View Full Version : Doughnut Holes on Picnic Tables
Which type of stove leaves those doughnut-like holes in the tops of the picnic tables?
Lone Wolf
02-14-2008, 13:29
alcohol stoves
Yeah.
Do your cooking on the ground or a nice rock if you have an alcohol stove.
This might be the "Latest" LNT topic.
chiefdaddy
02-14-2008, 13:48
I have seen a wood burning/twiggy stove do this.
bigmac_in
02-14-2008, 13:51
Doesn't the picnic table itself make a joke of LNT?
Lone Wolf
02-14-2008, 13:53
Doesn't the picnic table itself make a joke of LNT?
and the privy, fire pit, shelter, piped spring
I guess, maybe, but, then, so does a shelter, a trail, you (me).......
dessertrat
02-14-2008, 14:00
Animals don't practice leave no trace at all. Ever seen all the damage bears do to the trees? Hikers don't come close.
Ever seen all the damage bears do to the trees?
That's why a bear cannister is required on the JMT. Hanging your food only delays the bear taking it, and they'll damage the tree in order to do so.
Lone Wolf
02-14-2008, 14:06
Animals don't practice leave no trace at all. Ever seen all the damage bears do to the trees? Hikers don't come close.
when rock and i were hiking in the smoky's we came upon some high bush blueberries near charlies bunion. bears had broken the bushes in half to get the berries
Bears are EVIL!!!!!!!!!! :p
Tipi Walter
02-14-2008, 14:13
Animals don't practice leave no trace at all. Ever seen all the damage bears do to the trees? Hikers don't come close.
Since we're on the subject, I'd say bulldozers do more damage than bears.
BTW, Svea 123s always left a nice donut ring when excessively primed . . . I can still see the circles on my old ensolite pad.
Bulldozers dont mate and produce offspring in the wild.
One thing I always do is to put a piece of foil under my alcohol stove - its never marked a table yet and the foil reflecting heat helps a little with heating the water.
Tipi Walter
02-14-2008, 14:26
Bulldozers dont mate and produce offspring in the wild.
As any high school biology student can tell you, bulldozers are asexual and self-inseminating--big word--meaning they reproduce themselves. There's no end to them.
Alligator
02-14-2008, 14:27
Bulldozers dont mate and produce offspring in the wild.Yeah sure. Where do you think those little Bobcats come from. The Factory???
Back to alcohol, woodburning, etc. stoves....... a PLEA
PLEASE ........Think ahead when you use your alcohol stove. In a shelter, if you (or someone else) knock (s) it over, it could become a very real danger. Use it (and your wood burner) outside.
Thanks
Footslogger
02-14-2008, 14:32
Yeah sure. Where do you think those little Bobcats come from. The Factory???
========================
Now THERE'S a classic !!
'Slogger
As any high school biology student can tell you, bulldozers are asexual and self-inseminating--big word--meaning they reproduce themselves. There's no end to them.
Your saying A bulldozer has the ability to reproduce on its on? And you learned this in HS biology?
Pedaling Fool
02-14-2008, 14:49
Your saying A bulldozer has the ability to reproduce on its on? And you learned this in HS biology?
Of course, what'd they teach you in HS biology?
Bare Bear
02-14-2008, 14:49
An extra piece of tin foil works well as a wind screen and nderneath to keep the surface safe; and YES it should help reflect heat back to the water you are heating as well. Now about those Bear comments.......
Skidsteer
02-14-2008, 14:49
Yeah sure. Where do you think those little Bobcats come from. The Factory???
My Daddy was a bulldozer and momma was a trackhoe.
kytrailman
02-14-2008, 14:59
My momma was a snowblower!!!
Back to alcohol, woodburning, etc. stoves....... a PLEA
PLEASE ........Think ahead when you use your alcohol stove. In a shelter, if you (or someone else) knock (s) it over, it could become a very real danger. Use it (and your wood burner) outside.
Thanks
btw one safety advantage of alcohol is how easy they are to extinguish under emergency conditions - just pour water on the alcohol
LIhikers
02-14-2008, 16:43
Of course, what'd they teach you in HS biology?
I was busy in high school trying to figure out why we park in the driveway and drive on the parkway :)
Blissful
02-14-2008, 16:50
btw one safety advantage of alcohol is how easy they are to extinguish under emergency conditions - just pour water on the alcohol
For me it's turn the nozzle on my pocket rocket. :)
I never can see the flame with alcohol. To me it also seemed to make classic Ramen taste funny.
Blissful
02-14-2008, 16:51
I thought at first this thread was about eating. Sigh.
Its kinda hard to worry about stove rings on the picnic table when every Joe-Blow with a knife has to carve some trash talk in to the table.
mweinstone
02-14-2008, 17:20
this is a good thread. hang on matthewskis gonna take you all for a picinic.
heres what a picnic table can do unburnned ,and burnned.
unburnned picnic table can:
searve lunch
clean easy
not rot
last for its exspected lifetime
be cost efficient
be attractive
be clean and charcol free
give others a sence of proper behavior by not being burnned or carved
show elders that not all young hikers are distructive and disrespectful
as an example to show a hiker why he should not burn it
a burnned picnic table can:
be the straw that broke the volenteers and patrons of the trails back causing the total downfall of trails everywhere leading to the end of all mankind.
For me it's turn the nozzle on my pocket rocket. :)
I never can see the flame with alcohol. To me it also seemed to make classic Ramen taste funny.
to see the flame with alcohol add a little salt to the fuel in the fuel bottle - the sodium from the salt adds a yellow color to the flame
wrt to making ramen taste funny - can't say as that ever happened to me but then I use ziplock cooking and the pot I use for the water has a tight fitting lid
Alligator
02-14-2008, 17:57
to see the flame with alcohol add a little salt to the fuel in the fuel bottle - the sodium from the salt adds a yellow color to the flame
wrt to making ramen taste funny - can't say as that ever happened to me but then I use ziplock cooking and the pot I use for the water has a tight fitting lidOne of the alchol fuels I used to use had some other smelly compounds in it. I found that occasionally that smell was transferred. Could explain that taste. Especially since it was a Trangia and sometimes the stove had fuel in it.
minnesotasmith
02-14-2008, 18:17
and the privy, fire pit, shelter, piped spring
The anti-shelter weenies who come into (and lingers in) a trail shelter area long enough to look everything over and criticize it all, in detail. ;)
to see the flame with alcohol add a little salt to the fuel in the fuel bottle - the sodium from the salt adds a yellow color to the flame
wrt to making ramen taste funny - can't say as that ever happened to me but then I use ziplock cooking and the pot I use for the water has a tight fitting lid
I will have to try the salt thing. I just recently bought the caldera cone system to fit my snow peak 700. I also practice the ziplock cooking as well, allows less mess and while I am eating I can boil some more water for coffee or tea.
Lone Wolf
02-14-2008, 18:34
The anti-shelter weenies who come into (and lingers in) a trail shelter area long enough to look everything over and criticize it all, in detail. ;)
gotta pass the picnic table to leave stuff in the shelter
My momma was a snowblower!!!
Did she have a fine upper stage?
One thing I always do is to put a piece of foil under my alcohol stove - its never marked a table yet and the foil reflecting heat helps a little with heating the water.
I do the same thing
Your saying A bulldozer has the ability to reproduce on its on? And you learned this in HS biology?
Elementary!:eek: How you doing satchmo?
The anti-shelter weenies who Anti-shelter weenies? Why would you be a weenie because you camped in the woods? Seems to me it would be the other way around.
River Runner
02-15-2008, 04:17
Back to alcohol, woodburning, etc. stoves....... a PLEA
PLEASE ........Think ahead when you use your alcohol stove. In a shelter, if you (or someone else) knock (s) it over, it could become a very real danger. Use it (and your wood burner) outside.
Thanks
Some of the worst flames I've seen came from a white gas stove someone was using on a picnic table in a shelter. I guess he primed it too much & the flames shot about a foot high and looked like they completely encompassed the stove. I expected the whole thing to blow!
Some of the worst flames I've seen came from a white gas stove someone was using on a picnic table in a shelter. I guess he primed it too much & the flames shot about a foot high and looked like they completely encompassed the stove. I expected the whole thing to blow!
Having the stove encompassed in flame is not all that uncommon using a white gas stove, especially one without a pump. This flare-up during priming is why I NEVER primed my Svea inside a tent. I would on occasion bring it in for a couple of minutes once it was behaving itself to warm up the tent in the morning. Took only about a minute and I would have a 70* bedroom to get dressed in even on the coldest of mornings.
Disclaimer: This stunt was performed by a professional. Do not attempt this at home! :)
Doughnut
02-15-2008, 15:06
OK, this has gone on long enough:
I put the Dough Nut Holes there, to plant my Dino Eggs.
Picnic tables make great kindling for getting the shelter going.
Of course, what'd they teach you in HS biology?
How to make (and drink) wine and vodka! Something to do with little critters leaving their by-products behind. Or was that the "do you pack out your turds" thread?:-?
Picnic tables make great kindling for getting the shelter going.
This is not funny, at all. But it gave me a good chuckle. :D
This is not funny, at all. But it gave me a good chuckle. :D
I love the smell of roasted mice in the morning. :D
hootyhoo
02-15-2008, 18:16
and the privy, fire pit, shelter, piped spring
Does it? Or does it contain what would otherwise be scattered?
Ponder this Grasshopper.
Does it? Or does it contain what would otherwise be scattered?
Ponder this Grasshopper.
Everyone leaves a trace. Some more scatter-brained than others.
My Daddy was a bulldozer and momma was a trackhoe.
Don't use that "HOE" word. Remember what happened to Imas.:rolleyes:
dessertrat
02-16-2008, 13:53
Since we're on the subject, I'd say bulldozers do more damage than bears.
BTW, Svea 123s always left a nice donut ring when excessively primed . . . I can still see the circles on my old ensolite pad.
Just let me be clear here: I'm not for banning bears. But there is a reason bears need a lot of habitat, and do not have dense population patterns. They are a fairly destructive creature.
OregonHiker
02-16-2008, 15:21
Just let me be clear here: I'm not for banning bears. But there is a reason bears need a lot of habitat, and do not have dense population patterns. They are a fairly destructive creature.
Sometimes "destruction" by animals is a benefit to the ecosystem.
Sometimes "destruction" by animals is a benefit to the ecosystem.
They are, as are all the large animals. If you look it up, you will find lots about why certain ecosystems are the way they are, including the effect of large animals in clearing heavy brush and trees. Bears do push things over, and they can sound like a freight train going through heavy brush, but in most of their habitat they are not the most destructive creatures around. We are.
One of the things we tend to destroy is habitat, but early on in our pre-history we destroyed the megafauna on almost every continent as well as in the oceans. We did it with early neolithic weapons. It's just the way we are.
Trouble is, if we keep on doing it, we may be the last of the megafauna to go. If you want a simple definition of megafauna, it is animals at least as large as H. sapiens.
When modern humans reached Europe, there were beasts called cave bears roaming about, along with a bunch of other huge animals. A few thousand years later, they were all gone. On some continents it has taken longer, like Africa, where we first arose. I guess some of the animals there grew up with us, and had a few extra smarts to help them out. But all of the African megafauna is now pretty much endangered.
About the only large animals that seem to be doing well are some ungulates (mostly deer), a few stealthy predators (big cats) and the luckiest (most adaptable) ursids (black bear, brown bear in the wild north). I don't think the big predators would survive without protection. Brown and black bears are very versatile, which gives them an advantage over pure carnivores like the cats, and specialists like the tundra wolves.
So, animals change the habitat they inhabit. They all do, and bears are no exception. Check out the difference between a grazed (pasture) field and an ungrazed one (woodlot). Bears make trails in the woods, or use ones they find ready made (like the AT). So do all the other aniumals. Bears rip up downed trees and generally root about. Hogs do it even more.
Its not so much that bears benefit the ecosystem they inhabit as it is that both the bears and their habitat have co-evolved. That means they both changed over a long period of time to be compatible with each other. The difference between a bear in its habitat and a bulldozer is that the habitat has not had much time to adapt to the bulldozer, so a bulldozed habitat is out of balance. Like an overgrazed pasture. Modern farming is also an out of balance ecology. What it means is that you have to keep repairing the damage, because there is no automatic ecological mechanism that evolved to do it for you.
All of this ecological debate is about just this: Do we know enough about the damage we do to be able to repair it before we do it irreparable damage? If not, what must we do to permit the natural mechanisms to recover. If you think we do, then you have to foresee all the consequences of your actions down to the microbes in the soil and everything that lives there up to the largest flora and fauna, including us.
I don't think I am going too far to say that we don't know this much now, nor are we likely to in my lifetime, certainly. It's like Dirty Harry asking how lucky you feel staring down the barrel of a .44 Magnum. Is it empty? What if it isn't empty? What happens next if it isn't? The film gives the game away, but Mother Nature doesn't.