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View Full Version : Two NH men missing in frigid weather on Mount Lafayette



rlharris
02-11-2008, 19:57
According to the Union Leader, two hikers are missing on Mount Lafayette. It's cold and icy up there now and a storm is headed this way. Story at http://unionleader.com/article.aspx?headline=Two+NH+men+missing+in+frigid +weather+on+Mount+Lafayette&articleId=b999e794-59d1-4d32-95cd-d9833a605b97

Blissful
02-11-2008, 20:02
Lafayette gets bad storms and wind. We got knocked over into rocks while were were up there - the wind must have been gusting at 80 mph and this was August.

rafe
02-11-2008, 20:03
It's frickin cold in Boston today, serious wind chill, must be 10x worse on that ridge. Ouch.

TNjed
02-11-2008, 20:03
don't look good bro, mighty cold up north ain't it? Hope they dug themselves a cave

The Old Fhart
02-11-2008, 20:39
The report I heard on the conditions was -10°F to -2°F, winds 35-70mph, windchill -45°F to -35°F. There are few spots to find shelter on the ridge and few escape routes. The wind is generally from the west so people having trouble on the ridge go to the east side of the ridge where there is some protection but that leads steeply into the Pemi wilderness area, hopefully they are well prepared. I know one of the rescuers, Joe Lentini, and he is one of the best in the business.

wakapak
02-11-2008, 20:49
my thoughts and prayers go out to these two and their families....
weather isn't too good up here, however, here's to hoping this story has a happier ending...

nitewalker
02-11-2008, 20:51
people are never going to learn!! that mt lafayette is not a mtn you want to take for granted. i had to come off of it in the middle of summer due to bad weather. every year it seems some1 is not prepared for what that mtn can throw at you. all i can say is if they werent prepared for an overnite hike then the outlook will be bleak..hopefully things turn out for the better.....sounds like they went on a day hike and not an overniter.....lets sit tight and hope for the best

Frosty
02-11-2008, 20:52
The report I heard on the conditions was -10°F to -2°F, winds 35-70mph, windchill -45°F to -35°F. There are few spots to find shelter on the ridge and few escape routes. The wind is generally from the west so people having trouble on the ridge go to the east side of the ridge where there is some protection but that leads steeply into the Pemi wilderness area, hopefully they are well prepared. I hope so, too, but few carry shelters and bags on day hikes, and the weather must be brutal.

A few years ago, I was at Kinsman Pond when the Cox's got lost. Saw the helicopter searching across the notch but didn't know why until I got out. I spent 2 nights chilly in a -25* bag and simply could not image what people caught unprepared must go through.

It's so easy to come off Lafayette wrong in cloudy/whiteout conditions and head towards Garfield. Even coming down the right way, it's easy to drift off to the right and down the Skookumchuck Ravine by accident in zero visibility. Hopefully they will be found okay.

Frolicking Dinosaurs
02-11-2008, 20:54
According to the Union Leader, two hikers are missing on Mount Lafayette.
The report I heard on the conditions was -10°F to -2°F, winds 35-70mph, windchill -45°F to -35°F. :( Prayers for these men and their families. I hope they are prepared and have some survival knowledge.

nitewalker
02-11-2008, 20:57
I hope so, too, but few carry shelters and bags on day hikes, and the weather must be brutal.

A few years ago, I was at Kinsman Pond when the Cox's got lost. Saw the helicopter searching across the notch but didn't know why until I got out. I spent 2 nights chilly in a -25* bag and simply could not image what people caught unprepared must go through.

It's so easy to come off Lafayette wrong in cloudy/whiteout conditions and head towards Garfield. Even coming down the right way, it's easy to drift off to the right and down the Skookumchuck Ravine by accident in zero visibility. Hopefully they will be found okay.


i am in 100% agreement with you. i have lots of 1st hand experience with horrible weather up there. i did start down the wrong trail one time but i noticed rite away that i wasnt heading the correct direction......that mtn is nasty.....

doggiebag
02-11-2008, 21:14
I've had my scares up there as well. The weather moves quickly - you would never catch me above 4,000 feet when a white out is imminent. Below treeline they've got a good chance at walking out if they can build a fire and can manage to stay dry and out of the wind. Let's just hope they're below treeline.

nitewalker
02-11-2008, 21:18
I've had my scares up there as well. The weather moves quickly - you would never catch me above 4,000 feet when a white out is imminent. Below treeline they've got a good chance at walking out if they can build a fire and can manage to stay dry and out of the wind. Let's just hope they're below treeline.



DID ALDO EAT SOME HOT WINGS??:eek::mad:

doggiebag
02-11-2008, 21:30
i am in 100% agreement with you. i have lots of 1st hand experience with horrible weather up there. i did start down the wrong trail one time but i noticed rite away that i wasnt heading the correct direction......that mtn is nasty.....
Not just the mountain ... as soon as you start crossing the Franconia Ridge ... if you get caught by bad weather. There's no cover - the winds can easily obscure your tracks. No way I'd bivouac up there - I'd make my way down to treeline no matter what the cost.

Ps: biscuits/gravy

warraghiyagey
02-11-2008, 21:53
:( Prayers for these men and their families. I hope they are prepared and have some survival knowledge.
As well, this isn't a good night to be in that situation. Hoping that they have the skills and walk out when conditions let them.:sun

River Runner
02-11-2008, 22:07
As well, this isn't a good night to be in that situation. Hoping that they have the skills and walk out when conditions let them.:sun

And a lot of good luck too.

Prayers for the searchers too.

warraghiyagey
02-11-2008, 22:14
And a lot of good luck too.

Prayers for the searchers too.
Amen. I believe with all I am we'll be hearing soon stories of how they made it out OK.:sun

dessertrat
02-11-2008, 23:10
None of the Whites are safe in winter. I hope they have the bags and bivies, etc., to hunker down and wait it out safely.

dmb658
02-12-2008, 00:43
ALWAYS go into the white mountains expecting the worst

Roland
02-12-2008, 02:38
Good news (http://www.wmur.com/news/15272087/detail.html). The hikers were found.

warraghiyagey
02-12-2008, 02:43
Thanks Roland. I had a good feeling about it.:sun

Roland
02-12-2008, 06:38
One of the hikers died in the hospital, overnight. Condolences to the family and friends of Laurence Fredrickson.

Old Hillwalker
02-12-2008, 08:25
For those of you who have been across Franconia Ridge, the two hikers were found on Little Haystack. That's the first little above tree line summit you come to after leaving Mt Liberty heading north on the AT. Back in the eighties there used to be an emergency bivy cache located about a hundred yards down the Falling Waters trail just off the Haystack summit. It would be put there in the Fall or early winter at the base of a very large ledge right beside the trail. I have no idea who used to put it there, or why they stopped several years ago. Too bad, it might have saved a life this weekend. The other hiker, the younger of the two is in critical condition at this morning's news release.

NorthCountryWoods
02-12-2008, 08:33
Be careful out there people. Weather has been weird lately. Rain/freezing rain one minute, below zero the next with high winds. Been going on for the past week or 2 and supposed to continue.

:(


Second Hiker Fights For Life In Hospital

POSTED: 7:09 am EST February 12, 2008
UPDATED: 7:22 am EST February 12, 2008
http://www.wptz.com/sh/storytools/storytools_newsvine.gif (http://www.newsvine.com/_tools/seed?popoff=0&u=http://www.wptz.com/news/15278259/detail.html)http://www.wptz.com/sh/storytools/storytools_delicious.gif (http://del.icio.us/post?title=Hiker%20Dies%20After%20Being%20Rescued&url=http://www.wptz.com/news/15278259/detail.html)http://www.wptz.com/sh/storytools/storytools_digg.gif (http://digg.com/submit?phase=2&title=Hiker%20Dies%20After%20Being%20Rescued&url=http://www.wptz.com/news/15278259/detail.html)http://www.wptz.com/sh/storytools/storytools_facebook.gif (http://www.facebook.com/sharer.php?u=http://www.wptz.com/news/15278259/detail.html&t=Hiker%20Dies%20After%20Being%20Rescued&src=sc&pos=top&from_posted=1)http://www.wptz.com/sh/storytools/storytools_reddit.gif (http://reddit.com/submit?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wptz.com%2Fnews%2F1527 8259%2Fdetail.html&title=Hiker%20Dies%20After%20Being%20Rescued)http://www.wptz.com/sh/storytools/storytools_rss.gif (http://www.wptz.com/rss/)http://www.wptz.com/sh/storytools/storytools_print.gif (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:popUp%28%27/print/15278259/detail.html%27,%27width=460,height=400,scrollbars% 27%29;)http://www.wptz.com/sh/storytools/storytools_email.gif (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:popUp%28)

MANCHESTER, N.H. -- A hiker who went missing during a trek in Franconia Notch, N.H. over the weekend has died.New Hampshire Fish and Game officials said Laurence Fredrickson, 55, of South Sutton, N.H., was pronounced dead on arrival at Littleton Regional Hospital Monday evening.

James Osborne, 36, of Manchester, was hiking with Fredrickson, and as of Tuesday morning was reported in critical condition.

A search for the men was initiated Monday afternoon after the two did not show up for work, and the hikers' car was found along road.

Air and ground search-and-rescue teams found the two on Little Haystack mountain at about 7:30 p.m. Monday.

Officials say the two suffered from hypothermia, after spending time in the below-zero temperatures.Winds on the mountain were also more than 60 miles an hour.

http://www.wptz.com/news/15278259/detail.html

wakapak
02-12-2008, 08:41
my condolences go out to Fredrickson's family, and my prayers go out to Osborne and his family that he pulls through this....

weary
02-12-2008, 11:06
Good news (http://www.wmur.com/news/15272087/detail.html). The hikers were found.
Sad news. One died. The other is in critical condition.

Jason of the Woods
02-12-2008, 11:21
Yeah my thoughts go out too but didn't they check the weather. That is the first thing that I do before a day hike.

woodsy
02-12-2008, 11:23
Good news that they were found, sad news the state they were found in.
another article (http://www.unionleader.com/article.aspx?headline=Missing+hikers+rescued+from+ mountain&articleId=e53d5351-56ba-4732-993e-) with more info as well as other incidents on the mountain from the past, scroll down under top stories.

Jaybird62
02-12-2008, 11:32
Yeah my thoughts go out too but didn't they check the weather. That is the first thing that I do before a day hike.
I agree with you- you also have to be prepared. I know if I was hiking up there at this time of the year, I would want to have a shelter and sleeping bag with me. The weather is very unpredictable and can change very quickly. My condolences to the family of the hiker who has passed, and prayers go out to hiker in hospital.

Frolicking Dinosaurs
02-12-2008, 11:33
Full Article (http://www.unionleader.com/article.aspx?headline=Missing+hikers+rescued+from+ mountain&articleId=e53d5351-56ba-4732-993e-33cff30d9f43)
One of two hikers found last night on a frigid, windswept Mount Lafayette has died, according to a hospital spokesman.

Laurence 'Fred' Frederickson, 55, of South Sutton, was pronounced dead on arrival at Littleton Regional Hospital, a spokesman said.

Frederickson's hiking companion, James Osborne, 36, of Manchester, was in critical condition, suffering from severe hypothermia when he arrived in Littleton. He was airlifted to Dartmouth-Hitchcock Medical Center in Lebanon where this morning he is in critical condition in the intensive care unit, according to a hospital official.

The two men were found on the summit of Little Haystack shortly before 7:30 p.m., said Lt. Todd Bogardus of the New Hampshire Fish and Game Department. Both were "severely hypothermic" when found in the open, exposed to the weather.

Sad indeed

warraghiyagey
02-12-2008, 11:35
Damn it.

notorius tic
02-12-2008, 11:53
Bless the familys

Rambler
02-12-2008, 13:25
The Falling Waters Trail is one of the prettiest in the NH Whites. Note it took the rescuers 6 hours to reach the top, where it meets the AT on Franconia Ridge. In summer that same hike would take two hours on average.

Just a couple years ago another person died under similar circumstances caught unprepared by a winter storm on a day hike to Lafayette only a mie or so down the ridge from Little Haystack as metioned by others in this thread.(NB Frosty) The same storm passed over two other hikers on a day hike who both survived because they were prepared to spend a night out in an emergency.

Another suggestion: If you do have the proper equipment, such as a shelter and sleeping bag. Hunker down as soon as possible. Resist the temptation to hike out. Exhaustion and dehydration are other enemies. I tried to do just that once and almost lost my life because hypothermia crept up on me. I decided to stop hiking and set up camp AFTER I had started shivering. Wet from walking in wet snow and having it fall on me from branches, I knew I had to get on something dry, set up my shelter and eat dinner, get into my bag, and I had to do all of those things after dark. I went to sleep thinking I had done everything. When I awoke in the morning, I was still wearing some wet clothes although I had dry clothes still in my pack. My shelter was sagging badly, never tied up properly. Only my lower body had gotten into my sleeping bag. My dinner was cooked but never eaten. It was still in the pot. Let's say , for example, those men had been prepared, carrying shelter and bags and headlamps. Had they tried to hike out, would they have guessed it might take 6 hours instead of 2? It is possible, even with all the right gear, to hike yourself into exhaustion and deadly hypothermia. Even the right equipment might not save you. Read up on how to survive. What to do and not do when you are caught out longer than you expect to be. It all intensifies when the weather is cold.

Jack Tarlin
02-12-2008, 13:36
Very sad. I also saw in several reports that no search was initiated until it was discovered that neither of the guys showed up for work.

This would seem to indicate that none of their friends or family members knew about their plans, i.e., they hadn't planned to "check back in" with anyone when their trip was done.

In the White Mountains in winter (and probably all year-round), it is really important that hikers leave their itineraries with someone, and report back in when they safely finish their trips. Otherwise, nobody is considered "lost" until hours later, which appears to have happened in this case, and search/rescue teams are unaware that their services are needed until much later.

Alligator
02-12-2008, 14:08
Very sad. I also saw in several reports that no search was initiated until it was discovered that neither of the guys showed up for work.

This would seem to indicate that none of their friends or family members knew about their plans, i.e., they hadn't planned to "check back in" with anyone when their trip was done.

In the White Mountains in winter (and probably all year-round), it is really important that hikers leave their itineraries with someone, and report back in when they safely finish their trips. Otherwise, nobody is considered "lost" until hours later, which appears to have happened in this case, and search/rescue teams are unaware that their services are needed until much later.Will SAR go out right away? I often wonder this. I always leave a detailed itinerary, but I just tell my wife to wait until the next morning to call if I don't show up. Part of that is that I'm am always backpacking, thus having all my gear, part is the possibility of an ordinary delay, and part is the assumption that they wouldn't start looking anyway.

hammock engineer
02-12-2008, 14:43
I have a buddy that does SAR. The way they do it is they get a page letting them know there might be a search. In that time an officer goes to the scene to check it out. A lot of times it is miscommunication and this clears it up. If not they make the call to send in SAR. The page lets them know to start making plans and get their gear ready. A lot of their calls come in at the end of the day or the middle of the night when people out for the day do not check in. I think even if you don't report back you should still except to spend the night depending on where you are.

Something he suggested that I always carry now is a couple hand warmers and an emergency space bag (same as the blankets but a bag). Worst case I can open the warmers and put them in the bag and get in. The bag would shield most of the weather and should warm up. May not be the best night out, but enough to keep me going. It also comes together without much thought or work.

Frosty
02-12-2008, 15:20
I just tell my wife to wait until the next morning to call if I don't show up. Part of that is that I'm am always backpacking, thus having all my gear, part is the possibility of an ordinary delay, and part is the assumption that they wouldn't start looking anyway.I tell my wife the same thing, but like you I'm prepared to spend the night.



Something he suggested that I always carry now is a couple hand warmers and an emergency space bag (same as the blankets but a bag). Worst case I can open the warmers and put them in the bag and get in. The bag would shield most of the weather and should warm up. May not be the best night out, but enough to keep me going. It also comes together without much thought or work.Hand and toe warmers are cheap, lightweight, and they work wonders, warming the extremities and sending warmer blood back to the torso.

One thing, the bag you describe is great. THe ones to avoid are those $5 spaceblankets the size of a deck of cards. They are next to worthless. The wind will shred them, not that you can get into them with boots on.

better than nothing but just barely:
http://www.campmor.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=1051

ONLY 7 OUNCES and tear resistant. Along with a balaclava and some chemical warmers it will save your life. As you said, it won't be the most comfortable night you've ever spent, but you'll survive.
http://www.campmor.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=99840

I bring a Z-Rest in case I'm injured. The stats on heat loss lying on one of these things vs. lying on snow is staggering.

Also pair of trashcompactor bags for my feet in the likely event I will not take my boots off to apply toe warmers. Stick a pair of handwarmers in each sock, slip on hte bag and crawl in teh space bag. Balaclava on head, hand warmers in each glove.

DawnTreader
02-12-2008, 16:16
All sound advice.. Keep it commin' so as to educate... Maybe this thread will save a life in the future..
I'll stress the importance of carrying a sleeping bag on day hikes especially in fall and winter. You never know when your gonna need to hunker down for a while..

earlyriser26
02-12-2008, 16:25
Wow, how could someone go on a winter hike in the White mountains without the proper gear. I can understand someone getting caught in August, but Feb????

dessertrat
02-12-2008, 16:31
Second on the mylar/survival bag. It can save your life in a tough spot.

GGS2
02-12-2008, 16:49
... One thing, the bag you describe is great. THe ones to avoid are those $5 spaceblankets the size of a deck of cards. They are next to worthless. The wind will shred them, not that you can get into them with boots on...

I have used the super light weight blanket style things for supplemental insulation when I've been caught without sufficient protection, and it is definitely worth a few degrees. You have to ventilate properly or get soaked in condensation.

I think that shelter systems of all sorts need a bit of skill and experience to use properly. Inexperienced people caught short are liable to be in trouble no matter what they carry with them. Check out the Darwin thread. I wouldn't like to depend on a simple space blanket shelter to save me in extreme conditions. However, anything might save a life.

I am astonished that the two hikers in this case were found above tree line, if this is the case. One of the first things to do is to get down off the exposed open terrain. Then you have a real good chance with just the clothes you hiked in and a fire. LNT means nothing when your life is in danger. Break something down and build a fire. It can save your life.

Tinker
02-12-2008, 16:59
Never go above treeline in the Whites in winter without a sleeping bag (a tarp is good, too). Bring the "10 essentials" and know how to use them.
A backpacking stove and a pot for melting snow/heating water to keep body temp up is a good idea, too. I got mildly hypothermic on top of Mt. Pierce last winter, but made it out ok. I had my sleeping bag, but nothing to heat water with (I was with another hiker who carried less).
Never again.

Marta
02-12-2008, 17:15
When I set off on a hike, no matter how short, I always ask myself: "What if something happens so that I can't move another step?"

Factors to consider:
1) How likely is it that someone will come along? If I'm at the State Park on a Sunday, I will see dozens of other people. Quick rescue is a certainty. If I'm someplace where there won't be anyone else, I need to move to step 2.
2) How cold? The things mentioned above--a CCF pad to insulate me from the ground/snow, adequate clothing (esp. hat, gloves, neck gaiter, torso layers), protection from rain/snow, and the aforementioned body bag.

Besides clothing, I carry a whistle, compass, map, and one or two forms of light.

MOWGLI
02-12-2008, 18:54
In early December 2003, a friend and I day hiked up the Crawford Path. We agreed before we set out, that if either of us wanted to turn around, we'd say the word, and the other would respect the wishes - no questions asked.

There was perhaps 1" of snow when we started off. As we neared treeline, there was about 6" of snow. In one steep area, where the trail slid off steeply to the left, my friend suggested we turn around, and we did.

We were never in danger, and the skies were blue and beautiful, with little in the way of wind. Whenever I hike alone, I always trust my gut, and when I hike with a partner, I respect the other person's instincts.

Hope that helps someone. It's a system that always works for me. Macho BS peer pressure doesn't belong out on the trail, and that is doubly true for the White Mountains.

My condolences to the families associated with this tragedy.

rafe
02-12-2008, 18:58
Macho BS peer pressure doesn't belong out on the trail, and that is doubly true for the White Mountains.

Hear, hear!!

Or as they say, Discretion is the better part of valor (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=discretion+is+the+better+part+of+valor&btnG=Google+Search).

Frolicking Dinosaurs
02-12-2008, 18:59
For a day hike I carry:

an adventure medical space blanket bag,
2 of the largest trash bags I can find (the kind for leaves) - these can be filled with duff, pine tips, etc to use as insulation)
a silnylon poncho tarp (also my raingear)
some mason line
a small piece of a household candle (fire starter or emergency light)
a few waterproof matches
a small ti cup / pot
my multitool (knife, tweezers, scissors)
a tiny first aid kit (with meds for pain, light pain, tummy problems, a guaze bandage and some duct tape)
my toilet supplies have alcohol gel and some TP.
a pair of nylon sweat pants that are a size too large. These can be put on over other pants and stuffed with dry duff or small pine boroughs to provide even more insulation.

rafe
02-12-2008, 19:02
To FD's list, I would add: hat, gloves, and a polypro base layer -- top and bottom. I would never hike in the Whites, even in the dead of summer, without these. Total weight of these four items is about one pound, max.

woodsy
02-12-2008, 19:34
From another article on this tragedy:


"This tragic situation, once again, underscores the importance of proper planning and the need for appropriate equipment when winter hiking," said Col. Jeffrey Gray, Chief of Law Enforcement at Fish and Game. "Individuals must carefully evaluate and acknowledge their physical limitations and level of experience. Winter hikers should not hesitate to turn back or postpone outings when severe weather is predicted or encountered. Even the best of clothing and equipment may be no match for the severe winter weather often encountered in New Hampshire's White Mountains!"

GGS2
02-12-2008, 19:44
In winter or possible snow conditions:

When going out on bright days, especially above the tree line or in open country, always take some dark eye protection. Snow blindness can incapacitate you completely for up to a week. There are ways to improvise if you lose your glasses (eg., slit goggles).

Always carry some dependable way to make fire.

Keep some quick energy food in a pocket.

Extra clothing or sleeping system, emergency shelter, complete warm layer including hat and mitts.

Behavior: Getting wet is trouble. Layer and keep yourself sweat free. If it rains, you go through the ice, you get snow-wet for any reason, begin to think immediately about how to dry out and get warm. If you are missing things like dry clothes or shelter, start thinking survival mode. Conserve energy and get out of the danger zone right away. If you are tired and in deep snow, make an emergency shelter by packing down a small area in trees, or making a snow cave in a bank, or crawling under a convenient conifer, or behind a log or root ball. Find a safe place to make a small fire, and start it. If you have a stove and pot, make tea or hot food. You can always find leaves or bark to make a tea in the woods.

You know, the helpful hints list just goes on and on. There are lots of skills to staying alive in various situations. But they all start with knowing what to do, and not getting yourself farther into trouble than you can get yourself out. If you don't know what to do, even a little bit of trouble is too much. So start by taking an outdoor survival course, or going out with people who know stuff, and practicing. Failing that, read a lot of books and articles on the subject.

Jason of the Woods
02-12-2008, 19:50
I don't mean to be cold-hearted with my remarks. The families should definatley be in everyone's thoughts. At the same time I take warm gear with me and know how to start a fire when I'm in the woods(basic survival). Otherwise I wouldn't hike in the winter and I live in KY. I'm not climbing many mountains here. These two were old enough to know this........ very odd.?



I agree with you- you also have to be prepared. I know if I was hiking up there at this time of the year, I would want to have a shelter and sleeping bag with me. The weather is very unpredictable and can change very quickly. My condolences to the family of the hiker who has passed, and prayers go out to hiker in hospital.

wrongway_08
02-12-2008, 20:05
I always carry a way to make fire, like a lighter, my stove - always have some sort of back up. Practice making a fire with all wet materials, if you can start a fire from wet crap - your good to go.

You also need to know how to make a quick shelter out of rocks, snow, trees also how to use natural depressions as shelter.

Dont forget to bring along a little stash of back up food, i like to keep 2 or 3 energy bars in the food stash just incase....... you might be hungry for the time your stuck but that little bit will keep you going.

oops56
02-12-2008, 20:15
I always carry a way to make fire, like a lighter, my stove - always have some sort of back up. Practice making a fire with all wet materials, if you can start a fire from wet crap - your good to go.

You also need to know how to make a quick shelter out of rocks, snow, trees also how to use natural depressions as shelter.

Dont forget to bring along a little stash of back up food, i like to keep 2 or 3 energy bars in the food stash just incase....... you might be hungry for the time your stuck but that little bit will keep you going.
How can you eat energy bars when in the cold they get hard as a rock

MOWGLI
02-12-2008, 20:18
How can you eat energy bars when in the cold they get hard as a rock

Put 'em in a pocket for a bit, and they'll soften in all but the harshest conditions.

Alligator
02-12-2008, 21:54
My in winter camp jacket has 4 inside mesh pockets as holding pens to keep things warm: water bottle, food, lighter, etc. One or two is sufficient though.

River Runner
02-13-2008, 01:17
Sorry to hear the hoped for best scenario did not occur. My thoughts & prayers go to the families of both hikers.

Thanks to all who have posted great ideas on precautions to take on winter hikes. May some future good come from this sad situation.

Frosty
02-13-2008, 11:36
I haven't heard much more. They said the pair did not have snowshoes, but of course there is no way of telling if they brought them and lost them, or if they tried the traverse without them. Also no word about crampons.

I also wonder why they were found Monday night on top of Little Haystack. That's spending at least 30 hours on an exposed peak. The treeline is fairly close to the ridge there (unlike Lincoln or Lafayette) and I wonder why they didn't just do down into the trees.

I would be very interested in hearing what gear they did have. Like goggles, for instance. If the wind was blowing from the Kinsmans and they didn't have goggles, they might not have been able to see to the west to find a way down.

For those of us who just dabble in winter hiking/camping, it would be nice to hear from the masters at it, guys like Old Fhart and Wolf, about what gear they bring along for day hikes and camping.

rlharris
02-13-2008, 12:54
I was on the road most of Tuesday and didn't see the news reports. There were some details about the men on Vermont Public Radio's extended local news. They were apparently dressed for a winter hike but did not have snowshoes or any provision for hunkering down overnight.

One was said to be an experienced hiker, the other more on the novice end of the spectrum.

woodsy
02-14-2008, 09:38
Rescued hiker (http://www.unionleader.com/article.aspx?headline=Rescued+hiker+regains+consci ousness&articleId=b5ead7ac-5028-46a9-a765-2cd9cf1c0a86) regains consciousness
Update on survivors condition at link.

Blissful
02-14-2008, 12:37
Glad the other hiker is doing better. So sad. The Whites are beautiful but mean stuff.

SonoftheDead
02-15-2008, 17:13
I haven't heard much more. They said the pair did not have snowshoes, but of course there is no way of telling if they brought them and lost them, or if they tried the traverse without them. Also no word about crampons.

I also wonder why they were found Monday night on top of Little Haystack. That's spending at least 30 hours on an exposed peak. The treeline is fairly close to the ridge there (unlike Lincoln or Lafayette) and I wonder why they didn't just do down into the trees.

I would be very interested in hearing what gear they did have. Like goggles, for instance. If the wind was blowing from the Kinsmans and they didn't have goggles, they might not have been able to see to the west to find a way down.

For those of us who just dabble in winter hiking/camping, it would be nice to hear from the masters at it, guys like Old Fhart and Wolf, about what gear they bring along for day hikes and camping.

They were found on top of Little Haystack because their itinerary had them going to Mt. Lafayette. Most likely Fred and James were heading back down because the storm kicked in. The wind was coming in from the west at gusts up to 100MPH.
A note to the guy from KY.
I seriously doubt your winter hiking experience includes terrain where it can be a beautiful day one minute and five minutes later you have ZERO visibility, incredibly strong winds, and the temperature has dropped to 30 below zero fahrenheit.
Sam, the second in command of the rescue operation, said that Fred had all the necessary gear for a trip up in the winter. He was wearing some of the same gear that all park rangers wear in the winter. There is no amount of gear short of knowing you will be caught in a storm and have to spend the night that will guarantee you will survive. The fact is, you can't light a fire, or create shelter when you are exposed, and above the tree line.
I think most of you have lost sight of that.

fiddlehead
02-16-2008, 19:57
I've been in 60 mph winds already. Tough stuff. 100 mph will blow you away. Can't walk, maybe crawl (from what i hear)
And yes, there is no way you're going to start a fire in that wind.

Many of us have pushed ourselves and gotten into some situations we weren't comortable with. Sounds like these two were very unlucky.

My condolences.

WILLIAM HAYES
02-16-2008, 20:28
it is a sad story you never take the mountains for granted in the winter I think all whiteblazers know this and know how to be prepared even if out only for a day hike-it is very sad that a lot of "hikers" outside the whiteblaze community don't have the requisite knowledge. I wish we could do more to educate those outside of this community about the risks
Hillbilly

Jason of the Woods
02-16-2008, 20:36
You're right. I don't have that experience and don't think that I would want it. That was my point. Even if you are hiking here in KY you go out prepared. If it's winter time you go out over prepared. As far as starting a fire goes I'm sure it wasn't possible. That's when you make shelter out of the wind and huddle together. My friend just because I live in KY does not mean that I have not hiked in some pretty serious weather. I just spent two straight weeks out that had us facing tornadoes each week. It's not climbing Everest but I would say that it's nothing to laugh at either. Not to mention that I have been caught in more than one blizzard at the top of some of the peaks in the Smokies, hurricanes in FL, tornadoes in IL, ect. Have you ever heard of hyperbole? At the end of the day it's just a walk in the woods. You just have to be prepared.


They were found on top of Little Haystack because their itinerary had them going to Mt. Lafayette. Most likely Fred and James were heading back down because the storm kicked in. The wind was coming in from the west at gusts up to 100MPH.
A note to the guy from KY.
I seriously doubt your winter hiking experience includes terrain where it can be a beautiful day one minute and five minutes later you have ZERO visibility, incredibly strong winds, and the temperature has dropped to 30 below zero fahrenheit.
Sam, the second in command of the rescue operation, said that Fred had all the necessary gear for a trip up in the winter. He was wearing some of the same gear that all park rangers wear in the winter. There is no amount of gear short of knowing you will be caught in a storm and have to spend the night that will guarantee you will survive. The fact is, you can't light a fire, or create shelter when you are exposed, and above the tree line.
I think most of you have lost sight of that.

River Runner
02-16-2008, 21:04
Let's give this a break. Did you look at the name of the poster in post #59? And the fact this is his very first post and that he just registered?

I would suggest that anyone wanting to talk about winter hike preparation start a new thread on that subject, and leave this one for condolences for the family of the deceased hiker or information on the condition of the surviving hiker.

Jason of the Woods
02-16-2008, 21:11
I agree 100%. I am noticing that unfortunatley there is way too much arguing that goes on here. This is a sight for people who "claim" to spend a lot of time outdoors yet there is nonstop bickering. It is ridiculous and juvenile. Of course my thoughts from the beginning have been with the family. Why would #59 even say what he said? I'm starting to lose faith in this site even being a resource for the AT. Sometimes it makes you think that it is just a bunch of fat, lazy people that hiked the AT 20 years ago and now lead a boring, meaningless life and that this is their highlight. Even the administrators wine and argue like middle school children. That's truly the sad thing here.


Let's give this a break. Did you look at the name of the poster in post #59? And the fact this is his very first post and that he just registered?

I would suggest that anyone wanting to talk about winter hike preparation start a new thread on that subject, and leave this one for condolences for the family of the deceased hiker or information on the condition of the surviving hiker.

OregonHiker
02-16-2008, 21:16
Even the administrators wine and argue like middle school children. That's truly the sad thing here.

Bingo:)

mweinstone
02-16-2008, 21:21
prayers ....

rickb
02-16-2008, 21:43
Good talk abou this, not for the family and stuff so much as to remind folks that it can be a serious place to hike.

Here is a story of another hiker:

http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2008/02/16/boston_hiker_missing_in_new_hampshire_mountains_12 03200544/

weary
02-16-2008, 22:12
Good talk abou this, not for the family and stuff so much as to remind folks that it can be a serious place to hike.

Here is a story of another hiker:

http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2008/02/16/boston_hiker_missing_in_new_hampshire_mountains_12 03200544/
Thanks Rick. I've spent many days on the mountains of northern New England since spending a woefully unprepared night on New Years Eve, 1970 in a leanto on Katahdin at minus 32 F.

These tales of tragedy bring constant reminders: there but for the grace of .....

FEw of us as we take these walks truly prepare for the worst. Over the years I tended to do better. And each year carried more and more weight. I never worried about my safety, but increasingly didn't want to be a participate in a tragedy that killed someone else.

This is not a reason to not enjoy winter. The only true wildness most of us will experience in this life is winter wildness. Winter is always a challenge -- Kentucky or Maine. Leave a paved road with a pack in February and wilderness will be around the next bend.

Weary

woodsy
02-16-2008, 22:33
Message from NH fish and game dept in lieu of recent hiking incidents:
FYI

News from the New Hampshire Fish and Game Department
February 14, 2008
Phone: (603) 271-3211
Email: [email protected]
For information and online licenses, visit http://www.wildlife.state.nh.us (http://www.wildlife.state.nh.us/) <http://www.wildlife.state.nh.us/>

* * * * * * *

CONTACT:
Lt. Todd Bogardus, NHFG, (603) 271-3361
Rebecca Oreskes,WMNF, 603) 528-8721
February 14, 2008


ENJOY THE WINTER OUTDOORS, BUT "hikeSafe"

CONCORD, N.H. -- With school winter vacation weeks about to begin and New Hampshire's mountains enjoying a very snowy winter, outdoor authorities are advising the Granite State's backcountry visitors to "hikeSafe."

"New Hampshire's woods and mountains are a great place for winter recreation. Whether snowshoeing, backcountry skiing or ice-climbing, there are many fantastic opportunities here," says New Hampshire Fish and Game Conservation Officer Lieutenant Todd Bogardus. "But the nature of the winter environment is that it can be a dangerous place. Cold temperatures, deep snow cover and, especially above treeline, sometimes fierce winds, mean that hikers and others need to take special precautions to enjoy their adventures safely."

Recent tragic incidents in the White Mountains, including a hiker death by hypothermia and a climber's death in an avalanche, underscore the seriousness of Bogardus's message and highlight the principles of "hikeSafe," a joint initiative of the New Hampshire Fish and Game Department and the White Mountain National Forest to promote safe and responsible hiking.

Rebecca Oreskes of the White Mountain National Forest says that the hikeSafe "Hiker Responsibility Code" sums up the basic tenets of backcountry safety. "Winter hiking has great rewards, but also comes with innate challenges and dangers. Being aware of and following the Hiker Responsibility Code are important first steps toward an enjoyable and safe journey."

There are six tenets of the code. You are responsible for yourself, so be prepared:
1) With the appropriate knowledge and gear;
2) Leave your plans with someone else;
3) Hiking groups should stick together, and not let themselves become separated;
4) Hikers should always be ready to turn back if circumstances, such as changing weather, dictate;
5) Hikers should be ready for emergencies, and, ideally, be set to effect "self rescue;" and
6) Those who know the code should share its lessons with others.

Bogardus notes that the Hiker Responsibility Code applies year-round, but there are special considerations for winter hiking. "Winter weather can be extreme, especially on the highest summits of the White Mountains, so anyone venturing to those areas absolutely must be prepared for bitter cold, strong winds and poor visibility - and must be ready to turn back if conditions become too difficult. Plus, the mix of weather we've received so far this season means that deep snows can be found in the forests, requiring snowshoes, yet in some places, icy slopes mean that special gear such as ice axes and crampons may be needed." According to Bogardus, it is often difficult to locate trails under deep snow cover, and "breaking trail" through that snow can require a great deal of extra effort.

Some locations have added hazards. "The Forest Service Snow Rangers on Mount Washington have noted a lot of avalanche activity this winter," adds Oreskes, "and similar hazards can be found in other areas, especially those with steep, open slopes. All backcountry visitors should be aware of avalanches and the special training and equipment needed for anyone who is traveling in potential avalanche terrain."

"In spite of the recent tragedies, most winter visitors to our state's forests and mountains have great experiences," says Bogardus, "and there's a better chance of having a happy ending if hikers follow the hikeSafe principles."

For more information about the hikeSafe program, visit http://www.hikesafe.com (http://www.hikesafe.com/) <http://www.hikesafe.com/>

For safety alerts and more information on the White Mountain National Forest, visit http://www.fs.fed.us/r9/forests/white_mountain.

The New Hampshire Outdoor Council is a major supporter of hikeSafe and search and rescue efforts throughout the state. Visit http://www.hikesafe.com/index.php/nh_outdoor_council.

The New Hampshire Fish and Game Department works in partnership with the public to conserve, manage and protect the state's fish, wildlife and marine resources and their habitats; inform and educate the public about these resources; and provide the public with opportunities to use and appreciate them. Visit http://www.WildNH.com (http://www.wildnh.com/) <http://www.wildnh.com/> .

fiddlehead
02-16-2008, 23:54
It's tough to prepare for 100 mph+ winds. Very tough. They'll blow you away if you are on a ridgeline.

Frosty
02-17-2008, 00:17
They were found on top of Little Haystack because their itinerary had them going to Mt. Lafayette. Yeah, we all know that Little Haystack was on the route. Thanks so much.

The reason they were found on Little Haystack because that is where they were, 30 hours later.

The question was why hadn't they gone back down rather than wait on top from Sunday noon to Monday night?

We may never know, but I'm always interested in why things happened the way they did.

SonoftheDead
02-17-2008, 11:36
Yeah, we all know that Little Haystack was on the route. Thanks so much.

The reason they were found on Little Haystack because that is where they were, 30 hours later.

The question was why hadn't they gone back down rather than wait on top from Sunday noon to Monday night?

We may never know, but I'm always interested in why things happened the way they did.


I believe they were heading back down the trail at the time. However due to the severe weather they were unable to reach the tree line before the cold overtook them. I can tell you from personal observation that Fred was not alive when he was taken off the mountain. More than likely they became hypothermic Sunday night and were unable to go much farther the following day as conditions didn't improve very much. Snowshoes are a prerequisite for winter hiking but the trail was probably quite packed down as there was about 30 people who hiked the trail the previous day and I don't think there was any snowfall over Sat. night.

In lighter news James is recovering well. He is off dialysis and a respirator, has regained consciousness and appears to have no memory loss up to when he lost consciousness.

As they say, "Hindsight is 20/20"
The world is a dangerous place and accidents happen all the time. If you hike in the winter in the White Mountains there are certain risks involved that no amount of planning will cover.
Most of us will die in bed with some disease or another when old age rears is inevitable head. I would say that the lucky few may die before we want them to; but they leave doing the things they love the most. For Fred this was hiking in the mountains, may he find peace forever more.

~Trevor

woodsy
02-17-2008, 17:50
[quote=rickb;539176]Good talk abou this, not for the family and stuff so much as to remind folks that it can be a serious place to hike.

Here is a story of another hiker:

http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2008/02/16/boston (http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2008/02/16/boston_hiker_missing_in_new_hampshire_mountains_12 03200544/)

Follow up on this incident (http://www.unionleader.com/article.aspx?headline=Hiker+rescued+from+Mount+Laf ayette&articleId=8912b202-2c16-4753-86a9-1b7e9ba122af)

Davis had planned to follow the same 9-mile loop that friends Laurence Frederickson of South Sutton and James Osborne of Manchester took on what was supposed to be a day hike last Sunday.This is just bizarre

ed bell
02-17-2008, 18:15
[quote]

Follow up on this incident (http://www.unionleader.com/article.aspx?headline=Hiker+rescued+from+Mount+Laf ayette&articleId=8912b202-2c16-4753-86a9-1b7e9ba122af)
This is just bizarreUnbelievable. :-? Strange, indeed.

mtnclmber
02-17-2008, 22:40
If I was stuck in the white mountains last weekend and I knew my only hope was the helicopters above, I would probably be above tree line as well. Some people don't understand how fast weather moves in especially in the winter in teh whites. Even if you're a very experienced mountaineer, putting up a tent may be all you can do before you're getting absolutely blasted up there and if you don't have a tent it's a hilarious thought that you could somehow make a shelter in the type of weather they had last weekend. People could barely drive in cars, never mind being out in the elements. I'd urge folks to use caution when writing phrases like "I can't believe they..." I wouldn't want to read that about a family member of mine who had just passed away.

Feral Bill
02-18-2008, 01:01
Years ago, I used to do winter hikes high in the Whites, including a couple of days stuck in the old Emmonds Col storm shelter in a whiteout. It may be impossible for those who haven't had this pleasure to understand that sometimes you simply can not move, not even a few yards. Even the best equipped and most careful can end up dead.

No one should judge these people harshly.

Condolances to the families.