View Full Version : Campmor 20* Down Bag
I have a Campmor 20* Down Bag, Long, Rectangular, new. I like the rectangular style for the extra leg room.
The temps were to drop into the teens last night so I figured I'd test it out. I didn't set up my tent, I just rolled out my old military sleeping pad down I went. It was very windy. I was warm for the first hour but I started to get chilly after that. After another hour I needed to come inside. If I had to, I think I'd have been fine but it got damn cold. I was wearing a t-shirt, and sweatpants, nothing else.
I'm starting in early March and have a few of questions.
1. Should I buy the Campmor bag liner and how will that help the temp rating?
2. Would sleeping in my tent helped significantly?
3. It seems most people start with 20* bags at that time of year and the avg temps down there in GA don't seem to get below 20*.
4. Thoughts? Advice?
Thanks.
By the way, when I did finally come inside it was 13* out.
dessertrat
02-11-2008, 11:49
And no tent or anything else to serve as a windbreak? I would say you did alright for wearing only a t-shirt and sweatpants, and being exposed to the wind. In a tent to block the wind, and with a fleece top and cap, do you think it would have been alright?
Getting out of the wind makes a big difference.
You survived the test at home. Keep testing, wearing clothes you're likely to bring, until you come up with a satisfactory package (clothing plus bag). A vapor barrier may be worth the few ounces, since it's the single best way (next to wearing all your clothes) to lower the cold limit of your bag. You should NOT, however, wear much clothing inside a vapor barrier. Anything you wear inside will become damp, but the insulation in the bag will stay dry, which is what keeps you warmer.
I can definitely understand wanting to have more leg room, but a rectangular bag is harder to keep warm. You'd probably stay a lot warmer in a mummy bag. You didn't do bad for not having a tent or some type of shelter to break the wind from you. You're gutsier than I. :D
Frolicking Dinosaurs
02-11-2008, 11:54
My guess is the wind chill was your problem. Will you be using a tent or a tarp or sleeping in shelters? If you are using a tent, your ambient temp will be about 5 to 10* above the outside temp and you will have little to no wind. With a tarp, location and pitch will determine how much protection you have from wind - learning how to pitch a tarp for protection is worthwhile. If you plan to use shelters, go for the liner or a bivy (a better choice if your alternative shelter is a smallish tarp) as you will be stuck with the location of the shelter and it may or may not offer protection from direct wind.
Thanks for the advice Tinker, I will keep testing.
Dessert, if the temps drop that low again I'll try it with the tent. I think if I had a fleece top, cap and tent I would have been much warmer but I don't think it would have helped enough.
Thanks for the replies.
I don't plan to use shelters unless I have to. I have an msr hubba I'll be using.
I'd add a tent, fleece top and balaclava. With the 20* bag in 13* weather they should make the night survivable. If you stay in a shelter throw the tent over you.
I but a rectangular bag is harder to keep warm. You'd probably stay a lot warmer in a mummy b
I noticed that, too. A mummy bag is warmer, lighter and less bulky.
Having said that, a balaclava and a shelter will also help.
warraghiyagey
02-11-2008, 12:12
We had bad ass wind all night here and it got cold in NE. Try surrounding yourself with the same conditions you'll have on the trail - tent, socks and whatever you sleep in. Probably a better indicator.:)
Temps are supposed to get down to at least 13* tonight with 10-15mph winds w/ 30mph gusts so I'll be doing another test tonight. I'll set up the tent and grab a fleece top, socks, and a balaclava and see how it goes.
warraghiyagey
02-11-2008, 12:18
Temps are supposed to get down to at least 13* tonight with 10-15mph winds w/ 30mph gusts so I'll be doing another test tonight. I'll set up the tent and grab a fleece top, socks, and a balaclava and see how it goes.
Let us know. :)
Frolicking Dinosaurs
02-11-2008, 12:39
I'd add a tent, fleece top and balaclava. With the 20* bag in 13* weather they should make the night survivable. If you stay in a shelter throw the tent over you.Good advice, Sly.
use a nalgene hot water bottle when temp drops below rating for the bag
Toolshed
02-11-2008, 13:30
With no shelter, every time the wind blows, it blows all that trapped warmth right outta your bag causing you to have to generate more. A tent or tarp properly closed and vented will add approx 10 degrees by keeping the air still (or at least stiller than the outside winds).
Also, keep in mind that you were probably well-fed and well-rested and in a satiated state of mind when you went to sleep. Add in overly tired, cold, damp, hungry and you might not be as warm, requiring the need for additional clothes.
I would not bother with a VBL unless it is well below freezing. And in my VBL I never sleep really well, though I have stayed warm with a -25d bag in -40 degree winter temps in the Daks for several nights at a time.
Otherwise, I think you are within an acceptable range of comfort starting out with a +20d bag.
max patch
02-11-2008, 13:34
If you stay in a shelter throw the tent over you.
Once on a cold night in Maine I used my tent as a bivy. Never even crossed my mind to use it as a blanket. I wonder if it makes a difference one way or the other?
Darwin again
02-11-2008, 14:15
You would be amazed how much heat you lose to the ground.
A better pad would help.
The thick Ridgerest, closed-cell in full-length worked great for me.
(The 20' by 72" size.)
Link. (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.backcountrygear.com/images/ThermarestRidgeRestDlxS06.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.backcountrygear.com/catalog/accessdetail.cfm/CA1565&h=300&w=300&sz=7&hl=en&start=7&um=1&tbnid=n-0-WmgK3MMUfM:&tbnh=116&tbnw=116&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dridgerest%2Bpad%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26 sa%3DN)
A tent will add about ten degrees to your comfort zone.
Getting out of the wind is critical.
Good luck!
whitefoot_hp
02-11-2008, 19:08
the campmor mummy long has plenty of leg room. extra room means more space for your body to heat
Toolshed
02-11-2008, 22:29
the campmor mummy long has plenty of leg room. extra room means more space for your body to heat
Or conversely - more space to put clothing, hot water bottles, stove fuel and booties (or booty) :D
dessertrat
02-11-2008, 23:23
Once on a cold night in Maine I used my tent as a bivy. Never even crossed my mind to use it as a blanket. I wonder if it makes a difference one way or the other?
Whatever keeps the most wind off of you.
Using your tent fly as a wraparound bivy is effective in extreme cold. It blocks wind better than using a tent in its normal mode, usually.
Another key to staying warm in the cold is to NOT MOVE MUCH. Anytime you move, you disturb the insulating air between you and your midlayer and/or outer layer. Staying still is a good strategy.
Disappointing. It's 2:39am and I'm back inside. Temp is around 17*. Not as windy as last night. Slept in tent.
It's typical for me to take a long time to fall asleep but I went out there at 10:00pm. I listened to nature for an hour or so and was quite content. I was wearing mid-weight smartwool socks, sweatpants, t-shirt, a warm polyester pullover, and a balaclava. I messed with the balaclava quite a bit because it was making me sweat.
The problem seems to be my sleeping pad. It's prety uncomfortable and after a couple of hours I can feel the cold from the ground. I tried to hang in there and fall asleep but couldn't.
Should I try a good sleeping pad or could it be something else?
If it's the pad, as I suspect, do You have any recommendations?
warraghiyagey
02-12-2008, 04:11
Not sure what the make-up of your old military style pad is. I use the green roll up one from EMS - don't know the make or model but they are popular on the trail. If on a night this cold you're only feeling the cold coming up through your pad then that's a likely place to look. But even considering your tent - at 17F you are below your bags rating. May be a combination of issues. Pad would be a good place to start. Maybe a bag liner too??
Toolshed
02-12-2008, 08:36
Should I try a good sleeping pad or could it be something else?
If it's the pad, as I suspect, do You have any recommendations?
For temps this cold, you would do better to have either a good 4 season pad beneath you or a 3-season self inflating and then a closed cell foam pad (or 2 closed cell foam pads. I usually carry extra pieces of 18" long closed cell pad along with my 20 year old "rust" colored Thermarest and am fine. I put the pieces beneath my shoulder and hips.
Disappointing. It's 2:39am and I'm back inside. Temp is around 17*. Not as windy as last night. Slept in tent.
It's typical for me to take a long time to fall asleep but I went out there at 10:00pm. I listened to nature for an hour or so and was quite content. I was wearing mid-weight smartwool socks, sweatpants, t-shirt, a warm polyester pullover, and a balaclava. I messed with the balaclava quite a bit because it was making me sweat.
The problem seems to be my sleeping pad. It's prety uncomfortable and after a couple of hours I can feel the cold from the ground. I tried to hang in there and fall asleep but couldn't.
Should I try a good sleeping pad or could it be something else?
If it's the pad, as I suspect, do You have any recommendations?Sorry the second night didn't work out for you, either. Someone else suggested a Nalgene hot water bottle, this works excellent when placed in the groin, because it warms the blood coming past in the larger femoral artery. My sugestion, other than that, unto thee would be to take thyself to a friend's and borrow a mummy bag and try again. You'll be surprised at how much warmer you are. A recangular bag leaves too much dead space for your body to try and heat, so you get cold easier and much faster. I'd also suggest doing a few repititions of some kind of calisthenic (sp?), such as push ups or side straddle hops (jumping jacks) before getting in your bag for the night. This produces heat that will be trapped in your bag with you, keeping you warmer. Just do a few repititions to warm up a little, but don't make yourself sweat, you'll regret it later.
Tipi Walter
02-12-2008, 08:51
Campmor down bags are notorious for being cold so you get what you pay for. Open bedroll camping with a down bag will not work in the winter without using a constricting bivy bag system as winter winds will cut right into and thru a down bag. I've spent many nights in zero degrees out in the open with a down bag but always had to cover it in a heavier army bag or an old heavy flannel boy scout bag. This is a warm system but is too heavy for constant humpage.
So, a tent/fully enclosed sheltering system is a must in frigid temps as is a decent high R value sleeping pad. One single pad is all that is needed if it is thick enough. I use an older 25x77x1.75 inch thermarest Expedition model in the coldest conditions and have no complaints. I'd go with a large Trail Comfort model if I didn't have the Expedition. The Ridgerests/Z-rests are ridiculous by themselves and the thinner thermys like the Prolite 4s are still too thin in icey conditions. One quick way to tell if a pad will work in the winter is to sit up on one and if you can feel your butt touching the ground it is too thin.
Carrying more than one pad is too bulky and complicated since the pads must be strapped to the outside of the pack and the extra pad is just unneeded as one good thick pad will do fine.
Another trick I like to use if I don't think my bag/liner/mat combo is going to be enough, is to add a nice thick layer of dry leaves under the tent before you put it down. This will add an extra layer of insulation between you and the cold ground. Thank goodness I don't sleep in tents often. :D