Canned foods

[mark.k.watson]

I love tuna and eat a lot while hiking. I have always used the pouches, never cans, and this has only been for several day outings. My question, how much more weight and hastle will it be to take cans rather than pouches.
Obviously it will be a bit more, but when a can costs $.50 and a pouch $1.75 or more, the weight may be worth the hastle.
What do you think?

[Appalachian Tater]

Most of the weight difference is in liquid, not in packaging.

[Frolicking Dinosaurs]

Why not weigh a pouch and a can -- I'm thinking that the oil pack tuna would be worth some extra weight because of the extra calories (and flavor).

[take-a-knee]

Unless it was a LONG hike, I'd go with the cans, especially if you are going to have campfires so you can burn the cans out before you crush them flat. If the cans are steel, then they could be buried in a wet climate, they'd rust away pretty quick, but critters would dig them up if you didn't burn all traces of food odor out first.

[Appalachian Tater]

Unless it was a LONG hike, I'd go with the cans, especially if you are going to have campfires so you can burn the cans out before you crush them flat. If the cans are steel, then they could be buried in a wet climate, they'd rust away pretty quick, but critters would dig them up if you didn't burn all traces of food odor out first.

That apparently used to be a very common way of dealing with cans. I saw little piles of what looked like 75-year old rusted cans near some shelters on the A.T.

Also old steel farm equipment and cars and even bits of an old stove from the first quarter of the twentieth century in the ruins of a log cabin. It was indeed rusty. Maybe it will complete rust away in few hundred years.

[JAK]

If I bring along something in a can it is usually because I am more interested in making something with the can rather than eating what is in it. :D

[Montego]

That apparently used to be a very common way of dealing with cans. I saw little piles of what looked like 75-year old rusted cans near some shelters on the A.T.

Also old steel farm equipment and cars and even bits of an old stove from the first quarter of the twentieth century in the ruins of a log cabin. It was indeed rusty. Maybe it will complete rust away in few hundred years.


How did you determine that the old rusted cans were 75 years old? Just curious. :-?

[Appalachian Tater]

How did you determine that the old rusted cans were 75 years old? Just curious. :-?

What part of "what looked like" don't you understand?

The cans were of odd size and proportion.

[Frolicking Dinosaurs]

I burn cans out if a fire is available to cut down on the smell, but I pack them out. We often pack in a 1lb canned ham - makes a hearty meal for two.

[Montego]

What part of "what looked like" don't you understand?

The cans were of odd size and proportion.

Thank you. "odd size and proportion" would do it.

P.S. Old items fascinate me and I wasn't trying to by critical, just curious.

P.P.S. Your phrase "What part of 'what looked like' don't you understand?" sounded a bit snippy, and if so, I didn't mean to offend you with a simple question.

[sarbar]

Out of boredom a year or ago I weighed the packaging in cans and pouches...and they are the same. As noted, it is the liquid that weighs. In canned chicken the broth is useable in your meals. Tuna? Get oil packed!
I crush the cans and pack them out. You can recycle them at home if you do that (I do). Pouches though are garbage only.

The old refuse pits in alpine in Wa are intresting - in old hunting camps often 50-100 years old. Canned goods from the 30's and 40's, you can still read the labels.

[Appalachian Tater]

Thank you. "odd size and proportion" would do it.

P.S. Old items fascinate me and I wasn't trying to by critical, just curious.

P.P.S. Your phrase "What part of 'what looked like' don't you understand?" sounded a bit snippy, and if so, I didn't mean to offend you with a simple question.

And I was snippy and I apologize. It was the "mean smiley face" that did it.

[Wise Old Owl]

Cans vs the new pouches? I know you can taste the difference, pouches and product handling means and the pouches taste better! There is a large difference in freshness and flavor of the pouch. Now there are two sizes of pouchs and the smaller one is great for folks on their own. I would not care about the weight. I am Hungry! Its great to have choices, and I am not interested in toting a can. Why would you drop $300 + on a good sleeping bag and buy cheap food for a upcoming trip?


No I don't own a exspensive bag. Don't ask

[sarbar]

WOO...try the albacore tuna in olive oil...it might change your views of canned :) And I don't like canned tuna (it is usually pulverized!) The Albacore in the oil is actual chunks.

[Pokey2006]

I have to mention that the chicken in pouches is WAY better than canned chicken. It's a whole chicken breast, and comes in all kinds of flavors.

On the other hand, I'm a huge fan of canned ham, always carried at least a couple out of town after resupplying. It's totally worth the extra weight, just for the boost in energy (I noticed a difference, personally).

Cans are definitely cheaper, and the way I would go if I was doing a long-distance hike, or on a budget. Sometimes saving money is more important than saving half an ounce.

[Critterman]

Starkist chunk light in water canned - 7.2 oz , 125 cal 27.5g potein
Starkist chunk light in water pouch - 3.5 oz, 90 cal 20g protein

[sheepdog]

Thank you. "odd size and proportion" would do it.

P.S. Old items fascinate me and I wasn't trying to by critical, just curious.

P.P.S. Your phrase "What part of 'what looked like' don't you understand?" sounded a bit snippy, and if so, I didn't mean to offend you with a simple question.
You rock Montego!!! If more people had your class, there would be a lot less flame wars going on around here.:sun:sun:sun

[mark.k.watson]

Thanks all. As always I will have to try cans on a shake down hike. I never thought of just burying the cans. You are very correct. The cans will rust away. The way I figure, if I dispose of a can it would not be anywhere near a shelter or campground. It would be off the trail, sometime when I teed to take a potty break. Although not "Leave No Trace" I believe that this is still a legitimate disposal method because they will rot away.
BTW tuna in oil ... not for me. Water is much better.

[mudhead]

I never thought of just burying the cans. You are very correct. The cans will rust away. The way I figure, if I dispose of a can it would not be anywhere near a shelter or campground. It would be off the trail, sometime when I teed to take a potty break. Although not "Leave No Trace" I believe that this is still a legitimate disposal method because they will rot away.
.

You lugged it in there full. You can lug it out empty.

[mark.k.watson]

You lugged it in there full. You can lug it out empty.
I hear ya. Still debating this, but they will rot out.
Say BTW anyone know how long steel cans will last in the East? I know that I have found cans in the West that have been around for a while. I don't know how long though.

[kayak karl]

If I bring along something in a can it is usually because I am more interested in making something with the can rather than eating what is in it. :D
aint that the truth. i take a tape measure to the market to size up cans:)

[kayak karl]

I hear ya. Still debating this, but they will rot out.
Say BTW anyone know how long steel cans will last in the East? I know that I have found cans in the West that have been around for a while. I don't know how long though.
in jersey we have a high concentration of copper sulfate. steel will not rust or rot in this. lakes with this in it are commonly referred to as blue holes and the sand for miles contain it. i agree with above.

CARRY IT OUT!

its not steel anyway. its an alloy of some sort, isnt it? the outside of a can would be zinc? i dont know, but im not trashing up the woods.

Oh! maybe this is Hiker Trash:D

[shelterbuilder]

...I never thought of just burying the cans. You are very correct. The cans will rust away. The way I figure, if I dispose of a can it would not be anywhere near a shelter or campground. It would be off the trail, sometime when I teed to take a potty break. Although not "Leave No Trace" I believe that this is still a legitimate disposal method because they will rot away...

Mark, please reconsider - this is not a good idea. The cans don't really weigh THAT much when they're empty, and I have seen buried cans from the 50's and early 60's that were still very much alive (as cans) when they were pulled from the ground in the late 90's. Rinse them or burn off the food, but please cruch them and bring them out with you - the earth isn't a "throw-away" product.:(

[oldfivetango]

I have first hand knowledge of steel food cans since I worked for
years in the industry.

Todays steel cans have protective lacquers applied to them.
It will take eons to rust one away.If it is buried I would suspect that
it would take longer since the oxygen in the air helps steel rust.

The only environmentally conscientious thing to do is to pack it out.
It will make you feel better.too.:DYou were going to pack that pouch out
anyway weren't you?
Oldfivetango

[doggiebag]

Thank you. "odd size and proportion" would do it.

P.S. Old items fascinate me and I wasn't trying to by critical, just curious.

P.P.S. Your phrase "What part of 'what looked like' don't you understand?" sounded a bit snippy, and if so, I didn't mean to offend you with a simple question.
You are one cool cat Montego. :D

[Jack Tarlin]

I carry cans all the time, like tuna with oil; Underwood deviled ham, etc.

I wouldn't carry large cans (at least I wouldn't wanna carry them very far), and I wouldn't want to pack too many cans on some of the longer stretches of Trail, but in most cases, one encounters a trash can at least every few days or so, so it's not like you're gonna be packing the empties for very long.

Just make sure to pack extra ziplocks so the cans don't leak and stink out your pack.

But yes indeed, the cans tend to cost a lot less than the pouches.

Lastly, it's been said already: Pack 'em in, pack 'em out. Whether pouch or can, burying or burning is not acceptable.

[sarbar]

I hear ya. Still debating this, but they will rot out.
Say BTW anyone know how long steel cans will last in the East? I know that I have found cans in the West that have been around for a while. I don't know how long though.

I know I have packed out enough inconsiderate jerkwads garbage piles in my lifetime :mad: Thanks but no thanks. From people taking dumps on the side of the trail and wiping their butt with a t-shirt (then tossed on top of said dump) to candy wrappers, to cans in illegal firepits to even used diapers. Yeah, that is what the wilderness is: our personal dump becuase we are too **** ****** LAZY to haul our garbage out. The next time I see someone do a dropping of garbage I am tossing it at their head. Kind of like the idiots we came across a couple years ago who were ripping shingles off a shelter for their fire :mad:

You want to talk how long cans last in the West? Come out to the Olympics - I'll show you numerous trash pits. That are over 50 years old. Some are easily pushing 75.

[Erin]

I agree with the above posts. Pouch chicken is way better than can o' chicken. Put it with a pouch of stove top stuffing, some butter buds,dried morels if you are lucky, share with a partner and it is
Thanksgiving meal on the trail. Pouches just seem less bluky to carry out also. They roll up small, unlike a can.

[Thoughtful Owl]

I hear ya. Still debating this, but they will rot out.
Say BTW anyone know how long steel cans will last in the East? I know that I have found cans in the West that have been around for a while. I don't know how long though.

Enough said, this is why you should pack them out!

TO

[gsingjane]

I wonder if some of the pouched foods are being phased out, making this question moot at some point. My local grocery store was selling off big stocks of pouched chicken breast, albacore steak, shrimp, crab, etc., which usually means the product is being discontinued (or at least, discontinued by that store). I bought as much as I could afford, which unfortunately wasn't all that much, but I have always sort of wondered who bought that stuff besides backpackers anyway.

Jane in CT

p.s. I know this thread isn't about LNT, but the statement "pack it in, pack it out," doesn't have any exceptions for "unless it would rot eventually anyway." Under that logic, you could pretty much toss anything, since given sufficient time and moisture, it would eventually decompose. Most people who really follow LNT don't even toss stuff like apple cores or orange peels, since not only do they actually take much longer to decompose than you'd think, but they also disrupt the normal balance of food and plants in the ecosystem.

[desdemona]

My hands on science class tested this this summer. We weighed those little cereal boxes and space packed cereal (that would be cereal in zip lock bags with the air sucked out of them via soda straw). There was a significant difference. The packages of tuna aren't space packed though (and they do carry smallish cans into space, like the tiny tuna cans). I would guess there is a bit more liquid in the cans and a lot more air in the packages. You might weigh these like we did. :-)

The weight on the container won't tell you much as that is the weight of the product.

--des

[minnesotasmith]

The variety, reduced weight, low price, and ease of finding for sale of fish in foil packs have become so good.

If you're going to carry any canned food, I'd suggest something like corned beef or Spam turkey (only, other Spam being too high-fat to be considered meat IMO, rather just meat-garnished lard, like Vienna sausage).

[Tennaseevol]

If the extra weight of the can and the higher cost of the tuna in a pouch is an issue for you. Try this...

1) Purchase the cheaper canned tuna.
2) Open the can and empty contents into a zip lock or sandwich bag. Discard the can in the recycle bin. I personally use a freezer bags for better durability. The bag size will depend on how much you put in it. Be sure to leave at least 1/4 - 1/2 inch left empty in the top of the bag.
4) Fold the empty top of the bag over itself until almost to the tuna. You want to remove as much air as possible.
5) Take strips of aluminum foil and place on top and under the folds.
6) Use a clothes iron to iron the folds protion until the bag folds melt together, sealing the bag. The aluminum foil will keep the bag from melting to the bottom of your iron. This may take a little practice. Too much heat and the top will separate from the lower half. Be sure to not touch the iron directly to the bag for obvious reasons.
7) Place the sealed bag(s) of tuna in a bigger zip lock in case of leaks. If done properly, it won't leak unless punctured.

This can be done with a lot of things you want to take on the trail which initially comes in a can. I don't know how long it will keep using this method, but my trips are usually only a week max and I've never had it go bad that soon. You can also invest in a vacuum sealer (which is easier but requires an investment).

Hope this helps...Tenn

[sarbar]

Or *cough cough* to avoid any very potential food poisoning just dehdyrate canned tuna! It dries up very nicely (non oil) and comes back in a few minutes after boiling water has been added.

[Tennaseevol]

Sarbar's right. Don't mean to get anyone sick out there.

[Appalachian Tater]

If you're going to carry any canned food, I'd suggest something like corned beef or Spam turkey (only, other Spam being too high-fat to be considered meat IMO, rather just meat-garnished lard, like Vienna sausage).

Spam comes in foil packs as well, single-serve.


Sarbar's right. Don't mean to get anyone sick out there.

Yes, PLEASE DON'T carry tuna fish around in a bag for a week and then eat it. You can get food poisoning even from food that tastes and smells fine and you can die from it. Not a glorious way to go.

[Bob S]

Spam comes in foil packs as well, single-serve.



Yes, PLEASE DON'T carry tuna fish around in a bag for a week and then eat it. You can get food poisoning even from food that tastes and smells fine and you can die from it. Not a glorious way to go.


Is there a good way to go? :-?

[Appalachian Tater]

Is there a good way to go? :-? There are certainly better ones!

[NICKTHEGREEK]

That apparently used to be a very common way of dealing with cans. I saw little piles of what looked like 75-year old rusted cans near some shelters on the A.T.

Also old steel farm equipment and cars and even bits of an old stove from the first quarter of the twentieth century in the ruins of a log cabin. It was indeed rusty. Maybe it will complete rust away in few hundred years.
That's what we used to do in scouts in Western PA. Burn and bury. Not necessarily LNT.

[Jimmers]

I hear ya. Still debating this, but they will rot out.
Say BTW anyone know how long steel cans will last in the East? I know that I have found cans in the West that have been around for a while. I don't know how long though.

Well, when we roto-tilled my parents' backyard a few years ago I found a few cans that me and my friends buried there when we used to make tunnels for our matchbox cars. They had to be at least 25 years old, and other than being smashed flat weren't rusted much at all.

You might want to reconsider burying the cans. I found this at Waste Age (http://wasteage.com/mag/waste_steel_cans_4/):

"Steel cans are made from tinplate steel, which is produced in basic oxygen furnaces. A thin layer of tin is applied to the can's inner and outer surfaces to prevent rusting and to protect food and beverage flavors."

[swellbill]

Is there a good way to go? :-?

I can think of a few ways but that's probably not for this thread :D

[budforester]

This might be OK for a winter overnight, but repacking canned food is courting disaster!


If the extra weight of the can and the higher cost of the tuna in a pouch is an issue for you. Try this...

1) Purchase the cheaper canned tuna.
2) Open the can and empty contents into a zip lock or sandwich bag. Discard the can in the recycle bin. I personally use a freezer bags for better durability. The bag size will depend on how much you put in it. Be sure to leave at least 1/4 - 1/2 inch left empty in the top of the bag.
4) Fold the empty top of the bag over itself until almost to the tuna. You want to remove as much air as possible.
5) Take strips of aluminum foil and place on top and under the folds.
6) Use a clothes iron to iron the folds protion until the bag folds melt together, sealing the bag. The aluminum foil will keep the bag from melting to the bottom of your iron. This may take a little practice. Too much heat and the top will separate from the lower half. Be sure to not touch the iron directly to the bag for obvious reasons.
7) Place the sealed bag(s) of tuna in a bigger zip lock in case of leaks. If done properly, it won't leak unless punctured.

This can be done with a lot of things you want to take on the trail which initially comes in a can. I don't know how long it will keep using this method, but my trips are usually only a week max and I've never had it go bad that soon. You can also invest in a vacuum sealer (which is easier but requires an investment).

Hope this helps...Tenn

[Bulldawg]

I have to mention that the chicken in pouches is WAY better than canned chicken. It's a whole chicken breast, and comes in all kinds of flavors.

On the other hand, I'm a huge fan of canned ham, always carried at least a couple out of town after resupplying. It's totally worth the extra weight, just for the boost in energy (I noticed a difference, personally).

Cans are definitely cheaper, and the way I would go if I was doing a long-distance hike, or on a budget. Sometimes saving money is more important than saving half an ounce.
Where do you buy chicken in the pouch? I can't seem to find any?

Anyone ever seen roast beef in a pouch? I love the Lipton Beef Noodles and usually pack in a can of roast beef but would love a pouch.

[jzakhar]

In really cold weather you can break down cans into zip lock bags for a day or two to reduce a little bit of weight. I also tend to take a lot of lunch meat in zip lock bags as well.

[minnesotasmith]

Why not weigh a pouch and a can -- I'm thinking that the oil pack tuna would be worth some extra weight because of the extra calories (and flavor).

The type of added oil in packaged food matters; some you definitely don't want. Mainly you need to make sure there's no soybean oil (if it says "vegetable oil" on the label, that's usually soy oil). Also, sometimes there can be highly saturated oils such as palm oil, coconut oil, or any hydrogenated oils that're best to skip as well. Aside from being cardiovascular system sabotage, they have a lower % of nutritionally useful fats called essential fatty acids, or EFAs. That makes them doubly worth avoiding when possible.

[Nearly Normal]

I use the tuna fillet packed in olive oil. (Canned)
It seems to me a better product and healthy except the mercury concern. Cost a little more.
Pack it out. Take an extra ziplock for all your trash.

[minnesotasmith]

I use the tuna fillet packed in olive oil. (Canned)
It seems to me a better product and healthy except the mercury concern. Cost a little more.
Pack it out. Take an extra ziplock for all your trash.

Agreed wholeheartedly about olive oil being the type of fat to use on the Trail (and in normal life as well).

Why not go with salmon instead of tuna, though? Less mercury by far, and (presuming it's wildcaught, not farm-raised, which has none) has substantially higher Omega-3 levels. Virtually all the fish-in-foil-packs I ate on the AT were salmon.

[Thoughtful Owl]

Where do you buy chicken in the pouch? I can't seem to find any?

Anyone ever seen roast beef in a pouch? I love the Lipton Beef Noodles and usually pack in a can of roast beef but would love a pouch.

Pretty much any of the grocery stores around here (Kroger, FoodLion, WalMart) carry the chicken in the pouches. Look in the around the tuna area. You can usually buy the chicken season a couple of different ways. I have also tried the packaged salmon filets. They are not to bad either. For dinner a salmon filet and some rice...maybe a hershey dark chocolate bar for dessert and we are good to go.

TO

[beckyjean]

well, can't you dehydrate the tuna, and then it wouldnt matter anyways? I thought I read a few posts, saying that dehydrating tuna was easy..?
Is it?

[Grampie]

Thanks all. As always I will have to try cans on a shake down hike. I never thought of just burying the cans. You are very correct. The cans will rust away. The way I figure, if I dispose of a can it would not be anywhere near a shelter or campground. It would be off the trail, sometime when I teed to take a potty break. Although not "Leave No Trace" I believe that this is still a legitimate disposal method because they will rot away.
BTW tuna in oil ... not for me. Water is much better.

If you take caned food on the trail don't burn the cans or bury them. Pack them out and dispose of them like any other trash.
I would use the tuna in the small cans. I believe they were 3 oz. size. They come three to a package. When empty I just flatten them out with a rock and put the flat can into my empty Lipton package.
A lot of places along the AT where folkes lived or camped, long ago, you can still find rusty cans. We don't need to add any more.

[Bob S]

Where do you buy chicken in the pouch? I can't seem to find any?

Anyone ever seen roast beef in a pouch? I love the Lipton Beef Noodles and usually pack in a can of roast beef but would love a pouch.

I’ve seen chicken in a pouch at my local Kroger store hanging on a hook in the isle that has can goods.


A company called “Sweet Sue” the same one that makes the chicken & dumplings in a can is the one that makes the chicken in the pouch.

[sarbar]

well, can't you dehydrate the tuna, and then it wouldnt matter anyways? I thought I read a few posts, saying that dehydrating tuna was easy..?
Is it?
Yes, but fair warning....it stinks up your house :p:eek:

[Bob S]

When I make Jerky the whole house smells SO GOOD!!!

[SunnyWalker]

In Nat'l forests and all there are rules about trash. In WA state, the rules (read "laws") said that you HAD to pack it out and you could not bury your trash. There might be laws or rules like this in many of the forests you walk and hike through while on the AT. Myself, I would not think for a moment of burying trash. It is so light and is no problem to carry out.

[mweinstone]

this thread is good. if not a bit pedestrian. allthough their is one post that is so rare and funney it must be imortalized in the annals and annums of whiteblaze forever. the guy with the iron sealed foil ziped tuna /salmanilla bombs that he" dont know how long they would keep" you cant make this crap up. that ship is friggin the best ive ever heard. it makes minnesota smiths boxed water look cool. dude, get a clue. eating is a medical thinggy. dont play fisherman at home. put the iron down.canned tuna lasts 18 minutes open at 70 degrees. your bag sealed with an iron is open. not sealed. death is what youve sealed in that bag. a horrible pooping , farting, burping poopgas death. come to the warmer. ill make you bacon. back of the doyal dawn. sat morn.

[EMAN]

Sarbar-
What's the thought about taking something like SPAM and putting it as slices into the SealAMeal type thing? I bought some in foil pkgs but obviously it's cheaper in the can (sorry folks, I love SPAM).
I dehydrate most stuff and I freezerbag about everything I eat but I have a sealer and I always wondered if I could take the SPAM or maybe even tuna from a can and reseal it in a package. Sealer says to use a paper towel to absorb liquid and space. Sounds a wee bogus.
And yeah, I know this sounds like a pretty dumb question but I'd like to know what you think.

[jlb2012]

Sarbar-
What's the thought about taking something like SPAM and putting it as slices into the SealAMeal type thing? I bought some in foil pkgs but obviously it's cheaper in the can (sorry folks, I love SPAM).
I dehydrate most stuff and I freezerbag about everything I eat but I have a sealer and I always wondered if I could take the SPAM or maybe even tuna from a can and reseal it in a package. Sealer says to use a paper towel to absorb liquid and space. Sounds a wee bogus.
And yeah, I know this sounds like a pretty dumb question but I'd like to know what you think.

Normally the answer to this type of question is that there is a high risk of spoilage - but the I got to thinking - is it possible to put the food in the SealAMeal bag squeezing out all the air that is possible then boiling the bag for a few minutes to kill any microbes/spores that might have been in the bag or on the food from the transfer?

[budforester]

You guys are frightening me! Once you puncture a can, it becomes a perishable food. I am qualified to comment on this subject; it would require complete re- processing, with control of container integrity. Botulism would ruin more than just your hike.

[Appalachian Tater]

You guys are frightening me! Once you puncture a can, it becomes a perishable food. I am qualified to comment on this subject; it would require complete re- processing, with control of container integrity. Botulism would ruin more than just your hike.Once food is out of the can, there are other ways to preserve it, such as dehydration or freezing. If the weather is cool, and you can maintain the temperature of the food at about 34 F or lower, it's no different than the food being in a refrigerator. And yeah, people die from food poisoning quite frequently.

[take-a-knee]

Normally the answer to this type of question is that there is a high risk of spoilage - but the I got to thinking - is it possible to put the food in the SealAMeal bag squeezing out all the air that is possible then boiling the bag for a few minutes to kill any microbes/spores that might have been in the bag or on the food from the transfer?

NO, the ones that will kill you graveyard dead, like clostridium botulinum, the causative organism for botulism, thrive best in an oxygen-free environment. Once you puncture that can, if it is warm, you have a limited amount of time to consume it safely. How limited? That depends on a host of factors, the primary one being the ambient temperature.

[budforester]

Once food is out of the can, there are other ways to preserve it, such as dehydration or freezing. If the weather is cool, and you can maintain the temperature of the food at about 34 F or lower, it's no different than the food being in a refrigerator. And yeah, people die from food poisoning quite frequently.


Yes, thanks for clarifying my post.

[Appalachian Tater]

Yes, thanks for clarifying my post.Still scares me people are talking about this. I'm a little funny about canned tuna fish anyway but the thought of eating some that had been carried around in a sandwich bag for a couple of days during the summer makes me absolutely nauseated.

[Wise Old Owl]

Sarbar-
What's the thought about taking something like SPAM and putting it as slices into the SealAMeal type thing? I bought some in foil pkgs but obviously it's cheaper in the can (sorry folks, I love SPAM).
I dehydrate most stuff and I freezerbag about everything I eat but I have a sealer and I always wondered if I could take the SPAM or maybe even tuna from a can and reseal it in a package. Sealer says to use a paper towel to absorb liquid and space. Sounds a wee bogus.
And yeah, I know this sounds like a pretty dumb question but I'd like to know what you think.

Eman, although Spam is precooked it is deliberatly fatty and salty as it does appear to spoil faster than other non fat meats. If you have todo this -fry it up sliced and dry it off on paper towl before sealing in a seal a meal that will remove more water and fat, then treat like a boil a bag in camp. - I know someone will still find this a risk - but if it is consumed by day three like bacon, I cannot see the harm for something that is cooked 2x.

[jesse]

how do you open the cans? Pocket knife?

ps: Don't bury cans!

[Appalachian Tater]

Eman, although Spam is precooked it is deliberatly fatty and salty as it does appear to spoil faster than other non fat meats. If you have todo this -fry it up sliced and dry it off on paper towl before sealing in a seal a meal that will remove more water and fat, then treat like a boil a bag in camp. - I know someone will still find this a risk - but if it is consumed by day three like bacon, I cannot see the harm for something that is cooked 2x.Cooking may kill organisms but it doesn't generally render the toxins harmless. It's the toxins that kill you.

[Green Frog]

Still scares me people are talking about this. I'm a little funny about canned tuna fish anyway but the thought of eating some that had been carried around in a sandwich bag for a couple of days during the summer makes me absolutely nauseated.



http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/customavatars/avatar10117_9.gif (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/member.php?u=10117) You remind me of my cat getting its paw wet, but saying "I'm a little funny about canned tuna" with an avatar like this needs to be in the humor section!

[Wise Old Owl]

Cooking may kill organisms but it doesn't generally render the toxins harmless. It's the toxins that kill you.

Oh boy - People eat unrefrigerated real bacon bits all the time. People eat unrefrigerated pizza (with pepperoni) left out on the table on Day two- down at the college frat. What about yesterdays ham sandwich that wasn't finished?

What specific toxin is going to form inside an almost no air vacume Seal a Meal boil a bag with 2x cooked Spam by day three? How will the toxin form? Inquiring minds want to know; Tater.

[budforester]

Eman, although Spam is precooked it is deliberatly fatty and salty as it does appear to spoil faster than other non fat meats. If you have todo this -fry it up sliced and dry it off on paper towl before sealing in a seal a meal that will remove more water and fat, then treat like a boil a bag in camp. - I know someone will still find this a risk - but if it is consumed by day three like bacon, I cannot see the harm for something that is cooked 2x.

I'm uncomfortable, so I'll stop after this comment. Staphylococcus aureus intoxication would probably be the big risk with this plan. Staph is normal flora of skin [handling]. With temperature abuse, Staph can grow out in a matter of hours, not days. As Tater said, cold weather or refrigeration is beneficial [but be aware that Staph can grow and produce toxin at low temperatures that would inhibit some of the other spoilage organisms].

[Appalachian Tater]

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/customavatars/avatar10117_9.gif (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/member.php?u=10117) You remind me of my cat getting its paw wet, but saying "I'm a little funny about canned tuna" with an avatar like this needs to be in the humor section!

I'm not really a cat.


Oh boy - People eat unrefrigerated real bacon bits all the time. People eat unrefrigerated pizza (with pepperoni) left out on the table on Day two- down at the college frat. What about yesterdays ham sandwich that wasn't finished? Those bacon bits and pepperoni and possibly the ham are all preserved meats. Personally, I wouldn't eat a ham sandwich that had been left out overnight unless I knew if and how the ham had been preserved and even if it were a preserved country ham, it would depend on the other ingredients of the sandwich.


What specific toxin is going to form inside an almost no air vacume Seal a Meal boil a bag with 2x cooked Spam by day three? How will the toxin form? Inquiring minds want to know; Tater.I don't know anything about Spam or Seal a Meal boil a bag. The specific toxin would depend on the organism growing. If you manage to create a sterile sealed environment, no organisms would grow and there would be no toxins. Good luck with that.

[jlb2012]

I'm still trying to figure out what is still living on the SPAM to form toxins after the SPAM in a bag has been boiled for a few minutes - there would not be enough time for toxins to form in between opening the can, toss contents in bag, boil bag and contents after sealing, inspect bag after boiling to verify that no leaks formed.

[Wise Old Owl]

Staphylococcus aureus intoxication would probably be the big risk with this plan. Staph is normal flora of skin [handling]. With temperature abuse, Staph can grow out in a matter of hours, not days. As Tater said, cold weather or refrigeration is beneficial [but be aware that Staph can grow and produce toxin at low temperatures that would inhibit some of the other spoilage organisms].

Ok There is the answer, -Thank you Budforester


I'm still trying to figure out what is still living on the SPAM to form toxins after the SPAM in a bag has been boiled for a few minutes - there would not be enough time for toxins to form in between opening the can, toss contents in bag, boil bag and contents after sealing, inspect bag after boiling to verify that no leaks formed. Yes that was my thought too.

Tater - Spam is loaded with Sodium Phosphate, Potassium Chloride, Sodium Ascorbate,and Sodium Nitrate. It has more preservatives than bacon. A wopping 1740 mg of sodium per 12 0z can.

And you were right.

[Appalachian Tater]

I'm still trying to figure out what is still living on the SPAM to form toxins after the SPAM in a bag has been boiled for a few minutes - there would not be enough time for toxins to form in between opening the can, toss contents in bag, boil bag and contents after sealing, inspect bag after boiling to verify that no leaks formed.Mere boiling is not enough. You have to have a high enough temperature for a long enough period of time. Often pressure is used to obtain sufficient temperatures. I'm not an expert on this but I watched my grandmother putting up preserves and read a little about it.

[Appalachian Tater]

Tater - Spam is loaded with Sodium Phosphate, Potassium Chloride, Sodium Ascorbate,and Sodium Nitrate. It has more preservatives than bacon. A wopping 1740 mg of sodium per 12 0z can. I ate a bunch of turkey Spam singles that I got from a hiker box but made a point of not reading the fine print because I just didn't want to know.

[Wise Old Owl]

Tater - I did say you were RIGHT! -



I am going to have to make a few tests and see.

[Appalachian Tater]

Tater - I did say you were RIGHT! -About what? Sometimes that happens if you talk enough.

[sarbar]

how do you open the cans? Pocket knife?
I make sure the cans have 'pop tops' for easy opening :)

Btw, on the whole opening and storing discussion...my thoughts are why take the risk of food poisoning? It sucks, no one wants to be tossing their cookies wondering if they will die 20 miles from the nearest road. Carry your food in it's sealed container or dry it (such as tuna). While yes, the heavy amounts of sodium and nitrates do protect items like Spam in its packaging....it is also high in fat and will go rancid fast due to that. It has the right stuff to feed the nasties.

[take-a-knee]

Oh boy - People eat unrefrigerated real bacon bits all the time. People eat unrefrigerated pizza (with pepperoni) left out on the table on Day two- down at the college frat. What about yesterdays ham sandwich that wasn't finished?

What specific toxin is going to form inside an almost no air vacume Seal a Meal boil a bag with 2x cooked Spam by day three? How will the toxin form? Inquiring minds want to know; Tater.

Bacteria are not humans, many bacteria are obligate anerobes, that means they die in the prescense of oxygen. Clostridium perfingees (gas gangrene) comes to mind. Many use sulpher as the final electron receptor in the Kreb's Cycle to provide energy. THEY DON'T ALL NEED OXYGEN!

[take-a-knee]

Mere boiling is not enough. You have to have a high enough temperature for a long enough period of time. Often pressure is used to obtain sufficient temperatures. I'm not an expert on this but I watched my grandmother putting up preserves and read a little about it.

Exactly, the gold standard, is 250 F at 15psi for 15 minutes. This means a pressure cooker. This also means your packaging has to be able to endure this, and it means you must ascertain whether or not these conditions were realized INSIDE the packgage. As you can see, these physical requirements create jobs for people with advanced degrees and require sizeable dedicated facilities, IE manufacturing plants.

You granny could can tomatoes on the stove top by boiling because of their acidity, don't try it with meat products...not that spam is really meat.

[EMAN]

What made me think about it was that a friend of mine and I (in a somewhat drunken stupor) put a White Castle hamburger through his Seal A Meal the first day he had it. To my knowledge, it is still entombed thusly and when I last saw it, perhaps 5 years ago, it was not growing anything obviously green. Of course, it did seem a bit more plyable when squeezed.
I would never had tried this anyway merely from a sense of dread about trying to keep something like SPAM from going bad. But unless there is sufficient scientific evidence to the contrary, I'd say that dread is probably well placed and I accept.

[Critterman]

Tater - I did say you were RIGHT! -



I am going to have to make a few tests and see.

See ? You mean see if you get violently ill or die? :eek:

[Wise Old Owl]

See ? You mean see if you get violently ill or die? :eek:

Yes
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg275/MarkSwarbrick/pumpkinbarfing.jpg

[GGS2]

Anyone remember the Twinkie webcam? That thing lasted for years. But the food items either shriveled up or rotted in days. I think a Spam slice would just dry out. Anyone tried?

[Wise Old Owl]

Anyone remember the Twinkie webcam? That thing lasted for years. But the food items either shriveled up or rotted in days. I think a Spam slice would just dry out. Anyone tried?

Yea that's what I am working on. I had an almosted dated can of low sodium spam so I opened it after washing my hands. I cut it up into many slices some I put into boil bags other were fried to remove water and still others were put into a dryer. We are on day two and the ones that are simply bagged at room temp appear and smell ok. Wish i had a microscope. They are shelved at 70 degree room temp. The ones out of the drier both fried and simply dried turned out really cool.

[mark.k.watson]

Well now. After having my ass handed to me on a platter I will now be packing cans and carrying them out with me to the recycle bin. Thanks all who gave constructive criticisim.