View Full Version : how much money?
I have all the gear. And I guess lets figure I have all the guides and maps. I will be oppting to stay in my tent as often as possiable. If I do it I will be hiking with my wife. How do you think that hiking with my wife will affect the per person prices. Normally team work brings cost down.Is this true on the trail and to what extent?
What is the minimal amount of money per person to try and perform a nobo thru hike?
Lone Wolf
02-05-2008, 13:53
$3000.......
bigmac_in
02-05-2008, 13:56
You can try it with $0.00 .........
Appalachian Tater
02-05-2008, 13:59
Hiking with someone will probably not significantly lower your costs. If you would have stayed in hotel rooms alone otherwise, you would save, but many hikers share rooms anyway. The only other situations where you would save money is in paying for a shuttle that would have been solo (unlikely) or by buying larger sizes at the grocery store when resupplying (not significant) and by saving on postage and connection costs at payphones. I believe your savings would be minor.
warren doyle
02-05-2008, 14:14
Speaking for myself, I could backpack the trail for an average of $5 a day ($35 a week; $675 for 135 days). This figure does not include costs before I would step northward from Springer and after I descended Katahdin.
The recent "thru-hike cost" thread answers this question from many perspectives.
Jack Tarlin
02-05-2008, 14:22
Most people spend three to five thousand dollars while en route, tho it can certainly be done on less, especially if you are disciplined with your town visits and manage to keep them short. This figure does NOT include initial gear purchases, or the cost of getting to and from the Trail.
take-a-knee
02-05-2008, 14:22
Speaking for myself, I could backpack the trail for an average of $5 a day ($35 a week; $675 for 135 days). This figure does not include costs before I would step northward from Springer and after I descended Katahdin.
The recent "thru-hike cost" thread answers this question from many perspectives.
I would like to know something of your diet on five bucks/day. Groceries aren't cheap, especially in some dinky trail towns.
You won't be able to hike on Warren's Budget.
Appalachian Tater
02-05-2008, 14:38
It should also be noted that even Warren Doyle himself hasn't hiked on his proposed budget and isn't even planning to try.
Critterman
02-05-2008, 14:38
I would like to know something of your diet on five bucks/day. Groceries aren't cheap, especially in some dinky trail towns.
Mostly bologna. :)
warren doyle
02-05-2008, 14:43
You won't be able to hike on Warren's Budget.
That's true for the vast majority of people. But it is possible for those very few.
warren doyle
02-05-2008, 14:44
It should also be noted that even Warren Doyle himself hasn't hiked on his proposed budget and isn't even planning to try.
It should also be noted that the poster doesn't even know me.
Jack Tarlin
02-05-2008, 14:53
Mr. Doyle:
It has been pointed out elsewhere that your budget is totally unrealistic for most folks, and it is widely believed that the diet you advocated is equally unrealistic.
It should also be pointed out that most of your recent Trail miles have been accrued with vehicular support, i.e. much of your shopping is presumably done by others; your town time is limited; and most important of all, thanks to your excessive frugality, you don't stay in hostels or motels, which saves a great deal.
On the other hand, travelling this way presumably means you have automotive expenses, which you've avoided talking about.......do you pay for gas, oil changes, repairs, or is this taken care of by other folks? Simple question, how about answering it?
In short, Mr. Doyle, most folks neither want, nor would they be able to hike with this kind of budget, but your insistence that it can be done doesn't alter the fact that for most people it simply CAN'T be done, and if you were actually honest enough to throw in the true costs of hiking with a support vehicle, it would be obvious that your thru-hiking budget of less than $40.00 a week isn't merely unrealistic, but it isn't even honest. Unless, of course, one is having other people helping out on their expenses, which most folks don't do, i.e. most folks pay for their own trip.
You should probably give this one a rest.
(Prediction: Mr. Doyle will either describe this post as "Garbage!"; or he'll ignore it; or he'll respond without addressing any of my direct questions).
That's true for the vast majority of people. But it is possible for those very few.
Exactly. I think your budget could be done (and I do intend to try a 'cheapest possible thru' in the future), but I would do it a very different way than you would. Then again, I'm a health-food wierdo on the trail.
warren doyle
02-05-2008, 15:02
"You should probably give this one a rest."
How true.
Jack Tarlin
02-05-2008, 15:17
As predicted, Mr. Doyle's not interested in answering.
This is his habit when confronted with something he finds uncomfortable.
By I guess he'd have us believe that even tho he knows to the penny how much it costs him to hike every year, he doesn't know how much it costs to keep his van on the road for months at a time. These figures are evidently a mystery to him.
Um, sorry, I'm not buying it.
Either his much vaunted ultralight budget is a royal crock, or it's real, but he's not including his automorive expenses, which must be considerable.
Unless, of course, he does indeed get other people to pay for them, which now seems likely.
How very convenient. Except it's kinda like me saying "I keep my trip budget to under two grand every year except for the additional two thousand dollars that I get from other people but I don't include in my budget."
Ridiculous.
Either way, his method of travel and his alleged budget is completely unrealistic for most folks, and in that he can't even honestly discuss it or be forthcoming about it, I'm not sure why we should give it any credence.
jersey joe
02-05-2008, 15:18
Hiking with someone can certainly bring down your costs somewhat. Staying in town, a hotel room can be split, mail drops can be shared bringing down postage, and gear can be shared.
Also, the poster asked for a MINIMUM amount of money. Get off Warren's back for giving what he sees as a minimum, which is supported with the details on what his money would cover.
Jack Tarlin
02-05-2008, 15:19
I'm not on his back, Joe.
I'm merely pointing out his dishonesty on this.
His "minimum" figures are exaggerated or false.
jersey joe
02-05-2008, 15:37
I agree that his minimum figures are extreme and do not represent the average thru...however, what he proposes is very doable for someone willing to hike that sort of hike. Most people will read about the 5 dollar sneakers he proposes to buy in a thrift store and won't choose that route. It does serve as an extreme example and Warren admits it is not the norm. I guess what I keep thinking about is some college kid who has 1 or 2 thousand dollars to their name that wants to thru hike and gets put off by the fact that everyone says it cant be done, when it can.
Warren spoke for "himself." He is clearly a quirky guy, and exhibit A is his eating practically nothing but Little Debbie's fudge brownies on his 14 day hike of the John Muir Trail. Few people could hike the AT on $5/day for food, but I have no doubt Warren could. But the larger question remains. Why???
Funny that Jack keeps harping on Warren's primary mode of AT hiking (van support). My guess is, Jack probably couldn't hike the JMT in 14 days - even with Warren carrying his pack. :p
To answer the original poster's question, 2K for food should be plenty - as long as you don't want to eat in restaurants regularly. You can certainly do it on less is you scrimp, and you can certainly do it with more.
I agree that his minimum figures are extreme and do not represent the average thru...however, ...
I think what gets me is the Little Debbie food plan. I could maybe do that, but I'm way overweight. Your average thru would faint in coils after the first hundred or so.
The JMT in 14 days isn't a speed hike. It's between a JMT hiker pace and an average thru-hiker pace.
That should read:
Between a JMT hiker pace and an average PCT thru-hiker pace
The JMT in 14 days isn't a speed hike. It's between a JMT hiker pace and an average thru-hiker pace.
Yup, I'd agree with that - 100%.
jersey joe
02-05-2008, 16:00
Few people could hike the AT on $5/day for food, but I have no doubt Warren could. But the larger question remains. Why???
I couldn't do the Little Debbie food plan either, but I could do $5 per day for food. Buy in bulk. Ramen are 10cents each...lipton sides are less than 1 dollar apiece...a 50 pack of snickers bars are 20 bucks...etc.
As for why, i don't know why Warren would, but I could see someone not have any more money than that to thru hike.
Bare Bear
02-05-2008, 16:08
I tried to do it in 2006 for $10 a day and ended up spending close to $20 per day BUT it was really hot (95F at 9:35 am in NY)
and I choose to go to a lot more motels and even sharing it got expensive up north where even a dump is $60-100 a night. We stayed at a couple of B&B where we got a break or they let four hikers in a room and that was $25 a night for a wonderful place. It all depends on what you can afford I think to how much you spend. I felt the showers and ac were worth it...many didn't do it.
Jack Tarlin
02-05-2008, 16:18
Ya know, in that I can't remember hiking with Mowgli in recent years....or ever.....I'm kind of at a loss as to how he seems to know what I'm capable or not capable of doing these days. :-?
Ya know, in that I can't remember hiking with Mowgli in recent years....or ever.....I'm kind of at a loss as to how he seems to know what I'm capable or not capable of doing these days. :-?
Just tweaking you Jack. You should hike that trail someday though. I'm doing it again this summer with my youngest daughter It is simply amazing - mile after mile.
Claude Robinson
02-05-2008, 16:55
My wife and I started a thru hike last year and went almost 700 miles before we had to leave for family issues at home. For the most part everything cost us double because the money all came from the same pocket, i.e. any price quoted as per person; shuttles, hostels, motels, some campgrounds. Food for the trail, and restaurant food is double too. We will start again this year and hope to spend around $6000 for the two of us. Bogey and Slim
Jack Tarlin
02-05-2008, 16:57
You should have a great hike for that ammount! Good luck this year, guys.
OregonHiker
02-05-2008, 17:17
Ya know, in that I can't remember hiking with Mowgli in recent years....or ever.....I'm kind of at a loss as to how he seems to know what I'm capable or not capable of doing these days. :-?
Have you hiked with 99% of the AT hikers?
But yYou know what they can or can't do.
Just sayin:-?
Jack Tarlin
02-05-2008, 17:20
Please give us an example, Oregon.
When, for example, have I ever told you what you are or aren't capable of?
Just sayin. :-?
journalist
02-05-2008, 17:36
i'm getting the impression that jack doesn't like warren and vice versa. for those of us who don't know, i wonder if either would care to explain the root of their feud. just curious.
I should really stay out of this since I'm not thru-hiking but as someone with life experience I can say with certainty that under-capitalization is the cause of many failures. That includes everything from failures just out of the gate to having to call it quits in the darkness just before dawn.
Failure to plan and conversely, refusing to deviate from a plan are two other biggies.
warren doyle
02-05-2008, 17:41
"Um, sorry, I'm not buying it."
That's okay because I'm not selling it.
"Ridiculous"
Oh how true!
Please give us an example, Oregon.
When, for example, have I ever told you what you are or aren't capable of?
Just sayin. :-?
Of course, Jack is free to characterize what Warren is capable of doing for himself as dishonest or "exaggerated or false." But if someone has the temerity to suggest what Jack is capable of... then a red line has been crossed. :rolleyes:
But then again, based on Jack's initial reply to me, I'm sure that he has hiked frequently with Warren, since that seems to be the barometer that he uses to judge whether or not you are qualified to comment on someone's individual capabilities. Right Jack? ;)
Jack can turn on the juice if he wants to But If you wanna have fun while hiking the trail I suggest you bring at least 2500, and if you like to drink or have some extravagant restaurant meals while in town, or party, or indulge yourself in other little luxuries (like a hotel room once in a while...) or touristy activities along the way, need to replace damaged, lost or stolen gear, pay for a quick ticket back home for a wedding or, god forbid, a funeral or have any extra leeway at all you might want twice that or more. The more money you have the more options remain open to you. Lots of people overspend in the south, and things get more expensive in the north, throwing off their calculations.
I should really stay out of this since I'm not thru-hiking but as someone with life experience I can say with certainty that under-capitalization is the cause of many failures. That includes everything from failures just out of the gate to having to call it quits in the darkness just before dawn.
Failure to plan and conversely, refusing to deviate from a plan are two other biggies.
You are exactly right. Every year people fully capable of going the distance drop off because they simply run out of money. Whether that is under-capitalization or a lack of discipline, or some combination of the two, I'm sure it varies from case to case.
warraghiyagey
02-05-2008, 17:49
You are exactly right. Every year people fully capable of going the distance drop off because they simply run out of money. Whether that is under-capitalization or a lack of discipline, or some combination of the two, I'm sure it varies from case to case.
I fall in with the lack o fdiscipline folks.:rolleyes:
Don't forget the possibility of medical expenses.
spittinpigeon
02-05-2008, 17:54
lipton sides are less than 1 dollar apiece.
Not anymore. :( Unless you go to Super Walmart, where even Little Debbies are cheaper than the price on the box.
OregonHiker
02-05-2008, 17:55
Please give us an example, Oregon.
When, for example, have I ever told you what you are or aren't capable of?
Just sayin. :-?
Well Jack:
That's just it.
You are saying that most people can't. (and I agree)
WD is saying one can (and I agree).
You can't use the laws of probabilty to validate what will happen in all instances.
Just sayin :-?
Appalachian Tater
02-05-2008, 18:02
Not anymore. :( Unless you go to Super Walmart, where even Little Debbies are cheaper than the price on the box.
You can get generic equivalents for under a dollar. But shipping food to yourself is very expensive in terms of postage.
As far as the Little Debbies, they are $1.00 a box in every Dollar General in every little town the trail goes through in the south. If I didn't know that Warren Doyle hikes van-supported, I would be surprised that someone who is such a (self-proclaimed) cheapskate wouldn't know he could get them for $1.00 instead of the $1.25 he thinks they cost, for at least half the trail.
Bottom line, extrapolating a Little Debbie Brownie diet from a fourteen-day, below-average speed hike, to an unsupported A.T. thru-hike is plainly absurd even to non-hikers.
Jack has a valid point. Most people who have been on this site a while know how about Warren's supported hikes. The posters of this thread have only posted 35 times, a good chance they are not aware of how Warren could do it on so little. Since he would have to do 16 miles a day everyday to do it in 135 days, I assume he is talking about a supported hike, which if that is the case he should include the cost of the van, and driver. If its an unsupported hike, I'd like to see an itinerary, and a budget.
warren doyle
02-05-2008, 18:10
i'm getting the impression that jack doesn't like warren and vice versa. for those of us who don't know, i wonder if either would care to explain the root of their feud. just curious.
From the Thru-hike Cost thread:
I find it interesting that in the latest book narrative of an AT thru-hike, that one of the main internegators (and charter member of the Holy Trinity) is described as:
"The amateur Freud in me couldn't help but wonder if it all wasn't linked: eight thru-hikes in nine years, heavy drinker, chain-smoker, fixation on Jeopardy trivia, obsession with Warren Doyle. A classic addictive personality.
He had joked, "I'm a drunk with a hiking problem." Humor was his saving grace."
__________________
Freud might also offer an additional diagnosis of some sort of 'mileage envy'.
To answer your question Mowgli,
Mr.Tarlin has never walked with me on the trail. And we might have had 2-3 short face-to-face conversations over the years. I feel he has just been on a self-appointed mission to 'Save the World from Warren' since the Gathering of 2001.
It is an ill-conceived, yet continuing, mission filled with bully-like name calling, some written threats to my physical well-being, along with numerous distorted, hyperbolic negative rants.
My neck has been well-exercised by my 'turning the other cyber cheek' countless times in the last 7.5 years.
I certainly would welcome a rest.
And it appears that some other members of the WB community would to.
Appalachian Tater
02-05-2008, 18:11
And it appears that some other members of the WB community would to.
To what? :-?
Doyle, my offer of helping you find a job is still open. If you are still employed, I can help you find one with better pay and you could afford to stop eating stale popcorn off the floor.
spittinpigeon
02-05-2008, 18:13
To what? :-?
Grammar Nazi?
warren doyle
02-05-2008, 18:14
would too.
warraghiyagey
02-05-2008, 18:14
Grammar Nazi?
He is too.http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/ad/wootrock.gif
warren doyle
02-05-2008, 18:17
No thank you. I have a very fulfilling job and I never eat stale popcorn off the floor either.
Another typical response from an internegator.
Let's put it this way: a $5 per day thru hike is a helluva lot more probable than a 30-day unsupported thru hike. Never met the guy, but I don't understand the animosity toward Warren. Big ego? Maybe. Probably. If so, he's not the only hiker with that problem.
This is from WD's website explaining the cost of his 2010 hike:
As previously mentioned, the expedition is a non-commercial, not-for-profit, grassroots endeavor. No one gets paid. It will be one of the most economical ways to walk the trail. A suggested donation of $1,000 per person to cover expedition costs will be welcome before the start of the expedition (mid- April 2010).
Expedition costs are minimal and are to cover organizational costs during the preparation period and costs on the actual expedition. To cover postage, printing and phone calls during the preparation period, expedition members are asked to contribute a $20 donation per year to be paid on: May 17, 2008 AND April 6, 2009.
By the end of April 2010, expedition members will be asked to contribute a $1,000 donation per person to cover the costs of the support vehicle, general expedition expenses, and some campground fees.
It cost $1,000 just for support vehicle, general expedition expenses, and some campground fees. Food for 128 days not included. That is a long way from $675.
warren doyle
02-05-2008, 18:26
If you go to the recent 'Thru-hike Cost" thread and read carefully you will find out that my $5 a day on-the-trail budget is for a 135-day unsupported backpack on my own and not with a van-supported group.
I know I could do this.
Jack Tarlin
02-05-2008, 18:27
Please note that Mr. Doyle still hasn't answered the questions about how he finances his trips, his real budget, etc.
Instead of making ME the focus of your energies, Warren, isn't it easier just to answer simple questions?
And as to by being envious of Mr. Doyle in any way, shape or form, well this is absurd. I actually ENJOY traveling with a backpack, and don't care to sleep by my car when I'm out hiking. Nor would I welcome the chance to live on his alleged hiker diet. In short, I'm not envious of ANYTHING he does.
Oh, and we've also had plenty more than 2 or 3 encounters or conversations over the years, but if Mr. Doyle wants to lie about this, as well as about other things, there isn't much I can do about it.
Oh, and Warren, please share with us some of the "written threats" I've made to you over the years. I'd appreciate seeing the context and wording of these missives.
The only threat to your physical well-being, Mr. Doyle, would potentially be if you were as bold as to speak to me in person as you do on the Internet, or to other people. But since we all know you would never in a thousand years do this because you're too much of chicks*** candyass tro talk like this to anyone's face, then this is kind of an academic point, no?
Bye now.
Appalachian Tater
02-05-2008, 18:28
If you go to the recent 'Thru-hike Cost" thread and read carefully you will find out that my $5 a day on-the-trail budget is for a 135-day unsupported backpack on my own and not with a van-supported group.
I know I could do this.
I don't believe you could. I do believe you think you could. You have managed to convince yourself of all manner of absurdities.
I'm gonna jump in here with an observation. Every time someone posts a question regarding cost to hike the trail, Warren jumps in and claims to be able to do it for a ridiculously low amount. Lower than any rational human being would try. My observation is that he does this to 'look good' to the newbies. Some people think he could do it. I don't. He hasn't even tried so he doesn't even know. Warren, when you hike the trail for $5 a day, then come on here and tell us all how it can be done. Until then, it would behoove you to give the newbies sound advice, not advice that could potentially get them in trouble. IT is VERY irresponsible of you to tell new hikers that it can be done for $5 a day. I think you say this over and over again to try and impress the newbies. Well, I for one am not impressed with your negligent advice.
As for the poster who asked the question, I wouldn't even think about hiking the trail with less than $100 a week per person. Stay under that in the south, where things are cheaper, cause you'll probably need more than that in the north, where things are more expensive. Hope this helps. And don't listen to Warren, his budget is way too unrealistic.
This is from WD's website explaining the cost of his 2010 hike:
It cost $1,000 just for support vehicle, general expedition expenses, and some campground fees. Food for 128 days not included. That is a long way from $675.
umm that's $1000 per person?? Wow Warren, looks like you'll make out pretty good for your non profit hike........ wow and how many people will be going???
Jack Tarlin
02-05-2008, 18:40
Lilred said it better than I did. Good post.
Warren's advice is not only-unrealistic for newbies, but it's not very smart for newbies, either.
For a self-professed "educator", the simple fact is that a great deal of the advice and alleged trail wisdom that he shares with us here at Whiteblaze is not that good.
Yup. We need an All Warren & Jack thread at least.
Warren, when you hike the trail for $5 a day, then come on here and tell us all how it can be done. Until then, it would behoove you to give the newbies sound advice, not advice that could potentially get them in trouble. IT is VERY irresponsible of you to tell new hikers that it can be done for $5 a day. I think you say this over and over again to try and impress the newbies. Well, I for one am not impressed with your negligent advice.
Lilred... I don't believe Warren ever advised anyone to try a $5 a day thru hike. He's said that he could do it, is all. And I believe he's admitted that it would be a challenge. Warren doesn't need to impress the newbies. I think he's a bit beyond that.
OregonHiker
02-05-2008, 18:47
This is from WD's website explaining the cost of his 2010 hike:
It cost $1,000 just for support vehicle, general expedition expenses, and some campground fees. Food for 128 days not included. That is a long way from $675.
apples and oranges:)
i guess i could figure 4500 for me and my wife. would be sufficent enough I want to go and figure i could save that much and finsh getting the rest of my gear by the middle of april just in time.
I believe that a thru-hike is possible for only $700, not including starting gear and travel expenses. If I were to do it, it would be about a 100 day long hike, give or take a handful of days.
general budget:
4 pairs of $40 trail runners (find something that fits and is on sale)=$160
socks $40
this leaves $500 or $5/day for food and other expenses. I would only stay in a hostel if there was a work for stay oppertunity.
I would rely exclusively on maildrops, after shopping in bulk. I would have a maildrop every 5 days, on average. This maildrop would cost $9 (priority flat rate). This will work out to be cheaper than buying food along the way.
20 maildrops costs $180
Leaving $320 for 100 days of food, or $3.2 a day
assuming 2.5 pounds of food per day, given the pace.
So, can you buy 2.5 pounds of the following for $3.20 or $1.28/pound?
cost per pound bought in bulk:
lentils ($1.26/lb)
long grain brown rice ($1.12/lb)
non-instant oatmeal ($1.18/lb)
powdered milk ($5.60/lb) have to go light on this!
yellow corn meal: $1/pound (bulkfoods.com)
millet ($1.26/pound)
lentils, navy beans, and split peas are around $1/pound.
Off-brand rice costs around $0.70 a pound
I would cook 2 meals worth of food at dinner, and carry one for my first lunch. i would also cook breakfast, and make enough so that I could eat this food for my second lunch.
Note: I said Possible This is assuming that nothing major goes wrong. Since there is probably a 75% chance of something major going wrong that will cost a few hundred dollars, there is only a 1/4 chance that this would actually fly under budget.
But when your food budget is so sparse that you need to worry about what type of beans you want to buy you know that you have problems...
After doing the research regarding the above post, I'd say that $1200 is a more reasonable 'after gear' minimum possible cost.
kayak karl
02-05-2008, 19:09
. Warren, when you hike the trail for $5 a day, then come on here and tell us all how it can be done.
im working on a shopping list for trail food, 7 days, 3000 cal. a day and its cost. 5$ wont do it, but i have lived on 5$, but for a 2-4 months? too many times people on WB make statement but dont back them up or tell US how to do it. its ok, but we are curious. im attempting to do trail on 3g, but i have more to back it up if that aint enough, but these young kids have no monies to pull from. we need to be honest with them.
3000 calories a day is a very steep underestimation, at least for the type of hiking that I do. 4000-4500 is about what I burn.
kayak karl
02-05-2008, 19:23
After doing the research regarding the above post, I'd say that $1200 is a more reasonable 'after gear' minimum possible cost.
what did your thru cost in 06? not start out gear, just after start day. oh, im old 3000+ will do, i probably do half your distance in a day:)
Jack Tarlin
02-05-2008, 19:28
Scott:
With all due respect, most people could not do the Trail in 100 days (that's averaging over 21 miles per day, EVERY day) on the diet you've described. In fact, virtuallynobody could.
And I note that your budget leaves NO provision for such things as stove fuel, batteries, water purification. Or a daily multi-vitamin, which you'd sure need on a diet like this.
And forget about restaurant meals......your budget leaves nothing for the occasional soda pop, candy bar, or ice cream cone.
Your $1200.00 figure is much more realisitc tho even this would be too spartan for most folks.
Note: Nobody has said that it'd be impossible to hike the Trail on such a monastic budget and lifestyle. But very, very few folks would want to hike like this, even if they COULD hike like this, which very few people would want to do. This is why several of us have suggested that a budget/lifestyle such as this on an A.T. Thru-Hike is not wise, nor is it very sensible to suggest this option to people, especially new-comers, that it's either a realistic or a smart thing to attempt. Becuase it simply isn't.
Appalachian Tater
02-05-2008, 19:31
I
I would rely exclusively on maildrops, after shopping in bulk. I would have a maildrop every 5 days, on average. This maildrop would cost $9 (priority flat rate). This will work out to be cheaper than buying food along the way.
20 maildrops costs $180
Scott, the flat-rate boxes are probably too small for a 5 day resupply. I had to use maildrops on my hike last year and the boxes cost almost $15 each to send priority and that was the week before rates went up. My four boxes were all 6 to 8 days each.
The inside dimensions for the two boxes available are 11" x 8.5" x 5.5" and 13.625" x 11.875" x 3.375". The two boxes are different shapes to accomodate a variety of contents.
Exactly the point I was making...
Scott:
With all due respect, most people could not do the Trail in 100 days (that's averaging over 21 miles per day, EVERY day) on the diet you've described. In fact, virtuallynobody could.
And I note that your budget leaves NO provision for such things as stove fuel, batteries, water purification. Or a daily multi-vitamin, which you'd sure need on a diet like this.
And forget about restaurant meals......your budget leaves nothing for the occasional soda pop, candy bar, or ice cream cone.
Your $1200.00 figure is much more realisitc tho even this would be too spartan for most folks.
Note: Nobody has said that it'd be impossible to hike the Trail on such a monastic budget and lifestyle. But very, very few folks would want to hike like this, even if they COULD hike like this, which very few people would want to do. This is why several of us have suggested that a budget/lifestyle such as this on an A.T. Thru-Hike is not wise, nor is it very sensible to suggest this option to people, especially new-comers, that it's either a realistic or a smart thing to attempt. Becuase it simply isn't.
OregonHiker
02-05-2008, 19:39
what did your thru cost in 06? not start out gear, just after start day. oh, im old 3000+ will do, i probably do half your distance in a day:)
Jack:
Thanks for the info
But when your food budget is so sparse that you need to worry about what type of beans you want to buy you know that you have problems...
I think my 06 thru was around $55000 including airfare (to the midwest, that was around $500), medical expenses (lyme disesase in vermont where health insurance wouldn't pay much of the cost), and pretty much a total re-gearing (I started off with a bunch of unsuitable gear).
My '07 section of the AT (850 miles) cost around $1000 including airfare (that was $200 of the cost)
My PCT thru cost around $3000 including airfare/transportation (airfare was around $500. This also includes a replacement backpack that was $100 (mine didn't break, but it made me look like such a hobo that no one would pick me up hitching). On the PCT I had a 1000 mile stretch where I didn't go into town once (resupplied from resorts that were on or near the trail and immediately resumed hiking) and only ate one restaurant meal that cost under $15. When I pick up a maildrop I usually spend $5-$10 on ice cream, etc. or just random items as a courtesy to the store if they did not charge me to hold my maildrop. $700 of this cost is from shoes--I had 2 pairs that only lasted around 150 miles (the desert eats the wrong types of shoes). The other 4 got me the remaining 2350 miles.
I stayed in a place where I had to pay for lodging a total of 5 times, splitting it every time. I order my food in bulk and send out mail drops. I rarely eat out.
I'm a frugal hiker, but I don't go to extremes. I spend a lot of money on very carefully planned meals, and I also make no attempt to save money on either footwear or gear. I don't spend much money in town, I don't do drugs, and I rarely drink on the trail. I cook on wood, so I don't have to pay for fuel.
I'm currently planning my CDT thru-hike and a one-month long AT hike. I'm itemizing every single cost and will post the list. this time I am dehydrating my own beans, fruits, and vegetables, and I am making my own energy bars and just-add water meals--I don't plan to cook.
Extra zero in the cost of my 06 thru, should be $5500
kayak karl
02-05-2008, 19:56
Exactly the point I was making...
i could do the trail on 7 days of food and work my way to the other end, but why? my skills in restoration, renovation and conversions is 25 yrs + from 1800 - present would make me $ in those small towns. i think the newbies (i is one) want too know, how much? basic food, some stays, a few gear breakdowns. i lived under the boardwalk in wildwood,NJ for 5$ a day, in the day, dont want to do that again:D
Right. My point is that it would be possible to thru-hike on a very low budget. I was simply highlighting a few basics: you have to buy half-price shoes, you don't have a single dollar to spend in town, and you have so little money that you have to buy the cheapest possible beans. Worth it? Section hike and go home early. Find a way to save up more money, etc. I'm agreeing with both you, kayak, and Jack here.
Blissful
02-05-2008, 20:03
We spent about $4,000 a piece on our hike last year. But that included gear replacement on the trail also (trail runners, socks, insoles, clothing items) and hiking with a teenager. (But not the new pack and sleeping bag my hubby got me at the halfway mark.) For six month living expenses for 2, that was a bargain.
kayak karl
02-05-2008, 20:04
Right. My point is that it would be possible to thru-hike on a very low budget. I was simply highlighting a few basics: you have to buy half-price shoes, you don't have a single dollar to spend in town, and you have so little money that you have to buy the cheapest possible beans. Worth it? Section hike and go home early. Find a way to save up more money, etc. I'm agreeing with both you, kayak, and Jack here.
you young guys have the life:sunwe have the money:D
Jack Tarlin
02-05-2008, 20:11
It hasn't been said in awhile, but for newbies or 2008 people who are interested in this subject (particularly younger hikers who are looking for ways to save some money) there's lots of good info on Whiteblaze.
I'd start with Weathercarrot's excellent article in the "Articles" section of WB; also, if you use the search engine and type in such key words or phrases as "budget", "tight budget" etc. you'll probably find all sorts of stuff, including some good ideas on you can get by onless money.
I am thinking that Warren is living in the past.
There was a day when you could actually feel pretty good about yourself if you drove a car without AC and power windows. But that day is gone.
So to is the time when a hiker was allowed to do the AT without stays in motels and significant town calories.
Its hike by the numbers, now. Especially for the NOBO lemmings.
Warren is a living anachronism. And like the nail that sticks up, must be hammered down.
Or so it seems on the world-wide web.
kayak karl
02-05-2008, 20:17
It hasn't been said in awhile, but for newbies or 2008 people who are interested in this subject (particularly younger hikers who are looking for ways to save some money) there's lots of good info on Whiteblaze.
I'd start with Weathercarrot's excellent article in the "Articles" section of WB; also, if you use the search engine and type in such key words or phrases as "budget", "tight budget" etc. you'll probably find all sorts of stuff, including some good ideas on you can get by onless money.
Thank You
kayak karl
02-05-2008, 20:21
I am thinking that Warren is living in the past.
There was a day when you could actually feel pretty good about yourself if you drove a car without AC and power windows. But that day is gone.
So to is the time when a hiker was allowed to do the AT without stays in motels and significant town calories.
Its hike by the numbers, now. Especially for the NOBO lemmings.
Warren is a living anachronism. And like the nail that sticks up, must be hammered down.
Or so it seems on the world-wide web.
i resemble that remark:D
neighbor dave
02-05-2008, 20:24
:-?walking is free. food,shoes,clothes,shelter,transportation,medical issues, accessories,phone calls is apart of everyday life and should be only a very small part of the equation:-?
neighbor dave
02-05-2008, 20:34
:-?when i was younger,not that i'm ancient, i used to travel extensively around the globe. people used to ask me how much it used to cost me. i'd tell them it was cheaper than staying put and working, and it was! i had no rent or mortgage,car,or bills to pay associated with ordinary living. same could be said for thru-hiking. for example i spent 1 year circumnavigating the earth for 5 grand.:-?
neighbor dave
02-05-2008, 21:04
:-?when i was younger,not that i'm ancient, i used to travel extensively around the globe. people used to ask me how much it used to cost me. i'd tell them it was cheaper than staying put and working, and it was! i had no rent or mortgage,car,or bills to pay associated with ordinary living. same could be said for thru-hiking. for example i spent 1 year circumnavigating the earth for 5 grand.:-?
another time i spent 3 grand traveling from alaska to machu pichu then back to the northeastern u.s. mostly overland with some stops in the carribean via florida. 9 month trip
Appalachian Tater
02-05-2008, 21:07
another time i spent 3 grand traveling from alaska to machu pichu then back to the northeastern u.s. mostly overland with some stops in the carribean via florida. 9 month trip
Did you do the Darien Gap? or how did you bypass it?
neighbor dave
02-05-2008, 21:12
Did you do the Darien Gap? or how did you bypass it?
overland from ak to miami via sf,puddlejumper to trinidad another to caracas,overland down and back,puddlejumper from caracas to trinidad for carnival then to miami overkand back to the n.e.
good times for sure
Appalachian Tater
02-05-2008, 21:13
How did you find Caracas? I have been told it is not a very nice city but the person may not have been neutral.
neighbor dave
02-05-2008, 21:17
How did you find Caracas? I have been told it is not a very nice city but the person may not have been neutral.
no problem. the horror stories were plentiful when i told people there what i was doing. i saw alot of smuggling going on on that trip. from throwing bails of something out train doors to having everyone stuffing "packages" under MY seat. ha ha ha people all the time told me to be very careful it's where i learned the word cuidado:-?
Lilred... I don't believe Warren ever advised anyone to try a $5 a day thru hike. He's said that he could do it, is all. And I believe he's admitted that it would be a challenge. Warren doesn't need to impress the newbies. I think he's a bit beyond that.
Is he? I wonder.... and anytime someone posts on whiteblaze for advice, the responses to that post are just that, advice. It is not far-fetched to think someone would read his post, boasting of his 5 dollar a day hike, and think they could do it too. After all, if he can, why can't others? Some folks new to WB wouldn't have a clue to his experience or history with the trail.
It would be a shame for someone to think they could get by with a lot less than reality deems necessary. A thru-hike is a once in a lifetime shot for many people. Would be a shame if they had to drop out cause they read somewhere you could do the hike for 5 dollars a day.
It's curious, the only time I see Warren mention his low budget hike, is in a response to a newbie's question about cost. I still say he's looking for ego stroking.
Warren, you've done this enough times to know the response to your budget. Why do you keep bringing it up if not to impress the newbie??? I don't get it.
Appalachian Tater
02-05-2008, 22:13
no problem. the horror stories were plentiful when i told people there what i was doing. i saw alot of smuggling going on on that trip. from throwing bails of something out train doors to having everyone stuffing "packages" under MY seat. ha ha ha people all the time told me to be very careful it's where i learned the word cuidado:-?
Yes, I learned to pay attention when someone says "cuidado" after some close calls. Never made it to Venezuela but would like to go.
Appalachian Tater
02-05-2008, 22:14
Is he? I wonder.... and anytime someone posts on whiteblaze for advice, the responses to that post are just that, advice. It is not far-fetched to think someone would read his post, boasting of his 5 dollar a day hike, and think they could do it too. After all, if he can, why can't others? Some folks new to WB wouldn't have a clue to his experience or history with the trail.
It would be a shame for someone to think they could get by with a lot less than reality deems necessary. A thru-hike is a once in a lifetime shot for many people. Would be a shame if they had to drop out cause they read somewhere you could do the hike for 5 dollars a day.
It's curious, the only time I see Warren mention his low budget hike, is in a response to a newbie's question about cost. I still say he's looking for ego stroking.
Warren, you've done this enough times to know the response to your budget. Why do you keep bringing it up if not to impress the newbie??? I don't get it.
If newbies hiked the Warren Doyle way, they wouldn't make it past the Kennebec and if they did, they would get kicked out of Baxter.
Is he? I wonder.... and anytime someone posts on whiteblaze for advice, the responses to that post are just that, advice. It is not far-fetched to think someone would read his post, boasting of his 5 dollar a day hike, and think they could do it too. After all, if he can, why can't others? Some folks new to WB wouldn't have a clue to his experience or history with the trail.
Well, there are a lot of extreme notions bandied about on WhiteBlaze, for example, the one we hear almost every day from certain experts about how "shelters suck." And pretty soon, everyone's saying it, and all kinds of newbies from Ohio and Missouri, who've never set foot on the AT, take it as gospel.
That is, everyone dumb enough to base their opinions on a single website. ;)
OTOH, if you step outside this cloistered community, you find that there are many other opinions on matters related to hiking, and even hiking the AT in particular. WhiteBlaze isn't the font of all wisdom pertaining to the AT.
Read a book, use your brain, do some research. $5 a day is extreme, but doable, and I don't believe for a moment that Warren meant to say anything other than that.
Appalachian Tater
02-05-2008, 22:27
. $5 a day is extreme, but doable, and I don't believe for a moment that Warren meant to say anything other than that.
Then let's see him do an unsupported thru-hike of the A.T. on five dollars a day with someone trustworthy monitoring him. He's full of it.
jersey joe
02-05-2008, 22:30
Is he? I wonder.... and anytime someone posts on whiteblaze for advice, the responses to that post are just that, advice. It is not far-fetched to think someone would read his post, boasting of his 5 dollar a day hike, and think they could do it too. After all, if he can, why can't others? Some folks new to WB wouldn't have a clue to his experience or history with the trail.
It would be a shame for someone to think they could get by with a lot less than reality deems necessary. A thru-hike is a once in a lifetime shot for many people. Would be a shame if they had to drop out cause they read somewhere you could do the hike for 5 dollars a day.
A "newbie" will read what Warren says he thinks is a mimimum hike can be done for AND read what a lot of other people say in this thread about how a comfortable thru hike will cost much more. Then the newbie will determine which hike he would like to hike. I still see nothing wrong with saying it can be done. In fact, I'd be surprised if it hasn't been done already many times.
Well, there are a lot of extreme notions bandied about on WhiteBlaze, for example, the one we hear almost every day from certain experts about how "shelters suck."
Well, that's not so extreme. After all, a so-called shelter is just a permanent lean-to with some out-structures, like a privy. That sort of set-up is a clear invitation to four-legged vermin. No surprise. It is also not much shelter against wind, cold or insects. Or bears or mice. Or vagrants, or frat-boy parties. Or snores, etc. So, for any person who comes to the trail for a somewhat wild experience, shelters are prima facie not the best answer. That is not to say that they might not have their uses, which are generally acknowledged.
On the other hand, for newbies who may find tenting or tarping or shelterless camping a bit extreme, shelters provide an apparently attractive alternative, even one with some form of official sanction. Civilization in the woods, if you will. So it seems that the more experience and confidence bpers develop, the less dependent they become on the shelter system.
There are also other reasons for the shelters, as for example the systems in GSNP and in the Whites, where the shelters are the official response to environmental pressures of overuse. People beef about the inflexibility of this solution, but at least it permits people to use the trails while giving a fig-leaf of protection to the park/alpine meadows.
Now, all that aside, if a person finds permanent shelters a viable solution to trail shelter, there they are, and no-one will deny they are available for use, subject only to limitations of numbers and the undesirable factors listed above. With regard for those limitations, it is unwise to depend on shelters alone for security: an alternative system should be carried.
Where is the extreme in that?
Where is the extreme in that?
This endless repetition of "shelters suck" is strictly a Whiteblaze phenomenon.
I'm a relative newbie to cyber-hiking, but not the real thing. On the trails I've been on, you just don't hear this constant refrain. Where shelters exist, they are used. Happily, and without shame. Relative to my experience on the AT and other eastern trails, I'd say the anti-shelter sentiments expressed on WB border on the extreme, in quantity and tone.
Don't like shelters? Fine, don't use 'em. Why do folks feel inclined to share their loathing of shelters, at every opportunity, and in the most pejorative terms? What's that about? What purpose does it serve?
Does anyone really believe that a hiker, on the trail, might be incapable of deciding for himself or herself whether to use a shelter or not? :-?
jersey joe
02-06-2008, 01:12
i'm a big shelter fan myself.
This endless repetition of "shelters suck" is strictly a Whiteblaze phenomenon.
Oh, I bet you mean a Lone Wolf phenomenon.
This endless repetition of "shelters suck" is strictly a Whiteblaze phenomenon.Oh, I bet you mean a Lone Wolf phenomenon.Same difference. Whiteblaze is Wolf's crib. He calls the tunes. You're new here. You'll see. ;)
OregonHiker
02-06-2008, 03:11
Same difference. Whiteblaze is Wolf's crib. He calls the tunes. You're new here. You'll see. ;)
The "clique" is well documented and despised by some WB chiefs
Same difference. Whiteblaze is Wolf's crib. He calls the tunes. You're new here. You'll see. ;)
Just so he keeps that big bike away from me. Is he one of those who like to ride the Dragon's Tail? You Southerners have such quaint customs.
Lone Wolf
02-06-2008, 06:27
Same difference. Whiteblaze is Wolf's crib. He calls the tunes. You're new here. You'll see. ;)
crib? more like a playground. and you sound like a jealous little boy. it's just a website. maybe you should work more while at work.
Lone Wolf
02-06-2008, 06:28
Just so he keeps that big bike away from me. Is he one of those who like to ride the Dragon's Tail? You Southerners have such quaint customs.
i ain't a southerner. "dragons tail" is for crotch-rocket ridin' weenies
The "clique" is well documented and despised by some WB chiefs
Would Whiteblaze be half as interesting a site without the opinionated top ten posters?
Or would discussions sort of sputter along lethargically?
Lone Wolf
02-06-2008, 07:33
it would be like wingfoot's old trailplace.
i ain't a southerner. "dragons tail" is for crotch-rocket ridin' weenies
It takes about three lifetimes for a Canadian to become a maritimer. How long does it take a New Englander to become a Southerner?
It takes about three lifetimes for a Canadian to become a maritimer. How long does it take a New Englander to become a Southerner?
It doesn't happen. It can't.
Although I have known a couple of children born in the South to Yankee parents deliberately pick up local accents and attitudes. Otherwise, second generation is too soon.
Critterman
02-06-2008, 09:55
It takes about three lifetimes for a Canadian to become a maritimer. How long does it take a New Englander to become a Southerner?
In the 80's there was a large influx of northerners into the Dallas area. Within a short time you could buy a bumper sticker at 7-11 that said " I don't care how you did it in New York".
fiddlehead
02-06-2008, 11:01
Just read the whole thread. Great entertainment.
Some things don't change, aye?
I was surprised that no one mentioned the obvious here: Hiker boxes. They are often full of stuff that could keep you fueled although not much liked: oatmeal, rice, TVT, Hummous, etc.
I guess folks would say somebody cheated or some bs if they used a hiker box. That foods there, and many of us have met hikers who practically live out of them.
Also, how about fishing? I guess if you'd do it without buying the proper licenses, those same folks would badmouth it again.
Anyway, sure it could be done (the $5 a day thing) Hey, i live in Asia. lots of folks live on rice and fish that are practically free. (but i wouldn't call it fun)
Warren knows a lot of places to get showers or swim to get clean, as well as free meals here and there i'm sure. Whether he wants to prove it is up to him. But I imagine some people wouldn't believe him anyway.
dessertrat
02-06-2008, 11:14
It takes about three lifetimes for a Canadian to become a maritimer. How long does it take a New Englander to become a Southerner?
Not likely, chummy! Just like a Southerner will never become a Downeaster.
warren doyle
02-06-2008, 19:21
I think you say this over and over again to try and impress the newbies. Well, I for one am not impressed with your negligent advice.
And don't listen to Warren, his budget is way too unrealistic.
Well, I'm not inpressed by your analysis of why I posted in this thread.
My budget is unrealistic to most, but it can be doable by a few.
"Why waste poverty on the poor?"
Jack Tarlin
02-06-2008, 19:26
Yeah, and Everest can be climbed without oxygen, too, tho there aren't too many newbie mountain climbers that could do it.
As many people have now pointed out, your budget is totally unrealistic, for newcomers or anyone else.
Merely because something is "doable" doesn't make it a particularly wise thing to do.
warren doyle
02-06-2008, 20:16
umm that's $1000 per person?? Wow Warren, looks like you'll make out pretty good for your non profit hike........ wow and how many people will be going???
It is a suggested donation to cover expedition-related expenses such as gas, oil, repairs, insurance for the support van, group supplies and campground fees. Expedition members don't have to donate if they don't want to.
The donation amount is determined in mid-April 2010 when we know how many people will be participating and the price of gas.
Records are kept of expedition-related expenses (i.e., receipts) and at the end of the expedition any money left over is refunded to the expedition members.
People in long-distance hiking circles who have known me since 1972, or since 1982/ALDHA Gathering (of which you are not one of), know I am very frugal and very concerned about costs. One example is that the Gathering, even in its 27th year, is still only $10 for the weekend.
I have a full-time, very satisfying job that is the source of my income. I don't do the expeditions for money. I am quite comfortable with my motivations behind doing the expeditions. They have provided a positive experience to just under 100 people, over the last 32 years, and have been the most productive endeavors I could do as a social-change educator. I am looking forward to my eighth, and probably last, AT Circle Expedition in 2010.
And to answer your last question, I won't know how many people are going until our last preparation hike is over on April 5, 2010. People have a very realistic 20-day preparation period to determine whether they really want to walk the trail in 127 days with a group of people with van-support. I do not choose the members. The task and purpose of the circle expedition chooses who goes. I have no institutional/business-related quota to satisfy. We have had groups as large as 19 and as small as 7.
I will be showing 1990 AT Circle Expedition video documentary (which was unsolicited) Circle of Deams on Sat. May 17th 4-5:15pm at the Rock School at Damascus Trail Days. This gives a remarkable insight into what it is all about.
And another example for your edification: I have presented from 2-4 programs at every Trail Days since its 2nd year without compensation (21 years) and 4-6 programs at every Gathering (except 2006 - 25 years) without compensation. I also have coordinated 9 ALDHA Gatherings and co-coordinated 7 ALDHA Gatherings(including 2008), along with holding various offices from steering committe member to ALDHA Coordinator (five years) for 22-23 years, also without compensation.
In mid-February, I will be driving ten students up to the Dance Flurry weekend in Saratoga Springs for the third straight year. Is it a part of a course or a position requirement? No. Am I using this for compensatory time? No. We have our Honors Program pay for the gas for the van. I was able to secure eleven volunteer positions so we can work six hours setting up the dance venues and not have to pay the $70 registration fee and Terry, my wife, has arranged for us to sleep for free in a church hall. The only costs to the students and myself will be what we pay for meals in exchange for 3.5 days of travel (about 1,800 miles); two nights of lodging; and about 33 hours of dance, music and storytelling.
So yes "You'll make out pretty good" but definitely not in the way of your uninformed implication.
warren doyle
02-06-2008, 20:17
Lilred... I don't believe Warren ever advised anyone to try a $5 a day thru hike. He's said that he could do it, is all. And I believe he's admitted that it would be a challenge. Warren doesn't need to impress the newbies. I think he's a bit beyond that.
Exactly.
warren doyle
02-06-2008, 20:19
I am thinking that Warren is living in the past.
There was a day when you could actually feel pretty good about yourself if you drove a car without AC and power windows. But that day is gone.
So to is the time when a hiker was allowed to do the AT without stays in motels and significant town calories.
Its hike by the numbers, now. Especially for the NOBO lemmings.
Warren is a living anachronism. And like the nail that sticks up, must be hammered down.
Or so it seems on the world-wide web.
Thoughtful post (as usual).
warren doyle
02-06-2008, 20:20
Is he? I wonder.... and anytime someone posts on whiteblaze for advice, the responses to that post are just that, advice. It is not far-fetched to think someone would read his post, boasting of his 5 dollar a day hike, and think they could do it too. After all, if he can, why can't others? Some folks new to WB wouldn't have a clue to his experience or history with the trail.
It would be a shame for someone to think they could get by with a lot less than reality deems necessary. A thru-hike is a once in a lifetime shot for many people. Would be a shame if they had to drop out cause they read somewhere you could do the hike for 5 dollars a day.
It's curious, the only time I see Warren mention his low budget hike, is in a response to a newbie's question about cost. I still say he's looking for ego stroking.
Warren, you've done this enough times to know the response to your budget. Why do you keep bringing it up if not to impress the newbie??? I don't get it.
Obviously.
warren doyle
02-06-2008, 20:21
Well, there are a lot of extreme notions bandied about on WhiteBlaze, for example, the one we hear almost every day from certain experts about how "shelters suck." And pretty soon, everyone's saying it, and all kinds of newbies from Ohio and Missouri, who've never set foot on the AT, take it as gospel.
That is, everyone dumb enough to base their opinions on a single website. ;)
OTOH, if you step outside this cloistered community, you find that there are many other opinions on matters related to hiking, and even hiking the AT in particular. WhiteBlaze isn't the font of all wisdom pertaining to the AT.
Read a book, use your brain, do some research. $5 a day is extreme, but doable, and I don't believe for a moment that Warren meant to say anything other than that.
Insightful.
warren doyle
02-06-2008, 20:23
A "newbie" will read what Warren says he thinks is a mimimum hike can be done for AND read what a lot of other people say in this thread about how a comfortable thru hike will cost much more. Then the newbie will determine which hike he would like to hike. I still see nothing wrong with saying it can be done.
Precisely.
Jack Tarlin
02-07-2008, 15:15
Half a dozen posts in a row by the same guy? is this a Whiteblaze record?
You like talking to yourself that much, eh? :D
Lone Wolf
02-07-2008, 15:16
drop your hate
Jack Tarlin
02-07-2008, 15:20
Didn't you see the smiley face, Wolf?
That wasn't a hateful comment.
It was more of an amused one.
Just like this one. :D
Alligator
02-07-2008, 15:52
Half a dozen posts in a row by the same guy? is this a Whiteblaze record?
You like talking to yourself that much, eh? :DEasy Jack, he used the quote button:clap. It's honestly a great improvement. That number thing he does can be a pain flipping back and forth.
Warren, the little plus sign quotation icon on the bottom is the multiquote. You can "collect" all the posts you want to quote by clicking on those. Then hit the post reply icon.
drop your hate
Didn't you see the smiley face, Wolf?
That wasn't a hateful comment.
It was more of an amused one.
Just like this one. :D
Easy Jack, he used the quote button:clap. It's honestly a great improvement. That number thing he does can be a pain flipping back and forth.
Warren, the little plus sign quotation icon on the bottom is the multiquote. You can "collect" all the posts you want to quote by clicking on those. Then hit the post reply icon.
Like this.:D
Kirby
Lone Wolf
02-07-2008, 16:08
Didn't you see the smiley face, Wolf?
That wasn't a hateful comment.
It was more of an amused one.
Just like this one. :D
Easy Jack, he used the quote button:clap. It's honestly a great improvement. That number thing he does can be a pain flipping back and forth.
Warren, the little plus sign quotation icon on the bottom is the multiquote. You can "collect" all the posts you want to quote by clicking on those. Then hit the post reply icon.
Like this.:D
Kirby
pretty easy
Wow. They shut down the god thread but this one keeps going. And I didn't see even one personal attack on that thread (except for one against Janis Joplin that was uncalled for...). Is there a double standard or is it fear of bashpheming against the gods of hiking that keeps this thread open?
For the record...I still say 2000 bucks absolute minimum, or you'll be eatin' dehydrated mystery meat outta hiker boxes and no massive cheesburger at the hostel on the lake in the 100 mile wilderness. Take a long weekend before you leave to say goodbye to any costly vices you may have.
spittinpigeon
02-07-2008, 16:46
Is there a double standard or is it fear of bashpheming against the gods of hiking that keeps this thread open?
A little of both. Actually, a LOT of both. Once I started seeing the double standard, that's when I started picking on the mods. Speaking of which, I'd like to publicly apologize to Dixi. Really, I'm a nice guy, The Dude can tell you, we've chilled and shredded on little acoustic guitars. :D
My home forum is VICIOUS. And when I first stumbled into forums for the AT (I think traiforums was first) I had my guard down, and was quite unprepared for the A$$holes I encountered. After that it was auto-pilot.
I didn't really mean to bait you, in fact there's 300x more baiting that I could be doing, but I don't. As for the times that I do, it's just fun to play.:rolleyes:
A little of both. Actually, a LOT of both. Once I started seeing the double standard, that's when I started picking on the mods. Speaking of which, I'd like to publicly apologize to Dixi. Really, I'm a nice guy, The Dude can tell you, we've chilled and shredded on little acoustic guitars. :D
My home forum is VICIOUS. And when I first stumbled into forums for the AT (I think traiforums was first) I had my guard down, and was quite unprepared for the A$$holes I encountered. After that it was auto-pilot.
I didn't really mean to bait you, in fact there's 300x more baiting that I could be doing, but I don't. As for the times that I do, it's just fun to play.:rolleyes:Yeah, sometimes when I post in text my tone of voice is lost and no emoticon can put it back in. :p
Really, I'm a nice guy, The Dude can tell you, we've chilled and shredded on little acoustic guitars. :D
Oh yeah, and I can vouch for Beater. Trust me, you want him in your band.
For the record...I still say 2000 bucks absolute minimum, or you'll be eatin' dehydrated mystery meat outta hiker boxes and no massive cheesburger at the hostel on the lake in the 100 mile wilderness. Take a long weekend before you leave to say goodbye to any costly vices you may have.
That cheeseburger in the 100-mile wasn't an option back in the bad old days. It was SOP to do the 100-mile w/o resupply. Enjoyed it, even so. (It made arriving at Shaws that much sweeter.)
And I didn't see even one personal attack on that thread (except for one against Janis Joplin that was uncalled for...).
IMO, compared to Lucinda Williams, Janis Joplin had very little talent. You're welcome to disagree.
Footslogger
02-07-2008, 22:31
IMO, compared to Lucinda Williams, Janis Joplin had very little talent. You're welcome to disagree.
====================================
Now that's where I draw the line. "Take another piece of my heart out baby" ...
Talent is a subjective thing. Janice may not have had much talent in some people's opinion but that lady sang with every ounce of energy she had !!
'Slogger
warren doyle
02-07-2008, 22:55
Easy Jack, he used the quote button:clap. It's honestly a great improvement. That number thing he does can be a pain flipping back and forth.
Warren, the little plus sign quotation icon on the bottom is the multiquote. You can "collect" all the posts you want to quote by clicking on those. Then hit the post reply icon.
Thank you Alligator for the constructive, helpful advice. I appreciate it.
Lone Wolf
02-07-2008, 23:13
IMO, compared to Lucinda Williams, Janis Joplin had very little talent. You're welcome to disagree.
once again, JJ was just OK
once again, JJ was just OK
Oh, come on, come on, come on, come on...
Now shake it...
take another little piece of my heart...
Darryl G
02-28-2008, 14:24
Is the constant heckling of Mr. Doyle really necessary guys? I don't understand why the personal attacks on him are tolerated by the moderators of this site. Why can't you just keep it friendly?
I have known Warren personally for decades and can assure you that he's not out to mislead or impress any of you. His contributions to the hiking community over the years are immense if not unmatched. Yes, he's a bit quirky, but have you ever met a thruhiker who wasn't, lol.
Appalachian Tater
02-28-2008, 14:28
Is the constant heckling of Mr. Doyle really necessary guys? I don't understand why the personal attacks on him are tolerated by the moderators of this site. Why can't you just keep it friendly?
I have known Warren personally for decades and can assure you that he's not out to mislead or impress any of you. His contributions to the hiking community over the years are immense if not unmatched. Yes, he's a bit quirky, but have you ever met a thruhiker who wasn't, lol.He's full of it.
Darryl G
02-28-2008, 14:39
Yes, I'm sure he's quite full of it by now, yet he still exercises restraint in his replies to those who find it necessary to assinate his character at every opportunity. Such personal attacks really detract from an otherwise excellent site IMHO.
I have all the gear. And I guess lets figure I have all the guides and maps. I will be oppting to stay in my tent as often as possiable. If I do it I will be hiking with my wife. How do you think that hiking with my wife will affect the per person prices. Normally team work brings cost down.Is this true on the trail and to what extent?
What is the minimal amount of money per person to try and perform a nobo thru hike?$3000 per person, plus an extra $4000 per wife.
You have to treat them all equal.
That means equal with each other, but always better than yourself. ;)
Darryl G
02-28-2008, 16:30
Oh, for the record, I hiked the AT for about $400 when I did it in 1983 (about $3.50/day) but I already had all the gear i needed. The $400 included food, lodging and postage for mail drops. I don't recall a single motel stay and only a few meals were purchased in towns. I purchased the bulk of my food prior to the trip at a food warehouse and bought my gorp supplies from a health food co-op in bulk.
Blissful
02-28-2008, 16:37
Oh, for the record, I hiked the AT for about $400 when I did it in 1983 (about $3.50/day)
Those were the days...sigh.
Curious what that would be now with inflation, etc. Might be one of those $2000 dollar hikes.
Speer Carrier
02-28-2008, 16:39
I'm being a little facetious here, but also a little serious. If you have to ask what the minimum cost is, you probably can't afford it. Rather than do a complete thru, why not do half and budget a little more per day/week so you and your wife are not on a shoe string. I'd think you'd enjoy the hike much more if you didn't have to worry every day about how much money was being spent.
$3000.......
HOW WOULD YOU KNOW?
warren doyle
02-28-2008, 19:30
Is the constant heckling of Mr. Doyle really necessary guys? I don't understand why the personal attacks on him are tolerated by the moderators of this site. Why can't you just keep it friendly?
I have known Warren personally for decades and can assure you that he's not out to mislead or impress any of you. His contributions to the hiking community over the years are immense if not unmatched. Yes, he's a bit quirky, but have you ever met a thruhiker who wasn't, lol.
Thanks for your kind and reasonable thoughts/feelings. I appreciate it.
Yes, I'm sure he's quite full of it by now, yet he still exercises restraint in his replies to those who find it necessary to assinate his character at every opportunity. Such personal attacks really detract from an otherwise excellent site IMHO.
It is easy to exercise restraint when I consider the source (s).
hootyhoo
02-28-2008, 19:36
When you team with someone that does not share your bank account your costs can go down, but when you share the money it seems that the cost would go up - now you gotta feed two, whether you stay in the tent or not.
David@whiteblaze
08-02-2009, 15:34
When you team with someone that does not share your bank account your costs can go down, but when you share the money it seems that the cost would go up - now you gotta feed two, whether you stay in the tent or not.
He probably meant that your cost per-person will go down, not neccisarily overall cost. (Unless of course, you plan on about a week of down time for every trail town until your partner talks you down for reason of cost.
Snowleopard
08-02-2009, 17:12
When I was 30 or 35 I could probably have hiked the AT for $5/day in 2009 dollars (not counting transportation to Springer and from Katahdin, medical emergencies, etc.) I didn't do it then, and I'm sorry I didn't make the time for it. I was certainly eating on $1/day or less at home then. I'd probably be doing a diet similar to the lentil, rice, oatmeal diet that ScottP lists.
Now, I'm 65 and I doubt that I could do that now (or want to).
Until I joined WB, I didn't know what a zero day was and wouldn't have thought of taking as many in town zeros as most thru-hikers take nowadays.
Sky.King
08-02-2009, 17:31
Something else that has to be taken into consideration is .. the bills. If the bills don't get paid while you're gone, the phone, the gas, the electricity .. all that kinda stuff will get cut off. Then there's eviction, lol. If you live alone, the cost of NOT being home can be MORE than the cost of the hike itself.
When I go, I plan on havin a LOT of personal time .. doin the soul searchin thing and all that; but whether you plan on it or not, you will end up socializing with others on the trail and in the towns. Lmao, no idea how that last part creeped in there.
Different Socks
08-03-2009, 20:58
For the record, I thru-hiked the AT in 1992 and again in 2001. Both times I did the trail for about $2250.00. I had all my gear before the hikes, splurged once in a while and stayed in motels, camps, whatever was in the book, ate in restaurants, made frequent stops at stores at road crossings. At the end of both hikes I had very little money left.
The biggest sum i spent was about 3000$ :rolleyes: