camping in the snow

[Peanut]

I know that it's realistic that I will see some white stuff while I'm out there. I haven't camped in it, though, and was wondering if there are any tips...did most people stick to the shelters in that case. If that's not a possibility, what should I know? Do I stomp out a flat area or do I just set my tent?

[Egads]

I have tent camped on snow and put a vapor barrier down first. No problem.

Egads

[Footslogger]

Don't make a habit of it any more ...but as a youngster in Ohio we did a lot of winter camping and often set our tents up in the snow. Try and find some brush, if available and put it down on the ground under your groundcloth. Other than that there is really not much you need to do. In winter time we used to carry a mylar groundcloth that acted as an insulation layer. But when hiking the AT this is kind of impracticle.

'Slogger

[LIhikers]

It will be warmer in your tent than in a open shelter.
Make sure you have a pad to get you up off the cold ground when you're laying down.

[Toolshed]

Peanut
We stomp down the tent areas or dig them out, depending on the level of snow and the pack formation. Sometimes we have to dig paths to each other's tents.

I try to leave a foot of snow packed down under the tent if possible, it insulates and it melts a little as you sleep to help conform to your body.

I usually put my tent right on the snow and then put my groundcloth inside the tent. This allows me to have my boots in the tent if I desire (Take the crampons off outside).

You might find the tent floor sticks to the snow when you are taking it down, but it usually peels off with a little effort. You might also find your aluminum tent poles are frozen stuck at the junctions - I usually take my overgloves off and hold the junction in my hand for about 20 seconds - The warmth of my hand allows it to come apart. It takes long to take your tent down because you have to warm up your hands every 3-4 tent pole junctions, but if you wear liner gloves, they help.

The other thing you will likely need are snow stakes (http://www.rei.com/product/358111?vcat=REI_SEARCH)- They will hold much better than needle stakes (you can uses skis, snowshoes or logs, but I just carry snowstakes. It is much easier. They are wider and flatter, but curved from one side to the other with hols punched in them. I have ropes tied to the stakes so I can pull the stakes out hard if they get frozen in the ground. Doesn't take much to get them to stay. Put them in the snow, kick some fresh snow over them and stomp down. wait 15-30 minutes and they will be stuck like concrete.

[Blissful]

We had to camp in snow at Iron Mtn shelter. Got there and the place was packed. All the good sites were taken. I was cold, wet, hungry and had a broken shovel to clear out a small place of snow to set up a tent for Paul Bunyan and I down this slippery slope. We used his backpack to keep from sliding down. One fun night. But...it's only one night. And that's what I told him and myself, on many yucky nights like that.

[mweinstone]

in snow im warmer, baconier and allways gloatfilled.

[shelterbuilder]

I'm assuming that you have NO winter/snow camping experience.

You WILL be warmer in your tent than you would be in a shelter - the tent can be completely closed up, whereas the shelter is open on one side. (Just don't run your stove inside the tent - you don't want to wake up dead from CO poisoning!:eek:) If there's enough snow that your feet sink in and it makes walking difficult, then you'll want to stomp down the area where you'll pitch your tent, plus an area right in front of that where you'll be moving around, doing chores, etc. (Snowshoes are really good for this; if you needed them to hike in, use them to pack the snow in camp. But don't worry if you don't have them - boots work just fine.) Most tents have a fairly waterproof floor, but a ground sheet underneath won't hurt. Make sure that you have an extra thick, FULL LENGTH sleeping pad under your bag - you can rig 2 of the 3/8" thick WallyWorld pads to go one on top of the other, and that should be enough. And don't sleep with your mouth and nose inside of your sleeping bag unless you really want a big wet spot in your bag where your breath condensed during the night.:eek:

If you have a water bottle that you KNOW doesn't leak, take it to bed with you - full. That way, you'll have water that isn't frozen to start cooking with in the morning. (If you have a canister stove, you may want to sleep with the canister, too. They work better warm.) Melting snow for water means that you're not limited to camping near springs/streams, but it takes a lot of fuel to melt snow. Mix snow into some of that water that you slept with - it'll melt faster that way.

Carry more food - you'll need extra calories in the winter. And drink more than you think you need to - it's easy to get dehydrated in the winter without noticing it. Plan on doing fewer miles - and being just as tired! While you hike, wear only enough layers to stay comfortably COOL; when you stop, put on more layers to stay warm. If you are sweating when you are hiking, you are either wearing too much, or you are hiking too fast. I frequently wear only my base layer, wool pants and a wool sweater (or better yet, a wool button-front shirt, with most of the buttons open and the sleeves pushed up). Adjust the sleeves up/down for comfort.

If you get cold, stop and make yourself a nice, hot, sugary drink - or two, or three. And it may help you to keep warm during the night if you have a sugary snack just before turning in for the night.

Enjoy just being out there in weather that sends most folks indoors.

[saimyoji]

One thing I've discovered about winter camping is that you want to bring as much inside your bag with you as you can. Things that suck when frozen include water, boots, mittens, socks, fuel, food. Get them warm before you bring them in your bag with you, or your body heat will cause condensation on the objects, wetting your bag inside.

[RenoRoamer]

Assuming your wait until April 1, you probably won't see heavy snow. What I would recommend is making camp as soon as the snow starts to get heavy, assuming this even happens, and then waiting until the snow stops and starts to melt. If things don't warm up after 3 days or so, then just bail out and wait a week in town.

The problem I see with the recommendations above is that you would end up burdening yourself with a lot of snow gear (snowshoes, snow stakes, extra heavy pads, etc) that you probably won't need. The only thing I would bring myself if I were an april 1 NOBO (I'm planning a july SOBO myself) is a pair of traction devices, such as those stablicers that they sell at REI, just in case you have to walk on ice from snow that melts and then refreezes at night. Don't rely on the Yaktrax--these are not durable enough. Which brings up another point, if it snows and then starts to melt and then freezes again at night, make sure to make late starts each day, so you don't get caught by early-morning ice.

[Toolshed]

When I posted, I was thinking of true winter camping in cold climates with heavy snowfalls, rather than ocassional snow along the trail...My bad.. Since you are speaking of ocassional snow, I wouldn't concern myself with snowstakes and probably not snowshoes and certainly not crampons.
Good luck.

Assuming your wait until April 1, you probably won't see heavy snow. What I would recommend is making camp as soon as the snow starts to get heavy, assuming this even happens, and then waiting until the snow stops and starts to melt. If things don't warm up after 3 days or so, then just bail out and wait a week in town.

The problem I see with the recommendations above is that you would end up burdening yourself with a lot of snow gear (snowshoes, snow stakes, extra heavy pads, etc) that you probably won't need. The only thing I would bring myself if I were an april 1 NOBO (I'm planning a july SOBO myself) is a pair of traction devices, such as those stablicers that they sell at REI, just in case you have to walk on ice from snow that melts and then refreezes at night. Don't rely on the Yaktrax--these are not durable enough. Which brings up another point, if it snows and then starts to melt and then freezes again at night, make sure to make late starts each day, so you don't get caught by early-morning ice.

[ScottP]

If you're starting mid-march you'll likely have snow, but if you do you should be able to find somewhere snow less to set up your tent. You never know with the AT spring, but I wouldn't freak out.

Everyone's got their own methods for dealing with cold. For March AT type cold, I wouldn't bring anything inside my sleeping bag with me--it's just more for your body to keep warm (unless you like the hot water bottle trick, but I prefer the carry a good, warm sleeping bag trick. This good warm sleeping bag trick is key!). Winter/mountaineering is a different story though, and I don't know anything about those kinds of conditions.

You can just empty your water bottles before night and fill them up first thing in the morning so you aren't stuck carrying 5 pounds of ice for who knows how long.

[envirodiver]

If there is snow on the ground, you can put your water bottles upside down in the snow. The water freezes from the top down. That way unless the entire bottle freezes, there will be unfrozen water and bottle top at the top of the bottle in the morning. The snow also provides insulation and slows the freezing of the water.

I usually put 1 bottle and filter (if carrying inside a large ziplock) in the bag w/ me at night.

[Cannibal]

I just tie my hammock to the trees and sleep like I always do. :D

When I used to tent camp I would compress the snow then set up the tent on top of my ground cloth. With good insulation I think the snow makes a much better bed than the ground. Kind of tough to 'leave no trace'.

[hammock engineer]

If it helps I turn my pack liner inside out and put my shoes in it and seal it. It ferments and smells nasty in the morning. But it is a great warm nasty.

As others said, water, water treatment, fuel canister, electronics, clothes for the next day, pretty much everything going into the sleeping bag. Aquia Mira does freeze if it gets cold enough.

On the super cold nights I used a sleeping bag and a quilt inside of the bag. If I needed more I put my down jacket over me, a rain jacket works just as well. You can wrap you rain pants around your feet to help keep them warm, insulated jackets work well too. When my sleeping pad wasn't enough I added a closed cell foam pad.

Warm waterbottles are famoninal. The best. Put them in your bag before you get in for a warm bag. Also I learned the hard way not to wait until I get chilled to get into the bag. It is easier to stay warm than warm up in it. A cold bottle also makes a huge cold stop and chill inside.

Then again I was a southbounder.

[Tipi Walter]

Peanut
We stomp down the tent areas or dig them out, depending on the level of snow and the pack formation. Sometimes we have to dig paths to each other's tents.

I try to leave a foot of snow packed down under the tent if possible, it insulates and it melts a little as you sleep to help conform to your body.

I usually put my tent right on the snow and then put my groundcloth inside the tent. This allows me to have my boots in the tent if I desire (Take the crampons off outside).

You might find the tent floor sticks to the snow when you are taking it down, but it usually peels off with a little effort. You might also find your aluminum tent poles are frozen stuck at the junctions - I usually take my overgloves off and hold the junction in my hand for about 20 seconds - The warmth of my hand allows it to come apart. It takes long to take your tent down because you have to warm up your hands every 3-4 tent pole junctions, but if you wear liner gloves, they help.

The other thing you will likely need are snow stakes (http://www.rei.com/product/358111?vcat=REI_SEARCH)- They will hold much better than needle stakes (you can uses skis, snowshoes or logs, but I just carry snowstakes. It is much easier. They are wider and flatter, but curved from one side to the other with hols punched in them. I have ropes tied to the stakes so I can pull the stakes out hard if they get frozen in the ground. Doesn't take much to get them to stay. Put them in the snow, kick some fresh snow over them and stomp down. wait 15-30 minutes and they will be stuck like concrete.

It's always good to read about people who know their winter camping stuff. Toolshed seems to know his stuff.

Winter camping is my favorite camping, and like Toolshed said, placing a tent on snow has different variables. Most of the time if it is 5 or 6 inches deep(the most you'll see on the AT), I'll sweep it off the ground using my hands and put the tent on bare ground.

I've had problems with stuck frozen poles so now I've coated each tip with silicone grease and it works great. The main consideration in snow camping is walking and backpacking in deep snow. It is a hellish exercise in sweaty layers and slow going. And on the AT, deep snow is the main component to epic rescue stories about hikers caught up in white-out conditions where they can't find the trail and can hardly move thru it. The Blizzard of '93 comes to mind. Usually in the southeast, a big winter storm like '93 can be sat out in a tent as the deep snow will eventually melt within 5 or 6 days. Many people panic and attempt to immediately flee and they get into some terrible situations. Staying put is okay.

But the odds of facing such a storm nowadays is very remote, maybe up north on the AT it happens, but here in NC/TN/VA snowfalls have been less and less each winter.

[Del Q]

If there is not too much snow, I like spots in the woods, use my hiking poles to pile up a bunch of leaves, pitch on top of that, lots of nice air/insulation underneath.

[Jason of the Woods]

Snow is great for insulation. I wish that we had more of it here....