:-?

[rafe]

I agree 100%. Maybe I'm just hardheaded but I'm tired of all this sissy nonsense about how hiking can never be a failure. It devalues the accomplishment of people that actually finish.

Clured... I agreed with Marta, but I can't quite agree with you. I'm having some trouble putting my unease into words. Something about "sissy nonsense" and "devaluing other people's accomplishments." Yeah, I tried and failed... no doubt about that. Still, your terms are harsh. :-?

[Dogwood]

When people say it wasn't what I expected, I wonder what they expected, mainly because in my experience, there isn't much difference in my hikes from 1994 or 2001, in the US and in NZ, there seems to be a basic formula that you can always count on.

Let's be honest, a trail is a trail, it's dirt, rocks, blazes, shelters, creeks, rain, mud, roots, steep, rarely flat, aren't they all the same other than the views and the people. and perhaps the rock? Every hike I've ever done, in the US and in New Zealand...generally goes something like this:

- The morning you start the clouds start to form overhead
- Once you start walking it's starts to rain lightly, on and off
- Set up camp in the rain late that night
- My water tastes funny
- After a day or so my right knee start to hurt, then blisters
- I love nutri-grain bars
- The shelter (or hut) is full and 6 tents are already set up, keep on walking
- Eating dehydrated pasta and packaged tuna without mayo for 3 days
- Ohhh, here's the sun, dry out the tent, and there is goes
- Man wet hikers stink so much more than dry ones!
- Space in the shelter but everyone snores keeping you up
- Groggy morning and it's raining again, town only 14 miles away!
- Start playing the food game, your pace becomes faster
- Thank god, the road crossing, I'm starving
- Why won't anyone pick me up! Oh here we go, pickup truck!
- Hot shower might be the best thing on earth
- This hamburger is so good I could cry
- I hate doing laundry in nothing but my rain gear, it's hot
- Do we really have to leave town? It's still raining!
- Why do you have to climb leaving every single town!
- Ahhhh, back in the woods, this makes sense again
- These nutri-grain bars are getting bland

This is my experience over the years...this is what to expect as far as I'm concerned. But if you are expecting trail magic, sunshine and bloomed roses all day long...you might want to walk down a trail for a few days before quitting your job and setting yourself up to fail.

We have a saying in union organisation, it's called the 3 P's:

"Preparation, Preparation, Preparation"

I think it's sound advice for anything challenging

LOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOL

[Dogwood]

Say what U mean and mean what U say, let your yes be yes and your no be no.

I may be opening up a lot of debate but kind of reminds when people say they have hiked the ENTIRE trail when in fact they have hiked only 1500 miles or decided to skip Shenendoah because it was boring. Seems some define the words entire, all, or complete differently than I do.

[Appalachian Tater]

I met a lot of people who quit their planned thru-hikes and felt like failures, rightly or not.

[Montego]

I met a lot of people who quit their planned thru-hikes and felt like failures, rightly or not.

Was once told that the Marine Corps NEVER retreats, they just start fighting in a different direction, soooo...............maybe people that stop hiking the AT didn't fail, they just went somewhere else :D

[chezrad]

Hey, no matter how you get there your final destination is still your front door!

I realized that on my second trip across the US on two wheels.

[Lone Wolf]

ain't no hiker trash on this thread

[Dogwood]

If an engineer intends to build a bridge across the Mississippi River and only builds the bridge part way across has he failed? Did he succeed in achieving his original goal? No! In that respect, he has definitely failed. Could he have learned from and enjoyed the experience of building what he did. Sure. Could his goals have somehow change while building the bridge? Sure. Now, enough of this talk about bridges and quitting because there will always be those who define quitting as not really quitting or who are OK with quitting and there will always be those who will finish building the bridge!

[stranger]

Just so we are clear, I never said in my post that I had thru-hiked the AT, I was referring to my experiences in long distance hiking over the past 13 years only.

[clured]

Clured... I agreed with Marta, but I can't quite agree with you. I'm having some trouble putting my unease into words. Something about "sissy nonsense" and "devaluing other people's accomplishments." Yeah, I tried and failed... no doubt about that. Still, your terms are harsh. :-?

I think I should have elaborated. I don't mean to sniff at people who abort thru-hike attempts; I completely understand why people stop. I was ready to be done at Hanover, and everything after that was mostly a blur of discomfort. I think at that point in a thru-hike it becomes a very personal choice of what you are willing to put up with, and there's no right answer; for me, the right answer was to suck it up and truck through the misery because I promised myself to finish no matter what, but for someone else the right answer might be to hang it up.

My only point is that it is reductive and just incorrect to say that both of these choices constitute "success." Sometimes choosing to "succeed" could be the wrong choice if the misery coefficient outweighs the benefits. I'm not judging, just saying that recognizing quitting the trail as "success" devalues all the crap I put up with Maine.

PS, while the last 300 miles of my hike were miserable at the time, I am incredibly glad that I finished. Those 300 miles were the most important experience I've ever had.

[sarbar]

I met a lot of people who quit their planned thru-hikes and felt like failures, rightly or not.
My first long distance hike was The Wonderland Trail. I had no clue what I was getting into - and I had many trips under my belt. But what I didn't realize was how hard doing day after day of up and down was. And yes, I bailed 1/3rd of the way through. My feet were shredded, I had blisters on blisters. But most of all? I had no excitement. I didn't want to be there. In 3, yes, 3, weenie days I had climbed over 11K in elevation. And that was only a small part of what was to come.

But from that flaming failure I learned a lot. And learned how to suck it up mostly. I found I enjoyed going on 3 day or less trips. But that I could do long miles if needed. For me, the up and down daily kills my spirit. I'd rather section hike for the rest of my life than dedicate 6 months at once. I learned to compress a week trip into a couple days - that kind of thing.

Oh yeah, and I learned how to eat and dress right as well :o

Then again, I also figured out that as long as you get out there, life is good. Doesn't matter if you hike one day or 150 days :)

[freefall]

I read a surprising statistic that 20% of thru-hikers drop out after only 30 miles. What do you think went wrong for these hikers - lack of planning? inexperience (e.g college kids not realizing what they were in for)? Other unforseen factors?

There is a romanticism that most hikers ( or potential) attach to the trail. That feeling overrides the sheer struggle that is needed to make it the entire distance, let alone more than 30 miles in some. In `06 I saw a guy just hanging out on the veranda at Mountain Crossings. He had already had his pack looked at and had talked just about every other hiker that had been through there. But he decided that he was done because it was colder than he thought it would be. I didn't think any less of him but I did wonder how cold it would have to get before I thought it was too cold for me.
It wasn't until I incurred a sociable problem (lack of money upon return) several months that I decided to get off Trail. So after 30 miles, I guess it has a lot to do with preparation and expectation.

[Marta]

This is going to be a little hard to explain--

To me, the difference between a successful hike and a failure is whether you can be honest with yourself and others about it.

1) You got off the Trail because you missed your S.O./kids/whatever, and were sick of hiking. Fine.

2) You got off the Trail because you were badly hurt/sick, and were sick of hiking. Fine.

3) You got off the Trail because you discovered to your surprise that hiking is not as romantic as you thought it would be, and you really don't like it much. Fine.

4) You got off the Trail because you made a bunch of misjudgements and bad decisions, and had unrealistic expectations to start with, and you panicked and ran home. Not so fine.

5) You got off the Trail because you couldn't deal with your fears and loneliness...so you took some minor injury and used that as an excuse to quit. Not so fine.

6) You got off the Trail for any reason whatsoever, but go around telling people that you could have finished, if you wanted to. BS--the difference between finishing and not finishing is making yourself keep going. In other words, if your will to keep hiking fails, you can't finish.

The last three people will be lying to themselves and others. They will be haunted by feelings of failure--and rightly so. Things they post on Whiteblaze will cause the BS detectors to go off...and probably bring on a couple of well-deserved, snarky comments from Lone Wolf.

[rickb]

I think its easy to get side tracked by the word "failure". For whatever reason I think most of us attach a whole lot more emotion and personal baggage to that term than we realise.

I think the whole concept is pretty well summed up by the four points I have copied below that an experienced hiker wrote in his book. To my way of thinking, those who push through the hard parts (and for many, hiking the AT might be a job as much as recreation) reap great rewards for their work. Whether you want to call dropping out failure or use some other word, doing what you set out to do on the AT is a beautiful thing.

Anyway, here are the 4 points I borrowed that I thought summed everything up so nicely:


1. walking the ENTIRE Trail in one hiking season is a challenging task

2. many people when they start at Springer or Katahdin hope to complete the ENTIRE Trail in one hiking season;

3. those who finish their journey at the place where they wanted to get to when they first started tend to have a more satisfying Trail experience (i.e.,memories) than those who stop

4. although almost all of the learning is between Springer and Katahdin, the final chapter is more fulfilling when experienced atop those once distant summits.

[superman]

Is this thread about justifying a failed thru hike? It is what it is.

[Bearpaw]

This past summer, I intended to thru-hike the Tahoe Rim Trail and the John Muir Trail. The Tahoe Fire forced me off the TRT after 65 miles. A stress fracture that caused my left ankle to look like a golf ball was growing from under the left ankle forced me off the JMT after 57 miles.

I had some fantastic times on both treks. But I definitely failed to complete both thru-hikes.

I'm just hungrier now, and have a 500 mile corridor hike of the rest of the TRT, the TYT (Tahoe-to-Yosemite-Trail) or PCT, and JMT planned for 2009. Maybe I'll succeed then.

[rafe]

There's something about the American psyche here that deserves mention. We're pretty hard on losers over here. Winner take all. Losers are forgotten. It's black and white, win or lose. No halfway. A recent football game comes to mind.

[superman]

Is this thread about justifying a failed thru hike? It is what it is.

That last post of mine sounded too curt when I re-read it. It is just a hike. It is not the measure of your whole life. It is what you make of it. It's a hell of a hike and requires more than a casual effort.

"If thru-hiking isn't the most important thing in your life at the time
you are doing it, then stop doing it and go do what is." --Wingfoot

[Grampie]

I'm not buying. If I take six months off work (or quit), and tell the blue sky and everyone that I'm going to hike the whole AT...and a week later I'm back at work...I would definitely have failed to carry out my plan.

You can argue that the person had unrealistic expectations, and that their plan was faulty, but the word "failure" still applies.

Going home early is definitely quitting. The way I look at it is that hiking the AT is not compulsory, so you're allowed to quit if you want to.

That's why sissies like me use weak words like "try" and "thru-hike attempt." I want more space to manuever.

Marta... Well spoken...I agree.. Quiting is quiting. There is no justification.

[emerald]

It may be possible some individuals planning to begin hikes in the next few weeks have not heard of The Thruhiking Papers (http://www.spiriteaglehome.com/THP%20top.html) or read them. Now might be an especially good time to read them for the 1st time or review them.

When re-reading this thread tonight, it occurred to me the portion of the linked reference dealing with one's personal contract and re-negotiating it with one's self is an especially relevant concept to understand.

Sometimes plans must be modified. It's important to understand when one's changing one's contract and its implications.

A hike well-hiked is a wonderful thing as it unfolds and years later too.:)

[Marta]

Clured... I agreed with Marta, but I can't quite agree with you. I'm having some trouble putting my unease into words. Something about "sissy nonsense" and "devaluing other people's accomplishments." Yeah, I tried and failed... no doubt about that. Still, your terms are harsh. :-?

The way I would phrase the "devaluing other people's accomplishments" is that there can be an element of sour grapes when people who haven't hiked much, or have started off with big plans and didn't carry them out, are really aggressive about insisting that "I'm just as much of a hiker as you are!"

On one level that is completely true. Everyone who hikes is a hiker.

But on another level, it shows ignorance and a lack of respect for accomplishment. An amateur cellist and YoYo Ma can come together and celebrate themselves and cellists, and enjoy talking cello together. And the amateur may love his cello passionately...but he is flattering himself mightily if he thinks his understanding of the instrument is as broad or deep as YoYo's. That's the respect thing kicking in.

Hiking isn't a competition. Whatever your background, it's great to come together and enjoy talking about hiking. But...I don't flatter myself that I know everything there is to know about it...or that I am equal in hiking knowledge and experience to people who have hiked two, three, five, or ten times further than I have. I respect what they have done.

People who don't/can't respect accomplishment, in whatever field of endeavor...I hope for their sake that they grow up some day.

[Marta]

It may be possible some individuals planning to begin hikes in the next few weeks have not heard of The Thruhiking Papers (http://www.spiriteaglehome.com/THP%20top.html) or read them. Now might be an especially good time to read them for the 1st time or review them.


I especially respect Jim and Ginny. And have rarely found anything in my relatively meager hiking experience to cause me to disagree with them.

[emerald]

There's much wisdom distilled from their extensive experiences to be learned from what they've written by those who could benefit from it.

[rafe]

Hiking isn't a competition.

Amen to that.


Whatever your background, it's great to come together and enjoy talking about hiking.Sometimes I wonder.... :rolleyes:


But...I don't flatter myself that I know everything there is to know about it...or that I am equal in hiking knowledge and experience to people who have hiked two, three, five, or ten times further than I have. I respect what they have done.I don't think you're giving yourself the credit you deserve. How did you learn what you already know? How much is left for you (Marta) to learn? Not much, I suspect.

If you had the time, the inclination, and the wherewithal, I'm sure you could log as many miles as any "hiking god." Any you may yet. Furthermore, there are hikers who've never done a long-distance hike but are 99.9% as knowledgeable about hiking (in all sorts of terrain, conditions, and seasons) as you or Jim or Ginny -- I'm talking about habitual hikers of another sort, eg., peak-baggers in the Whites and the DAKs. (And most likely their west coast and Rocky Mountain equivalents.)

For that matter, there's a certain wisdom possessed by the habitual, lifelong recreational hiker that may be lacking in a thru-hiker who rushes from GA to ME and hangs up his/her boots forever.

Bottom line, I don't really consider hiking to be that much of an "art" (viz., your reference to Yo Yo Ma.) Success at long-distance hiking is more a matter of stubbornness, tenacity and indifference to boredom and discomfort. I suppose it helps when one has a predisposition toward heavy-duty, long-term schlepping out of doors. ;)

[Wolf - 23000]

I read a surprising statistic that 20% of thru-hikers drop out after only 30 miles. What do you think went wrong for these hikers - lack of planning? inexperience (e.g college kids not realizing what they were in for)? Other unforseen factors?

Someone who drops out after 30 miles never really wanted to do the AT. They might have BS everyone into believing they did, maybe themselves, but if they gave up that soon face it ... they never wanted to do it in the first place.

Wolf

[EWS]

Do what you want. If you find something better do it. Just don't quit to do what you were doing before.

[Wolf - 23000]

scared the spouse would be cheating while they were gone.

Well Joed has to have his chance sometime.:D

Wolf

[Marta]

I don't think you're giving yourself the credit you deserve. How did you learn what you already know? How much is left for you (Marta) to learn? Not much, I suspect.

If you had the time, the inclination, and the wherewithal, I'm sure you could log as many miles as any "hiking god." Any you may yet. Furthermore, there are hikers who've never done a long-distance hike but are 99.9% as knowledgeable about hiking (in all sorts of terrain, conditions, and seasons) as you or Jim or Ginny -- I'm talking about habitual hikers of another sort, eg., peak-baggers in the Whites and the DAKs. (And most likely their west coast and Rocky Mountain equivalents.)

For that matter, there's a certain wisdom possessed by the habitual, lifelong recreational hiker that may be lacking in a thru-hiker who rushes from GA to ME and hangs up his/her boots forever.

Bottom line, I don't really consider hiking to be that much of an "art" (viz., your reference to Yo Yo Ma.) Success at long-distance hiking is more a matter of stubbornness, tenacity and indifference to boredom and discomfort. I suppose it helps when one has a predisposition toward heavy-duty, long-term schlepping out of doors. ;)

You had me, but then you lost me.:rolleyes:

I think I have a lot more to learn. If I didn't think that each hike would bring new experiences--and the consequent learning--I'd quit doing it and take up some other activities.

How did I learn what I already know? By making mistakes, and having successes. By doing things besides hiking, that have learning which carries over into hiking.

The "if you had the time..." is the crux of the matter. People who have hiked more than I do MADE the time, money, and opportunity happen for themselves. There is not an element of luck operating there--it was a series of decisions on their parts. I respect that.

I think hiking can be an art...and it bears some resemblance to music in the sheer repetitive nature of the practice.

So, all you manly men out there--you're really artists! :D

[rickb]

There's much wisdom distilled from their extensive experiences to be learned from what they've written by those who could benefit from it.

I agree 100%.

To my way of thinking, that should be "Required Reading" for anyone considering a thru hike. Its just that good.

Most of what is out there (including much of what we all read and write here) gives the RIGHT ANSWERS to the WRONG QUESTIONS.

I hope all prospective AT hikers will check out that link. http://www.spiriteaglehome.com/THP%20top.html

[oso loco]

I haven't been to WB for a long time now - but Ginny pointed this thread out to me, so here I am.

While we appreciate the kind words that have been said here, there are three things that need to be said -

1. In spite of our apparent (and surprising, at least to me) reputation, y'all need to realize that we're still learning. We're NOT "experts" - just experienced. Or as a young lady in Canada put it last year - "seasoned." We learned some new lessons - and tricks - last summer. We'll learn some more this year. We'll likely even survive the experience - although that's not guaranteed.

2. Part of the "experience/seasoning" has been that there's sometimes a time to "quit". There's an old saw about running away in order to live to fight another day. There's a lot of truth to that. We once quit a trail in PA - 16 miles from finishing. We last year left a trail in Arizona - not because the trail was terrible or too hard - or because we were hurt - or because it was too hot or we had blisters or ... whatever.
We left because we learned long ago that there's a spiritual side to hiking - and you ignore it at your peril. If your heart and gut tell you it's time to leave - then it's time to leave. We left because we were in the right place - at the wrong time. We'll go back - when the time is right.

3. This'll irritate some people - but thruhikers are NOT the "top of the food chain." There are those who hike from Tierra del Fuego to Alaska - there's a Brit who's hiking across Russia even as we speak. There are those who will never thruhike - but hike in places like New Zealand and Switzerland and Nepal and --- other places - who have far more varied experience than thruhikers. But I won't push this point right now -

The last part of the Thruhiking Papers might be of interest in this discussion - try :
http://spiriteaglehome.com/Th%20what%20if.html

Y'all have a good day - I'm going for a walk.

[emerald]

I think I have a lot more to learn. If I didn't think that each hike would bring new experiences--and the consequent learning--I'd quit doing it and take up some other activities.

How did I learn what I already know? By making mistakes, and having successes. By doing things besides hiking, that have learning which carries over into hiking.

The "if you had the time..." is the crux of the matter. People who have hiked more than I do MADE the time, money, and opportunity happen for themselves. There is not an element of luck operating there--it was a series of decisions on their parts. I respect that.

Humility and respect for the accomplishments of others are 2 things all who would through hike should possess.

I also see little point in covering ground that's already been traversed. That's not to say I wouldn't do something twice, but rather I must learn something new in the process or it's wasted time.

I find it interesting that as hikers and others age, in many ways they more than offset losses in their physical capabilities with knowledge that transfers from other experiences. It is indeed better to be a smart hiker than a strong hiker.


I think hiking can be an art...and it bears some resemblance to music in the sheer repetitive nature of the practice.

Maybe to some people it's only walking, but I think a hike well hiked like a life well lived should be celebrated by those who value these accomplishments.

[Jaybird62]

I really don't tjink you have the ability to comprehend either
What a dipstick!!!!!!!You are out of hand-Wolf has got you pegged!

[Cowgirl]

I think a lot of armchair hikers get grandios plans of thru-hiking the AT and actually engoy the months & months spent buying geat and planning all the tiny deatails, then get out on the trail and find out it is work.

My idea of not failing is not saying you are going to do one thing and then not doing it. It is better to not say anything. Let your actions be your words.

[Jack Tarlin]

Jim is being over-modest here.

There's stuff in the Thru-hiking Papers that is among the best material I've seen when it comes to talking about the Appalachian Trail.

The Owens' essays should be required reading for anyone planning a long hike on the A.T.

[weary]

Someone who drops out after 30 miles never really wanted to do the AT. They might have BS everyone into believing they did, maybe themselves, but if they gave up that soon face it ... they never wanted to do it in the first place. Wolf
Maybe. But for most, I suspect, they never really had any idea about what a thru hike entails.

[oso loco]

Jim is being over-modest here.

There's stuff in the Thru-hiking Papers that is among the best material I've seen when it comes to talking about the Appalachian Trail.

The Owens' essays should be required reading for anyone planning a long hike on the A.T.

Jack -
I wouldn't argue with you about this - Momma taught me to never start a fight I didin't want to win. :)

All I'm saying is that life is a learning process - and we're still learning. Long ago, someone sent this to me. It has, and will continue, to apply to my life -


Rules for Being Human

1. You will receive a body, you may like it or hate it, but it will be yours for the entire period this time around.

2. You will learn lessons. You are enrolled in a full time, informal school called life". Each day in this school you will have the opportunity to learn lessons. You may like the lessons or think them irrelevant and stupid.

3. There are no mistakes, only lessons. Growth is a process of trial and error and experimentation. The "failed" experiments are as much a part of the process as the experiments that ultimately "work".

4. A lesson is repeated until learned. A lesson will be presented to you in various forms until you have learned it. When you have learned it, you can then go on to the next lesson.

5. Learning lessons does not end. There is no part of life that does not contain its lessons. If you are alive, there are lessons to be learned.

6. "There" is no better place than "here". When your "there" has become a "here", you will simply obtain another "there" that will again look better than "here" (which used to be "there".)

7. Others are merely mirrors of you. You cannot love or hate something about another person unless it reflects to you something you love or hate about yourself.

8. What you make of your life is up to you. You have all the tools and resources you need. The choice is yours.

9. Your answers lie inside you. The answer to life's questions lie inside you. All you need to do is look, listen and trust.

10. You will forget all this.

A thruhike is nothing less than an opportunity to experience a concentrated learning experience - a way to become a better person/human. Not everybody understands or believes that.

For me, the ultimate prayer is this: "Lord, please make me as good as my dog thinks I am."

I'm not that good - probably never will be. But that's no excuse for not trying.

[ed bell]

Jack -
I wouldn't argue with you about this - Momma taught me to never start a fight I didin't want to win. :)

All I'm saying is that life is a learning process - and we're still learning. Long ago, someone sent this to me. It has, and will continue, to apply to my life -


A thruhike is nothing less than an opportunity to experience a concentrated learning experience - a way to become a better person/human. Not everybody understands or believes that.

For me, the ultimate prayer is this: "Lord, please make me as good as my dog thinks I am."

I'm not that good - probably never will be. But that's no excuse for not trying. Thank you for this post. I've seen a few posts from you on this site, and it's nice to know a little backround info. I plan to read the content on your site. Thanks for adding to this site.:)

[MOWGLI]

The following website presents an interesting case study;

http://www.luckycowboy.org/site.php

This guy took great lengths to promote a hike that took him as far as Gooch Gap. I hope he is still trying to section hike the trail, and while he does, he leaves the video camera and the laptop at home.

[Big Terrapin]

Yeah , I've seen people drop out of runs, marches and hikes, for a variety of reasons. But I figure it's their own hike. If they take two steps or walk the 2000+ miles to be become a "thru hiker" It's their decision when they are "thru" ...Heck I'm happy b/c I'm changing jobs and have the ability to take two months off from working. I know I'll be happy to get from GA to somewhere into VA before I bail out and get an Enterprise car and get back home. Those two months mean the world to me and that will be enough until I can get back out there again. Don't worry about the other guy, just focus on doing your own thing.:-?

[SunnyWalker]

My son and I rode our bicycles from Amarillo, Texas north up to Kansas and took the North American Bicycle route to Florence, OR. We noticed at first we would hardly move on the map. We then just tried to forget about it, and put into practice a definition I have always used (not original with me): "Daily progression towards predetermined worthwhile goals equals success." Maybe this will come in handy on my thru hike.

[trailangelmary]

It's probably genetics, muscle, and attitude, a combination of those factors. Some people have different strengths and weaknesses, is all.

Our muscles are built with either long distance type or short, sprint type. I know this from sport experience

[Lemni Skate]

I was on the trail in April and my feel for this is that it really depends on how you classify people. A lot of people in Georgia said things to me like, "I'm hoping to go to Katahdin." "I''m hiking until I don't enjoy it." "I'm going as far as I can."

There were a lot of these that were dropping out. Who among this crowd is counted as an attempted thru hiker? I mean, if my wife had called me during that week and told me she won the lottery, my hike would've turned into an attempted thru-hike immediately.

I don't think the 20% figure is unreasonable depending on how you count these people. I've also notice that most groups of two or more hikers don't stick together for the whole trail (except married couples who are used to getting on each other's nerves). A lot of the time the way they separate is for one to quit the trail.

By the time these people get to Shenandoah National Park, most are sure they are thru-hikers. They will tell you in no uncertain terms they are thru-hikers. I would say at this point people only get off the trail for injuries, emergencies at home, lack of funds or lack of time.

[Lemni Skate]

When I did a thru-hike of Northern Virginia and Shenandoah, I told people that if I only went 50 feet into the woods, found a campsite I liked there and meditated for two weeks it was nobody's business but mine. I went into it just letting whatever happened happen. One thing I surprised myself with, however, was that I had a hard letting myself have an easy day. If I hiked to my goal and I wasn't tired, I would push on (which was the opposite of what I told myself I would do) until I was exhausted. I think a lot of people find out their personalities are "different" on the trail than in other parts of their life.

[Dogwood]

I read a surprising statistic that 20% of thru-hikers drop out after only 30 miles. What do you think went wrong for these hikers - lack of planning? inexperience (e.g college kids not realizing what they were in for)? Other unforseen factors?

Many youthful and western minds simply don't posses the attention span and mental toughness to endure a thru-hike. They are used to the get it now mentality and hiking 2200 miles is not in the get it now mentality; it's in the get it in 4-5 months while enduring/enjoying 2200 miles of the trail mentality.

[Reid]

I think alot of people have a concept of what hiking is and it sounds great on paper but when you actually start doing it it's not what they thought it would be. Life if 10% what happens, and 90% how you react to it.

[weary]

recent trail usage is shown on the ATC site:
http://www.appalachiantrail.org/site/c.mqLTIYOwGlF/b.4805579/k.DA92/2000Milers_Facts_and_Statistics.htm

AS of last week:
1750 thru hiker dreamers were recorded as starting at Springer in 2003. This year 1250 started.

1400 reached Neel Gap in 2003. 875 reached there this year.

[Doctari]

In "As far as the eye can see." by David Brill, he mentions two guys that were going to Thru, they did the aproach trail to Springer (I think actually they only made the shelter S of Springer) & quit.
They were totally unprepared, mentally & gear wise. Each was carrying a "Huge cotton sleeping bag" that had gotten totally soaked & were "Hanging out the packs like huge beaver tails"
David relates how one looked at the other the next morning & said "Do you think we can make it?" The other said in a surprised voice "TO KATHADIN?!?!?!" The first said "NO, back down the mountain!"

They left that morning promising to be back the next year better prepared.

I wonder how many of those that quit their first attempt, even the ones that only make it 30 miles, try again the next year.

I know as a sectioner it took me a few attempts before I could stay out for more than 2 weeks at a time. Now I cry if I have to leave after only 3 weeks.

[Grampie]

Hey, no matter how you get there your final destination is still your front door!

I realized that on my second trip across the US on two wheels.

I think you are wrong... Your final destination is a box in the ground.;)

[10-K]

recent trail usage is shown on the ATC site:
http://www.appalachiantrail.org/site/c.mqLTIYOwGlF/b.4805579/k.DA92/2000Milers_Facts_and_Statistics.htm

AS of last week:
1750 thru hiker dreamers were recorded as starting at Springer in 2003. This year 1250 started.

1400 reached Neel Gap in 2003. 875 reached there this year.

Interesting that except for 2006 finish rates for NOBO and SOBO's were statisitically insignificant..

I would have guessed that the completion rate would be higher than 27% - that means roughly only 1 out of 4 finish, according to the ATC's stats, which have to have a pretty wide margin of error.

[Tinker]

I read a surprising statistic that 20% of thru-hikers drop out after only 30 miles. What do you think went wrong for these hikers - lack of planning? inexperience (e.g college kids not realizing what they were in for)? Other unforseen factors?

Some folks gots sense! :D

[Tinker]

I think you are wrong... Your final destination is a box in the ground.;)

I think someone's glass is half empty!

True dat, though. If we remembered that every morning when we woke up, we'd be a lot more satisfied and less stressed when we went to bed.
Getting old sucks, they say, until they consider the alternative. :-?

[Terraducky]

I think a lot of people realize, after a week (which for those who are really, really, challenged, might be 30 miles), that doing the whole thing is just 150 days of the same damn thing, walking the tunnel, PUDS, noodles/sauce, rain, and then the next day is the same, with a few wonderful views. I loved the Trail - still do - but one of the problems is that a lot of people don't realize how much into Zen you have to get - whether you call it that or something else - to handle just walking, walking, walking.

TW

I read these threads and generally keep up...but I don't know what "PUDS" means. Will someone enlighten me?

[Pedaling Fool]

I read these threads and generally keep up...but I don't know what "PUDS" means. Will someone enlighten me?
PUDs = Pointless Up and Downs
MUDs = Mindless Up and Downs

[Tinker]

I read a surprising statistic that 20% of thru-hikers drop out after only 30 miles. What do you think went wrong for these hikers - lack of planning? inexperience (e.g college kids not realizing what they were in for)? Other unforseen factors?

No thruhiker has ever dropped off the AT (think about it) :-?.
Seriously, though, most folks have no idea what the Georgia mountains are like on foot. Having cut my teeth on the White Mts. here in New England I thought they were a piece of cake after I got my trail legs on the third day. That's another thing, trail legs. I hurt like crazy the first day, a little less the second, and by the end of the third I'm usually rarin' to go (but I actually like hiking - different than many of the dropouts).

[Terraducky]

PUDs = Pointless Up and Downs
MUDs = Mindless Up and Downs

Thanks for the clarification! I get it now, and will remember this for the future!:-?

[Tinker]

Thanks for the clarification! I get it now, and will remember this for the future!:-?

Most distance hikers just refer to them all as FUDS after a few weeks.......:rolleyes:

[Terraducky]

Most distance hikers just refer to them all as FUDS after a few weeks.......:rolleyes:


ok, I'll bite...what are "FUDS"?

[cravistaz]

Kirby, sitting here with my laptop watchin CNN. :D

[Lone Wolf]

ok, I'll bite...what are "FUDS"?

F...ing ups and downs

[Tinker]

F...ing ups and downs

Yessir, Bingo!

(Bear in mind that this is NOT official AT jargon, it's just what I hear over and over again on my section hikes. :D

[clured]

I'd guess that a lot of the early attrition has to do with people not realizing how much your body gets in shape. In my experience, the period from about day 3-10 is the hardest of any extended hike. The body holds out alright for the first couple of days, then it blows up and everything gets inflamed. Then, over the course of the next week or so, the tendons/ligaments slowly settle down and build up into something like being in shape. But that initial break-in period can be totally miserable. I remember gasping from knee pain while descending off some of those balds in NC. Two weeks later, I felt strong as ever. But, if you don't know to just push through the misery of the tear-up stage - if you don't know how excellently your body will (hopefully) rise to the challenge - I can easily see why people pull out early, not wanting to be in chronic pain for 4 months.

[mindi]

When I went NOBO in '07, of the ten or twelve people I started with, about half dropped out by Neel's Gap or shortly thereafter. One hiker was sick when she started and kept getting worse..I heard later that she ended up needing surgery. Another fell on his trekking pole and cracked a rib. Another got super-dehydrated going up Sassafrass and left the trail afterwards. Then there were a couple that just decided the trail wasn't for them..they didn't realize that there were going to be big hills to climb, or that hostels aren't 5-star resorts, or that they would get wet.

Myself, I got ill in Virginia and ran out of money.

[peepsters]

Below is an excerpt from an email I sent someone about 2 years ago. Yes, I really do keep some of it.

The hardest part is going to be getting beyond the first few weeks. That's not impossible if you're well prepared. I don't think the Georgia A.T. was deliberately laid out to weed out, but it's very effective at helping people make up their minds about whether or not they really desire to hike the A.T.

I think being a West Virginian puts you at a distinct advantage with respect to other hikers. You grew up knowing Appalachian is pronounced Appalatchin, not Appalayshin or the hybrid Appalaychin and thus will not need to unlearn what Yankees are wrongly taught. You're also going to be on the right side of that argument. More importantly, you know it's the Appalatchin Trial. Trail really ought to be pronounced more like trial, because that's what it is. It's not some nice walk in the woods, although it can be an incredibly rewarding experience!

Read what these words really mean. You are about to become thoroughly acquainted with the concepts they represent. I lifted the definitions from Webster's Online dictionary. Yes, I know, I've got the verb in the first case, the noun in the second, but I'm sure you will get my point.


trail

10 entries found for trail.
Main Entry: 1trail http://www.m-w.com/images/audio.gif (http://javascript<b></b>:popWin('/cgi-bin/audio.pl?trail001.wav=trail'))
Pronunciation: 'trA(&)l
Function: verb
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French trailler to tow, from (assumed) Vulgar Latin tragulare, from Latin tragula sledge, dragnet; akin to Latin trahere to pull
intransitive senses
1 a : to hang down so as to drag along or sweep the ground b : to extend over a surface in a loose or straggling manner <a vine that trails over the ground> c : to grow to such length as to droop over toward the ground <trailing branches of a weeping birch>
2 a : to walk or proceed draggingly, heavily, or wearily : PLOD (http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/plod), TRUDGE (http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/trudge) b : to lag behind : do poorly in relation to others
3 : to move, flow, or extend slowly in thin streams <smoke trailing from chimneys>
4 a : to extend in an erratic or uneven course or line : STRAGGLE (http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/straggle) b : DWINDLE (http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/dwindle) <voice trailing off>
5 : to follow a trail : track game
transitive senses
1 a : to draw or drag loosely along a surface : allow to sweep the ground b : HAUL (http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/haul), TOW (http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/tow)
2 a : to drag (as a limb or the body) heavily or wearily b : to carry or bring along as an addition, burden, or encumbrance c : to draw along in one's wake
3 a : to follow upon the scent or trace of : TRACK (http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/track) b : to follow in the footsteps of : PURSUE (http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/pursue) c : to follow along behind d : to lag behind (as a competitor)
synonym see CHASE (http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/chase) or trial.

trial

16 entries found found for trial.
Main Entry: 1tri·al http://www.m-w.com/images/audio.gif (http://javascript<b></b>:popWin('/cgi-bin/audio.pl?trial001.wav=trial'))
Pronunciation: 'trI(-&)l
Function: noun
Etymology: Anglo-French, from trier to try
1 a : the action or process of trying or putting to the proof : TEST (http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/test) b : a preliminary contest (as in a sport)
2 : the formal examination before a competent tribunal of the matter in issue in a civil or criminal cause in order to determine such issue
3 : a test of faith, patience, or stamina through subjection to suffering or temptation; broadly : a source of vexation or annoyance
4 a : a tryout or experiment to test quality, value, or usefulness b : one of a number of repetitions of an experiment
5 : ATTEMPT (http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/attempt)


People think the Appalachian Trail is a path in the woods and wouldn't it be nice to hike the trail? Maybe they just remember or heard what's pleasant and forgot or never learned the rest of the story. Before they know it, they buy and read books that of course were meant to sell, they buy 1000s of dollars worth of equipment, quit their jobs, get their hopes up and descend upon Springer Mountain in hordes only to find out it's not what they expected. What were they expecting?

I think a modification of the National Scenic Trails Act is in order. What do you think? We just ought to call it the Appalachian Trial. Then everyone would understand.;):D

Its not hard to tell your from down south..........trail is pronounced trial? So Northerners are more likely to quit because they pronounce things like they are spelled?

[gonewalkabout]

Simply reality was different than their expectations and they were not able to adapt or except what the trail was.

[ShelterLeopard]

I read a surprising statistic that 20% of thru-hikers drop out after only 30 miles. What do you think went wrong for these hikers - lack of planning? inexperience (e.g college kids not realizing what they were in for)? Other unforseen factors?

A lot of people have a romanticized view of the trail (which in all honesty, is not far from the truth- but you only have those nicer days after the bad first weeks of getting back into shape and into hiking mode). A lot of people hear someone talking about the trail, go to a gear store and get "outfitted" and decide they'll hike for the first time in Georgia. Then they discover that there are rocks there- and bugs, and it is cold. Honestly, I think if people went for a one week shakedown in Pennsylvania before deciding to do the whole thing, it would seriously cut down on the amount of people who come to Georgia with no idea of what is coming.

PA- The place where new boots and old boots alike go to die.

[Jan LiteShoe]

A lot of people have a romanticized view of the trail (which in all honesty, is not far from the truth- but you only have those nicer days after the bad first weeks of getting back into shape and into hiking mode).

This is a balanced view. The trail IS great and one can experience a heady freedom - and it's also work, and wet, and seemingly endless.


Honestly, I think if people went for a one week shakedown in Pennsylvania before deciding to do the whole thing, it would seriously cut down on the amount of people who come to Georgia with no idea of what is coming.

Excellent advice.
It's why I chose to hike the Long Trail first, before I blew up my everyday life to disappear for six months.
I needed to know.
:sun

[kayak karl]

hats off to anyone who attempts the trail, 30 miles or not. how many on WB have never even tried:-?. its still an adventure of a life time:)

[Egads]

I read a surprising statistic that 20% of thru-hikers drop out after only 30 miles. What do you think went wrong for these hikers - lack of planning? inexperience (e.g college kids not realizing what they were in for)? Other unforseen factors?

Here is one possible reason


Hello my name is ...., i am compitly new to hiking, and the appalachian trail. This past year however i had a dream. it came to me in a dream that i need to get back to my roots. so i decided i am going to hike the whole trail start to finish. i am only 17. My goal is one month after i graduate i plan on starting so June 1, 2010. I of corse know no one that hikes or any thing along those lines. so im on here asking for help. I need to know everything, i mean every EVERY thing. from what i need, were to start like excaly. I need any thing and every thing your willing to say, ill take it all. please i need the help. Thank You.

[Red Hat]

Twelve pages of this thread summed up: Unrealistic Expectations
Too many people think that if they can hike 12-15 miles easily at home, they should be able to on the AT, when it would be better to do fewer miles to start. They try to carry too much weight. They are not prepared for the "punches" the trail throws. A wise man once told me to roll with the punches and flow with the trail. I haven't done it all yet, but I have over 1100 miles in. Hard times? You bet! But I know that hiking the AT is a love/hate relationship and I will never give up on our relationship.

[ShelterLeopard]

Here is one possible reason


Exactly- I mean, who decides to go hiking after never having hiked with a full pack before??? No wonder so many drop out.

[emerald]

So, Northerners are more likely to quit because they pronounce things more like they are spelled?

Yes, unless they were born and raised in Maine, portions of New Hampshire, Massachusetts or New York City, then what you've posted is so. Southerners are more likely to quit too, but for other reasons.:-?

Everyone knows hikers from Pennsylvania have the highest completion rates, hence ShelterLeopard's advice a few posts back.;) Hikers seeking a sample of what it might be like to through hike the AT should seek terrain with more elevation changes, like Jan found on Vermont's Long Trail. If it weren't for the heat and humidity through hikers encounter in Pennsylvania, they would blow through it like the wind.

Peepsters and others who enjoyed those quoted exerpts from my letter are likely to enjoy Appalachian pronunciation (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=44383). It's more of the same, but better than my letter.

[High Life]

F...ing ups and downs

"im not a blue blazer "....hahaha skipping spruce peak though for a big mac FTW :sun

[kayak karl]

Twelve pages of this thread summed up: Unrealistic Expectations
hi redhat, how ya been?
.................
i wonder how many people had the trail kick their butt, but go back later and complete it.
what is the purpose of this thread? point out failure? if you can't do it why try? I'm better then you? even prepared people fail.
I'm sure the way we talk about these naive, unprepared, unrealistic hikers they are not going to chime in on this thread:-?
i almost quit at Neel gap my knee was so bad. if i had, would i have fallen into this thread:-?

[emerald]

What is the purpose of this thread?

To point out hikers who test the water before diving in have a better idea how agreeable it's apt to be and there are initial hurdles all must clear.

[superman]

To point out hikers who test the water before diving in head-first have a better idea how agreeable it's apt to be and there are initial hurdles all must clear before it becomes easier.

Every year I have people contact me who want to hike the AT with their dog. I try to stress to them how important it is to do a significant shake down hike with there dog before attempting the AT. I feel that if they aren't motivated enough to do that they should stay home and play in their yard.:)

[Rockhound]

This thread got me thinking. They bet on almost everything in Las Vegas. Why not hiking. Get a professional odds maker at Amicalola. Or a computer program that takes into account age weight experience etc.... Could be a real money maker. Get all the 1st timers layin' down some fat cash thinking it will pay for the whole trip.

[Rockhound]

Minnesota Smith 3 to 2 against. Baltimore Jack disqualified for yellow blazing. Lonewolf disqualified for blueblazing.............

[Dogwood]

A greater and greater % of Americans are getting that sense of entitlement without having to put in the effort to succeed in the course of life. This sense of entitlement carries over into many walks of life, including completing a thru-hike. After only a short time thru-hiking they begin to realize they will have to earn the title of successful thru-hiker. Some folks are just not used to going out and getting "IT." They rely on "IT" being dropped on their doorstep at the expense of someone else. If they can't get it under the pretense of someone else's labor they start exaggerating, justifying, and rationializing their accomplishments and failures. My statements may hit some between the eyes, but it's about time we return to the American work ethic and a level of honesty that has made this country great.

[wrongway_08]

Dogwood, nice post! Entitlement is pretty much all parents and schools (not teachers so much but the school systems itself) teach kids now-a-days.

Most people dont relize how much effort it takes (mental mostly) to hike the A.T. (or other long trail). They get out there and then wham..... they relize how out of shape and how its not really "a walk in the woods".

[SunnyWalker]

I have section hiked GA and did not view it at the time as difficult or hard. As far as folks quitting-I think it is boredom. And they get to thinking of all the stuff they are "missing" and what they "could be doing" if they were not on the AT. IMO they loose sight (if they ever saw it) the incredible enviroment they are in and its beauty and stillness. I never battled boredom, myself. Perhaps it's a way of looking at what you are doing?