View Full Version : How to deal with other's conditioning?
timcar86
02-15-2008, 17:48
Hi, I'm pretty new to this site but would like to ask a serious question. A small group of us plan on hiking a short section of the AT in April (Clingman's Dome to Fontana Dam) and I know for sure at least on of our group is going to be horribly out of shape (smoker, overweight, no excersise, no training). I work out, hike frequently, try to watch what I eat and don't smoke. I know that she'll lag behind during the hike and I was wondering what others do when they have a person in the group that slows everyone else down? I'm certainly not a speed hiker and we've give ourselves ample time to sightsee during the trip (3 days).
timcar86
02-15-2008, 17:50
Leave her behind.
LOL
Unfortunately that's not a good option...
Take it easy, hike ahead till you get to a nice view sit back and wait. Bring a good long book.
River Runner
02-15-2008, 17:52
Hi, I'm pretty new to this site but would like to ask a serious question. A small group of us plan on hiking a short section of the AT in April (Clingman's Dome to Fontana Dam) and I know for sure at least on of our group is going to be horribly out of shape (smoker, overweight, no excersise, no training). I work out, hike frequently, try to watch what I eat and don't smoke. I know that she'll lag behind during the hike and I was wondering what others do when they have a person in the group that slows everyone else down? I'm certainly not a speed hiker and we've give ourselves ample time to sightsee during the trip (3 days).
Learn to take lots of rest breaks in scenic spots. I generally will tell the group I'm hiking ahead a bit & stop in the first scenic area. The hard part is making myself rest longer than I want so that they get a break too.
You might want to take some good reading material. :D
wrongway_08
02-15-2008, 17:55
Try to walk slower and take a little longer breaks for her.
It will be hard to wait for long times for her. You might want to bring radios for you and her (or who ever is in the lead) can keep in contact. Walmart sells some decent hand helds that will reach up to 1.5 miles.
River Runner
02-15-2008, 17:55
Funny,
Hobojoe & I had the same idea, he just beat me to the reply button.
Footslogger
02-15-2008, 17:56
We go through that from time to time. You really have one of two choices, from my experience:
- You can have her lead, which might get on your (and her) nerves
or
- You can agree up front to hike your own respective paces and decide in advance on meeting places ahead on the trail. This is what we do. If I hit a road crossing or "V" in the trail I always just chill and wait for her to catch up. That has worked for us for over 10 years now. Of course, we're not talking about the two of us being hours apart either.
'Slogger
to be horribly out of shape (smoker, overweight, no excersise, no training). I work out, hike frequently, try to watch what I eat and don't smoke. I know that she'll lag behind during the hike and I was wondering what
You may want to encourage this person to start exercising and training. No matter how easy you take it, a person that out of shape will NOT enjoy the hike.
Some initial walking around the block to start will do wonders for a person who does not exercise.
You may also find that to accommodate her, you'll have to do a much easier trip than initially planned. Otherwise everyone will be miserable.
A five mile day for a beginner backpacker, esp. one with is an overweight smoker who does not exercise, is about the upper end you want to do.
depending on the dynamics of the situation it may be a good idea to carry some of her gear especial the heavy stuff - my view however is on the order of if a hiker can't do the distance at their own pace with all their gear then the hiker should not do the hike - I am a slow hiker but the group hikes I go on are generally of the sort where everyone knows where the campsite for the night is and everyone takes responsibility for getting there on their own - this works for me better than having the other hikers stop along the way just waiting for me to show up.
ChinMusic
02-15-2008, 18:06
I've been on both ends of this equation. There are groups were I am the slowest and groups where I lead. Your daily pace IS pretty much limited to what the slowest member can handle, unless they understand and agree to be left. Hiking at someone else's pace can be unpleasant. I think HYOH, take breaks at nice places, and wait.
Hi, I'm pretty new to this site but would like to ask a serious question. A small group of us plan on hiking a short section of the AT in April (Clingman's Dome to Fontana Dam) and I know for sure at least on of our group is going to be horribly out of shape (smoker, overweight, no excersise, no training). I work out, hike frequently, try to watch what I eat and don't smoke. I know that she'll lag behind during the hike and I was wondering what others do when they have a person in the group that slows everyone else down? I'm certainly not a speed hiker and we've give ourselves ample time to sightsee during the trip (3 days).Insist she pack light and then carry her heaviest items.
Try to walk slower and take a little longer breaks for her.
It will be hard to wait for long times for her. You might want to bring radios ...
You may want to encourage this person to start exercising and training. No matter how easy you take it, a person that out of shape will NOT enjoy the hike. ...
What they said. The radios will not work all the time (line of sight) and can turn into a dependency hassle, but they can also alleviate separation anxiety. She may also be an uncertain pathfinder, so the radio will help keep her on track. Remember that when you zoom out of sight in seconds, and are always ahead of her, it will be very deflating for her. Support her as much as you can. Carry water and snacks for her (encouragement to get to the next stop), but not all of them, of course. And make sure she is not overloaded. If she is, it will break her spirit until she is hooked and in shape.
I would not go out with someone who can't do a couple of miles on park trails without complaint. The risk of injury is too high, and she won't enjoy it anyway. But anyone who can do a couple of miles cheerfully can do farther with rest breaks. Get used to the slower pace.
Consider her lack of conditioning an injury, disability or disease. Don't tell her that, but that's what it is. If you take her on, you have to help her heal at the right pace.
The trip's itinerary should be commensurate with the ability of the participants. The trip leader should consider the skill and ability of the participants and plan accordingly.
You know from the onset this will not be a speed hike. Adjust your mindset accordingly, and you can still have fun.
River Runner
02-15-2008, 18:30
You may want to encourage this person to start exercising and training. No matter how easy you take it, a person that out of shape will NOT enjoy the hike.
Some initial walking around the block to start will do wonders for a person who does not exercise.
You may also find that to accommodate her, you'll have to do a much easier trip than initially planned. Otherwise everyone will be miserable.
A five mile day for a beginner backpacker, esp. one with is an overweight smoker who does not exercise, is about the upper end you want to do.
Mags is absolutely right on here. I did not think enough before I posted. A trip the length you are contemplating is going to be very difficult for someone this out of shape, especially with the type of elevation change that the AT has.
She does need to start exercising and start training with a pack if she is set on going on this trip. You also need to have a bail out plan in case she absolutely cannot make it. Another thing is that she should probably have a physical before going. Her doctor might advise against a trip like this for someone so out of shape.
Is she experienced in hiking/outdoors and just out of shape? If so then the hike ahead and wait would work. If she is a total newb, then I would think it would be wise and more comforting for her is you stayed close-by.
As others said, it all depends on the dynamics of the situation. Slowing your pace to match a slow hiker can be as difficult and tiring as increasing your pace to match a faster hiker. Unfortunately, this is one of the trade-offs we have to make when leading a group. Whatever the situation, you, as the experienced and defacto leader, are responsible not only for her safety, but ultimately her enjoyment. It is up to you to see to both. (unless of course she has bullied her way into the group!) :-)
This is one very real advantage to hiking solo.
I'm with the people who think it's not just a question of speed, but of whether this person can make the hike at all. I have run into several groups having a similar problem. Either the whole group has to abandon the hike, or the person who wasn't prepared has to get off on his/her own.
If this person absolutely has to be included in the group, you might want to consider other places to hike, where it would not be nearly as difficult for someone to quit on morning #2, for instance.
Another option would be to take a dayhike between now and then, of about the length of your planned daily distance. This might be an eye-opener for your friend, and she'll either get her butt in gear, or give up on the idea of going along.
timcar86
02-15-2008, 19:10
She's very insistant on going and I just don't have the heart to tell her that she should start lighter. I've dropped hints on getting shape and she claims to be "walking" but everytime I try to get details on how far or how long she just says "down the street". One of the worst things is that she thinks she's healthy. Often she'll tell me that I should hope to be in good as shape as her at her age (45ish). I think the whole issue I have is that she's somewhat disillusioned(sp) that she'll be able to keep up.
I like the advice of being able to stop at certain landmarks and beginning the trip with that expectation. I think that'll be the route I go.
timcar86
02-15-2008, 19:13
Another option would be to take a dayhike between now and then, of about the length of your planned daily distance. This might be an eye-opener for your friend, and she'll either get her butt in gear, or give up on the idea of going along.
That's exactly what we have planned. I think I'm going to see if I can find the most difficult short hike I can to try and give her some idea of what she's in for.
~ I think I'm going to see if I can find the most difficult short hike I can to try and give her some idea of what she's in for.
And if she keeps-up and doesn't complain, marry her.
Programbo
02-15-2008, 19:17
She's very insistant on going and I just don't have the heart to tell her that she should start lighter. I've dropped hints on getting shape and she claims to be "walking" but everytime I try to get details on how far or how long she just says "down the street". One of the worst things is that she thinks she's healthy. Often she'll tell me that I should hope to be in good as shape as her at her age (45ish). I think the whole issue I have is that she's somewhat disillusioned(sp) that she'll be able to keep up..
I suggest taking her on a longer dayhike somewhere and letting her see what she`s in for and how far behind she`ll fall before commiting to a 3 day trip with packs..Otherwise all your planning may end in disaster
and I know for sure at least on of our group is going to be horribly out of shape (smoker, overweight, no excersise, no training). I work out, hike frequently, try to watch what I eat and don't smoke.
Plenty of chain smokers are very strong hikers. They won't be after their first MI, but as young pups do very well on the Trail.
I'm faster up hill than my brother, but he's faster down hill than me. We just sort of wait for each other on the flat spots!!
... I've dropped hints on getting shape and she claims to be "walking" but everytime I try to get details on how far or how long she just says "down the street". One of the worst things is that she thinks she's healthy. Often she'll tell me that I should hope to be in good as shape as her at her age (45ish). I think the whole issue I have is that she's somewhat disillusioned(sp) that she'll be able to keep up. ...
Delusional? If that is the case, and it sound like it is, you should be very careful how you handle it. If you force her pace, she may well get an overuse injury, even a difficult one like cartilage or tendon. She has likely wasted these tissues, and needs to build them up over time. A few day hikes will not cut it. She need to do as much as she can do daily for several months. If she can keep at it, her progress will be phenomenal, but most find it difficult.
If you are stuck with a delusional, unfit, dependent hiker, be prepared for her to drop out the first day. You must have a bailout plan for an exhausted, cranky, possibly incapacitated woman. Fortunately, she will probably bail before she injures herself. If she toughs it out, you will be stuck with whatever miles she can do. Grin and bear it. And by the way, if she is really out of shape, and toughs it out, she will be really sore by day two or three, and probably won't recover for a couple of weeks or longer, if the stress gets to her.
If she's been a mom for most of her life, she'll be tougher than she may look. 45 is still below the threshold for most debilitation,and having kids is a conditioning exercise of a sort. No-one can tell but you and her. Just be prepared and let her decide.
Blissful
02-15-2008, 19:33
I saw lots of thru hikers smoking last year.
Much depends on attitude on everyone's part. If she wants to do it, knowing how difficult it might be, fantastic. So what if she's slow? Be good to give as much encouragement and have fun at this, not make it a drudgery everyone will regret. If you are already having doubts and no one is willing to work with the other and their limitations, then it might be better to stick to day hikes.
...horribly out of shape...will lag behind...insistent...disillusioned... unless she's a trooper extraordinaire, odds are likely your friend will injure herself. Joy.
Pedaling Fool
02-15-2008, 20:02
I can't add anything to all the great advice, I just wanted to tell you to let us know what happened on your hike. I'm hooked:D
God bless you timcar. I would have neither the patience not intestinal fortitude for that. The very difficult day hike is a GREAT idea.
The 375 lb co-worker who wanted to "short hike" with me went 40 minutes until he decided he had to stop--for the day. And he was a former back packer and big game hunter.
Good luck
Frau
Someone in the group should always be hiking with her. It's one thing for experienced hikers to decide amongst themselves to each hike their own pace, but another thing entirely in your situation, I think. For one thing, you don't want to risk leaving an injured hiker behind.
But most importantly, it feels horrible to be the one left behind. It feels like when you're school age and the cool kids decide to ditch you.
The Smokies have enough interesting trails branching off the AT that hikers who are going on ahead can take some short side hikes and back so they are not waiting around all the time. And the rest of you can take turns hiking with the slower hiker. Set short goals, periodically, especially on that first day.
You may not feel like you're a speed hiker but 32.4 miles (Clingman's to Fontana) is a lot of ground to cover (probably too much) in three days for a group with as much variance in ability level as yours.
timcar86
02-15-2008, 20:23
Well, I appreciate all of the advice and I'll try to give some updates from time to time.
The pre-hike is a great idea.
Another idea is to have her be the first to leave camp in the morning. Instead of sitting on the side of the trail in the morning, you could just have a little more of a leisurely morning. It will also be better for her mentally to start out ahead than always be lagging behind.
I have dealt with this situation many times as a professional. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
You need to understand that this issue goes beyond how quickly she will hike, and how to manage her slow speed. If you are the trip leader, then it is your responsibility to work this out. Do not allow default to "wishful thinking." You have an obligation to take care of her if she is on your trip.
If she is in as bad a shape as you suggest, she represents a real threat to the trip success and her presence can compromise the safety of everyone. Any health condition that she may experience on the trip means that you must dedicate resources to taking care of her: sprained ankle, swollen knee, heat exhaustion, fatigue, allergic reaction to insects, as well as the more dire conditions of heart attack and stroke. The back country is unforgiving for the last two.
Insist on a shakedown day hike for everyone SOON, similar to the most difficulty & distance of the 3-day trip. Failure to participate = can't go on trip. You, and the rest of your group, will have "real data" to address the issue. Maybe it will inspire her to get in shape. Even going on weekend "preparation" day hikes in nearby parks will have a useful, and positive, impact.
Depending on how well she does, tailor the trip to her abilities. Stay in cabins and day hike, take a less strenuous trip, or go for it. But if you are organizing this trip, at some level, the burden is on YOU to make prudent decisions.
Wise Old Owl
02-15-2008, 22:19
I am with Mags on this one she will not enjoy the hike, Take her to the mall before it opens and walk around all the stores till she gets a couple miles under her belt. Then off to day hikes, everyone gave good advice here she has to work for it. When she can do 5 miles without a thought or a "drink" of water then she is up to the task.
Make her try to take the pebble. Kung Fu
http://www.kungfu-guide.com/img_wb/462001111529279khan.jpg
She's very insistant on going and I just don't have the heart to tell her that she should start lighter. I've dropped hints on getting shape and she claims to be "walking" but everytime I try to get details on how far or how long she just says "down the street". One of the worst things is that she thinks she's healthy. Often she'll tell me that I should hope to be in good as shape as her at her age (45ish). I think the whole issue I have is that she's somewhat disillusioned(sp) that she'll be able to keep up.
I like the advice of being able to stop at certain landmarks and beginning the trip with that expectation. I think that'll be the route I go.
sometimes it takes a trip like this one to really open their eyes. Hike your own hike,set meeting points or destinations and let reality set in:confused:
Appalachian Tater
02-15-2008, 22:39
You're probably right about her having trouble and you're getting a lot of good advice.
Definitely prepare for her to bail out. However, she might surprise you.
Flush2wice
02-15-2008, 22:57
This will likely be a disaster for her. How many people are in the trip? Someone needs to be assigned to her and be ready to bail. She might make it 2-3 hours then go back to the car. I'd suggest having a plan in place that she can bail and the rest of you don't have to ruin your trip. Don't baby her. Plan your trip and stick to it. If she can't hang, she needs to be a big girl and be ready to turn around and go back by herself, or with someone who volunteers to take care of her.
This is a hard situation. Hiking from Clingmans to Fontana doesn't really give you options for a bail out. WOW, I do not envy you or her. Some people just do not get it unless they experience it. It's sort of like all the people on shows like American Idol who think they can sing and don't understand why they weren't 'going to Hollywood'.
It all boils down to what you think is right. IMO, I would tell her your concerns. If she can't or won't understand then it is her issue to deal with. BUT if you feel you and the others can handle the situation go for it. You never know, she may surprise you. Gungho and I learned the hard way too. But we were only doing a 1 nighter too.
Good luck and let us know how things go for you. Happy hiking.:sun
Flush2wice has the right idea (or at least it's what I would do - and have done). If an experienced hiker can commit to staying with her, stopping early, camping, turning back, whatever it takes to make her hike memorable and enjoyable, I think that's what should be done. If you have co-leaders, as many professionally led hikes do, one should stay behind the group, one ahead, and communicate by cell phone or 2 way radio.
In short, someone should be willing to hike HER hike.
Print this thread and mail it to her…:p
minnesotasmith
02-16-2008, 02:31
And if she keeps-up and doesn't complain, marry her.
The financial and other risks for men in American divorce courts are such that marriage is arguably only possibly worth the risk if children are intended, and a 45-YO woman is past the part of her life where that's a realistic option. Re the companionship, etc., part; the old saw about when you can get the milk for free comes to mind...
River Runner
02-16-2008, 02:39
The financial and other risks for men in American divorce courts are such that marriage is arguably only possibly worth the risk if children are intended, and a 45-YO woman is past the part of her life where that's a realistic option. Re the companionship, etc., part; the old saw about when you can get the milk for free comes to mind...
Along with why buy the whole pig when all you want is a little sausage. :mad:
Along with why buy the whole pig when all you want is a little sausage. :mad:
One of the best come-backs I've ever read on Whiteblaze. Way to go, Pam! :D
minnesotasmith
02-16-2008, 02:46
Along with why buy the whole pig when all you want is a little sausage. :mad:
It's not the women in divorce court that do all the involuntary paying for nothing in return. (She gets half or more of his assets and future income, he gets what % of her future sex and labor?)
minnesotasmith
02-16-2008, 02:54
I agree that a shakedown hike is essential for someone who wishes to come along on a fairly serious multiday hike. I also agree that they should expect her to bail out only partway into the first day. Her having car keys and her own vehicle at the trail head sounds wise, along with arranging to not need anything from her (gear/money/supplies/transportation) in the event she does quit in the first 2 hours.
I turned 45 during my thruhike, and was definitely on the heavy side at Amicalola. However, I don't smoke, do eat nutritiously, did a shakedown of 90% of the AT in Georgia the year before, had been walking for couple months before my hike, had no one else's pace dependent on mine, and had a personal past of high school athletics/Boy Scouts, so was not new to laboring up hills in all weather. Not sure if the woman in the story has any of those going for her...:eek:
River Runner
02-16-2008, 02:54
It's not the women in divorce court that do all the involuntary paying for nothing in return. (She gets half or more of his assets and future income, he gets what % of her future sex and labor?)
What world do you live in? Times have changed from the 1960's. Few women get alimony at all these days, those that do only get it for a few years in most cases.
And what about him getting 1/2 of her assets? After all, most married couples own things jointly.
I personally know of some cases where the woman ended up paying alimony. Wake up and join the 21st century. :rolleyes:
minnesotasmith
02-16-2008, 03:07
What world do you live in? Times have changed from the 1960's. Few women get alimony at all these days, those that do only get it for a few years in most cases.
And what about him getting 1/2 of her assets? After all, most married couples own things jointly.
I personally know of some cases where the woman ended up paying alimony. Wake up and join the 21st century. :rolleyes:
Just BC you read about Britney Spears paying some, doesn't mean it's common for women to. Like child support, where women are told to pay less, and less often, than men, and have lower compliance rates, with fewer average legal consequences than do men, they have a freer ride in the event of divorce where they get told to pay some alimony for a while.
Oh, and men who are primary caregivers for the children during marriage nearly always do NOT get child custody in divorce unless the ex-wife does not want it. The men can also expect to get told to make CS payments as if they still had careers.
Most child support (e.g., any above what states have decided is the REAL cost to adequately care for children, their reimbursement rates for foster care) is disguised alimony. CS does not end upon remarriage the way alimony does. There is no requirement that CS be spent on the kids, and in fact estimates are that only something like 20-40% of it is in fact spent to benefit kids in any way. More than a little of it goes for boob jobs, the new BF, nice new sporty car for the woman who walked out on her husband (70+ of divorces are filed for, and thus caused by the women).
Lastly, more than one state divides up premaritally-acquired assets in divorce. Men are more likely to have jobs/degrees/careers that pay better (through harder studies, harder/more unpleasant work, NOT discrimination against women), and be older at time of marriage, so men are more likely to get screwed this way, too.
Need I go on, or will you concede the point now?
minnesotasmith
02-16-2008, 03:09
"+" should have read "%".
Well, MS, I guess you win again. How is this related to this thread, exactly? Oh yes, a passing quip. Yup, right again.
River Runner
02-16-2008, 03:19
Like child support, where women are told to pay less,
Men are more likely to have jobs/degrees/careers that pay better
Need I go on, or will you concede the point now?
Hm. Wonder if the first has anything to do with the second?
Do go on. I find it fascinating. I thought male chauvinism died out in the 80's. Obviously I was wrong.
minnesotasmith
02-16-2008, 03:21
Hm. Wonder if the first has anything to do with the second?
Do go on. I find it fascinating. I thought male chauvinism died out in the 80's. Obviously I was wrong.
Accuracy in anything is NOT "male chauvinism". You're not a "Third-Wave" feminist who considers Cartesian logic a masculine construct, susceptible to being outlawed, do you?
River Runner
02-16-2008, 03:44
Accuracy in anything is NOT "male chauvinism". You're not a "Third-Wave" feminist who considers Cartesian logic a masculine construct, susceptible to being outlawed, do you?
Whatever dude. Enjoy your antiquated thinking along with your free milk. Just don't be surprised if what you get is spoiled. ;)
minnesotasmith
02-16-2008, 05:41
Whatever dude. Enjoy your antiquated thinking along with your free milk. Just don't be surprised if what you get is spoiled. ;)
For anyone who wants to learn more about what I was talking about, here are a couple of links:
http://stephenbaskerville.net/criminalization_of_fatherhood.htm
www.glennsacks.com (http://www.glennsacks.com)
A piece on feminism's 3rd Wave, and how "modern" women in the West routinely misunderstand their life options and screw their lives up: http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig/fiori3.html
Classic site on understanding how women are attracted to (and not to) men: www.laddertheory.com (http://www.laddertheory.com)
Mountain Dew
02-16-2008, 06:16
OK...you two get a room !!! :D And let me and Lone Wolf watch through the window. lol...classic WB members going at it. I think I love both of you. :sun
"Love" isn't a word I'd use to describe my feelings about someone who spews bile about 9/10ths of humanity.
I like the Mirror Principle. If something goes wrong and you're casting around for someone to blame...first, look in the mirror.
minnesotasmith
02-16-2008, 06:37
"Love" isn't a word I'd use to describe my feelings about someone who spews bile about 9/10ths of humanity.
I like the Mirror Principle. If something goes wrong and you're casting around for someone to blame...first, look in the mirror.
Out of curiosity, did you use this principle to understand what went on on 9/11, or in the recent case of the murdered hikers in Georgia?
Mountain Dew
02-16-2008, 06:38
Good point M-Smith
Out of curiosity, did you use this principle to understand what went on on 9/11, or in the recent case of the murdered hikers in Georgia?
Yeah, actually I did. This isn't the political forum, though, so I'm not going to go there.
That look in the mirror can lead to the conclusion that the thing is not entirely, most, or at all your own fault.
But in the case of divorce...that seems unlikely.
Hi, I'm pretty new to this site but would like to ask a serious question. A small group of us plan on hiking a short section of the AT in April (Clingman's Dome to Fontana Dam) and I know for sure at least on of our group is going to be horribly out of shape (smoker, overweight, no excersise, no training). I work out, hike frequently, try to watch what I eat and don't smoke. I know that she'll lag behind during the hike and I was wondering what others do when they have a person in the group that slows everyone else down? I'm certainly not a speed hiker and we've give ourselves ample time to sightsee during the trip (3 days).
I have a friend like that, even though I am still a novice, but pasionate about these "Green Mountains", she hikes at a much slower pace than I. Like you I am not a speed hiker. I try to keep her in view but we each maintain our own speed. At time I will hike along side of her and we engage in conversation, which either slows me down or speeds her up, but either way it works. You friend, after a tree day hike will either not want to go back or will get serious about getting into shape. Please let me know how the hike is, have never been on those trails will have to check into them. Good luck......
Agehya
notorius tic
02-16-2008, 06:55
Hike your own Hike let tthem play catch up (ups delivers) on time or your $ is returned<:
Critterman
02-16-2008, 10:37
The financial and other risks for men in American divorce courts are such that marriage is arguably only possibly worth the risk if children are intended, and a 45-YO woman is past the part of her life where that's a realistic option. Re the companionship, etc., part; the old saw about when you can get the milk for free comes to mind...
You are a hopeless romantic. :D
I was an overweight, smoking, out of shape, female hiker when I did the Georgia section in 2006.
I made it but it was slow. I couldn't have done 32 miles in 3 days. I did around 7-8 on average. I say take her but look at the mileage. It might be a bit much. I like hiking myself during the day and it's nice to know that someone will be at a designated spot at the end of the day and at lunch.
Now I am an overweight, non-smoking, semi out of shape, female hiker and alot stronger than some people like to think.
She may surprise you.
If I may make some comments on other's posts. I am a very overweight femal hiker approaching fifty and maybe I can shed some light on how she might feel.
depending on the dynamics of the situation it may be a good idea to carry some of her gear especial the heavy stuff - my view however is on the order of if a hiker can't do the distance at their own pace with all their gear then the hiker should not do the hike - I am a slow hiker but the group hikes I go on are generally of the sort where everyone knows where the campsite for the night is and everyone takes responsibility for getting there on their own - this works for me better than having the other hikers stop along the way just waiting for me to show up.
Do not carry any of her gear unless she asks you to. I would be mortified if someone sees me struggling up a hill and suggests I hand over some of my gear. It would be an insult. I know I'm overweight, I don't need a good samaratin to point out the obvious.
She's very insistant on going and I just don't have the heart to tell her that she should start lighter. I've dropped hints on getting shape and she claims to be "walking" but everytime I try to get details on how far or how long she just says "down the street". One of the worst things is that she thinks she's healthy. Often she'll tell me that I should hope to be in good as shape as her at her age (45ish). I think the whole issue I have is that she's somewhat disillusioned(sp) that she'll be able to keep up.
I like the advice of being able to stop at certain landmarks and beginning the trip with that expectation. I think that'll be the route I go.
The landmark idea is a good one. The last thing she needs or wants will be pressure to have to keep up. This is one of the reasons I rarely go on group hikes. I can never keep up, and some do gooder will inevitably make a suggestion that hurts. Be sure though, that at that landmark, when she gets there, you stay put for awhile. I went on a group hike at Fiery Gizzard trail, and everytime I caught up to the group resting, they'd take off. They were good to wait for me to make sure I was still with them, but boy, the pressure to keep up on that trip left me with hardly any break time. I quit group hikes after that.
This will likely be a disaster for her. How many people are in the trip? Someone needs to be assigned to her and be ready to bail. She might make it 2-3 hours then go back to the car. I'd suggest having a plan in place that she can bail and the rest of you don't have to ruin your trip. Don't baby her. Plan your trip and stick to it. If she can't hang, she needs to be a big girl and be ready to turn around and go back by herself, or with someone who volunteers to take care of her.
Give a person more credit than that. She knows she's going to be hiking in the Smokies. Unless she lives under a rock, she's got to know it is hard hiking. I was 70lbs overweight the first time I put a backpack on. I didn't know what to expect. Hit Neel's gap and started hiking. It was the hardest thing I'd done physically in 20 years. I loved it. To assume someone will want to bail and not be able to make it because they are overweight and inexperienced is wrong. Assume she will make it, and don't give bail out options to her. Know them yourself, but keep them to yourself unless asked for them. Again, you want to insult and hurt and overweight person? Assume they can't do it and plan for their failure, that should do the trick.
Flush2wice has the right idea (or at least it's what I would do - and have done). If an experienced hiker can commit to staying with her, stopping early, camping, turning back, whatever it takes to make her hike memorable and enjoyable, I think that's what should be done. If you have co-leaders, as many professionally led hikes do, one should stay behind the group, one ahead, and communicate by cell phone or 2 way radio.
In short, someone should be willing to hike HER hike.
Do not give her a babysitter, however, approaching the professionally led hike situation, is a great idea. Set up a leader and a sweeper. The sweeper should be one that doesn't mind hiking slow. Also, the sweeper needs to stay off her heels. I went on one hike where the sweeper stayed less than two feet behind me the whole way. I felt like I was being rushed and felt the need to go faster than I felt comfortable with. Don't push her pace, or she may get injured simply by going faster than is comfortable for her.
Hope this helps. Being in the pressure of a group is what caused me to seek solo hiking.
Appalachian Tater
02-16-2008, 11:09
It's not the women in divorce court that do all the involuntary paying for nothing in return. (She gets half or more of his assets and future income, he gets what % of her future sex and labor?)
Really, what you need is a hooker. That way you'll know in advance what your bill is and her pay will be above the federal minimum wage. Best of all, she won't have to pretend she enjoys it or have to cook breakfast or make up the bed in the morning.
Definitely do not get married since you see it in these terms. Sometimes when a genetic line stops there are good reasons. Accept that, even if it's your own.
- You can agree up front to hike your own respective paces and decide in advance on meeting places ahead on the trail....If I hit a road crossing or "V" in the trail I always just chill and wait for her to catch up.
'Slogger
This is good if the parties are of reasonable navigational skill. The scenario under debate does not seem like this will be true. Even in the best of cases, navigational mishaps occur.
Example: On the Bartram Trail, I hiked as "sweeper" with a self-led group that had split into 2. Both sub-groups were competent with map and compass, but one group got distracted. They completely missed a "V" in the trail. One went one way, another the other, and the ensuing confusion in finding one another burned almost 3 hours from the day. This was in nice weather, too.
Radios would have been of doubtful use, since the tree cover was so thick, as it is in the Smokies.
Give a person more credit than that. She knows she's going to be hiking in the Smokies. Unless she lives under a rock, she's got to know it is hard hiking. I
LilRed,
She may NOT know how hard the Smokies are, or any other place. Witness the motley crew that begin the AT every year. They form fantasies (as I did) about how wonderful hiking is in the beautiful wooded mountains.
And then reality sets in.
Her ignorance, and denial regarding her physical conditioning make her a hazard to herself and to the group. If the group wants to take her on as a special, known objective hazard, then that is their choice. But all should know the potential outcomes of this decision.
Maybe the best will come of it, but to go into it with simply wishful thinking is to invite real problems.
Grumpy5280
02-16-2008, 11:40
You are making too big a deal of it BR360.
Either she'll be fine, or she won't. Don't sweat it.
Maybe everyone should just go bowling and hav a nice drive thru the mtns. Franklin has a nice bowling alley.
Appalachian Tater
02-16-2008, 11:40
Anyone in that group could stumble, fall, and become a "hazard" much worse than this woman.
timcar86
02-16-2008, 11:46
We can put a stop to all the "marriage" posts right now. Let's just say she likes to play on the all girls team.
And before anyone thinks that has anything to do with anything, your wrong. She's a very fun person who I consider a good friend.
Appalachian Tater
02-16-2008, 11:50
We can put a stop to all the "marriage" posts right now. Let's just say she likes to play on the all girls team.
And before anyone thinks that has anything to do with anything, your wrong. She's a very fun person who I consider a good friend.Darn. She's going to miss out on half of Minnesota Smith's wealth and future income, along with all of the other "goodies".
splash1986
02-16-2008, 11:51
Take her to a fairly long staircase and have her walk up and down a few times. If she gets to the top huffing and puffing, it may be a good time to make a friendly suggestion about how much harder climbing a mountain is compared to climbing stairs.
My fiancee is somewhat overweight and is slow, but she hikes with me regularly and knows what hiking the AT in the Smokies is like. She would NEVER consider Clingman's to Fontana in just three days (She's seen the profiles and is trying to convince me to take five days for this section this summer though I think we can compromise with four).
I would strongly recommend giving her some "alternates" if she starts walking and realizes this is much tougher than she expected. There are MANY ways down to the Cades Cove area and the campground there. If she gets going and realizes she is not going to do this in 3 days (and 3 isn't all that much, even heading south), arrange for a partner and her to take their time working their way to Cades Cove, and you can pick them up on day three. Of course the partner or she will have to carry a tent/tarp of some kind, and will be off-permit for the second night out, but this is much less an issue than making her torture herself for the rest of the trip, arriving well after dark, if at all.
And of course, you may be underestimating her. She may be a bit slow, but will complete the trip with no problem. You'll know fairly quickly, probably by mid-way through the first day.
We can put a stop to all the "marriage" posts right now. Let's just say she likes to play on the all girls team.
And before anyone thinks that has anything to do with anything, your wrong. She's a very fun person who I consider a good friend.
Mapman had a very good post.
Alot of others also.
Walk around the block, or short dayhike might help you make a new plan if needed.
Good friend may mean going in one mile and camping. Dayhike, while others watch the waterfall.
dessertrat
02-16-2008, 14:09
It's not the women in divorce court that do all the involuntary paying for nothing in return. (She gets half or more of his assets and future income, he gets what % of her future sex and labor?)
Oversimplistic in most states, MinnesotaSmith.
She gets a certain award based upon marital property, not pre-marital assets or property, unless he was dumb enough to add her to the title to something, etc. In other words, the married couple shares in the joint rewards of the marriage, not all property owned pre and post marriage. The grounds for divorce, etc., can influence how much that award is.
Also, if the husband makes less than the wife, he gets an award too.
Have you ever been divorced, MS?
Disclaimer: A member of the bar in only one state, yadda yadda.
Critterman
02-16-2008, 14:46
We can put a stop to all the "marriage" posts right now. Let's just say she likes to play on the all girls team.
And before anyone thinks that has anything to do with anything, your wrong. She's a very fun person who I consider a good friend.
I think she is lucky to have a good friend like you whatever team she plays on.
I like Lilred's comments. I have been both the slowest and the fastest hiker in small group situations. I find it is best to let the slower person lead the way and stay a short distance behind. One of my biggest regrets is unknowingly leaving a hiker behind in the Smokies. I thought she had turned around with a couple of others when the snow got heavy, but she hadn't. She was huffing and puffing along behind me. I found out when we all got turned around to head back to Fontana in the blizzard. She went home after that.
We hike with a group of 4 other hikers (two other hikers) sometimes. We all know one another, but when we first started hiking together, we had a hiker, a woman, who looked like she wasn't going to make it as far as she did--she actually was much tougher than she looked. She often chooses to do shorter hikes now than the rest of us. We like 100-200 mile sections, she likes to get off after 30 to 40. No biggie--but what we did learn, when we hike as a group, is that you are really only as fast as your slowest hiker. I don't about anyone else, but I have had an experience where we lost a slower hiker (he hiked on past the shelter on a very cold afternoon) and we never saw him til later the next day. Very scary. I'd never leave a newbie alone again. When we agree to hike as couples, we make sure we are paired off--not always with our spouses, just with someone who can match a similar pace. Safety thing for us.
Gum
River Runner
02-16-2008, 15:57
OK...you two get a room !!!
:eek:
And let me and Lone Wolf watch through the window.
:eek::eek:
lol...classic WB members going at it.
http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/ad/fence.gif
I think I love both of you. :sun
:D
Ok,
On the topic of a hiker slower than the group..if you want to keep the group together with possibly less friction, try caterpillaring. Most likely her problems will be on the uphills so what you do is, once she starts to struggle, tell her to walk 10 steps and then stop, the person behind her walks 10 steps past her and stops, etc, etc, when the last person has walked past her and is even with the person who was first 10 steps ahead of her she starts walking the lenght of the group and repeats the process, going 10 steps by the last person. This ensures frequent breaks and keeps the group moving. I hate it, by the way, but it is good from a group dynamics perspective.
As to MS's comments, i would say consider the source.
I just wish i had less ham and more sausage to give..lol
Mother's Finest
02-16-2008, 16:32
All I will say is this hike is not going to come off the way the poster described it. 32 miles in three days for an out of shape, non-exercising smoker (at age 45) ain't gonna happen.
She may grind it out the first day, but no way can you do that distance three days in a row.
Shorten your trip, or shorten your group.
peaced
mf
Oh, I guess it's back on topic. Sorry.
One more suggestion, If you are doing 10 miles a day, get her up early and started before the rest of the group. Slow hiking can be made up with more hours. And almost anyone healthy enough to walk will be able to do a mile an hour and a 10 hour day wont kill her.
Pringles
02-16-2008, 19:07
Your user information lists that you live fairly near the Smokies and Great South Fork. And you have said you like the person and she's fun, and I think you have some time before your hike. Why don't you suggest a shake-down backpack either in the Smokies or Great South Fork some weekend. That would give her some real experience with a pack and a real trail, but bailing out would be easy. If it went well, you'd know. Otherwise, you might inspire her to work to be better prepared. Plus, you and she'd have a great weekend. Beth
I'm a slow hiker, I can usually keep up on flat and downhill but when things go up I fall way behind! I don't know why. This summer I did a lot of hiking and was always the slowest, even though everyone did the same hikes every day.
Being the slowest person sucks! It's no fun to catch up to everyone waiting and they leave right away. They get to rest and I don't! ha ha that's nooo fun.
But slow doesn't mean you're a whiner who's gonna quit in five minutes! I wasn't. Shoot, even Bryson and Katz made it through the Smokeys. I do agree that 32 miles in 3 days is too much.
Jason of the Woods
02-16-2008, 23:15
Positive reinforcement is the best way to go and do not push her. She will get better as the hike goes.....Promise.
Positive reinforcement is the best way to go and do not push her. She will get better as the hike goes.....Promise.
Good advice there Jason! ;)
Jason of the Woods
02-16-2008, 23:20
I got it from one smart lady.;)
Good advice there Jason! ;)
Flush2wice
02-16-2008, 23:34
Give a person more credit than that. She knows she's going to be hiking in the Smokies. Unless she lives under a rock, she's got to know it is hard hiking. I was 70lbs overweight the first time I put a backpack on. I didn't know what to expect. Hit Neel's gap and started hiking. It was the hardest thing I'd done physically in 20 years. I loved it. To assume someone will want to bail and not be able to make it because they are overweight and inexperienced is wrong. Assume she will make it, and don't give bail out options to her. Know them yourself, but keep them to yourself unless asked for them. Again, you want to insult and hurt and overweight person? Assume they can't do it and plan for their failure, that should do the trick.
Do not give her a babysitter, however, approaching the professionally led hike situation, is a great idea. Set up a leader and a sweeper. The sweeper should be one that doesn't mind hiking slow. Also, the sweeper needs to stay off her heels. I went on one hike where the sweeper stayed less than two feet behind me the whole way. I felt like I was being rushed and felt the need to go faster than I felt comfortable with. Don't push her pace, or she may get injured simply by going faster than is comfortable for her.
Hope this helps. Being in the pressure of a group is what caused me to seek solo hiking.
Timcar86 is the one who said he has reservations about this persons ability. It's his friend and I trust he knows what he's talking about. I think it would be foolish not to have a Plan B in place. Make sure she has her car at the starting point so that if she bails she can go back to her car and go home without wrecking everyone else's hike.
Someone definitely needs to hike sweeper (babysitter). I would hate to be that person. 3 days through half the Smokies ain't no walk in the park. She needs to understand that if she can't handle it, she should never go so far into the hike that she can't turn around and go back.
I'm not bashing. I'm old, fat and balding. I'm just giving a straight up opinion.
LilRed,
She may NOT know how hard the Smokies are, or any other place. Witness the motley crew that begin the AT every year. They form fantasies (as I did) about how wonderful hiking is in the beautiful wooded mountains.
And then reality sets in.
Her ignorance, and denial regarding her physical conditioning make her a hazard to herself and to the group. If the group wants to take her on as a special, known objective hazard, then that is their choice. But all should know the potential outcomes of this decision.
Maybe the best will come of it, but to go into it with simply wishful thinking is to invite real problems.
What he said.
River Runner
02-17-2008, 02:29
It's one thing for someone who has experience to go on an ambitious trip knowing they will be slow, but it is another thing for someone who has never backpacked before to go on a trip as challenging as the one described.
As someone who has taught backpacking to both teen girls and adult women, and started backpacking in my 40's, it's totally unrealistic to expect an out of shape smoker in her 40's who is not experienced to make 10+ miles a day in mountainous terrain with a heavy pack. We've had many who were exhausted after seven miles of level rail trail. Or a half mile of a hill.
The bailout plan is essential. The rest of the group should also be aware of the possibility one member might not make it and decide ahead of time what their plan will be in the event this happens.
River Runner
02-17-2008, 02:31
Positive reinforcement is the best way to go and do not push her. She will get better as the hike goes.....Promise.
Or worse, as she grows more exhausted plus stiff and sore, and possibly blistered.
Jason of the Woods
02-17-2008, 02:41
OK if you want the worst case scenario.;)
Or worse, as she grows more exhausted plus stiff and sore, and possibly blistered.
River Runner
02-17-2008, 03:36
OK if you want the worst case scenario.;)
Close, but not quite. ;)
Worse case scenario is heart attack or stroke. :(
d'shadow
02-17-2008, 05:36
Reading all these posts are a reminder of why I hike alone or with a friend.
I like to hike my own hike, at my own speed, and enjoy myself. What is your criteria for being an acceptable person to include in a hike? What age? What level of condition? How do you define a slow hiker? Fast hiker? MPH?
Does a man have to be clean shaven? A woman good looking? What about educational level? does everyone have to practice p.c.?
As far as "being a burden," remember that anyone can suffer an injury on the trail, regardless of condition or experience. Honestly, if you really feel this lady is such a problem and you are her friend, sit her down and tell her.
It's one thing for someone who has experience to go on an ambitious trip knowing they will be slow, but it is another thing for someone who has never backpacked before to go on a trip as challenging as the one described.
As someone who has taught backpacking to both teen girls and adult women, and started backpacking in my 40's, it's totally unrealistic to expect an out of shape smoker in her 40's who is not experienced to make 10+ miles a day in mountainous terrain with a heavy pack. We've had many who were exhausted after seven miles of level rail trail. Or a half mile of a hill.
The bailout plan is essential. The rest of the group should also be aware of the possibility one member might not make it and decide ahead of time what their plan will be in the event this happens.
This says it in a nutshell.
Lest people think we're picking on her because she's female...not the case. The most pathetic scenes I've run into during section hikes were all men who were much less fit than their friends. In at least two instances the unfit men had failed to make the distance to camp and were spending the night miles behind their friends, and were planning to bail the next day and had no way to get in touch with the friends far ahead of them to tell them so. (I was asked to carry news.) The left-behind are unhappy, and the in-front are worried. It's just not a good trip for anyone.
She may totally surprise you. She may actually enjoy being out there and will do her best to show everyone of you that she has got what it takes............
If she does not opt out at the last minute because of your worry of whether she is fit enough or not she will probably be a more than willing participant....
Lone Wolf
02-17-2008, 09:41
A small group of us plan on hiking a short section of the AT in April (Clingman's Dome to Fontana Dam) and I know for sure at least on of our group is going to be horribly out of shape (smoker, overweight, no excersise, no training).
why is she going in the first place?
Bootstrap
02-17-2008, 09:43
You may not feel like you're a speed hiker but 32.4 miles (Clingman's to Fontana) is a lot of ground to cover (probably too much) in three days for a group with as much variance in ability level as yours.
Absolutely.
Schedule an easier trip to include her in.
Or if you all want to, schedule a series of hikes/short trips carrying backpacks so that you know, by that time, that she's ready.
But 10 miles a day, with some really steep sections (especially toward the beginning of that stretch) is too much for the vast majority of beginners. A trip like that is generally rated as difficult or strenuous for Sierra Club outings, and apparently also for other groups:
http://mdoutdoorclub.org/events/ratings.asp
http://www.edmontonoutdoorclub.com/events/difficultyratings.asp
http://www.atlantaoutdoorclub.com/events/difficultyratings.asp#backpack
I planned a 3 day hike in the Southern Balds last October for the guys in my family. We've done the Grand Canyon together, I knew we could make it, but I still kept it moderate so we would have fun, planning in optional extra sections. My dad had a harder time than I expected (OK, he's 72, and hadn't been backpacking for a year), so we wound up doing longer days and skipping the optional loops, but we had a great time.
I also agreed to schedule an easier camping / day hiking trip this spring for those who felt jealous and left out.
Jonathan
Bootstrap
02-17-2008, 09:49
She may surprise you.
Yes, she may. You can't always tell by looking at someone.
But this is February, April is 2 months away, and there's some time to schedule hikes and shorter trips so she can surprise him *before* the big, strenuous trip, and so she can do some serious training in between.
Or perhaps to schedule some easier trips this year and include her on a strenuous trip next year.
Jonathan
shades of blue
02-17-2008, 09:59
I was an overweight, smoking, out of shape, female hiker when I did the Georgia section in 2006.
I made it but it was slow. I couldn't have done 32 miles in 3 days. I did around 7-8 on average. I say take her but look at the mileage. It might be a bit much. I like hiking myself during the day and it's nice to know that someone will be at a designated spot at the end of the day and at lunch.
Now I am an overweight, non-smoking, semi out of shape, female hiker and alot stronger than some people like to think.
She may surprise you.
Mel, I think my wife Cadence and I met you in Georgia. Glad to hear that you've stopped smoking. Keep up the hiking, you'll make it.
.
Being the slowest person sucks! It's no fun to catch up to everyone waiting and they leave right away. They get to rest and I don't! ha ha that's nooo fun.
"They" are antsy to go, and you need a blow and look around. I have been on both sides of this, and there is no ha ha involved. For either.
Bare Bear
02-17-2008, 11:37
Clingmans to Fontana in three days?
How about rethinking this. IF the slowest hiker is going to go without working up to it then you have to go just 3-5 miles per day. Agree on where the shelter/camping spot will be, make sure everyone has proper maps then go. You risk the slow one being injured or dying on their own of course. Yes I said that.
Bare Bear
02-17-2008, 11:46
TIM86 Hey I just noticed your signature OLIVER SPRINGS, TN
I was born there and was just back a few months ago trying to find out where exactly...my parents address was C/O Phillips General Store Oliver Springs. Cool small world. Could you PM me a Historical Society phone or snail mail etc. that might help me trace my roots? Thanks.
NorthCountryWoods
02-17-2008, 12:05
The newbie needs a shakedown hike and the leader should go with her. Her strengths/weaknesses can determine what to do from there.
Or....
Know a family that had a remedy for the speediest hiker in their midst. They brought out the "equalizer"....a 7-8 pound piece of bronze that got inadvertently hidden in the offenders pack.
Patrickjd9
02-17-2008, 12:19
Clingmans to Fontana in three days? Did the Wesser to Fontana stretch last year in 3 days (we planned four but water was scarce) and was quite out of shape. Down the hills was tougher than up, because of my need to slow down to avoid injury. A mainly downhill hike may not make it easier, especially for a hiker over 40.
I'm 20+ pounds lighter now, and hoping for 15 more before the next Smokies hike in late April!!! I didn't like being the slowest in the group, but may still be because of some competitive conditioning going on:).
Feral Bill
02-17-2008, 13:30
Suggestion for the person hiking with the slower person. Bring a camera, flower book or whatever. You can do a slower pace while pursuing your interest, your friend has company, and no one gets frustrated. She may even need to wait for you a few times!
Like several others have said, take her on a 5-6 mile hike with some climbs several weeks before the GSMNP hike. She'll realize that she is not up to the task.
The Clingmans Dome to Fontana has quite a few climbs in the middle section. An unfit person could not manage more than a few miles per day.
my 2 cents
Egads
Flush2wice
02-17-2008, 14:29
Like several others have said, take her on a 5-6 mile hike with some climbs several weeks before the GSMNP hike. She'll realize that she is not up to the task.
The Clingmans Dome to Fontana has quite a few climbs in the middle section. An unfit person could not manage more than a few miles per day.
my 2 cents
Egads
Or take her on a 10 mile day hike with a full pack. Winding Stair Gap to Wayah Bald or Erwin to Spivey Gap or 19e to Carver's Gap. Note- these are all in the uphill direction.
I have just gotten back into the backpacking thing. I went back in November for the first time in over 15 years. I did an out and back with some friends 17 miles over two days. I have been working on my weight, the hike was tough but would have been tougher with the 15 extra pounds I had lost. The guys I went with were great let me set the pace. I had been working out prior to and was still shocked how hard it was. I agree with the suggestion for a "shakedown" hike, do about half the distance over the same period. If she wants to do more, she knows what she has to do or she will decide its not for her. If she really is a friend she will appreciate the effort for her to try things out before you hit this particular hike. No easy answers, good luck
boy, I sure am glad I wasn't around some of you when I started hiking. Ya'll would have convinced me I couldn't do it. My first day was Neel's to the first shelter north, 10 miles. I did 8 to 10 miles a day through the Smokies, at 70 lbs overweight.
If you want her to come along, then why not make it four days? If you don't have four days, then why not choose an easier hike? If you don't want to do that, then just tell her she can't come. Sounds like you'd have a better time with less worrying.
Honestly, it sounds to me like you really don't want her to go. Did you invite her or did she invite herself? If the former, then suck it up and do whatever needs to be done to make her hike more enjoyable, like stretching it a day longer. If it was the latter, than simply tell her you thought it over and you are too concerned about her health to let her do something so strenuous. Suggest you do another hike together at a later time.
If you want her to come along, then why not make it four days? If you don't have four days, then why not choose an easier hike? If you don't want to do that, then just tell her she can't come. I think that pretty much covers everything.
HikerRanky
02-18-2008, 01:13
boy, I sure am glad I wasn't around some of you when I started hiking. Ya'll would have convinced me I couldn't do it. My first day was Neel's to the first shelter north, 10 miles. I did 8 to 10 miles a day through the Smokies, at 70 lbs overweight.
If you want her to come along, then why not make it four days? If you don't have four days, then why not choose an easier hike? If you don't want to do that, then just tell her she can't come. Sounds like you'd have a better time with less worrying.
Honestly, it sounds to me like you really don't want her to go. Did you invite her or did she invite herself? If the former, then suck it up and do whatever needs to be done to make her hike more enjoyable, like stretching it a day longer. If it was the latter, than simply tell her you thought it over and you are too concerned about her health to let her do something so strenuous. Suggest you do another hike together at a later time.
Very well put LilRed! And as the taildragger on Saturday at Radnor, I'm glad that nobody told me that I couldn't come along.... I showed what I need to work on....
To the OP: I think you have a lot of good and sound advice in this thread....
Randy
River Runner
02-18-2008, 04:13
boy, I sure am glad I wasn't around some of you when I started hiking. Ya'll would have convinced me I couldn't do it. My first day was Neel's to the first shelter north, 10 miles. I did 8 to 10 miles a day through the Smokies, at 70 lbs overweight.
Lil Red,
I think we are usually encouraging to people here, but also realistic. In the case of an individual hiker, we know they will be able to go at their own pace and devise their own bail out plan. Also, if it were a different section of trail it would be different. There is not a lot of bail out options around the Smokies like there are around Neel's Gap. And she is hiking with other people who are probably using their vacation time to plan a trip they want to do, so problems she might have will also adversely affect others.
You did well, gal. I think you might be a little exceptional. Was that your first backpacking experience? Had you trained any?
River Runner
Marta's First Theorem of Hiking Partnership:
Your friends may not be good hiking partners.
Second Theorem:
Your best hiking partners may not be your friends.
StarLyte
02-18-2008, 08:20
I have been thru this so many times I can't count.
Family doesn't ask to hike anymore, thank goodness and my friends are all here on WB.
All you can do is enjoy your hike, don't worry about everything, and let the others hike their own hike too.
You'll still be friends afterwards if you allow them to go at their own pace. They are not conditioned, and will want to see everything on the Trail, and it can't be helped - imagine.
I prefer to hike alone. I like to absorb the earth and animals rather than people.
I spent the weekend hiking with a couple on the Connecticut AT. They both smoked me on the uphills. But I was able to catch up just fine once we hit flat/downhill walks. If I had tried to keep their pace, id of needed quite a few "I need to take off my pack breaks". I slowed to my own pace and was able to just keep going.
I smoke, drink on occasion and am generally not in the best of shape. But I was fine to hike all day with a 40 lb pack on.
Lil Red,
I think we are usually encouraging to people here, but also realistic. In the case of an individual hiker, we know they will be able to go at their own pace and devise their own bail out plan. Also, if it were a different section of trail it would be different. There is not a lot of bail out options around the Smokies like there are around Neel's Gap. And she is hiking with other people who are probably using their vacation time to plan a trip they want to do, so problems she might have will also adversely affect others.
You did well, gal. I think you might be a little exceptional. Was that your first backpacking experience? Had you trained any?
River Runner
It was my first backpacking experience, and no, I didn't train at all. I never do. I get up off the couch and hike.
I hope you didn't see that as bragging cause it's not. I was just using myself as an example to what overweight people are capable of.
What matters more is the type of character of the person. Is she a whiney, complaining person that looks to others for help with life or is she a gritty, determined person who makes her own way. I think that will tell you more about her ability to cope with the trail than her weight does.
Since she is hiking with a group, let her know that she has to keep up, even if it means hiking after dark to get to the designated shelter. Can she cope with that idea?
There are so many unknowns about this particular situation. You sure she doesn't have a crush on one of the members and sees some 'alone' time in the woods with them??? ;)
Blessed indeed is the person whose hiking partner is a friend.
Egads
Marta's First Theorem of Hiking Partnership:
Your friends may not be good hiking partners.
Second Theorem:
Your best hiking partners may not be your friends.
River Runner
02-18-2008, 23:42
It was my first backpacking experience, and no, I didn't train at all. I never do. I get up off the couch and hike.
I hope you didn't see that as bragging cause it's not. I was just using myself as an example to what overweight people are capable of.
What matters more is the type of character of the person. Is she a whiney, complaining person that looks to others for help with life or is she a gritty, determined person who makes her own way. I think that will tell you more about her ability to cope with the trail than her weight does.
Since she is hiking with a group, let her know that she has to keep up, even if it means hiking after dark to get to the designated shelter. Can she cope with that idea?
There are so many unknowns about this particular situation. You sure she doesn't have a crush on one of the members and sees some 'alone' time in the woods with them??? ;)
No I didn't think you were bragging, and you are right, some highly motivated individuals could do it. It's just hard to tell sometimes who has the right motivation. And given the combination of age, weight, physical condition, and smoking there definitely could be health complications. It's possible to be overweight and physically active (look at Sumo wrestlers!) (and me!) and that is a better case than overweight and inactive.
And you are right, there are many unknowns, because we can never know the persons inner strength. Still, a leader has to play it smart and have a plan just in case I think.
I've been on the AT too many times when things went wrong, and plans had to be changed. It can happen even with young, fit, super hikers!
timcar86
02-26-2008, 14:26
Update!
We went for a short pre-hike yesterday. A short 5 miler with full packs. I'm happy to say we made it in less than 2 hours. Unfortunately the member of our group who needed to train the most was not there. She gave us some sort of excuse, can't remember what it was but the important thing was she wasn't there. I'm starting to feel very uncomfortable about the whole situation. We're planning another, more difficult hike next Thursday.
Appalachian Tater
02-26-2008, 14:28
Update!
We went for a short pre-hike yesterday. A short 5 miler with full packs. I'm happy to say we made it in less than 2 hours. Unfortunately the member of our group who needed to train the most was not there. She gave us some sort of excuse, can't remember what it was but the important thing was she wasn't there. I'm starting to feel very uncomfortable about the whole situation. We're planning another, more difficult hike next Thursday.
Sounds like she's not going to show up Thursday, either.
Update!
We went for a short pre-hike yesterday. A short 5 miler with full packs. I'm happy to say we made it in less than 2 hours. Unfortunately the member of our group who needed to train the most was not there. She gave us some sort of excuse, can't remember what it was but the important thing was she wasn't there. I'm starting to feel very uncomfortable about the whole situation. We're planning another, more difficult hike next Thursday.
Sounds like you read the situation pretty accurately. Good luck!