View Full Version : Two more hikers lost in Crawford Notch
The Old Fhart
02-18-2008, 19:04
3pm 2-18-08 Two more hikers attempting a Presidential Traverse did not show up as scheduled. See story (http://www.wmur.com/news/15334219/detail.html).
There certainly has been a rash of these incidents this winter.
I hope these guys make it out safely. Fortunately, the temperature has been unseasonably mild. High temp in Gorham reached into the 50s, today. Of course, warm, moist air flowing over ice and snow results in dense fog. Visibility must be terrible.
I don't know the history of Baxter... is this why it get's closed from mid october till June?
Lone Wolf
02-18-2008, 19:51
I don't know the history of Baxter... is this why it get's closed from mid october till June?
baxter is never closed. just the campgrounds are closed
baxter is never closed. just the campgrounds are closed
Oh, I thought it was. Why is it so vital to get to baxter by october then on a NOBO?
Lone Wolf
02-18-2008, 19:57
Oh, I thought it was. Why is it so vital to get to baxter by october then on a NOBO?
cuz after 15 october you're not supposed to camp overnight in the park which would mean you'd have to put in a seriously long-ass day of hiking to get in the park, up the mountain, then down and out of the park. some of us know how to get around such bs
Plus it can be a really mean place when it wants to be.
Now back to the White Mtns. I bet it was close to "sit down and wait" up there today.
Plus it can be a really mean place when it wants to be.
Now back to the White Mtns. I bet it was close to "sit down and wait" up there today.
Right. A Presi-traverse in freezing rain and zero-visibility is not my idea of fun. The article says these guys were experienced. If they're not holed up at Edmunds Col, they probably headed below treeline. There are many bail-out points in the Presidential Range--another good reason to carry a map.
Lone Wolf
02-18-2008, 20:17
what does "experience" mean anyway?
Blissful
02-18-2008, 20:18
what does "experience" mean anyway?
From what I've seen with a lot of these scenerios, not much.
Wonder if anyone can really "be ready" for anything. Like the hikers killed on Mt Hood and other places.
Good point, LW. I suppose whoever reported these guys overdue characterized these two as experienced hikers. The rescuers certainly wouldn't know.
The Old Fhart
02-18-2008, 22:54
Roland-"If they're not holed up at Edmunds Col, they probably headed below treeline."Edmunds Col is one of the nastiest places to be in winter. The wind just whips right thru there.
Experienced at risking their lives by climbing the whites in the winter.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
02-18-2008, 23:18
Prayers for their safety and for those who love them to be comforted. :(
Prayers for their safety and for those who love them to be comforted. :(
I second that, Dino....
Prayers for their safety and for those who love them to be comforted. :(
I second that, Dino....
I would venture to say everyone on WB does too. I know I am deeply troubled when this happens. Yet, I wonder why people take such high risks in the winter. To prove they can beat the mountain weather in the winter, when clearly the mountain wins several times every year? Let's pray for good news and hope they learn a valuable lesson.
River Runner
02-18-2008, 23:33
Sad this is happening yet again. Prayers for a good outcome.
what does "experience" mean anyway?"Experienced" means you survived your previous mistakes.
double d
02-18-2008, 23:55
Crawford Notch is no place to be in February, with that said, I hope for the best for the lost hikers. Hopefully, they have the skills to take care of themselves and arrive safetly to the nearest warm hotel.
Experienced hikers is different from experienced Wintertime Presidential Traverse hikers.:-? I pray for their safe return.
Excerpt from: http://www.mountwashington.org/about/visitor/surviving.php
The vast majority of the quarter million people who visit the summit each year experience no problems whatsoever. Yet each year several "close calls" accentuate the dangers of the mountain. 135 fatalities have occurred on and around Mount Washington since 1849, many of them involving ill-prepared hikers, skiers and climbers. There is no room for poor judgement and carelessness in this unforgiving mountain environment.
I don't know the history of Baxter... is this why it get's closed from mid october till June?
Baxter has been open all winter. Scores of people have skiied, snowshoed, and camped in the park if this is anything like most winters.
There rarely have been accidents because hikers are required to apply for permission and given a mandatory list of required gear. In my experience the list isn't checked particularly diligently, but the mere fact that you have to apply ensures that most are properly equipped.
Deaths are rare and most are truly accidents. Things like rock falls and such.
The park closes for camping on October 15, but reopens in December for the winter season.
I've spent at least 50 nights in the park during the months of January, February and early March, since 1970. I've been on the tableland a half dozen times -- and on the summit once. So far I've always known when to turn back.
Weary
mweinstone
02-19-2008, 00:31
heres what i belive happened. the two hikers stayed out an extra night in a bolt hole cause the wind was to much . possibly the have lost gear or each other. im guessing . i think they will be down by morning.
Have none of these people ever heard of GPS's?
Every year people get lost in whiteouts and fog and ****ty conditions and have to hunker down on freezing, wind-blown ridgetops because they can't see 20 feet and have no idea where they are. Is your life worth 500 bucks for a mapping GPS? If you don't carry gear to survive an unplanned or emergency night in hte woods, at least carry the piece of gear that will point the way out.
If you don't like electronics on the trail, fine. Bring your maps, bring your compasses, but in the bottom of your pack have your GPS and a few extra batteries when you hike the mtns of MH and ME in the winter. You never know when dense fog or blowing snow might hit. Get it before you go. Those little GPS buttons are hard to use after your fingers are amputated due to frostbite.
dessertrat
02-19-2008, 00:34
I would never go up into the Whites in winter without a bivy and a serious sleeping bag-- I mean something that would keep me alive if I had to sit for two days inside it with the wind blowing hard outside.
mweinstone
02-19-2008, 00:38
gps cant find your partner, help you down with a broken bone or replace a blown away peice of gear. it cant stop high fever or vomiting or help a burn. it wont call anyone to help you and it wont turn itself on and wake you up after a fall. it cant treat shock and it dosnt know cpr or mouth to mouth resussitation.
it can however recalculate like a sumnobitz.
mweinstone
02-19-2008, 00:40
i dont go to bed without all my gear at the foot of my bed. houses? dont trust em. techtonic plates? they fail all the time. asteroid free zones? lies. a loaded pack within reach? priceless.add jesus and walk.
wrongway_08
02-19-2008, 01:10
I wonder why people take such high risks in the winter. To prove they can beat the mountain weather in the winter, when clearly the mountain wins several times every year? Let's pray for good news and hope they learn a valuable lesson.
Its a rush, just like any sport someones into. I love winter hiking, little more rugged, challenge and sometimes scary. If you look at how many people go out and enjoy this part of our sport, the lost and death rate really is not that high. Doesnt mean its not sad or heartbreaking when it happens but not that high of a rate when all things considered.
I get a rush off of pushing myself one step further, one day it'll catch up to me - just like it will to anyone who pushes themselves/limits hard.
Hope to hear some good news soon.
Its a rush, just like any sport someones into. I love winter hiking, little more rugged, challenge and sometimes scary. If you look at how many people go out and enjoy this part of our sport, the lost and death rate really is not that high. Doesnt mean its not sad or heartbreaking when it happens but not that high of a rate when all things considered.
I get a rush off of pushing myself one step further, one day it'll catch up to me - just like it will to anyone who pushes themselves/limits hard.
Hope to hear some good news soon.
Winter hiking is one thing. Winter hiking on scary peaks known to have taken a toll is another. Hike when and where you wish though. Hopefully, you will never need to be rescued and a rescuer won't give his life in an attempt to save yours. The Mt. Washington obs. link I posted earlier suggests that "most" who died were not prepared. Be prepared to turn back too. You can always try another time. Be safe.
First thought, "experience" balances proper gear vs weight. February is no time to
"Go Lite".
southpaw95
02-19-2008, 07:11
Darwin.
Visibility bad, temps good. Providing they didn't slide off the mountain somewhere, they should come out today.(good visibility today)
I lived in Bartlett one winter long time ago just down the road from Crawford Notch and AT.
Did some hiking in the area that winter.....one day headed up to Jackson, started snowing heavy about an hour in to the trip, turned back due to visibility constraints.
After about a half hour my tracks were completely covered with fresh snow and trail was difficult to follow:eek:, will never forget it! I've had no problem turning back since.;)
I was up across from Pinkham Notch notch this weekend doing an overnight at Carter Notch Hut. Saturday night was below zero and Sunday afternoon/evening they were calling for a mix of sleet/snow. It must have been pretty bad because after arriving back home Sunday I heard they closed interstate 93 through most of the whites because of the road conditions.
Providing they didn't slide off the mountain somewhere, they should come out today.(good visibility today)
Both men found (http://www.wmur.com/news/15341241/detail.html)and are OK
Wonder if the men were really in trouble, or of one of the mom's just freaked out?
They had a third who waited until after the agreed pick-up time who alerted the authorities.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
02-19-2008, 12:35
Both men found (http://www.wmur.com/news/15341241/detail.html)and are OK::: Dino seen saying prayer of thanks :::
warraghiyagey
02-19-2008, 13:26
Both men found (http://www.wmur.com/news/15341241/detail.html)and are OK
Thanks Woodsy. Always the bearer of good words.:sun
I did 2 or 3 -- sometimes more -- multi-day backpacking trips every winter for 35 years. I occasionally worried about snowslides, but otherwise rarely sensed any danger. In many ways winter is easier than summer. All the rocks and roots have disappeared. Just one long, smooth incline plane.
Winter is the only time the trails are truly wild. I love it. And yes, I've slowed down a bit. I haven't given up winter backpacking, but it has gotten to be a long break since the last one.
Weary
Gotta hand it to NH SAR crews and National Guard chopper pilots and crews etc.
5 guys have been plucked off NH mountains in recent days, some of these evacs were extremely dangerous for all involved, my hat goes off to these civil servants.
Once again the reason to know how to use a map and compass and where they when a life saver to know how to use a map and compass. soma many folks think a cell phone or gps is gone to help any type tech can fail batterys go dead no signal and the such. Hope their safe.
eric_plano
02-19-2008, 14:54
I'm really questioning this quote from the article:
"Traveling was tough," Obert said. "With a pack in excess of 250 pounds and with snowshoes going through 5-foot snow -- it was rigorous."
250 lbs...seriously??!?!
5 ft of snow?!?!
Anyone here ever carry a 250lb pack? :)
Mad Hatter 08
02-19-2008, 14:56
they probably had a sled if it really was that much weight I could have been a typo though.
Mad Hatter 08
02-19-2008, 14:58
Have none of these people ever heard of GPS's?
Every year people get lost in whiteouts and fog and ****ty conditions and have to hunker down on freezing, wind-blown ridgetops because they can't see 20 feet and have no idea where they are. Is your life worth 500 bucks for a mapping GPS? If you don't carry gear to survive an unplanned or emergency night in hte woods, at least carry the piece of gear that will point the way out.
If you don't like electronics on the trail, fine. Bring your maps, bring your compasses, but in the bottom of your pack have your GPS and a few extra batteries when you hike the mtns of MH and ME in the winter. You never know when dense fog or blowing snow might hit. Get it before you go. Those little GPS buttons are hard to use after your fingers are amputated due to frostbite.
Frosty these guys had GPS and a map and a compass.
Darwin again
02-19-2008, 14:59
baxter is never closed. just the campgrounds are closed
It is effectively closed to most people.
I'm really questioning this quote from the article:
"Traveling was tough," Obert said. "With a pack in excess of 250 pounds and with snowshoes going through 5-foot snow -- it was rigorous."
250 lbs...seriously??!?!
5 ft of snow?!?!
Anyone here ever carry a 250lb pack? :)
No sure about the weight of the packs..However, 5 ft of snow in the Whites up here is nothing unusual at all....
Jim Adams
02-19-2008, 15:39
they probably had a sled if it really was that much weight I could have been a typo though.
...well, I guess if you put shoulder straps on my stomach it would look like a 250lb. pack.:D
Anyone here ever carry a 250lb pack? :)
Me, no. Nothing close. Heaviest load was probably a canoe, maybe 90lbs.
The voyageur pièce was 40kg (~90 lbs). The standard man load on any length portage was 2 pièces, or 80kg (~180 lbs). To show off, some would add a third pièce on top for 120kg ( ~270 lbs). Voyageurs often suffered from back ailments, hernias and, if they lived long enough, arthritis. They traveled in summer, but the portages were often poor and steep.
rlharris
02-19-2008, 18:47
Men have been found and are safe. Details at www.unionleader.com (newspaper home page) or http://unionleader.com/article.aspx?headline=Two+lost+hikers+found&articleId=317217dd-1eb3-4928-9155-41afd6372313 (detailed story)
mweinstone
02-19-2008, 19:14
lack of exsperience. poor equiptment. exsposure. the swollen waters would have been forseen by any moderatly well skilled novice. these guys suck for causeing all the searchers risk. advise. better clothing. better metoralogical skills . and spelling for me.