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A-Train
02-07-2008, 15:04
I haven't followed REI's catalogue history, but it was somewhat disconcerting to see such a heavy emphasis and presence of the bigger mainstream companies in the Spring 08' catalogue: Adidas, Nike, Puma, Asics, etc. I realize the complexity of business has changed and merging/buy outs are a way of life. Salomon is owned by Adidas, Mt. Hardwear and Montrail by Columbia, The North Face owned by Vanity Fare, etc.

Does this anger you? Or do you just accept it as part of life? Has the change in focus by stores like REI and EMS affected your direction of where to buy gear?

As gear is mass produced in China, many of our favorite gear items have decreased in quality. I personally see it as another reason to buy from the smaller companies who are still producing goods in the US with quality and better customer service.

Will you continue to support the bigger stores because of convenience?

greentick
02-07-2008, 15:12
I buy alot of clothes and misc outdoors items from their outlet site, mainly because I live near one of their stores and shipping is free. That will change in a couple of weeks when I move away. I have tried shifting my business to USA made/based if possible for my big ticket items - ULA pack and WM sleeping bag for example. I am going to make more stuff myself.

Phreak
02-07-2008, 17:06
I rarely shop REI these days. I found better outfitters to meet my needs.

snowhoe
02-07-2008, 17:19
I live in denver and there is only about 25 REI,s in one block. I do like some of the stuff they carry. It does make me mad that nike and puma are trying to get into the whole hiking thing.Hey there you go you can get a sponser from nike and hike the A.T. Man do I have great ideas or what?

Peaks
02-07-2008, 17:24
I wonder if REI is getting further away from their roots. They appear to be carrying much more gear for adventure sports like runners. And of course, like other name brand stores, they are carrying more and more clothing.

A-Train
02-07-2008, 17:54
I wonder if REI is getting further away from their roots. They appear to be carrying much more gear for adventure sports like runners. And of course, like other name brand stores, they are carrying more and more clothing.

Yeah similar to how EMS has tried to appeal more to the lifestyle wear and the casual outdoors person, and with a newer focus on kayaking/boating.

Mags
02-07-2008, 19:20
I hate sound like a broken record BUT....

1) Hard good have a low profit margin
2) Soft good (i.e. apparel) have a high profit margin
3) Less people are actually into the outdoors and are more into front country type activities
4) Backpacking and camping have decreased in popularity (day hiking has plateaued )
5) Done-in-a-day activities have increased (trail running, mtbiking, etc)

What does that all mean? Large outdoor retailers are selling more of the outdoors as a lifestyle and less of gear. What gear they do sell are aimed more at people who want to be home in time to go salsa dancing or something.

It is a joke here in Boulder that you can't just go on a hike. You have to go on a hike, then go salsa dancing and then go to your Mindful and Meaningful Meditation Yoga session....

A joke..but I think that is why overnight activities are declining. People want to squeeze in EVERYTHING into an increasingly busy lifestyle.

And the gear/apparel reflects that.

BR360
02-07-2008, 19:31
Look, REI's situation is like this: if you ran a lemonade stand for a living and your family counted on you to provide for them, and people started asking you for orangeade, and slowed down on buying the lemonade because it was too tart for their taste, but really wanted orangeade, you'd find a way to give them orangeade. Now, you might have "lemonade tastings" and other educational offerings because you relieve believe in the "way of lemonade." But you'd still sell orangade to feed your family.

That's what they are doing with changing their product offerings. Just trying to "feed their family" given today's consumers. (Consumers are always fickle sheep. Just look at the ever changing mainstream fashions through the centuries...

A-Train
02-07-2008, 20:10
:)
Look, REI's situation is like this: if you ran a lemonade stand for a living and your family counted on you to provide for them, and people started asking you for orangeade, and slowed down on buying the lemonade because it was too tart for their taste, but really wanted orangeade, you'd find a way to give them orangeade. Now, you might have "lemonade tastings" and other educational offerings because you relieve believe in the "way of lemonade." But you'd still sell orangade to feed your family.

That's what they are doing with changing their product offerings. Just trying to "feed their family" given today's consumers. (Consumers are always fickle sheep. Just look at the ever changing mainstream fashions through the centuries...

Nothing wrong with providing the Orangeade, if that's what the people want. Just why can't they resist the urge to water it down with crappier ingredients?? (To save money, duh :))

I think I know the answers, it's just sad to see it happen. Like I said, try and support the guy who's still stiching gear in his basement, even if you've gotta pay a little more for it.

A-Train
02-07-2008, 20:16
I hate sound like a broken record BUT....

1) Hard good have a low profit margin
2) Soft good (i.e. apparel) have a high profit margin
3) Less people are actually into the outdoors and are more into front country type activities
4) Backpacking and camping have decreased in popularity (day hiking has plateaued )
5) Done-in-a-day activities have increased (trail running, mtbiking, etc)

What does that all mean? Large outdoor retailers are selling more of the outdoors as a lifestyle and less of gear. What gear they do sell are aimed more at people who want to be home in time to go salsa dancing or something.

It is a joke here in Boulder that you can't just go on a hike. You have to go on a hike, then go salsa dancing and then go to your Mindful and Meaningful Meditation Yoga session....

A joke..but I think that is why overnight activities are declining. People want to squeeze in EVERYTHING into an increasingly busy lifestyle.

And the gear/apparel reflects that.


Great post. Definatelty got the feeling REI was targeting the runner/dayhiker/active weekend person who's on the go and wants to do everything. And that's where all that lifestyle yogi clothing comes in...

I'm sure backpacking isn't the most glorious of profitable industry to market. It lacks that surge of adrenaline and energy that snowboarding, rock climbing and Mtn Biking have. Guess that's why although we think long distance hiking is great, it will never be in the X-games and people like Skurka are the closest thing to endorsed athletes.

But, that is probably a good thing for the rest of us.

RedneckRye
02-07-2008, 23:44
Great post. Definatelty got the feeling REI was targeting the runner/dayhiker/active weekend person who's on the go and wants to do everything. And that's where all that lifestyle yogi clothing comes in...

I'm sure backpacking isn't the most glorious of profitable industry to market. It lacks that surge of adrenaline and energy that snowboarding, rock climbing and Mtn Biking have. Guess that's why although we think long distance hiking is great, it will never be in the X-games and people like Skurka are the closest thing to endorsed athletes.

But, that is probably a good thing for the rest of us.

Meeting Skurka in person at Kennedy Meadows on the PCT in '06 was one of the most hilarious experiences of that hike for me. A complete tool. His ego was about 4 times the size of his pack, and probably the heaviest thing he was carrying. And whether or not anyone wanted his advice on lightening their pack, we got it.
Sorry about the drift away from REI...

Chache
02-07-2008, 23:50
They all turn into clothing stores. Look at LL Bean

Mags
02-08-2008, 12:34
Meeting Skurka in person at Kennedy Meadows on the PCT in '06 was one of the most hilarious experiences of that hike for me.



I can't speak for Andy on the trail, but having had beers with him a few times now, I found him a good guy.

He is enthusiastic and comes from the northeast. We northeast transplants tend to be overly exuberant at times with our opinions. ;)

In all seriousness, I can't speak for your experience, but I did find him to be an agreeable enough guy. Any guy I share a pint with, I can't speak ill of. :)

His recent slideshow on The Great Western Loop showed him to have a love of the outdoors.

Again, just my experience.

Mags
02-08-2008, 12:39
I'm sure backpacking isn't the most glorious of profitable industry to market.


Plus most backpackers (ultralight, traditional or somewhere in between) tend to buy little gear overall. Once we get a sleeping bag, shelter, stove and pack the purchases are limited. We just don't spend as much money compared to more gear intensive activities. Replacing socks and shoes every so often is what most people do once the big items are purchased.

I don't blame the retailers, they are just catering to what the clients want.

Outdoor magazines reflect this trend as well.

sherrill
02-08-2008, 13:11
I think that they're just using a sensible business model. Not every store sells the same items. My wife and I went to the Anchorage store, it was stocked with mostly fishing and hunting gear.