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clured
02-08-2008, 21:56
So, I don't want to put on a tie and work some boring investment banking internship this summer, but I'm a bit low on cash for a big hike.

What about the PCT, 90 days, $1000? Doable? Zero hotels/luxury, basically just spending money on cheap-ass, junk food resupplies.

What do you think?

A-Train
02-08-2008, 22:12
Not impossible, but HIGHLY unlikely. I spent about 4.5 times that much but splurged.

I'm sure you've done the math, but 1000 bucks is something like 40 cents a mile. Not much. You'd have to cover to and from trail expenses, hope you don't get hurt, sick, need to go home for a family issue, don't need to replace/fix gear. Have you gotten health insurance figured out or just rolling the dice? What happens when it rains in Washington and is ice-cold and you've got no money for lodging? It's not like the AT where you can hop in a shelter and dry out. When it rains on the PCT, it can be miserable. If you ever HAVE to get lodging, it's expensive out west. Resupply is more expensive out there. Even for junk food, if you're buying at the resorts, you'll pay insane price gouging.

And 90 days. This is VERY difficult, not because of the miles you have to cover, but because of the conditions. If this is a high snow year, you won't want to enter KM too early, but if you start late you'll be hitting horrible heat in May and June in the desert. There were 2 or 3 people who hiked it that quick last year but they were definately the exception. It was humorous reading how a few folks were misreble and ready to be done in the last registers.

Not trying to be a downer, just realistic. If you think you can, go for it. But your chances of failing are pretty high with that little amount of time and money. Why not just start at Kennedy Meadows, hike to Canada and enjoy yourself. There is SO much to see out West, I'd be a shame to have to hike 30+ miles EVERY day.

CrumbSnatcher
02-08-2008, 22:16
i was just getting ready to say ask a-train,he might not of told you what you want to hear. but he has your best intrest in mind. keep on it though. find a way, and have a great hike. s*** beg, borrow, and steal. you know what i mean!

clured
02-08-2008, 22:19
Thanks for the input A-Train.

Obviously it wouldn't be a pleasure-hike. More of a can-I-do-it. In terms of mileage, I'm pretty sure that I could manage. I averaged 26.5 last summer on the AT, and from what I hear its not uncommon for people to walk 5-10 more miles per day on the PCT, and I would need 29.5 for a 90-day hike.

What you say about miserable rain is good to know. I think I would take a slightly more substantial shelter than the tarp I carried last summer. I'm thinking the Six Moons Designs Gatewood Cape. Anyone know what the unsupported speed record is? If I'm trying to squeeze it into a college summer, maybe I should just go for the kill?

A-Train
02-08-2008, 22:22
Few more ideas.

The PCT has only about 5 hostels on the whole trail, with a few campgrounds, so your showers and laundry are gonna be really few and far behind. Are you cool without washing for weeks at a time in nasty heat?

Going off that there aren't a lot of hiker boxes, and not all were well stocked.

You may wanna PM "Chris" from this site, or look him up and check out his website. He hiked it in about 100+ days and his friend Pony Express hiked it in around 90 days. I believe he's on trailjournals.

fiddlehead
02-08-2008, 23:32
"Wall" (Raymond Greenlaw) did it totally unsupported in 2003 in 83 days i believe.
That was a new record at the time.
I believe Squeaky broke it 2 years ago
I believe you could do your 90 day time schedule if you really wanted to, but the $1,000 would be tougher possibly.

One or the other, but not both IMO

ARambler
02-08-2008, 23:53
what was your trail name, vida, and budget in 07? Have you answered (or made) your own question yet?
Rambler

clured
02-09-2008, 01:47
what was your trail name, vida, and budget in 07? Have you answered (or made) your own question yet?
Rambler

Trail name was DQ, total budget probably somewhere around $3000. BUT, I spent about $500 at Waynesboro on new gear, and spent lots of nights in hotels/buying overpriced food in towns. Don't get me wrong; I certainly am not underestimating how nasty it could get on $1000, just trying to see if people think it's feasible.

What is a vida? What do you mean have I answered my own question?

EWS
02-09-2008, 03:59
Feasible, totally. Probable, unlikely.

ScottP
02-09-2008, 12:55
Suck it up and get some extra work

I think Tatu-Jo beat squeakey's record last year, and he's trying to do it faster this year.

breaking a record on your first thru-of a trail is not very feasible.

Hiking the PCT on $1000 is impossible if you have to count the travel expenses, the gear you'll need, etc.

90-100 days is not hard for a PCT thru, I don't think you'll have a problem doing that if you want to.

If you really don't want to put on a tie go wait tables until the end of may then start hiking.

clured
02-09-2008, 13:32
Suck it up and get some extra work

I think Tatu-Jo beat squeakey's record last year, and he's trying to do it faster this year.

breaking a record on your first thru-of a trail is not very feasible.

Hiking the PCT on $1000 is impossible if you have to count the travel expenses, the gear you'll need, etc.

90-100 days is not hard for a PCT thru, I don't think you'll have a problem doing that if you want to.

If you really don't want to put on a tie go wait tables until the end of may then start hiking.

Scott, of course your advice is the best; I would work more if I had the time, but I'm a full time student with a really heavy courseload, and anything more than my currrent 10-hours a week campus job would be undoable.

I'm looking into some options for short term, high paying spring break jobs, but that would mean staying on campus and working about 10 hours a day, but what the heck, it may well be worth it.

What is Tatu-Jo's record? I don't really care that much, but if I hike this summer shooting for 90ish days, it would be nice to know what the standard is if things go well and I decide to go for it.

A-Train
02-09-2008, 13:41
Scott, of course your advice is the best; I would work more if I had the time, but I'm a full time student with a really heavy courseload, and anything more than my currrent 10-hours a week campus job would be undoable.

I'm looking into some options for short term, high paying spring break jobs, but that would mean staying on campus and working about 10 hours a day, but what the heck, it may well be worth it.

What is Tatu-Jo's record? I don't really care that much, but if I hike this summer shooting for 90ish days, it would be nice to know what the standard is if things go well and I decide to go for it.

Tatu Joe's record is 79 days, 21 hrs as per PCT-L archives. Joe posted over there quite a bit in August 07' and didn't paint a pretty picture of his struggle to obtain the record, tho this is not my cup of tea.

It's worth noting that he had other PCT thru-hikes before this attempt as did Squeaky and Scott Williamson and Flyin'Brian. ScottP's advice not to attempt a record on your first thru of a trail is very sound.

I believe Tatu passed me while I was climbing Whitney. You won't be able to hike Whitney, see Devil's Postpile, Yosemite Valley, or any other side trip if your hell bent on a record.

rafe
02-09-2008, 14:19
It's worth noting that he had other PCT thru-hikes before this attempt as did Squeaky and Scott Williamson and Flyin'Brian. ScottP's advice not to attempt a record on your first thru of a trail is very sound.

Not just sound but kinda obvious. After Ward Leonard flew by me in TN, I caught up with him a few minutes later at a watering hole. It occurred to me that he knew that watering hole was there from prior experience. That sort of knowledge could be critical in a speed-hike attempt. Ward wasn't just physically fit -- he was hiking light and knew every feature of the trail.

World-class ski racers don't go down the course "blind." They have a good mental picture of it at the start gate.

TwoForty
02-09-2008, 15:25
I might take some flak for this, but the ends of the trail are kind of arbitrary. Little more than political lines in the sand (well, Mexicao does have a wall). If you have limited time and money, a section hike would be a good idea. Hike as fast or slow as you want and see what you want. I guarantee you will probably want to go back and do more once you graduate.

chris
02-09-2008, 16:50
I can't really add a whole lot here. But, I would say that a section hike is a better idea than a thruhike on limited funds. As you get older, the opportunities become less. So, make this one count. Either go this year on a section, or go next year on a thru. Just make sure you go, and go soon.

By the way, my thru in 2003 was 105 days and I spent about $3000, not including gear that still worked at the end (pack, tarp, etc), but including transit to and from Chicago. Pony Express hit 100 days on the nose. So, it is pretty do-able, but you would need to really roll it up. 90 days is a much different story, though. An academic summer thruhike can be done, but forget about taking the 30+ zero days that many hikers do.

jersey joe
02-09-2008, 17:29
Anyone know where to read about Tatu Joe's record hike? A journal or something?
A-Train, you mentioned PCT-L...is this a site?
Link?

A-Train
02-09-2008, 22:50
http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l

Try that Joe, and then you'll click on "Archives" I believe, which will bring you to a month by month list of posts. Tatu Joe posts sometimes, but he posted a lot in Aug/Sept 07' after his finish.

It's actually a mailing list with a lot of activity, and a lot of bickering (like this site) but also a lot of REALLY experienced west coasters. I don't suscribe because the emails can be overwhelming and fill up your box. I just occassionally go over and browse for interesting topics. However you have to register to post, so I just lurk.

Frosty
02-09-2008, 22:59
What is a vida? He meant vitae, or curriculum vitae.

It means your knowledge, skills and experience with respect to a specific occupation or endeavor.

clured
02-10-2008, 00:06
He meant vitae, or curriculum vitae.

It means your knowledge, skills and experience with respect to a specific occupation or endeavor.

Oh, ok. I guess I don't really have one? I did the AT last summer in 84 days, so being able to walk the paces isn't like a total pipe dream or anything. That's the only backpacking experience I have, but as far as I can tell its mostly just a physical issue, not really a skills issue. Maybe things are different out west?

I've been looking into getting extra work to pad out the budget. What about $2000/78 days? :D

jersey joe
02-10-2008, 01:38
http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l

Try that Joe, and then you'll click on "Archives" I believe, which will bring you to a month by month list of posts. Tatu Joe posts sometimes, but he posted a lot in Aug/Sept 07' after his finish.

Thanks A-Train.

minnesotasmith
02-10-2008, 01:47
The worse your diet, the slower you'll end up going in the long run, all else being equal.

Rockhound
02-10-2008, 01:47
clured, I thought you made plenty of money as a spelling coach. By the way, when I go thru hiking, I wont be through hiking until fall. Sea ewe at trale daze.

ScottP
02-10-2008, 03:49
Well, the PCT does require an element of skill (snow, desert, etc.) and an element of luck(snow, water caches, resupply hitches, etc.)

Also, knowledge of the trail is a way bigger deal on a trail with water issues, such as the PCT. Which springs are worth going off trail for? Do you know which side-trails are flat and easy. and which ones are steep and not worth taking? Do you know which sections are exposed, and which sections you can carry 5 lbs less of water for? Do you know exactly how much water it takes for you to hike a 40 mile dry stretch? Do you know if you can trust the possible water source in the middle of that dry stretch, given the precipitation that year, and the vague information in the water report, etc? Do you know how elevation is going to affect you? Do you know how your personal nutritional needs will change given desert/alpine conditions?

There's lots of blind intersections on the PCT (there aren't markers anymore), and lots of the intersecting trails aren't even on the map. Usually, you can figure out which trail is the PCT from the footprints or arrows drawn by other hikers, but once you get ahead of the pack you need to use your maps. It might take 10 minutes a day, but that adds up to a lot of possible mileage over 2.5 months.


If you only have $1000 you won't have the budget for the footwear/food you'll need to break the PCT record, plus, you'll be racing Tatu-Jo, who has an outrageous amount of PCT miles and is going for the record again this year.

Tatu-Jo started the PCT very overweight and out of shape last year, and also took 3 days off to go to Scott Williamson's Wedding. He plans to do the PCT in 70 days in 2008, and knowing him he likely will. I was very interested in speed records for a while, until I came to a (possibly false) conclusion:

You can test and push your limits on a speed hike, but what happens when you hit your limit? Once your willpower is strong enough, there's only one thing that is going to stop or slow you down: the very real possibility of a permanent debilitating injury. I still like hiking big miles, but if you want a sport based on competition hiking is the wrong place to look. Run ultras or marathons.

A 90 day thru of the PCT would not be tough if you wanted to do it, but it won't be close to the record. But, who cares?

Matteroo
02-10-2008, 04:42
i'll chime in from meeting you at Eagle's Nest shelter in PA, DQ.
Why not take up a section hike and really enjoy the PCT. Whoever said you should train for and do ultramarathons or whatever was spot-on. You seem to like competition (with yourself?) or an extreme challenge-but man what a good time you miss in the process taking that attitude towards hiking. If I can paraphrase a line from you:

"I want to finish the AT by such-and-such date, so that I have time for a vacation before I have to go back to school"

The rest of us (and we had a full house that night-9 or 10 of us in the shelter) laughed and joked about that line quite a bit once you ate your peanut butter with your fingers at 4:30am and left. I know all the HYOH, and so be it, but if there was any way to insert perspective into a person's brain...relax and take in whats around. The AT seemed like an item on a checklist at a grocery you wanted to cross off.

clured
02-10-2008, 16:02
HYOH

Amen! I think I have different objectives. A lot of people go hiking in search of community, I go hiking to escape community (friends, girlfriend, family, teachers, coaches, deans, etc.). I like long hikes because I can be alone and think about things, and I like fast hikes because I am restless and can't wait to see what's over the next mountain.

I guess the cool thing is to sleep in and hang out with a big group on the trail, but I just don't want to. Maybe I would have felt differently if I had done some of the drugs there that night?

Matteroo
02-10-2008, 17:12
I went hiking to hike. The tight knit community can be nice too. I wouldn't place that as a rule-I need my alone time too-and some groups/people you just don't want to be around-I ran into them too-and just didn't spend time around them. Indeed you may have felt differently if you had puffed that eve-it certainly wouldn't have been the end of the world. :P or would it? I didn't partake in such but think in the evening at a shelter with the community is probably one of the finest places to give it a shot if one ever does in life.

you spoke with the other speed hiker about how it would be nice to have a partner, and that you should give hiking together a shot- Then you couldn't wait a few minutes for him to finish getting ready in the morning. :P That was pretty funny too.

like the spelling thread, i think when you take things/yourself too seriously regardless of 'goal/desire/objectives/perspective', it is a real hoot. Does the Don Quixote connection to yourself not present a clear enough mirror to look at and laugh about? Christopher McCandless also comes to mind. both stories don't end well.

clured
02-10-2008, 20:25
I went hiking to hike. The tight knit community can be nice too. I wouldn't place that as a rule-I need my alone time too-and some groups/people you just don't want to be around-I ran into them too-and just didn't spend time around them. Indeed you may have felt differently if you had puffed that eve-it certainly wouldn't have been the end of the world. :P or would it? I didn't partake in such but think in the evening at a shelter with the community is probably one of the finest places to give it a shot if one ever does in life.

you spoke with the other speed hiker about how it would be nice to have a partner, and that you should give hiking together a shot- Then you couldn't wait a few minutes for him to finish getting ready in the morning. :P That was pretty funny too.

like the spelling thread, i think when you take things/yourself too seriously regardless of 'goal/desire/objectives/perspective', it is a real hoot. Does the Don Quixote connection to yourself not present a clear enough mirror to look at and laugh about? Christopher McCandless also comes to mind. both stories don't end well.

Oh Matteroo, you're so sagely and wise!

I take myself too seriously? I've never, ever taken myself seriously enough to outright trash someone else's chosen style of hiking. This thread is really horribly typical of WhiteBlaze; I post a completely un-"loaded" query about a potential fast-paced hike, and get yelled at for...what exactly?

What is it to you? You clearly have no interest in hiking as sport. That's 100% fine with me. I hope that you hike in exactly the way that makes you happiest. I know I do...

I'm glad I entertained the drug users at Eagle's Nest. It really amazes me how eager people were to encourage me to fail on my attempt. Can you imagine if I told someone that they should abandon their dream of hiking the whole trail and adopt my way of hiking?

fiddlehead
02-10-2008, 22:34
Well said Clured. good luck on the hike! keep us posted if you can.

by the way, "Wall" wrote a book about that speed hike he did of the PCT in '96. I have some copies for sale but they are not on my new website yet. PM me if interested.

ScottP
02-11-2008, 12:20
"Amen! I think I have different objectives. A lot of people go hiking in search of community, I go hiking to escape community (friends, girlfriend, family, teachers, coaches, deans, etc.). I like long hikes because I can be alone and think about things, and I like fast hikes because I am restless and can't wait to see what's over the next mountain.

I guess the cool thing is to sleep in and hang out with a big group on the trail, but I just don't want to. Maybe I would have felt differently if I had done some of the drugs there that night?"

We have a lot in common as far as hiking goes, clured. Sock away some extra cash, do the PCT in 90 days and get as much recon as you can for a future record attempt.

Sly
02-11-2008, 12:22
The worse your diet, the slower you'll end up going in the long run, all else being equal.

Which begs the question... what did you eat? :p

Frosty
02-11-2008, 12:55
I know all the HYOH, and so be it, but ... ... but if you don't hike it my way you cannot enjoy yourself because everyone must either enjoy what I enjoy or something is wrong with them.

THERE IS NO "BUT" AFTER HYOH.

warren doyle
02-11-2008, 16:15
Enjoyed meeting you in August near Horseshoe Canyon. Your head and heart seemed to be in the right place. It will be quite the accomplishment for you to complete two long distance trails (AT, PCT) and not miss any school during your four undergraduate years. I wish you well on your 'quest'.

clured
02-11-2008, 17:19
I was very interested in speed records for a while, until I came to a (possibly false) conclusion:

You can test and push your limits on a speed hike, but what happens when you hit your limit? Once your willpower is strong enough, there's only one thing that is going to stop or slow you down: the very real possibility of a permanent debilitating injury. I still like hiking big miles, but if you want a sport based on competition hiking is the wrong place to look. Run ultras or marathons.


Scott, I've wondered about this too. Really "selling out" in most normal endurance sports (rowing for me) isn't dangerous, it's actually really good for your heart to hit the ceiling. But with hiking it's not just aerobic physiology, its literal biomechanics - the makeup of your body - that gets taxed with repeat 35-40 milers.

Do you think it's possible to walk yourself into permanent injury? I mean, assuming I'm not a complete masochist, and that I don't hike out on active injuries (as opposed to just aches and pains), do you think it's possible for me to really ***** up my body? My experience from last summer was that things have to get really, really, really bad before you actually do damage; I was convinced that I had blown out my left knee 100 miles in (descents were tear-jerking excruciating), but a week later everything felt strong and great.

Mags
02-11-2008, 19:08
"It's not the years, honey, it's the mileage."
--Indiana Jones

I think it all depends on how often you do the hikes that have constant aches and pains.

The human body is an amazing thing. How we can bounce back, adapt and thrive.

But all those hard miles add up.

My Dad is a sheet metalist. He has been doing it for almost 40 yrs. In his 20s, 30s and into his early 40s, he was fine. Around the time he was 45 or so, he had his first carpal tunnel surgery. Not quite 60 (He's 57 yrs old), he is on 4th hand surgery. Four surgeries in about 15 yrs.


So...all those aches and pains are inconsequential. But if someone is CONSTANTLY pushing themselves to the point where they have constant pain.. Well, draw your own conclusions.

Jim Adams
02-12-2008, 00:34
I don't think that the PCT requires more skills but it does require a little more info about altitude.....it is way more expensive than the A.T. though.

geek

Footslogger
02-12-2008, 00:38
So, I don't want to put on a tie and work some boring investment banking internship this summer, but I'm a bit low on cash for a big hike.

What about the PCT, 90 days, $1000? Doable? Zero hotels/luxury, basically just spending money on cheap-ass, junk food resupplies.

What do you think?
==============================

If I thought I could hike the PCT for $1,000 I might have hiked this year instead of next.

Truly ...regardless of the length of a PCT hike I don't see it happening for $1,000 - - especially after my 2003 AT experience.

'Slogger